that's all for us tonight. "ac 360 later" starts right now. ♪ good evening, everyone. welcome to "ac 360 later." thanks for joining us. on the table tonight, her charges that woody allen abused her as a child. as the new head of gm is getting paid less than the company's last ceo. is it because she's a women?

we'll show your comments at the bottom of the scream. we deagain on the latest with the death of phillip seymour hoffman. his family is planning for a memorial service later this month. his legacy will be the work he did and the lives he touched. there's a lot to learn how anyone can spiral out of control after decades of being sober. joining me tonight is andrew sullivan, charles blow, margaret hoover, dr. drew penske will be here shortly. and rick curtis, who studied addiction for decades, particularly here in new york city. you're not surprised. you studied this for decades here in new york. you're not surprised when you

see someone like phillip seymour hoffman dying from overdose. >> not at all. new york city has about 900 overdose deaths per year, three times as many homicides practically. >> in the city of new york alone? >> yes. >> and the kind of heroin people are using now, what should we know about it? >> it varies in its poe te s po is cut with very many different thinks. >> when somebody overdoses, is it because they misjudge the caliber of the potency or they got out of control when they were cooking and misjudged what they were taking? >> they misjudge the potency usually. >> it was the same kind of heroin -- he had all the same kind of bags in his apartment it's reported. >> dealers will very frequently

vary the potency. >> you have with you hundreds of bags of heroin. >> i'm a stamp collector. >> what a lot of people don't realize is dealers stamp a brand name. >> dealers will usually have -- >> there's no heroin obviously inside this. >> we used it all before we started here today. >> but talk about the branding of it. the idea is to what, develop loyalty? >> well, to have customers understand that this belongs to you without putting your name on it, so to speak. so frequently dealers will have two or three or four different stamps that belong to them, their organization, if they have an organization, and they'll vary the potency of them. so the users have to guess which one is the potent one today. they used to -- the organizations used to hire people that would stand on the corner, and like a carnival barker, bark out the name of the one that they got paid to bark.

and the users would come to them and tip them to tell them -- i know you're barking this one, but which thun is the good one today? some organizations made -- >> that's a brand called no joke? >> it says ask for it by name here at the bottom. and this was a corporate style organization, it had many employees. they had their employees wearing leisure suits with the logo emblazoned on the back. >> now there's messenger services. >> now there are messenger services that you can call the dispatcher and tell you where you're at and they'll come and deliver for you. >> and there's a report about two people who had messenger bags. whether or not it was messengers for that we don't know. >> some are messenger services. it's like a taxi service type thing. some are, you know, private

individuals that run a service to a specific client. some are a big organization. some it's just one person on some can be a small group. >> explain, dr. drew, you deal with people that face addiction. i can't get over somebody that sought treatment at age 22, had this extraordinary career. and now at 46, dies from -- >> you try to get your head around this. i love the drug culture, where you talk about drug culture, this is what we're talking about. but phillip seymour hoffman had terrible addiction at a young age. we used everything and anything. opiates usually take over. he got so where he was sober for a long, long period of time and was a source of inspiration for other people. he was someone of great wisdom and great resource for others. when those guys relapse, they are deeply ashamed.

and often in my world, the relapse usually gets going because of prescription meds. they are given a psycho stimulant and no one alerts them your disease is going to reawaken. and they find their way back to their drug of choice, they're deeply ashamed and off they go. >> you and i went out in, i can't remember, i think it was '97, out to brooklyn. you brought me to a heroin shooting gallery. are those shooting galleries still where people go, or have those been closed down? >> those have been closed down, not so much by police, but housing developers who have snapped up all the vacant properties. of course, the police have been very efficient at what they do, as well. >> where do people now go? >> the bathroom at mcdonald's. public bathrooms, alleyways, roof tops. it's a very, very unsafe environment for them.

you know, it was reported that i think he was in a room with double locked doors or something, right? so people are looking for places where they can hide and do it, but they tend to be very unsan sar. >> that's where a lot of the medical problems happen, it's the administration of what goes in with the iv that causes -- >> what do you mean? >> opiates, we could finally relieve pain without hurting the patient. >> long-term, it doesn't really have -- >> the administration does, which is using, how you're using it. >> the other thing is, of course in new york, and pretty much everywhere, you're not just injecting heroin. in new york, you get other things in the bag. the heroin is usually the minority ingredient.

they're cutting it with sugars and things like that, and other ingredients. for example, xanax, even tylenols or things like that. they put quinine in it to cause an itchy, scratchy feeling, which there is a mythology is if you have an itchy, scratchy feeling from the haeroiheroin, good heroin. you know, the dealers were adding quinine to the heroin back then. >> in terms of treatment, what kind of treatment is it, is it effective? >> the treatment is controversial. you're a harm avoidance advocate. i would say if you or i or an airline pilot were addicted, you

would have to go to abstinence. sit an effective treatment, it does save lives. >> before we go. i want to introduce you to a woman, a former heroin user named tracy. here's how she described the continued craving for heroin, even though she's been clean for 15 years. >> i think the cravings set in, something happens. there's a stimulus in your life and cravings set in and you feel like you're trapped and there's no other way, there's no other solution. when i think about heroin, it's that instant sense of relief. you may not think about the consequences in that moment, you think about having relief, and you know in those instances that that drug provides instantaneous relief. >> you're an advocate for people to use safety, is that zplekt

>> i would like them to be abstinent, but it's a difficult journey for some people. and it's expensive, as well. but eventually, given time, people will become abstinent. you just have to be patient with them. the first, second, third, 14th, 15th, 16th time going to treatment may not work, but the 17th time may. >> that's common. >> it's just repeated. what i think is that i need to help them stay alive long enough to reach the 17th time, so to speak. >> you do that by trying to educate them about how to use safely? >> to educate them to, yes, use safely, to not spread disease to others, to keep themselves healthy and to encourage them to think about their own health and well-being and the well-being of others around them. we want them to be conscious of what they're doing and engage

them with people that want to help them so they'll think about it. they feel tremendous guilt about it, but we need to bring them out of the closets and the locked rooms that they're in, and help them. >> socioeconomicicly, is it a white problem or is it relegated to -- >> oh, no, it's everywhere. >> so white collar heroin use is -- >> what i see is a lot of youth white collar, like young people in upper middle class. >> how about high functioning adults in academia? >> i've seen it. they hide all over the place. >> you were saying you've been seeing body builders. >> there were reports in long island a few years ago when i visited a methadone clinic with

body builders that started on steroids. >> there's a lot of cross addiction with steroids and stimulants. >> so the guy at the program explained that these guys used steroids to pump up and they got roid rage. to control it, they started using opiates and went over to methadone. you go to the methadone programs and it's usually filled with vietnam era people, and then there were these guys with these bulging muscles. it was like a really odd sight. so there are some unusual demographics getting into it. >> the pill is the big problem. so people that are interphasing with the medical system, people that have insurance, their kids and young adults end up on the hero heroin. >> in new york city, it's somewhat the opposite still, because there are existing markets to introduce some young

people. outside the city -- >> let me be clear, it used to be marijuana, cocaine, alcohol, hero heroin. now it's pills, heroin. >> the pharmaceutical companies and many of the programs which mon nor problematic populations are complicit in this, because they are overprescribing, in my opinion, some of these drugs. not just the opiates, but many other things, and creating a system whereby people are encouraged to take pharmaceuticals. >> there was a time in the standard endorsed practice of pain medicine, people were encouraged to come in and tell what they wanted. they would be given exactly what they asked for. and that's what they would get. >> we've got to leave the discussion here. thank you very much. coming up, let us know what you

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welcome back. today, woody allen's attorney was on television speaking strongly and publicly defenneling his client against accusations by dylan farrow that she was molested by woody allen as a child more than 20 years ago. dylan farrow is now 28 years old. allen's attorney says he thinks she truly believe she was assaulted because her mother,

actress mia farrow, implanted the story in her mind when dylan was only 7 years old. he joins us tonight. also with us is sunny hostin. good to have you both. so your contention is that mia farrow, angry over the situation between woody allen and her adopted daughter implanted this idea? >> it's not my contention as much as it was the finding of the sex abuse clinic. >> this was a six-month investigation? >> six-month investigation that was referred by the connecticut state authorities. >> once the initial allegations -- >> once the initial allegations were made by mia farrow. the connecticut authorities did the right thing. they referred it to the new haven sex abuse clinic, which is the leading agency of its kind. they conducted a six-month investigation. they concluded that the molestation did not occur,

period. so it's not my contention, it's what they found. they found after woody allen took a lie detector test, they interviewed everybody, including woody allen, and they determined it didn't happen. they also determined that the story was coached by mia farrow, and that's one of the reasons they found the story to be incredible. >> the judge, however, in the custody hearing did not -- basically kind of negated some of that report saying he found it inconclusive. >> the judge had different issues in front of him. i'm here to tell you that the criminal charges that are being renewed by dylan today, 20 years later, were found to not have occurred, whether the custody decision was a different one, whether any other decision was

different, the case was handled totally appropriately when we're talking about a nonsympathetic, obviously to any child abuse situation. they got their process, mia farrow and dylan went to the authorities. they were treated seriously, respectfully. >> there was a connecticut prosecutor, though, who said that he believed there was credible evidence. >> there is -- when a claimant comes to you and gives the story that dylan gives, although a 7-year-old version of it rather than a 28-year-old version, that's credible evidence. that must be investigated, and that's exactly what happened. they did the right thing. they good heard, they were sent to experts who were in the business of determining whether there were false accusations, and you know that there have been historically false allegations. often statistically in cases of custody battles and divorces. but they determined after six

months where everybody was interviewed that it didn't happen. >> so you're not saying you believe dylan farrow is lying now at the age of 28. you believe she believes it because -- >> i believe that. i don't know is the short answer. i believe that people can be implanted with memories as a child, and that stays with use. especially if it's reinforced. >> how many claims of child abuse do you think that applies to? for example, all the children abused by catholic priests? >> like jerry sandusky. >> do you think those were implanted in them, what proportion of them just imagined this? >> i don't have the statistics, but i was told by linda fairstein, who headed the sex abuse clinic the manhattan d.a.'s office, that there are many false accusations of child abuse. she said it comes up more often

than not in matrimonial situations. >> i take issue with that. there have been studies done there, there are stats that do not support the contention that children alleging sex abuse have either these memories implanted or making it up in the context of custody. something like less than 2%. i know linda and linda is wrong on that. but the other -- >> but new haven decided that. >> i think the investigation of sex abuse claims, especially with children, has come a long way. and so my understanding is that her attorney, mia farrow's attorney said that report was incomplete, inaccurate and there was a sloppy assessment made. and that is what happened with these sex abuse cases 20 something years ago. >> you don't do something for six months, with the best known clinic in the country for that, the investigation was totally

complete. and you have to give the fact that sometimes there are false allegations made. >> it is rare, though. it is rare. >> do you believe that those assessments are infallible? >> nothing is infallible. do you think that dylan is infallible? >> i'm not saying that her story is true or not. i'm just trying to get a sense of your opinion how credible you can take anything that -- i have twines, three kids, and when they were 7, i can't get a straight answer. i'm trying to figure out how credible, what is the fallibility of any -- >> it was very fallible, at least 20 years ago. [ all talking at once ] >> this is not just -- there was an initial doctor visit, mia farrow taking dylan farrow, dylan farrow didn't repeat the accusation. but that was not the six-month

investigation. the investigation was subsequent to all of that. >> subsequent to all of that, when the connecticut authorities referred it to the clinic. >> and a videotape was made by mia farrow, but there were numerous edits and a nanny reported that it was a video made over the course of several days. >> right. and the credibility of what she said was on that videotape was relevant to their investigation. nothing is infallible. we have a process, and i agree with everybody that this is a crime that is not treated seriously. it was treated extremely seriously. >> can you agree that no prosecution does not mean no guilt? >> the difference here is they found as a fact it did not occur. that's not saying -- >> here's my question, because i read about dylan farrow's life, and she's had an awful life,

ptsd, she's had extraordinary difficulties at the time, whenever allen would show up at the house, she would feel sick. you think all of that is implanted in her mind by her mother at the age of 7? is mia farrow -- >> is she a brainwasher? >> she was angry at woody allen and let's assume justifiably angry with woody allen. when you're angry and your kids see you angry and you say the things she said about sooni, you pick that up. >> in such detail? dylan's account with such detail is all a false memory, that mia farrow implanted in her brain? >> the bottom line is -- >> you're accusing mia farrow of child abuse. >> i really believe that. that's why woody allen sued for custody. >> that's incredible. >> it's a brilliant way to avoid

credible charges of child abuse. >> everybody is talking about dylan and mia farrow. this stain hurts him, too. if it's always, it's a disaster for a person like that, to have a false accusation 20 years later, and everybody wants to believe it. >> i don't want to believe it. i hope it didn't happen. >> it didn't happen according to the believe -- >> but she says she did. she has maintained the same account since she was 7 years old. >> the immediate accounts did differ. >> but that's not abnormal, when you're talking about interviewing a child victim. >> where did authorities go wrong? you've done this before, where did authorities the go wrong? >> several there's a saying around here,

you stand behind what you say. around here you don't make excuses. you make commitments. and when you can't live up to them, you own up, and make it right. some people think the kind of accountability that thrives on so many streets in this country has gone missing in the places where it's needed most.

but i know you'll still find it when you know where to look. . ?bout 3-4 minutes missiout 33g

welcome back. the new ceo of gm is at the center of a controversy over her pay. she's the first woman leading any car maker. her base pay is $1.6 million. her predecessor's base pay last year was $1.7 million. she's getting $2.8 million in short term compensation, she got $3.5 million. she will get a bonus, the amount we don't know. he got zero long-term compensation. but the bottom line for her, $4.4 million for her, $9.1 million for ackerson.

is she yet another woman making less than a man for the same job? joining the conversation is patty sellers, senior editor at large. so we don't know her long-term pay package, and a lot of times salary -- the real money is the long-term pay package. but is this fair? >> in this case, long-term compensation will be higher, we're almost sure of it. the more this chatter goes on, the more pressure gm is going to be under to deliver a package that is at least as big as dan ackerson's. >> i read something today that they were trying to fire back saying he was the ceo and the chairman and she's just the ceo, so she's not the chairman. so there would be some differences in pay. does that hold water?

>> that's true. when they brought him in to basically take care of bring gm out of bankruptcy, the government was basically in charge of gm. they hired him from cargile group. cargile is a private equity. >> he said he left over $100 million on the table. >> over $100 million on the table. and he had been a ceo previously. this is the price of loyalty. when you're in a company that long -- >> you don't get paid as much -- >> and by the way, he's getting paid as a consultant right now, which is more than her total package. >> his price, his pay as a senior adviser to gm now is higher, but he is an interim

adviser, he's being paid on a pro rated basis. we really don't know -- >> there's no -- basis -- >> there are two stories here. the first is just an issue aside from this particular case, which is that -- [ all talking at once ] >> give me one second. women do get paid less just in a general sense. >> that's a misleading statistic. >> there are some things involved in it -- i'm saying in general, that's not even in cases or some cases where women and men do the same work, that's where it becomes a moral issue, it's a huge problem. on the other side, i must say -- on the other side i must say there's a part of me that says

ceo pay, i look at numbers like this and i flinch because the average worker is still u struggling. their pay has not been increased. >> it's much more complicated. the actual number, 77 cents, was misleading, that's the median income income compared to the median male income. if you take into account different hours worked, there is a pay difference, but it's a lot less than that. it's between 87% to 91%. i've seen various studies on this. >> this number is surprisingly complicated to come up with a hard core number. yes, women are generally paid less than men, and one of the reasons is, women don't ask for raises, don't ask for promotions

enough. i talked to her a few weeks ago. i said to her, did you ever in your career ever ask for a promotion? she said no, i have no. >> in 34 years? >> never asked for a promotion. ever ask for a raise, i asked? no, i have not, and she said it proudly. >> and you said a man would be more likely to ask for a promotion or specifically for a raise? >> yeah, and that's what her predecessor did. >> there are characteristics that are consistent. if you feel like you should get more, ask. >> so you're viewed as more valuable if you leave that corporation and want to come back. and a loyal employee won't get as much as somebody who is threatening to leave. it's very interesting to me.

>> it just shows you the amoralism of capitalism. they won't promote any virtue except for cut throatism. you have to be a little rude and aggressive and nasty. [ all talking at once ] >> in some cases they are paid less for the same work, that is true. >> hold on. she is making less money than her predecessor. >> she had been a ceo before. >> you sawhat you say is not tr

charles. >> that is simply not the case. >> 70 cents for every dollar -- [ all talking at once ] >> thank you for being with us. up next, are children pulling the fun out of parenting? it's the focus of a new book. the author joins us ahead. capital to make it happen? without the thinking that makes it real? what's a vision without the expertise to execute it... and the financing to make it grow? whatever your goal, it can change more than your business. it can change the future. that's why, at barclays, our ambition is to always realize yours.

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welcome back. when it comes to parthood, is it all joy and no fun? the author suggests parents should ignore cries of "i'm bored." never heard that back in my day. it reminds me of a clip from this movie. take a look. >> play outside. >> yeah, you can build a fort outside. >> what? >> yeah, build a fort. play with your friends. >> make a fort, outside? do what in the fort? >> when i was a kid, we used to build tree houses and play with sticks. >> nobody plays with sticks. >> you and charlotte can have a lemonade stand. >> look for dead bodies.

>> it's fun. that's fun to do. >> get a tire and take a stick and run down the street with it. >> nobody does that crap. it's 2012! >> jennifer is the author of the book "the paradox of modern parenthood." great to have you here. what does it mean, all joy and no fun? >> i guess the disting shup is the no one is the drudgery part. parents don't seem to be happy moment to moment. the joy is something that scientists are often measuring for it. it's much more elusive. if you try to specifically find

it, you can't. but right now -- >> it's more of a longer term -- >> here's the thing. the way that this lovely psychiatrist put it to me, and i've never forgotten this, enterally focused, you eat a snickers bar, fun. joy, it's a connection with somebody else and it's the feeling that is very hard to tolerate. and even harder to tolerate in some ways than sadness. because you are so tied to something. you love that thing so much that it's hard to look at that person and not suddenly be afraid of losing it. >> you say in the book that mom should take a cue from fathers in terms of their attitudes for kids. how so? >> i think in the context, if you say it like that, there's quite a bit of ramp-up to that

moment, which seems clear -- this is a lovely couple i keep in touch with on facebook. angie is tyrannized about being a good mother. and mothers spend twice as much time with their kids and fathers. they do twice as much housework. they are alive to all the emotional undercurrents in the house. they feel deadlines acutely. they're on the clock the minute they come home. and fathers are more apt to be monotasking as opposed to multitasking. what's amazing is that watching clint, he was so forgiving of himself. he said, ah, i'm the standard when i came home. very up uncomplicated. angie felt like she was the

standard at work, not at home. >> what else is your advice for parents? >> it's not prescriptive. i'm trying to hold up a mirror here. i think if you squint, you'll see that. maybe emulate fathers. >> what you're getting at it seems to me is this concept of joy that the -- in maternity we have kind of lost. it was the title of pope francis' first apostolic exhortation. this is a commitment to something long-term and serious. >> thank you. >> at oxford, my alma mater, when you go back for a reunion, it's called a gaudy, which is latin for joy. it means you're committed to this place, this college, for life and you're bound to it and you're happy about it. i think we've lost that because we are so busy seeking fun and

entertainment that we don't understand the joy, which can be part of drudgery is the deeper human virtue. >> this connects so -- that's beautiful, and here is another way to think about it that plays right into this. having obligations and duties are a lovely thing. i don't think that we think enough about this, and the joys of service and just giving and things like that. kids are the last thing in a way that you can't abandon. you can abandon your spouse and your job, you can pick uproots and change cities, but you can't abandon your commitment to your kids, and ideally you couldn't abandon commitments to many things. but you really can't abandon your kids. >> unless you're woody allen. >> that was so one segment ago. i'm not going to weigh in on that.

so i think that there's -- and you'll appreciate this, i invoke c.s. lewis who talks about the joy of loving ones self. >> surprise by joy. >> this is like a running undercurrent. >> margaret, you're a new parent. >> you comment, you talk about parents being in the center of the family versus children being in the center of the family and building a family around either children, and one creates more or less joy. what is your critique there? >> well, what happened was, somewhere around the 1950s, everything kind of restructured itself and kids started becoming the center of the family. they used to work, you know, literally they worked on our farms -- >> they still work. >> that's kind of a problem. we're not pining for the days when -- >> in the book, you were

pointing out how people used to call themselves homemakers, because their job was to care for the house. >> now what are they? they're stay at home moms. >> there's a shift in that? >> yes, because we're professional parents, not professional homemakers. but either way, we're responsible for making our kids happy and that's hard. >> fascinating discussion. we'll be right back. they don't know it yet, but they're gonna fall in love, get married, have a couple of kids, [ children laughing ] move to the country, and live a long, happy life together where they almost never fight about money. [ dog barks ] because right after they get married, they'll find some financial folks who will talk to them about preparing early for retirement and be able to focus on other things, like each other, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. this is the first power plant in the country to combine solar and natural gas at the same location. during the day, we generate as much electricity

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without a prescription. cardioviva. welcome back. we have breaking news to report. new york law enforcement officials say the nypd has taken four people in for questions believed to be connected to drugs found in phillip seymour hoffman's apartment. that does it for this edition of "ac 360 later." thank you very much for everybody on our panel. there's a saying around here,

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