welcome to "crossfire." i'm stephanie cutter on the left. >> i'm newt gingrich on the right. in the "crossfire" tonight, guests with very different views of president obama's foreign policy. here's how i see it. libya is in chaos, syria is in chaos, iraq is descending into chaos, pakistan is a mess, afghanistan is teetering on the edge, and then you have the iranians. within the past two weeks, cnn has record three things that should alarm every american. first, iran's president tweeted the world's powers surrendered to iran's will. second, iran's foreign minister declared his country isn't dismantling any of its centrifuges. and then you have iran's president today explaining to cnn's fareed zakaria what the chants of "death to america" really mean. >> what they mean to say relates to the aggressive policies of

the u.s. and intervention and meddling boy the u.s. we don't want those to continue. >> well, i would just suggest that you that if an american leader was wandering around chanting death to iran, it would be hard to explain we meant that it symbolic. and they have had a long tradition now of over 30 years of behaving as though they mean it. >> you're right, newt, they have a long tradition of saying things exactly like that. but what matters here is that for the first time in decades we have an agreement in place that has halted iran's nuclear weapons program. it's a temporary agreement that dpi gives us space to negotiate a broader deal. this is real progress that the american government under president obama has been able to accomplish. this would china and russia are enforcing a deal with iran to make sure that they are not

producing weapons grade uranium, are dismantling some of their capabilities with their centrifuges and unprecedented transparency. this is happening all under the spotlight of international inspectors. so i don't understand how you can't call that progress. but we're going to get to that. >> we're going to get to that. >> you're not going answer right now. in the crossfire tonight, former democratic congressman tom periello and former presidential candidate rick santorum. senator santorum, i want to start with you. you've had some very smart advice about iran back in 2012. i want you to take a look at this. >> i would be saying to the iranians, you open up those facilities, begin to dismantle them and make them available to inspectors or we will degrade those facilities through air strikes. >> how is that different from what president obama right

now -- how exactly is that different? because we're dismantling. there's unprecedented transparency and we've made clear that all options are still on the table. >> first off, there's three elements to a nuclear program. there's the development of the material, the uranium, the enrichment of that. secondly, there's a weaponization of that and third, there's the delivery capability. the two -- two of the three are not even being discussed. the weaponization continues. the research continues on the weaponizing of the uranium. secondly, they're obviously continuing to develop longer and longer range missiles to deliver that. why the iranians have to develop long-range missiles that are capable of carrying nuclear warheads if they have no interest in a nuclear weapon is a little fuzzy. >> but you understand what this deal is. this is a temporary deal to give us space to negotiate a longer program to halt their development of weapons grade uranium. >> what this is, is a respite

for the iranians whose economy is being crushed by sanctions. they're starting to feel it. i was the author of the iran freedom support act, which put in a layer of those sanctions. and i believed over time that if in fact we had real sufficient sanctions and got international support for them that the iranians would in fact come to the table. but what the president has done is given them a respite on what i would consider not a critical path part of their weapons development in exchange for economic relief that solidifies the regime. and what you're hearing from the iranians is they're not really slowing down anything. they're not -- this is not really doing anything to -- >> i just have one last question. >> -- to change the timeline for their program. >> you have to admit that it's progress. that they have stopped making weapons grade uranium and that they are diluting what they already have. you have to admit that that's progress. >> the heavy washington reactor

construction continues. >> and that's all part of a potential comprehensive deal. >> what we've done is give them what they need, which is access to economic growth, which is harmful for the long term for our chances of getting any permanent deal. >> tom, you just came back from a very impressive trip to the syrian camps in turkey, along the turkish border. you've been in the region and understand the people often talk differently than we do, but i want to come back to the president of iran talking about the notion of death to america. here's what he actually said in the campaign. remember this is the moderate wing of the dictatorship. he said saying death to america is easy. we need to express death to america with action. now, i just want to ask you to sort of interpret for us americans how should we interpret somebody who says we're going to express death to

america with action? i understand stephanie's point that a deal has been cut, although the iranians say publicly we are -- the white house is exaggerating what the deal is, even for the interim. but how do you interpret death to america? >> well, i think first of all we have to understand we're not entering into this agreement because we want to have play time with rouhani. we're not looking to be friends, we're looking to make a deal in the strategic interest of the united states and our crucial allies of the region. if i want to sell my house, i don't care if the person i'm selling my house to is a jerk, i care on whether i'm getting a good deal on selling my house. right now we've entered into a deal despite what senator santorum said, we've given up nothing in return for an upside gain of potentially getting a deal. i think there's no reason for real optimism that that deal is going to come through but we've also risked almost nothing. a tiny amount of the

discretionary sanctions are there. even iran's own assessment is there will be 1% economic growth. i've tried to run for office with 1% economic growth, it's not a good thing. they feel tremendous pressure. that's why you see the davos charm effective. they know they're not out of the woods. they're nowhere close to out of the woods. one of the things president obama has been able to do is not make this the u.s. versus iran but united the pressure. now we have a chance to pull back that program and if it falls through, we're no worse off than we were before. we have all the sanctions, we can ratchet back up the discretionary sanctions and we continue that program. so you've had a lot of upside. >> what's your interpretation? >> my interpretation of death to america is that they mean it. the iranians have declared war on the united states and have been in the state of war with the united states since the

revolution in 1979. there is nothing, there is nothing in the history of iran, moderates to conservatives, if you will, or radicals in the government that gives you any indication that they are willing to back down one inch from their desire to get a nuclear weapon. we need to deal with this as the israelis are dealing with it, as a life-and-death situation because it's going to be a life-and-death situation. iran with a nuclear weapon very well means the end of the state of israel. i don't think we're doing anything the israelis would like to see us do, which is actually do something to degrade that opportunity. >> netanyahu said we can't be at this line. even the interim deal halts and brings down the enriched uranium to 20%. it doesn't deal with nothing, no interim agreement does. but it absolutely moves back what netanyahu and israel said

was the kpoe dozen shal and urgent threat. >> what degrades the capability of iranians are doing things to degrade it. like viruses and worm that say get into their computer systems. like other types of accidents that occur to people in iran that happen to be working on the nuclear program. we don't see anything by the united states to do anything to physically degrade this capability. what we see is a lot of talk that is at best uncertain as to what that deal is about. >> i would take strong policy over strong rhetoric. i think in the bush years we made iran a lot stronger. >> next, i'm going to tell you how president obama has taken awe page from, i think, somebody that you're probably both fans of, ronald reagan. so stay here. when it comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert.

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in the crossfire tonight, tom perriello and rick santorum. iran's president had some tough talk today. he told cnn his country won't under any circumstances destroy centrifuges that could be used to make a nuclear bomb. well, that's up for negotiation. what iran has agreed to is a temporary halt of its nuclear weapons program. this lets the u.s. negotiate without the left of a nuclear bomb launching towards israel or the united states. and guess what, iran is living up to its side of the agreement, at least so far. they're ending their enrichment program and opening it up for international inspectors. remember the old ronald reagan adage, trust but verify. that's what the obama administration is doing and the rest of the world is doing. despite all the bluster, iran has backed down. so senator santorum, i want to come back to you for a second. over a decade ago, president bush declared this in defining

his foreign policy. let's watch. >> states like these and their terrorist allies constitute an axis of evil, arming to threaten the peace of the world. >> now, we all remember who he was talking about. he was talking about iran, iraq and north korea. now, 11 years later, knowing what we know now, wouldn't you agree that he focused on the wrong country there that started with the letter "i"? we let them get stronger and build the capability they have now? >> i actually argued at the time that iran was the greater threat, that they are the ones and in fact for a long time argued we should have been focused on iran. back when i was running for re-election in 2006 in the middle of the iraq war i was asked a question by tim russ certificate. what's the greatest threat to the country? i said iran. he said you misspoke, you meant

iraq. i said, no, iran. they have very clear intent. he said under no circumstances will we release -- dismantle our program and you said, well, but that's subject to negotiation. maybe you just didn't hear what he said. no, it's not subject to negotiation. >> well, that's what negotiation is. >> no, but they're very clear. they have been very, very clear -- >> they were also clear that they weren't going to negotiate over their uranium. >> but they have done nothing -- they have done nothing irreversib irreversible. they have done nothing they can't the next day reconstitute and put back. >> absolutely, and that's what tom said earlier. but there's nothing for us to lose. >> what we lose -- what we lose is our credibility, and that's the problem with this president is he draws red lines and loses credibility when he doesn't stand up and support, particularly our allies in the region. the israelis have been very clear. they don't like these negotiations, they don't support these negotiations, they see them as a hindrance to getting iran to -- >> for the first time in a decade their program has

stopped, which means they're not making progress on creating a bomb pointed towards israel. >> i want to ask tom the same thing about credibility. it struck me as we were looking at all this today that actually a person in chess terms in a very interesting fork is secretary clinton. if in fact this does fail, then it's a continuation of what under her was four years of failure. on the other hand, if this does succeed, you have this remarkably successful secretary of state kerry who's able to achieve what secretary clinton couldn't achieve. i mean isn't she in some ways the person who has the greatest paradoxical interest on what's going on in the middle east? >> first of all, i don't think she would see it that way. i think she's interested in what's good for the united states. if we get a deal that removes this threat, that's good for everybody. i also think in both parties we need to get away from the idea that if you try something and it fails, that makes you a failure. we actually have to get more creative about trying in all elements of our public policy.

you cannot do risk-free foreign policy and do great things. you can't do risk-free domestic policy. i'm going on a tangent but i think it's relevant. in this case the iran deal could fail and that doesn't mean that it was wrong to try it. what would be wrong is to give something up while trying it. >> so the president could succeed in doing for national security what he did for obamacare. he could end up with the equivalent of the website -- >> lower the uninsurance rate? >> let me ask you a second thing about hillary. there's a new cover coming out on "the new york times" called "planet hillary." today we learned it has a new powerful satellite orbiting around it which is one of the pieces, i said it right, one of the pieces of the obama team, a priorities usa super pac. my first thought is this was a bad sign for joe biden. but in addition it reinforces the notion isn't she in the end

tied to the president's record? if she runs in 2016, won't it be impossible for her to try to represent some kind of a new start in washington? >> i think secretary clinton had an identity in the eyes of the american people before they knew who barack obama was. i think she served as a great secretary of state and senator. i think she is a force of nature in her own right. i think people will judge her based on the extent they think she can be commander in chief. sure, she will answer for decisions she made as secretary of state. people understand ultimately those calls come down to the commander in chief and that's the job she would be running for if she chooses to do so and i think we would be lucky as a country if she does. >> since you brought up 2016, i want to bring it to the republicans. let's talk about chris christie. the investigation of what's happening in new jersey is widening. the u.s. attorney issued some subpoenas today. i think this is going to be a long investigation, and who knows what it's going to uncover. did he disqualify himself as a nominee for the party? >> i give the democrats a lot of credit. they play politics a lot harder than republicans do. >> not a lot harder than chris christie. >> and they are doing it here.

the u.s. attorney here is clearly stretching his political tentacles to go after a popular republican politician. the media seems very obsessed with picking up on everything he may have early to determine look, i went through a presidential campaign where in five months we saw six leaders. so, i think we're a long way from -- >> let me ask you something which is more important than bridgegate and something that covers you having been back in the middle east. it strikes me that there is, that al qaeda is still much more dangerous than we normally want to give it credit for.

they are in fallujafallujah. they are, as you know, in parts of syria. allies in a variety of forms are mutating and evolving all over the place and the massacre and the nairobi mall. isn't it a fact that in many ways these things are getting to be more dangerous and, in fact, more recruits that we're not, in fact, winning the long term. this is not about obama. this is about the united states. we are not winning the long-term struggle for young people in the region. >> whether more or less, a very serious threat and anyone that thinks it is not and not people looking to hurt us and our allies off base. i think the growing isolationism in both parties because no corner of the world relevant to the united states. i see syria as an example of this. i supported a more aggressive posture towards syria and many said it is not in our interest. safe havens for al qaeda move in. you have a repressive dictator

slaughtering civilians and the al qaeda safe havens and that's an issue for us morally and also strategically. al qaeda does remain a threat. >> stay here. >> i just want to say, i agree with that. there, a point of agreement. >> stay here. t next, the final question for both of our guests and weigh in on our fireback question. is the u.s. getting fooled by iran? we'll have the results after the break.

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we're back with tom and rick santorum. now, it's time for the final question. you get it go first. >> senator, i want to switch gears a little bit. a. >> a little bit. >> back to domestic issues. this was former and presidential candidate, former presidential candidate mike huckabee today at the rnc meeting. >> the democrats want to insult the women of america by making them believe that they are helpless without uncle sugar coming in and providing for them a prescription each month for birth control because they cannot control their libido without the help of the government, so be it. >> there is a lot there to deconstruct. i was going to ask who uncle sugar is. do you agree with that sentiment that an insult to women, especially women who can't afford contraception for the government to come in and say

women should have access to this without no out of pocket costs? >> i think what governor huckabee was saying is that we've seen an unprecedented assault by the republicans claiming there was a war on women when, in fact, there is -- republicans have been tremendous in supporting equality of women in the workplace and a whole host of other places. we happen to disagree on reproductive rights and abortion. but on the issue of contraception, i don't think there's a lot of disagreement in america. that's one of the things that is most frustrating, there isn't a lot of disagreement on access to cont contraception. whether the government should pay for it. >> does language like that help with restoring your image with women? >> i think governor huckabee would phrase it differently. speaks off the cuff, as some of us are known to do and probably would have chose different words

to communicate that message. >> i'll take you to a much different and less sexy topic. you have been all across the region and talking about the concerns of turkey, for example. do you see any place in the region providing sort of a moving towards stability rather than moving towards instability in what you've seen over there? >> it's obviously, a very difficult time in the region. arab spring continues to be, whether you call it arab winter and what have you and development in progress. you know, turkey has been relatively stable, but it is also relatively democratic. and you have a potential corruption issue actually relatively good on the syria issue. how do we balance with those allies? >> i wish we could take this conversation much unfortunately, we're short on time. >> go to facebook or twitter to weigh in on our final question. right now 64% of you say yes and 36% say no. the debate continues online at

cnn.com/crossfire, as well as on facebook and twitter. >> from the left, i'm stephanie cutter. >> from the right,ch. join us again tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. next, is edward snowden coming home? the obama administration says there is a way, but with the nsa leaker play along? hear what he told our own jake tapper. plus, what was it that set richard sherman off during the championship game? we have the audio of what he said during the game. justin bieber busted for drag racing and dui. is he the new thug on the block? let's go outfront. good evening, everyone.