welcome to "crossfire." i'm newt gingrich on the right. >> i'm van jones on the left. in the crossfire tonight, we have two leaders in the fight and against legalizing pot. now, this week, thousands of people in colorado stood in line to buy legal pot. here's where i stand. i hate drug use and drug abuse. i've seen the harm it's done to good people and families and neighborhoods. but i hate the drug war even more. it wastes money texas ruins lives. the numbers now show it unfairly targets people of color and the poor. this is one case where the solution is actually worse than the disease itself form a this point i support decriminalization, but i want to regulate it, tax it and discourage its used. i don't want my kids or yours using drugs. i just don't want any of them

going to prison if they do. >> i think we can agree that the war on drugs does not work, but we also know from the 1890s that totally unregulated use of drugs leads to devastating results, which is where part of the food and drug act came from. i think tonight's discussion will be interesting. two terrific guests tonight. i must say personal friend, patrick kennedy, an advocate for brain research, and alan st. pierre, the executive of normal, the national organization for reform of marijuana laws. patrick, you've been up with the country about t. you've also become a real leader in brain research, have done amazing work at brown university and elsewhere. all these people standing in line in colorado are doing something wrong and dangerous, to your perspective.

could be explain? >> well, it is helpful to know where i'm coming from. i'm a recovering drug adecrease and alcoholic. it wasn't always that way. i have a chronic illness i have to fight every single day. i also had the honor for working for coverage for -- i was proud like that hair club for men ad that you saw a generation ago, noble was i the author, but i was also a consumer of benefits known as addiction benefits and mental health benefits. so i also have mental illness, and i just want to say that, because it forms my thinking on this. i also am now a father of three until under 5.

it's not trite when i say the biggest concern i have in this whole move toward legalization is the impact on our country people. nonare our adolescents that will come will bring, and of course higher use rates among young people. it also will be more accessible because of legalization. i'm concerned about the unintended consequences like we've seen yesterday, a 2-year-old eaten an edible. it means that there are now foodstuffs made with thc content. that is troubling. so my view is, we all to have this debate, and i really appreciate van and mr. speaker, you taking us and have been this opportunity to talk about it, because it's one in a hasn't happened frankly. i think colorado and washington

state got into this without this debate really taking place. >> well, i mean, what's wrong with what he just said? he described something that seems bad. do you disagree? >> i completely agree, and thank you for being so open. i come from a family who treats addicti addiction specialties. people who use marijuana, adults in hair home notably, they're not a concern to society, i would argue. now, if you abuse marijuana as a youth, or you drink and drive, you come to work impaired, of course, mores and values in the united states wouldn't allow for such. there's not -- >> except for the most important issue is whether or not -- >> whether it should be legal or not. ultimately the position that patrick's group has adopted is effectively at least decriminalization. you should not be arrested and put in jail because you have a

small amount of marijuana. is that fair to say? >> it's fair to say. i like van, think the war on drugs is an abomination, what it's done to our country, the cost to the taxpayers, i like the work you're doing, mr. speaker on the right on crime. we incares rate too many people. the challenge is what is our solutions? i don't believe believe that opening up this notion that this is harmless by legalizing is the right message to sent. >> here's what's so interesting to me. the country is moving away from your point of view dramatically. 1993, that's thee i graduated from law school. 25% of the people said le's legalize this stuff. now 58%, so what is happening that the country is mopping after from your -- do you think the american people are wrong on

this? >> i think, van, there's a disconnect. as a political guy considerable december i don't argue with you on that. marijuana is not good for the brain, so now we have to argue, what are the proper policy solutions that are going to reduce incidents? so we have an agreement. if older people want to use it, that's not my worry. my worry is kids. but there are implications. when you alloy older people with -- there are tradeoffs. by giving that 22-year-old the right to smoke, there are consequences to that. the consequences are there's going to be greater availability, greater access and

the consequences is there will be greater use rates. that's beyond any debate whatsoever. so if you are okay with that, then let's go forward. >> mr. speaker, are you okay with that? >> what he said at the end. allen, one of the questions i would ask, sherlock holmes actually uses drugs. all of a sudden we reached a moment where they had a very dramatic change in attitude. are there any -- i realize you spent your lifetime working on this, i'm putting you on the spot. are there any circumstances where there could be an outcome in places like coalle that would lead you to say, you know, maybe this wasn't the right policy? what would the benchmark be of the going so far you would want

to rethink it? >> because this is described rightly as an experiment. these two states have been given the ability to do this. if we saw a dramatic increase, that they were having access to potent products. we have these concerns regarding almost any product that children could have access to. the other concern to me -- >> i appreciate that, allen. frankly, i don't think a lot of public knows about this candy stuff or the vending machines that we ran into when we had tobacco products. >> are you in favor of vending machines for these edibles? >> not for recreational use. however, i want to make an

over-the-counter stock that i do not own here. this med-box, a company out of los angeles, where it's a biometric machine, where you have to use your own thumbprint, tagged to your own social security number and bank account, and believe it or not, you can get marijuana out of it. >> don't tell the nsa that. >> i know. i can envision those being at the front of a lot of nursing homes. >> well, what you just hit is interesting. because you're talking about the commercialization of this product. that's really my biggest beef. if are not to ask me, it's the for-profit motivation. i appreciate the speaker's a free market guy, we find ourselves on the opposite side of a lot of issues, but i would think it's not a free market issue, where the real results were to hook kids. we saw it with joe camel. frankly the alcohol industry, which frankly i had the same

feelings towards as i do this budding -- no pun intended -- marijuana industry, is they're targeting kids, you know, flavored alcohol drinks, you know, joe camel u let me -- today we're talking about legalizing marijuana in colorado. when we come back, i want to ask allen if we should legalize much more dangerous drugs, like cocaine, heroin, and methamphetamine. stay with us. welcome back. how is everything?

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welcome back. in the "crossfire" tonight, allen st. pierre and patrick kennedy. this week colorado became the first state in the nation to legalize marijuana. thousands of people lined up to buy it. what about methamphetamine? cocaine? heroin? understanding that legalizing marijuana could be a watershed

moment, all -- we could go back to the 1890s when all sorts of dangerous drugs were legal and the use was widespread and out of control. allen, i want to ask you, from your perspective -- not your organization's perspective, but from your personal perspective, what would do you with heroin, cocaine? >> i'm a big supporter of harm reduction, the notion if you use or sell or produce the so-called hard drugs, if you interface with police, you should have an option for treatment, jail, prison should not be the first -- >> the so-called hard drugs? what do you mean? meth is not is so-called hard drugs. >> in my world of drug consumers, there's a -- for example, people will take umbrage with the question being asked that somehow or another there's a division with marijuana and all these other drugs, which i logically make myself and here's one reason

cultur culturally. there's magazines, the first amendment, we've never seen a heroin magazine or cocaine magazine. i don't think the culture supports those hard drugs being legalized anytime soon, but i don't think people should be arrested and jailed because they use them. >> what about people, such as the cartel that routinely kills people. >> violence always warrants the most severe punishments. >> there's an interesting challenge, like in the '20s, you're held harmless, because it's a small amount, but the person who got it to you, which is making huge amounts -- >> much to the chagrin of some, there would be some corporations and others involved, but i will argue that's better than the 76 years of prohibition that we've had i realize what would be great if like the tobago -- for every amount of dollar head for advertising, they had to fund a

public health campaign. >> the taxation in colorado and washington does fund like anti-marijuana education. >> but i'm making a distinction between the alcohol talks and the -- that's negligible in terms of cover the true costs of impact of alcohol. tobago, same thing, but it was that requirement, when they used to go on the air, marlboro man, they had to put equality time for public health, remember those old ads for the person who don't breathe anore.had when t t do that? show w over, they couldn't advertise anymore. i have a real problem with this thinking we're going to pay for the problems that marijuana creates suchly by this tax. >> i think dennis ocren does an excellent job of reviewing prohibition, you don't pay on a 1:1 way -- but that's not an argument to keep the prohibition going.

there's all kinds of reasons why we should end the prohibition. >> let me throw a reason at you. it's hard to talk about drugs in american without race and the race issue and the disproportionate impact it's had. i want. basically african-americans, white folks use them at about the same rate, but when you look at the arrest rate, it's astronomically higher for african-americans. doesn't that bother you? >> it sure does. >> if you continue to insist as we are, relying on criminalization, how do you deal with these kinds of numbers? >> first of all, that criminal justice system is dysfunctional, insofar as it needs a major correction, and if we think we're going to solve it just on the drugs issue, african-americans, other minorities are sentenced to more time, no matter what the crime is, so let's make -- just to division this being an issue

that is the panacea for all injustice. >> let me throw something at you. i'm concerned about the minority community that will be targeted, because you look at the alcohol industry? i tell you what, more choate distributors are in minority neighborhoods by a factor of ten. i can't even begin to tell you the latest numbers. you know what l.a. looks like, forget about it. there isn't an equal. so they have -- it is insidious, is my -- >> so you're concerned the for-profit marijuana corporations will start preying on these communities. that's the concern i have, but taupe you're talking about en -- wouldn't you real have the 7 billion do something else? >> listen, we pay fines all the time for thingz against the law.

people all to pay fines, if they do something wrong, they all to go to jail, but frankly that we'll be selling the stuff at cvs and kroger's, walgreen's should frighten all of us. >> in your or my lifetime tobago use has been cut in half. we didn't destabilize the border. we didn't have a 9:1 ratio, where you and i grew up in massachusetts, 13:1. >> it took a long time. >> but we can achieve the stated goal without using the brutal criminal justice system. >> you mentioned pee tests. with the questions are coming. they're coming. should company be allowed to test people before they hire them? >> the law will remain the same. it was not impacted. people will try to litigate from our side.

claiming an alcohol user, we're getting those questions now from people who have used marijuana legally on wednesday and thursday going back to their jobs in kansas or wyoming. tested positive for it. so this is truly law professor heaven here we're getting into. >> this is serious stuff. i want to know that the pilot walking, so drug testing get you there. but most importantly, before people get on those plains, they should be using computer testing which we already have. >> so do you support the right for example, trucking company to test truck -- >> absolutely. a social contract when you work for an employer. if they don't want to you use drugs, then you shouldn't. >> you both agreed that place most likely to be using is the poorest neighborhoods which means they get told, you get to buy drugs but by the way you probably won't get a job. a very big problem in poor

neighborhoods. >> no doubt tting people, this is happening with tobacco too. we have people being tested for tobacco even though it is perfectly legal. so we made this bed. we might have to live in it regarding drug testing. >> i think, look. i am on your side only because i can see no other way out of this, i am concerned that we are not doing enough to really make sure that if we do it your way, i haven't heard you talking about the need to stigma size this thing. i haven't heard you talking about the need to make sure that we don't have people addicted. and i'm concerned there will be people in a victory lap. >> giving never opportunity to talk about it. no doubt talking about stigmatizing. there might be direct person to person advertising through internet or through your phone. >> we'll talk about it when we get back. next the final question for both our guests. they're some doozies and we want

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we are back with allen st. pierre and patrick kennedy. now it is time for the final question. first you, patrick. we all know that making drug use illegal doesn't stop people from using drugs. that you know from your own

personal life. we may be in a world soon where all we have is moral legislation without the law. is there anything that anybody could have told you that would have stopped you from using drugs? >> i became an addict because i started as a teenager and i had the genetic predisposition to become an ad iktd because it ran in my family. i worry about that and it is the law. i think we do certain things because they protect society at large. and i don't want someone who thinks it is no big deal on light up, driving down the highway. i've got three kids. we were nearly run over going through new york last week. the fact of the matter is this isn't just about me concerned about people with addiction like myself. addicted. it is also about me being a father worried about my three children and someone else out there on the road. >> what is the best argument to use? for someone thinking this might be a good road to go down.

best argument. >> it stunts i.q. development. the old marijuana that i started with is nothing like it is today. and thank god. because i would be working with a few less i.q. points right now if i was smoking the stuff that's out there today. >> let me ask you to switch to a totally negative position for a second. i find the most frightening of all the hard drugs, methamphetamine. both because it can be made locally and it seems to have a stunningly powerful addiction. and then just a devastating effect on the person who becomes addicted. how would you design a program to minimize the possibility that anybody would ever become a meth addict? >> largely by making sure they have options for drugs if they're going to seek to alter their state. if we're going to action fg. we can't stop it. if they have access to drugs with minimal consequences. >> i want to thank you both for

being here. a good conversation. go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our fireback question. should marijuana be legal nationwide? right now, 84% of you say yes. 16% say no. we're not doing very well. the biggest response of any fireback question we've ever done. so i want to thank you for that. the debate will continue online at cnn.com/cross fire. >> join us monday for another edition of "crossfire." erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. next, heavy snow and cold temperatures affecting much of the country. plus new details about the crash that killed paul walker. his autopsy just released. and the police chief of one of the most violent 60s said he has a solution to reduce crime. more guns.