>> do you have batteries for billy big mouth? i'll pay cash. can't put a price on comedy. >> there are those times when it's undeniably good to have a big mouth on the ridiculist. that's it for us. erin burnett "outfront" starts now. next, republicans and their war on the 1%. one congressman wants to close a tax loophole and wall street is fighting back. plus, spike lee fired up, the film director unleashing a seven minute rant about race and real estate. the man who sparked the tirade. breaking news out of arizona. the government expected to make a major announcement about the controversial bill that critics call anti-gay. let's go "outfront." breaking news. much anticipated announcement from the arizona governor's

office tonight. governor jan brewer will speak in this hour about the controversial religious freedom bill as it's called that's been sitting on her desk. it would allow businesses to refuse service to gays in the name of god. we've been following that story from phoenix. miguel, what's the reaction from people you're talking to tonight? >> reporter: the reaction is that the governor has now decided to make a statement in 45 minutes, 7:45 eastern time governor brewer will in her office make a statement regarding sb 1062. we have every expectation, as we have for a couple of days now, that she will veto that bill. the pressure from not only gay and lesbian rights groups here and the crowds that have gathered out here every single night have been enormous. the business community across the board, around the country has been lobbying this governor to veto this bill. the nfl, major league baseball,

every entity out there has been telling this governor to veto this bill. i can tell from the protesters tonight were planning a silent protest outside this capital. now they are planning a celebration with thank you jan brewer signs that they are making right now hurriedly because this veto is coming a little sooner than anyone expected. >> all right. miguel, thank you very much. there's only so long she could hold out. i know at first she said she was considering it and now we think we'll get that veto. obviously it will be significant news later this hour. we'll be checking back in with miguel on that as soon as the governor speaks. meanwhile, our other top story tonight, the gop taking on wall street. republicans, yes, you heard me, republicans want to close one of the most crazy tax loopholes in america. part of a major tax code overhaul. dave camp says he will close a loophole that has netted the top americans billions and billions and billions of dollars. so who has benefited? i want to show you a few of the individuals.

people like steven schwartzman. he's worth $7.7 billion. henry kravitz, $4.7 billion. and john doerr. he's worth $2.9 billion. you probably never heard of any of those three guys. but they're important. according to the joint committee on taxation, they pay many billions of dollars over the next decade if that carried interest loophole were closed. at a time when every dollar counts, you'd think there would be a celebration on capitol hill to close a loophole like this. it only affects a few at the very top. republicans and democrats have been afraid of these businesses and their lobbyists. here's john boehner today. >> changes to -- >> blah, blah, blah, blah. listen, there's a conversation that needs to be had. this is the beginning of the conversation. >> this isn't bla, bla, bla. by the way, the conversation on

this has been going on for many years. speaker boehner knows. the president, by the way, is just as guilty of caving to lobbyist pressure. he promised to close a loophole back in 2007. yes, it is 2014. it allows them to pay half the taxes they would have otherwise. basically, they now get to pay a tax rate of 20%. their regular income tax rate would tap out at 35% under camp's plan. there are a lot of loopholes that makes sense. this one has a few supporters but not many. i want to explain to you why. when you are one of those three men, a partner in a private equity firm, you get a cut of the profits you make from investing other people's money. usually you get 20% of the profits you make. so basically it works like this. if i invest money with one of them, they get to keep a cut of the profits if my investment goes up in value. so now it's my money put at risk so i pay the lower capital gains rate, which is 20%. in this case the guys that manage my money get to take the cut of the profits and also get it taxed at 20%.

that's pretty incredible because their cut of the profits they make on investing is a huge part of the money they earn. here's the bottom line. they pay the lower rate provided to americans to encourage people to take risk, except it is not their money and is not their risk. they get to pay 20% on the equivalent of their wages. last i checked everyone else's taxes are taxed at a normal income tax rate. joining me now is michael far. can you just explain the significance of this loophole? we're talking real money, right? >> we're talking real money, erin. we're talking about a lot of money. i mean, this would basically double the tax that venture capitalists and private equity investors have to pay every year. you've been right on this all along. it's inconsistent with current tax policy. so, yeah, i mean, these guys have gotten a big break. i don't blame them. i wish i could have figured out how to get that break. it's terrific. but now the republicans are

saying we should change that law, and look at this, we've got republicans saying, we're going to raise taxes on the rich in this area and lower the overall rate, which makes much more economic sense. >> what i'm curious about though is why it has taken so long. the president keeps putting it in his budget but he's always willing to negotiate this out. this is a loophole. there's not very many people who benefit from it. they are incredibly wealthy. a, it would bring in a lot of money. b, it seems that they and their lobbyists are so powerful that they don't ever get it closed. i mean, how is that? are they that powerful? >> yes. you know, money talks and certainly money talks on wall street, but money's rarely heard as loudly as it is in washington. all of these folks are facing more and more expensive elections and this small cadre of very wealthy investors -- >> these guys are donors you're telling me. >> big donors. big donors and they're paying their lobbyists a lot of money. it's a two edged sword and it

has everybody running scared. >> do you think it will happen this time? you heard john boehner, blah, blah, blah. he's very familiar with this loophole. he knows this conversation has been going on for, well, years. >> what i'm hearing from my friend greg belliere at potomac research is that they're going to try, the republicans don't want to touch much of this a minute before they have to and certainly not before the mid-term election so i think something could happen but i think it's going to take a while. and i think they're going to delay it. once they can kind of get out of the political near term cross hairs then, yeah, i think it has a shot at getting through. >> pretty incredible though. i guess the bottom line is how did they pull this racket off? i know i'm editorializing here. to be paid a low tax rate on the risk that other people are taking, that's incredible. >> it's incredible, it's inconsistent. it doesn't make sense. erin, you've been right about this. you've been talking about it.

you said, look, this is an inconsistency in tax policy, it's not fair, it's a loophole. i think it's really encouraging though because you have the right wing, the republicans saying we're going to do something about it, we're going to close a tax loophole and we'll raise taxes on very rich people because we do have a significant deficit and we're printing money and it's time to act responsibly. i applaud them. >> michael far, we appreciate that. still to come, we're watching arizona where the governor is expected to make a major announcement at this hour about the religious freedom bill that we've been talking about. we'll be there live. paula deen with a significant new investment. an announcement to make. is it a sign that america has forgiven her from using the "n" word. what prompted spike lee to go on this profanity filled rant? >> get the [ bleep ] out of here. no, i can't do that. get the [ bleep ] out of here. i can't do that.

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gentrification of america. this has been happening all over. some of this ones that have had the most of it -- san francisco, boston, atlanta, new york but it's also been controversial. you say, why are you talking about that now? there is a reason we're talking about this right now. because last night actor and director spike lee went off. that's a fair description. about the "great influx of white people" when he was asked this question by my next guest. >> you mentioned gentrification with some slightly negative connotations. i wonder if you've ever looked at it on the other side which is if your family was still in that $40,000 home that's worth 3.5 to $4 million. >> let me just kill you right now. >> okay. go for it. >> [ bleep ] article in "the new york times" saying gentrification. i don't believe that. >> that was just the very beginning for spike lee.

>> the [ bleep ] christopher columbus syndrome. you can't discover this. we're here. [ applause ] >> there's a lot more back and forth that you'll here. look, you asked a controversial question but an interesting point, hey. you stay in the neighborhood and other people move in, whatever their color may be, property values go up, all of a sudden your house is more value. he just goes off. were you shocked? >> i was a little surprised by the magnitude of his going off. i figured he would not be positive about that issue. >> all right. so obviously he wasn't personally going after you. he was being a little bit funny in i'm going to kill you now.

this rant continued. let me give the viewers that and play a little bit more of it. >> my father is a great jazz musician and he bought a [ bleep ] house in 1968. some people moved in and called the cops on my father. he wasn't even playing an electric bass. it was acoustic. we [ bleep ] in 196 [ bleep ] 8 and now you call the cops in 2013. get the [ bleep ] out of here. >> that's a pretty incredible anecdote. it does speak to the racism that he's referring to. do you agree with that point? >> yes. >> you were raised in the same neighborhood. >> exactly. i agree with all of his points. i want to expand the dialogue. there is a positive side. everything he said i'm in agreement with. i've experienced most of it. i've lived in brooklyn, raised

there, lived there longer than he has. i understood exactly what he was saying. the positive side of it. this is the first time in america that blacks have been open to that kind of wealth creation. i mean, he bought a house for million, 4 million, 5 million, that's a traditional route to, you know, being wealthy in america. we've never had that opportunity and now many thousands, tens of thousands of us in the last four years you have to go to 2014 before we're now able to participate in that level of wealth creation? that's a positive thing. let's talk about that, too. let's expand the dialogue. >> that's pretty incredible. when you say you've experienced what he has, you grew up and you were black and now have you felt discrimination because white people move in and all of a sudden they look at you like what are you doing in this neighborhood? they're afraid of you? >> i've had the people who let their dogs poop on my sidewalk and they're white. when i speak to them about it, they look at me strange.

i'm like, are you kidding me? >> like they don't think you live there? >> like they don't think anybody lives there. some of my neighbors have tracked people home and tossed the feces on their step. hey, you left that on my sidewalk. i thought you forgot it. we've had those kind of experiences. let me counterbalance it. by and large, wonderful new neighbors. very happy to have them. great neighbors. great friends. participating in the community. so it's been mostly a positive experience, but certainly we've hd the negative ones from the new ones. they come in and start telling us what to do as if we don't know. that's just -- but it's about education. it's about educating them, it's not about backing off and complaining. >> i mean, that's -- it's horrible to hear. it's incredible. i'm glad you're sharing it. it does happen is what you're saying. >> absolutely. >> what i'm also curious about. let's talk about spike lee, interesting case in point. guy is one of the most successful people in the country. he's worth an incredible amount of money. he's selling a town house for $32 million. he could move into a bad neighborhood and bring

everybody's real estate values up in one fell swoop. >> he is a causative factor. if he moved into a swamp the prices would go up next door immediately. i mean, a bad movie makes $40 million, $50 million. maybe he doesn't have the full perspective of a family who has worked 30, 40 years, paying taxes, now that 3, 4, 5 million to them, that's a tremendous change. he spoke about his grandmother putting him through moorehouse. some of these families when they move south and down size, what do they do with the money? put their children through college or grad school. the money doesn't evaporate or disappear. but we've never been able to do that. >> real estate has always been in america -- there's been bubbles and bust, but it has always been for regular americans the only key to wealth creation. the only one. >> a pillar to wealth in america and now we can participate on that level, too. >> his issue seems to be partially on race. here's a script he wrote in 1989.

let me just play that for the movie "do the right thing." >> five brown stones in my neighborhood on my side of the street. >> yo, what you in a black neighborhood for? >> if you don't have gentrification, you end up with neighborhoods that are all one race which i think some people might think that's a good thing. that's the implication there. >> some people are more comfortable like that but, you know, first off, it's inevitable. it's going to happen. it's not just a black thing. i lived in boston for 15 years, in an irish neighborhood for four years where the houses went up five, six times in value. which of those irish children are able to go back up now that the values have gone up five, six, seven times in three years. it's not just a black thing. it's an urban thing. it's part of a city's evolution. what do we do, stand around and complain about it or let's be thankful for an opportunity to participate at this level.

>> d.k., thank you very much. really interesting points. >> thank you, erin. paula deen resurrecting her fallen empire. he's opening her first restaurant since admitting to using the "n" word. her kitchen restaurant will open this summer in pigeon forge, tennessee. outfront tonight is the mayor of pigeon force. paula deen and pigeon forge, why? >> i think it fits. we're excited about what they're bringing to our town. any time that we can add to our product mix to give something to our loyal visitors who come back here year in and year out and also to get in front of new people, we're excited about it. >> now your town is a tourist destination as you said, 10 million tourists a year. that's a big number. are you worried that this restaurant could bring negative attention as well? i'm sure a lot of her fans are coming but obviously she's now on the national stage as well

for her use of the "n" word. >> right. it's a private development. those private folks obviously with the island, developers of the island and paula deen's folks, they got together and decided that they through the due diligence process thought they could make a business go of it in pidgeon forge. we are excited about it. we think she has a strong brand and think our visitors will love it. >> how would you describe the local opinion of paula deen? i know you're saying, look, it's investors putting this money in. do people see her as a victim, as someone who deserves a second chance. what's the perception? small town, about 6,000 people, right? what do they think? >> that's a great question. i don't have the answer to that question. we got the press release this morning. just following social media, a lot of folks are excited. i haven't gotten a lot of negative feedback and don't expect it. i know there's folks that have their different opinions. we're just excited about growing our tourism market. >> and let me just be honest, we look at the demographics of your town.

it is a pretty stark divide. only about 1% of pidgeon forge is african-american. do you think that's part of why they chose that town? >> no, i don't think so. i don't think so at all because we host 10 million visitors every year and those visitors are from every walk of life. we take every make and model in pidgeon forge. we don't discriminate. our doors are open. we're a family destination and that's what we're going to focus on with any development that comes in. our doors are wide open to whoever to build memories with their families. >> mayor, thank you so much for taking the time. >> thank you. in addition to that new restaurant, paula deen also addresses the scandal in an exclusive interview in this week's edition of "people" magazine. you can get that on news stands on friday. still to come, arizona governor jan brewer is minutes away for making an announcement on a bill critics call anty gay. chris christie is talking now about the scandal that's

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welcome back to the second half of "out front." more than ten hours of justin bieber footage, wow, taken shortly after his arrest in miami has been arrested. we've viewed all ten hours. thank goodness i'm joking.

this shows him taking a sobriety test at the police station. he seems a bit stumably at times but it's hard to tell if he's doing it on purpose. anyway, another shift shows him being frisked. they stopped him for dui and street racing. a toxicology report shows traces of marijuana and xanax. and now to one man who thank god is more famous than justin bieber. speaking about the pope. pope francis is so loved. the kid dressed up at him. anyway, this is a 19-month-old boy in st. peter's square today. he was in head to tow pope garb. his whole life he'll be sad he cried at that moment. the boy's grandmother reportedly made the costume. it was a gesture of love toward the holy father. the pope appreciated -- oh, gosh. i like the pictures. all right. new jersey governor chris christie is answering questions speaking live on a radio program at this hour about the bridge scandal.

he appeared in a radio segment called ask the governor. >> do you believe that you have the political capital, the support of the public, the will of the people to be able to advance a second term agenda? >> sure. got 61% of the vote in november. >> those poll numbers have come down considerably though. >> listen, eric, the poll numbers are still better than most governors in the region and most governors across the country. >> interesting comment in light of his quip earlier that pollsters are always wrong, just like weather men, he said. christie also noted that nobody asked him about the scandal which is the same as his last town hall. that's true. he did note that both were held in christie friendly areas of the state. >> i'm in my second term now. according to our constitution, you know, that means i can't run for governor again. i could tell you something,

that's really good news for you. it's really good news for you, and here's why. i don't have to worry about politics anymore, everybody. this is it. i'm on the back nine and when you're on the back nine and you don't have to worry about playing another front nine, your only obligation is to tell people the truth. >> "outfront" today, ellis henniquen and steve adabado, what's your reaction? what does he mean, back nine? you could read that a couple of ways. this guy was running for president. is he now not running for president? >> i know him pretty well so i know he's not referring to the back nine of golf but i'll say this. the governor says he's not on the back nine or he's on the back nine, but here's the thing. it is about politics because the governor has things that he has to do, like balance the budget. the governor needs the democrats who control both houses of the legislature.

he needs the popular support to get what he has to do to get done. the bottom line is i don't think the governor is as weakened as many people say. but politic also always be part of your life as a politician, whether your first or second term. >> what do you read into that? >> it's not the back nine, it's a sand trap. >> he's very savvy. he loves playing this game. >> his ball is in the water. he's neck deep in algae. the back nine, he'd be lucky to be on the back nine. >> he's got more than 50%. >> listen, first of all, the notion that he has to call back poll numbers from november, hello? governor, some stuff has happened since november in the state of new jersey. this guy, he's the walking wounded. we don't know he's dead yet but it's a very different day. >> there has been -- you have to admit, ellis, absolutely no proof that he did anything wrong in this case. if that is true doesn't this just roll off after a while? >> drip, drip, drip, drip. maybe. >> granted, the governor is in trouble. >> yes. >> he's gone from 70% approval

to 50%. >> pretty much. >> drip, drip, drip, where's the president? my point is this, you make it sound like the president should quit because his approval ratings are in the low 40s. it happens in politics. >> here's the problem. he sounded perfectly nice talking there. we hear him so differently now. all the things we used to like about chris christie make him sound like a jerk. he's not strong, he's pushy. bipartisanship seems phony. all the good things that people like have turned against him. >> the question is is that only to people who didn't like him before? >> all those middle people are dumping him. >> he's changing his tone because the -- >> trouble. >> listen, he has a problem. the problem is there. >> thank you. >> the investigations are going on and he needs the democrats to move forward and the democrats are trying to kill him and i understand why. so you're saying he has a nicer tone. he's humbler with people. how dare he do that! what do you want him to do? do you want him to be in people's faces? >> no, no, i much prefer the nicer version. it seems phony.

the thing that was so good about him is you believed he was real. now nobody believes he's real. >> but, again, my question is is it just the people who didn't like him? this is the guy we always wanted you to see. >> listen, he started out with huge support, there's no denying it. he goes on, on, on, on. >> a lot of that was hurricane sandy. >> his approval ratings are still way above the president, though. >> listen, it is bad. let's be clear. 70 to 50. the president is a lot lower. i'm going to say this about the governor, the governor is going to be -- >> i love the game of relativity here. >> not as bad as this other bum. >> listen, you called the president a bum, not me. but here's the thing. i'm saying his biggest challenge, we agree, that's a problem, the governor is it

going to have to with his people get people back into their homes with hurricane sandy because that is the thing that put him in a strong position politically. that's the thing he has to get done. >> let me play something else. he did address this issue of what his staff knew. here's the governor tonight. >> do you think she ordered those lane closures on her own. do you think she acted on her own? >> i have no idea, eric. i'm no longer going to speculate. that's why we're in the midst of an internal investigation. when we have developed all of the facts that need to be developed and reviewed all the documents, maybe i'll have a better view of what went on. >> it's a perfectly reasonable delay tactic. >> a completely honest answer. >> steve, it's exactly the reason that people liked him, he knew stuff. he was tough. he was in there. >> respectfully, the united states attorney, paul fishman in new jersey is investigating this case. >> and other people. >> and the state legislature run

by democrats, both houses, are disproportionately democrats controlling the committee are investigating. they're going to try to get to the truth. he gets asked, what do you think about bridgette kelly. was she telling the truth? forget about the investigations, i'll tell you what happened. that's ridiculous! >> no matter what he does, we saw him in washington last weekend like hiding and running. he was like a member of the witness protection program instead of a republican governor's association. i don't want him to look like an extra from american hustle ii and that's how he's coming off. >> let me give a final question. there's been a report on this that he's losing big donors on wall street. totally countered by the numbers out of the republican fwofr governor's association. who's right? that rga number coming in or what charlie is reporting? is he losing wall street support? >> listen, i don't know but 6 million coming into the rga is

big. the bigger problem for the governor is some of those republicans running for governor who are hiding from him, if they don't start taking pictures with him over time, that's going to be the bigger embarrassment. >> we'll leave it there. thank you for a heated discussion. >> we're just getting started. >> we're minutes away from the arizona governor. she'll be making a statement about the controversial bill. it has the entire country talking. we'll bring it back to you live. very important moment for jan brewer. we'll see what happens when a weather man meets a spider. and [ female announcer ] new fiber one protein cereal. ♪ yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! ♪ we are one, under the sun ♪ under the sun... [ female announcer ] fiber and protein. together as one. introducing new fiber one protein cereal. [ female announcer ] fiber and protein. together as one. knows her way can run in high heels. must be a supermodel, right? you don't know "aarp". because aarp is making finding the career you love, no matter what your age, a real possibility.

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breaking news. we're just moments away what could be a decision on arizona's controversial religious freedom bill. governor of arizona, jan brewer. you can see that door opening and closing. she's going to be coming out in any moment coming up to the podium and addressing the media directly. not just signing a veto but coming out and actually doing it to the cameras and speaking to the press. she has been under incredible pressure to veto the bill from even people like the nfl which said you better veto it. they're about to have a super bowl there. it will allow businesses to refuse services to gays based on their religious beliefs. earlier today brewer met with people on both sides of the

debate including businesses and state senators, who at one time had supported the bill. they've since though buckled to the pressure. miguel marquez is out front. what do you expect brewer to say as we're watching the room where she'll come out, in a very unusual case, not do something behind closed doors but have to address really the nation. >> reporter: well, we suspected she would. we know she's unhappy about a lot of things that have been said about arizona in the debate and she wants to say some things about what she feels is arizona. this is not the first time she and her governorship has been through this controversy. the crowd which is busily trying to watch and listen to what's happening expects a veto. they expect it so much, they quickly produced signs saying, thank you, governor brewer. this was supposed to be a silent call tonight. i'm actually going to take this call which i don't usually do on television but it's from our producer who's upstairs and she's holding the cell phone to

the governor's podium and just in case our signal goes down i want to be able to hear what the governor says so i'm just listening at this point. a lot of anticipation here. this crowd grew from 20 to 30 people in the last hour half. well, it's probably 70, to 80 people and perhaps 100. they're still streaming in. this is like wildfire through phoenix, arizona, and certainly throughout the state people are excited to hear what the governor says. they expect it as a veto. everything we know is that it will be a veto, erin. >> miguel, let me ask you. miguel has to listen to me and listen to his producer and listen in one ear. you've been trying to find people who support this bill and made the case. we have one ready to come on the program but made the case that this bill does not discriminate against gays, it actually helps gays. i never understood that argument. has anyone made it to you in a way that you understand? >> reporter: what they claim is

that this would help every business, whether you're gay, straight, religious or not in order to allow them to serve who they want. the problem is is that because in arizona gays are not a protected class like race or gender, that you could run into problems where gays are denied services, particularly where gay weddings are concerned. that is something i believe the press conference is just about to start. that is one concern. one thing we heard about from legislators who supported this bill when it was voted on initially, the governor felt it was shot through the legislature too quickly, both the house and the senate. she had a lot of questions about that and how that happened right now. and i'm not sure if you guys are able to see what is happening in the governor's office. >> i'm looking at the door. >> it sounds like it's getting ready to start. as of now it looks like security has come through but not the governor. she will be coming through that door and going to the podium a few feet away addressing the media. we'll be taking that live. miguel, i guess the question

is -- the other question i have for you from your reporting there is did they just think this would not get noticed? i found it amazing this week, not just that protesters started gathering but businesses were forced to weigh in on it. >> reporter: yeah, this has been a bill and a piece of legislation, one similar to it in several different states, and in almost every case it has failed. a lot of the concern here is over what they expect is a gay marriage initiative that will be on the ballot in 2016. from what i can tell from a lot of legislators that spoke during the house and senate discussion about this -- >> the governor is at the podium. miguel and i and all of you will listen to jan brewer. >> i'm here to announce a decision on senate bill 1062. as with every proposal that reaches my desk, i give great concern and careful evaluation and deliberate consideration and especially to senate bill 1062.

i call them like i see them despite the cheers or the boos from the crowd. i took the necessary time to make the right decision. i met or spoke with my attorneys, lawmakers and citizens supporting and opposing this legislation. as governor, i have asked questions and i have listened. i have protected religious freedoms when there is a specific and present concern that exists in our state, and i have record to prove it. my agenda is to sign into law legislation that advances arizona. when i addressed the legislature earlier this year, i made my priorities for this session abundantly clear. among them are passing a responsible budget that continues arizona's economic comeback. from ceos to entrepreneurs to business surveys, arizona ranks as one of the best states to grow or start a business.

additionally, our immediate challenge is fixing a broken child protection system. instead, this is the first policy bill to cross my desk. senate bill 1062 does not address a specific or present concern related to religious liberty in arizona. i have not heard one example in arizona where religious liberty is violated. the bill is broadly worded and can result in unintended and negative consequences. after weighing all of the arguments i have vetoed senate bill 1062 moments ago. to the supporters of this legislation, i want you to know that i understand that long held norms about marriage and family are being challenged as never before. our society is undergoing many dramatic changes, however, i sincerely believe that senate

bill 1062 has a potential to create more problems than it purports to solve. it could divide in arizona in ways we cannot even imagine and no one would ever want. religious liberty is a core american and arizona value. so is nondiscrimination. going forward, let's turn the ugliness of the debate over senate bill 1062 into a renewed search for greater respect and understanding among all arizonans and americans. thank you. [ inaudible question ]

>> you're looking obviously at the protesters who are celebrating the governor of arizona, jan brewer, has vetoed the bill that would have allowed business owners to deny service to people because of their sexuality. outfront tonight, ted haggard former evangelical leader and pastor of st. james's church in colorado springs and peter spriggs from the family research council. let me start here with you, ted. obviously you're a pastor. you were forced to resign as president of the national association of evangelicals after a scandal that involved a male escort. did the governor do the right thing? >> i think she did. i've been married for 35 years. i have five children. i'm a conservative evangelical. i believe we need to respect one another. she did the right thing. that was a broadly worded bill that had unintended consequences

hidden in it that would have developed over the years. i think she did the right thing so that we can continue valuing our religious liberties and our faith and our respect for one another and, in the public square, continue taking care of one another. gail and i were speaking at a large church in phoenix, arizona last weekend. and we stayed in a marriott hotel owned by mormons. those are sincere mormons. we're sincere evangelical christians. it would have been hard-pressed if we were denied a room because they're mormons and we're evangelicals. they rented us the room and that's the way it should be. >> you just heard the governor. she said look, when she looked at this bill, didn't hear one example of where someone had been discriminated against because of their religion so she didn't think the bill made sense. your organization released a

statement today that read "this legislation would give homosexuals more protection than they did under the current law". given nobody could come up with example of the discrimination, how could they have more protection under a law essentially created to allow people who didn't want to serve gays getting married with things like photography or wedding cakes? >> well, the irony is that arizona does not currently have sexual orientation listed as a protected category in either their employment nondiscrimination laws or public accommodation laws. so the current state of the law in arizona is that anybody can discriminate against gays at any time for any reason or for no reason whatsoever. this bill deals only with when a government action conflicts with a person's sincerely held religious belief. it requires the person asserting that right to be able to prove that this is motivated by the religious belief, that that belief is sincerely held, and that the government action is a

substantial burden upon them. if all of those criteria are met, then the government would face a burden of demonstrating that there is a compelling government interest in coercing this individual into violating their religious conscience. so actually, this is much narrower than the existing state of the law. >> ted, what's your response to that? do you think if i go in and i'm getting married to another woman and i go in and i ask for a wedding cake or a photographer, all that, and because of this bill someone might have been allowed to say no, my religion is that i don't believe in gay marriage so i'm not going to provide that service to you. is that what christianity and what your belief in christianity says is the right thing to do, ted? >> no, not at all. jesus came to rescue all of us as sinners. and we were sinners when he rescued us. and we continue to sin to some degree until we see him

face-to-face. and so we as christians have given our life as a life of service. if we distort that into judging others and hurting others and denying other people fair things that we provide to others, under the banner of some religious standard, then that turns into bigotry. and so we as christians are here to wash the feet of others and make life better, not to make life worse. >> and peter, the country seems to be coming over to ted's point of view. 53% of people in most recent polls favor same-sex marriage. that was 32% back in 2003. that number has surged. a federal judge today struck down a ban on same-sex marriage in texas. we've seen that happen in utah, oklahoma,virginia, around the country. like it or not isn't this battle over? >> no. the battle isn't over. the only way that same-sex marriage is going to be legalized nation-wide is if the u.s. supreme court imposes that, a roe v. wade of same-sex marriage.

i have some hope that they will not be so foolish as to make the same mistake with marriage that they did with the issue of abortion. >> erin, if i may comment on that. in 1993 colorado passed an amendment to saying homosexuals could be discriminated against. the supreme court overthrew it. that's been legal precedent on every decision. and there will be a supreme court decision that will make equality the law of the land. >> thanks very much to both of you. we appreciate it. we'll be right back. in 1953. ina afghanistan, in 2009. orbiting the moon in 1971. [ male announcer ] once it's earned, usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because it offers a superior level of protection. and because usaa's commitment to serve current and former military members and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. because an empty pan is a blank canvas.

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