cover story. really fascinating, anderson. >> wow, remarkable images. susan, thanks very much. that does it for this this is "piers morgan live" tonight breaking news they're talking with the world watching and waiting for something, anything to stop the crisis in ukraine. president obama talked to vladimir putin for an hour today. is it all just talk or are they actually closer to solving this? i'll talk to somebody who can translate diplomat speak just about better than anybody else, faried zakaria and somebody else who's covered tough negotiations since his administration, carl bernstein. a pregnant woman drives an suv into the ocean with her three young children inside. what was she thinking? i'll also talk to psychiatrist who examined another infamous mom, andrea yates. can he be a feminist and do porn? she says yes. i'll talk to the g.u. freshman who says she's starting in adult

entertainment to pate high cost of higher education. we begin though with our big story. president obama and president putin talking and maybe looking for a solution to the crisis in ukraine. joining me now is cnn's faried zakaria and political contributor carl bernstein. welcome to you both. a stellar double act if ever there was one. faried, we've talked all week. i want to play you what president obama said today about ukraine and get your reaction to that and his conversation with vladimir putin. >> the proposed referendum on the future of crimea would violate the ukranian constitution and violate international law. any discussion about the future of ukraine must include the legitimate government of ukraine. in 2014, we are well beyond the days when borders can be redrawn over the heads of democratic leaders. >> let me ask you this, faried. is there a legitimate government of ukraine now? >> it's a very good question, piers. because i was struck by the fact

that president obama invoked the constitution of the government of ukraine. well, the president of ukraine was deposed essentially unconstitutionally. essentially by street mobs that decided to force him out of office. there is a process for impeaching a president. it was not followed. so i think that rather than rely on legalisms here, this is a revolutionary situation. things are moving very fast. the more important thing is that we try to find some kind of political accord. and the principle must be, you cannot annex -- russia cannot annex crimea simply by brute force. there has to be a political negotiation where perhaps crimea can have some kind of autonomous relationship with russia. that's the only formula that's going to work. remember when you have a revolutionary situation and there's legal arguments on everyone's side, the one thing that matters is force. and russia has the troops on the

ground. >> carl bernstein, here it seems to me is the conundrum here for everyone involved in this. i would imagine many people living in crimea would quite like to be part of russia. i imagine many people in eastern ukraine would quite like to be part of russia. is it not almost inevitable those two things will evolve over time? and if so, is what vladimir putin's doing so wrong? >> first of all, i don't have a crystal ball. and i think putin doesn't know what's going to happen over time and that's part of the problem. nor do we know what's going to happen over time. with that conversation i'm told between the president and putin was about tonight, it was very disputatious over what faried was talk about, arguing over the legitimacy of the government in kiev and whether it had taken over in hooligan manner, street demonstrations and the rest. putin saying they have no legitimacy. president obama saying yes, they do and the russians have to deal with them. final lit president said, look,

there is an off ramp here. we've got to find it. it can involve real autonomy for crimea. but it has to remain part of the ukraine. but let's cut to the chase for a minute. what this is about is that ukraine was heading out of the soviet orbit in a hurry, out of the russian orbit in a hurry. out of its sphere of influence. and putin became desperate to reel it back in. and the view in the white house is that putin doesn't know his end game yet and that's very worrisome. and his game is to destabilize things. he's doing it quite well but quite dangerously. >> let's play a clip from john kerry in rome. let's listen to what he had to say today. >> the ukranian people, we are convinced beyond any doubt whatsoever, want nothing more than the right to determine their own future. and they want to be able to live freely in a safe and prosperous country where they can make the

choices that people make in other countries around the world. and they have the international community's full support. >> i mean, john kerry seems very certain there, faried, that he knows what the ukraine people think. but is he right? i mean, is there not again i repeat what i said earlier, is there not perhaps the possibility here that one of the factors in putin's favor is that many of the people that supposedly want to become part of europe actually probably don't? >> well, and to add to what you're describing, we have something that's likely to happen. there will be a referendum in crimea very soon. it is quite likely that the -- that that referendum will result in a vote to either be independent or to be part of russia. the facts on the ground are already being created. flights from crimea to moscow now take off from the international airport, not from the domestic airport. the russians have asserted

control and transformed that very quickly. now, you also have the reality that as you pointed out parts of eastern ukraine are ethnically russian. kerry is right in the most important sense, though, which is that the ukranian people's aspirations have to be honored here. how you do it, what mechanism, how many referendums you have to have, whether the ukranian's have to have a national referendum on autonomy for crimea, but that should be at the part of what ends up deciding this. it should not be a decision that is made in moscow or in washington or in brussels or in berlin. it should be a decision that is largely made in ukraine by the ukranian's. and the rest of the world should try to figure out how to support it. that's the part of it that i think is getting lost in mr. putin's desire to maintain russian influence, which is self-defeating. because ultimately if you so alienate all the ukranian people, you have ended up sowing generations of -- the neighbors of russia are watching this and

saying this is a country you have to be careful with because when they want to dominate they will dominate. >> piers, part of the problem is what faried has just described that putin has now pushed a great number of ukranian's, particularly those not in the crimea, and not in eastern ukraine, toward the west even more so. they are virulently opposed to russian domination, kind of hatred now from everybody who's reporting there that they have for putin, for the russians. also it's a little bit partly like switzerland's situation. doesn't mean that everybody who is of russian descent any more than people in switzerland of french or italian or german descent. there are swiss who consider themselves swiss just as ukrainians who consider

themselves especially after putin's action as ukranian. so this thing still is moving away uncontrolled from putin. at the same time, he has unquestionably furthered his interest by reeling crimea back in so that he's going to have a great deal of autonomy. the other thing he wanted to do is to keep ukraine from ever being a full member and partner in nato. and the europeans now are a little slower in accepting the idea that ukraine would ever join nato in a full way. so putin is having some real success here. but it's a tinder box. >> okay. carl, let me ask you this. we've debated this all week. i supposes the two teams that have arisen over the two week, two narratives, one is putin is behaving like some kind of barbarian and has to be reined back accordingly. the second one that barack obama has been somehow weak. do either of those actually hold

water, or are they both just being very political and defending their own national interests? >> i think the argument about obama being weak has very few legs to stand on, in the sense the idea that because of what he did in syria somehow or that hillary clinton reset the button with russia somehow has resulted in this overrun of crimea by putin i think is a pretty ridiculous idea. the real thing that has happened here, let's go back to basics. is that putin does not know how this is going to turn out. that's the worry of the white house. that's the worry of the national security council. and he's trying to figure a way to push ukraine out of the west's influence and back toward himself. he's not succeeding. except with that russian-speaking minority in that part of crimea. so far the off ramp has not been taken.

and that's the problem. >> faried, final word to you and briefly if you may. >> if i might add on that part about obama being weak. we should really look for a president who was strong and tough and had invaded several countries and then putin would be deterred. oh, wait, that happened in 2008 with george bush who invaded iraq and afghanistan and putin faced up to him in georgia, anyway. we have an experiment. >> very good point. >> our domestic policies are not helping the situation especially in the last few days and the cpac meeting in particular is not making things any easier for having a real unified position in the united states in our political leaders. >> well said. carl bernstein and faried zakaria, thank you both very much indeed. a pregnant woman drives her suv into the ocean with her three children inside. what could possibly make any mother do this? and what are warning signs? i'll talk to a top psychiatrist. also my exclusive interview with a 18-year-old who says the only way she can pay her tuition to a top university, duke, is by doing porn.

>> to be in porn and to be able to be naked and to be able to be free and have that sexual autonomy, it is so incredibly freeing. ♪ ♪ ♪ ben! ♪ [ train whistle blows ] oh, that was close. you ain't lying. let quicken loans help you save your money with a mortgage that's engineered to amaze. my sinuses are acting up and i've got this runny nose. i better take something.

truth is, sudafed pe pressure and pain won't treat all of your symptoms. really? alka seltzer plus severe sinus fights your tough sinus symptoms plus your runny nose. oh what a relief it is has begun. so, it's time to expect more. more space. ♪ more leading-edge technology. ♪ and more style. the lexus es. get great offers on your favorite lexus models, now through march 31st. this is the pursuit of perfection. you can't always see them. but it's our job to find them. the answers. the solutions. the innovations. all waiting to help us build something better. something more amazing. a safer, cleaner, brighter future. at boeing, that's what building something better is all about.

♪ so i get invited to quite a few family gatherings. heck, i saved judith here a fortune with discounts like safe driver, multi-car, paperless. you make a mighty fine missus, m'lady. i'm not saying mark's thrifty. let's just say, i saved him $519, and it certainly didn't go toward that ring. am i right? [ laughs ] [ dance music playing ] so visit progressive.com today. i call this one "the robox." i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. [ female announcer ] need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 30 of the web's leading job boards with a single click; then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier.

[ female announcer ] over 100,000 businesses have already used zip recruiter and now you can use zip recruiter for free at a special site for tv viewers; go to ziprecruiter.com/offer5. our goal is to make sure she gets into the system one way or another for the protection of her and for the children. we don't want something like this happening again. we want to make sure that we get to the bottom of it. >> sheriff ben johnson talking

about the story we first brought you last night. a pregnant woman who drove her suv into the atlantic ocean with her three children inside. joining me now is dr. michael welner, thank you for joining me. a really harrowing story this. we have the two heroes who pulled these kids out of the car. they could all have drowned and would have drowned hadn't it been for their speedy actions. but the more we learn about this story the more troubling it becomes. i want to play you before i get your first reaction part of the 911 call from her sister, which is what i'm talking about. >> my sister was getting abused by her husband. i tried to take her to the hospital yesterday and she signed herself out today. she's getting a little bit better but she's still not all here, so she's trying to drive and i'm trying to stop her. and she has her kids. i took her keys. yes, she's here with me. i'm trying to -- she came down to me for protection.

and i'm trying to keep them safe because she's not good enough to five. >> i don't understand why you need a well-being check. >> because she's like having psychosis or something. or postpartum. >> what is she doing? >> she's talking about jesus and that there's demons in my house and that i'm trying to control her but i'm trying to keep them safe. i tried to call the domestic violence shelters to see if i can get help and counselling but they're telling me they're all full. >> now, what's extraordinary, dr. welner, this happened just a few hours before what we're now seeing on screen. what do you make of this? >> i think that i have to tell you that what strikes me with that clip as well as the chief's comments right before it is that she's already in the system and that she was already in a hospital and that she was discharged from a hospital and discharged as the sister says not all there.

and that is so representative of the state of affairs for many seriously mentally ill patients in the united states. where they come into a hospital at obvious risk, they are discharged because they have the appearance of a lower risk. but the family that really knows them is never involved in the discussion, inherits a patient with no instructions from the doctors because of hipaa laws, and there's no owner's manual about how to handle a fragile patient. and when the patient is not completely tied together because length of stay and insurance reimbursement requirements mandate that the patient be pushed out the door. you have situations like this happening frequently. we're only talking about it because three children were involved and because of a dramatic rescue. but there are stories all over the united states today of suicides, and other self injury that happen because of this kind of modus operandi. premature discharge, family disregarded, tragedy results.

>> it does seem quite remarkable when you read more and more about this case. the police report it was clear during my conversation with the mother that she was suffering from some form of mental illness but she was lucid and didn't provide any signs that she met the requirements for staying presumably to take more action. lucidity shouldn't be the only criteria, surely, for whether a mother is fit to be in sole charge of her kids should it? >> well, it shouldn't. but to be fair, and i know what it is to be a psychiatrist in an emergency room making a decision about whether someone is a danger to themselves or someone else. a person, many folks don't want to go into the hospital. and many folks even those who may have severe mental illness will know that when you sit with a psychiatrist who's probing whether you have assaultive or homicidal intent to say no, i don't want to bother anyone. i don't want to hurt anyone. i hear voices here and there but

i'll take my medication. they know what to say in order to manage the impression. that's why it's so important to get family input, because family sees what's happening outside of your emergency room suite where you might be examining somebody for a half hour, an hour, and they can tell you, doc, doc, you have no -- but families aren't involved. and i'm telling you this as a psychiatrist. i think families should have more influence than psychiatrists on the commitment process. and i think that can be very easily remedied. and should be. >> my response would be i don't think the family could have done any more here. you've got a sister who is spelling out absolutely in very clear detail all these problems with her sister, postpartum depression, psychosis, she's pregnant, she's just been abused by her husband. a complete checklist of stuff which should have run huge alarm bells. let's take a short break. i want to come back and talk about the children here. because clearly going forward it's going to be a massive

problem. there's an abusive father, and you've got a mother who's tried to kill them all. what happens to these poor kids? reckon you gotta hotel? i reckon, no. reckon priceline express deals can get you a great deal. wherever you...mosey. you reckon? we reckon. vámonos! priceline express deals. i use my citi thankyou card to get two times the points at the coffee shop. which will help me get to miami...and they'll be stuck at the cube farm. the citi thankyou preferred card. now earn two times the points on dining out with no annual fee. go to citi.com/thankyoucards. cut! [bell rings] this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for... ...all day relief. hmm. [bell ring] "roll sound!" "action!"

millions have raised their hand for the proven relief of the purple pill. and that relief could be in your hand. for many, nexium helps relieve heartburn symptoms from acid reflux disease. find out how you can save at purplepill.com. there is risk of bone fracture and low magnesium levels. side effects may include headache, abdominal pain, and diarrhea. if you have persistent diarrhea, contact your doctor right away. other serious stomach conditions may exist. avoid if you take clopidogrel. for many, relief is at hand. ask your doctor about nexium.

why would a pregnant woman drive her move? the ocean with her children inside? how will the children now deal trauma.

let's talk about these poor children, dr. welner. they're all young. they've all been through an utterly traumatic experience where you could hear them crying out for help. and also they told the heroes who rescued them that their mother was trying to kill them all. what happens now? will this mother automatically be remove from the care of these kids because we believe from the transcript of the phone call from her sister that their father is abusive, too? what happens to them? >> well, the current thinking within psychiatry and psychology is that eventual reunification of a family is in the interests of the family, even in abusive environments. but clearly the mother is in no position to be caring for these children. and in terms of the father, he's a big mystery. because if someone is psychotic, he may well have been quite abusive and that may have been part of whatever irrational thought is. so the father is a big question mark in terms of how he fits into this. but clearly the children cannot

be in that environment. at the same time, and this is i think something for viewers to keep in mind, because it cuts to the heart of the significance of child abuse. it cuts to the heart of incest which is far more common than we admit. children can only learn trust in the relationship that they have with mother and father. and when that sacred trust is so utterly decimated by something as a homicide attempt, where a child cannot even trust a mother, then it has long-term impact on a person's ability to form attachments, form relationships, to love and be loved. so for those of you who are on the edge, recognize that the decision you make may shatter your child in incalculable ways. to think one extra step before you act. >> the children, they're 3, 9 and 10, currently in the care of the state.

i guess this will have to now be resolved in some way. you i think had an involvement with the infamous case involving andrea yates, also other cases like susan smith and others who have done similar kinds of things with their kids. is there a pattern that you can detect at all in these kind of cases? is there a common theme to why mothers crack and do this kind of thing? >> well, the best way -- and i know i'm more familiar with the yates case because i examined her and worked on the case directly than the others. >> i just remind viewers, dr. welner, what she did. >> andrea yates drowned her five children, noah, john, paul, luke and mary, who should certainly be remembered. because nobody speaks for the children. and they do remain faceless when they are plundered. i think that in some instances, a mother is really quite psychotic and completely irrational. in other instances, a mother may

be ill but overwhelmed in making a decision because of her inability to manage her parenting. and in some instances, a mother may be volatile, may be even under the influence of drugs and may act out of anger or spite. and in some instances, we're all familiar of course with casey anthony, a mother may kill her children because she views them as an inconvenience, as appalling as we may appreciate that. so we have to go beyond presumption. you can't take sort of a one size fits all approach with mothers. some of them are ill. and in those who are ill, for some the illness may be incidental to the decision to destroy the family. and in some instances, it's a hallucination and a delusion that's driving it all. >> is it sensible to bring criminal charges in a case like this? >> you have to. because if a person is psychiatrically ill then the system will sort it out. look at, i examined a man who beheaded three of his children in texas after the andrea yates

not guilty by reason of insanity verdict. you know what he told his cell mate? if andrea yates can kill her five children and get off on insanity, so can i. you have to let individuals know who are considering it as an option that society will protect children. because otherwise no one speaks for them. and if illness is truly the driving force, then system will sort it out and treat selected individuals compassionately. and otherwise not forget about victims who are in no position to defend themselves when someone decides to take them into the ocean. >> but let's come back again to the way the system operated here. because i think this is key. because when i read the transcript and listened to the sister talking to the dispatch, i'm not sure what more she could possibly have done. i mean, she outlined the full kind of background to all this. she knew her sister better than anybody else. she talked about abuse, about psychosis, her talk about jesus,

hearing voices. couldn't get into the domestic violence shelter because they were full. she was trying to wrestle the keys away from her. then we hear awn known woman at the end say she's just been released from hospital, pregnant, and they gave her medicine to make her her her drowsy. they must get many calls, not like this but bordering on this kind of thing. but given that scale, that detail, and the fact police followed up, wouldn't that be enough to at least say to somebody in authority we are not going to let this woman drive a car with her kids? we're going to stop that happening? >> well, quite possibly. but again because the dispatcher is not here to speak for herself, the only thing i would introduce into this discussion that somebody listening to this just flush without the benefit of hindsight that we have may have reacted to the early part of the call saying well am i dealing with a domestic abuse situation and suddenly it veers into a discussion of somebody who needs psychiatric care. and am i dealing with an abusive

environment in which we're dealing with a defenseless woman or am dealing with a situation of defenseless children? >> robert to be fair the dispatch did call the police many and the police did investigate this. i suppose my real concern about the precedent here that's been set by what happened in terms of the way the system operated is that if you were the police his listening to the call from the sister, you have to assume they did. when you put this together wouldn't you at the very least prevent this woman from driving a car with her kids? given just a few hours apart all this, the dispatch call from the sister with all the detail, the police talk to the mother, and the next thing within a few hours, wholly unsurprisingly from what the sister's been telling everybody, she goes and tries to do something crazy with her children. >> there is an explanation. law enforcement has been conditioning by the policy of emergency rooms where they will

take people to the emergency room saying we feel this person is scary. a doctor will sit down and examine someone who will hold it together and perhaps be a little bit more contained because she's on a sedative that makes her a little bit more low-key. and then discharge the patient. i want to call attention to your viewers who may feel helpless with all this. there is a law in congress right now of mental health reform proposed by congressman tim murphy. i know because i've contributed to it. and it's specifically earmarks the role of families in being directly influential in communicating with doctors and in having an impact on just how ill someone needs to be in order to be placed into protective treatment. that can be changed. that's actually as simple as changing the law. if this subject matters to you the and if you have a family member who's psychiatrically ill call your congressman. there's a bill before congress now. you should get the murphy bill passed. because it directly impacts cases like this. we don't have to be talking

about theoretical solutions. they exist. they're there. call your congressman. forget what party he's in and just tell him to step up to the plate. >> dr. michael welner, as always great to talk to you. thank you very much indeed. >> appreciate your interest. coming up, the 18-year-old college student who's found a novel way to pay her tuition at duke university. she's working her way through college by doing porn. marge: you know, there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious, and a good source of fiber to help support regularity. wife: mmmm husband: these are good! marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips. or how ornate the halls are. tall the building is, it doesn't matter if there are granite statues, or big mahogany desks. when working with an investment firm, what's really important is whether the people behind the desks actually stand behind what they say.

introducing the schwab accountability guarantee. if you're not happy with one of our participating investment advisory services, we'll refund your program fee from the previous quarter. it's no guarantee against loss and other fees and expenses may still apply. chuck vo: standing by your word, that's what matters the most. then a little time to kick back. earn double hilton honors points with the 2x points package and be one step closer to a weekend break. doubletree by hilton. where the little things mean everything. doubletree by hilton. hey, buddy? oh, hey, flo. you want to see something cool? snapshot, from progressive. my insurance company told me not to talk to people like you. you always do what they tell you? no... try it, and see what your good driving can save you. you don't even have to switch. unless you're scared. i'm not scared, it's...

you know we can still see you. no, you can't. pretty sure we can... try snapshot today -- no pressure.

not long ago that my next guest was just another student at duke university. now she's known as belle knox and acting in porn to pay her tuition. she first told her story on the web site excellent jane and welcome to you. we call you belle. that's not your real name but we're going to protect your real identity. you are probably pound for mound right now the most infamous student in america. how do you feel about that? >> it's pretty absurd. i mean, i would have never expected like this would ever happen. >> really? you're obviously very very bright. because you're doing this course, what is the course you're doing at duke? >> i'm in women's studies and sociology major. >> what does that cover? >> basically we study history, politics, economics, but from a female narrative. >> so you're obviously very bright.

because over 30,000 applications for the course, only 3,000 people got in so we have to assume you are very, very smart young lady, right? so i'm surprised that you are surprised, given how smart you are, that what you're doing in your spare time has caused such a kerfuffle. >> i think to be perfectly honest, if i was just another college girl who does porn this would have been like a day of news. but i think that because i came out in defense of myself an because i really talked about how much porn empowered me and really told my story, i think that's what set this story apart. >> let me just read a little bit of what you said. this is what you said in your own defense. "for me shooting pornography brings me unimaginable joy. when i finish the scene i know that i've done so and completed an honest day's work. it is my artistic outlet, my love, my happiness, my home. i can definitively say i have never felt more empowered and happy doing anything else. in a world where women are so

often robbed of their choice, i am completely in control of my sexual assault. as a bisexual woman with many sexual quirks, i feel completely accepted. it is free, it is empowering, it is wonderful, it is how the world should be. >> do you think the happiest you will be in life is making adult movies? >> absolutely. not my whole life. but we are in a society where we are so repressed every single day. we're told that sex is bad. we're told not to have sex. we're told not to show our bodies. that's really true for women. and to be in porn and to be able to be naked and to be able to be free and have that sexual autonomy, it is so incredibly freeing. >> there will be lots of people watching this who will be feigning outrage and yet secretly probably looking at porn quite regularly themselves.

do you think there's a hypocrisy in the way people treat pornography in america? >> i mean, absolutely. i mean, i think 80% of the world's traffic on the internet is pornography. i think that probably every single person at some point in their life has watched pornography. so i think it's extremely hypocritical that the same society that consumes me is also condemning me. >> it was a powerful piece you wrote, very provocative, got lots of attention. i want to know the reaction from the university itself. how have they responded?? >> they've -- >> here in los angeles you're working in the porn industry right now. you've taken days off college to be here. are they happy with you doing that? >> well, it came to a point where i felt so unsafe on campus, both mentally and physically, that we decided thought was better if i took a

few days off. >> because your real identity was exposed by a fellow student, right? >> yes. and being on campus was just a really upsetting experience for me. so we wanted to just give me some time to reflect and to think. >> right. but you're actually here working though, aren't you? >> yes. >> not really thinking too much. you're making movies. >> the really cool thing about being out here is, i'm surrounded by people in my industry. so i'm surrounded by support. i'm surrounded by people who i can talk to about the stigma that i face every day. so that's what -- that's why i came out here was to have that support that you can't find anywhere else. >> let's go back to the reason that you decided to do this. why did you get into this? obviously you're 18, so a decision you've been able to take recently. why did you do it? >> well, the financial aid that i was given to pay for my tuition was insufficient. it was just a really enormous financial burden on my family.

i was asked to pay about $47,000 a year. >> the breakdown, we've got it here. this is the duke university breakdown, the estimated cost of attendance for 2013 to 14. tuition and fees, 45,000, room 6,000, board 5,800, books and personal expenses, $3500. estimated coast of attendance $61,000. it is an obscene amount of money >> it is absurd. that doesn't even reflect how much it actually costs. the plane tickets and books. it's very expensive to go to college. >> and your family are simply not in a position to meet this kind of cost? >> it's $60,000 a year. i don't know how many families can afford that. that's a lot of of money. and i'm not the only person in my family. my family has other expenses. >> how many siblings do you have? >> i have two siblings. >> you've taken the position you don't want to talk about your family's reaction to this. i guess it's fair to assume if

they were completely supportive we probably would have heard from them by now. it's obviously a very difficult situation for you and your family. do you have any regrets about going public about all this and the fact your real identity is out there and people have worked out your family? or do you regret that part of it? >> what i regret, and i would advise any other girl who's thinking of entering this industry the same thing, i regret not telling my family from the get-go i think that was a really big mistake. i think that i really kind of isolated myself by not telling them. and i think that not telling your family when you're doing sex work, it's a very isolating experience. >> i mean, i've got -- i have no moral hangup about what you do or the industry you're in. but if i'm honest, i've got a young daughter, very young, only two years old. but if she when she was your age decided to do this, i would be pretty upset as her father. i wouldn't like it. and i suspect most fathers would

feel the same way. there must be i guess a difficulty there for you and your family, right? how do you think you're going to come through all that? >> right. well, i've talked to a lot of other sex workers. and i think what really is concerning my parents and other parents is is, is my child safe. is my child being exploited? is my child enjoying what they're doing? and i'm not being exploited. i love what i'm doing. and i'm safe. so i think that we need to come to a level of understanding about that. and a lot of the negative feelings about pornography really come from this narrative that we've been hearing that pornography, all of pornography is degrading and all of it is -- >> let's come back after the break and talk about that. you're talking about it in a very sort of celebratory way. you know the arguments against it. i want to get into that with you

after the break. ♪ ♪ nothing says, "you're my #1 copilot," like a milk-bone biscuit. ♪ say it with milk-bone. ...and let in the dog that woke the man who drove to the control room [ woman ] driverless mode engaged. find parking space. [ woman ] parking space found.

[ male announcer ] ...that secured the data that directed the turbines that powered the farm that made the milk that went to the store that reminded the man to buy the milk that was poured by the girl who loved the cat. [ meows ] the internet of everything is changing everything. cisco. tomorrow starts here. the internet of everything is changing everything.

geico motorcycle. see how much you could save. predibut, manufacturings a prettin the united states do. means advanced technology. we learned that technology allows us to be craft oriented. no one's losing their job. there's no beer robot that has suddenly chased them out. the technology is actually creating new jobs. siemens designed and built the right tools and resources to get the job done. transferred money from his before larry instantly bank of america savings account to his merrill edge retirement account. before he opened his first hot chocolate stand calling winter an "underserved season".

and before he quit his friend's leaf-raking business for "not offering a 401k." larry knew the importance of preparing for retirement. that's why when the time came he counted on merrill edge to streamline his investing and help him plan for the road ahead. that's the power of streamlined connections. that's merrill edge and bank of america. i'm spending too much time hiring and not enough time in my kitchen. [ female announcer ] need to hire fast? go to ziprecruiter.com and post your job to over 30 of the web's leading job boards with a single click; then simply select the best candidates from one easy to review list. you put up one post and the next day you have all these candidates. makes my job a lot easier. [ female announcer ] over 100,000 businesses have already used zip recruiter and now you can use zip recruiter for free at a special site for tv viewers; go to ziprecruiter.com/offer5.

>> i think it's time we put what we always talked about into effect. you're going to have to start hooking. >> you jest but these are the exact circumstances people find themselves in right before they start having sex for money. or making porn. >> what? you got an idea? >> we could make a porno. >> not the idea i was looking for. >> from kevin smith's 2008 film "zach and mary making porn." as we all know truth is stranger than fiction. my guest is a real life college

actress making porn videos. it is quite fascinating talking to you. because you are very smart. you're obviously well-spoken, very eloquent about this. and your position on it all is that actually there's nothing to be ashamed of here in terms of the work that you're doing. >> right. >> why do people profess to find it so shameful do you think? >> well, that comes from thousands of years of patriarchy and thousands of years of religion that lead us to this point where we so deeply fear sexuality. >> so you don't feel that you're being used by an industry which has infamously used women for many decades? women's studies at duke, you won't be oblivious to this. many women have had very bad

experiences in the adult film industry. you don't feel that at all? >> no, i don't. i wouldn't necessarily agree with kind of the statement that, you know, most women in the industry have had negative experiences. i think you hear about those experiences because a lot of the times it's propped up by a political agenda. but, you know, i think that there is a -- there are a lot of women in the porn industry who really love their jobs and find it really empowering. >> are you able to hold down a normal relationship with a man or woman at the moment if you're doing this? i mean, can people operate in this industry do that? >> well, the saying is, if you're having a relationship outside of the industry, it's got to be weird in some way. but no, i'm not in a relationship right now, but i have met a lot of men and women who have no problem with me doing pornography. so i don't think it will be an issue with my future relationships.

>> what about the students at duke? what's been the breakdown percentage wise from all the students you've had any direct reaction from? >> i think it's about -- maybe 70% are okay with me or in favor of me. a lot of that is the lgbt community, and then there's the 30%, the frat guys and the girls who just hate me. >> if you got married in ten years' time or whatever and you had a baby girl, would you want your daughter when she was 18 to be doing what you're doing? i would want my daughter to make an informed decision about her career. i think it's absolutely her choice. >> you don't think you would try and discourage her as a mother? >> no. i think that it's her choice to do pornography. i would try my best to make sure

she was safe and i knew what she was doing and knew where she was going, which is where i went wrong with my family. >> did you worry you'll never have the same relationship with your family again? >> no, i don't worry about that, because at the end of the day, your family loves you and it's that love that will keep us together. i think that -- i mean, any family who would disown their daughter for doing pornography, it's a pretty questionable ethics. i mean, my family loved me six months ago when i wasn't a porn star. what would make them not love me now? >> so they haven't disowned you? >> no. >> and you don't expect them to? >> no, i don't. >> it's got to be difficult for you back at duke. it's now so public, here you are on cnn talking about this. you're going to go back to

normal student life and presumably you're going to make more of these movies. are you ready for that sort of constant onslaught and attention it's going to bring you? >> well, the downside is i can't really go out anymore, i can't really go to a lot of parties or gatherings, because i'm met by a lot of hostility from people. but i'm confident -- >> are you getting hostility from men or women? >> it's a lot of women. i think a lot of that comes from maybe they caught their boyfriend watching my porn. but i mean, like i was saying i can't really go out like i used to. but i'm confident -- >> you said that sort of a wry smile, as if that was quite funny. it wouldn't be funny for that woman if that's what happened, would it? >> there's nothing wrong with watching porn. i think that -- i mean, to be

mad at me because your boyfriend is watching porn or to be jealous of me, it's all so petty and all so ridiculous. but that's just me speculating. >> belle, stay with me. we have a short break coming up. i'll ask you how you got this porn game. i'm told it's your first pet normally and then your street name. hey kevin...still eating chalk for heartburn? yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief! [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. i use my citi thankyou card to get two times the points at the coffee shop. which will help me get to miami...and they'll be stuck at the cube farm. the citi thankyou preferred card. now earn two times the points on dining out with no annual fee. go to citi.com/thankyoucards.

the recent increase in cafeteria prices is not cool. when you vote for flo, we'll have discounts. ice-cream discounts. multi-cookie discounts. pizza loyalty discounts! [ kids chanting "flo!" ] i also have some great ideas on car insurance. [ silence ] finding you discounts since back in the day. call or click today. i like her.

tomorrow night, the case against oscar pistorius. will he take the stands? back now with my guest, duke university student and porn actress belle knox. how did you get the name belle knox? there's supposed to be a formula, first pet, my name was a cat called rocky, then your first street name, which mine was rock bottom lane. >> mine is kind of strange. so it's belle after from "beauty and the beast" and "the call girl."

>> and knox? >> i've always had this fascination with the amanda knox case. >> you're named after amanda knox? suspect that creepy? >> she's just really interesting. she seems like a cool person to talk to about -- she seems very intelligent. i don't know. >> how much do you make from your movie making, what do you get for a film? >> i can make about $1200 each scene. >> which is a lot more than you can get than if you were working as a waitress in north carolina for example? >> absolutely. it's less time consuming. i don't have to worry about, you know, not getting sleep or not doing my work, because i'm working three jobs. >> well, belle, it's been fascinating talking to you. best of luck back at duke. i think you're going to be in

for a fairly rough ride. that's all for us tonight. "chicagoland" premieres right now. cnn's original series "chicagoland" is proudly presented by alstate. are you in good hands? >> chicago is a quintessential american city at the crossroads of change. it's a story that could be told in many cities across the country. welcome to the premiere episode of "chicagoland." >> you want to see america, you come to its heartland. and what is the capital of that heartland? chicago. >> everybody. >> you work hard, you play hard, and you show up the next day. >> chicagoans do not put up with the bull --