-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com right now, new information on when the united states first learned about russia's plans to send troops into ukraine. one official says it was seven to ten days before. so why was the intelligence community, at least parts of it, seemingly caught by surprise? also right now, new attention on an old photo. some are speculating it shows vladimir putin looking leak like a tourist during ronald reagan's visit to russian in 19

8. and sanjay gupta says medical marijuana is irresponsible for doctors not to provide the best care they can and that care often includes marijuana. hello, i'm wolf blitzer reporting from washington. a senior ukrainian border official says 30,000 russian troops now occupy the country's crimean peninsula. that's nearly twice the previous estimate. also happening right now, a u.s.-guided missile destroyer is steaming toward the black sea for naval maneuvers with romania and bulgaria. it was planned before the crisis erupted at the crimean border. 43 unarmed observers from europe were turned away for a second day in a row. camouflage ed gunmen had orders not to allow anyone through the check point. the president back in sochi, russia, today for the opening

ceremony for the paralympic games, despite the crisis at home. in washington, lingering questions over whether u.s. intelligence agencies misread russian military movements of the ukraine quran territory. some critics have singelled out the defense intelligence agency. the head of the agency, michael flynn, defended his analysts today on npr. >> for easily, seven to ten days leading up to the russian troops, as we see them now in the crime i cania, we were prov solid reporting on strategic warning, where we move from one level of sort of a condition of warning, which i would just describe for the audience as sort of moderate to one where we believe things are imminent. >> bringing in our chief national security correspondent,

jim sciutto. so honest disagreements. there are 16 u.s. intelligence agencies. we heard from mike rogers here 24 hours ago. two agencies. he didn't say which ones, seem to have different conclusions in their estimates, in their analysis. but very often. >> , as you well know, intelligence is sometimes more an art than a science. >> no question. you look at his answer there, those words, trying to figure out what he was trying to say. it was moderate. and that's the way intelligence reports are written. because they don't have black and white answers, often. now -- and i've spoken to intelligence officials who said that they provided the administration with a number of possible scenarios for what might happen there. of course, the difficulty then was, which of those scenarios is going to happen and when? what is putin going to do, in effect. i mer mean, the bottom line, it does appear they were caught off guard by what they did and when he did it. and i think they can say now in defense, we presented a number of options here and among those options were things that happened. could they have given him guidance that said, you know what, this one is 75% more likely than this one.

you know, it's always a difficult game there. and you know, i think there is a little bit of competition between the defense intelligence agencies and other members of the intelligence community to say, well, none of us got it 100% right but we got it more right. >> i assume the dia saw troops moving near the ukrainian border. whether they came to the conclusion they would move into crimea, that's a whole different matter. but the technical aspects you see tanks, planes, aircraft, you see whatever is going on. that usually is seen -- sort of reminds me of before the first gulf war in august 1990, the u.s. intelligence community knew saddam hussein had moved 100,000 troops from the iranian border to the kuwaiti border but the estimate, they were not going into kuwait, because invading a fellow arab country, that was not the conclusion. there was a minority of analysts who said they were going in. >> for sure. and another challenge here. and intelligence officials have told me this. our intel on the ground is limited there. we can't fly drones over.

you have satellite pictures, but that's way up here. that's six miles in the sky, right? you can't fly drones over it. you don't have human intelligence on the ground. that's a handicap. so it's not like they're looking into, you know, another country, you know, pakistan, for instance, where we can fly drones over there with impunity. that makes it more difficult not only to count noses of the troops on its ground but also to get a sense of what the next step is. >> what about this phone call that the president had yesterday with putin? they spent an hour on the phone, once again. doesn't look like there is any movement, although you never know what's going on behind the scenes. >> didn't sound like the warmest phone call. and in the competing readouts, one from the white house and one from president putin, from the kremlin, both show they have competing interpretations of what's going on on the ground and what the solution is for the way forward. and you also had, as we were discussing yesterday, of sergey lavrov, going back now to putin to discuss the foreign minister to discuss kerry's plan to get the ukrainians and russians down to the same table. we're in a diplomatic stalemate

and military stalemate at the same time. the talks both sides say they want to talk but haven't figured out how to. on the military side, no troops moving back to the bases and meanwhile, these other events moving along. violence against journalists today. every day we have seen a violent altercation which shows the volatile mix of things you have on the ground. plus two moves in the russian parliament, which are worrisome. one, the russian parliament endorsed this idea of a referendum on sunday for a crimean independence, and also the russian parliament talking about making it easier to give russian citizenship to ethnic russians in eastern ukraine, which creates a whole another problem. >> one of those incidents could trigger -- we only can fear, a major escalation. >> lots of guns on the ground. >> thanks very much. and now a heroes' welcome in moscow, exactly what members of russia's parliament gave pro-russian lawmakers from crimea today. they told the delegation, they fully back their proposed vote on separating from ukraine, even if that support means getting hit with western sanctions. let's go to moscow right now.

russian journalists and cnn analyst vladimir poezner joining us. thanks very much for joining us. you have said russians aren't at all fazed by the thought of sanctions that the country has been through tough times before. won't necessarily back down from this threat from the u.s. and the europeans, even if it's painful. so what is the west and ukraine, for that matter, likely to do if diplomacy doesn't work? >> you know, you've got me guessing, wolf. i have no idea what they're going to do. i've always said that sanctions don't work. they have not worked in the past, not with russia, i don't think they'll work in the future. i hope that there is a way to solve this diplomatically. but if you are asking, well, what if none of the diplomatic discussions work, what's going to happen? frankly, i don't know. i'm very uncomfortable with what might happen. >> when you say you're uncomfortable, what do you fear? >> well, i fear the beginning of a new cold war.

i feel -- i fear the -- a new iron curtain coming down. and ultimately, i even fear a civil war in ukraine. i don't think there will be a military conflict or a war, shall we say. a hot war. between russia and the west. that's something i discount. but the other things i think are reality, and i think that is very uncomfortable. >> what if the u.s. and the europeans and the ukrainian government in kiev insist on the territorial integrity, the sovereignty of all of ukraine, including crimea? what would be the bottom line? what could russia, president putin, accept, you said under those circumstances? in other words, is there a finness, some sort of off-ramp, if you will, for russia? >> well, i think there is. and that is the issue of to what extent crimea can be autonomous

while remaining in the ukraine. remaining part of the ukraine. i think that the idea of taking crimea into the russian federation, making it an administrative unit in the russian federation, is -- would be a grave mistake. now i don't know whether mr. putin shares my view. i think that the backlash would be much, much worse than what happened after the war with georgia. thing is no comparison. but i do think there is the possibility of getting -- giving crimea greater autonomy and some kind of guarantees as to what the ethnic russian population should not fear, which is any kind of law that would ban the teaching of russian schools. that kind of thing. i think it can be worked out, provided both sides really want it to work out. i sometimes get the feeling that there are some people involved here who do not want to get it

worked out. and for whom the worse it is, the better it is. and i don't know exactly who they are, but i feel that in the so-called ukrainian government, there are certain forces there that would like to see a conflict. >> but what you're suggesting is that crimea would have some sort of autonomy, but it would still be part of sovereign ukraine, right? >> yes, it would have to be. it would have to be, because that -- or, in that case, it's no longer part of ukraine, then what is it? is it an independent country? called crimea? i don't think that's a reality at all. does it become part of the russian federation? well, i already told you what i think about that. i think it's a -- would be a major mistake. so for this thing to be -- to be somehow solved, i think crimea has to remain -- even though the majority of people in crimea probably would like to become part of the russian federation, and this -- this referendum that

they're going to hold on the 16th will probably prove that. nevertheless, i don't think it would be prudent to go that way. but i think there is a way of making crimea more autonomous, less dependent on the central key of government. >> vladimir pozner, thank you very much for joining us. we'll check back in the coming days. we're going to have much more on the crisis in ukraine coming up this hour. plus, a conservative political conference sounding like a tent revival, at least in part, as rick perry refs up the republican base. what was the current governor of texas up to? we're going to talk about the future of the gop. gloria borger is standing by to weigh in. and later, our own dr. sanjay gupta is doubling down on medical marijuana. you're going find out why he says americans shouldn't be denied access to the drug. (music)

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this is cnn breaking news. >> breaking news coming out of authority right now. authorities have actually filed charges against the mother who drove her van into the ocean with children inside. listen to ben johnson, sheriff of lucia county in florida. >> that's part of what we look at, the fact she was able to get out of the vehicle. she tried to stop somebody from going into the vehicle. that's one of the reasons you have the premeditated first degree, attempted first degree murder. she definitely tried to kill her children, from everything we have seen. and in so doing, this is more to it -- you know, we want to look at. we want to get it into the system so we can get he have been involved the help that's needed. >> so there you heard it.

first degree attempted murder charges. ashleigh banfield is joining us from new york. she has been reporting extensively on this case. huge interest. you don't every day see a woman with her kids inside drive into the ocean, if you will, and now the sheriff is suggesting she actually wanted to kill her children. >> i'm not the least bet surprised about these charges, wolf. but i'll tell you when i'll be less surprised, and that is when her defense is mounted as an insanity defense. because this one looks pretty classic. i am instantly reminded of andrea yates drowning five of her children in succession, face-up, facing her in the batht bathtub. two trials. one she prevailed and one she didn't. but in this particular case, there are a couple things she is going to have to prove. at least her defense attorneys will. number one, did she understand the nature and consequences of her actions. and did she know right from wrong. those are two prongs and most of the time you've got to prove both of those beyond reasonable doubt to a jury of very

suspecting people. it rarely works in this country. when you watch that videotape and you see a shadow, which is her, emerging from the car, bewildered and playing with her hair, i think that will be very powerful. there is is a lot we don't know about her. there is a lot she has talked about. she has been interviewed and assessed so there is a lot we're going to learn if it proceeds to trial. >> you see the video right there. there you see the woman, emerging from the car. her kids taken by individuals who just happen to be in the area. they saw this car driving into the waves, into the ocean, if you will. they chased, they opened up the rear door. the woman got out and fortunately, the men who were there, the rescuers, they got the kids, they brought them out. they described the woman as dazed when they saw her afterward. so that would fit into some sort of mental illness defense, right, ashleigh? >> a lot of that does. there is is some other evidence as well that those witnesses said on television and whether

they said in a police report yet remains to be seen. one of those witnesses on the scene said the woman kept saying over and over, "we're okay, we're okay, we're okay." and all of a sudden just hit the gas and made a direct turn back into the ocean. so there's also some reporting that she rolled those windows up. but look, there are a lot of different mothers out there in the history of the united states who have killed their children and gone on to say why. some of them say the devil made them do it. some of them say i was protecting them from the devil and getting them to god faster. those are two very different reasons legally speaking. one of them is that you didn't understand right from wrong. you thought you were doing the right thing, sending the children to god. the other one is the devil made me do it. i knew it was wrong, but the devil made me do it, i knew it was wrong. that's a very critical issue in this particular case, if that's the -- if that's the defense she decides to mount, i've got to be honest, wolf, i will be astounded if that is not the defense. and if she doesn't, she'll go

away for the rest of her life for this. >> stand by, ashleigh. torr torrey dunnen reporting on this case. walk us through these charges. >> sure, wolf. they held a news conference minutes ago, where they announced the charges that she is going to be facing. this woman who drove the minivan into the ocean is facing three counts of first degree attempted murder. also, three counts of child abuse. now, some of the reporters in the room asked law enforcement up there how they came to this decision. and basically bottom line, they said they took a look at all of the evidence. the fact that there is so much video that police say showed the woman actually taking a turn into the ocean. they also say they talked with many witnesses, and some of the rescuers. some of the rescuers saying she prohibited them, or tried to, from getting into the minivan while she got herself out. at the same time, they say they have interviewed the children who were involved in this. and talked with them really many times about what they saw happened. they say that at one point or another, they were claiming their mother was trying to kill

them. one of the children got into the front seat and literally tried to turn the minivan around to keep them from going out there into the ocean. so basically police put all this information together, and they decided that yes, in fact, they were going to charge her. >> tory dunnan, thanks for that update. ashley bannfield, thanks to you, as well. when we get more information, we'll share with our viewers. when we come back, we'll take a look at what's going on here in washington, a conservative political group is -- that conference under way right now, and major potential republican presidential candidates, they're outlining their views. gloria borger is here. we'll have a complete update on that and also much more coming up on the crisis in ukraine. capital to make it happen? without the thinking that makes it real? what's a vision without the expertise to execute it...

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chief medical correspondent, dr. sanjay gupta, made news last year after publicly changing his stance on medical marijuana. since then, many lawmakers around the country have been following his lead. in his new cnn op-ed, dr. gupta writes this. i am more convinced than ever, it is irresponsible to not provide the best care we can, care that often may involve marijuana. i am not backing down on medical marijuana. i am doubling down. sanjay is joining us now live from atlanta. s sanjay, powerful stuff. you say the science showing the benefits of medical marijuana, the science is there today more than ever.

and you say it would be irresponsible for lawmakers to deny americans access to medical marijuana. go ahead and explain. >> there are situations out there where we have good evidence now, scientifically, much of it coming from other countries around the world, where certain strains of cannab cannabis, the marijuana plant, can provide relief, help treat an ailment, when nothing else has worked. these are situations, wolf, where, look, they have tried what has been recommended to them. they have tried several different medications. to try and treat the ailment and hasn't worked. and then they have turned to this strain of marijuana and have gotten relief. this has moved out of the realm of the anecdotal, much more squarely into science. there is still clinical trials that need to be done. but these again are cases where there are no options left and the evidence is clear. that's where the irresponsibility i think comes in, wolf. they have no other options. and they're being denied this one. >> and i know you have spent some time in other countries, including israel, where they

seem to be far ahead in the science, showing that medical marijuana actually helps these patients. >> yeah. they have done some of the earliest work in israel. it's quite an amazing history with regard to their scientific discovery there. it was there in the early 1960s where they isolated some of the most important therapeutic compounds in cannabis, cbd and it tch, two main ones people think about. they have gotten to the point now where many clinical trials have been done. you go to some big hospitals in jerusalem, and cannabis is part of the treatment protocols, meaning patients are even using it in the hospitals. i was there with these patients as they were doing this. so it's far ahead compared to in the united states where it's still categorized, scheduled as a substance that is among the most dangerous and has no medicinal benefit. go to israel, they're using in hospitals. you can see the difference here, wolf. >> you certainly can. and your documentary really, sanjay, hits on the big issue,

at least one of the big issues, the government impact on all of this. i want to play a little clip from your second documentary, part two. >> the federal government says marijuana is among the most addictive drugs with no medicinal value. many serious scientists say they're wrong. >> it's a medicine. >> it's the politics of pot. getting policy against patients. trapped in the middle, sick, qualified people who want medical marijuana but can't get it. because it's illegal. >> as you know, sanjay, the argument that some make is that you give them medical marijuana, it's only going to cause them to begin using harder drugs. and there's going to be no end to this. >> yeah. look, there are legitimate concerns out there, i think. and one of them, this idea that it creates a more permissive culture and increases usage. look, i worry about that, as well. i'm a dad. that's not the message that needs to be sent here.

that's a legitimate concern. the off shoot of that, though, the counter to that, there are patients out there for whom this works when nothing else does. are you going to deny people that therapy because of the concerns about this permissive culture? you know, look, it's a good question. et a tough question. it's not the first time this question has been asked with regard to medicine. we have asked these same questions about opium and poppy and the precursors to oxycontin, vicodin, lots of other medications. there is always concerns about these types of medications. with regard to gateway -- the gateway idea that it's going to lead to harder drugs, i just don't think the evidence is there of that, wolf. i mean, this idea that your brain changes somehow in response to marijuana, then making you crave harder and harder drugs, i've looked at this. and, you know, again, i was somebody who bought into that idea more than before. more before. and i think it's just not true. i don't think it leads to that sort of harder drug use.

but these are legitimate concerns, and they're concerns that should be addressed. >> sanjay, thanks very much for doing your excellent reporting on this really important subject that potentially could benefit a lot of people out there who are very sick. sanjay, thanks very much. >> you got it, wolf. >> this note to our viewers. sanjay continues his groundbreaking reporting on medical marijuana in a special report entitled "weed 2." you'll meet families leaving everything and everyone behind to have access to this medicine. "weed 2: cannabis madness" this tuesday night, 10:00 p.m. eastern only here on cnn. you can always see dr. sanjay's weekend show, sunday mornings, 7:30 a.m. eastern. sanjay gupta md. still ahead, rick perry revs up the republican base. what about the future of the gop? gloria, she is here with me. of we'll discuss. i'm only in my 60's... i've got a nice long life ahead. big plans. so when i found out

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federal government's role. defend our country. provide a cogent foreign policy. and what the heck, deliver the mail, preferably on time and on saturdays. get out of the health care business. get out of the education business. stop hammering industry. let the sleeping giant of american enterprise create prosperity again. >> arousing speech indeed. our chief political analyst, gloria borger. >> what you call red meat, wolf. >> there seems to be a little bit of a fight going on within the gop for the soul of the party. >> yeah, well, there's a big fight going on within the republican party. and it's a healthy debate. it's a vibrant debate. but there is no tenning that it's going on. what you just saw with rick perry is somebody who is really appealing to conservatives in that party. you remember his spectacular -- last time around. i think he's tanned, rested and ready, as they say, for round

two this time. but, you know, you have chris christie, who appeared there this week. and ironically, chris christie got a really standing ovation, did very well with his conservative group. remember, he wasn't invited the year before. because he's been taking on the media. it's gotten a lot of republicans on his side, the whole bridge-gate scandal. and he checked every box for conservatives. and then, you know, you had ted cruz who also spoke to the group and said you know what, we cannot give in all of our fights on obamacare, because we have to differentiate ourselves from democrats. we don't win when we sound like democrats. and he said, you know, remember president romney, remember president mccain didn't work out so well for them. so there is a fight in the republican party orthopedic surgeon foreign policy, as well. >> a major fight on important policy. because you see the traditional ne-yo conservative type hawks, but there is a growing number of republicans who are much more

isolationist. rand paul, for example. >> you see marco rubio, who had a lot of problems with the republican party on immigration, because he was for a pathway to citizenship. now he's talking about a more muscular foreign policy, kind of mccain-lite. not as muscular as john mccain. but i think he's trying to stake out a position there. so with this conference, everybody is kind of auditioning for the base to see how they're received, and you know, judging from today, perry was pretty well-received and may have had a little more time to plan a campaign than he did last time around. >> he's got to be careful with one line. i know what he was trying to say, the government should get out of health care. he was opposed to obama's health care, the affordable care act. but remember, the government is deeply involved in health care for seniors, a program called medicare. >> yeah, i heard of that one. >> which is very, very popular. and i believe that is the government involved in health care. >> absolutely. and if you look at the polling on obamacare, by the way, while more people still oppose it than support it, there is some

polling out today that shows that when you go through the individual parts of obamacare, like no preexisting conditions, being able to keep your kids on your health care policy until they're 26, those things people support. so it's very hard to tell people we're going to take away something from you that you already have. so that's why republicans are searching for an alternative to the repeal strategy with a replace strategy. >> sure he doesn't want to repeal medicare. >> no. no, no, no. >> thanks, very much. still ahead, both the u.s. and russia agree on the need for a peaceful resolution of the crisis in ukraine. so what's the hold up? former defense secretary, william cohen, he is here. we'll discuss what's going on. also coming up, how much do you know about the death penalty? we'll take a closer look at a fascinating new cnn series, and talk with a former u.s. attorney general. marge: you know, there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies.

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ukraine now estimates 30,000 russian troops occupy this crimean peninsula. also happening right now, u.s. guided missile destroyer steaming toward naval maneuvers planned before the crisis erupted. at the border, 43 unarmed observers from europe turned away a second day in a row. the camouflaged gunmen said they had orders not to let anyone through the checkpoint. and the russian president, vladimir putin, was back in sochi, russia, today, for the opening ceremony of the paralympic games. ukraine team chose to compete, despite this crisis at home. william cohen, republican senator from maine, former defense secretary, here with me right now. mr. secretary, thanks very much for coming in. >> good to be with you, wolf. >> is there a peaceful resolution that will allow crima to remain part of the sovereign

country of ukraine, but will meet the minimal needs of russia? they see -- they say they have some strategic interests there. >> well, they do. and that's something we have to take into account. russia has some very special interests in crimea. but that issue could have been we know what the policy is of the russians. they have guns, they have gas, they have gay bashing policy. those are the things that perhaps they -- that stand for russia. but in this particular case, they could have solved this very easily, without the use of force. >> how do you solve it? what's your recommendation? >> two things. number one, we keep talking to them. that's better on -- >> the president spent an hour on the phone with putin yesterday. >> very important to keep talking. also to take action. we have to make sure there is a penalty associated with this kind of violation of the u.n. charter, violation of ukraine sovereignty, violation of every agreement that has been agreed to by the russians. so they have to pay a penalty for this. the penalty has to be economic. you saw what happened -- >> the pain on the russian side would be significant. but they could then inflict a

lot of pain on the european allies. >> they could. and one reason why, second point, we have to make sure that the energy sources in europe are diversified. that we help the europeans become less dependent upon russia. >> that's a long-term --. it's long-term, but starting now, sending the signal now. in addition to the economic kind of actions that could be taken, they won't solve the problem initially. but sending the message to russia and to the rest of the world, there are penalties associated with this. and, by the way, then trying to beef up some of the military capabilities of all of the nato members. taking some of the excess defense equipment out of afghanistan. putting it into those countries that need -- >> to reassure them. >> to reassure them they're there, they're part of nato. >> the polls, they're nervous right now. the baltic country states, they're pretty nervous, and the u.s. has taken some symbolic steps, sending some aircraft and troops into that and other equipment into those areas. but no one really thinks this is going to result in some sort of

new world war or anything like that. but there is concern that the cold war could be revised. >> it could be revived. and the thing is, if mr. putin, president putin, is determined to swallow up crimea, we need to take action that will make it a bone stuck in his throat. >> let's say this referendum they have scheduled in the coming days, the people in crimea vote, say we don't want to be part of -- they say we want to be part of russia. and the ethnic russians that's probably what they want. >> you could make that case for populations in other countries. you mentionis tonya, lithuania, latvia, have fairly significant russian populations, as well. you start that argument and suddenly russia, well, we've got to protect our russian people in those countries. and then you formulate some kind of a crisis and then -- >> so what do we do though? the united states do, the nato allies do, the europeans, the eu, if, in fact, this referendum does suggest, does show the

majority of folks in crimea want to to leave ukraine, go to russia? >> we have to persuade the russians this is not in their best interest. if they were to do that and support that, then they're going to set in motion a series of movements that are going to isolate russia in a major way. long term, this will ultimately hurt russia. this will have an economic impact on them and then what does he have to show for it? he's got his guns, yes, but if you can reduce the reliance of the europeans on the gas, there goes his economy and then let's see how happy the russian people are under those circumstances. so there are things we can do and must do. we should do it forcefully, but not with any kind of braff addo and chest-bating and saying we're going oh to beat putin back into a corner. >> you were defense secretary during clinton. did you meet with putin? >> i did. >> what did you think of him? because madeline albright said the other day on cnn he was delusional. others like mike rogers say he's smart, savvy, shrewd, not delusional. >> we've got to stop the

name-calling. that is pretty pet you lent to start accusing president putin of being in any way less than rational. that he's somehow messianic. he may have a vision for russia which is insistent with the 21st century. but let's not demonize the president of russia. let's say, okay, we don't like what you have done, we think it's a mistake. you have jeopardizing our own future, as well as that of ukraine and central europe, et cetera. but let's find a way to make this work. taking into account your interests that we can help preserve and to do so in a way that helps the russian people. >> making comparisons to what the nazis did before world war ii. >> got to stop that. we have to stop trying to demonize the russians. they're going to behave in a way that they think satisfies their historic role in the world. we have to persuade them and the russian people. that's not the way to go. there is a better way to go. and poland is a good example. the other nato countries, good example of what you can do with a free, open, prosperous

society. >> mr. secretary, good to have you back here. >> good to be back. >> thanks very much, william cohen, former defense secretary of the united states. coming up, a chilling look inside the criminal justice system in the united states. a new cnn series, "death row stories," aims to unravel the truth behind capital murder cases. we're going to ask the former u.s. attorney general, alberto gonzalez, for his take. that's next. my sinuses are acting up and i've got this runny nose. i better take something. truth is, sudafed pe pressure and pain

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right now in the united states 24rr more than 3,000 people waiting to be executed and at the same time there death row inmates being exonerated through dna testing and other evidence. our new series death row stories picks apart different cases. one centers around law school intern diana holt. she is like a detective taking a fresh look at testimony and refusing to give up. watch this.

>> in order to solve the mystery of who did murder dorothy edwards, diana began looking for alternate suspects and found in the neighbor who discovered the body. james holloway. >> i read the testimony of james holloway and my head just about spun off of my neck. wow! >> holloway spent an unusually long period of time at the crime scene before calling the police. >> he goes inside dorothy edwards's house and sees that wall of blood for the first time. but he doesn't call police. he decides that he's going to go to the other side neighbor and get her to come in the house with him. so he's at the closet door again and he decides to put gloves on. then he opens the door and lo and behold, there she was. >> really? he put his gloves on before he

went to open the door? >> that case an african-american man with an iq of only 75 spent half of his life in prison for a crime he said he didn't commit. alberto gonzalez is joining us from national. thanks very much. what's your opinion? the man got the death penalty and spent half of his life in prison. i know you support the death penalty, but do you agree there serious problems with this entire system? >> i agree that we have problems, wolf. no question about it. i applaud efforts to ensure that in fact when the state imposes the death penalty, they are imposing it on individuals guilty of the crime. there many cases however in which there is no doubt that a person has committed a death penalty-worthy crime.

there is a confession and multiple witnesses and direct evidence. for that 18 i think it is appropriate for the citizens of the state to decide we should have a state law that authorizes the death penalty in the case. i can't imagine anyone would support the death penalty being imposed in those cases where there is doubt about guilt or innocence. >> because this specific case that we featured in the series raises big issues about race, dna testing, mental disabilities and do you agree with the rulings that actually prevent people who are mentally disabled from being executed? >> whether or not i agree with it, it does represent the law of the land. the supreme court has found the death penalty to be constitutional, but has imposed limits on the imposition. for example, cannot be imposed on juveniles and cannot be imposed on juveniles that don't

have a certain iq requirement. the supreme court told us that the death penalty is constitutional and there limits in terms of how we will impose it. again, i do believe in the death penalty, but only with respect to those who are guilty of committing the crime and i support efforts to look at cases and use dna and new technology to ensure that the imposition of this type of punishment by the state is in fact being inflicted on those who are guilty of the crime. >> the supreme court said that death sentences have to be imposed by a jury and not just the judge. do you think that's a good idea? >> i think you can make the arguments either way. jurors become very emotional and get invested in a particular case. they may get sympathetic towards the victim and the victim's family. the judge can be more impartial. there is a sense of comfort and

relief in lives upon the jury of 12 to have a unanimous verdict of a death sentence and the fact that the evidence has to be overwhelming to convince a jury of 12. again, wolf, i can make the arguments either way. again, the key is ensuring that we are doing everything we can do so that we don't put an innocent person to death. >> requequickly, do you think t death penalty is a deter ept to those who will kill someone? >> i haven't seen anyone that convinces me that it's much of a deterrent. from my perspective there some kind of crimes for which it is appropriate toiment pose this punishment. that's a decision by the citizens of the state, but i'm not sure how much of a deterrent it is to someone who is intent on committing this crime. i believe in my soul that there certain crimes in which the death penalty is appropriate.

>> alberto gonzalez attorney general during the bush administration, thanks very much for joining us. during this death row stories, the series with robered redford, death row stories remears this sunday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern. i think you want to watch it. that's it for me and thanks for watching. i will be back in "the situation room." newsroom with brooke baldwin starts after a quick break.

at the top of the hour, it's friday. i'm brooke baldwin. first-degree murder charges for the mother who drove her van into the ocean with her three little children inside. remember this video? absolutely terrifying to watch. the incident happened tuesday near daytona beach. her kids were heard screaming and crying, waving for help as their mother, ebony wilkerson continued to drive the van into the ocean saying they were okay. bystanders had to rescue the kids. wilkerson underwent a mental evaluation tuesday and a short time ago a sheriff said it disappoints him to see people and mothers do this to their own children. >>t