jeb bush does run. you heard the early hints of a strategy for running against hillary clinton. if rubio gets in the race he would likely have an edge with two critical groups, first latinos. he gave a separate interview in spanish. and second, he would also have a certain edge with voters in his home state of florida. the mother of all of those presidential battle grounds, florida. president obama carried that state twice. as we dive deeper and deeper into the 2016 campaign we are going to invite all of the major presidential contenders, the possible contenders out there to join us for an in-depth interview in the weeks and months ahead. that's it for me. thanks very much for watching. "cross fire" starts right now. tonight on "crossfire" does

religious freedom mean freedom to discriminate against gays? arizona's legislature took its stand. >> all of the pillars of society as we know it today are under attack. >> should the governor sign the controversial bill or veto it? >> i will do the right thing. >> on the left van jones. on the right newt gingrich. in the cross fire, granderson who is against the bill and ken kucuccinelli who is for it. is arizona trying to protect religious freedom or legalize discriminati discrimination? tonight on "crossfire". >> i'm newt gingrich on the right. >> i'm van jones on the left. tonight the nfl, american

airlines, marriott and even mitt romney and john mccain all agree with me. arizona governor jan brewer needs to veto this so-called religious freedom bill that would actually legalize discrimination against gays and lesbians. she has until saturday to make her decision. governor, one of the greatest achievements we ever had in america is simply this. we got rid of six words. those six words, we don't serve your kind here. now, we take it for granted today but it took a civil war and the civil rights movement, a century of struggle to get rid of those six words. and now you have some folks in your state that want to take those six words, they want to wrap them in religious garb and reinscribe them in law and ram them back into american society. no way, governor. you have to veto this bill. i hope she does. >> i think she will veto the

bill. if you look at the total array of political pressure it tells you when political correctness refuses to have a serious conversation. the fact is there are very real issues coming down the road about the power of the government to coerce people. some of the cases are pathetic. a photographer who says i'm happy to take pictures of gays of lesbians but i don't want to do it for a wedding. a baker says i'm happy to bake cakes. they don't want to make it for weddings. now you have the full power. piling on the political correctness. >> i'm looking forward to it and i think about my uncles who sat in at individual businesses trying to be served hamburgers. in the crossfire granderson and

virginia's former attorney general, ken cuccinelli. i mentioned my uncle, this is big for america. we are trying to figure out this balancing point here. you thought about this a lot. help me understand if somebody is sincere in their religious believes what is the difference between them putting up a signt that says no gays allowed versus no blacks allowed? >> because you do get to test that. and we have had religious freedom restoration act at the federal level for over 20 years. we have had it in the states since 1996 when the supreme court said it didn't cover the states. arizona has had this law on the books for 15 years. none of the parade of horribles, most of what you said is utterly inaccurate. >> we didn't have a civil rights movement? >> i'm talking about arizona.

in your characterization, the last 15 years they have had a law in place that would supposedly allow what you described. what has happened? one thing is happening in that part of the country. newt gingrich uses the baker and photographer, those are real world examples. those folks have the opportunity, the plaintiffs who assaulted legally these people who just want to be safe in their religious practice. you're okay with violating people's faith? >> here is my question to you. what is the difference between a business owner saying no blacks are allowed here versus no gays are allowed here. >> show me a religion that says that. >> you want to get in? >> i'm going to do it anyway. what are you talking about? that is just straight up plain

nothing but discrimination. any other way with phrasing it. >> let's just be real clear. this isn't about religion. this is about the christian faith. no one is saying -- this is about -- >> that is a great point. >> let me finish. >> reference used by muslims to protect themselves. >> allow me to finish. once you decided this is being driven by the christian faith. i'm going where in the bible does jesus say no to people? he is always bringing people in. so are you really using this as religious faith? are you wrapping your home --

homophobia. >> just because you disagree with me doesn't mean i'm a homophobe. >> we know your history. you have made several remarks over the years that i classify as homophobic. i would say you personally are. based upon your series of comments you have made -- >> wait a second. i just want to comment for a second because i'm fascinated by your total mischaracterization of islam. in iran you can be executed. i want to -- >> i was talking about christian faith. >> let me ask you something.

you get to decide whether to apply the power of the state or whether this person is genuinely religiously motivated. let me give you an example in the real world. should a catholic priest be coerced into performing a gay marriage? >> is that what you are asking me? >> yeah. >> no. >> why not? it is an act of discrimination. >> he is practicing his faith. to me that is different when you are talking about a church and someone representing that versus a public business that is utilizing taxpayer dollars to help sustain itself. >> should massachusetts, washington, d.c. and illinois have outlawed catholic adoption services? >> that is not what is happening. >> that is what happened.

>>. >> they said if you are taking state money you have to play by state rules. that is what they are saying. >> i want those rules to be the rules -- >> despite the fact that they under cut a fundamental part of the country. >> religion was to not define the constitution. constitution is what defines space for religion. so if your religion is going against the constitution, it's not the other way around, it is not going the constitution doesn't fit my religion. the constitution and you have to -- we all agree to operate under the guidance of the constitution which allows us to have religious freedom. >> understand we're not talking about a constitutional issue. let's be really clear about that. >> we're not? >> we're not. in 1990 the u.s. supreme court said that native american s in religious ritual use paoty were

not exempt from the drug laws. that's why newt gingrich and others passed the religious freedom restoration act. this doesn't reach the level of constitutional. it is a fundamental principle. >> i have a couple of things i want to point outt that you guys said that you might like. >> a long shot. >> we are trying to balance -- we are all friends here. we are trying to balance some important issues in the country. my right to have a religion and your right to have me not impose my religion on you. and you have some concerns. let me tell you i have concerns, too. that is the run away nature of this. once you open up this exception. a lot of people don't explain this well. i want you to hear anderson cooper. >> if i am a catholic loan officer, say, in a bank and i don't like the idea of loaning

money to a divorced woman, under your law i could refuse to do business with an unwed mother or divorced woman, correct? >> i don't know where you are getting your hypotheticals from, sir. >> now, here is the deal. you ask us about -- >> one of my comments goes to this. >> i think an easier way for people to think about a distinction that is appropriate is in public accommodations which was your example. i walk into a restaurant, shouldn't matter whether i am red, white, black, brown, purpleal. public accommodation serve everybody that walks in. with the baker and photographer those are private engagements. >> this law is much broader than that. are you concerned about this law? >> let's just see if we can reach an area of agreement. can we at least agree that those two are different?

i would agree that if you open your doors to do business that is a perfectly legitimate requirement that you have to serve whoever comes in versus if you have a private engagement, one-on-one, for instance to be a photographer at a wedding. >> we are going to be back. this administration's attacks on religious freedom are part of a larger pattern. when we come back i'll show you something unbelievable that happened today. america's top law enforcement official told the state's top law enforcement officials it is okay to disregard a law you don't like. [ male announcer ] whether it takes 200,000 parts,

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welcome back. in the crossfire lz granderson and ken cuccinelli. you are not going to believe what attorney general is encouraging state attorney generals to do. he is telling the nation's top law enforcement officers they can pick which laws they will and will not enforce. he argues they can disregard laws banning same-sex marriage. >> this is the essential duty to which all of us have been sworn, not just to win cases but to see that justice is done. >> that is a fundamental misunderstanding of his job.

the argrogance of a single persn under mines the entire system of constitutional law. it is the duty of the attorney general to uphold the law, not judge the law. in that context, how would you feel if an attorney general who just heard that went back home, happened to be a racist, and said this is terrific. the attorney generals said i shouldn't enforce laws i don't like. i will no longer enforce any antidiscrimination law. >> i don't think that is what eric holder was saying and neither do you. what we both know to be true is that this has been decided by the supreme court. and what is happening in our own country right now, the defense of marriage act. so we are talking about -- >> it matters way beyond that. >> that is a federal act.

>> my point is that the law has been decided. and what he is acknowledging and what the supreme court has said is that this is not constitutional. so any state law that doesn't jive with the constitution, once again, that is the head law. not religious law and not just state law. the state laws have to be consistent with the constitution. the defense of marriage act has been proven not to be consistent with the constitution. any state version of the defense of marriage act is null and void. >> the marriage amendments are quite different from doma. the supreme court explicitly didn't decide it at the same time. can we talk about attorney holder's role? for the first year and a half in his tenure he defended doma. that tells me as a lawyer he believed there was some basis, rational basis to defend the law, to ethicily go into court and do it. he obviously believed that he

did. then when the flip happened -- he backed out of the defense of doma, presumably with the request of the president who, mind you, supported same-sex marriage when running for president. i'm not quite sure where it became obviously unconstitutional. as an attorney general, not merely a lawyer, he somehow felt that there was no basis all of a sudden to defend that which he had a basis. >> i'm going to shock you. we actually agree on something. you shocked us last time. i'm going to shock you this time. you are in the same situation that the attorney general is talking about. there was a law that you couldn't defend but you also made sure someone else did. i think that is the right answer.

>> and that is the way -- his problem compared to mine is he had defended it. he demonstrated that he believed there was a basis to defend. let me tell you where we are going. it now has happened in virginia. we now for the first time in my understanding in american history had an ag who didn't just back out of defending a law but then turned on his client and attacked it without allowing for someone else to come in and defend it. that's a very serious abigation of the rules. >> i think we are going through a very, very tough transitional period. i think in the minds of a lot of people in the country these are now jim crow laws and i think people are having a difficult time figuring out how and when to defend. i want to get back to the law on the books right now. >> you guys are deflating everything down -- >> we are deflating down to equality of the law and how to

get there. we are lucky to have you here. i want you to respond to somebody else. rush limbaugh is against me on this. i want you to hear from >> the governor of arizona is being bullied by the hoom sexual lobby in arizona and elsewhere. she's being bullied by the nationwide drive by media, being bullied by certain elements of corporate america income order to advance the gay agenda. >> now, listen, i want you to respond to that. do you think that jan brewer is being bullied? jeff flake who is against marriage -- new york is from her state is against marriage equality, against domestic partnerships, against hate crime legislation, 100% ratings from the family research council is against this law. mccain is against this law. are they bullying jan brewer. >> no, but a lot of people are. this is the political correctness stampede. once they, whoever they are that

control much of the voice and by that i don't mean actual control, i mean influence control and they start rolling the steam roller and it's cool to go that way, well then, you know, katie bar the door. that's what's bearing down on jan brewer. i think newt gingrich is probably right with respect to what she will do. >> you think she should sign this bill into law. >>. >> you would sign the bill into law. >> yes. >> an amendment to a law that's been on the books for 15 years? >> yes. >> now we've seen courts rule on laws that deny people religious freedom. >> this whole thing by holder is troubling and a very dangerous precedent. the people of california voted in a referendum in defense of marriage but millions of people. the attorney general of california said he would not defend his clients' vote. the supreme court then ruled that no one else had standing to defend it. now, that means if you exactly

somebody somebody to be your lawyer which what the attorney general of a state is, they have a deep obligation to enforce the law. if you're the attorney general of the united states, if you think a law is bad, you can go to the congress with the president to change it. this is a fundamental threat. i know you think this is all hyperbolly. this is a fundamental threat to our constitution. >> i have had my issues with attorney general eric holder. i have. >> i'd like to talk about the process outside of just gay marriage. you know? >> listen, this it was started because of marriage equality. so i mean -- to remove. >> we've got to go to commercial. >> to remove the example of marriage equality to make the argument when the whole thing was started by marriage equality is disingenuous. >> stay here. we're going to keep fighting after this break. i want you at home to weigh in on today's question. we've been talking about this. if you were the governor of arizona, would you sign or veto this bill. i want you to tweet sip or veto

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now it's time for my outrage of the day. you know, i wish dick cheney would be like his former boss and just go paint pictures some place. but no, last night he embarrassed himself by claiming

that president obama would "much rather spend money on food stamps than he would on a strong military or support for our troops." no. for every dime we spend on food stamps we still spend about $1 on the military. personally, i would rather have my tax dollars go to hungry kids and not halliburton. but under obama, we still spend more on our military than china, russia, the british, japan, france, saudi arabia, india, germany, italy and brazil combined. that sounds like a pretty strong military under obama to me. >> i'm constantly outraged by the stunning incompetent and dishonesty of some government bureaucrats. in los angeles, veterans affairs employees decided to do something about the backlog of requests for medical exams some dating backing to 2001. that would be outrageous by itself. but according to the daily caller, the solution these bureaucrats came up with was to simply delete people's files from their computers.

poof. the backlog magically disappeared. so did the veterans so did any semblance of integrity and frankly, some of those bureaucrats ought to go to jail for what they did. >> that is pretty outrageous. anyway, i have no comment. that's horrible. let's check on our fire back results. if you were the governor of arizona, would you sign the law or veto it. right now 12% of you say sign, 88% say vote toe. what do you think about those results. >> it's a good thing i'm here. the most intolerant portion of our society today is the left. you're seeing that intolerance steam roller aimed at jan brewer. she's got a hard decision to make this week. the right thing to do is defend religious freedom and sign the bill. >> listen, i want to thank both of you. we're out of time. i want to thank you ken cuccinelli. from the left, i'm van jones. please veto it. >> from the right it, i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire."

"erin burnett outfront" starts "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> next, the interview ha has a lot of people talking. ted nugent says he's a changed man. even his own brother doesn't believe him. plus the president says the rich are getting richer. is it it the government's problem? and rush limbaugh blames the "the homosexual lobby for bulling the arizona governor on a controversial bill. for real? let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett. ted nugent says he's a changed man. at least that's what he told me last night in an interview that got a lot of people talking. i confronted him about calling president obama a