and andrew sullivan, founder of the dish. and mikayla angela davis, jeff a toobin and davis gergen. and i want to start out with chris christie, the republican favorite for president, according to the earliest polling. e-mail and text messages linking his top aides to what is a bizarre case of political

payback. closing lanes on the george washington bridge, the busiest bridge in the world, that's a look at the bridge there. back in september, they closed some lanes, plunging parts of manhattan and ft. lee, new jersey into chaos. traffic backed up, school buses ran late, ambulances were delayed. all allegedly because ft. lee's mayor, a democrat, refused to join other democrats endorsing chris christie. today, we got evidence there was payback, e-mails implicating top christie aides. "time for some traffic problems in ft. lee," she writes. the reply, got it.

late today, chris christie writes -- the statement went on to stay, this behavior is not representative of me or my administration in any way, and people will be held responsible for their actions. plenty to talk about with the panel. andrew, does this surprise you? do you believe christie didn't know about this? >> i hope he's telling the truth. because if he wasn't and he was involved in this in some way, it's over. my own feeling is that this is one of those rare moments when this script reads like real life. these e-mailing and texts, so contemptuous of ordinary peel. just playing this game of politics. and look, keeping people in traffic is one of the worst things you can do to human beings. i think it's terrible for him. it's terrible because it makes

him look petty and vindictive and we don't want a president like that. >> even if he didn't know about it, it does sound as if everybody around him believes this is something he would approve of and like and if that's the case, that doesn't reflect well. >> totally agree with that. i hesitate to bring up richard nixon. i worked for richard nixon, and we'll never know whether he ordered watergate or not. but the people carrying out thought he wanted them to do it. people take their cues off the leader. and if certain things are permissible or encouraged and they do them, it's the leader's responsibility. that's the problem that chris christie has now. >> i can't wait to tell the big guy that we did this. it's a kind of trivial and cynical and callous tone to it. it's a mentality in that office.

>> and you believe that if somebody died, you believe it takes to another level. >> i think if somebody died or had some serious injury as a result of not being able to get proper medical attention swiftly, i think it could be curtains for him. this is a big deal in politics. it was only a couple weeks ago that chris christie went ahead for the first time of hillary clinton in a sweepstakes for 2016. we're a long way away, but that makes a difference in republican politics. when somebody gets ahead, republicans tend to turn to that person as the heir apparent. all bets are off tonight. >> one of the mistakes we make in politics is we jump to conclusions and say it's all over for chris christie. it's all over for chris christie. this is it. >> even if he didn't know about it? >> done, over. >> really?

>> absolutely. this is not a complicated scandal. this is not something that it takes a law degree, it takes an accounting degree to understand. what is the explanation here? that my subordinates -- by the way, we haven't heard the end of the factual investigation here. let's hear miss kelly under both. she's obviously thrown her under the bus now. let's hear what she has to say. i mean, this is devastating. forget about it. >> do you think there will be a criminal investigation? >> i don't see this as criminal. the legislature is going to call them in. that's how these e-mails came out, they're subpoenaing stuff. if you lie under the oath, that can be a crime. so we have only begun to learn -- >> these are high officials. >> yeah, it's a top aide. chris christie doesn't appear as someone that doesn't know what people are doing. he seems quite controlling and the timing is off, and as you said, it just doesn't seem presidential at all, to have

your top aide kind of toss it off to them. this is my administration, i take full responsibility. >> i just want to play what the mayor of ft. lee said to wolf today. let's listen. >> wouldn't you expect him to start making phone calls to at least apologize, even if he had nothing to do with it, but his senior aides did? >> wolf, don't call me, but call the families who were waiting three, four times longer for emergency situations, when their loved ones had extreme chest pains and waiting for an chance. apologize to the thousands of families whose kids were late for the first day of school. >> there are e-mails about the

kids who were late for school and one of the aides says, well, they're just -- their parents are just bono voters any way. in other words, we don't care about the kids whose parents are democrats. are you kidding me? >> it's pretty bad. >> in the united states -- >> not only that, he was cruising to a land slide. the headiness of this, just because a democrat, for god sake -- >> this is where the nixon parallel comes in. >> i talked to a major politician tonight, and he was saying -- made an interesting point. one of the things you have is a narrative that develops, the negative narrative. if something comes up, which play into that stereotype, that is extraordinarily damaging. >> like the bullying. >> the bully story, that he seemed vindictive, and this plays into that stereotype. if it had been about competence or whether he's tough enough -- >> you were quoting someone on

your website tonight that previously, if he was seen as a bully, it was for the people of new jersey, that he was working on their behalf. but the idea that he's bullying against the very people he's governing over -- >> you can punch up as a politician and take on the powers that be. when you start punching down -- >> kids. >> i'm with you. it's ugly. i worry about a president that's going to be vindictive like that. you don't want someone in position -- >> on the flip side of this, plenty of people said, this is politics. all these people do this probably. >> no, they don't. look, i've covered politics. i think i'm as cynical as the next person. shutting down lanes on a bridge to punish a mayor who didn't endorse you.

i've never heard of anything like that. >> people were just -- >> i thought it was bizarre. what, what? what sane person would do this? >> in that e-mail where she says, time to shut down some lanes, he says got it. it's as if this -- like they know what they're talking about. if somebody e-mailed me as the head of the transportation and said time to shut down some lanes, i wouldn't be like, oh, got it. >> it was an odd statement, time for some traffic problems. it's all code for running a thugocracy. >> yeah, it's very thuggy. >> i don't think it's out of question that it could force him out of office. >> absolutely. >> it all depends on the facts.

until we know the facts, we don't know how serious it is. >> this is the plague of modern life, there are e-mails and text messages. if he is on some of these e-mails, he's gone. >> it sounds a little panicked, that statement today. >> he's been poo-pooing it for a while and mocking it to anybody that brings it up. >> those of us in the northeast has been following this because there were rumors and accusations about it. and chris christie and his administration said this is absurd. now we know it was clearly done. the only question is, who authorized it? >> when these things come up, if you're chief executive, your responsibility is to start investigating it then, not wait until something comes out later. he should have known and gotten to the bottom of this long before tonight. >> that's the issue is the

timing. >> we'll learn even more tomorrow. join the conversation tweeting us. we'll show your comments at the bottom of the screen. up next, the toddler in that video the one millions saw cursing with adults in the room. just moments ago, we learned authorities have acted. we'll tell you what happened to the toddler now. and does a state have the right to keep a woman on life support against her wishes and family's wishes just because she's pregnant? that story ahead. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work

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welcome back. we just learned that a toddler we told you about last night is now in protective custody in omaha, nebraska. we showed you video showing him in a diaper, adults with him and obscene language. the adults egging him on to say horrific things.

we warn you this is not easy to take. here is just part of it. >> [ bleep ]. you a bitch! >> you throwing a fit, [ bleep ] [ bleep ] you. >> you ain't talking that [ bleep ] now, bitch! >> the video posted on the website of the omaha, nebraska police officer's association, which got a tip that it was on a facebook page. the video highlights the cycle of violence omaha faces, and according to a statement for the omaha police, authorities were able to identify the child and the adults you heard in the background. tonight, the little boy and three other children have been removed from the home. joining us now is sunny hostin and mark geragos. is it right that cps goes in and takes out kids? >> it's right, but this may be one of the due times sunny and i agree with anything. the racial overtones are so

unbelievable for the police to put that up there, the thug, the -- what hood you from, blood. all this is code word and code and it's outrageous. having defended several african-americans in nebraska, probable cause in nebraska is being black while driving. >> there are several african-americans in nebraska. that's tissue i have. the police union saying they're dealing with this issue of african-american thugs in nebraska. last time i checked, they were 4% of the population. >> 13.7% in omaha. >> i can't imagine that the 13% are committing so much crime that they're facing this debacle. so i think it's racist that they

would do something like this. the racial overtones are incredible. the law enforcement officers are supposed to be investigating. you see something like that, and the objective should be to get the child help. what we saw is child abuse. i prosecuted many child abuse cases. i know child abuse when i see it. >> they posted on the website, it's only the public outcry that causes them to run in there and grab the kid. it didn't click with anybody when they posted it -- >> that wasn't their intention. it was exploitive, it was

shaming. they didn't go to some meth lab and show some little white kids, like showing you the range of thug babies. this was very specific. i think their intention was to shame, contain -- >> but can cps move in -- just because you have bad parents who are not responsible, they can move in. >> cps can go in for practically anything. >> this is not anything. this is clear child abuse. >> cps can go in for virtually anything. they air on the side of being overdiligent. to me, that's what they should have done immediately. it shouldn't have been waiting for somebody to post it. >> did we learn anything about the adults? like the people who were making -- >> the man was supposedly the uncle of the child. the parents of the child were actually apparently not there. >> did the parents know about it? >> i don't know. >> because what he posted on facebook sounded like an adolescent. >> did you see his message? it was pretty bad. >> it just sounded like a teen thug? >> how do you leave your child with someone like that? >> that's the issue, too. is this a baby sitting situation. >> do you think this is all that common?

>> absolutely not. >> i want to talk about another story. there's a brain dead woman in texas right now connected to a life support machine in a hospital. in spite of what she and her husband ever wanted. before we talk about it, ed lavendara explains why. >> reporter: she was a 33-year-old woman, expecting their second child when it happened. she collapsed in her home of an apparent blood clot in her lung. her family got the news shortly after. they say doctors told them she was brain dead and would never recover. her body is now connected to a ventilator inside this hospital, despite her family's wishes. >> we've reached the point where, you know, you wish that your wife's body would stop. >> reporter: the hospital refuses to unplug the ventilator, because she's pregnant, and texas is about one

of 30 states that restrict a woman's ability to be disconnected if their pregnant, regardless of the patient or the family's directive. they are paramedics, and end of life issues is something they talked about often. >> we've seen things out in the field. we both knew that we didn't want to be on life support. >> back with our panel. sunny, we talked about this in the 8:00. you believe that the law is right to keep this woman on a ventilator. >> we know that this was a wanted pregnancy. she was in a happy, married relationship. and this was an unforeseen circumstance. >> but she told her husband she never wanted to be on a ventilator. >> but i can't imagine part of that conversation was, and if i'm pregnant, and my baby is 14 weeks -- >> doesn't the husband know more about what she would want? >> no, because her husband doesn't have a uterus. >> i did say that to me. it is interesting to me, but in

the 8:00 hour, i'm speaking with a panel of men who are all saying, pull the plug, pull the plug. and i challenge you -- >> can we just set the stage here? this is not somebody in a vegetative state or a coma. this is somebody that's brain dead. in every state in the united states, this person meets the definition for death. we're not talking about life support, but somebody who is already clinically, legally dead. >> does this child have a chance of being born and living? >> yes. >> if that is the case, then i'm with you. >> but that's if the mother is kept on a ventilator. at this point, it's not a vital fetus. >> i think it's grotesque to keep this woman breathing against the will of the person

who loves her most in the world. this just shows how abortion politics dominates american politics in so many ways. the only reason this law exists is because the people who don't believe in abortion want to expand the definition of life. at the end of life, the beginning of life -- >> one at a time. andrew. >> this is a human being, at a stage of developing that might have a chance of living. >> 14 weeks, 20 weeks? >> if there is any chance that this human child can live, then this human child should be given the chance. that's not abortion politics. that's called defending life. >> the baby's mother would not want the baby to survive -- again, this is a wanted pregnancy. i don't believe had she had the decision to make, mark geragos -- >> mikayla? >> this is really fascinating.

>> you have a uterus, too. >> and i love my uterus. but i don't think that you need a uterus to have an opinion on this. i do think this is abortion politics, but much more complicated than we've ever seen. this is the father now choosing -- because he's going to be the caretaker if that child gets to live. >> you do not get to choose -- >> let me finish. i do think that this is about a right to life with the parent. we've never seen this before where the mother is the one who is not able to say she wants an abortion or not. it's not cut and dry, this conversation. >> she was a paramedic. she faced on a daily basis life and death issues. she discussed this at length -- >> so she discussed this -- >> she did -- here the way the law is written, the law -- the hospital is interpreting the law

that they have to keep her alive in spite of what the -- i will make a prediction. jeff is notoriously bad about predictions. but they now have lawyers. i believe these lawyers are going to go into federal court, get a judge to order that they honor the wishes -- they'll give notice, they'll be there the following day. >> they actually had a conversation, if she were pregnant? >> we don't know that. >> that's why it's so very important here. >> the family is saying she wanted to be taken off life support. i would suggest to everyone that particular conversation wasn't had. >> one at a time. >> if your father and your husband should have no decision making powers and that it should be?

here she has her father, her husband, and her have made this decision and now -- >> we don't know that she made that decision, mark geragos. on top of it, when there's this murky situation and there's a gray area, the law does step in and the law in texas is that a pregnant woman cannot be taken off life support. >> the law is being interpreted by that hospital. they're dead wrong. the law is somebody who is in a vegetative or comatose state. >> can somebody speak up for the child? >> it's not a child, it's a fetus. >> i understand that. this is not a child. this is a fetus. i think we need to honor the autonomy of a woman and the only way we can honor that is to listen to the people who knew her best, and those people believe that she should be allowed to die. >> the child should be made to die. >> made to die. if a pregnant woman dies at 14 or 20 weeks, no fetus can survive. >> if there's a chance to save this child, a human being, why would you not try and do that? >> would you keep an adult on a ventilator in the chance that something will change >> this is different. if there is hope that this child can be born and living a life, i think that person needs to be protected.

>> every pregnant woman has a life within them that has a chance to live. some women choose to end that. that's her choice. >> she didn't make that choice. >> she made a choice to inform her husband that she didn't want to be kept alive. >> you've got her husband, her father, and the idea that we're sitting here in new york dictating to this family what should happen with this woman

who is dead, and as i agree with jeff, it's ghoulish. >> i'm just simply trying to defend the other human being involved in this particular tragic situation. >> but accepting what you're saying, your argument, abortion should never exist, ever. >> that's comparing elephants and apples. >> do you make a difference between being in a vegetative state and brain dead? >> it's a unique situation in pregnancy. i don't believe in ridiculously extensive measures to keep people alive, absolutely not. but when another human life is there, and it may be a matter of months before that human can have a chance to live, you don't should be dictating that life.

>> i don't think i should or you should, i think the father of the husband should. the law, if you read the law, i think it's clear that the hospital is misinterpreting this. >> the guy that wrote the law, or one of the guys involved in writing the law said that they're misapplying the law. >> if you just read the text of the law, this is the hospital is dead wrong. >> so make it plain, what is the law? how does it read? >> if somebody is in a persistent vegetative state, in a coma, not when somebody is clinically dead. you can't say we're talking about life support, when every state in the union defines her as dead. >> do you think this will be reversed in a court? >> i don't know. i think particularly in texas,

where there is this intense opposition to abortion and anything that would limit the life of a fetus, i wouldn't want to predict how this would come out. >> how can a dead person bring a live baby to birth? >> there are two categories of death. brain death, which she is, and then there is circulatory, whether you have the vascular -- >> we're talking about semantics. the bottom line is, you have a child -- because i disagree with you, jeff. a 20-week-old. >> they don't know, because they feel -- or they can sense a heart beat. they don't know -- remember, this is a woman who lost oxygen for a sustained period of time. so by all accounts, that's what caused her brain death. for all we know, we've got a fetus in the same situation. >> if the baby is less than perfect, the baby doesn't deserve to live? >> it's not a baby, because it is a fetus. i don't think that fetus -- there's any right to keep a dead body circulating in order to incubate a fetus. to me, that's ghoulish. it's invasion of the body

snatchers. >> let's continue this conversation on twitter. i would like to know what you think. coming up, we'll talk about some bombshell revelations about fox news founder roger ailes. we'll be right back. if yand you're talking toevere rheuyour rheumatologistike me, about trying or adding a biologic. this is humira, adalimumab. this is humira working to help relieve my pain.

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we're back, talking about politics and fox news. there's a new book out of the network founder roger ailes, called "the loudest voice in the room" about his appetite for being a political player in the republican party and a whole lot more. he says the author refused to

fact check it with him or with fox news. sherman says he made a dozen requests to check with roger ailes. back now with our panel. have you -- what do you make of this book? i have not read this book. i don't know the details of it. >> because i'm a reporter, i have been waiting three years to read this book. people like me have wondered, what has he learned? and "the new york times" leaks last night gave us the first answer, that lead quote saying i want to elect the next president seems to speak about what roger ailes is in a nutshell, that he's always been a republican operative. yet he's the creative of -- >> he's really good at what he's been able to create. >> what the book presents is these two sides. yes, he's created this cable news channel and turned it into a billion dollar success story. but he's running this political machine, running as the de facto head of the republican party. this book puts so much more evidence out there. >> one of the great questions of american politics is why is the

republican party more conservative than they used to be? there used to be a moderate core in this party. how much does fox news have to do with that? i don't know. >> i wouldn't put it like that. what fox news has done is put a premium on entertainment on the right. in other words, shifting it to the far right, what it's done is put a premium on good talkers, good exhibitionists, good talk show hosts. not governors. not people interested in the nitty gritty of politics. people whose careers are made by poe -- by polarizing. >> roger ailes said, i have all these tv screens on in my office. i tell people turn off the volume, watch the screens. if your guys go to fox, it's working. that speaks to entertainment. he captures viewers in a way that other television networks don't. >> no serious conversations are

going on within the republican party. >> bill o'reilly is sitting there -- >> he's a compelling broadcaster. >> he's terrific. he's incredibly good at what he does. it's what he says, not how he looks. that's what roger ailes has captured. >> i think he takes positions every now and then which are surprising. they're not necessarily what you would expect. they could be contrary to what you would expect. >> sean hannity sure doesn't. >> whether you agree with their opinions, they have an emotional opinion with their audience that is very intense and they engage emotionally. >> it's great visual television. what creeps me out is the idea there is a single line of the day coming down from the very top dictating like a totalitarian system what the truth is today. and you see all the stories lining up that way. we know that's how he operates. i don't think that's the way to have a real conversation. that's not about -- >> roger ailes began as a political consultant. he worked for richard nixon. what's remarkable is how he does have a political line.

salesman with a tv show. don't know how he'll react to that. he told his inner circle i want to elect the next president. interesting today that fox has bail touched this christie story. may be trying to protect their man. he called brian kill killmeade a >> it's great visual television. what creeps me out is the idea there is a single line of the day coming down from the very top dictating like a totalitarian system what the truth is today. and you see all the stories lining up that way. we know that's how he operates. i don't think that's the way to

have a real conversation. that's not about -- >> roger ailes began as a political consultant. he worked for richard nixon. what's remarkable is how he does have a political line. and it's not always the most extreme part of the party. he's decided that he's for immigration reform. fox is now for immigration reform, which most of the republican party is not. it's remarkable there is this -- >> we have to take a quick break. up next, wanda sykes joins us. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] this is kevin. to prove to you that aleve is the better choice for him, he's agreed to give it up. that's today? [ male announcer ] we'll be with him all day

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welcome back to the program. wanda sykes is back on o.w.n., the oprah winfrey network. she's joined us -- she's joined by lots of people and she's joined us tonight. catch an episode of her show this saturday night. here's a preview. >> welcome aboard. you're right on time for another smooth ride or this super soul train sunday. so sit back, relax your mind and get ready to have a funky good time with the guru of funk himself. but first, let's get down to this. >> oh, yeah. >> back with our panel and wanda sykes. >> good to be here.

thank you. >> you are imitating oprah on oprah's network? >> not imitating oprah, but it was, you know, she does this super soul sunday. and so i said, well, let's do super soul train sunday. so that was my homage. >> did you have to clear that in advance? >> she loved it, she loved it. the first two we did it was pretty much all making fun of harpo and her own bits. this time she said let's get away from harpo and do whatever you want to do. i said, well, there's one i have to do, super soul train sunday. and she fell out laughing. and she said, yeah, do it. we do the soul train line, and i'm coming down the soul train line but i'm walking on hot coals. >> when you were talking about this during the break, you had the washington correspondents in there.

i find it to be the worst night imaginable. but you enjoyed it? >> i loved it. it was a great show. but it's such an odd room, because you look out and say oh, there's madeiline albright and who let kim kardashian in here. >> what about sitting next to the president of the united states and doing standup, is that intimidating? >> you know what? the idea of it, very intimidating. but he went on first, and he killed. he's really funny. >> very funny. >> and so i was like -- it was like following another comic. >> how long do you have to prepare for something like that? >> you know, it worked out where i didn't get stressed too much over it, because my wife was like nine months pregnant, and so i was like waiting for her to -- i had more important things to do before i could go out and practice. i think i had three weeks to pull it together. >> fascinating. >> when did you -- >> when? is this a trick question? in 2008. >> that expression come out of your mouth, my wife. it's such a moving thing.

>> you love being married? >> i do. this is going to sound like i'm sucking up to my husband -- >> hey, this is a family show. ain't it? >> when you said it, it sort of went right by me. it just sort -- like they're married people. some people are straight married, some people are gay married. i happen to know -- we've acted together. [ all talking at once ] >> to get to that nonevent, that's what is so great. >> we're not quite there for the whole country or the whole world. but i just thought as you said that, that was just -- >> it brings us to the story we should talk about, a female drama coach at a female catholic high school announced she's engaged to be married to her girlfriend of five years. the news in seattle reports that the school's president says that stephanie marrow is still welcome at the school. but mark was forced out of his job after he married his male partner in violation of catholic teaching. you were saying that the school told him that if -- >> if he got divorced that they

>> when you said it, it sort of went right by me. it just sort -- like they're married people. some people are straight married, some people are gay married. i happen to know -- we've acted together. [ all talking at once ] >> to get to that nonevent, that's what is so great. >> we're not quite there for the whole country or the whole world. but i just thought as you said that, that was just -- >> it brings us to the story we should talk about, a female drama coach at a female catholic high school announced she's engaged to be married to her girlfriend of five years. the news in seattle reports that the school's president says that stephanie marrow is still welcome at the school. but mark was forced out of his job after he married his male partner in violation of catholic teaching. you were saying that the school told him that if -- >> if he got divorced that they might rehire them. that's the catholic church twisted up in itself. yes, i'm glad a woman was involved, that someone said can

we please sane about this. the idea that we're punishing someone because they're committed to someone else in marriage? >> don't you to get the pope to -- >> when my parents got divorced and my father was catholic, it was very complicated for them to be recognized as divorced. >> i don't think the catholic church should go around firing teachers who might have been divorced. it's a double standard. >> what was interesting about this story is that the students were unanimously behind the gay folks, man, woman who wanted to get married. that reflects the generational changes going on. people under 18 can't even understand what the fuss is about and they just want people to be happy and live together and love each other as best they can. i just think generationally, that's the big change. >> i think, i hope the pope actually does understand that cultural shift. interesting this week, he talked about not treating gay catholics or divorced catholics in such a way -- she was delicate about this. in such a way we don't create

what he called a vaccine against the faith. when a church starts treating people that way, you've lost your way. you are pushing people away from christianity. >> you hope that we are meant to evolve. that also means we evolve with our consciousness. some other practices or people that believe in family values, this just seems so contrary to say family values that we don't

want all people to create families and get married. it just seems like neanderthals. >> it's going to happen more and more. >> i think so, too. i'm very pro teacher. do you realize how bad your kids are? you know what i'm saying? we're sending people to these lovely people who want to educate our kids. we basically send them a lump of clay. do you realize how bad your child is? how, bad clay. you have a great teacher and the kids love them. leave them alone. let them do their job. >> we have to take a quick break. we'll be right back. time now for what's your

mine was earned orbiting the moon in 1971.

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time now for what's your story. we ask people on the panel for a

story that people might have missed. andrew? >> "the new york times" became a little more like buzz feed. it's hiring dell employees to write its stories. it's going to be presented as stories in the same font and type face of "the new york times," sponsored, written by dell. and they're all going to have a disclaimer at the top saying, paid for by dell. >> so they're ads for dell? >> designed to deceive you thinking they're articles. and for the new york times to do that is an extraordinary step in the surrender of journalism. >> it was going to be the velveeta shortage. but more interestingly, the u.s. patent and trademark organization rejected red skin name because it was derogatory or a slur. so it's interesting to see how this is going to play out with the nfl, because this was the official patent office. but red skin hog rinds, no more pork rinds. >> i spoke to my publicist today and she has informed me that apparently i am not going to be voted "people's" sexiest woman of the year again. so yeah, that's not happening this year. just put that out there. >> my story is your comedy special, which is this saturday.

>> thank you. >> what time? >> it's on o.w.n. at 10:00 p.m. >> i think what we need is an all wanda station. >> that's crazy eyes. >> we talked about this over the break at "saturday night live" hiring an african-american female? >> i hope she has a great season. there's a lot of pressure out there on her. but my advice to her would be only play white characters for the first season. only do white characters. don't let them make you do a black character. ask for a judy dent sketch or something. >> i have to follow on that? it's a little bit of a different story. the utah marriages that took place, the state of utah has said they will not honor all of them. they will not honor any of them. i think it just indicates we talk about same-sex marriage. i sometimes talk about it as if it's only heading in one direction, but it's not. there are two steps forward, one step back.

>> we talked about this over the break at "saturday night live" hiring an african-american female? >> i hope she has a great season. there's a lot of pressure out there on her. but my advice to her would be only play white characters for the first season. only do white characters. don't let them make you do a black character. ask for a judy dent sketch or something. >> i have to follow on that? it's a little bit of a different story. the utah marriages that took place, the state of utah has said they will not honor all of them. they will not honor any of them. i think it just indicates we talk about same-sex marriage. i sometimes talk about it as if it's only heading in one direction, but it's not.

there are two steps forward, one step back. this was a step back. >> great to have you on the program. love to have you back. and thanks to everybody on the panel. that does it for "ac 360 later." thanks for watching. see you tomorrow night. announ] c , bob will retire when he's 153, which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage. luckily, he found someone who gave him a fresh perspective on his portfolio. and with some planning and effort, hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age. it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.

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