>> pleasure. thank you so much. >> cheers. all right. coming up in a few moments we will have more here in the "cnn will have more here in the "cnn newsroom." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com as promised, hello, e everyone, i'm miguel marcus, and you are in the cnn newsroom. a crowded mall turned into instantly a violent crime scene. a man in maryland, columbia opened up a shotgun in a skater shot zume's. >> the identity of the shooter, we don't know yet, and when the officers approached, he was obviously deceased, but he was also still had a large amount of ammunition still on and about him.

and so, because of concerns about any other weapons that he may have or explosives with we are approaching this with an abundance of caution, and we are getting assists and the from the federal partners in making sure that there are no explosives on the body of the deceased. >> just in the past few minutes we have learned the names of the man and woman killed in the mall attack. they are 21-year-old brianna ben lolo of college park, maryland, and tyler johnson from that area in that skate store. and the police say they got the first emergency call to zumiez and they were on site within two minutes. with e know that one was injured by gun fire and others by the

shooter. and there is a lot that we don't know what is going on n. what do we need to know right now? >> well, right now, the investigators don't know the motive and what it is, and there is some talk of whether it is a domestic dispute is what a fellow investigator at one point told cnn but the howard county police have not confirmed, and they say it is possible, but the police chief said that they don't know the identity of the shooter. he apparently had lots of ammunition on him, and they thought that perhaps he could have had explosives on him, but it took a long time for them to get through all of that, and so we don't know the identity of the shooter. we also of course don't know when the mall is going to open again. this is a big crime scene all day long, and the mall op eratos the are basically going to have to determine when that is going to be and the howard county executives don't yet know when that is going to be, miguel. >> all right. erin mcpike for us in columbia, maryland. thank you, erin, for keeping track of it all for us.

and the clolumbian american mall was open, and those who were witnesses described what they heard in the terrifying minut minutes. >> i was in the back of the store working with my co-worker, and all of the sudden two people run through the back of our back room saying that somebody is in the mall shooting. some people were going towards the one exit, and a lot of other people who didn't know where the exits were, they were going the other way and hiding out in romney rooms. >> and people started running and they said that somebody is down there running with a gun and i heard at least 8 to 10 gunshots. >> i heard shots fire and i saw a kid and three people fall to the ground, and i grabbed the kid and ran and the mother followed me. >> people left their strollers and kates and bags and everything. shoes. i saw people's shoes just sitting there, and food knocked over and everybody just started to run, and kids were running, and you just ran and ran to the

nearest place you could find. >> and we were in the back room waiting and we turned off our lights and stayed in the back room to wait for further information. >> we were in the back of the room in the fitting store area, and literally just -- and where do you go? you are in a fitting room area, and if somebody is going to come in, you are just as vulnerable. >> i did call 911 to see if it is true. they said yes, ma'am, please seek shelter. and i did hear the helicopter land on the -- i assume on the roof. >> and everyone was scared. it with was chaotic at the time. and people running by the score, and people ducking down on the floor and in the candy store. but we just kind of took control and said, come on guys and got never the back room. >> it was just crazy and one of those things that you see it on tv, but you never expect to go through it. >> there are a number of times

of people getting out of their armored vehicles and the s.w.a.t. team coming in. >> and people were going store to store to tell people to get out and now everybody left and not all of the stores closed the doors, and so they were looking in each and every store trying to find the guy, i guess. a lot of the kids were crying and a mothers were holding on to them and shaking and not knowing what is going on. >> and now, zumies, the store where it occurred has released a statement expressing condolences to those who died and are injured today and they are arranging for counseling services forrer the employees, and i want to bring in lou palumbo who can talk to the scenes in general. one thing we have heard over and again is how quickly they responded and how fast they went in. >> that is the training they received. as you have listened to them on numerous occasions this evening, you are finding that the law

enforce enforcement agencies are training in facilities exactly like this mall, schools, office buildings, all different types of environments that they might have to insert themselves into, to mitigate a process like this. >> and this is nothing to expect to have happen out there, and if you are a citizen, what is the best advice? >> well, if you are a citizen caught in the situation, they would like you to shelter in place and request the assistance right away and the same thing we learn in law enforce. >> don't run? >> no, running is not the best alternative and you could run yourself right into the problem. shelter in place, and most people are carrying the cell phones and call 911, and give them as much information as you can. >> and when you say shelter, not under a desk, but block it and know that you are away from the danger. >> something that affords you the maximum amount of cover. >> thank you, lou. we will talk to you more today.

thank you for all of the help this afternoon. today's shooting in maryland is the sixth straight day of gun violence in malls or other public place. we will explain why coming up. it's out there somewhere spreading the good word about idaho potatoes and raising money for meals on wheels. but we'd really like our truck back, so if you see it, let us know, would you? thanks. what?

>> and now, today is the sixth day in a row that a public place or school was the scene of a gun-related emergency and check this out, every day this past week police have responded to a school campus shooting or a lockdown campus.

the week began with a student shot and wounded at the universi university of philadelphia area, and the teachers' assistant was killed tuesday when a student was gunned down outside of the dormitory at south carolina state university on friday. it is a street that should fill us all with a sense of concern and joining us are the criminal defense attorney holly hughes and from new york clinical psychologist jeff gardare and also from los angeles. and have you seen anything like this? >> no, i have seen that happen or i can do that now, or seeing what happened there and that makes me so, makes me so emboldened to go out the do the same thing, and this is a real phenomenon when we see one thing happening after another, there s is a connection there, and i think that a lot of the folks involved knew what was going on

during the week. >> holly, you defend criminals. do you -- is there something in the water? what is going on out there? are we seeing more of these? what is happening? >> well, we are seeing more of these, and as we discussed earlier, miguel, it is not one simple answer. you cannot say it is all because of the lack of gun control or say it is all because of lack of men h tall health treatment, because it is a kcombination of all of these things, and the rise in violence that our children are subjected to that we didn't have 20, 30 years ago, and lou was talking about that, and we see it in the entertain thement, and in the video games, and it is all of these things combined, and unfortunately, it is go g ing to take everybody coming to the table to find a solution. we can't legislate what might happen in the future. unfortunately the criminal justice system is left with what do we do with the people who are committing the crimes, and we are on the back end of it. we need to come together, and all three of us, and we have law

en s forment here, and we have mental health represented and then me, and i used to be a prosecutor, and solocked the gu up and now i defend them, and so everybody has to come to the table, and everybody has to participate in finding the solution. >> and lou, from a law enforcement per ekspective, and the law enforcement is very good at responding to things once they have happened, but how do you get around it? do we become security fortress america? >> well, no, we have to realize that what we are experiencing in this country today with the shooting and the level of violence that we live with day to day is not the problem, but the symptom of the problem, number one. and number two, we have to look at at the responsibility of law enfor enforcement, and this other interesting concept known as problem solving. and problem solving is not lead ing the general public into thinking that if we pass gun law s that the violence or the anger

issues that jeffrey pointed out earlier are going to go away. we need to get to the root of the problem and we need to identify what has happened to the culture, and why it is deteriorating and what is going on with the mental and the emotional state of young children and the demographic of 18 to 25 years old. >> and jeff, hundreds of millions of guns out there, and even if we had restrictive gun laws and kept anybody from buying a gun ever again in america, it would not solve the issue. >> it would not solve the issue and the colleagues are absolutely correct, it takes a mul multi-layered approach, however, i do believe if we have something that is going to be solved this the next 5 or 10 years, but it is something that is going to happen maybe 15 or 20 years down the road if we start looking at the gun control legislation now, and if we start to look at plugging the mental the health issues, and loopholes so that people can get universal health kcare, and if we look at working in the schools with the people that we identify, and

whom has ainnger issues and personality disorders whom we can begin working with, and then we will have a solution, and it is going to the take many years, but i will disagree with the colleagues saying that it does begin with the gun laws, and we have to get the guns off of the street. >> and holly, you were a prosecutor and now a defense attorney, and what do you see, you know, you don't see it as guns, i take it, but what do you see that is getting at the american society right now and why is this happening so often? >> well, part of it is guns. but like i said, why do they pick up the gun? i have seen on the twitter feed recent recently since we have been having this discussion, and people are upset, you support guns and you work for the nra. hello, people! we have a united states constitution, and the guarantee is that citizens have a right to bear p arms. that is not going to go away, and somebody on twitter said, let's take everybody's guns away across the board. it is not going to happen,

because there is a constitution that guarantees us the right to carry it, and the problem is are we doing the appropriate background checks? are we talking for the mental health issues before we let people get guns, and then, all of the illegal drugs on the street. that is what the problem is. >> and there's no such thing as single causality and the reality of the situation is that there is not going to be a simg fix. when we start to talk about the gun legislation, we have to learn that concept of problem-solving and legitimate probl problem-solving to where the two polarized opposites can bring themselves to the middle and start to present a for u m that is going to fix this. >> and lou, it can't be a partisan issue. it cannot be a partisan issue. >> gentlemen, we live in hope. that is all i can say. thank you all for joining us today. >> thank you. >> thank you. and the largest retail chain may be the latest victim of a data breach. that story is coming up next.

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now police in maryland have released the names of the two people killed today in the mall shooting there according to the howard police, brianna benlolo, aged 21, and tyler johnson were gunned down inside of the store they worked. the shooter is also dead apparently with a self-inflicted gunshot wound. five others injured and now they

have all been released from the hospitals, and the police have not released the motive for the shoot shooting. a texas judge has ordered a woman who is pregnant and brain dead from vent ilators marking the likely end of a painful and legal saga. her husband eric menoz has been asking for the judge to act and the hospital to act on the order. and michaels revealed what it calls possible fraudulent acti activity on some of the chain's credit cards. the chain's ceo has not confirmed the breach, but he wanted to alert the customers anyway, and they do not know how many customers may have been affected or when they may have shopped at michaels. and now fallout continues over justin bieber's arrest in florida and the circumstances around his wild night of drinking and drugging, and the

pop star is charged with driving with an expired driver's license and drinking and drugging. and police may change charges in the next week or so after tests show that he had not been drinking. so there is a melee and nobody knows where he is, and he say ths that you all are worthy no matter what anyone says, and my beliebers changed my life and i will be forever grateful. and so, yes, bieber has broken the silence at least on twitter, and that is not all he has to say, and with e will show you what else he is tweeting these day days and why a lot of people are angry. that is next. the day we rescued riley was a truly amazing day.

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and our giant idaho potato truck is still missing. so my dog and i we're going to go find it. it's out there somewhere spreading the good word about idaho potatoes and raising money for meals on wheels. but we'd really like our truck back, so if you see it, let us know, would you? thanks. what? hours after he posted bail, there with was this photo of the singer hanging out in south beach. the table is filled with bottles of booze. and then bieber posted this on instagram, a photo of him leaving the jail and juxtaposed to michael jackson waving to the

crowd after his child molestation trial in 1994. i want to bring back in holly hughes, and samantha shocker from the young turks network, and jeff gardare, what is the message of the biebs here? >> that he is being persecuted p by the law enforcement, and persecuted by the media, and that he is innocent, and in some ways he is innocent, and he is a 19-year-old and acting out the teen angst in the world. a lot of pressures and not handling the stardom the way he should, but he feels like he is a victim and in fact, he is not a victim, but he has to take control. >> and he is certainly, had, been booked here and looking at the mug shot which has made the rounds just about everywhere, and been changed online as well, and changed into the all sorts

of images. samantha, is this going to be heightening his interest by the fans or lower it? >> i would have the say yes and no. i would say yes, it is going to affect his career as of now, because his recent criminal activity and the questionable behavior over the past year is only distracting from the music, and that is a shame, because justin bieber is talent and coming off as a joke, but i would say no, because the justin bieber fandom is a special breed of fan, because they are so loyal, and he can do no wrong in their eye, and we have seen it over the past 72 hours on social media, and them gathering outside of the courthouse as well as hi home or the mansion that he is renting in miami, and that is worrisome, because there is a fine line between supporting someone and enabling them. >> holly, i am struck, this is a canadian citizen, and these are

fairly serious charge, and they could get more serious for him, and could justin bieber be deported? >> well, i doubt it. what we are looking at here is going to be end up being a reckless driving, because of what you said earlier, miguel, he tested under the legal limit to be intoxicated for the state of florida. for anyone over 21 it is 0.8 and for under 21, it is 0.2, and justin bieber is. so it is going to be reduced to the reckless driving misdemeanor which means he is not eligible for deportation, because he has not been convicted of a felony crime or a crime of moral turpitude, but if you have a misdemeanor and it is theft or deception or lying, that is grounds to be tossed out of the country, but i don't see it happen i happening here. >> and although, he said that he also smoked marijuana, and with ewill have to see what the police make of that. bieber told the cops that his o

mother gave him prescription drugs and that his father was present in miami when all of this went down, and what is going on there? >> well, more than anything else, he does need the support of family, but he needs the family that are not enabling him. we don't know exactly what they were doing. look, justin has done what all of the other superstars are doing, they surround themselves with yes, men, and weak family members, and he needs people around himself who are no-people. in other words, they say no. don't do this. don't drink. you are only 19. be careful of the reputation. and that is what he needs, and that is the way to make it through, and otherwise, it is going to be a train wreck that continues to develop. >> and samantha, the one thing about justin bieber, he is a talented musician at the end of the day. >> yes. >> and he has been at it for a long time and he has more money than just about anybody, and more power, certainly, and you have seen it happen before with others.

is this just a kid acting out do you think or somebody who's, who's, you know, the beginning of a very long and rocky road? >> ooh, i hope not. here is the thing with justin bieber is that when you look back at the past years, it is not just this one incident that we are all talking about that is now breaking news. we have seen this pattern of questionable behavior for well over a year now, and i don't think that it is normal behavior, but on the flip of it, what is normal behavior for somebody who is under the media scrutiny who has more money than most of us can ever imagine and is super famous? so what i will say is that people are infuriated with jus t justin bieber and outraged with how he handles himself after he's engaging in this questionable behavior, and with we have all made mistakes and we have all been teenagers and had regrets, but the thing is that our character is determined by in adversity how we handle

ourselves after the fact, and justin bieber in my opinion has failed in that department. >> and he seems to be enjoying it as it is happening, because of all of the positive rephonersment. >> -- reinforcement. >> exactly. and holly, if you were the lawyer, what would you tell him to do? shut up and go away. >> yes, and stop hanging around in public places with beer all over the table the. you want to tell the judge, i learned my lesson and i am a punk and i mouthed off and i was stew wid the cop, but aim changing. >> and maybe it is light beer, migu miguel. who knows. >> and thank you all very, very much. we will continue with the saga. update now on the still develop i developing story we are following for today, the deadly shooting at a crowded shopping mall in maryland. police in columbia, maryland, they are still not sure why the man with the shotgun opened fire inside of the mall at 11:15 local time today and he killed two people that worked at the mall store, and 21-year-old

woman and 25-year-old man and then the shooter apparently killed himself. we will have updates on the mall shooting investigation throughout the night here on cnn. i'm miguel marquez in new york, and backstage express with robin meade starts now. >> how many times did you walk over? >> this is backstage express. your all access pass inside of music's biggest night. >> and it is like being at the super bowl. >> the grammys, featuring surprising album of the year nominee sarah bor rallies. >> and fan ttasia. and robin is backstage with darous rucker. >> mama, rock me. >> crazy kids. this is "backstage