tv Fareed Zakaria GPS CNN January 26, 2014 10:00am-11:01am PST
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colleague jill doherty shown here being honored at the state department, is leaving cnn after 30 years to, in her words, plunge full-time into russian affairs, writing, speaking, blogging, speaking and traveling to russia. jill, we'll miss you. join us back here on tuesday at 7:00 p.m. eastern for coverage of the president's state of the union address. "fareed zakaria: gps" is next for our viewers here in the united states. this is "gps," the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria coming to you from dabo, switzerland, the site of the annual meeting of the world economic forum. we have an extraordinary show for you today. three world leaders at the center of the news. first up, president hasan rouhani of iran tells me despite all the progress there might be a fundamental disagreement with the west on the way forward in
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the nuclear negotiations. so there will be no disruption of the centrifuges. >> no, no, not at all. >> and what would the iranians do if israel bombed them? you will want to hear his response. then prime minister abe of japan on his plan to turn and the world's third biggest economy, on the conflicts and on the japanese dolphin hunts that have been shocking the world. >> we are looking for peace. >> next, the prime minister of egypt on the third anniversary of the egyptian revolution. has that revolution gone badly awry? i ask him just that. all that, and we'll show you one more head of government doing something odd with another one. don't worry. it's kosher.
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first here's my take. much of the talk about dabos has been about inequality. president obama will focus on inequality in his state of the union. the pope is holding a meeting on it, which obama will attend. "usa today" has a new poll out that shows that the american public is increasingly concerned about inequality and wants the government to do something about it. people are bandying about new statistics such as this one released by oxfam this week. the world's 85 richest people own as much as do the poorest 3.5 billion put together. if you put this in american terms alone, the six heirs to the walmart fortune have a net worth that is larger than the poorest 48.8 million american families put together. these are staggering numbers, and it does make for some envy and resentment. but as i've argued before, inequality is made of three
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different factors -- the rise of the super rich, the rise of a larger group of poor people, and the stagnation of the great middle class. we're actually beginning to see a healthy discussion about the first two, especially about the poor. smart government policies could easily and effectively reduce poverty in most countries. it's less clear what to do about the super rich. but frankly, if we can help the poor move up, it matters less to me at least that the rich move up even faster. but the great problem, the largest one involving the most people, is the great stagnation. middle-class people have seen their incomes stagnate for decades now. and with technology taking away work and globalization outsourcing jobs, these trends have actually intensified in recent years. a new book, "the second machine age," argues that in the first machine age around the
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industrial revolution and all through the information revolution, technology was used to create power systems to work with and enhance human muscle power and human control. human control was a crucial part of the process every step of the way. think of a factory where thousands of workers, foremen, managers, all played a large role in manufacturing a product. in the second machine age, the authors argue, we are starting to automate cognitive tasks. control, judgment, calibration. the machines are replacing human control and cognition. they can make more consistent decisions than can humans. and the effect is massively compounded because of new information technologies like big data. the result -- you don't need many people. you can see it in the numbers. general motors, when it was one of the world's biggest companies, employed around
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600,000 americans. apple today, one of the world's very largest companies, employed around 50,000 americans. there's lots of technological progress and economic dynamism in the world today. there's lots of good news about poverty alleviation and better health care. there just aren't a lot of jobs for the great american or even western middle class. and i haven't heard any new ideas here about that central issue. let's get started. the most watched man at davos this year was the president of iran. hassan rouhani. it was the first time an iranian president had been to the meeting in a decade. and right now iran holds many cards in arguably the two biggest crises in world affairs. first off, its own nuclear program. on monday the west rolled back a series of sanctions against iran after the persian nation was
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found to be in compliance of its side of the nuclear agreement. steps that essentially slow the country's nuclear development program. iran is also a crucial player in the vexing problem of the syrian civil war. tehran is one of the biggest supporters of president assad, moscow being the other. iran was first invited and then disinvited to this week's geneva 2 conference, which sought a political solution to the crisis. i asked president rouhani about both, and more. listen in. >> president rouhani, it is a great honor to have you. >> translator: i am also happy to be here. >> in an interview last week with the "new yorker" magazine president obama said that he thought there was a 50-50 chance of completing a comprehensive agreement with iran, not the interim one that's just been signed, but there are a few
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crucial issues which seem to me make it quite difficult. there is a widespread feeling in the united states, in france, in many western countries that iran should have almost no enrichment capability, that it should instead get its enriched uranium from outside. you said in an interview with the "financial times" iran will absolutely remain its enrichment. do you believe it will be possible to bridge this gap by allowing iran to have a small enrichment capacity but for the most part to forgo enrichment? >> translator: iran will not accept this. and the peaceful nuclear technology including enrichment is part and parcel of the inalienable rights of states. we are only willing to move forward within legal context.
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if somebody wants to talk with us outside these legal contexts, that tells us that they don't want to have an agreement. when in comes to nuclear technology, the iranian people are very sensitive. it is a part of our national pride. and nuclear technology has become indigenous. and recently we have managed to secure very considerable prowess with regards to the fabrication of centrifuges. so in the context of r&d and peaceful nuclear technology, we will not accept any limitations. and in accordance with much less or parliament law in the future, we are going to need 20,000 megawatts of nuclear power.
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we are determined to provide for the nuclear fuel of such plants inside the country at the hands of local iranian scientists. we're going to follow on this path. >> so there will be no destruction of centrifuges, of existing centrifuges? >> translator: no. no. not at all. >> this feels as if there is a big divide here. do you think in your understanding of the negotiations that the two sides are -- that there is enough goodwill, that there is enough trust that there can be a bridge between what seem to be very different positions? >> translator: of course. one cannot say there is full confidence and trust. these negotiations, one of the goals of negotiations is to create trust.
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the six-month implementation of the initial agreement has been devised to provide more confidence. there are certain conditions when it comes to certain countries, and confidence cannot come about easily. the iranian people, with regards to the policies of various american administrations in the past 30 years, are very worried. they don't trust them. so this trust needs to be built. this is a newly founded structure. we only have the foundations in place. we need to bolster the foundations, to be very -- to be very precise, to have a beautiful building we need time. >> you know, i'm sure, that in the united states congress there is a debate about a bill which would impose further sanctions on iran if after the six-month
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period the negotiations -- the permanent negotiations were unsuccessful. what is your reaction to that potential legislation from the u.s. congress? >> translator: at face value the u.s. congress, there is -- they have a long way to go before they fully appreciate and understand iranian people. and to know that when, from a religious point of view, religious leaders, to be more specific, the great and eminent leader of the revolution announces and states that the fabrication and stockpiling of nuclear weapons is haram, religiously forbidden, this should tell you that we don't want to build a bomb. so when it comes to sanctions, have they been successful so far? sanctions, first and foremost, are illegal.
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and a congress which claims to be making laws should not contravene international laws. so these sanctions translate into the weakening of the mpt, the weakening of international laws and regulations. no other country can decide for another country. >> when we come back, lots more important stuff from president rouhani. what would happen if israel were to launch a military strike on iran's nuclear facilities? >> all that, plus my conversations with two prime ministers. from egypt and japan. stay with us.
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liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? more of my interview now with hassan rouhani, the president of iran. >> looking at regional issues, when iran has presented itself, it has often seen itself as a more open government than perhaps some in the middle east and a more moral government. and yet you support the
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government of hafez al assad -- i mean of bashar al assad that has by some accounts killed 200,000 or 300,000 people, caused millions of people to flee. there is widespread killing, suffering in syria. how can the government of iran support the regime of bashar al assad? >> translator: well, in a civil war you cannot just consider one party's position. what has created a huge problem for the region today is terrorism. you know well, governments know well, even western governments know well that all terrorist groups, the most dangerous terrorists have converged inside syria, and unfortunately, some countries are providing means and money to these terrorists.
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the bashar al assad government has been there for some years now. it has been running the country for some years now. and if the people have some grievances they need to go through legal channels, engage in a free elections for everyone to find out what the people need. today a civil war rages inside syria. we should come together to stop that. >> if you had been at the syrian talks, would iran support a process which would lead to genuinely free and fair elections, even if that meant the removal of the assad regime? >> translator: well, the issue of bashar al assad is not the main issue here. first we need to push the terrorists out. we should all work together to prevent access to terrorists.
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i'm seeing -- i'm sure you have seen these videos, what the terrorists are doing, how brutal they are. and first, so terrorists need to leave the country. so all countries need to come together, work hand in hand. later, conditions should be helped to come about. those who oppose the syrian government should sit at a table with the syrian government. a conducive atmosphere should be helped to come about. then whatever the syrians decide, that is fine. of course, the syrian people have the right and every right. in this road, whatever help we can provide, we will not fail to do so. >> mr. president, during the campaign you were quoted once as saying "it is not enough to say death to america with words. we must show what we mean by
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death to america in action." what do you mean by putting the phrase "death to america" in action? >> translator: well, the people, when they say "death to america," do you know what they are really saying? what they mean to say relates to the aggressive policies of the u.s. and intervention and meddling by the u.s. we don't want those to continue. we want people to decide for themselves. all countries in my part of the world or the other, i want democracy -- or rather we want democracy to prevail. i told the people if you want american policies to stop, we need to take action. we need to make the u.s.
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understand that its meddling is inappropriate. >> would you like to see iran have normal relations with america? >> translator: this is totally dependent on the u.s. the iranian and american people for many years used to enjoy a relationship despite the differences and difficulties we had with the u.s. administrations. so they need to change their behavior. they need to change their policies. and they will undoubtedly receive a positive response by the iranian people. >> what would happen if israel were to launch a military strike on iran's nuclear facilities? >> translator: israel will not do that. israel knows very well what the response would be. israel knows well our regional
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capability, iran's capability, and we know what capabilities the israelis have for that matter. so with all of these in mind, these are empty slogans. when it comes to practice, the israelis cannot do that. if they do such a crazy thing, our response will make them rue the day. >> mr. president, you are now at the center of the world, and i think it's fair for people to wonder who are you? and so there are some people who say that you are a real liberal in the iranian system. there are others who say that you are a wolf in sheep's clothing. how would you describe yourself? >> translator: i am an open book.
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i have been chosen by the people in a free and fair and competitive elections the people participated and voted for a president who was uttering the slogan of moderation and wisdom. he says that he wants to have constructive interaction with the rest of the world. so the administration or the president for that matter is not important. what is important is the iranian people. the administration represents the people. in the most recent elections the iranian people spoke very clearly with the rest of the world. windows have been opened. i very much hope the rest of the world and others will use this opportunity optimally. >> mr. president, it is a great honor. >> translator: thank you.
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welcome back to "gps." i'm coming to you from davos, switzerland today, the site of the world economic forum's annual meeting. it's time for our "what in the world" segment. i usually give you my thoughts about something that struck me. but i'm going to cede this space to someone else today. to bill gates. his annual letter is out. it debunks three myths about fighting poverty, and it's gotten a lot of attention for its claim that by 2035 there will be no more poor countries in the world, using today's definition of poor, of course. but what caught my eye was myth number two -- "foreign aid is a big waste." now, this might not strike you as a myth. lots of people believe that what we send abroad doesn't really help countries alleviate poverty and develop. well, gates does a very nice job of carefully explaining why foreign aid has in fact been a pretty spectacular success. the largest piece of evidence for this is literally the life-saving effect of aid. gates gives us the numbers. since 2000, 440 million children have been immunized against
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vaccine-preventable diseases. since 1988, 2.5 billion children have been immunized against polio. the results are stunning. 25 years ago the number of polio cases each year was 350,000. in 2013 it was 400. it's not just health either. the percentage of children in school in africa, for example, has gone from the low 40 percents to 75% over the last 40 years. saving people's lives and making them healthy and giving them education is not simply and deeply moral. it has practical benefits. these people now work, earn a living, and help make their countries less reliant on aid. many countries that received large amounts of foreign assistance from the west are now developed enough that they don't need it anymore.
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among them china, mexico, brazil, malaysia, singapore, south korea, morocco, peru. china is in fact now a big donor of foreign aid. part of the problem here is that we lump together all kinds of aid. there's assistance that was given during the cold war, say to mobutu of zaire for purely strategic reasons with no attempt to aid the country. there's aid for science, general public health and economic development. the reality is foreign aid programs have to be well designed, properly targeted, and well implemented, like any other effort in the real world, public or private. they must be monitored for corruption and unintended effects. but when these conditions apply, and they do in many, many cases, foreign aid has a big positive effect. and how much are we spending to get these benefits? americans guess that their
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government spends 25% of its annual budget on aid. how much should it be spending, they are asked. 10% is the answer. well, the reality is that the united states spends less than 1% of its budget on aid. that's $30 for every american. is this money a waste? if you add up all the money spent on health-related aid since 1980 and divide that by the number of children's deaths that have been prevented, you get a figure of just $5,000 to save a child's life. go to cnn.com/fareed for a link to the complete letter. up next, the country that used to be the world's second biggest economy after the united states but now has slipped behind its great rival china. my interview with the prime minister of japan, shinzo abe, on how he's going to revitalize his country. ♪
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criticized japanese employment rules, including employee terminations for being unclear. i will make sure that they are clarified. it's not a matter of whether we do this or not. i believe we have no alternative. >> prime minister, let me ask you about another subject since we don't have a lot of time. do you believe that china wants to be the hegemon of asia? do you believe china wants to dominate asia?
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>> translator: regarding the growth of the chinese economy, japan along with the united states and the rest of asia welcomes the economic rise of china. but year after year they have been increasing their defense spending by 10%. they have done this for the past 20 years. and this is a source of concern for the countries in asia as well as for japan. for china to continue enjoying economic prosperity it needs to foster international relationships, not tension. and it is important for china to understand this. it is also important for china to recognize that any attempts to change the status quo by force or coercion cannot be accepted. the rule of law must be accepted. we must share this common basic understanding. >> many people believe that president xi jinping and his new administration have tried to be more aggressive in certain areas around the east china seas, the south china seas, drawing
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certain lines relating to issues of territorial possession such as what the japanese call the senkaku islands. do you believe that the new leadership in china is more expansionist than perhaps over the last 20 or 30 years? >> translator: china has been expanding for the past 20 years. this is not something that the current president, xi jinping, suddenly started. i hope that the current president will change their current direction. military expansion will contribute nothing to china's future, its economic growth or prosperity. i will work to ensure that he understands that. >> do you believe that japan
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could be a counter, counterweight to china? a rising japan under your leadership? >> translator: i have no intentions of countering china militarily. but i am responsible for protecting japanese waters, territory, and japanese lives and property, and i intend to execute those responsibilities. when it comes to military expansion, and this applies not only to china but japan, asean in east asia, and the asian region as a whole, it's important to enhance transparency of military capabilities. on the question of military power it's important to be managed properly while ensuring transparency. >> mr. prime minister, you know that there is around the world now a controversy. i was wondering what your reaction was to the idea suggested by the u.s. ambassador that it is inhumane.
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>> translator: the dolphin fishing that takes place in taiji town is an ancient fishing practice deeply rooted in their culture and their practices and supports their livelihoods. we hope you will understand this. in every country and region there are practices and ways of living and culture that have been handed down from ancestors. naturally, i feel that these should be respected. at the same time, i am aware that there are various criticisms. i have also heard that they are making major improvements in their fishing methods. both the fishing and fishing methods are strictly regulated. >> mr. prime minister, thank you
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very much. up next -- has egypt given up on real democracy? my next guest is the interim prime minister of that country. like i do, getting the right nutrition isn't always easy. first, i want a way to help minimize my blood sugar spikes. then, a way to support heart health. ♪ and let's not forget immune support. ♪ but now i have new glucerna advance with three benefits in one. including carbsteady ultra to help minimize blood sugar spikes. it's the best from glucerna. [ male announcer ] new glucerna advance. from the brand doctors recommend most. advancing nutrition for diabetes.
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violence marred the third anniversary of the egyptian revolution this weekend, starting with a series of bombings on friday against the nation's police force. the arab spring has brought cairo mixed results at best. the military was overthrown. the people are now rallying for the current army chief to run for president. egypt had a brief experiment with democracy, but it didn't
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work out so well. and violence and bloodshed seem to be endemic in the nation now. was it all for nothing? where is egypt headed? i sat down for a discussion this week with hazem el beblawi, the interim prime minister in egypt. beblawi holds a ph.d. in economics and is a former finance minister. listen to our chat at the world economic forum. >> prime minister, thank you so much for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> so looking at it three years out from the revolution, what i'm wondering, and i think what a lot of people are wondering about, is have things gone in a direction which looks very dangerous in this sense? the muslim brotherhood, which came to power, which won in a sense three elections in one year -- the constitutional referendum, the parliamentary elections, and the presidential elections.
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that party now has been banned. its members are being oppressed in various ways. and a party that had maintained non-violence for decades now appears to be turning violent. just a few days ago policemen were shot. so haven't you now created a situation where the worst scenario is unfolding, which is that political islam has no democratic voice, it is itself turning more extreme and violent and the people who benefit are of course the jihadis, who say we always told you democracy was a bad idea, don't go to the ballot box, use violence instead? >> i am one of those who believe that the only way to progress is to commit mistakes. without trial and errors humanity would have been left. so we all regret, and we are
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unhappy to see many mistakes taking place. this is the first part of it. m taking place. this is the first part of it. as i told you without making mistakes, we would never learn. i think we are learning. we're learning the hard way. we have to pay a price and we are paying the price. the end result i believe will be beneficial to ourselves, to the coming generation. >> what are those mistakes? was there too much repression? >> first of all, as i told you, the repression which we inherited from the previous region, the people must take things in their hand. this is why january 25th, 2011,
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erupted. also there was another experience. people had dreams about the project of political islam. they went through a difficult time in management. we have to admit the muslim brothers have a long experience. they survived. all the regions starting with the british kingdom and so on, plus management. when it came to take hour they failed miserably. i think this is a major question for them and us. >> u.s. international has put out a scathing report on egypt arguing there is absolutely massive abuse of human rights, essentially no freedom of assembly, essentially no freedom
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of speech left in the country. >> i must say what i have seen is there is a little bit of a distorted picture that we see. i haven't seen much blame on the number of explosion that are taking place on the pipelines, on the government building, on the schools, on these metro stations. there's only one fixation that there are some activist toss take into prison. it might be some of them are innocent. i feel it's a bit unfair that of all what we see in egypt explosions in mansura, demolishing of police office, explosions, 20 times, killing of
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four or five policeman. of course when they were killed, they were receiving bumtllets, sending bullets. >> you said egypt said kbb to military dictatorship. yes it appears general assisi may run for presidency. if he runs for presidency, how is this different from mubarak taking off his uniform and becoming president? >> the difference is great. before mubarak decided to run for presidency, almost all in the country knew him and definitely no one asked him to come. the problem is that assisi, as far as i know, he's under pressure asking him to come. this has happened to some extent with the general. don't tell me he was looked at as a general.
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these are national symbols in a very crucial moment where they move the popular feeling. i might agree this is effect, those pushing general assisi pushing him to run, not in the camps, in the sees, women in first place. you said don't forget his answer, man. >> prime minister, thank you very much. >> thank you very much. up next, what happens when world leaders find their true voice.
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this week marked 95 years sense the official proposal to create the league of nations which will eventually be housed in geneva, switzerland. it brings me to my question of the week. which country was one of the founding members of the league of nations, a, the united states. b, russia. c, germany, d, japan. stay tuned and we'll tell you the correct answer. this week's book of the week is amsterdam but russell shorto. if you want to find it, this city, battered by war and revolution, through all these struggles, amsterdam became the home of individual rights in the west. it's true in 1600, and true
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today. amsterdam was the place where gay marriage was first legalized and celebrated. now for the last look. take a listen to this rendition of the beatles classic "hey jude." ♪ ♪ >> not the best you've ever heard but perhaps the best by a world leader. that is steven harper, prime minister of canada rocking out on the keyboard. harper was serenading israeli prime minister netanyahu during his trip to israel this week. yes, that's him singing along. any doubt about the friendship, that is harper singing "with a little help from my friends." ♪ ♪ get by with a little help from my friends ♪ >> the correct answer to gps challenge question was, d,
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japan. even though the league was first proposed by woodrow wilson, the united states was never a member. the united nations replaced the league of nations after the second world war. thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week, i will see you next week. hello, everyone. i'm fredricka whitfield. these are the stories topping the news at this hour. the man who opened fire inside a maryland mall has been identified. will it get police any closer to learning why he did it? what investigators are learning today. staying warm with temperatures below zero. it doesn't help if your propane bill doubles of some families bills are higher than their mortgage payments. and it's going to be a special night at the grammys for the beatles. coming up, what paul mccartney and ringo starr remember about the first time they came to america. we begin with this breaking story, a brain dead
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