these next weeks or months as he decides whether to, in fact, take another trip. we've seen just here on cnn air wild vacillations and mood swing, opinions, pronouncements, statements, dennis seems to have many contradictory opinions within himself. i think we'll see those play out over the next few weeks or months whether he decides to go back. >> i suspect you're right. rachel nichols joining us. she's the host of rachel nichols -- unguarded with rachel nichols, friday nights 10:30 p.m. eastern. that's it for me. thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in washington. "crossfire" starts right now. tonight on "crossfire" -- fighting for middle class jobs and helping people who have lost their jobs. >> we waste so much time. >> why is it taking so long? what are the biggest hurdles? >> we think we have better ideas. >> on the left van jones, on the

right kevin madden, in the crossfire, senator ben carton, a democrat from maryland and senator john barrasso from wyoming. what can washington do to help you get a better job? tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire," i'm kevin madden on the right. >> i'm van jones on the left. >> in the crossfire we've got two senators that have different ideas about how to help the middle class, but one thing we know would lep a lot, extending the unemployment benefits. but a little over an hour ago, thanks to the republicans, the key vote was delayed again. now, look, after listening to senator republicans all afternoon, i think the golden globes got it wrong last night. i think the washington republicans should have won for best acting. all these false tears over the jobs numbers, but they won't pass a jobs bill, they won't extend help for active job

seekers and, worse, cutting the jobless benefits would suck billions of dollars out of our economy and wipe out another quarter million jobs. so why this crazy masquerade? in the end they're just hoping you're going to blame obama for everything and give the republicans more power. now that's what i call some great acting. >> you know, van, in order to believe anything you just said, you have to act as if president obama wasn't president for the last five years. so in the spirit of you mentioning the golden globe, i would say that's american hustle. >> oh, we came to play! well in the "crossfire" tonight, democratic senator ben carton. since you're the guest host i'll let you go first. >> senator, aren't we getting mixed messages from the democrats? on the one hand we say the economy is coming back, the white house when the jobs numbers came in last week, touting all these good numbers. then on the other hand you say we have to spend a lot of money

on unemployment benefits. which is it? >> we've made progress. we've created 2 million jobs in 2013 over the last four years, 8 million jobs have been created. we're moving in the right direction, but we have to do a lot more. people can still not find employment. we need to create more job, more job opportunities. extending unemployment should be the first thing we do. isn't it? should have been a no-brainer. that continues to help families that are suffering where people are looking for work. what the republicans are suggesting is, okay, we'll extend it, but we want to offset the cost. that just takes money out of the economy when you're trying to build jobs. doesn't really make a lot of sense. what we want to see is a balanced approach where we invest in job growth. we invest in roads and bridges and our energy grid system and research and education. that will help create jobs but you need a balanced budget to do that. >> senator, everything he just said makes perfectly good sense to me. i think 97% of people listening would say amen to what he just said. i don't understand why we can't

get this done. you guys on the republican side are going to have to give in on the unemployment insurance. you know it's true. that's why this vote's getting kicked back. why don't we just go ahead and get this thing done rather than terrifying all the american families who fear they're not able to get the support they deserve. >> a lot of american families are worried about their kids and grandkids in terms of the debt. and to throw this additional spending is borrowing more money against our kids and grandkids is something that does worry a lot of merps. when somebody loses their job, you want to help them. we have a social safety net out there. people get coverage for the first 26 weeks, so everybody gets that. and then the question is what additional -- this has been an emergency effort and to try to extend that is something i actually support, but we need to modify the program and cut other areas of spending to do it. i thought we were going to vote on this last week. the republicans have a number of amendments. harry reid has blocked voting on

each one of the amendments. i thought we were going to vote tonight. ben and i worked together on the foreign relations committee, environment and public works committee together. we work well together. i believe he would agree with me that it seems absurd that we as republicans have only been able to offer on the floor of the united states senate four amendments for a vote since last july. four since last july. and harry's writing these things behind closed doors. you guys haven't had many to offer yourself. you've been blocked just as much as i have. >> there needs to be more comity between the democrats and the republicans. no question there's too much partisanship in the senate and washington. but what i don't understand, that when george w. bush was president, we extended unemployment benefits. we didn't look for ways of offsetting it because we knew that during good times we collected money in the unemployment insurance funds to use when we're in a recession, that we didn't have to offset these costs. now all of a sudden the ground

rules are changing, which are not only hurting families but hurting our economy. why did you change the ground rules here? >> as you know the biggest problems is there aren't jobs for these people. the jobs numbers in december were terrible. the fewest number of jobs created over the last three years. that's the real problem here. even in the health care field where nancy pelosi said pass the health care law there would be 4 million jobs immediately. they actually lost jobs in the health care field according to numbers in doctor's offices and hospitals as well as home health care. there are huge concerns with the economy. you and i agree that if somebody is out of work, that impacts their health, that impacts the way they think about themselves, their identity. we need to try to find ways for people to get back to work. i want to extend the unemployment benefits, but i want to do it with paying for it by cutting other spending. and the americans know there's enough waste -- >> this brings me to a point, senator cardin, this is to show

that this is not partisan. not only republicans think the economy is bad. we asked people about the economic conditions today. 32% rated it as good. and 68% rated it as poor. what this poll shows us is that we've got a level of what i would describe as economic exasperation that hasn't budged in the last five years since president obama's been in office. how do we address it? >> no question we got to do better. president obama, we have created job, we have turned the corner. president obama inherited a real mess. we are now moving in the right direction. we have to do a lot better. that's why we can't to make college education for available for lower income families. too many have to sacrifice a college education for their children. that's why we can't to make health care affordable. >> is there anything we can do beyond -- i understand the democrats want this top-down approach, is there anything we can do structurally to the economy outside of just government spending that can

help create more jobs. >> absolutely. >> outside of government spending. >> a reasonable budget policy that brings in the revenue we need and a balance somewhat similar to what simpson bowles was recommending but includes both revenues and spending reduction. that would generate so much activity it would help give predictability to the private sector and unleash -- >> you say make health care more affordable, this health care bill has done anything but. we've seen people noticing premiums going up by a lot. sticker shock, we're seeing people losing their doctor, losing their coverage, worry about identity theft. higher co-pays. >> first of all, all these things are hurting the economy more than helping. >> you get it then i get it. >> the rate of health care costs have gone down. >> but they're gainp but -- >> rather dramatically over the

historic levels. the fact that more people can now find coverage that covers pre-existing conditions, the fact that seniors now have coverage for prescription drug better than they had before, we've made a lot of progress. >> let me ask you a question. >> health care may have gone up but that's been going on for five years -- >> here's another thing. >> going on for five years. obama care had nothing to do with that, it was happening anyway, the slow growth. some was drugs. i'm a doctor, practiced medicine a long time. some are pharmaceuticals that have come off and are now generic like plavix for heart medicine. >> i appreciate your willingness to be on the obama care bandwagon. here's my problem. i want to show you some numbers. when people ask ordinary people who actually cares about you, has concern and passion, 45% say it's the democrats. only 17% say republicans. when you guys come on here and you attack the only program that's been put you forward to

try to do something about the health care crisis that was going on before obama got here, you're attacking food stamps, how is this helping your party to deal with this brand problem you have as a party that doesn't care. mitt romney was put forward as a candidate. people said he didn't care. they said your party doesn't care. how does this help you attacking the milled class programs. >> the middle class has been harmed during the obama economy terribly. and the health care law is number one. "the washington post" had a story two days ago the second wave of cancellations. and the people who are going to get hit, it said, are the 20 million middle class americans who get their insurance through small businesses, groups of 50 or less. >> more insurance and better insurance in the exchanges. >> more insurance but not better. >> perhaps better by the president's definition, but making somebody who has had a

hysterectomy buy coverage to deliver babies isn't necessarily helping -- >> let me ask john a question. would you repeal the provision that allows those with pre-existing conditions to be able to get full coverage? >> not at all. you know, my wife is a breast cancer survivor -- >> how do you get there if you don't bring everybody into the system? if you don't bring everybody into the system, the sickest will always join the system. those that are healthy will not. how do you do a system that everyone can get full coverage, no pre-existing condition, you want to make it affordable, but those that are young and healthy say, gee, why should i bother to get insurance? i don't need it. >> you don't destroy something that works for 85% of the people to deal specifically with a different issue that you want to help people with pre-existing -- my wife's had three operation, chemotherapy twoois, i know as well as a doctor as well as a husband what's involved with pre-existing conditions. you were in the state legislature, i was in the state

senate in wyoming. we had a high risk pool to help those people. affordable insurance for them. but we didn't have to try to destroy the entire system for everybody else. what we have is a transfer of wealth going on in this country as a result. >> stay here. we're not going to solve this in the next 30 seconds, but we'll try when we come back. president obama has a hillary clinton problem again. i'll give you my theory about it next. your eyes really are unique.

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welcome back in the "crossfire" department democratic senator ben cardin and republican senator john barrasso. a little over an hour ago the snet abruptly stopped a vote on ending unemployment benefits. does this prove that washington is so dis functional we can't even find a way to solve the small stuff? are republicans and even some democrats simply waiting out this presidency?

both inside washington and out, more people are focused on what hillary clinton would or wouldn't do as president than they are about what this current president can accomplish in the final three years of his term. so senator cardin, are we -- i hate to use the term "lame duck" just yet, but are we past the point of no return with this president? as far as getting something big done? >> absolutely not. we have to get things accomplished. the senate passed immigration reform. that's very important to america to get that bill done. we're going to push for that this year, we think we can get it done. there are a lot of areas that this congress is going to move forward to get things accomplished, on the verge of getting a budget enacted. we hope that will happen as early as this week. so no, this congress needs to deal with the underlying problems that are affecting the middle class and our economy and national security and the election will take care of itself. we have a midterm election. >> we do have a midterm election. >> very early for the -- >> midterm elections and also

the president's agendas depend on something very big here, which i think the president doesn't have, which is popularity in the polls. we've seen them go down and they've stayed down in the 40s. does that become a problem? in order to get things done up on capitol hill, you have to be able to marshal some big grand coalitions. you do need a certain level of populari popularity. >> popularity numbers go up and down and it's the issues. the president has the respect of the american people, has the respect of congress to get things accomplished. he stood up for major issues international as well as domestic. no we're serious -- >> i agree, listen senator, the public is actually with the president on numerous issues from immigration to minimum wage, et cetera. you said something the last block that i want to come back to as we're talking about washington being functional. you said the obama economy, as if obama is somehow directly able to direct this economy.

the last time president obama i saw him at a signing ceremony, he had black hair and he looked like tiger woods. okay? it's been three years since you guys have been able to work with him or willing to work with him to get anything done. it's not the obama economy, it's the obstruction economy. at what point will you find something you can work with this president on. it seems to me people are just waiting him out. >> there are bipartisan things that republicans and democrats agree and one is the pipeline. the president looked me in the eye and said by january 1st i'll make a decision and you will know what it is. republicans and democrats overwhelmingly support this. he has done nothing. republicans and democrats agree with repealing the health -- the tax on medical devices. republicans and democrats agree on sanctions against iran. these are being blocked from votes in the united states senate. but what we're seeing are

additional regulations coming out of this president that are making it harder and more expensive for the private sector to put people to work which is why the polling shows -- >> so what's wrong with america is president obama, is that right, senator cardin? >> and every opportunity you've had, the republicans have had, they've tried to block this administration from getting things done. they've tried to take the environmental protection agency, take the resources away from it, put restrictions on what they can do. there's a denial about climate change. there was a rider that said the administration couldn't regulate carbon even though the courts have already ruled on this issue. there's been the relitigation of the affordable care act even though it's the law of the land. there's been no -- >> the president doesn't act like it's the law of the land. >> there's been no cooperation whatsoever. let me just give you one example of a contrast here. when medicare part d was passed strong initiative by a republican president, most democrats opposed it. >> yes.

>> i opposed it because i wanted a public option. i wanted it to be paid for. i wanted discounts for form suitical drug. none of that was included in the legislation, but the day after it passed we worked together to make it work. affordable care act passed three years ago. where are the -- >> no interest in hearing any of the ideas. >> he doesn't act like it's the law. >> 14 times he's changed it. he said, no, don't pay attention to this part. just forget about this part. i'm just going to push this off to the side. >> why wouldn't you work with us to make this work rather than sticking to this one-liner that we're going to repeal the program? i asked you about the pre-existing condition. you said no, you like that. i don't know how you feel about medicare part d, medicare. >> i'll tell you interrupting the life of so many americans. >> why can't we sit down and talk about this? there's too much partisanship in washington, no question on both sides of the aisle. we have to work together.

these are issues that affect america, affect the middle class and to answer your question, we've got to use every opportunity including 2014 to move forward with these agendas. >> to answer your question, this president is a lame duck legislative president. the last year there has been under the senate under they have not passed one jobs bill. >> funny you mention the jobs bill. the president put forward a jobs bill with nothing but republican ideas in it. you guys wouldn't support him on that. you guys will not support the president when he puts forward republican ideas. >> there are 15 bills at the senate. you mentioned there is enough partisanship to go around. let's look at harry reid. harry reid is not blameless in the process. we have a very poisonous environment. we did see the political op-ed

by mitch mcconnell. >> i believe the republicans forced the change in the practice of the senate so we could confirm appointments. and the president, any president whether democrat or republican deserves to have up or down votes on his appointments or her appointments. and that's good whether it is republican president and democratic congress or democratic president and republican congress we should be taking up nominations. we couldn't get votes on it. it was obstructed by a record number of filibusters by the republicans. harry reid has a responsibility to the american people as the leader of the senate, the majority leader, to make sure we take up issues. >> do you disagree with that? >> i think -- we worked together as a work of eight senators to try to keep a rule section together so that the senate could continue to function. harry reid told us he would abide by that for two years.

that was less than a year ago. this past summer he said he will not blow up the senate. his word cannot be trusted which is a problem when he decided in november to change the rule. he broke the rules to change the rules. and as a result the fact that this administration's legislative history is done. the president is a legislative lame duck. and his only hope is [ inaudible ]. >> the majority leader doesn't need me to defend him. i was proud to be part of that group. we thought we reached. the agreement was not carried out by the republicans. so many judgments were being held up and nominations were being held up. harry reid said clearly that he wants it to work. >> these are judges that president bush couldn't get in place because the democrats blocked him when he was president, the same vacancies which is why the supreme court

had a hearing today. >> when we come back -- i'm going to get -- the final question for both of our guests. i also want you at home to weigh in on today's fire back question. will the economy improve in 2014? i want you to tweet yes or no using hash tg cross fire. we'll let you know the results when we get back from this break. the conversation about her mortgage didn't start here. it began on her vacation in europe. someone stole her identity and opened some credit cards in her name. checking her experian credit report and score allowed her to better address the issue...and move right in. experian.

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we are back with senators

ben carton and john borasso. you mentioned the keystone pipeline which i think is a myth in terms of job creation. would you be willing to pay for this unemployment insurance by taking away the $10 billion of unnecessary corporate welfare for oil and gas companies? >> there is so much oil and gas on public lands the tax revenue alone would cover that but the president continues to block these sources -- >> up or down on getting rid of corporate welfare? >> those are people's jobs at stake and the president's policies continue to hurt the middle class. >> senator, a number of times earlier you referenced president george w. bush when talking about the economy. now that president bush is in the rear view mirror is it

finally president obama's economy? >> he inherited an economy -- >> five years now. this is the obama economy. >> it was his responsibility to turn it around. i think his policies have turned the economy in the right direction. we need to build more jobs. >> so the obama economy? >> i think it is our economy. >> well, and i -- don't you think republicans take more responsibility for not finding at least one or two signature issues to work with this president on? >> i think republicans want to work with this president. as a doctor i wanted to work with him on health care. he rejected all of the ideas that the republicans brought and continues to say republicans don't have ideas in spite of the fact there are a number of different proposals out there. >> we have so many more questions we want to talk to you about. i want to thank you. you can go to facebook or twitter back home to weigh in on our fireback question. will the economy improve in

2014? right now 37% of you say yes but 63% say no. the debate will continue online at cnn.com/crossfire. >> join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. next president obama finally responds to a white house pr nightmare. >> what is important is that we got the policy right but that this is hard. and it always has been. plus a southwest plane full of passengers lands at the wrong airport. >> rest assured we are safe and sound here and people know we are here. >> how could this happen? and new developments in the so-called thug