injustice must be uprooted from american society because it is morally wrong, because it stands against all of the precepts of our christian heritage. many generations of americans suffered, bled and died, confident that those who followed them would preserve the purity of our ideals. all americans must enlist in a crusade finally to make the race question an ugly relic of a dark past. >> moving words from dr. martin luther king jr. on this special, special day. remember, you can always follow what's going on here in the situation room on twitter. go ahead and tweet m me @wolfblitzer. "crossfire" with hilary rosen and bill crystal starts right now. tonight on "crossfire," the

governor, his allies, and the bullying scandal that won't go away. >> she made a direct threat to me. if you tell anyone, i'll deny it. >> i deny wholeheartedly those allegations. >> on the left, van jones, on the right, s.e. cupp, hilary rosen a democratic strategist and bill crystal, editor of "the weekly standard." is governor chris christie's team bullying mayors? what would it mean if he runs for president? tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm van jones on the left. >> i'm s.e. cupp on the right. two very different views of new jersey governor chris christie. today we have a dear diary moment and she said/she said. this isn't melrose place, it's new jersey. for those of you who are watching football this weekend,

let me catch you up. first, the mayor of hoboken goes public with her diary. supposedly christie sent his lieutenant governor to threaten the mayor that he'd withhold sandy relief money unless the mayor approved a development deal. >> when the lieutenant governor comes, pulls you aside in a parking lot and says that these two things are connected. i know it shouldn't be, but they are. if you tell anyone, i'll deny it. she felt almost guilty about saying it. >> keep in mind this is the same mayor who once told cnn that withholding the funding was not retaliation. this morning the lieutenant governor trashed the mayor's story and, watch, she doesn't look guilty, she looks furious. >> the suggestion that anyone would hold back sandy relief funds for any reason is wholly and completely false. >> but this afternoon, the mayor denied the denial. here's a little advice.

democrats looking to destroy christie have to make sure their stories are serious and air-tight. otherwise the only credibility they'll damage is their own. >> nobody is arguing with you about that. i certainly think we should slow down and enjoy this. it's going to take a very long time, much more is coming. and in the "crossfire" tonight, democratic strategist hilary rosen and bill crystal are here to help us sort this out. now look, i know that good conservatives like yourself want everybody to believe this is just some media fixation, it's not fair, the media is being so mean to chris christie. now, we actually have an actual federal investigation. this woman has sat down with federal investigators and she said she's willing to go under oath and say this actually happened. isn't this now a real snuz stne story? >> if we have a federal government, shouldn't we let the federal investigator investigate? chris christie fired two staff, to his credit, says he didn't

know anything. i don't know who's telling the truth. you're entitled to talk about it all you want. the liberal media loves it, he's allegedly the republican front runner. a chance to blow the guy up early. >> we can look at motives, though, as to who's telling the truth. you're right, somebody will go out on a limb and say one of them is telling the truth. but -- bill's line. but mayor zimmer, though, has no incentive not to tell the truth here. she actually has been complimentary of governor christie in the past. she's actually appeared with him several times in public. unlike other democratic mayors in new jersey, she actually has some credibility here. she's got nothing to lose. >> nothing to gain by it. >> nothing to gain by making it up. lieutenant governor guadagno has a lot to lose if she's not telling the truth. >> listen, i know democrats are ecstatic about this hoboken mayor who can't seem to stick to one story, and even the guy

charged with investigating the christie scandal seems to have already made up his mind. take a look at rudy giuliani's reaction to assemblyman john wisniewski over the weekend. >> i have said with all of his senior people in the midst of a re-election year, it's hard to believe that he knew nothing until january 8th. >> when you announce before you even investigate that you don't believe the subject of the investigation or the person who's the ultimate focus of the investigation, it would seem to me the assemblyman has an ethical obligation to step down, to recuse himself. >> we know today that he said he's not going to do that. he said today on cnn. but it seems to me there's a partisan push from the left to get ahead of the facts. why not, as bill said, wait for the investigation and then do your celebration dance? >> rudy giuliani really should get his facts straight before he goes on tv, because he's just been all over the place on this. first he called this thing a little prank. you know, 91-year-old woman stuck by emergency service with this traffic jam. you know, this was not a prank. but more importantly right now,

these subpoenas, this investigation by this committee is bipartisan. every republican voted to issue these subpoenas. >> they want to get to the bottom of it, sure. >> the idea that rudy giuliani is saying to recuse himself, maybe they should all recuse themselves. >> it's a bipartisan investigation with which the governor is cooperating to get to the bottom of it. that's unlike it's supposed to work. unlike other investigations where there have been attempts to cover up or intimidate people in the clinton years or benghazi. in this one, everyone is cooperating. so that's good government at work here in new jersey. >> let's do a couple things here. first of all, let's just be practical. this is your superstar. >> he's not my superstar. >> he's the republican party's big superstar. >> he's not.

in the world you move into liberal media and rich donor, christie is the favorite. mike huckabee be would beat chris christie right now for the republican nomination, which isn't to say chris christie wouldn't be a strong candidate. democrats think -- >> i'm going to agree with you because i think if democrats overplay this, all we're going to do is make conservatives who have hated chris christie actually like him. >> let me just say this, i was in the first bush white house. we lost terribly in '92 and i remember this chortling in december of '91 when mayrio cuoo said i'm not running again. i remember i said dan quayle said don't underestimate the didn't i. he's a pretty good politician. he got elected in a state full of conservatives.

>> suddenly everybody is running for the hills away from this guy. >> i'm not. >> not everybody. >> i'm defending him. i'm happy to defend him. he deserves due process. he's been a good governor and also the charge is bullying? really? is that a serious charge. if there's a law that's been broken, obviously that needs to be investigated. >> first of all, both of these things would be -- both of these things would be illegal and we both know it. you've been around this ground for a very long time. a very, very, very long time. >> surprisingly long time. >> chris christie has to be born on krypton, he's got to run the state, run the republican governor association, he's got to run for president and now deal with a federal investigation. how can one man do all of these things at the same time? don't you think he should at least step down from the republican governors association and focus on this crisis? >> no, he should focus on running the state. i like chris christie,

incidentally, but he was re-elected governor of new jersey. it's going to be important to his future ambitions that he does a good job as governor of he should cooperate with the investigation. i think he has time to go around the country and raise money for other gubernatorial candidates. he should not run for president in 2014. i don't think he's doing this. >> i'm the only one at the table from new jersey, right? i actually am from new jersey and the first political job i had was working for the governor of new jersey. the new jersey governor's office has an enormous amount of power, much more so than many other states. they actually appoint the attorney general. they have more political appointees in state government than most any other state. and so you really can actually, you know, just be a politician in that state as opposed to governing. and what everybody says about christie for the last yore and a half is that he has completely only focused on beefing up his

margins, running for president, masquerading everything that he was doing to help him. that's the point that dawn zimmer is raising. >> i think people would disagree and say he's done a lot for the state. >> but what she's saying is, look, he's using the cronyism for extra purposes. >> and we have to believe her for that to be an important revelation. but the question about the rga and i thought it was a little naive of christie to suggest nothing is going to change for me at the rga. no, things are going to change. your kitchen is going to be a little hot. let me ask you this. you've advised president obama, bp, during crisis management events. would you tell chris christie, don't go to florida, stay home, hide, look guilty or get out there and do the job you said you were going to do. >> i don't think raising money for other governors under a cloud is useful for him. really the problem that he's had is that he can't stay home and

face the media, he can't travel and face the media. florida might have been the right thing because everyone in florida wanted him. whereas lindsey graham, republican senator from south carolina said yesterday don't come to my state. i don't want you in my state. >> his two-hour press conference -- >> hold on a second, guys. we're going to talk about this for a while because i think governor chris christie's problems are going to be bigger, last longer and be messier than anybody here thinks. when we get back, i'll give you 146 reasons why chris christie should be worried, when we get back. when it comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert.

that would be my daughter -- hi dad. she's a dietitian. and back when i wasn't eating right, she got me drinking boost. it's got a great taste, and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong, stay active with boost.

welcome back into "crossfire." we've got hilary rosen and bill kristol. now, i am shocked, shocked at allegations that chris christie is a shady politician. give me a break. this is a guy that launched his political career in 1994 with a false ad that he aired more than 400 times. he got sued for that and had to

pa apologize. his landslide re-election last year was a sham. he deliberately scheduled cory booker's senate election to take place three weeks ahead of his election. most democrats voted in booker's race. most republicans voted in chris i's race. of course christie did well but that's an abuse of power as obvious as any traffic jam. plus it cost taxpayers about $25 million. so, surprise, surprise, here we are. new week, new scandal, new hole in this guy's straight shooter image and we still have 146 weeks left until election day 2016. so -- >> that's pathetic. if that's the best you've got against christie, i'm going to endorse him. oh, he had an ad that was controversial. he won a landslide. >> he had appaologizeapologize. >> that's never happened to any other politicians. >> here's the thing, democrats -- >> barack obama had no issues in

his ads. bill clinton. >> i'm sorry, go ahead. >> we didn't actually need this to happen for us to be credible against chris christie, to have a credible candidacy against chris christie. he's still outside -- you should like him more. he's outside of the mainstream. he's vetoed planned parenthood funding five times. >> now democrats are accusing christie of the far right extreme? >> my tax dollars need to go to planned parenthood. >> he's taxing the middle class. so democrats and independents have lots of reasons to be confident about chris christie. this is something he did to himself. >> those are fair policy debates to have. but i think it shows how scared democrats are. are we going to have an election where -- terrible? i don't know. >> i've got something to say. i'm not scared of these numbers. you want to talk about something

that's scared of these numbers. look at these numbers. brand new poll from pew. in a year, this guy's unfavorables have gone to 17 to 34%. doubled his unfavorable. doubled his unfavorable numbers. >> this is also pathetic. you're in the middle of wall-to-wall coverage of cnn and everybody else on this ald scandal. bill clinton's numbers weren't great at this height of the jennifer flowers scandal. you know, when scandals blow up, your numbers go bad for a while. let's see where christie is -- >> you brought something up earlier, and i think it's right on. politico over the weekend interviewed a bunch of conservative activists in states like iowa and south carolina and new hampshire, who were not huge christie fans. and they said all of this coverage is actually softening them to chris christie. and you mentioned that this

might actually win christie sympathy from the very people who would desperately like to get voting for him in 2016. what would you tell democrats like van who maybe run the risk of going too far against christie to drum up, you know, hatred and vitriol when in fact -- well, when in fact this might turn far right republican on to him. >> you know, people are threatened bthreaten ed by hillary but think christie is out there. they think the reason we're going after him is because of that so they're naturally going to come and support him more. but i think that nothing will change the outcome if these hearings show that this came closer to his office than he said. that he really had other aides -- i mean after all, it took him four months to get to this point of actually firing two aides. when, you know, his entire office was covering this up four months ago.

so, you know, nothing will help him if real bad facts come out. and if no facts more than what's come out happens, you know, then it's going end up -- >> for all we know his entire office was covering this up. >> that's what those e-mails said. >> this is why this whole discussion -- >> yeah, we're going to know. >> his communications director, all those people were trying to figure this out. >> all this speculation at this point is silly. he is getting sworn in tomorrow. supposed to be a big day for him. i think it's going to be a tough day rather than a big day for him. i think the last thing he would want to hear on the day he's getting inaugurated is to hear democrats saying i want you to hear this and get your response to it. >> if in fact it's true that the christie administration was linking this development project to sandy aid, that's a serious charge and something that i think would be illegal and would result in, you know, impeachment or resignation.

>> stay with me on this. big if, he said if. big, big if, but part of our job is to speculate. if in fact it's true what he said, wouldn't you agree that impeachment would be in order? you've been poo-pooing this all night long. don't you think these are serious allegations and are impeachable? >> i would agree if chris christie is impeached or forced to resign, he probably won't bow the republican nominee in 2016. look, what's amazing is the media -- the intensity and insanity almost of the media coverage of this what is a he said/she said or she said/she said story at this point and it does show fear of christie and it shows that democrats correctly understand against a strong next generation republican candidate like chris christ christie, but there are many others also, but someone like mike huckabee be who's been around a little bit, that they have a tough race in 2016 and they're desperately trying to wipe out any republicans they have an excuse to wipe out at this point. >> i think there's hype, but i

think it's hype he brought on himself. this is a guy who's gone around and dared everybody. in fact made his brand criticizing republicans. that's half his brand. but, you know, the arrogance he's shown about how he knows everything better, he's the governor of a blue state and he's so great an he's doing this. i think in many respects this backlash is something that he's brought on and that is what the people of new jersey are feeling. that is what these democrats are feeling and these mayors who are more independent are feeling. this is kind of just -- >> he is eating some humble pie. maybe that will improve his character. >> he has so many perceived or real enemies on the left and the right. you don't need this scandal because democrats had so much more to work with, then why are you giving him so much attention? why not just let him collapse under his own weight.

>> believe me, these hearings are not easy for him. he has a lot of questions to answer. i'm just going to ignore that. he has a long way to go here. you know, this whole thing might collapse. what he said yesterday is i'm going to learn from this and come out stronger. this national crisis is what i needed three years before a presidential primary to test me in the national media. one or the other will be true. >> i hope he learns something from it and i hope he survives. the final question for both of our guests. we want you at home to weigh in. do you think chris christie should step down as chairman of the republican governor's association? tweet yes or no. we will have the results after the break. this is interesting.

it says here that a woman's sex drive increases at the age of 80. helps reduce the risk of heart disease. it seems that 80 is the new 18. grannies, bless your heart, you are bringing sexy back! eat up. keep heart-healthy. live long. for a healthy heart, eat the 100% natural whole grain goodness of post shredded wheat. doctors recommend it.

you're saying i can get at&t's network with a data plan and unlimited talk and text for as low as $45 a month? $45 a month. wow...no annual contract. no annual contract. no long-term agreement. no long-term agreement. really? really. ok, so what's the catch? there is no catch. ok, i'm obviously getting nowhere with you. i'm gonna need to speak with the supervisor. i am the supervisor. oh, finally someone i can talk to. [ male announcer ] it's not complicated. new smartphone plans starting at $45 a month, with no annual contract. only from at&t. [ chainsaw whirring ] humans -- sometimes life trips us up. sometimes we trip ourselves up. and although the mistakes may seem to just keep coming at you, so do the solutions. like multi-policy discounts from liberty mutual insurance.

save up to 10% just for combining your auto and home insurance. call liberty mutual insurance at... [ thump ] to speak with an insurance expert and ask about all the personalized savings available for when you get married, move into a new house, or add a car to your policy. personalized coverage and savings. all the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. call... and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? that's my end goal, that's my end destination. for me, even a quick weekend trip to kind of reset makes me a better athlete. [ male announcer ] be a weekender like ashley wagner at hotels like hilton and hampton. book now at hiltonweekends.com.

we're back with hilary rosen and bill crystal. now it is time for the final question. >> i get to go first. probably the reality is you have been talking about investigation. probably we have the worst of all possible outcomes. there is not going to be a smoking gun that says christie is guilty. it is going to be subpoena after subpoena and drip, drip, drip on the new cycle. doesn't that from your point of view make christie pretty much permanently toxic and not really a viable candidate for the

presidency? >> you sound like bush's chief of staff telling me that was going to happen to bill clinton and white water and he was going to be toxic. i think he did well in '92 and '96. >> does the process worry you? >> no. either chris christie broke the law or he didn't. if he didn't i think it is a small bump in the road. we have voters, people get to vote and don't have to listen to the liberal media and people like us. they get to judge chris christie on stage with other impressive young republican candidates. i feel good about the republican field. >> bill mentioned the clinton's. if they proved anything it is that you can survive scandal after scandal after scandal. is that only if you are a democrat or if you have a

compelling personality? >> much of your ability to survive a scandal is about who is speaking for you and who is not speaking for you. in chris christie's case when you have republicans like lindsey graham with a tight primary saying don't come to my state of south carolina that is a problem. when you have the manchester union leader in an early primary state saying we are taking this seriously because our voters don't like abuses of power then you have other people in chris christie's camp saying i'm a little worried about you, guy. >> i think that is a fair point. would you concede if democrats in 2014 tell the president please don't come to our state would you say that is also a problem for democrats? >> i think democrats telling barack obama to stay away is a problem for barack obama getting things through congress but that the is not the issue here. the issue is whether the problems from chris christie

will go to other republicans. i think that is possible. the one i would close on one final point of advice for chris christie. >> i'm sure he is watching. >> if you are watching, do not go and have rudy giuliani be your defender against a bullying charge. you could find somebody a little sweeter, softerer, more engaged and a little more trustworthy on that charge than rude giuliani. >> that was good advice. >> i want to thank you both. you can go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on ourback question. do you think chris christie should step down as chairman of the republican governor's association. from the left i'm dan jones.

>> from the right i'm s.e. cupp. next, breaking news, a massive and deadly explosion in nebraska. a search operation underway as fears grow that as many as 21 people are dead or trapped in the rubble. a disturbing story, two toddlers found stabbed to death. their mother told police she was performing an exorcism. and richard sherman addresses criticism flying his way. does he deserve to be called a thug? let's go