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tv   CNN Newsroom  CNN  February 10, 2014 6:00am-8:01am PST

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the news continues with carol costello and "the news room". >> thanks so much. day four in the murder trial in the case some saying is similar to that of george zimmerman. michael dunn accused of killing a black teenager outside a gas station in 2012 after a dispute over loud music. dunn expected to testify in a case that put florida's stand your ground law in the spot light again. "news room" starts now.
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as i said we are having a little bit of technical difficulties. let me go on. i'm carol costello. thank you for joining eme. we begin with a controversial stand your ground case underway in florida. michael dunn accused of killing a young african-american teenager over loud music. that is not how dunn tells it. he insists he was in fear for his life when he pulled a gun and pumped nine bullet holes into a teenager's suv. this weekend's dunn's fiance said dunn said quote i hate that thug music. good morning. >> it is possible the state could rest early this week. this was a working weekend for the jurors with key witnesses taking the stand. after a rare and emotional session in which the prosecution called michael dunn's fiance it
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testify. she was shaken as surveillance video from november 23, 2012 played in court. >> somebody is shooting. >> what did you hear? >> i heard pop, pop, pop. >> reporter: minutes earlier she and dunn stopped at a jacksonville gas station and parked next to a red suv with a group of teenagers inside. >> what did the defendant say? >> i hate that thug music. >> reporter: what unfolded next is at the crux of the case. dunn told investigators there was an argument over loud music and then said he heard threats, saw a weapon, took his gun out of the glove box and fired out shots in self defense. 17-year-old jordan davis was shot and killed. >> i went over this a million times. and what i should have done is put the car in reverse.
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but it was fight or flight. >> reporter: police say they never found a gun in the teen's red dodge durango. they checked into a hotel and ordered a pizza. she testified they sat by the elevator truly believing police were coming. as to who might take the stand today some of the possibilities include leland brunsen's mother, jordan davis's best friend sitting in the back seat of the car when thet shooting took place. beyond that it is possible that jordan davis's father might be called to the stand. we are sure the medical examiner will be testifying at some point today. >> reporting live from jacksonville, florida. we will talk more about the trial in the next block of "news room". according to barbara starr the obama administration is talking
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about staging an operation to kill an american citizen involved with al qaeda. barbara starr joins us to tell us about this. >> the associated press was the first to report this but cnn has now confirmed that at the highest level of the obama administration there is discussion about an operation, a u.s. military operation to go after an american citizen who is expected of al qaeda involvement overseas. no decision has been made we are told. this is all being discussed at the highest levels of the national security community in the administration and the military commanders trying to come to an understanding whether they believe this target is worth the risk of going after. they are not offering a lot of details. this is apparently going on potentially it might happen in a country that would not allow u.s. ground troops in. so we are talking about a potential drone attack.
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the question for these commanders is, is it still worth the risk to go after this american citizen? of course, it is very, very politicly sensitive for so many obvious reasons for the u.s. to target americans. it happened back in 2011 when the u.s. went after the american borne cleric in yemen. very few details about apparently discussions are underway at the highest levels of the obama administration. >> any idea from your perspective who this american citizen is? >> we don't know. it is interesting. over the last month, for example, u.s. officials have said it has been well known there are a number of american citizens fighting with al qaeda and with al qaeda affiliates in any number of countries. there have been americans in somalia, in yemen, again, of
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course. recently the u.s. said it was tracking a number of americans in syria. and the secretary of homeland security today recently said that syria is now a homeland security issue for the united states. officials are not disclosing any other information at this point. it appears to be a very sensitive matter if they decide to proceed with it. >> i'll let you get back to digging. barbara starr reporting live this morning. a a story very much about courage. michael sam is ferocious on the field, an all american among college athletes and he is gay. the defensive lineman said he shared his secret back in august. now with the nfl draft only a few months away he has nothing to hide. john berman has more from new york. michael sam is 6'2", 255 pounds. he is a big guy, strong but real strength is what he is doing
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right now. >> i'm michael sam. i'm a football player and i'm gay. >> reporter: all american defensive end and nfl hopeful michael sam making history revealing that he is gay in interviews with espn and the "new york times." >> i was afraid it would leak out without me owning my truth. i want to let the world know and tell them i'm gay. >> reporter: if drafted this spring sam would become the first openly gay player in the national football league. >> i understand how big this is. it is a big deal no one has done this before. and it's kind of nervous process but i know what i want to be and i want to snap in the nfl. >> reporter: reaction poured in almost instantly with nfl releasing a statement of support writing we admire michael sam's
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honesty and courage. michael is a football player. any player with ability and determination can succeed in the nfl. we look forward to welcoming and supporting michael sam. sam a projected mid round nfl pick told his coach and teammates about his sexual orientation in august. >> i was scared. even though he knew, the reaction was awesome. they supported me from day one. >> many former teammates took to social media to rally around the 6'2", 255 pound lineman. linebacker brothers tweeted we are family and we support all of our players. nothing changes. it takes a lot of courage to do what he did and we are behind him all the way. sam launched a twitter account sunday night to thank everyone for their support, his announcement a landmark moment in confronting homophobia in
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professional sports. in case you are wondering whether a gay athlete can succeed at the top levels of sports like this his team finished 12-2 this year, fifth in the nation. he played in the sec which is the toughest conference in college football. a lot of people think it is like pro football already. this guy can play and succeed. he is likely to go somewhere in the mid range of the draft coming up. >> it all sounds so promising but "sports illustrated" is reporting that some within the nfl don't see great things for this kid. >> he is undericized for a defensive end. he will have to switch positions which is something he will have to deal with no matter what. and then a lot of personnel people look to players' back grounds. maybe it will affect draftt status. he and others are hoping that
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the teams that pass on him will come to regret it. >> we'll see. john berman many thanks. >> you can see more of john this morning as he and michaela debut their new show at 11:00 eastern. new disturbing video of kenneth bae held captive in north korea. on this tape he says he is not giving up hope. the tape shows bae as he met with a diplomat on friday. he is serving time in a labor camp. he had an emotional message for his family. to my family just let them know even though i am here but i am still continuing and i have not lost hope. >> this morning a former u.s. ambassador to south korea arrived. there are many moving parts to
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the party. let's go to seoul, south korea and paula hancock. >> reporter: we know this monday night donald greg, the former ambassador ambassador. they believe it is linked to kenneth bae speculating he is trying to lobby for the u.s. citizen's release. at this point we don't have the direct link. it would be a remarkable coincidence if he happened to be there at the same time. so we are waiting to see on tuesday. it is 11:00 at night here. as of tuesday morning we are hoping to get more information. as you say bae has been shown once again to be back in the labor camp. this is exactly what his family did not want to see. it is what kenneth bae did not want to see. he is saying he is very concerned about his health and
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saying that if he was going to be in that camp for much longer he believes he would be back in hospital. he has back and neck pain. he says he has gum infection and lost about ten pounds in the last three weeks. listen to what he says. >> i'm going to stay strong. but my main concern right now and my condition is hard laborer for the next couple of months would be difficult. they can do something right away is the best way to do it. >> so continuing concerns for kenneth bae's health. >> paula hancocks reporting live from south korea this morning. the news room court is now in session in florida as the loud music murder trial resumes following a one-day break. we will break down trial with our legal analysts next. ♪
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the prosecution would rest today in the trial of a florida man accused of murdering a teenager. michael dunn's murder trial enters a second week. dunn says he killed jordan davis in self defense in a dispute over loud music but police never found a weapon in davis's suv. dunn's girlfriend testified she saw a gun in the glove box moments after shots fired. good morning to all of you. >> good morning. >> i want to start with you, what is going on in the
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courtroom now? >> more witnesses are taking to the stand today. right now going into the courtroom they have a dna expert talking about the specifics of the case. later today things could get really interesting. we are told jordan davis's father might testify and leland brunsen's mother, jordan davis's best friend in the suv at the time of the shooting. according to attorneys his mother was inside. those are some of the possible big witnesses that could testify today. >> dna expert on the stand now. >> and then declared an expert in firearms identification in the state of florida? >> i have. >> how many times? >> 55 or 60 times approximately. >> having been declared an expert on firearms have you gone on to give an opinion on firearms identification? >> i have.
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>> how many times? >> approximately 55 to 60 times. >> i would tender her to the jury as expert in firearms ammunition identification. >> ladies and gentlemen, same instructions holds for ms. pagan. she is declared to be an expert in the area of firearms identification, ammunition identification. so she will be able to render an opinion about that subject matter. >> are there numerous types and calibers of handguns? >> there are. >> can you explain the difference between a revolver and a ppistol or specifically a semi-automatic? >> with a revolver it is a manual gun. i think most are familiar with how revolveers have a cylinder in them and manually load cartridges so that each time when you fire and pull the triggerer the hammer will pull back if you haven't already
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pulled it back manually. the hammer will fall and with each pull of the trigger the cylinder will rotate and shift to the next unfired cartridge. you can fire until you have spent all of your cartridges and fired all bullets. at that point the user has to manually push the cylinder out, take out the fired cartridges, remove them and reload the firearm. with a semi-automatic you have a magazine which the user can load with cartridges. you place the cartridge into the magazine well of the pistol. with each pull the gun fires and the slide will cycle and will feed a new fresh cartridge. it will pull out the old cartridge automatically. when it shuts it will feed a new fresh cartridge so that with each pull of the trigger one shot will be fired, extracted,
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ejected and a new cartridge fed. >> let me ask you to explain the different parts of a whole cartridge or a bullet. >> what most people will call a bullet but are technically called a cartridge consistenting of three or four main components. you have like a brass cup that makes the base. and inside the brass cup is where the gun powder goes in. on top of the brass cup sits in kind of snuggly is the bullet. on the bottom of the cup is a small metal disk called the primer. when the hammer or the pin hits it that is what starts the ignition explosion. so you have your brass cup, your bullet on top, your gun powder inside and then your primer on the bottom. >> if i ask you about a .9 mill
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meter meet -- millimeter cartridge. >> that is the diameter of the bullet or the bore of the gun. >> small caliber, medium caliber or large caliber ammunition? >> medium to large caliber. it is not a small caliber. >> how far can a .9 millimeter semi-automatic weapon fire if there is nothing to obstruct the bullet? >> it will continue to travel until it hits something unless it runs out of momentum. i'm not sure exactly how far it would be. it is a good distance. it's not just a few yards. you are looking at several hundred yards probably before -- it would start to lose power at some point. >> what happens specifically when the shell casing -- what happens specifically to the shell casing when a semi-automatic pistol fires?
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>> when the gun is fired the explosion occurs. that is what the pressure buildup pushes the bullet out of the muzzle. and that will travel in the forward direction. the cartridge case -- if the gun is pointing that way the bullet will go that way. the cartridge case stays inside the gun and it is forced in the opposite direction. the bullet goes that way and cartridge case slams against the inside of the gun providing momentum to automatically cycle the gun. it will slam against inside surfaces as well as get fatter. it will operate and slam against the surface, push the slide back which then starts the process of extracting that spent cartridge case and ejecting it out of the gun. >> is there a certain ejection pattern for certain types of semi-automatic pistols? >> we will step away from the testimony. this is maria pagan.
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she is describing the type of gun used by the defendant in this case, michael dunn, to kill that florida teenager in his suv. i want to parse this out. she is describing the gun because according to police mr. dunn initially fired into the suv. as the suv was speeding away he fired at the departing vehicle which is rather disturbing as you hear the testimony. a bullet from a .9 millimeter handgun can travel until had hits something. >> it suggests he was endang endangering the occupants of the suv but by standers could have been killed by a reckless action. technically that is probably not relevant here. the only relevance here is was he acting in self defense with respect to the suv occupants. as a prosecutor you want to get
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this in front of the jury because they are going to look at the whole picture. >> the victim in this case was sitting in the back seat i believe. and mr. dunn thought he saw the paral barrel of a shotgun and freaked out and instead of driving away he fired into the suv killing jordan davis. saturday his fiance took the stand. i want to play a bit of what she had to say about when they initially pulled into the gas station and heard the loud music coming from the teenager's suv. let's listen. i apologize. we are having a lot of technical difficulties today. in testimony the fiance of michael dunn testified when they pulled into the gas station and heard the loud music coming from the teenager's suv michael dunn
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supposedly said i hate that kind of thug music. he was upset from the get go. in my estimation the fiance's testimony actually hurt the case. ? >> it hurt it significantly. you laid it out well what the facts of the case are showing. with regards to the testimony it is significant for two reasons. the first reason is to the fiance why it is important because she states to his state of mind. he hates that thug music. what does that tell you about his predisposition? what does that tell you about what he was feeling. if you have a prosecution the argument is it shows anger and intention and malice. the second significant portion of her testimony was that she mentioned that they were drinking. of course, she said, you can argue that he didn't appear to be impaired but the fact that he was drinking further adds to what was he really acting like? were his actions reasonable or
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was he impaired by the alcohol? i agree the testimony was favorable to the prosecution and hurt her fiance in a very significant way. we are going to take a quick break and be back with much more after this. it says here that a woman's sex drive increases at the age of 80. helps reduce the risk of heart disease. keep heart-healthy. live long. eat the 100% goodness of post shredded wheat. doctors recommend it.
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we are going to head back to the courtroom in jacksonville, florida, where the weapons expert is continuing her testimony talk about the .9 millimeter handgun and bullet fragment.
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let's listen. >> keep your voice up for our court reporter. >> or maybe refer another one of those -- that's fine. >> and the ones here on the ---that would be your right. that's a jacket fragment. it is pretty small and it's largely damaged as well as turned in on itself. so it is not likely that any of the marks that were there would be eitherer visible or viable or lessens the chance that it would be useful. >> stay right there. i am going to show you one more item of evidence. this is entered as state's exhibit 189. are those representative, also, of items you can identify? >> again, it is kind of the same thing. i can't say for sure unless i was to actually look at them under a microscope whether they
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would be of value. they are highly damaged and distorted. again, that would lessen the chances that they would be of value for identification. >> could you walk into the exhibit for the jury. are there times when a more substantial piece of lead fired from a gun cannot be identified completely? >> we can get bullets that look in tact without much damage but they might not be marked well. some guns mark well and others do not mark well. sometimes it doesn't matter if there is a lot of damage. some do not mark bullets well enough to be used for
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identification. we take a look at them and look at what kind of marks are there and see if we can find things. it varies from gun to gun. >> let me begin by showing you state exhibit 186 and asking you to refer to your report and tell me, is this one of the items which would be submission 1, item 2 that you reviewed for your purposes? >> yes, it is. >> and in looking at that one under a microscope, were you able to either identify or eliminate that as having been fired from the gun submitted to you? >> i was not. >> tell the jurors what is your findings that you may neither
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eliminate nor identify that particular piece means. >> it means the gun may or may not have fired from this particular firearm. i was not able to come to a conclusion. >> that is one of the items you were able to show earlier with the attributes that you could not actually be able to look for the little ridges and details that you described, is that correct? >> i'm not sure if i understand what you are asking. >> when i had you show that to the jury and you showed them parts of that, is it missing the type of ridge detail you would need to be able to come to a more definite conclusion? >> i did find that this jacket, neither this bullet jacket nor the test i fired myself into the water tank, the tests weren't marked very well. this wasn't marked very well. this will be one of the cases where it is a gun that doesn't mark bullets very well and could
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be a function of the type of ammunition being used. this gun did not appear to mark bullets very well. so it would be very difficult to identify builts that were in my opinion very difficult to identify bulletts fired from this gun to that gun. >> thank you, ma'am. were there other items thereat you could not identify even though they appear to be as large as the ones i have shown you. >> i had two other bullets submitted. i should probably note that in the barrel there are grooves cut out in the barrel and in the twist so that it spins on to the bullet. this particular gun had six grooves cut into it and a right twist. and the grooves are also a certain width. and i did find that the bullets that were submitted to me, the bullets and the jacket submitted to me did have the correct
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amount of grooves and twists. there were six grooves and were a compatible width so the -- we call those class characteristics because it is possible for other guns to have six grooves with a twist of a similar width. it does help narrow it down. for instance if these had five grooves and my gun had six grooves then i could automatically eliminate it. the class characteristics of the bullets and jacket match. however, i was not able to, again, i could not identify it as being fired in that gun or eliminate it as being fired in that gun. >> let me ask you to assume the following fact for the purpose of the question i will ask you. assume that the two bullets i am about to show you were fired through a vehicle and into a human's body, my question to you looking at state's exhibit and then recovered from the medical
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examiner's office, would 190 and 192 fit the type of examination you just described? >> yes. >> and submission to item 2 recovered from the medical examiner's office were you able to identify this bullet as having been fired from the gun you examined? >> no. i could neither identify nor eliminate. >> 192 in evidence. now i am showing 192 and asking you the same questions. this was recovered from the sheriff's office from the medical examiner. were you able to eliminate or identify that as having been fired from the gun? >> no, i was not. >> just a second to get these back. >> yes, ma'am.
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were there further items of evidence that you did in this case? >> yes, there were. >> when you referred to these particular three bullets that we just described -- >> we are going to jump away from the testimony to give insight as to why the prosecutor is asking this witness these questions. and i will pose the question to you, it seems to me that the defense will try to prove that these young men had a gun in the car and as they drove away they ditched the gun. now we find there are unidentifiable bullet fragment inside the suv, is that where they are going with this? >> the defense could attempt to exploit this. bringing it back home, this was not a shootout. and, in fact, the bullets through the sound we heard previous to this it was sound where you heard pop, pop, pop, pop. there were bullets fired. in an instance like this where there is not a shootout clearly it came from his gun. the defense at some future point can try to explain it could have
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been someone else. what she is saying is i can't identify nor can i eliminate. certainly the probability is that those projectiles do match the gun. i don't think it bears particular relevance because there was one gun here. >> is there anyway that the prosecution a can absolutely prove that the young men never had a gun, that they didn't ditch it? >> no. they can't. it is really circumstantial evidence because they came back right into the same parking spot in a very short period of time and there was no gun in the car nor was there a gun found around the gas station. they are going to use circumstantial evidence. why you are watching the extensive explanation of bullet fragments i call it the csi effect. jurys want to know what does ballistics say about every piece of evidence at the scene. if the prosecutor didn't put this expert on the defense
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attorney would be saying why didn't they identify the bullets in the car. and the jury would be left with this impression these are unidentified bullets. so they want to introduce an explanation for every piece of evidence recovered at the scene. so in the end the only bullets are the shots fired by the defendant. >> let's head to jacksonville and pose a question to tory dunnan. jordan davis's father may take the stand. >> we are hearing jordan davis's father might testify to the fact that he met with these three teenage boys in the car with jordan davis. when he met with them after thet shooting took place the defense attorney says he will testify to the point that they were in a traumatic state and couldn't get stories right.
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through is a possibility he will take the stand but not a for sure thing. >> stand by. i have to take a break. we will be back much more in the news room. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. as he gets dressed... you know the shirt he'll choose... the wine he'll order.
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we are going to continue to follow the trial proceedings from jacksonville, florida. michael dunn accused of killing 17-year-old jordan davis supposedly over loud music. a weapons expert showed the jury the .9 millimeter hand gun that michael dunn kept in his hand gun, the gun used to kill jordan davis. in other news this morning the clinton's marriage is back in the spot light. imagine that. this time courtesy of diane blair. the conservative website that reported on blair's writings housed at the university of arkansas. the website claims blair wrote about hillary's private reaction to bill's affair saying, quote, it was a laugh but she says to his credit she tried to break it
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off, tried to pull away and tried to manage someone who was clearly a narcissistic looney tune but beyond control. the report echoes recent comments from rand paul saying bill clinton is a liability to the democrats. >> anybody who wants to take money from bill clinton or have a fundraiser has explaining to do. if they want to take a position on women's rights do but you can't do it and take it from a guy using his position of authority to take advantage of young women in the work place. >> national political reporter joins us now. tell us more about diane blair and the private papers. >> diane blair was a long-time friend of the clinton's. hillary clinton refers to her once as her closest friend. she is mentioned as a very dear friend. bill clinton spoke at a memorial
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service after she passed away. these documents became public in 2010. these notes, pages and pages of them. diane blair was a researcher on bill clinton's first campaign. you can see her meticulous note taking at work here, dispassionate recounting of her conversations with hillary clinton. yes, there is a mention of monica lewinsky. one of them again coming from the perspective of diane blair is that hillary clinton during the health care debates apparently said single payer health care system would be a necessity, something that contradicts what she said during the 2008 presidential campaign which she said she never supported. this is just the latest. >> reporting live from washington. thanks so much.
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>> want to head to jacksonville, florida, to listen to this weapons expert talking about the .9 millimeter hand gun used to kill 17-year-old jordan davis. >> you have to pull the slide back and load a cartridge. >> did you check the semi-automatic for function? >> yes, i did. >> and was there anything wrong with the function of this gun? >> let me double check. may she bring her notes down here? i have several questions and demonstrations for the jury? >> yes. >> thank you. >> i'm sorry, what was the last question. >> did you find anything at all faulty with the function of this semi-automatic weapon? >> the firearm did function. the only problem that i found with with it was one of the safety functions didn't quite
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operate like it normally would. but you -- it was the thumb safety. you could put it in safe position but it didn't operate as smoothly as it normally would. >> tell the jurors was a safety feature is. >> a safety feature is a feature that the manufacturer puts into the guno help prevent accidental shootings or to make the gun more safe to carry and to prevent people from accidentally shooting themselves or other people. >> without being right there on scene and watching the shooter would you know whether or not they had the safety on or off prior to shooting? >> no. >> how many safeties are there on this particular firearm? >> it has a thumb safety and two internal safeties and it has a hammer intercept notch. >> do you consider the handle the grip of this pistol to be fairly large or is it typical for the .9 millimeter?
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>> forperhaps -- being female it feels a little large but it depends on the person using it. >> what does it mean to fire this double action? >> double action is when -- the best way to explain it probably is to show you. single action mode is when the user pulls the hammer back so it is in cocked position like now. if i pull it back myself and now it is in this position and i pull the trigger that is single action because the trigger is dropping the hammer. if i don't pull the hammer back manually and i don't use the slide to pull it back, if the hammer is and i was to pull the trigger and it releases the hammer that is double action mode. >> does that affect the trigger pull when the shooter decides to fire double action or single
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action? >> that will affect the force required to have the trigger pull. >> and what does it mean to fire this gun single action? >> single action would be if i manually cock >> if you presume that the safety was on while this pistol was holstered, is that yet another step the shooter would have to take to get the gun in a ready-to-fire position? >> yes, it is. >> did you testify about this pistol? >> yes, i did. >> tell the jurors what type of test you performed? >> when i first received the gun, i digitally inspect it and see if it appears to be functioning properly, if it appears to be safe. i also will dry fire it and see if it appears to be functioning properly. at that point, if i deem it safe to test fire it, i take it into
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the range and i'll fire a couple shots into the water tank and then i'll retrieve the bullets that i fired and the spent cartridge cases and those will be what i use to make my comparisons. >> did you make note of in which direction the shell casings ejected from this firearm? >> no, i did not. >> did you make note that the shell casings do eject from this firearm? >> yes. i don't believe i had them. >> if you don't know direction but do they eject and fly outside of the gun when it is fired? >> yes. i didn't note that i had any problems with the ejection. >> can you give the jury a common example of what trigger pull means for a human being's finger? >> well, it is referring again to the amount of force, the amount that is required to pull the trigger back. so if the trigger pull is about six pounds, you are looking at six pounds of pressure on that trigger in the backwards
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direction. so it would be like pushing something that weighed six pounds backwards towards you. >> what is the trigger pull of this 9 millimeter when fired single action? >> approximately 6.5 pounds. >> double action? >> approximately 13 pounds. >> once a round is chambered into this pistol, does the shooter still have to pull the trigger with at least 6.25 pounds of pull for each round fired? >> yes, approximately. >> so if ten shots had been fired from this specific pistol, does that mean with each shot, it is 6.25 pounds to pull that trigger? >> yes, approximately. >> does that differ from a fully automatic weapon where you pull the trigger once and the shots just keep going? >> that's correct. >> does this take a conscious effort of the shooter to have that second bullet come out? >> i would say so. you have to activate your finger each time. >> and a third bullet?
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>> yes, for each fire. you have to pull that trigger. >> all the way up to ten bullets? >> yes, however many. >> we're going to break away and bring in our legal analyst, paul callan and joey jackson. they talked ai lot about this 9 millimeter gun and how it fires bullets and how far they travel. where is the prosecutor going with this? >> there are two major points to be made. the first and most basic, it was an operable gun. fired in the water tank, no problem. look at the pressure, 6.2 pounds over and over and over again. what does that tell us? it means intention, purpose, it means i knew exactly what i was doing. that all adds up to the charge, which is intentional murder. >> i believe that maria pagano is about to be cross examined. let's listen to that. >> you are an expert in handling
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these? >> yes, sure. >> you have done this your whole career. >> yes, i have handled many guns. to show the jury, this is no the how it would sit inside the holster? >> right. it would be going in a bit furth. >> in fact, you can see an outline of the trilogier guard right here on the holster? >> yes, that's correct. >> so that means it would go all the way in, would you agree with that? >> yes, i would. >> isn't it true if that wasn't packaged for the state this way, you would never be able to fire the gun like that in the holster, because you couldn't get your finger on the trigger? >> i can't tell if you would be able to slip your finger in there. >> the way you can see the trigger guard. >> i would think you probably couldn't but unless i saw it in there, i couldn't say for sure. >> because it is packaged by the state this way? >> because it has the zip tie, which keeps me from putting it on. >> what is the manufacturer's trigger pull poundage? >> i am not sure what they have
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listed. >> tell me what year that gun was manufactured? >> i believe this was manufactured in 1988. >> did you do any research on that gun? >> i did look that up. usually, if we want to know that information, we can go to the manufacturer's website and often they will have that information on their specks list. if they don't, we can call the manufacturer to get that information. >> you have been on this case since when? >> i believe i received it december, 2012. >> you knew you were coming here to testify, correct? >> yes. >> you knew the state was going to call you as an expert, correct? >> yes. >> you didn't look up any of the specific quag specifications for this jury? >> just because it is usually not relevant. we find most of the times theechb a manufacturer will specify a particular trigger pull, we rarely find that to be the case when we measure trigger pull. things can vary as well as change over time. and you never know if the owner
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or previous owner might have changed out springs or parts which would effect the trigger pull. >> let me stop you right there. do you know if anyone other than michael dunn owned that gun? >> i don't know. >> did you do a history on the serial number? >> that's not my job so i don't know. >> is the serial number clearly marked on the sghun. >> yes, it is. >> you guys at fdle have specific computers and technology to track guns, correct? >> we are not the ones that would run a serial number. >> you said it is not your job, though, correct? >> not something i would do. >> you didn't do it. in this case, did you ever take the gun apart? >> no. i believe i probably field stripped it to take the slide off and check out the safety. >> when you field stripped it, did you check to see if the trigger was ever modified, customized, made to be what we call a hair trigger, anything like that? >> no. i was looking specifically at how the safety was functioning
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but just generally, you look at the parts to see if anything does look altered. i didn't notice anything that looked suspicious. >> you are an analyst at fdle? you are not a technical leader or supervisor, is that true? >> yes. >> i'm sorry. you can have a seat again. >> how many times have you testified as an expert for ballistics, 65? >> yes. >> did you tell the jury a safety is so you don't have an accidental shooting? >> the safeties help prevent accidental shootings. >> isn't it true there is no such thing as an accidental shooting? it is called a negligent discharge, isn't that true? >> i don't know. we usually say accidental shooting. i'm okay with the term negligent discharge too. >> you have heard of that in your scientific field, isn't that true? >> actually, i don't recall hearing that term before but i'm sure it is used. >> negligent discharge, meaning
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an operator's error. the person holding the gun would be negligent in using it? >> that makes sense. >> you said you could not eliminate or say positive the testing. you said you shot with the big thing of water and it doesn't match the gun, right? >> correct, with the bullets. i could not identify or eliminate the bullets. >> you didn't use the same ammo but all the ammo you could find, isn't that true? >> i believe i used the same type. i used the same type of ammo. i used winchester ammunition but i used a full metal jacket and not a jacket at hallowed point like the one here. >> so the answer is, yes, you did not use the same ammo?
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>> sure. i chose to useful metal jacket because when you fire it, it stays together nicely, stays in pristine condition. a lot of times when you fire the jacket at hal lollow point, tha will expand and that might cover up the marks i want to see. you usually get the same type of mark. your typically going to get the same type of marks. >> you didn't too that. it didn't happen? >> no. i used the full metal. >> you couldn't identify it? >> correct. >> you couldn't identify the markings or the stripeings? >> i found the test didn't mark well as well as the evidence bullets weren't well marked. there wasn't much information on the bullets to use to compare to each other, to make any kind of conclusion. >> isn't it true in your experience, it is actually very common to be able to match bullets through a test fire into this water tank that you use at your office? >> yes, we do commonly identify bullets. >> you couldn't in this case, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> now, let me ask you this, is
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there a difference in a sound between a 38-caliber bullet and a 9-millimeter bullet? > >> i would believe you would probably notice a difference in sound. >> there are a ton of different variables, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> good morning, everybody. we just reached the top of have the hour. it's 10:00 eastern. we are covering a trial from jacksonville, florida. this is the trial of michael dunn, accused of killing a teenager named jordan davis over loud music coming from the teenager's car at a gas station. michael dunn is using florida's stand your ground case as the defense. on the stand right now is a woman named maria pagano, a weapons expert for florida. she talked about the 9-millimeter handgun used to kill him. she is being cross examined now. >> i would suspect the report
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would sound the same. >> different guns with different ammos have different sounds? >> i would expect so. >> i am not putting words in your mouth or twisting your expertise around. that's a fair and accurate representation? >> sure. >> do bullets make right turns once they are fired? >> no. they travel in a straight line unless they hit someone. >> do bullets make a left turn? >> same answer. >> do bullets go up after they have been fired? >> same. >> do they go down after they have been fired? >> they are acted upon by gravity so eventually, they will drop. >> gradually? >> gradually. >> they are not going to make a turn down on a diagonal down, correct? >> no. >> that's a fair and accurate representation of how bullet trajectory works, is that correct? >> yes, i believe so. >> even if it hits an object and ricochets, it is still not after it ricochets going to start going right, left, up or down,
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correct? bullets just don't do that in this world? >> yes. >> that would defy the laws of physics, would it not? >> yes. >> now, let me ask you this. when you test fired this gun, even a hollow point is one jacket and one core, is that correct? >> that's correct. >> the jacket folds back for the core? >> yes. >> tell me about a shotgun shell. how many pellets are in a shotgun shell? >> it varies. >> a 12-gauge could have 930-caliber bearings? >> a typical amount of pellets in a 12-gauge, they often have 9 pellets. >> that's for what we call double -- >> objection, it's irrelevant. >> sustained. >> let me ask you this. does that have a different sound or different function than just a single bullet, a shotgun bullet? >> yes, shotguns would most likely sound different than a
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pistol. >> they shoot multiple versus one? >> correct. >> now, when you said that gun is large or that trip was large to you, was there any modifications to that gun to make it bigger? >> no. >> is there anything done to that gun in your expertise to make it more powerful or more deadly? >> no. >> more accurate? >> not that i'm aware of, no. >> it's just a regular manufactured gun, no custom work to it, correct? >> it doesn't appear to have any. >> no modifications? >> no, not that i saw. >> not even an after-market part put ton? >> i don't know about the grip, if it is an after-market grip, i would have to look at it again but i didn't see anything special that looked different or like it was modified to be more
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powerful. >> if you did, it would have been in your report or you would have just testified to the jury? >> yes, that's correct. >> you didn't do that? >> correct. >> judge, if i can just have one moment. >> yes, sir. >> nothing further, judge. >> bear briefly. >> despite the sound this gun might make when fired, does it still fire bullets that can kill human beings? >> yes. >> are there any of the skes that mr. strola asked you on cross exam that in any way prevent the shooter from firing this weapon from killing the human being when they aim that gun and fire in the direction of human beings? >> no. >> may she be excused? >> yes. >> we are going to step away and bring in our experts.
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ashleigh banfield is live in jacksonville, florida. she is covering this trial. paul callan and joey jackson are with me. we have heard a lot about this 9 millimeter gun, ashleigh. kind of set the scene for us. >> reporter: finally, it is sunny for starters. weather is pretty miserable. when it is sunny, lots of people come out. i don't know if you can hear behind me. there is an echo of a loud speaker. some people out protesting in the case the same as in the zimmerman case. why you are seeing what you are seeing now is what i like to call taking the box off all the evidence and making sure you cross every "t" and dot every "i." everybody seems to stimulate he shot the gun. he says he was the shooter. it was all about what was in his state of mind.
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what i find critical about the bullets and position of bullets and where they ended up in the red suv. if you are afraid, do you shoot at a fleeing car. that may end upcoming in and being better highlighted later on. again, you don't leave anything unturned. you have to make sure everything is on the record. >> i want to go back a couple of days and set the scene for our viewers. it was early evening the night this shooting went down at a gas station. michael dunn pul michael dunn pulls into the gas station. his fiancee was in the car. he goes into the gas station car to buy some wine. he is disturbed these teenagers are playing the loud music. the fiancee took the stand over the weekend and had some dramas tick testimony. let's listen. >> as you were inside the store, could you hear the music coming from the red suv? >> no. >> while you were in the store, could you hear any sort of arguing going on? >> no. >> as you were walking to the
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register, did you hear anything unusual? >> yes. >> what did you hear? >> i heard pop, pop, pop. >> when you heard those noises, did you know what they were? >> no, i didn't. >> did you know where they were coming from? >> no, i didn't. >> where were you when you first heard pop, pop, pop? >> the register kind of goes like you have a long one and the cash register is like right here. i was walking up the aisle and the clerk was standing hair. >> were you at all paying attention to what was going on outside? >> no, i wasn't. >> she also testified when they first pulled into the gas station that michael dunn said to her, i hate that thug music. those were his words. also, i should point out that
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dunn said he hasn't realized he killed anyone at this point. in my mind, paul, ms. rouer's testimony was quite damaging. >> i think it was damaging. joey jackson can tell similar stories. you are always worried that the fiancee or the wife or some close relative who has information might get forced on to the witness stand. if they go against your client, the defendant, it is really tough. we have to throw in one other thing. the defense attorney tried to attack her or i shouldn't say attack her. to use her to help mr. dunn by saying when they fled and went to st. augustine for the pizza, mr. dunn went to a bed and breakfast place after the shooting in a very uncharacteristic move by somebody who has just killed a human being. they ordered pizza and remained there. she took the full blame saying she insisted that they stay there. as bad as she was for the
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defense, at least the defense attorney got something out of her that i think he will try to use in his summation later on. >> still, joey, it was disturbing. after the shooting goes down, they go to this bed and breakfast and order a pizza. they don't call the police at all. even if she said it was her idea, wouldn't it be mr. dunn's duty to call the police after he pumped some bullets into someone else's car? >> you know, carol, to your question. i think the jury is asking that same thing. they are certainly thinking about, what constitutes reasonableness. if you are in imminent fear for your life, you saw a stick, you saw the butt of a gun, you saw something that you thought could take your life and you reacted, because you had to and had no other alternative, what does human behavior dictate that you do following that, that you call 911, that you stay and that you tell the police, i didn't mean to do it or, oh, my god, it was my only alternative or does reasonableness dictate that you go and that you go to a bed and
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breakfast and order a pizza and that at some subsequent time, you travel back 130 miles? not to the crime scene, of course. the reality is that it does not comfort with human behavior. one could argue the prosecution will certainly make that argument. i think the jury is wondering if he was in such imminent fear, why did he react in the manner that he did following the shooting? >> the other question i have, and i'll pose this for ashleigh, because she has to go and prepare for her own show in a little bit. if you suspect a group of teenagers are armed and dangerous traveling in an suv, don't you want to protect others by calling the police too? >> the reasonableness is so critical. i have to add one detail. nobody is saying that mr. dunn knew he shot and killed anybody at the time. so let's all make sure that we are in that paradigm if you are trying to put yourself in his head, which these jurors are going to have to do.
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he shot at a car and they took off. he might have thought that was the end of it, goat a few bullets into a car. for me, it is not reasonable. i am from canada. jurors that live here might feel differently. i might be nervous or concerned after having fired a weapon. at this point, with he don't know that dunn knows he has killed anybody. the girl testified she saw it on the news and became very agitated and upset about that. that's important. there is so much to this that requires being inside the head of dunn. that's the law. like it or lump it in florida. that's the law and that's what the jurors are going to be asked to do. if you were a reasonable person would you feel due to the same thing. >> you know, carol, the law even has a name for inappropriate behavior after a shooting like this. it is called consciousness. if you flee the scene, that's consciousness of guilt. here, somebody going to a hotel
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and checking in and ordering a pizza, certainly doesn't sound like he is acting appropriately. >> so that's something the jury will look at. >> one other point, carol, as to ashleigh's point, there is no indication he knew he killed anyone. going back to reasonableness? you have a semiautomatic. you are pulling it. you are intentionally doing it. you fire off ten rounds. nine hit the car. you speed off. do you have no knowledge at all that no bullet hit anything. wouldn't you want to stop, seek it out? wouldn't you want to know what damaged, if any, you caused? >> i think that's what the jurors are thinking about as they hear this unfold. >> i am going to have to take a break. ashleigh banfield, joey jackson, paul, thanks very much. i'll be back in a minute. [ male announcer ] if you have yet to master the quiet sneeze...
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now, to the breaking news story out of washington, a senior u.s. official telling cnn the obama administration is in talks about targeting an al qaeda suspect and that al qaeda suspect is american. pentagon correspondent, barbara starr is live. tell us more. >> carol, the "associated press" was the first to report that cnn has now confirmed that in the highest levels of the national security agencies and the united states military there is discussion about staging an operation to kill an american citizen overseas who is believed to be a member of al qaeda and may pose a threat to the united states. this all according to a senior
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u.s. official that cnn has spoken to. let's explain a bit more about what is going on. under the law, under the directives, the policy set up by president obama, the u.s. has the authority, has given itself the authority to kill american citizens overseas if they pose a terrorist threat to the united states and if there is no reasonable prospect of capturing them. so that's why we are seeing this discussion about a potential drone attack. by all accounts, this person in a country not disclosed. we don't know who the person is, where u.s. troops would not be permitted on the ground. they are looking at a drone attack. it has happened before in 2011, a u.s. drone struck and killed the american anwar al alaki. who was affiliated with al qaeda in that country.
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apparently, the discussion right now centers around how much risk the u.s. military and the obama administration would be willing to take to carry out this mission. carol? >> is it odd, details about this, however few details there are, have leaked out. wouldn't you want this kind of thing to be a secret? >> i think there is no question about that. the "associated press" came up with the details such as they are and what is known about it, cnn, probably along with every news organization in town working to confirm it. what we have been able to separately confirm is that these discussions are going on. very closely held a status of them. who the person is. who is the american citizen? what country they are in. that's the real close hold here. there have been these cases in the past, very controversial, of course. where this person is and what they might do about it, that's what nobody is giving up at the moment
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the nsa is going to be hurting for a long time. glen greenwald has a new gig. it is called the intercept, an online news site whose short-term mission is to provide a platform on the documents previously provided by nsa whistle blower, edward snowden. the first installment is out. the article outlines how the nsa tracks terrorists overseas so the government can call them by using drones. interesting in light of barbara starr's reporter. brian is here to talk more. brian, you interviewed greenwald on your show, "reliable sources" telling us other sources would come forward and spill secrets thanks to snowden. >> i think it is fair to say that there are people who have been inspired by edward snowden's courage and by the great good and virtue that it has achieved.
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i think there were people before edward snowden like chelsea manning and thomas drake and before that dan yelsburg. i think snowden was inspired by them and i believe there will be other sources inside the government that see extreme wrongdoing that were inspired by snowden as well. >> that makes you wonder what the obama administration feels about greenwald. >> he said he is somewhat concerned when he comes back to the united states this spring, they will try to prosecute him, try to come up with charges against him. there are some big journalism prizes that are going to be handed out this spring. he is expecting to earn at least one of them and thinks he should be here for it. on the website this morning, now that the intercept is now online, we know there is a new source. glenn greenwild describes this person as a well-placed source
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that has world in the nsa. he talks about sources coming forward potentially being inspired by edward snowden. when you hear about something that barbara starr was describing about whether to kill an american citizen using drones. it cob it is the same type of sources that are uncomfortable with what's going on and want to provoke public debate. that's what glenn greenwald wants to do with his website. >> thousands and thousands of documents stolen. now, other sources coming out. >> glenn greenwald has many documents that he has not pub licke lished. you can't launch a new site with one batch of documents.
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that's why they need to prove trust worthy. they are clearly thinking they have a long-term vision for a big news organization and snowden is just first source. now, it seems like they have other ones also. >> brian stelter, always glad you stopped by. thanks so much. >> you can catch brian and all things media related on his show, "reliable sources." it airs sunday morning at 11:00 eastern. i'll be right back. there's nothg good around ♪ ♪ turn around, barry ♪ i finally found the right snack ♪ [ female announcer ] fiber one.
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you remember monica lewinsky, her affair with bill clinton is back in the website. a new report says hillary clinton called the former white
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house inter, quote, a narcissistic loony-tune. it is based on writings from a clinton friend who has since died. she suggested that her husband cheated while dealing with the death of several people close to him, including his mom. >> these writings came from diane blair. she worked on bill clinton aex 1996 presidential campaign, was a good friend of hillary clinton and also a political science professor at the university of arkansas. that's where these papers have been scored. she died in 2001. the papers were made public in 2010. the washington freebee c beacon just gotten to them. hillary clinton had told diane blair that she viewed monica lewinsky as a narcissistic loony tune and she blamed the affair
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on bill clinton's state of mind. she said the death of his mother and her father and the death of their friend, vince foster, had taken a toll on bill clinton and that's why she said this affair came about. now, i want to point out this. she said that bill clinton had engaged in some gross inappropriate behavior but that their relationship was meaningless and also consensual, not a power play. that's very interesting because of some of these remarks that rand paul has made saying that bill clinton was a sexual predator. >> reporter: after labeling bill clinton a sexual predator for his affair with republican, monica lewinsky, rand wall is stepping up the attacks calling democrats that ask him to raise campaign cash hypocrites. >> if they want to take oi position on women's rights, do. you can't do it and take it from
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a guy who is using his position of authority to take advantage of women in the work place. >> reporter: it is raising new questions about whether paul is really trying to undermine hillary clinton, a possibly 2016 rival for the white house. he tells cnn it isn't her fault how her husband behaved but called them a fundraising team. no official response from team clinton. they are mocking paul saying bill clinton's past is ancient history. >> my biggest regret is what happened in benghazi. >> reporter: hillary clinton's recent history is a different matter, though. saturday night, paul again went after her for how she handled the attack that killed four americans. >> the thing that i think should limit hillary clinton from ever holding high office, when she was asked for reinforcements, she turned down reinforcements and we should never, ever have a commander in chief who won't send reinforcements. >> reporter: all this is a new
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book, hrc, comes out this week with insider details on clinton and her veelrelationship. the offices recounted details on his speed. he had ripped up the structure and added some of his own. hillary clinton was having none of it. it is my speech. when it comes to dealing with her, they say, he has a blind spot. >> now, carol, you also may remember the very testy exchange between rand paul and hillary clinton in that hearing about a year ago on benghazi. rand paul has been going after hillary clinton on benghazi for some time now. another revelation in this book was talked about yesterday on abc's this week and essentially, it was that general david petraeus, who is a republican, has said essentially that hillary clinton during the
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benghazi attacks was extraordinarily resolute, determined and controlled. petraeus may be something of a foil to rand paul on benghazi. we'll have to see. >> we'll see in 2016. erin mcpike, thank you so much. georgia's governor, nathan beale, has declared a state of emergency for 14 counties. according to the national weather service, the atlanta weather service seas we may get freezing rain overnight. i am sure this image is still fresh in the governor's mind. two weeks ago, metro atlanta roadway was frozen, drivers spending hours and hours in their car, tires going nowhere. people abandoned their vehicles and walked for miles to get home. nick valencia, live in atlanta to tell us more. >> reporter: here we go again. round two of this severe winter weather system moving through
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atlanta. this time, it seems or appears to be different. local and state officials are taking precautions. you mentioned governor nathan deal declaring a state of emergency. the severe weather is supposed to happen somewhere around 7:00 p.m. tonight and carrying into thursday morning. maybe 1-2 inches of snow that may not sound like much. you saw the images that were just shown on the tv screen there. it doesn't look good when you have a case like we had two weeks ago in atlanta with thousands of motorists being trapped in their cars. atlanta mayor, kasim reed and governor nathan deal are expecting that coordination will be different this time, hopefully better. we are with the salt truck distribution centers. salt drivers preparing to go out an salt those roads. we haven't seen those salt trucks hit the road just yet. local and state officials tell us it will happen. better around this time.
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>> if they mess up again, it will be ugly. at least they are trying. in florida's loud music trial, the focus is on the gun as the prosecution calls the weapons expert this morning. tory do tory dunnan. >> lots of witnesses taking the stand. the medical examiner is up next. a look at some of the dramatic temperature live from jacksonville. when possibilities become reality. with centurylink as your trusted partner, our visionary cloud infrastructure and global broadband network free you to focus on what matters. with custom communications solutions and responsive, dedicated support, we constantly evolve to meet your needs. every day of the week. centurylink® your link to what's next.
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good morning. i'm carol costello, thanks so much for joining me this morning. we are covering this trial happening out of jacksonville, florida. this is the trial of defendant, michael dunn, accused of killing 17-year-old jordan davis at a gas station.
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the two were arguing over loud music. with me to pars through this, are paul callan and joey jackson. this is the medical examiner, dr. stacy simons. >> yes, i was employed there from july of 2011 until my resignation in january of 2014. >> what is pathology? >> pathology is a specialized branch of medicine that identifies and diagnose disease and injury. >> what is forensic pathology? >> that is a pathologist that has more specialty training that allows them to conduct examination in cases of violent or suspicious or sudden and unexpected death. >> what is clinical pathology? >> clinical pathology is the study of body fluids to help diagnose disease and other entities. >> have you had study in all of those areas? >> yes. >> are you board certified in
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any of these areas? >> i am board certified in anatomic and clinical pathology and also board certified in forensic pathology. >> how many autopsies have you conducted or participated in in your career? >> well, the total number of cases that i have worked on in my car reer is approximately 1,0 to 1,050 and complete probably 800 to 825-850. >> have you ever testified in any of those special it is in florida? >> yes, i have. >> having testified, were you allowed to render opinions as an expert in those same fields in the state of florida. >> yes, i was. >> how many times? >> three times. >> at this time, i would tender dr. simons as an expert in forensic, anatomic and clinical pathology? >> no objection. >> then, dr. simons will be declared to be an expert in the
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areas of forensic, clinical and anatomical pathology. that means she can offer an opinion in those fields. >> is it the practice of the medical examiner's office for each associate medical examiner who fully document each autopsy as it is performed? >> yes. >> are you all bound by florida statutes as to what should be done in an autopsy? >> yes, we are. >> do you follow those statutes routinely for each autopsy? >> yes. >> does part of it require a toxicological exam on every person autopsied? >> it indicates if a violent death has occurred within 12 hours, if the autopsy occurs within 12 hours -- if a person dies within 12 hours of a violent incident, then you must perform a toxicological examination. >> all right, ma'am. are there people working with you throughout the medical examiner's office who do various parts of the autopsy with regard
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to bringing the body into your office, documenting clothing, performing the toxicology, et cetera? >> yes. we have a regular staff with several departments that participate. >> do all of those persons make notes as part of the normal course of your business? >> yes. >> are all of those notes and reports then put into an official autopsy report? >> yes, they have. >> are photographs taken at the time of the autopsy? >> yes, they are. >> do those also become part of the official autopsy report sf. >> they do. >> are items of physical evidence preserved and turned over to the law enforcement agency handling any particular criminal case? >> yes, they are. >> is an autopsy report kept forever at the medical examiner's office? >> yes, it is. >> was a report made for jordan davis? >> yes. >> was there a specific medical examiner number assigned to his case? >> yes, there was. judge, may i refer to my notes? >> yes, ma'am. >> just reference them to refresh your recollection. don't necessarily read from
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them. >> okay. >> so the case number assigned for jordan davis was 12-1982. >> have you had an opportunity to review this file coming to court today? >> yes, i have. >> when was the body of jordan davis brought to the medical examiner's office? >> the body of jordan davis was brought into the medical examiner's office on the morning of november 24th, 2012 at 1:14. >> as part of your statutory duty, are you required to look at any hospital records that may pertain to a patient who died at the hospital and is then brought in for an autopsy? >> yes, we do get medical records and those are reviewed. >> did you review the medical records from shan's hospital pertaining to jordan davis? >> yes, i did. >> at what time and on what date was jordan davis pronounced dead? >> he was pronounced dead on the 23rd of november at 8:15 p.m. >> was there evidence of medical intervention by either jacks
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fire and rescue or shan's hospital? >> yes, there was. >> can you briefly describe what was done for the jury? >> most prominently, there were two chest tubes shall tubes that are inserted into the sides of the chest to reinflate the lungs or remove blood. there was an endotracheal tube, a tube o opto open an airway an line that was placed in the front part of the lower left lower leg. >> does any of the medical intervention inhibit your ability to perform a proper autopsy? >> no, it does not. >> i'm going to show you a photograph marked into evidence as state's exhibit 138 and ask you, ma'am, do you recognize this? >> yes, i do. >> your honor, at this time, i would ask the court to read the stipulation and jury instruction attendant to it. >> all right. ladies and gentlemen, when lawyers agree that certain facts are true, that's called a
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stipulation of fact. you must accept the stipulated facts as having been proven. however, the significance of these facts, as with all facts, is for you to decide. in this case, the stipulated fact that i'm about to read for you that you must accept as true is the state of florida, the defendant and his attorney have hereby stipulated to the following. the body examined on november 24g9 and 25th, 2012 by dr. stacy a simons bearing the medical examiner's case number of 12-1982, is that of jordan davis. >> ma'am, again, i'll ask you, is your medical examiner number underneath mr. davis' chin in this photo for purposes of documentation? >> yes, it is. >> this photo was 138 for the record. before conducting the autopsy, was jordan davis measured for
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height? >> yes, he was. >> what height was roared for him, 5 feet, 11 inches. >> was he weighed? >> yes, he was. >> was he weighed with clothing or without? >> was weighed in what we call the as-is state, in the body bag with some sheets and his clothing. >> as he had come to you from the hospital? >> exactly. >> what was his weight with the clothing and the other items that were on the tray? >> 145 pounds. >> would you expect based on your experience that jordan davis weighed less than 145 pounds considering the amount of clothing and sheets? >> yes, i would. >> where was the autopsy conducted? >> at 2100 jefferson street in t the morgue. >> was there also a toxicology screen done? >> yes. >> explain the purpose of a toxicology screen to the jury? >> we look for anything from drugs of abuse to drugs that are
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prescribed but in inappropriate amounts to alcohol, to anything over the counter that might also be des tritrimental. >> based on the toxicology report, were there any drugs or alcohol found in his system? >> no, there was nothing found. >> were there any external wounds to the body of jordan davis? >> yes, there were. >> did some of those wounds continue to the internal portion of his body? >> yes, they did. >> what was the cause of jordan davis' death? >> multiple gunshot wounds. >> and what was the manner of his death? >> homicide. >> when the autopsy of the external portions of his body was conducted, was that on a different day from the internal portion? >> yes, it was. >> explain to to the jury, please, ma'am? >> jordan davis died over the thanksgiving weekend and our office was closed for thursday and part of friday. we had an unusually busy weekend
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with many cases coming in and also run on a somewhat shortened staff. at the time that we received jordan davis and i accepted his case, i felt it was in the best interest to give the case as much attention as possible during the external examination, the x-rays and evidence collection on the first day but then spending the time needed on the second day to do the internal examination. >> on what date did you conduct the internal examination of jordan davis' body? >> november 25th. >> did all of these things that we've mentioned, your exam, photographs, toxicology, does all of that comprise the autopsy findings on which you base your opinion to this jury? >> yes, it does. >> we're going to break away from this. i've got to take a break. we'll be back with more live from jacksonville after this.
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we're covering this trial live, the trial of michael dunn accused of shooting and killing 17-year-old jordan davis over an argument about loud music. both were at a gas station. michael dunn was in one car, jordan davis was with a couple of other friends in an suv. dunn and davis got into some sort of argument. michael dunn pulled the gun out of his glove box and fired nine shots into davis' suv. the medical examiner is now on the stand. she is describing injuries to jordan davis.
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she described him at 5'11", weighing less than 145 pounds. he was wearing a black tank top at the time and there is evidence a bullet went through the tank top. >> did you find evidence of a gunshot hole through jordan davis' black tank top, state's 172? >> yes, i did. >> can you please show the jurors on which side of the t-shirt you found evidence of a gunshot wound? >> over this being the front and this being the back, on the right side. >> for the record, judge, the front of the black t-shirt is facing the jurors as dr. simons testifies. can you please turn this table to show the jurors that gunshot hole? can you please point it out for them? >> let the record reflect she has angled it to the right side and pointing for the jurors. >> dr. simons, is it common for
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fire and rescue to have to cut clothing off of gunshot victims? >> yes. >> tell the jury why. >> in an emergent situation, they are thinking about saving the life and not thinking about preserving evidence because they are presuming they are going to save the life and the evidence will take care of itself. so they do what they need to do to access the body. >> on many of these items of clothing, did you see evidence these items had been cut off by fire and rescue? >> yes, they have been. >> if we could have state's exhibit 173. doctor, if you need to refer to the photograph or your notes, was there an olive t-shirt collected from jordan davis? >> yes, there was. >> we're going to try to have them ready in a row, judge, with your permission, have them ready to go. >> sure.
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>> i'll need 174 next, please. doctor, does this t-shirt, state's 173, show evidence of blood from jordan davis? >> yes, it does. >> can you show the jurors where the blood is? >> the blood is on the right side and also on the back. some blood on the left side and coming around to the front. >> is there evidence that fire and rescue cut through this piece of clothing as well? >> yes. that has been reapproximated before being sewn back together. >> is there a gunshot hole in
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the same general vicinity as there was for the black tank top underneath this? >> yes, there is, on the right side. >> can you turn that exhibit and show that to the jury as well. >> can we pull out state's exhibit 175, the boxers? doctor, was there a pair of fruit of the loom boxers that were taken from mr. davis' tray when his body came into your medical examiner's office? >> yes, there was.
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>> doctor, these displays are tli dimensional, is that correct? >> yes, they are. >> the clothing has been packaged where all four sides of the clothing can be seen, is that correct? >> that is correct. >> in a few minutes, we'll be asking you questions about gunshot wounds basically to the genital area or between the legs of mr. davis. did you examine these boxer shorts to see if there was evidence of gunshot in that area? >> yes, i did. >> did you find any evidence of gunshots? >> yes, i did. >> can you show the jurors where you found them? >> apparently, the jury is looking at the front. i'm going to turn this aren't and you can see the back or what we call the posterior aspect. at the back on the seat is a hole.
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>> thank you, ma'am. state's exhibit 174, a black jacket, please. dr. simons, was this black jacket brought in on the body of jordan davis? >> yes, it was. >> were you able to detect evidence of a gunshot hole in this black jacket? >> yes, i was. >> can you show the jurors where you found evidence of that? >> yes. you are looking at the front and again the hole is on the right side. if you look for a small while hole over on the right.
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>> dr., let me ask you to assume the following facts that young jordan davis was wearing the black tank top with the olive t-shirt on top of that with the black jacket on top of that. based on your autopsy and the finding of the gun shot wound to his right side, do those bullet holes in these three items of clothing match up and are they consistent with him having been shot through the right side while wearing this clothing? >> yes, that is correct. >> we are going to step away and bring in paul callan and joey jackson. really graphic testimony. we saw some very graphic evidence displayed in court. torre dunnan is also covering this trial live. are jordan davis' parents in the room? >> his family has been in the room throughout this entire
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trial. according to people we have from cnn inside the courtroom, they are in there right now and visibly shaken from all this. right before the medical examiner went on the stand, the judge said to the entire courtroom. they are going to be showing some graphic items. some of the clothing, if you want, you can leave the courtroom. he advised them that that would be happening. most people decided to stay in for this part of it. >> to you, paul, the medical examiner testified that the victim in this case, jordan davis, was shot in the groin and also in the chest. i guess that makes sense since the defendant in in case, michael done, fired the gun into the side of the car. >> yes. this kind of testimony is always gruesome. it is -- as a matter of fact, i've never tried a murder case myself where the parents didn't leave the courtroom. usually, it is so hard to take for parents. so it is a very brave thing for them to be sitting through it.
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i'm sure they want to watch the whole trial and it is essential to prove in a murder case. you have to prove that the cause of death were the gun shot wounds and you have to put the medical examiner on. this is as gruesome as it is, it is sort of routine testimony in a murder trial. >> joey, i was sort of taken aback at how small jordan davis was, 5'11", weighed less than 140 pounds. >> sure. carol, this really humanizes him. every portion of a trial is difficult for the victim and the victim's family. the victim's family, you shi say. this is particularly very difficult. it sort of adds another dimension to this. i think another big item to poind out, carol, was the toxicology report. it is routine within ten hours of a violent incident to test for toxicology. the complete absence of any type of drug, any type of alcohol, you match that with his -- small
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in stature, it really humanizes him and it has a tremendous impact upon the jury and everybody involved in listening. >> would any of his testimony prove that the defendant knew that he had harmed the individual inside the car? >> well, no, it would not directly prove that. what it does prove is that the shots fired from his gun killed jordan. the prosecutor is going to say, hey, you fire this number of shots at an suv. you will have only one intention in mind, to kill or seriously injure the occupants. i don't think it is a stretch to say the prosecution has proven this very conclusively through the medical examiner's testimony. >> joey jackson and paul callan, appreciate your analysis as always. we'll continue to follow this trial throughout the day right here on cnn i want to thank you for
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joining me today. i'm carol costello. an exciting new show is coming up next. john berman and micayla perez's new shower "at this hour" starts right now. an all american football star reveals he is gay. is the nfl ready for its first openly gay player? >> we are learning that hillary clinton clinton has some strong opinions about monica lewinsky. you don't call someone a narcissistic loony tune because you like them. >> children watch as a giraffe is dismembered and the animal is devoured by lions. this happened to a healthy jury after at a zoo. hello, everybody. i'm john berman. >> i'm michaela pereira. those and more at this hour. the city of atlanta says, this will not happen to us again. you remember this, snow, sleet and rain. they are in the forecast again