conservation. he'll be here exclusively. plus the class of 2016 under fire. hillary clinton and chris christie. i'll talk to two republicans who say she should take a lesson from him. john mccain and rudy giuliani are here. and new year new you. if there's one thing everyone need it's money advice. i've got the perfect person for that, dave ramsey. he is here live with the five things you need to do to put your financial house in order. we begin with someone who may be the most controversial man on planet earth right now. corely nolton says he's been getting death threats since he paid $350,000 for the right to hunt and kill a rare black african rhino. he joins me now exclusively. corey, welcome to the show. tap your name into any form of social media right now and never mind animals you want to kill, people want to kill you. how do you justify what you have done? >> well, i justify anytime the name of conservation. in belief system in sustainable

use. i am very knowledgeable and very educated on the subject about what's going on. the moneys needed. i think i got a long list of justifications. >> why do you think people have reacted to venomously to the news that you have paid this money to go and kill an endangered black rhino? >> i think honestly it has to do education. i think a lot of misinformation and misdirection. i think people, piers, they don't actually know the situation on the ground. i really don't. i think if people knew what's going on and understood it better, i think the vast majority of people wouldn't be that way. wouldn't feel that way, piers. i really don't. >> here's what -- have you read all the reaction for the last couple of hours to try and get a sense of why people are so enraged? here's what the common theme is. if you wanted to contribute money to help conservation in that area, to help other animals and rye knows an so on, why not just give the money to those involved in that?

why do you need to actually get in a car, take some kind of assault rifle or whatever it may be, i can ask you what you're going to use, and shoot a black rhino and as you have done many times on your facebook, pose for a trophy photograph with a dead animal? that's what they say. >> okay. that's what they say. the reality is, these animals in this situation, in namib irk a,the ministry environment of tourism, have earmarked a select group of animals that are killers. they're killing the other rhinos. they're actually the biggest killers of rhinos in the area. and so throughout -- they put this group of experts together. they went out there. they identified them as a problem. and they need to be for lack of a better term exterminated for the species to continue. and it to be a good ecosystem right there. now, the question about the money, why would i spend the money? is that what you were asking? why not just give it to them? >> yes. >> i think that's beside the point. it's going to happen, anyway.

my feeling about hunting and my feeling about conservation is a belief system that i have. and i feel like it's going to the right cause. and i feel like it is. i don't think it makes me a bigger man. i actually think, piers, i think it can make me a dead man. this is like one of the most dangerous animals in the world. i've hunted animals all over the world, led expeditions all over the world. this is probably the most dangerous situation that i'll ever be in outside of walking around right now with all the people that want to kill me. okay? >> here's the trouble, corey. people are listening to this going, really? that dangerous? isn't it very very likely that what's going to happen here is that you are going to take a large gun and you're going to shoot one of the only 5,000 or so remaining black rhinos in the world. and again, i would put it to you what the argument against what you're doing is, which is if you feel that strongly about it, then just give them the money to help with the general conservation in that area. do not go over there as a kind of wealthy american trophy hunter, and i speak on behalf of

fellow americans on social media who don't like the way you're representing them, going over there and just glorying in the death of this black rhino. that is what they say and that is what they believe. >> and i understand that's what they say and what they believe. but it is absolutely not the case, okay? i'm going to be there with a team of experts. now listen, you said okay, 5,000 black rhino. it's a very thick area, okay? we're going to be looking for five or less black rhino in an area where there's plenty. there's a surplus amount of them. that's why they're allowing it, the government has selected it to happen. okay? >> you're not disputing -- >> whoa whoa whoa, piers. let me finish. you asked me a question. >> finish it. but i do contest that point. i want you to accept one thing before you continue. do you accept it's in the 16 most endangered species of animal on the planet? do you accept that as a straight point? >> i accept as a starting place -- point in namibia that there's surplus of them and

they're about to be taken off of the endangered species list, piers. there are a surplus amount. now let's get back to what you said. because this is very important. i want to address the question you asked me. that area is extremely thick, and we're looking for five out of hundreds. you can't just see it's not like a wide open africa what people think. it's a brushy, nasty place. we have to get close to one of the most dangerous animals in the world, and it's very likely to charge us and possibly kill us, okay? i'm sure that will make half the people in the world happy, piers. maybe more of them. but the fact is, it's a dangerous situation. there's experts there that have earmarked them. and they're killing themselves already. so to that end i'm a hunter, i want to experience a black rhino. i want to be there and be a part of it, okay? i believe in the cycle of life. i don't believe that meat comes from the grocery store. i believe that animal died and i respect it. and piers, i haven't shot a black rhino yet, have i? i'm going on a black rhino hunt. i'm going on a conservation hunt

for earmarked animals that are killers, killing other rhinos. >> let me address that point. because jeff flocken from the international fund for animal welfare says honestly it's a farce to say this is being done for conservation. i do agree that there is sometimes a need to manage wildlife population in small areas. but there are less than 5,000 individuals left of the species. instead of killing it they can be moved to a different area, used to bring in photo tourism or ecotourism, something that doesn't actually involve killing the animal. he's an animal welfare expert, one of the world's leading experts. >> that's great. i understand he's an animal welfare expert. i'm going to defer to the scientists at the i.u.n. specialist group for rhinos, the foremost expert in the world. i'm going to defer to 177 nations that are members of cides. to the u.s. fish and wildlife service who are all 100% behind this. i'm going to defer to the wwf, who's also behind this.

so i'm glad he feels that way. i did not create this plan, piers. they created this plan. i'm the one that believes in it enough to put my money where my mouth is. i'm not just sitting at home watching a discovery channel. i'm not condemning those people. it's wonderful they're getting to see wildlife. but i understand these animals are going to die, anyway. you cannot grant them eternal life any more than i can. out there it is a crazy, wild world where these things kill each other. and i'm actually -- >> if you kill it, corey, if you kill it will you can as you have done many times posting a picture of you smiling and celebratory by the dead rhino? do you intend to do that? >> i intend to take trophy photos of the animal in a respectful manner so i can remember it, so i can give it to the namibian people and honor the animal as what it is, a very special. >> corey, do you understand that you may well have an argument on the conservation side.

i don't know enough about that side of it. but i read enough today to understand there is a debate about that. and you may well have an argument. what people hate about this kind of trophy hunting is the trophy aspect. they hate if they love animals seeing people like you with a lot of money going over there, hunting down enendangered species then proudly boasting of what you've done and posing for pictures which you look like you're celebrating. you've read the reaction >> yes. and i think hate -- look speaking of that, i want to go back to it. that's urban sentiment versus science, okay? urban sentiment is hate. i'm being part of science. all these countries i hunted in, piers, all across africa, all across central asia, they put these programs. i'm a member of a group of people who care enough to put their money where their mouth is. now, as far as celebrating the hunt? piers, i didn't -- look at it. i grew up very, very poor in

poverty, piers. okay? when i went hunting as a child it was my granddad and my dad. we looked at hunting as a sell brags and camaraderie together a special time together. i understand these people don't understand it. they didn't grow up that way, okay. piers, just like the gun thing, you've been attacked just the way i am about your views of guns, okay? and we're human beings, both you and i. i don't think you should be hated because you believe that. i don't think i should be hated because i lead my life a certain way. they're threatening my childrens, periods. they're threatening to kill me. the fbi is alerted. the las vegas s.w.a.t. team is on alert. i have security going ever pywhe i go. that's the hate i'm dealing with. >> has the reaction, however well-reasoned or unreasoned, has the venom of the reaction and the amount of the reaction made you think twice about going through with this? >> it hasn't made me think twice, but piers, to be honest,

100% i had no idea thought would be this visceral. i had no idea that they would be attacking my 2-year-old daughter and my 7-year-old daughter and my beautiful young wife, and they want to kill us all and burn us and make a "saw" movie out of us, piers. these are the type of things that i'm getting, okay? now look, you can say what you want to say about hunting and say what you want to say about me and say it's an egotistical thing. it's not. it's a belief system, a belief in conservation for me, piers. that's what it is. and you have a belief about firearms, about a lot of things. i respect your belief. man, if i was right there, piers, i'd hug you, okay? i'm a good human being. just because i have a different belief than them, i don't hate them. i respect them. it's just like bob barker. he said what he said about it, all right? and bob, he's a well-intended person. he would not say these things about killing my kids, all right? but i want to learn about "the price is right" and i want to

learn about plinko i'll talk to bob barker. if i want to learn about conservation i'm going to defer to the experts at the iucn and cides. all the hate talking about, the one thing i will say to bob barker is, the price was wrong. the contribution would have been much higher and everybody would have been much better for it, even up to $1 million, they scared these people away because they didn't want to go through what i'm going through now. these are big -- they're wealthy people. they have employees. they have to care about them. and they want to be a part of it. and so they've actually made the price and the whole thing point of this go lower. if i had more money at the time i'd have given them. >> listen, corey, i appreciate you coming on the show tonight to give your side of it. it is a debate that is raging. i urge people to study the debate in detail as i did today. because there are arguments on both sides. and you have people on your side, i know. i've read that argument, too.

i think the point i would end with is simply having looked at the reaction, a lot of it is geared to the trophy picture. people do not like the idea of celebrating the slaughter of endangered species in the way that you have done before and clearly intend to do again with this black rhino. and i would think if i was in your position i would rethink -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> slaughter is a hard word. slaughter is not a word, that's not a fair comment at all, piers. okay? >> murder? >> no. what do you say when you're eating a steak, piers? do you say it was murdered, slaughtered, killed? these animals were killed the same way. >> corey, here's the difference. we all eat food every day. we don't all go and deliberately target endangered species. >> piers, if i enjoyed killing i'd work at the chicken plant. okay? i would. i'd sit there and kill things all day. it's not about enjoying killing.

it's about a way of as hunters. it's about conservation. i put my money where my mouth is. say what you want, my friend, i put my money where my mouth is. bob barker, the rest of them, they could have gone down there and spent more money, couldn't they? they didn't. >> corey, you're clearly determined to do this. and it's an interesting discussion. please come back when you have gone through with this and we can discuss the reaction to what happens. >> piers, i'd love for you to come with me. >> there is not a cat in hell's chance of doing that. >> okay. no problem. i appreciate you having me on, piers. thank you. >> corey knoll ton, thank you very much. when we come back, john mccain is outraged about benghazi and says hillary clinton should be held accountable. rudy giuliani why he says clinton should learn from chris christie. [ male announcer ] here's a question for you: where does the united states get most of its energy?

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senator john mccain is outraged in the benghazi attack that took the life of four americans including ambassador chris stephens. this new report that's come out makes it absolutely crystal clear that the attack in benghazi was likely preventable. who do you hold ultimately responsible for this? who is to blame? >> well, of course the secretary of state and ultimately the president of the united states. members of the state department and others who were involved in this really unusual set of circumstances that not only led to the deaths of these four brave americans, but the events afterwards which were basically a coverup. but this bipartisan intelligence committee report clearly says the state department. and hillary clinton was the secretary of state. and i think it's very

unfortunate that in testimony before the foreign relations committee which i was there at time when she said who cares? and a lot of people care. and we still haven't been able to find out all the facts. >> when you actually get into the weeds of this pretty lengthy report, it also is very clear that one of the people who may be most to blame for not reacting to the threat and for increasing security despite being urged to repeatedly was the ambassador himself. and obviously you don't want to speak ill of a man who was killed in such appalling circumstances. but is it fair to also say that he as the ambassador should have done more to react to direct warnings that he was given on numerous occasions? >> well, i think it's important to point out that he had asked for additional assistance. what he turned down was additional military assistance. but he certainly sounded a number of warnings about the deteriorating situation,

including ten terrorist organizations that were right there in benghazi. so i think that christopher stephens, chris was very aware of the threat. he did make the state department aware of that. and the only time he really turned down help was when it was a uniform military assistance that was offered. >> we've talked before many times about the catalyst for this attack. and it was driven very hard by the republicans, i think you were included in this, that this was nothing to do with the video that caused all the other problems in the middle east, it was all to do with a deliberate planned attack. if you read this report very carefully, that does not seem to have been established by the facts that they've un-earthed. they in fact say look it was probably a reaction to the owe protests going on about the video, and it was a collection of groups, including some al qaeda affiliates and other local terror organizations spontaneously really reacting to all the aggravation going on

elsewhere in the middle east. do you not accept that? >> of course not. and that's not the way i read the report, nor the facts as i know it. you can't have a spontaneous attack with mortars and rocket-propelled grenades. i mean, that's just a fundamental fact of life. second of all, there has been outright denial on the part of the administration that there was any al qaeda-affiliated groups. there obviously were. in the definition of the defenders, unless you're on the pakistan-afghan border you're not al qaeda. well, they identify themselves as al qaeda, they get direction from al qaeda, and they act like al qaeda. so therefore, i think they're al qaeda. third of all, i think very clear that there was no spontaneous demonstration. and that makes it clear. there was no hateful video that had any effect. and that's clear in that report. and i'll have to look -- match readings with you. but there was no spontaneous demonstration.

and that was the testimony of the survivors, of which we've only seen one. but i say in all due respect, piers, it's clear from this report thought was al qaeda-affiliated groups number one, and number two, it was not sparked by a video. the video had nothing to do with it. >> well, i think if you study the report -- and i'm sure that you have, senator, i wouldn't question at all your authority on this -- but if you study it and i've read the "new york times" report into the report itself, they sort of suggest that while it may not have been a direct result of the video, they were using all the other protests around the video as an excuse, as a catalyst to cause trouble themselves. i mean, could that be the case without it being directly we are protesting about a video but we are capitalizing on other protests around the region? >> i think that flies in the face again of the facts. the facts are that they had set off an i.e.d. outside the wall. they had attacked the british ambassador. they had attacked the

international red cross. the british had withdrawn, the icrc had withdrawn. and all of these things were happening long before there was a video. so it's clear that the violence had dramatically escalated long before there was a video. and there was ample warnings of an impending attack. >> let's take the position of hillary clinton. i want to compare it, if i may, to the position of governor chris christie. because here you have two people, both of whom insist they have no knowledge of what they are suggested to have had knowledge of. if you esteem that they're both telling the truth, and they genuinely had no direct knowledge, should they both be treated the same? in the sense yes, take responsibility. but perhaps not be directly accused of having blame? >> well, first of all, i think it's important to note that chris christie fired people. there's been not one single person involved in this whole --

and one was a bridge problem. this was obviously a far more serious event in benghazi. as serious as bridgegate was. and not one single individual has been punished for all of the problems that resulted in the deaths of these four brave americans. i think that's a huge difference, don't you? >> well, i think the bridgegate as it turned out may not have directly cost lives but it could have done. we could have been in a position. >> and people got fired. >> right. >> people got fired, piers. nobody's gotten fired from the state department. >> i accept that point. and i think that's a very valid point to make. >> thank you. >> i want to end on a slightly lighter note, the "washington post" picked up on your i think very charming tendency to be very effusive in your praise of a number of people that you work with using the phrase "i'm a great admirer." they actually found i think about 28 examples of you using that exact phrase. >> going back about seven years,

yes. >> right. we've got four we wanted to play you before i get your reaction. >> thank you. thank you very much for embarrassing me, piers. >> i'm a great admirer of secretary gates. i'm a great admirer of governor christie. i'm a great admirer of the speaker. i'm a great admirer of charles. >> now first of all, i'm feeling a bit left out. there's no record of you saying that about me. >> i won't say that about you. i will change my -- i will expand my descriptive language when i admire someone. and i admit that i probably use the same phrase too often. i plead guilty, piers. but i'll never say that about you. >> well, that's really devastating i've got to say. i'm going to have to leave it there, senator. thank you very much. >> all right, my friend. thanks for having me on. i enjoyed the discussion. thanks. i'm a great admirer of yours as you know. [ laughter ] d his new boss toldm two things --

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i was born here. i was raised here. i'm raising my family here. and this is where i intend to spend the rest of my life. and whatever test they put in front of me, i will meet those tests because i'm doing it on your behalf. >> governor chris christie today at the jersey shore. meanwhile, 20 subpoenas were issued in bridgegate, including christie's chief of staff kevin o'doud, chief counsel charlie mckenna, spokesman -- and fired

aide. joining me now the former mayor across the bridge, rudy giuliani. how are you? >> i'm good. nice to talk to you again. >> it's been months since you've been on the show. >> yes. >> welcome back. happy new year. let's talk chris christie. >> first let me begin by saying i'm a great admirer of john mccain. [ laughter ] >> i think we're all great admires of john mccain. the great thing is he's a great admirer from everybody apart from me. that probably is about the right way it should be. let's talk about chris christie. i've been a great admirer of chris christie for a long time. he's clearly facing i would argue his biggest political challenge so far. how is he doing in this scandal, do you think, and what are the big pitfalls going ahead? >> i mean, there's only one big pitfall going ahead. that is is he telling the truth? i believe that he is. i think the facts indicate that he is. but that's the pitfall, right? the reality is, this was a stupid mistake. it was a dumb thing to do.

it was probably something he didn't want to happen. but he has handled it about as well as a leader can handle it. the good part of this for chris is, he's getting a chance to demonstrate how he would handle failure, which after all could happen to him if he were president of the united states. he could have a situation like the president had with benghazi. he could have a situation like the president had with the irs targeting all those right-wing groups. chris, rather than what the president did, which is to hide, not answer questions, not hold anybody accountable, did exactly the opposite. as senator mccain indicated, he fired the people responsible, and he held a 1 1/2 hour press conference in which he opened himself up for any question and gave very direct answers. he gave the answers detfinitivey he didn't know. he didn't say i can't recall, i can't remember, it could have happened, i'm not sure. it's awhile ago. he gave very direct answers. i wrote a book on leadership.

i would say this fits right in the lessons i would give someone about leadership. >> what is the difference, though, i put this question to john mccain. he said it was because hillary clinton hasn't fired anybody. what is the difference in terms of ultimate responsibility between hillary clinton saying, look, what happened in benghazi was terrible, should never have happened, i take responsibility because the buck stops with me but it's not my fault. i didn't know anything about this. and chris christie really saying exactly the same thing. why are republicans supportive of chris christie while reserving the right to hammer hillary clinton for what many would argue is the same position politically? >> well, i think there's another very critical difference. hillary clinton has not spent an hour and a half in front of the press answering questions about this. the one time she was questioned about it she got very indig than the, very angry, said it didn't make any difference and answered no questions about it. and the president of the united states has answered no questions about it. we don't know what he was doing during that critical period when

decisions were being made that led to the deaths of four americans. we don't know if she ever received any of these requests for security that had been going on for six months beforehand, and now we have a senate report saying the event could have been prevented. so chris christie has answered questions comprehensively about this. hillary clinton has not opened herself up for those kinds of questions, nor has president obama. i think that's a very big difference. >> what is interesting is that as the new nbc news marist national poll, january 12th of 2014, choice of president in 2016 it was in december 48% to clinton, 45% christie in a hypothetical matchup. it's now 50% clinton, 37% christie. what people are saying is look, the reason why the republicans are rampaging away at hillary clinton about benghazi is to try and distract attention from chris christie because the guy

who may well be the best person to lead that race in 2016 is getting fatly damaged here. >> i don't think he's being fatally damaged. i don't think it's fatal. i think he has an opportunity through demonstration of leadership to show how he would handle things. i see chris christie's handling this the way john kennedy handled the bay of pig, in contrast to the way obama handled the irs scandal when they focused on the right wing groups. he took responsibility, held people accountable, moved forward and changed things. president obama has run away, 100%, answers no questions about the irs scandal, is hiding. we could do the same thing with the nsa, we could do the same thing with benghazi. i see chris christie handling is the way johnson & johnson handled the tylenol thing. americans ultimately admire that. they admire when someone takes accountability, takes action, and also opens themselves up for comprehensive questioning, no holds barred, not hiding behind

lawyers, not getting angry and yelling what difference does it make and not doing like a showcase. so i think this will ultimately help him. and also, i think the reason for the excessive amount of attention to chris christie is exactly what you said. he seems to be right now the only republican who can contest with hillary clinton. now, that may change. because there are a lot of good republicans out there that i think have a chance of beating hillary clinton. but i think there's a certain amount of partisan venom involved in going after chris christie. it's not accidental over the past four or five months, the only republican who has ever been ahead of hillary in a poll is chris christie. all of a sudden, bridgegate becomes more important than anything else. last week on "meet the press" it took up 26 minutes of "meet the press." so you can't tell me that there isn't a certain amount of partisan venom on the other side. >> have you spoken to him at all since this crisis unfurled? >> i have, yes. i've had a very good conversation with him going over

a lot of this, yes. >> what did you say to him? >> that's between him and me. pretty much what i've said to you. i think i told him the things that i thought he handled right, i gave him some advice from my own experience. but he's also, i should tell you, a good friend for many years. i was a good friend of his when he was u.s. attorney. i was actual lit first republican outside of the state of new jersey to endorse him. as i was the first republican to endorse marco rubio outside of the state of florida. so i have a few friends that are potential republican nominees, jeb bush, paul ryan, a lot of good people. i don't see chris as the only one. but i do defend chris, because number one, i think he's handled this correctly. and number two, i do think there's a certain amount of partisan motivation in the way this things has been pushed. >> you defended him very vehemently and well tonight. i want to end this very quickly and briefly if i may. get a quick response to this. it's harvey weinstein a movie

producer went on howard stern yesterday and said this about guns. >> i don't think we need guns in this country. and i hate it. and i think the nra is a disaster area, and i'm going to actually make a movie. i shouldn't say this but i'll tell it to you, howard. i'm going to make a movie with meryl streep and we're going to take this issue head on. and they're going to wish they weren't alive after i'm done with them [ laughter ] >> probably the strongest words against the nra i've heard. what is your reaction to that? >> the nra is pretty strong. i think they can handle that that. harvey was my publisher of my book "leadership" he's also my friend. i don't agree with him on this issue of guns. but that will be a fair competition between harvey who's one of the most powerful people in hollywood and the nra which is one of the strongest organizations in the united states. >> well, it will be a good fight. that's for sure. mr. mayor, it's been a great joy talking to you. i can point out to viewers i've got harvey weinstein on the show for tomorrow night. >> and you should have the nra

on. also put the second amendment on which might be the real answer to all this. >> well, let me just repeat to the nra, because i have repeatedly invited all their top executives and they have remained gutless cowards so far. >> i would be my advice for them to come on. they do have the second amendment on their side. so they can defend themselves pretty well. >> they have warped and twisted interpretation of the second amendment on their side. >> i don't know about that. >> i think the phrase you were looking for. it's been great talking to you. come back soon. >> nice to talk to you, piers. coming up next, new year new you. dave ramsey is here to tell you five things you need to do to make your money work for you. ♪

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target is e-mailing customers to let them know they're offering a year of free credit monitoring after a security breach including credit and debit card numbers of millions of customers. it's crucial to stay on top of your finances. dave ramsey the host of the dave ramsey show and author of "the total money makeover" will be answering your questions tonight. dave ramsey, welcome. how are you? >> i'm better than i deserve, piers. how are you? >> i would share that view, actually, about myself. look, there's some signs of economic recovery since i last spoke to you. unemployment level rate is at the lowest level in five years. but according to a gallup poll out this week, 42% of americans say they are financially worse off now than they were a year ago. why is that? >> well, to start with, i'm not sure they know. some 90% of americans don't do a budget or a financial plan, so i'm not sure how they would

measure whether they're worse off. i'm congestion they're just kind of gauging their feeling about their life in a lot of cases. if you actually are worse off, it probably isn't a real estate market that's still struggling. a lot of the real estate markets have heated back up and are doing very well, but there's a few of them still having a really hard time. >> you've come up with these five top money mistakes that people constantly make. i want to go through these quickly one by one. money mistake number one. not having an emergency fund. clarify that. >> well, absolutely. you need to have financial planners have said for years and coaches like me to have three to six months of expenses set aside for when it rains. i grew up in the south, and my mama always said have squirrel money. that's that squirrel putting some stuff away in the summer so he's got some things to eat in the winter. it's going to rain. you're going have down times in your life, and you need money to cover that. whether it's a car wreck, an illness, unemployment, whatever it is, it's going to rain. sometimes folks say, well dave, you need to be positive. i'm positive, it's going to

rain. >> money mistake number two, living on borrowed money. >> your number one wealth-building tool is your income. and when you commit your income completely to someone else, to buy stuff you really don't need with money you don't have, to impress people you really don't like, you've really tied up and killed your ability to build wealth. the average car payment in america right now is $486 over 84 months. if you invest that from age 30 to age 7 0rks you'd have over $5 million in your roth i.r.a. and good mutual fund. hope you like the car. it ties up your ability to build wealth. get out of debt so you can use your income to give and help others and to build your future. >> okay. money mistake number three, not living within a budget. something i guess many people fall foul of. how do you control that temptation? it's a bit like eating too many doughnuts. how do you control it financially? >> well, it's like a lot of other things.

you've got to want to bad enough. you've got to hate where you are bad enough to embrace something that's completely different and outside your comfort zone. we tell folks a budget's really not rocket science. you just need to write it down on paper on purpose and give every dollar a name before the month begins. give every dollar a mission before the month begins. if you work for a company called ewing incorporated and you manage money for them the way you manage money for you now, would you fire you? if the answer's yes then change what you're doing. start putting it on paper on purpose. if you're married be in agreement with your spouse. >> money mistake number four, this is touching on something that warren buffett told me, one of america's richest invests and most successful businessmen. but investing in things you don't understand. he's made it his lifetime mission really to only really invest in stuff that he completely understands. and it's obviously made him very successful and rich. you obviously agree with that? >> well, he's obviously very bright and can understand a lot of things. some of us aren't as bright as

he is. but at the end of the day, the mistake most of us make is we get some guy or gal with a great suit and they have a great talk, and we get a little bit intimidated and forget that it's our money. and somehow we're going to park our money with one of these folks. and they're going to take care of us and babysit our money in a lot of cases they don't even really know what they're doing. so you really have to understand it's your job to manage your money. i was meeting with a group of professional athletes a while back. one of them said dave i've got a man. i said you've got a man? he goes yeah i got a man that takes care of of my money. i said you're going to be one of those stories of broke professional athletes. you need to learn what your money is going into or you're going it end up with nothing. >> final one, money mistake number five, need a quick answer to that. being bad at relationships. >> well, it's amazing how much relationships are an indicator for your ability to build wealth. your opportunities in your career and on the income side of the equation come through whether people like you and

whether they connect to you and whether you're good to people and whether you have integrity. and one of the biggest indicators for married couples is can they work together? can you and your spouse agree on your dreams for the future? can you agree on even some of your fears and start to put some of those behind you by having a game plan? can you agree on the sacrifices we're going to make to have a great and a beautiful and wonderful future? and so learning to relate with others and deal with other people well is actually a very big indicator of future about to build wealth. >> okay. the top five money mistakes that people make. after the break, a happy story involving a couple who got more than $140,000 of debt -- out of that debt thanks to you, dave ramsey. we'll have them and we'll have you. they did anytiit in 29 months. quite remarkable. [ grunts softly ]

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all right. count it down, $142,000 in 29 months paid off. let's hear a debt free scream. >> three, two, one, we're debt free! >> they're awesome. they are absolutely awesome. >> chad and ashley from amari o amarillo, texas, join me now along with dave himself. chad and ashley, quite a remarkable achievement. you managed to pay off $142,000 in 29 months. what was it that dave told you

that really helped you do this? >> he taught us how to communicate and how to budget. he really lays a plan out step by step on what you need to do to succeed with your money and to get out of debt. >> absolutely. it's common sense. >> what was it that you were doing wrong as a couple that dave corrected in your heads and enabled you to start saving money? >> well, the shorter answer would be what we were doing right as a couple at that time. we were basically doing everything wrong money wise. we handled all of our finances separately. and there was a lot of mistrust. and so we were falling apart quite literally. dave ramsey and financial peace university definitely saved our marriage. >> absolutely. >> so dave, there's a classic

example of being bad in relationships, money mistake number five, where if you don't get that part of it right, very difficult to come to a consensus as a family about what to do properly. when you looked at their story, what are the key issues you felt needed to be very quickly remedied? >> i think ashley touched on it. respect they a great couple? they're just incredible. >> they're very happy thanks to you. >> absolutely. >> they made the decisions. but they said hey, what we're doing is not working. we have to try something new. we've separated everything. we're basically roommates. so we have to get on one budget and have some shared goals from the future. they remembered their vows when the preacher said, and now you are one. he didn't pronounce them as a joint venture. >> dave, i wanted to talk to you briefly about the four myth

busting truths about money. number one, millionth or truth, credit cards are safer than debit cards. dave? >> we hear all the time that debit cards are not as safe as credit cards. a debit card has two possible uses. one, you can enter your pin and it's acting like an atm card or you can run it as a visa or mastercard. if you run it as a visa or mastercard, it's treated exactly as a credit card. it has the same protections when used as a credit card. >> save for retirement first and kid's college second. >> that would be the truth. as parents, we love our kids and want them to have a better life. but we have a tendency to say i'm going to put the kids ahead of me and save for college before retirement. assuming you live 100% of the time, you are going to retire. not 100% of the team attend

college, and there are other ways to get a kid through college other than just a college fund. college savings is very important, but retirement is very, very important. >> so that's a truth. number three, myth or truth, a high credit score means i'm doing everything right with my money, myth or truth? >> that would be a myth. we've got a whole culture that worships at the altar of the great fico. somebody says i have an 800 credit score. what that means is they've borrowed a lot of money and paid it back. the only thing that causes your score to be big is to borrow money and repay it. it doesn't measure your income or net worth, it doesn't measure your savings or any of that. all it says is you've been playing kissy face with the bank a lot. >> number four, finally, don't talk to kids about money too early. it will scare them. myth or truth? >> well, that would be a myth.

unless you're going to be crazy or something. of course talk to your kids about money. teach little johnny to clean up his room and sally to help do the dishes and team them to work. if you don't teach kids how to handle money, they'll live in your basement when they're 32. >> i want to go back to ashley and chad now. you're a great success story. what is the single best thing about being debt free, having spent so many years riddled with debt as a couple would you say? >> it's so much less stressful. there's so much peace that comes along with being out of debt. we don't owe anybody anything. we keep all the money that we make. all the money that was going to banks for 29 months we spent every dime we had to pay off that debt and focus on that single goal. and now it just feels really good to get to work for ourselves and make it. >> and to do what we're doing right now. what we're doing right now, to

be able to lead other people down this path is the greatest blessing that could have come from this. financial peace and marital healing, those are the joys of our hearts, absolutely. and to have a firm platform to stand on now and say we were there, we screwed it up. we messed it up bigtime. but look at what we were able to accomplish. >> what would you both say to dave ramsey given he's been instrumental in wiping out this debt? >> oh, man, he's our hero, no doubt about it. we read everything he writes, we listen to his show all the time. he's a great man, and just a testament to that, when we up there to do our debt free scream, he talks about serving people and those were the nicest people that you could have been around. >> he's one of the smartest guys on money in the country. we should end this with a debt

free scream just for my show. >> three, two, one -- we're debt free! >> jop and ashley and dave ramsey, thank you very much indeed. >> thank you so much. >> thank you, piers. i take prilosec otc each morning for my frequent heartburn.

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that's all for us tonight. tomorrow night, harvey weinstein versus the nra. "ac 360 later" starts now. welcome to "ac 360 later." tonight, breaking news in the bridge scandal. also, hillary clinton. dr. ruth talks sex and i'm going to blush and we talk about the oscars. join the conversation. we'll show you comments at the bottom of the screen. with us tonight, jeffrey toobin.