blood for the party, you're a republican hero. i'd do it again in a heart beat. >> yeah, yeah, except he changed his mind a few heart beats later. he was announcing he was going to have it removed. to tell you the truth, i don't believe the guy with the seahawks tattoo will go the same route. always nice to see permanent optimism on the "ridiculist." thanks for watching. "piers morgan live" starts now. >> welcome to "piers morgan live." i have an interview for the man who paid $350,000 for the chance to runt and kill a black rhino. >> i'm a hunter, i want to hunt a rhino, i want to be there and be a part of it. >> tonight we continue that debate with a man who says it's not okay. what happened when the hunter becomes the hunted?

plus harvey weinstein, we'll ask him why he thinks he can beat the nra when even the president can't? and some unusual advice about how to survive a scandal like bridgegate. >> there may not be any dots to connect, but in people's minds, this is kind of christie-like, in the kind of way that it was done. begin with the big story, a big man in hollywood taking on the might of the nra. he earned 11 nominations, eight golden globe, ten critics choice and seven screen actors guild nominations. but harvey weinstein is in the planning stages for something that has the nra up in arms. congratulations on your nominations and all the awards. you've now had 331 nominations for the oscars alone, 78 wins in

your time at miramax and the weinstein company. >> sounds good to me. >> extraordinary. >> i was a baseball player. can you imagine the amount of money i could have had? a-rod and jeter together. >> you are the best awards campaigner i've ever encountered. >> can't anybody just say that i have the best movies? >> they could. let's turn to guns, because there was a really fascinating interview with howard stern. i want to play a clip for viewers who are not up to speed with this. this is from what you told howard. >> i don't think we need guns in this country. and i hate it, and i think the nra is a disaster area and i'm going to make a movie, i shouldn't say this, but i'll tell it to you, howard. i'm going to make a movie with meryl streep and take this issue head on and they're going to wish they weren't alive after i'm done with them. >> big words. not many people in america, in high profile positions have directly challenged the nra.

i've been beseeching people to do this. i'm delighted you're going to publicly take them on, the leadership, not the membership. why do you do this? why do you care so passionately? >> it's funny. all the past school massacres that i read about in the newspaper, columbine, aurora, we feel deeply for four or five days, and then we get on with our lives. we say let's fight for gun control, let's do something about it. you know, when sandy hook and newtown happened, 20 minutes away from where i live with my kids. whatever. i watched your shows all during that time period. when it's in your backyard, you cannot ignore it. i mean, i've done a good job of feeling sympathetic for it over the years, but i've done also a good job of ignoring it and saying that's somebody else's fight. and then i met the giffords and,

you know, they're amazing. gabby and mark. and just incredible to me what they've done and what mayor bloomberg has done. >> what is it, what is the relationship culturally between americans and guns? it's unique to anywhere in the world, certainly within the 23 richest countries. >> i have an english wife and a very, very english mother-in-law and english father-in-law. and you keep hearing about these stories in your own country of england of how the cops don't have guns all the time. i'm not advocating that the police don't have guns, but just that it's not part of the culture. here it's become, you know, because it's such a prevalent industry, it's led by business. it's not let by our advocation. yes, i think there should be hunting and all the other things, but the fact that a kid can get an ak-47, it's got to be

regulated. and the hunters and the people who use guns legitimately will have no problem with that. the nra's argument is that they're mentally unstable. i have no problem with let's tighten up the laws and try to help and educate the people too, but it's in my backyard now and it's not something, you know, as much as i want to ignore it and go on with my regular life, i can't shake it this time. >> what more can you tell me about the movie and meryl streep's involvement? >> you know, first of all, if all the people who are pro guns are mad at me, meryl streep is an actress, i want to make that clear. and she's working as somebody playing a part. so it's not her belief and all the heat should come my way, and i'm kind of used to the heat anyhow. >> are you nervous about taking on the nra? many politicians have been cowered into abject silence, not following their conscience, but you're sticking your head above the para pit. does that worry you?

>> no. because i've seen what happens. it's only about money, like everything else in the united states. when bloomberg and giffords raised enough money, they beat the nra in three states. so all of a sudden it's money. if there are good-minded people like jeffrey katzenberg, or silicon valley, where there's money, you can beat these people. so i'm not worried. it's a money game. you know, and we can raise the money. the movie will be an entertainment. the movie will be entertaining, but just, i think the anticipation for the movie, the best thing for the film, and i know a lot of people don't know that word. >> you do. >> i polished up. but it's mr. smith goes to washington. it's about a senator who faces them. you know what i mean? and has to deal with that.

meryl streep will be that senator. >> brilliant. >> and i think it's that story and i will tell you, piers, we've been friends and i've been influenced by your shows during that week. it was astounding. and also, i know the president well, and i've never seen him ever, i think he was in a state of shock and regret and i think the frustration that they've had, sometimes i know it's crazy, but you wish a bill could just pass without all that in-fighting in washington. sometimes a movie carries the day. we did "my left foot," an example, years ago. got a phone call, this was in the days when people talked to each other. senator harkin and senator robert dole, liberal, conservative, both great guys. we're having problems with the handicap access bill. can you get daniel day lewis to come to washington, d.c. and

speak on the floor of the senate? i told daniel, this bill is hanging by a few votes. we've got a republican and we've got a liberal democrat. can we do this in a bipartisan way, daniel? and he went to washington and by a few votes there's handicap access. so i know the power of what a movie can do. because a movie can galvanize a country. >> let's get to the instant kickback you've been receiving from all quarters. i'm sure you expected this. ted nugent was hot off the blocks. i know that god is inspiring the sub human punk weinstein to create what is going to be the most powerful promotional tool for the nra because people are smarter than he acknowledges. the washington times, a scathing piece, stop production of the multimillion dollar effort to mer suede americans to give up guns. look at the hospital books of what happens when you do. a dig there about the fact that you're jewish and the history with the nazis.

putting that to one side and i'm sure you expected all that, let's talk about the main allegation against you, will be hip ok rasy. you've produced violent movies, jiangy unchained, pullm fiction and others. people say, when are you guys in the movies going to stop glamorizing guns, if you mean this so sincerely? >> i think they have a point. you have to look in the mirror too. i have to just choose movies that aren't violent or as violent as they used to be. i know for me personally, i can't continue to do that. so the chain starts here. it has already. >> that's a big statement to make. because these are very successful films. >> but for me, i can't do it. i can't make one movie and say this is what i want for my kids and then just go out and be a hypocrite. >> do you want to make any more movies glamorizing guns? >> i think some of them -- i don't think you see a movie like

"lone survivor," it's sensational, a tribute to the united states special forces. i would make that movie in a second. there's action scenes all over the place. people get killed in the movie. that's one thing. >> but not a movie that could be accused of glamorizing the use of guns for no sake? >> i'm not going to make a crazy action movie to blow up people just for the sake of making it. but i understand the criticism and i'm not playing any more ted nugent music. i'm not kidding. first of all, i've always liked ted nugent and i'll end up having a beer with him and go to the washington times guy -- >> his point is it's his constitutional right to have guns. >> right. >> that's the way the nra will frame this debate. do you think that's a fair thing for people to stand behind, that they have this constitutional right? >> i would imagine there's got to be some way of judging someone's mental capacity before

they have a gun. you know, the kid in connecticut doesn't need to have a gun. so i think there's ways to legislate it, so that ted nugent if he's a hunter, if he has a legitimate reason and it's protection, and he's of sound body and mind, why not? >> president obama, you're a good friend of his. you've been a big supporter and campaigner for him. i remember how emotional and passionate he was after newtown. i remember him telling the families, i will get action on gun control. to date he's failed to achieve any action on gun control, not even background checks. why is that? >> he hasn't failed. he keeps pressing it. honestly, there's a congress that's stalled and even democrats are stalled. you know, the national rifle association is an incredible organization that infiltrates the system. i believe that what mark and gabby and mayor bloomberg and the bloomberg foundation are doing is, the fight begins now.

you have to fight somebody on their own terms. you can't fight a bunch of congressmen who are being lobbied and get a lot of their election bills paid for. it's not easy to be in the congress. a lot of time you're just dialing for dollars with the way the election laws work in this country. these guys are on the phone saying, i've got to run $10 million worth of tv spots and the nra is always helpful to these guys. bloomberg foundation is also there to be helpful and other people are there to be helpful, maybe they vote their conscience, and not just dollars. obama's a hero. it's just when you face an enemy like that, that you can't move. it's like going into quick stand. but i see a light at the end of the tunnel. i saw john boehner going against the tea party, and it looked like he had a twinkle in his eye. it looked like they're realizing they're not in touch with the american public and they're just

going to lose more and more elections. >> i'm four square behind you, time somebody at least tried to take on the nra and their strangle hold over american politicians. >> me and meryl? got a certain ring to it. >> don't ask me for first billing. i know you're capable of asking me for that, but please don't. >> i'm capable of doing it, never mind asking you for it. let's take a short break. also michelle obama turns 50 today, and at the same time, we see four of the five best actors over 50. is this a renaissance? is the older woman cool now in hollywood and politics? you're the man to ask, harvey. you like an older lady.

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. >> what to say to a indian. >> they're called native

americans, mom. >> who makes that decision? >> they aren't any more native than me. >> in fact, they are. >> why don't you call people what they want to be called. >> let's just called the dinosaurs native americans while we're at it. >> they've earned to nominations, proof positive it's a banner year for women over 40. back with me is harvey weinstein. before we get into the movie, michelle obama turns 50 today, looking pretty spectacular, has to be said. like i said before the break, at a time when most of the best actress nominations have gone to women over 40 as well. what does that tell us? >> look at the box office. judi dench, meryl streep, and maggie smith are 100% certified box office stars. every time i have a movie with any one of those three, we do fantastic. i give meryl the credit, she was the forerunner of them all.

mamma mia did $600 million around the world. incredible. and devil wears prada -- >> has there ever been a greater movie star than meryl streep? >> never been a greater actress than meryl streep. 18 nominations. she broke the record with this one. can there ever be a nicer person? no. even though she's chased me and george clooney around the set a few times. deservedly so. >> you have a hard life, don't you? >> yes, very difficult to be trapped been meryl and julia on a daily basis. >> what's it like to direct really two of the greatest actresses of all time. >> you're not trying to tell them how to act. i always describe it much more like you're a conductor of a wonderful orchestra, trying to make sure it sounds like what you want it to sound like. they're looking to you to tell them how it's going to fit in

with everything else that's going on. >> are you proud of this brand destroying thing that you've created? >> she's wonderful in the film. it's a difficult part. i would say, tracy let su wrote the piece, won the pulitzer prize for it. he showed it roughly based on his grandmother. when he asked his mother to read it, he was nervous about it. after she finished reading it, she looked at him and said, oh, son, you were very kind to my mother. [ laughter ] >> i would have to say that she's much nicer than my grandmother. i think many of us have mepeopl in our families who are complicated that we love and also hate and desperately wish we could figure out a way to get away from. >> i got to tell you the story of why i did this movie. my mother, and i've told this john, every passover, every hanukkah, every christmas, you name the holiday, these two

would get in the room, sit across from each other, the two stories, plates would fly. [ laughter ] . >> i thought i was going to grow up to be an interior director, because i had more furniture flying. and then the most amazing thing. after four hours of a slug fest, you did this, you're better to mom, you're better to grandma. grown men are ducking. they'll enjoy this movie because they'll realize their family is just as crazy. >> i can tell you it's exactly the same in the irish-catholic families. just quickly, on the oscars generally, a lot of talk about people being snubbed, tom hanks, robert redford, oprah winfrey and others. my take, there's been a lot of good movies this year. they couldn't all get nominated. is that an accurate way of looking at it, or have people genuinely been snubbed? >> i'll raise my hand on oprah because lee daniels' the butler

was our film. there's always a problem with the oscars. you forget. it's always the movies that open later in the year that get all the excitement and the heat. so i made the decision to go in august. the movie did $116 million. but more importantly, here's the first movie and a lot of it is because of oprah, did $60 million in france. this will be a black directed film with a black cast that will do close to $100 million. >> you were with her last night. is she upset? >> not in the slightest. she will bounce back. i'm trying to find another role for her right away. she's had ups and downs. she's had a fantastic life -- >> and she's great in the movie. >> she's great. and that's more the date i released it than oprah winfrey. but all the awards groups that came out early, she got nominated, even a british academy award, so this is just a

matter of timing. >> you directed george clooney on er, did he give you any tips? now you're getting into this and being successful. >> he was very helpful. he produced a film with grant hes love and we had a lot of conversations about it. but it came down to just talking about the material. one of the things we were talking earlier about our family stories, one of the things that's wonderful about the film, when you see it, and we saw this through the testing of the film and now that we're showing it, people at the end are talking about their own families and what we spent a lot of time talking about with george and meryl was our own families. >> this is probably the biggest question i have for you in this entire interview, which is, can you confirm or deny what amy poll early and tina fey were trying to allege at the golden globes? watch this. >> am i done? >> don't you talk to me like that. do you want to go live with your father. >> i can't. you won't tell me who he is. >> well, he's here tonight.

so look around. >> mom! is it him? >> no, randy. idris elba is thot your father. think about it. >> is it him? [ laughter and applause ] >> well, come on, harvey, are you amy poehler's secret father, yes or no? >> well, i dealt with georgina and i had to teller had the truth and tina and i were drunk one night, coming home from 30 rock, she thought i was alec baldwin, and i didn't ruin that for her, and it was -- yes. >> they are great hosts, aren't they, those two? the ratings were way up again. >> they are spectacular and nobody does it better or funnier. >> let's take a short break and talk about your other big movie, philomena. because we have the real-life philomena coming to join us. very exciting. >> thank you. our future.

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i was going to ask you, if it would be possible not to use my real name when you write the story. maybe you could call me nancy. i've always loved that name. i i have a niece called nancy. although maybe they'll think it's her. what about ann? >> we're going to have to use your real name, philomena, that's the way things work. >> joining me now is the real-life inspiration for the movie. back with me is harvey

weinstein. it's lovely to meet you. how do you feel watching judi dench play you in a hollywood movie? did you ever think this could happen to you? >> did i ever? never in my wildest dreams ever thought that judi dench, which i've always admired and watched all her james bond, everything. judi dench. when i actually told my friends about it, they were -- they thought i was going a bit -- >> there's a lot of controversy about the way he's alleged to have portrayed the catholic church. people getting agitated about it. you're irish catholic, i am too. what's your feeling, that it makes the catholic church look bad deliberately? >> when i started out, the only thing i started out was to find anthony, to tell my story, as it

w was, as it happened, a completely true story. nothing against it. because i'm still a catholic. and the times, in the '50s, my mother died when i was 6, and i was put into a con vent school in lindbergh. i still believe in being a catholic and -- >> it's a very powerful and moving story, your story. and you try and find your son after all these years and discover that he's already died. but what is particularly poignant is that he, went back and asked to be buried before he died, in the very home where you gave birth to him. >> yes. >> somehow trying to bring himself back to you. >> yes wp when he went back looking for me, he went with his partner. he said, when i die, and he was young then, when i die, will you please bring my ashes back, so

that maybe one day, my mother might find me. so intense and i think from the age of 3 and a half, he did remember me. >> how did that make you feel when you discovered that? >> i couldn't believe it. apparently he had been there nine years before we found out. and the partner brought a picture of when he was buried. sorry. all the staff of the home, he was buried within the grounds and they were all there, the priest from dublin were there. and there was only 95 and had retired by this stage from nursing. so so many things. >> very sad story. >> so the allegation is the nuns who took in your son, ended up selling him to an american couple in boston. >> that's right. >> do you believe that's what happened? >> well, at that time, i was only a young teenager.

i didn't know the ethics of the catholic church or the hierarchy. i just believed everything the nuns told us. but i didn't know they were selling babies. all i knew is i had to stay there until they found him a home. and they did find him a home. i didn't know anything about -- >> but the thing about it is, when she tried to find her son later on, they never gave her the information. and then when her son tried to find her, they never gave her the information, and they burned the records. today, pierce, there's a movement as a result of this movie, and it's not coming from us. it's coming out of ireland. it's coming out of the vatican it's coming everywhere, there are 25,000 of these children like anthony in the united states. they won't give the records. even the irish government won't give the records. so they want to get those. and then there's kids all over the world. so today, as i showed you, the united nations is asking the vatican and today's story, the

united nations is going to ask the vatican to intercede with the church to release the names of these people across the world. and the 25,000 people. "philomena" was at a screening where a woman came up and said, i was with anthony and we don't know who these people are. we don't know what happened to them. >> some say, it's not the first pop at the catholic church. you have an agenda against the catholic church. you're jewish and you don't like catholics. what do you say to that? >> brent bizzel was a conservative columnist who accused me of that and bill o'donahue at the catholic league approximately it's not the first time. you're right, i did the movie "priest," and my mother almost whacked me for that movie. and then five years later in boston, a scandal breaks out, which is exactly the theme of the movie, which is that a

priest was involved in the molestation of a boy. when i made the movie every bad headline you could imagine was raised against me, but it's not an anti-catholic basis. i made the price above rubies and criticized the hasittics. i've been on the side of the palestinians. i'm a story teller. >> you basically let everybody have it, you're a non-discriminating whacker -- >> i tell heroic stories. about a woman like filimena, who finds her way. >> are you taking philomena to the oscars? >> 100%. >> how are you going to feel about that, philomena? imagine being at the oscars on the red carpet. >> i can't believe it. >> i can see you there. >> i can't believe it. >> it's a delight to meet you. and i'm so thrilled for you that your story, which is a very poignant and emotional story, a story of its time and a scandal that went on back in that era in

ireland. it doesn't go on today, we don't think and i have no issue, as a catholic with this being highlighted whatsoever. i think it's important that these things do get exposed and debated and ensure it doesn't happen again. >> this woman has taught us all an amazing lesson about forgiveness. i never thought i'd have it. >> best of luck at the oscars. and harvey, i don't need to wish you luck, you'll probably win a load. good to see you. >> thank you, pierce, as always. when we come back, a man who has outraged people around the world, he paid $350,000 for the right to hunt and kill a black rhino. does anybody think that is okay? helps reduce the risk of heart disease. it seems that 80 is the new 18. grannies, bless your heart, you are bringing sexy back! eat up.

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my interview last night with cory nalton has erupted into a heated debate. he's the hunter who paid $350,000 for the right to hunt and kill a rare black rhino. he came on the show to explain his side. >> how do you justify what you've done? >> i justify it in the name of conversation, my belief system and sustainable youth. i'm educated on the subject, the money is needed. i have a long list of justifications. >> joining me jeff flocken from the international fund for animal welfare and john jackson, who facilitated the auction and asked core toe bid. welcome to both of you. jeff flocken, what was your reaction to the interview with

cory nalton and his justification for what he's doing? >> i would say i strongly disagree. this is a case of a bunch of wealthy americans auctioning off the right to kill a race spees and trying to pass it off as conversation, which couldn't be further from the truth. >> john jackson, you're a supporter of cory nalton, why? >> this is what it's all about, the fundamental principal of conversation, that you have to have revenue and incentivize the local people. it has to be done on a local 4re68. it's disingenuous to suggest it's anything other than a conversation effort. >> what i can't stomach and what enrages so many people is the trophy hunting element of what he does. his facebook pages are covered and littered with pages of him

beaming away celebrating having killed these animals. and he presumably will do the same thing with this rare and dangerous black rhino. isn't that glorifying in the killing that distresses people. why do people need to do that? and why would you go along with that? >> hunters have a special relationship with the animals they pursue. only urnts know the hunting relationship. it's an old relationship. old as mankind. very important one. they know the wildlife they pursue like no one else and they also are the stewards. conversation force, my organization is in the business of using hunting as a force for the conservation of animals. we support what we call conservation hunting, tweaking the hunting program to great revenue and local incentives to save the species. >> in answer to my direct

question, are you comfortable with the prospect of cory nalton posing next to the dead black rhino with a big grin on his face and his weapon of choice to kill it? and then posting that on social media? are you comfortable with that? >> i am. he's the one paying the bill. and this is a way of memorialalizing the experience. it will help refresh the memory about the whole experience. >> okay, jeff flocken, in terms of the validity of a hunter's right to hunt the black rhino, particularly the elderly black rhino who no longer have a breeding use, and who would perhaps be culled anyway certainly seems to be the suggestion and it's not being disputed. what is actually wrong in having it hunted in this particular way, compared to any other way? >> this is the case of a critically endangered species being hunted for trophy.

the message that it's sending the world is that this animal is worth more dead than alive. that's the reason it's in the current crisis it's in. the animal is being poached at a horrific rate for its horn, and the reason it's so valuable is because it's rare. a trophy hunt, they can expect to auction off the right for a wealthy foreigner to kill one is another reason why this animal is worth more dead than alive. >> let me pick you up on that point. if you remove the ugliness of the photographic memory stuff that goes on with social media and stick to the actual killing of this black rhino, which would probably be killed anyway, what is the sensible argument against it? >> well, first of all, there are scientists who can clearly dispute the need to kill this animal. they're saying it's no non-reproductive. it has a place in the social

structure, particularly the dominant older males. additionally, the revenue of african nations is a draw for eco-tourism, which raises millions more than hunting. so the claim that it has to be culled, i'm not buying it. there are many scientists and conservationists who agree with me on this. >> he's not buying it. why is he wrong? >> he's not the expert. the largest conservation body in the world is the expert. there are scientific authorities who determine this is in the best interest of the rhino. the u.s. fish and wildlife services has to make two different determinations. they found that it enhances the survival of the species and it's not detrimental. there is virtually all the

experts, all the leading organizations and the ministry of the namibia have determined this is the best thing to do. >> if cory nalton had a change of mind and said to you, i don't want to kill this black rhino, it's an endangered species, only 5,000 left in the world, i want to keep them all alive, but i will because i'm so dedicated to conserving these animals, i'll give you a check for $350,000 and you can do with it whatever you wish. that would surely be a more preferable state of affairs than having this wealthy american hunter go over there, track it down, kill it, and then pose for his rather ugly trophy photographs. >> the question is, it's best that this rhino be eliminated because it's dangerous to the other animals, the calves and the cows and the young productive bulls. but we'll accept his $350,000. we asked cory to do this for

conservation of the species. he didn't want to do this. we asked him to do it. and we would accept his $350,000. we'll accept anybody's $350,000. we're a public charity and we'll accept any dedicated donation that's sent in. >> okay, will you pose for the picture with him proudly by the dead rhino? >> if he survives the encounter, i'll congratulate him for knowing the rhino as only a hunter can do. >> would you pose with him for the picture if he asked you to? >> i certainly would. >> you would. >> i would. >> i think we both know is the most likely outcome is not that cory won't survive but the rhino won't. thank you very much. reinventing yourself in the spotlight. kennedy cousins, the unexpected advice for beleaguered chris christie. across america people are taking charge

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or diabetic ketoacidosis. victoza® has not been studied with mealtime insulin. victoza® is not insulin. do not take victoza® if you have a personal or family history of medullary thyroid cancer, multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if you are allergic to victoza® or any of its ingredients. symptoms of a serious allergic reaction may include: swelling of face, lips, tongue, or throat, fainting or dizziness, very rapid heartbeat, problems breathing or swallowing, severe rash or itching. tell your doctor if you get a lump or swelling in your neck. serious side effects may happen in people who take victoza®, including inflammation of the pancreas (pancreatitis), which may be fatal. stop taking victoza® and call your doctor right away if you have signs of pancreatitis, such as severe pain that will not go away in your abdomen or from your abdomen to your back, with or without vomiting. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you have any medical conditions. taking victoza® with a sulfonylurea or insulin may cause low blood sugar. the most common side effects

are nausea, diarrhea, and headache. some side effects can lead to dehydration, which may cause kidney problems. if your pill isn't giving you the control you need ask your doctor about non-insulin victoza®. it's covered by most health plans. philomena philom my next guests have been around politics around their entire lives. joining me now, christopher kennedy lawford, also former congressman patrick kennedy. he's the co-founder of the kennedy forum.

welcome to both of you. before we get into the book, which is fascinating and timely in many ways, let's talk about chris christie. no family knows more about political intrigue and scandal and winning and losing elections than your family. patrick, what do you make of this this >> the difficult thing he has is that people think this scandal fits him, and what they know of him. so he's kind of known as a bully who acts kind of intemperamentally. it fits with what people know of him. that's the damage here. there may not be dots to connect, but in people's minds, this is kind of christie-like in the kind of way it was done. >> and you're a new jersey resident. >> i'm a proud jersey resident. >> he's your governor. >> he, is and he's been very good on many things and the reason he got re-elected so

overwhelmingly. but we all have character flaws, and certain things, if they're exposed and stick in the public mind, really stick because of the way people know us. this is the kind of thing, i think, that fits with the guy that people know as governor christie, because he's that kind of guy who is in your face, kind of bully-like sometimes. and so people, i think, can look at this and say oh, i can picture him doing that. that's the danger for him. >> having said, that christopher, he would said look, i'm not a bully, i'm a blunt speaker, i call things for what they are. i call people out when i see injustice or people attacking me or whatever it may. and to date, nothing has come out which actually says he has lied about what he knew about this. >> he's the current political pinata. and like pinatas, people put blindfolds on and just whack him. so he's going to have a lot of that. if you can't stand the heat,

don't get in the kitchen. he made himself a national figure. everybody knew this day was going to come. and we'll see how he fairs when the spotlight is on you. >> i mean, they built him up and i've always felt they did it because they like to tear people down. i've seen in my own life, with my dad, they brought him in, said his poll numbers were great. once he stepped into the race, they did a hatchet job on him. >> speaking of books, this book asserts that hillary clinton clinton's -- your father was on that list. what did you make of that? >> i knew that president clinton had a lot of misgivings with my dad moving towards an endorsement for barack obama. i can understand that. it was a two-way street.

but i can definitely understand where there were hurt feelings there. i think my dad took the long view, and that was his brothers were there in the civil rights movement early on. i think he felt an obligation, not only to making a political decision, but to his brother's memory. i think he felt this obligation to be with this historic figure, barack obama, at the time. so i hope that the clintons understand that. i know in the heat of the moment you can't, because that's just the way things are. >> let's move on to this book, christopher. "what addicts know,," what is the point of the book and the key thing you want people to take away from it? >> well, that people that recover from this brain illness have a lot to give the world. that more than just their sobriety. people look at this population and go, as long as they're not using, they're fine. there are 23 million people in recovery in the united states of america, just in the united states. they have enormous experience,

wonderful experience and they have a lot to give the world in terms of how to live life and how to have a happier life. our culture is riddled with addiction. not just substance and behavioral, but technology. the materialism. all of it. and people are looking for answers there. there are no answers there. and we know that as a community. we know how to become i think more fulfilled. these are not new principles by the way. but that's the idea, this is a community that has a lot to give. and basically they do not deserve the stigma and discrimination they face once they find recovery. >> what do you make, patrick, about the legalization of marijuana debate, which is now raging? colorado has made it pretty much fully legal. in terms of the claim that people say it's a gateway to other drugs, do you subscribe to that? >> first, let me say the war on drugs was an abysmal failure. i tried to move in congress to

treat these issues as health issues, not criminal justice issues. i still believe that. but understanding that legalization increases use, and there's a corollary there, particularly among young people, is something that's hard to ignore. so i can't be for legalization, because i can't be for more teenagers using. in my open case, i started using as a teenager. and 9 out of 10 addicts started when they're teenagers. this is a time to be starting drugs. and this notion that, it's just legal for 21 and over. we know that's a lot of huey, it's going to be a lot of kids that now use. >> there are lots of kids using any way, and the argument is they will get it any way. >> 52% use alcohol because it's legal. tobacco, the same thing. the point is, a lot more will use it if it's legal. >> the two most damaging drugs

on the planet is alcohol and tobacco. the question is, do we need another one? prevalence matters. when you legalize something, prevalence increases. >> as a country, we should try to do better. this is not going to make our country stronger. it's going to sap our energy as a society. we have a learning gap among kids. this is only going to widen that gap. we can't be a first rate nation and go to pot. that's just it. >> the book is available now. christopher, you'll be signing books in boston, philadelphia and d.c. later this month. good to see you both. thank you very much. bashgback.

monday night, the wolf of wall street. the movie raunchy, raw, but i'll talk to the real-life wolf of wall street. that's monday night. should be quite a night. the following is a cnn special report. there's never been a first lady like her. >> the statement she made that night in that gown was, i'm a different kind of first lady. >> chicago native and career woman. >> she was a high-powered lawyer, earning an enormous amount of money. >> mother of two and the president's better half. >> she keeps me straight every single day. she is the best mom in the world, and she's cute. >> she's elegant and influential. >> she was a hit, and it's been that way ever since.