tv CNN Newsroom CNN January 25, 2014 10:00am-11:01am PST
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it seem like there was still a lot of people inside the mall? >> i don't think so. it's kind of hard to say. but -- it seemed pretty empty for the most part. i -- i guess people, you know -- i think the swat team was going from store to store telling people to get out. because when everybody left, not all the stores closed their doors. so i think they were still looking in each -- every store trying to find the guy. i don't know. it was -- it was just crazy. one of things you see on tv but you never think to go through it. >> sounds like you did a great job keeping yourself and others around you safe and keep ago cool head through it all. kt, thanks so much. in addition you're well. >> thank you very much. >> all right.
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oliver i understand is all so on the phone with us. is that true? do i have oliver janny? okay. colin ready i understand now is with us. all so on employee at the mall. colin, i understand you heard the shots. tell me more. >> yeah. i was at work. it was just a regular day, you know, we was chilling at work. and then i heard like a boom sound. so i -- go to see what was happening. and then i heard it again. well, the first time i heard the sound, i thought it was construction because there's a lot of construction going on at the mall right now. then i heard it again, like boom, boom, boom. then i saw everybody running. so we started running to the back, me and my coworkers. i was almost out the door before my assistant manager call me back and she told me i had to
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stay there. i wanted to leave. but she said i had to stay. then she closed the gate and we were just waiting in the back room. i heard about eight or nine shots go off completely, i think. we were just waiting in the stock room for about 45 minutes before the howard county police officer came. he knocked on the door. we got people on the back door. he wasn't in his uniform. so we didn't know whether to believe him or not. my assist the manager was like, can we see a badge or something. i don't think he had a badge or anything. we were really scared before she decided to hope the door. it was him, he let us out, and we were safe. >> there's a pretty frightening sequence of events. had you as an employee of the store or were other stores kind of given the same kinds of instructions, when something like this happens it's time to
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close the gate protecting i guess your store to what may be going on outside in the mall? >> i don't know. i just know, like, that was our first instinct. first we ran to the back of the store. we didn't close the gate or anything. we just ran to the back of the store. then we was like, wait, we need to close the gate just in case he tries to come in here or anything. so then my assistant manager crawled out there to close the gate and locked it up. i don't know about the other stores, though. >> you mentioned you heard the boom, you know it was the gunshot sound. was there ever any yelling? did you ever -- >> yeah. everybody. everybody was creaming. there was -- screaming. there was kids running around. i saw a couple -- i guess they couldn't run or anything, so they were crouched under -- like under the subway try -- not the subway, the store, trying to get
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cover or anything. >> all right. and colin, so you're no longer on the property right? you are outside of the mall because you did get out of the mall right? >> i'm home now. they allowed us to go. >> dplad you're safe and thanks so much for sharing your account of events with us. >> oliver is now on the scene. we're now looking at live images, in fact. you heard colin and k.t. talking about earlier how there were a lot of children in the mall and he could see the panic and the fear that many of their parents had trying to keep them safe through it all. now you see people casually walking. let's find out now from oliver. is there an all-clear now? does it appear most people are being allowed to leave the mall?
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>> i'm at the intersection of wind stream drive and the park way. i'm seeing a straem of shopters leaving the mall. i can't confirm that there's been an all clear from where i am. we do have news helicopters over the mall. i did see a park place police helicopter take off. but as far as all clear, i can't confirm that from where m am. i do see lots of people starting to stream out of the mall. >> so you can see a lot of people on foot getting to their cars, some of those cars actually exiting the property of the mall? >>s that correct. i've also seen a number of apparatus from neighboring
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jurisdictions. [ inaudible ] respond up here, so obviously a big effort in the surrounding jurisdictions. >> uh-huh and so oliver, as far as you can tell, because we were talking columbia, maryland, it's kind of sandwiched between washington d.c. and baltimore, maryland. are you also seeing the assistance -- you mention park police, which is federal law enforcement. are you noticing whether there are markers of other jurisdictions that are there to assist? >> i certainly am. you're seeing a response from the washington metro area. as i said, a u.s. park police help continuer just -- helicopter just departed from here. did see a command vehicle from montgomery county come up. as i was driving along route 100 to the mall, i did see a number of police cars heading this
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direction. it would be safe to assume that they were coming here. i'm here at the entrance to the mall. there are state police blocking the entrance. they do have their large guns out telling people they cannot enter the mall. and then we have howard county police blocking the exit just letting one line of cars out. i do have a live picture. i don't know if you guys are able to see that streaming off on iphone here. steady stream of people coming out. the news is getting out that this is happening here. >> all right. thank you so much. standby. for those of you just now joining us, you're looking at lye immaving here outside a shopping mall. it's called the mall just outside of washington d.c. not far from baltimore, maryland. it's a very sizable mall. you've got four big department stores. about 200 stores in all.
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what took place at about 11:15 a.m. eastern time, according to howard police and ems there was an active shooting underway inside that shopping mall at 11:15 a.m. eastern time. fast forward a couple hours, we understand confirmation three people have been killed in the shooting. among those dead is believed to be the gunman. a body found near ammunition. no identification at this juncture. we have talked to a number of employees from this mall who say it was an ordinary, very busy saturday at the topping mall. and all of a den sudden, they heard gunshots. the instinct was to run to a safe place, closet, storerooms inside some of those stores. some of the patrons did the same thing.
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it was the intikt of some of the other employees to begin shutting the gates separating the individual stores from the regular traffic outside the mall. and then one by one, many of those stores were approached by law enforcement, some in uniform, some not in uniform to try and check on the id of people, trying to look for any other potential active shooters and then some of these employees and some of the patrons were allowed to exit the mall. this as all been unfolding within the last coupling ho-- couple hours. we still have not heard an all clear in terms of whether they believe law enforcement has apprehended all of the active shooter or shooters, but we do understand that some people -- you're see ago lot more traffic of pedestrians, people holding hands with their children, moms and dads leaving the mall, going
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to the parking lot, getting in their cars. we've been seeing some of those people get in their car and simply be able to exit. but no one is being allowed to enter the mall area. a press conference will take place in about six or so minutes or now. unclear whether that will be right before the cameras, but of course we'll get the information as immediately as we can. we also have on the phone with us right now tom fuentes who is formerly with the fbi. when you live in the washington d.c. metropolitan area, you may frequent all of these places. i grew up in the washington d.c. area. i grew up going to columbia, maryland, mall. we heard from our photo journalist who lives there. when you have any incidents that take place in that d.c. area, it means that not only do you have the local jurisdiction law enforcement, but you have
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neighboring authorities and sometimes you have federal authorities. so give me an idea, if you will, tom, a situation like this, how you have all of these authorities working together to try to contain the situation, assist to those who are injured, apprehend those who are involved. >> law enforcement agencies work just like fire departments and provide mutual aid to each other when someone needs help. so it's no different with federal, state and local law enforcement. in this case, howard downdy, the sheriff's office there is in charge of this case. this will be their investigation. everybody else that's been called by them is being called to provide some form of assistan assistance, either sheer manpower to help set up perimeters and clear the mall, look in every closet and ever store to make sure that they have all the people accounted for. the fact that you're so close to a number of federal agencies doesn't give the federal
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agencies control of the investigation. >> but they're quick to be in a supportive role. >> strictly supportive. if it was a terrorism case, then the f best of my recollection i would -- fbi would have the lead. here, you know, it sounds like howard county has the jurisdiction and the howard county sheriff, therefore, will run the investigation and will direct the other assets from other agencies as they arrive to provide assistance. >> i'm going to ask you to hold tight for a minute. i know we have you on the phone. but we are expecting a news conference in a matter of minutes there in howard county involving the shooting. it's believed according to authorities that among the dead is at least one gunman whose body was found near ammunition and the gun. no id as of yet.
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in a couple minutes, there are be a press conference or some type of briefing. we're going to take a short break and we'll have much more on this mall shooting in columbia, maryland, right after this. [ tires screech ] [ car alarm chirps ] ♪ [ male announcer ] we don't just certify our pre-owned vehicles. we inspect, analyze, and recondition each one, until it's nothing short of a genuine certified pre-owned mercedes-benz for the next new owner. [ car alarm chirps ] hurry in to your authorized mercedes-benz dealer for 1.99% financing during our certified pre-owned sales event through february 28th.
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taking place, a deadly shooting taking place at the mall in columbia, maryland outside of washington d.c. three confirmed dead. among the dead is one shooter whose body was located near ammunition and a good. we have not received any identification of the three people. just confirmation that three have been killed. we also understand, as you continue to look at a lot of live images, a number of people are being allowed to exit. we have seen a number of children holding the hands with their parents. this, of course, is saturday in the middle of the day. busy day for shopping. we have heard from a number of employees who were at the mall at the time of the shooting. they heard the gunshots. naturally, some of the shoppers came into the stores looking for safe places. employees did the same thing. and then, of course, were approached by offices whether
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they be plain clothes or even in uniform. a lot of the employees talk about the confusion when some of the plain clothes officers came to the stores and even the employees having the natural instinct to question the authorities not even sure who would be responsible for the shooting. in the end, a number of folks have been able to exit. employees, shoppers leave the mall safely and have quite the story to tell about harrowing accounts there at the mall in columb columbia, maryland. when the press conference takes place, we'll be able to try to get that information to you immediately if not having a signal when it happens. meantime, judy hoffman was a shopper in the mall. she's on the phone with us now. where are you now? >> actually. i'm not a shopper. >> okay. >> i'm a manager at fire and ice at the columbia mall.
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it's a very unique, fascinating store. we sell jewelry, fossils a number of -- >> so what happened? what happened while you were in the store today? >> when i was in the store, i was waiting on a customer and i happened so see people running toward nordstrom. and i said, what's going on, why is everybody running. so i stepped out to the door and asked one of the girls running. she said there's been a shooting. and at that time i said, oh my gosh, i came in. i left my customers know that for their safety they were allowed to walk the hallway or go out to nordstroms because i knew it was in the food court. so at that time, we closed the door. you know, i contacted our director of sales and let her know what was going on. and we were in the back room waiting. you know, we turned off our lights and stayed in the back
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room to wait for further information while she was on, you know, looking at the tv trying to find some information out. but the mall did finally contact under the circumstances approximately about 12:30, quarter to 1:00. >> how? how did they contact you? what do you mean? >> there's a service that they have here. they call you on your phone to let you know. but it took a while. i had to find out what was going on before they called us. >> what was the message that they conveyed to you on your personal phone? >> the message that they conveyed to me is that you are to -- there has been an incident in the mall. we advise you to close your doors and seek shelter in your back rooms if possible. >> okay. and you already knew to do that you're saying, though? by the time you received that, you already had that instruction from your store that you're to close the door, seek shelter in a closed room or closet, though,
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correct? >> absolutely. that's the roul of thumb. you close your door. you get people to safety. i knew it was on the other side of the mall, so i knew it was, you know, okay for us to close the door and make that phone call. >> how long -- go ahead. >> meantime i did call 911 to see if it was true. sometimes you just don't know what goes on if it's, you know, true tore not. because i didn't hear any shots. that's on the other side of the mall. once i called howard county police, they did say, yes, ma'am, please seek shelter. the mall did call back again not too long ago and said they will be around to escort us out of the mall. >> sounds like good instincts. another -- a number of other employees. it seems like good intipgts have kicked in about knowing what to
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do, knowing when to question or even doubt what you're hearing. so for how long do you believe you may have been, you know, in that safe place in the store before you got an all clear and in what way did you receive an all clear that it's time for you to exit safely? >> we're not clear yet. we're still -- we're still in our store right now. i -- you know, i have an associate that works for me that's here right now with me and we're just waiting for the police, which i just heard they're on their way on this side of the mall. because this incident happened on the other side of the mall. so we're waiting for them to come and give us the okay and escort us out of my building. >> what are you hearing? what kind osounds, noises, what are you hearing while you continue to stay in your store? are you hearing the voices of police? can you tell what's going on outside of your store? >> i did hear probably
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approximately about a half an hour ago, i did hear the helicopter land on -- i'm soouming on our -- assuming on our roof to come and get those people or investigator or whatever happened over there. i don't know. i'm just hearing what you're saying on cnn. >> okay. >> >> you know, it's quiet. like i said, i'm at an anchor store. near an anchor store. there's still people upstairs. i can look out and see people in their stores waiting. >> can i ask you to hold on for a moment and not disconnect. i want to continue our conversation in a moment. right now erin mcpike is there at the mall. oh darn. looks like we lost that signal. tom, i don't know how much of the conversation you were able to hear with judy. if you were able to hear it, and
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she talks about, you know, hearing the gunshots, knowing that there was something going on but not really certain about what and calling 911 herself to ask for confirmation. it seems as though her instincts were pretty im -- impeccable. >> i had the same impression, that she was very composed and took the right actions based on what she had heard. after receiving the message from the mall system, trying to confirm that herself. she responded correctly all the way through in that situation. >> so, tom, what does -- the information that we have thus far, what does it tell you about what could have happened here? we talked earlier about how some
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federal officers would respond. what does this tell you about what howard police would have on their hands here? >> tells me they're looking at this as a homicide. possibly a homicide with a suicide. in any i vent, a death investigation that does not appear to involve international or domestic trichl or organized crime or an international drug cartel. you're ruling out federal jurisdiction and then the homicide itself remains up to howard county to be in charge of the investigation. >> and earlier you talked about how this is a pain staking process. it would take a long time to give the all clear completely. there are a lot of things that have to take place during the investigation trying to secure this location. what are some of those steps that have to be taken before authorities feel comfortable that a lockdown can be lifted and that business can resume?
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>> the fact that you have 200 stores means you have 200 back rooms, 200 storage close ets. you would have other mall utility closets that would have to be searched. someone may have ran in there to hide when they heard the shooting. or another shooter could always run somewhere and hide. also you'll have the investigation of the individuals who have been located and are dead and including the individual that they believe may be the shooter. they'll be trying to see if that person has identification, if he has a cell phone or other device on him that would, you know, have information of communication, who he may have been talking to leading up to the event by telephone, by internet, by e-mail. so that will continue. then, of course, will be a different process looking at all
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of the security cameras from every store, from the mall itself. inside the stores, inside the common areas, the walkways, the entry ways as well as the vehicles in the parking lot. they'll try to reconstruct the steps taken by the shooter or others that they may believe may be involved and try to trace that person from the time he or she arrived at the mall as they walked through the mall into the location or to the location that has now become the crime scene. so all of that investigation will continue, you know, by many people. it will involve a lot of extra help and that's why howard county would reach out for the state police or neighboring local law enforcement agencies and if necessary, other federal agencies. >> and in a situation like this, once people have been questioned, you know, probed inside, will they be releasing
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patrons, you know, shoppers, employees in phases? because we are seeing -- every now and then we see a stream of people, but not all at once. >> well, yes. and i think you interviewed earlier than individual that was in the mall and has been allowed to stsh to loef and go home. and so others have been allowed to leave and go home. as i mentioned earlier, they're not going to want to keep hundreds and hundreds of people held in that mall indefinitely. it requires extra manpower that they don't need to waste on that kind of effort. and you're, they're not going to want to inconvenience innocent people anymore than necessary for the conducting of the investigation. so in this situation, as they determine and use their judgment that an individual is not involved, is not a victim, is not a witness. just happened to be in the mall, either employee or shopper they're going to let them go. that's what we've been seeing
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already. >> we're looking at aerial shot. while the majority of the at this time or investigation is inside the mall, we can see that it's very snowy there. one has to wonder if at all would weather like this impact the investigation or law enforcement's business there. >> i don't think it will. i mean unless they come up with a vehicle to certainly outside that's parked -- search outside that's parked in the mall and it would probably then tow it to an indoor location to do a comprehensive forensic examination of it. >> at a mall like this of this size, would there be cameras on the exterior and if so, is it throughout the parking lot or a narrow scope throughout the doors, exit points of a mall like this. >> no as we've seen at other
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investigations, cameras are everywhere. so you'll have -- the stores themselves will have cameras inside. and then the mall will have cameras at the entry points, in the common walkway areas, in the center of l mat and then also in the parking lot. there will be outdoor cameras focussed probably on the entire parking lot. so they should have the ability to have a pretty good look at it. it may be difficult from those cameras to determine if the person was wearing winter clothing or had the face cove d covered, it may not be easy to pick that person out. but that's the effort that they'll be making now is to try to identify the single shooter or more than one person involved and retrace their steps back to where they arrived at the mall in the first place. >> all right. thank you so much, tom. i know you're not going to go far. momentarily, though, we're going
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to erin mcpike who's there oud the mall -- outside the mall. be patient with us at home because there sa a great delay on our communication. what are you hearing and learning? >> reporter: well, in about five minutes or so, we believe that there is going to be a press conference to start just right here. we're seeing officials come. so we're going to jump out of the way pretty soon as soon as they come to tell us what happened. i have talked to a number of people inside at the time. they were on the second level. we understand that the shooting was on the food court level which is the bottom level which is between the sears and the jp penny. we have the press conference starting. we will bring that to you in
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just a few minutes. >> thank you so much. so in a moment, they will about to -- are about to get started and we'll take that live as it happens. again, howard police there presumably handing out some information and elaborating further as as soon as they were to take the microphone. three confirmed dead at this mall shooting at the mall in columbia, maryland outside of washington d.c. let's see if we can hear. >> okay. so, please keep in mind we are about two hours into this investigation, okay. we are already hearing with you everything that we've been able to so far. please stay on top of following our twitter account @hcpdnews. we are posting minute by minute information. first, right now we're going to hear from the county executive and the chief of police.
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they will take some questions, but again we're sharing ever detail we know right now. we expect to do another briefing at 4:00 and hopefully we'll have more information at that time. turning it over now to ulman. i'm the county exec tooif here in howard county maryland. i want to just make a few moint points. first of all, we do have three confirmed fatalities. so we want to send our thoughts and prayers to the family members of the victims, the loved ones of the victims. i want to thank the public of howard county here in columbia for their patience ch the folks here at the columbia mall for their patience. all of the shoppers, the other folks that work here at the
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mall, this has obviously been a tremendously trying few hours and we've seen a lot of patient shens. we'd ask that people continue to bear with us. this is an active crime scene. is it going to be an active crime scene for some time. another briefing around 4:00 with more details and potentially when the mall will reopen. lastly, i want to thank our brave men and women in law enforcement here in howard county who rushed into the scene immediately. this was an incredibly well-run, thoughtful operation tactically with a lot of help from our neighboring agencies. we've had help on the ground and continue to have help on the ground from virtually every police department in our region including the state police. now i want to bring up our police chief bill mcman who has been leading this operation on the ground.
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thank you. >> thank you mr. checktive. bill mcmahon. let me echo some of his comments. as you can imagine this is a very complex and trying scene for everybody that's involved. and i know it's also causes great concern in the community. we, again, we thank our communities for their patience and their understanding. and the friend in the media, we certainly appreciate your understanding as well. we are giving you information as soon as we received it. because we know how much of a concern there is when something like this happens in such a public place as the mall. about 11:15, our 911 received a call for shots fired at the mall. we had officers get into the area. we were able to identify three victims at an upper level store in the columbia mall.
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one of those victims appears to be the shooter. and at this point, and again, please bear with me. this is two hours and 15 minutes into the incident. there's still a lot of details that we need to confirm. right now, we think that one of the deceased is, in fact, the shooter. we do not think at this point that there's anymore shooters in and around the mall. please think about this on a saturday afternoon at the mall how many people may be in there. when something like this happens, people run in many directions and they do what we've trained people to do and that's to shelter in place. right now, we have many, many people still in the mall that have secured themselves inside stores. our swat teams with a lot of support from agencies throughout the state at the local state and federal level frankly, are going through as we are holding this press conference, they are inside continuing to clear the
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mall to make sure there are no more victims. we want to make sure there are not. and to get to the people who have self sheltered in place out and make sure none of them have any injuries either from the shooting, but also any injuries that may have occurred in that process when people do shelter. that's what's going on actively behind me in the pal as we are -- mall as we are out here. we do not have the identity of the victims yet. we do not have a motive for the shooting. again, this is two hours and 15 minutes into the scene. we are still trying to secure the mall to make sure, again, that there's nobody else injured. and we are getting our investigators into that crime scene to start doing their work which be enable me to answer some of those questions you have that frankly i just can't answer right now. i'll take a few questions.
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before i do -- before i do, let me again thank the columbia mall. we have a great relationship with them and actually have drilled on this in the past. that experience has been very beneficial to us. we'd like to thank, again, our public for their patience. we have drubt -- disrupted a lot of people. i know there's a lot of people at home concerned. we understand that. that's why we're working as quickly as we can to identify the victims. i'd like to thank all the support we've had from law enforcement, emergency manage, again, local, state and federal level. >> can you provide the genders at least? >> i cannot provide the jepders or the ages. >> can police chief, can you describe where this exactly happened in the food court and what types of weapons -- >> i didn't say it was at the
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food court. i'm not going to identify which store that is right now. and your other question was? >> what types of weapons were recovered? >> again, we have not gotten the investigators in there yet. >> was there a domestic issue involved here? >> adds i said earlier, we don't know a motive yet. please understand what we're trying to deal with. our investigators haven't gotten a chance to get in there to try to get to a motive. >> have been speaking to witnesses, do they give an indication of there was an argument, altercation, the people knew each other or a random event where somebody pulled a gun and starts shooting? >> yeah, i don't have that information yet. i just don't have that information yet. we are -- we are very confident that it was a single shooter, that there's no other shooters in the mall or anything like that. >> did law enforcement fire in this at all?
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>> we have not. >> can you describe the scene as you understand it. did this shooting happen were there were a lot of people around? we've had people tell us they saw people drop. >> it was in a store in the upper level of the mall. you know how many people are in this mall on a saturday afternoon. i don't have all the particulars about where people were. believe me, i understand the importance of those questions and we will get them to you. >> how do you think officers responded in the mall? how do you think they did? >> yeah, i don't have enough information to know. but i sense that because we have so many that sheltered in place they did what they thought they did and they did what we have encouraged people to do in these situations. some of these people still in there. i don't know. but i -- you know, the fact that it's fairly -- you know, we
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didn't have stampedes and didn't have anyone else injured. >> are the witnesses in the mall, are they free to go? >> our detectives are talking with the people as they come out of the mall to see what they say, what they didn't. >> is this situation where someone shot two people and shot him or herself? >> two hours and 15 minutes into that, that is what we have reason to believe, but again, very -- situation. many people have not been spoken to yet, so i can't confirm that but that is certainly what it appears to be at this point. i'm sorry? >> i don't know how many shots were fired. >> did they find all three dead at that point, the first group in? >> i'm not sure what order. but, yes, they were all found kind of at the same time. >> the prums from the police department was so get -- was it regular patrol officers? >> regular patrol officers went
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in. we also had specially trained officers, part of our swat team that were in this area for another assignment. were fortunate to have those very well prepared officers to support our patrol officers very, very quickly. we went in there very quickly. >> do you have any idea how long from the first 911 call to the first officer on the scene. >> i'm not sure but i'm make sure we have that for you at 4:00. all the activity took place at one time in one store. >> when the first place found the deceased shooter, he was deceased at that time? >> that's my understanding at this point. so that's all the questions that i'll take right now. again, we'll be back at 4:00. believe me, i'm very sensitive to the need to get these questions answered. again, thank you for your patience. >> were the two others
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injured -- >> you're listening to police chief there describe that it is believed there is just one shooter. he says he is confident that there is a single shooter and all three people are dead at that mall shooting taking place about 11:15 eastern time earlier today. he says among those dead, that single shooter. he would not reveal the ages or gender of any of the three. he did say that they continue to try to secure the mall because it appears that many people did what they have been instructed to do, which is find a safe, secure place. so they continue to -- law enforcement continues to scour through the mall looking for any people who may be still in storage areas or closets doing all the things people are supposed to do to try and stay safe. mike brooks is back on the phone with me now.
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we heard from the police chief talking about the cooperative effort involving state, local -- local, law enforcement and even federal agencies there. it appears as though howard county police is taking the lead on this investigation. again, though, mike there are still people, shoppers, employees that are in that mall because it's going to take some time to secure the area. what did you hear from that press conference that you thought was particularly compelling? >> from the very time they got the 911 call to the time the officers were there on the scene, patrol officers, and then some of the more highly-trained swat members who happened to be in the area working on another assignment right now, i can tell you i'm listening to what's going on there at the scene. they've got 90% of the stores cleared. he talked about the cooperation with local, state and federal. they've got tactical from
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montgomery county, u.s. marshall service, alcohol tobacco firearms and explosives that are part of these teams that are clearing this entire mall. as i said, it's about 90% clear. they're meeting with the member ever on the the -- of the criminal investigation bureau. so again, methodical as tom and i were talking about it, slow methodical process, but it's one that has to be done just to make sure that that whole mall is cleared before they can move on and process it as a crime scene. >> and of course, as they continue to investigate, the police chief saying there at this juncture it's unclear about the motive. unclear whether there was an argument prior to the shooting. unclear about the relationship between the shooter and the victims in this case. and of course, there continues
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to be some questioning that has to involve those who may have been injured and transported to the hospitals. and i think as we look at some images right now, mike, it's unclear whether those appear to be shoppers that have -- been allowed to exit the building or whether that's law enforcement from this vantage point. but you can hear the police chief under score that people are being allowed to leave piece by piece but of course not all at once. >> looks to me like these are shoppers and possibly employees that they're allowing to leave. right before the press conference, the woman judy, she had to hang up because one of the swat teams was there to get them out of the store and to bring them to safety. so, again, that -- and she said she's on the opposite end. but -- so that just tells you the, you know, specific nature that the swat teams are going through each one of the stores
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and bringing everyone out to safety. as you heard the chief say that investigators are asking people as they're leaving, you know, if you saw something or heard something that they want to be interviewed. >> in a case like this, and now you can see more clearly those people have handbags so it's clear that these are shoppers. so in a case like that, would law enforcement get the names and numbers of everybody upon exit just in case they have questions that need to be asked later. >> not everybody. i know when we would have an incident like this, we would get an area where the people who are closest to the shooting that would have the most information, we would want to take formal statements from them. other people we would fwoed and try to get -- go ahead and get their names. but if you had somebody at the opposite end and all they heard were shots, they're not going to need names addresses to contact them later. more specifically the people closer to the incident when it occurred and maybe had contact
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with the shooter as the shooter was coming into the mall. >> okay. all right. we also have new images coming. in these images show swat team members that are entering the mall or at least entering that property. we did hear from the police chief that swat teams were involved here. what would be their role in a case like this? >> they're working as teams. you see the teams going in. that's one of the teams i was speaking about from the different jurisdictions that would go in as a four or five person team. they're the ones clearing the stores. it's very well originganized systematic certainly certainly -- search in the mall. each team has a specific assi assignme assignment. they would go to j.c. penny,
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we're done with that. they would identify themselves and to the command post. and very, very well run operation that i've been listening to. we see a maryland state trooper right there in his tactical fweer. they're all there. again, assisting as tom said on the federal side, just assisting howard county just because of the sheer size of this mall and of the possible crime scene. you know, but howard county is in the lead. their criminal investigative bureau will be the one investigating this. you need as many tactical elements as you can. that's why they have such a great relationship in the washington, baltimore, d.c. area when it comes to mutual aid of law enforcement. we're two hours into this and you have all these jurisdictions that are already there suited up in the process of searching this mall. i say that just is an
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unbelievable operation. >> yeah. typically great cooperation. thanks so much. don't go far away. we're going to check in with erin mcpike. while there is this concert of law enforcement working together, you know, folks who live in that area, the last thing they would think of something like this happening at the mall in columbia, a mall i froekted as a -- frequented as a kid. it's certainly a place people to this day think of a very safe, close knit community there. you still heard from a number of the shopters and the -- shoppers and the employees that we've had a chance to talk to. even though nothing like this is expected to happen there, they all i know tipgttively seemed to know what to do. try and find a safe place within the stores, within the mall. the police chief under scored that he applauds that many knew to take shelter in place. tell us more about what you're learning there outside this
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mall. >> reporter: well, fred, as you said people are obviously very surprised at what happened at this place. and one of our producers here said he was on his way to come and have lunch here all the time. he tells us that's there's usually a police car parked between the j.c. penny and the sears. there are often police officers inside the mall. so it's -- yes, it is very safe. as you mentioned people did shelter in place right away. we have spoken to a number of people inside the mall i talked to one woman who heard thee shots. another heard eight to ten shots, but as soon as all of these people heard shots they immediately ran in to stores, to shelter in place. some obviously are still inside.
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talked to a couple there for an hour. but they're methodically letting people out of the mall and taking them on buses to other locations, fred, but that is still ongoing. we're supposed to have another press conference at about 4:00 this afternoon when we should get nmore details. the police chief wasn't ready to give more details because the investigation is still going on, obviously. >> okay. erin, just to explain to viewers. there is a great delay between our communication. there's nothing wrong with your television set at home, but earlier, the police chief talked about the fact that he can't release the gender, even the names or identity of the bodies, but he said they are most certain that it appears to have been just, he says, in his words, he's confident there was a single shooting, a single shooter involved here and that the other two people, we don't know the stories as to how they were victimized in this case, but this is what he had to say earlier about the victims and
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the suspected shooter. >> so about 11:15 this morning, our 911 center received a number of calls for shots fired at the columbia mall. we had officers quickly get into the area and we were able to identify three victims at an upper level store in the columbia mall. one of those victims appears to be the shooter. and at this point and, again, please, bear with me. this is two hours, 2:15 minutes into the incident. there's still a lot of details we need to confirm, but right now we think one of the deceased is in fact the shooter. >> all right. erin mcpike now, you mentioned that outside of the mall where you're standing you are seeing some of the customers or perhaps even employees who were allowed to exit, and i can't help but notice when they do exit everyone is walking in a single file. do you know whether that is, you know, the instruction everyone is given. you have to walk in single file
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until escorted either to the shuttle buses, you mentioned, or to their vehicles? >> reporter: well, fred, we did see that as well, from the very beginning, an hour to an hour and a half ago, those single file lines. we tried to talk to some of those people as they were coming out of the store and getting on to those buses, but we were shooed away, basically from them, so that they could get on to those buses. i think they were trying to do that in an orderly fashion as you mentioned. but -- that still is happening now. i mean, i guess you can maybe see in some of our other images that is still going on, but, fred, we talked to a lot of people, too, who came out without coats on. justhappening as they can get
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out. i think it will go on another couple of hours. >> thanks so much. a painstaking process and the police chief underscored that. erin mcpike, thank you so much. very cold and snow think in columbia, maryland, where now it continues to be an investigative scene on what is a crime scene there at the mall in columbia, maryland, outside of washington, d.c. not far from baltimore as well. you're looking at the live images right now. law enforcement outside the mall. three confirmed dead. one believed to be the shooter, according to police there. we're going to continue to keep tabs on this situation. much more coverage right here from the "newsroom" right after this.
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welcome back to the "newsroom." we continue to watch developments in a crime scene at shopping mall in howard county, maryland. just outside washington, d.c. not far from baltimore, maryland, at the mall in columbia, maryland, where police are confirming three people are dead, and police are saying they're confident that one of the dead is the shooter, which they believe there was only a single shooter in this situation, however, there continue to be shoppers and even employees in the mall. the mall has not been considered secure. it has not been emptied of people. it is a painstaking process. it will take some time. the shooting taking place at
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11:15 a.m., according to the 911 call, and howard county police. just after two hours later a lot of people allowed to excess it the mall after being checked and double checked. every corner of this mall is being investigated. looked at, because many people, naturally, instincted kicked into high gear. they sheltered in place, whether they found closets or storage rooms inside stores. many store managers and employees shut the gates and the doors of their stores separating themself off to the mall, but we understand according to howard county police, the shooting taking place in a store on the second floor. many people heard gunshots and that's when their instincts kicked in, finding those secure, safe locations, but in the end, it appears, though, police are now treating this as crime scene. they say there are three bodies. they will not release information about the genders or the ages of these bodies.
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they're not releasing identification of these bodies as yet. we have team coverage under way right now. our own erin mcpike who is there outside the shopping mall. we have our security analyst, mike brooks, who's checked in with us, and checking his sources. we also have former fbi employee tom fuentes, also with us. back with us, in fact, now out of fairfax, virginia. so, tom, while the police chief made it very clear they are not ready to give an all-clear yet. there are still people inside. this is a methodical process, there is to be very careful. while the police chief said she confident there was a single shooter, it's still unclear whether anybody else involved in this crime may still be in the mall. so give us an idea of just how law enforcement works together on this, because there are many jurisdictions involved here, and how howard county police take the lead to try to make sure that everyone they're in contact with in the mall is an innocent
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bystander, so to speak. >> the fact chief mcmahon said they believe there's no other person involved, that's a pretty strong statement to make. so i don't think it's just sheer speculation. they've got enough investigation that's been conducted by his people to make a determination that that one person or one or more persons that are dead at the scene, that's all they're looking for. that there's no one else involved. no one else at large with a gun that poses any other danger. either in the mall or out in the parking lot or anywhere else. so i think that was a pretty clear statement on his part that the danger is over. that the scene is contained. it's now a crime scene. and i think that that's one of the most exceptional press conferences by a law enforcement executive i've seen in a long time. >> what do you xbleen whmean? what was so prominent to you? >> the fact he put
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