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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  March 11, 2014 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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good evening, everyone. thanks for joining us. we begin tonight with a simple question, a question many people have been asking them stephs. how can a modern airliner just
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direction. has the u.s. -- have u.s. officials known about this radical change in course? and has their assessment of potential involvement of terrorism, has it changed at all? >> reporter: well, to my knowledge they did not know about this change in course. there are even questions about this. you have others in the prime minister's office who are saying that this data about going over that island there at the end is not information that they have. and it's remarkable as you say that the military would have known this from the moment the plane disappeared and only to share it today, a tremendous mystery. but intelligence officials i talked to, their position has not changed. they still say they have nothing to indicate this was terror to this point. they are checking out all leads, and as the director of the cia john brennan said, they have not ruled out terror but they haven't seen anything including this new information today that leads them to say terrorism, doesn't mean they've ruled it out, doesn't mean they might change their minds at some point. but to this point they don't have a substantial tie. >> jim sciutto, appreciate the
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update. joining us is shawn henry, president of -- former assistant director of the fbi where he was responsible for cyber and international divisions. david galla of the national oceanic and air institute. leading of the search for ethiopian flight 447. peter, let me start with you. what do you make of the news that the transponder was turned off and the plane made this significant turn? how easy is it to turn off a transponder? >> it's not difficult and pilots can do it. although the circumstances of them being able to do it or wanting to do it is simply inexplicable. they wouldn't want to do that. you don't want to fly blind to your air traffic controllers and to other aircraft.
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the real problem in this so far, anderson, is how the investigation is being conducted. this is a military-led investigation. there are protocols and there's a treaty signed that should be governing this investigation that would allow other countries to step in and give assistance that we have a standing to do that. and so far the malaysians have chosen not to exercise that treaty. it's being run by the military. and we've got real chaos. >> do we know why they haven't exercised that treaty? is it a point of pride? >> well, they're a signatory to the treaty. this is the international civil aviation organization annex 13. and if you have an accident, it sets out the protocols. the ntsb would be the american accredited representative there. they have not been involved yet in helping the malaysians. >> david, you say that this is turning to really one of the biggest mysteries of all time. are you encouraged by this new
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information, the new focus on the straits of malaka and do you understand why it took this long for the information to come out? >> anderson, the one thing we have to go on is solid facts, the real evidence. and that to me up until today was the last-known position of that plane. if i had a team on the sidelines waiting to go with a ship mobilized with search gear, this would be really frustrating to say not only is it not here in the spot we thought it is, it's in another ocean out on the other side of this peninsula. i mean, truly frustrating. but on the other hand, you've got to go with the most unturned theory that plane has to be someplace and they need to check out the leads. really frustrating and really perplexing. >> just because that was the last place according to these malaysian military that it was on the radar, that doesn't necessarily mean that something happened to it in that spot. it could just be at that point, shawn, flying below radar. >> yeah.
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that's true. >> shawn go ahead. >> that's right, anderson. you don't know until you actually find the physical evidence. building on david's point, there are four competing theories of what's occurred here and we've really got to look at all the facts whether it be terrorism, hijacking, pilot error or mechanical failure. at this point without any real physical evidence i think you've got to look at all the people that are involved. three of those competing theories that are people that would have been involved in those first three and perhaps even in a mechanical failure there may be people involved. i think from an investigative perspective you've got to look at who the people were, the people that were on the plane, the people that were on the ground, the pilots in that aircraft. and you've got to chase those facts fully to try and develop this to full conclusion. >> but shawn, in terms of mechanical failure does it make sense that the transponder would be turned off? is that possible just with mechanical failure the transponder would stop working?
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>> it could. >> peter does that jibe with what you understood as well? >> theoretically it could. but the 777 has multiple redundancies for this kind of potential failure. as a last resort it has what's known as a ram jet generator. they can drop this generator. it deploys beneath the aircraft. and the forward speeds generate enough electricity to run their basic avionics and to run their their transponder transponder. it's very perplexing. >> i talked to an in many of former pilots all who believe something catastrophic and quick must have happened. if what we now have learned today about this change of of direction, the plane flying in the completely opposite direction is true, does that rule out something catastrophic? the fact that the plane was able to change direction was able to
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continue to fly? >> well, it implies thought was under some sort of human control. and that's the issue for the malaysians to start getting other people involved in the investigation. to start looking, getting other experts to review the radar tapes, to review making inquiries. whose radar was turned on that night? were there any war ships in the straits that had their radar turned on? we need to get as much evidence as possible from the radar to help us figure out where this plane is. >> david, you point out that the straits of malaka are relatively shallow. but if a plane turned and ended up in the open sea to the north even the depth there get much deeper. >> yeah. in the gulf of thailand and the southern parts of the straits it's fairly shallow. in fact it's shallower than the length of the plane. so if the plane was standing on its nose it would be sticking out of the water. but if you get into the andeman sea you're in 2 1/2 miles of water and that's a whole different ball game.
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at the end of the day, anderson, what it's going to come down to with no witnesses, not a lot of evidence, we've got to find that plane and retrieve those black boxes with the hope that the information is on those black boxes. >> as you know better than anybody, that can take years. it took i think two years in the air france flight that went down between rio and paris. >> yeah. i was hoping against hope that air france was in a remote area in very deep water. >> 13,000 feet. >> rugged mountain range. right. and in this case it's in a heavily trafficked area, not remote, very shallow water. so i was hoping that we'd find that x marks the spot of the haystack and then the pieces of the needle would be fairly easy to find. but again it's incredibly perplexing. >> shawn, if this was a terrorist act, obviously or generally, typically, terrorists do like to claim credit for it or some sort of a video would be released. i mean, terrorist act is all about making an impact, political statement, some sort of public statement. if nobody knows it's a terrorist
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act it's not much of a statement. what do you make of that? >> i think that you still can't rule terrorism out but that is one of the questions that a lot of folks have is why hasn't there been some public statement made. that is typically on the heels of a terrorist organization looking to strike fear in the hearts of citizens. they want to proclaim that they were behind it. so that certainly is a concern here. but i agree with some of the other folks in the intelligence community that until you've got -- collected all the facts you certainly can't rule that out. there might be another reason for them not coming forward at this point. if this were perhaps -- if it was a terrorist incident, and i'm purely speculating, this was part of a much larger or broader potential act and for whatever reason they wouldn't come forward at this point but at a later time. >> i see. so you're saying if again it was part of a terrorist act and part of a larger operation that operation may be under way or about to take place and therefore they wouldn't want to tip their hand. >> that's certainly a possibility. speculation of course. >> right. again we just simply don't know
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at this point. shawn henry, david galla, peter galls as well. follow me on twitter using #ac360. coming up next we'll continue to follow this investigation. we'll take you to kuala lumpur where complaints about the government's handling there, malaysian government's handling of the investigation are growing particularly among the families who are so desperately weight. we'll also look at some of aviation's toughest mysteries, how they were solved and why some became the focus of all kinds of extreme theories. we'll be right back. work fast d taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. alka-seltzer fruit chews. enjoy the relief! check for more! well, i guess i can double check... my watch! [ male announcer ] it pays to double check, with state farm.
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for all of today's dramatic developments in the search for flight 370 there are no answers just questions. human nature has a tough time with that. not knowing is certainly hard and difficult. people want to connect the dots even when there are no dots to connect. that's why as these kind of case proceed along with the false leads and blind alleys and unsolvable mysteries you see wishful thinking and fantastic scenarios. >> reporter: with the wreckage still missing, speculation isn't. theories of what happened to flight 370 are swirling all over the internet, mostly over social media sites like twitter.
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>> it's accelerated in recent years because of the internet and because in this case of the international aspect of the story where you have people piping in with their conspiracy theories literally from all around the world. >> reporter: late yesterday, a theory rocketed around the internet about phone calls from family members for people who were on the plane. relatives said they could tell the phones of the missing were still on by checking a popular chinese instant mess enger service called qq. relatives also saying when they dialled some passenger's numbers the phones would actually ring and not go straight to voice mail, indicating they were indeed on. were they turned on because passengers were trying to make frantic calls, something else? according to the "washington post," the desperate families demanded answers from the airline but were ignored. >> it's a fairly rare event when a major airliner happens. when that happens people suspect horrible foul play was involved. >> reporter: another theory, a meteor took the plane down. there was a known meteor in the area at the time the plane took off.
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so could it have hit the plane? given what we know about the erratic flight path, highly unlikely. and then there's the idea of the miraculous might have happened, that the plane somehow landed near the rocky outcrop of an island called pulau perak and the passengers are still alive. a close look at the island shows how forbidding the place really is. and the approach to the rocky coast would be treacherous. and the steep walls would make the idea of anyone climbing from the wreckage to safely ex exceedingly difficult. you can see structuring at the summit of the island. is there anyone inside? doubtful. but it does give the families and loved ones of the passengers a place to put their hope. >> pamela brown joins us now. the lack of information and the conflicting stories coming from the malaysian government, that's obviously driving some of these stories. people come up with their own theories as to what happened. >> reporter: that's certainly sort of fuelling the fire. people honing in on the erirregularities, oddities you see that they do in any disaster
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to weave together a larger theory that would help them make sense of it. when you have a dearth of information like in this case people want to fill that vacuum with their own theirries like 9/11, the jfk assassination and other plane crashes we've seen. it's a way for some people to create order in the universe and believe that bad things don't just happen, they happen because bad people make them happen. you can bet, anderson, as the time passes on and this still remains a mystery people will continue to come up with their own theories as to what happened here. >> pamela brown, thanks very much. again we simply don't know. it very well may be some sort of act of terror, something involving people. as you might imagine the lack of information in general is causing strain among the families. there are also complaints that malaysian authorities have been contradictory or less than fully forth coming with their statements. what's it been like on the ground? i cannot imagine what these last four days have been like for families, for loved ones.
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are they getting the answers now that they need or at least getting timely information? >> reporter: they're getting a stream of information, but it doesn't tell them anything. and that only makes them more frustrated. i think that when we look at the record, i've been here now for five days, and looking across the whole seen we have been given conflicting stories. we are told that the plane disappeared, its transponder stopped sending signals when it was right at the crossing point out in the south china sea between malaysia and vietnam. it may have attempted a turn back there. meantime, the u.s. navy has been sent to the straights of malaka to search. when we asked and we tried to press military officials here exactly where did you track this plane, how far did it go, they would only say to that point in the south china sea. and then a senior air force
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source telling cnn last night that the military had tracked the plane all the way to that island that you're talking about, pulau perak. and the situation is one where everybody is left confused. why are they searching the south china sea if they tracked the plane there? there are perhaps some competition between different governmental agencies here. but it has left people very frustrated because they don't feel the resources have been deployed in the right place at the right time. so there's going to be repercussions from all of this. the prime minister's office has said it's not true that they didn't track the plane all the way to that island. we're going to have to wait and see. i think there's a lot of skepticism on the ground from the media and everybody else about what is actually going on in this search. i personally and others have pressed them, show us the radar records.
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let us see where the plane went. they say for security reasons they're not going to be doing that. they're trying to get more information. anderson? >> well, that's infuriating obviously governments want to sort of protect their capabilities, their radar capabilities. maybe that's some of their reluctance to share information. but i just don't understand. it doesn't make sense to me why after four days all of a sudden we get this report from this malaysian military or air force source talking about this complete radical change in direction if they've been searching -- it sounds like not only are they not disseminating information to the public and to the families and to journalists, but more importantly even to within the malaysian government or authorities who are searching for this. it doesn't sound like there's that clear chain of information. >> reporter: there is competition between some of these government agencies. there's no doubt about that. the chinese have come here for many reasons, but one of them certainly is to try to get to the heart of it to see the raw
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data. i think that the u.s. and others are going to be trying to do the same thing. there is a lack of trust and it's only going to get worse unless we get some transparency on this, anderson. >> the malaysian government could basically request by declaring it a disaster could make it not a malaysian military operation, it could get help from other countries, from the united states. they haven't yet really done that. jim appreciate the update from kuala lumpur. find out more on the story at cnn.com. ahead just how investigators solved the mystery of twa flight 800 after it vanished with no warning over the atlantic. what can we learn from the search on that investigation? plus the oscar pistorius murder trial. more testimony today from the pathologist about the autopsy of reeva steenkamp. the question is did his testimony put any dents in the athlete's story? we'll have details on that ahead. i always say be the man with the plan
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flight 370 isn't the first high tech jumbo jet to vanish
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mid flight it doesn't happen often but we have seen this type of mystery before. sometimes it can be solved. randi kaye tonight takes a look. >> reporter: air france flight 447 was on its way from brazil to france when it plunged into the atlantic ocean, killing all 228 people on board. that was june 2009. and like malaysia airlines flight 370, the plane vanished without a distress call. >> we really need to know what happened on that night in the middle of the ocean. >> reporter: finding out what happened would take time. five days of intense searching before floating wreckage was found. and another two years before the aircraft's voice recorder and flight data recorder were pulled from the ocean floor. >> translator: we can only be happy at this stage that two years after this accident we have hope. >> reporter: but why did it crash? it took a year for france's bureau of investigation to release its definitive report.
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the conclusion, pilot error. in an attempt to recover from ice crystals affecting their speed sensors, the pilots pointed the nose upward rather than downward. 13 years before that crash there was twa flight 800, conspiracy theorists believe we still don't know the truth. was it a bomb, a missile, or mechanical failure that brought the jet down just 12 minutes after takeoff from new york's jfk airport. it was july 17th, 1996. all 230 people on board the paris-bound 747 were killed. 4,000 interviews later claims that a u.s. navy ship had accidentally shot down the airplane. finally, four years into it, terrorism and a friendly fire missile strike were ruled out. >> we've determined that the probable cause of the twa flight 800 accident was an explosion of the center wing tank resulting
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from ignition of the flammable fuel air mixture in the tank. >> reporter: another great mystery, u.s. air flight 427. it left chicago's o'hare international airport on september 8, 1994, bound for pittsburgh. just six miles out while passing through the jet stream of another plane, flight 427 began to shake. it rolled upside down, spiralling 300 miles per hour toward the ground. 132 passengers and crew were killed. >> it involved two full public hearings and several million dollars worth of testing trying to duplicate the failure. the findings were never 100% conclusive because they couldn't duplicate the failure. >> reporter: more than a decade earlier, korean airlines flight 007 from new york city to seoul was blown out of the sky. september 1st, 1983. turns out it was shot down, killing all 269 people on board.
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the race was on for answer inside the black box beneath the sea. >> the world is waiting for the soviet union to tell truth. >> reporter: the truth ended up being that the pilots had set their auto pilot but it failed, taking them directly into soviet air space. looking at the erratic flight path of malaysia flight 370, that scenario seems unlikely. but we may never know for sure. randi kaye, cnn. >> it also makes us take a very long time before we do know. joining me now avenuiation expert john hansman professor of aeronautics and astronautics at m.i.t. what did aviation experts learn from that disaster, that incident that could be applied to this search? >> it was a little bit of a different situation because we actually had a record -- there was actually signals that were coming off the airplane from the
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maintenance system through the satellite. so we knew something had happened. we knew it was a mechanical problem. and we knew approximately where to search. even with that search fairly well-defined it still took four or five days to find the wreckage. >> four or five days to find the wreckage, two years to actually bring up the black box. >> that's right, yeah. that was a real deep case. they were originally looking in about the right place but they didn't find it initially. and sort of got off target. so they had to come back with the real deep sonar to be able to see it. >> as randi was talking about after the twa 800 tragedy there was discussion about whether it was a bomb or missile that brought down the plane. turned out to be mechanical catastrophe. you can't disprove anything until you find that black box, correct? >> that's the best piece of evidence we can get. it has the trajectory, what was going on with the controls, what was happening inside the cockpit.
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but we have to build our knowledge with whatever evidence we can get. so the physical evidence will be the strongest, but right now the radar data appears to be the only thing we have. >> does it make sense just from a mechanical standpoint that a transponder would be -- would stop working? does that have to be turned off or is that something that can just malfunction? >> it's hard to see how the transponder would go off and then the airplane would still sort of fly the way it did. you can have an electrical failure, you can have a problem with the antenna, things like that. there are two transponders on the airplane. so you actually would have to fail both of them. so it looks like it's more likely an intentional thing. and then plus it appears if you can believe the malaysian radar reports, thought was coupled with this change in direction. and i can't find any reasonable mechanical failure that would sort of result in that kind of flight trajectory. >> so as far as you're
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concerned, and again we simply don't know, what are the main points you are watching very closely in all this? >> well again, what i'd really like to know is more data on the radar track. my assumption from what they're saying is that the transponder was turned off so the normal air traffic control radar wasn't working. but military radars that are designed to see targets that are trying to hide, you can see because of the reflection of the radar off of the metal skin. it would be interesting to see what the altitude of the airplane was, was it descending or whatever. and i would be looking at the data right when they lost contact with it. so did they lose contact over that island because it was just too low and it was hard to seat target or too far away from the radar? or was the airplane coming down at that point? >> john hansman appreciate you being on. we'll continue to consult with you in the days ahead. still ahead on the program
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tonight, the agonizing wait for the families of those on flight 370. we will tell you more about the people on board later on in the program tonight. also in the oscar pistorius trial, the defense score some points. we'll have that detail ahead. people don't have to think about where their electricity comes from. they flip the switch-- and the light comes on. it's our job to make sure that it does. using natural gas this power plant can produce enough energy for about 600,000 homes.
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we're going to have more on the missing malaysian airlines flight later on in the program. but crime and punishment segment tonight, a busy day in the blade runner murder trial. oscar pistorius accused in the shooting death of his girlfriend reeva steenkamp. the pathologist who conducted the autopsy back on the witness stand today contradicting pistorius's account of when the couple went to bed hours before the shooting. a friend of pistorius a friend of pistorius also testified. robin curnow.
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>> reporter: a more composed defendant. but oscar pistorius sat mostly calm. it was a stark difference from the previous day when the olympian broke down, vomiting into a bucket and at times covering his ears as simon recounted in grisly detail the damage pistorius had done to reeva steenkamp's body with his hollow point bullets. the pathologist offered a critical contradictions to prison's version of events that fateful valentine's day. simon says evidence shows steenkamp ate no more than two hours before her death, but oscar pistorius says he and his girlfriend had dinner and were in bed a full five hours before that. under intense cross-examination, simon stood firm. >> the pathologist was a very compelling witness for the state. he stuck to his version of events. >> reporter: simon also says the amount of urine in steenkamp's bladder at the time of her death amounted to roughly a teaspoon. that could challenge pistorius
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who said his girlfriend had gotten up to use the bathroom in the middle of the night. remember pistorius says he shot her through the bathroom door, thinking she was an intruder. in another potential blow to the defense, simon testified the scream heard by neighbors could have been steenkamp, saying i think it would be somewhat abnormal if one did not scream when sustains a wound of this nature. but pistorius's defense team contends the scream came from the olympian, not his girlfriend, once he realized his mistake. darren frisco, a pistorius friend, testifying about a traffic stop, a re-enactment seen here in video played for the court in which frisco witnessed pistorius erupt at a police officer. >> then there was an altercation, a verbal altercation between the accused and the metro police officer. >> what was it about? >> the officer had picked up the accused weapon off the passenger seat, to which the accused had replied, you can't just touch
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another man's gun. >> reporter: it was an attempt by the prosecution to paint pistorius as a hot head. but international media coverage of the trial the court forbid. >> the state came out strong this morning. by the end of the day one has to say the defense were completely buoyant walking out of court. i think they feel they did very well with mr. frisco's testimony this afternoon. >> reporter: robyn kurnow, cnn at the pistorius trial in pray tore yeah, south africa. >> let's dig deeper now with a forensic scientist, also with us senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin. jeff did the prosecution score points today talking about the contents of her stomach, amount of urine in her bladder? >> i think they scored points every day. this has been a case that has gone very well for the prosecution. the prosecution has a story that this was a fight that this couple had, and he shot her in
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the bathroom in a fit of rage. that story fits with virtually every piece of evidence. the idea that he made a mistake and shot what he thought was an intruder, there really is not much evidence to support his view at this point. now, it's still relatively early in the trial. but i think by and large, pistorius is in a lot of trouble here. >> dr. kobalinski, contents of her stomach how significant is that? >> it is significant. because what the state has to do through the use of forensics is to determine whether his story makes sense or not. the fact of the matter is, when food is eaten it transits through the digestive tract in a certain time course. in about two hours in a human being you get that food converted to something called kime which then transitions do you know to the duodenum. a medical examiner can get a fairly good idea of the time she
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ate. it certainly is not consistent with oscar pistorius's story. >> do you agree with the prosecution witness saying it would be strange if reeva steenkamp did not scream when being shot? >> i would assume the last shot was to the head, inincapacitating her. certainly she has the capacity to scream if she was hit in the arm or in the hip she certainly could scream and probably would. >> if you have a woman screaming, if the judge who's the fact finder here believes that this scream came from the victim, that's almost the whole case here. because that establishes that pistorius had to know who he was shooting, not some intruder, that he was shooting his girlfriend. and so i think the issue of who screamed even less important when, but if it's a woman screaming i think that's -- >> to argue, to play devil's advocate here, in the heat of a moment in a gun fight you're shooting, your adrenaline is
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pumping. it's very possible you're not hearing things properly. >> it is possible. but i think it's a very critical piece of evidence. remember, he claims he walked over on his stumps to -- he had some time to think about this. if she's screaming, i just think his case is -- >> you don't believe the fact he wouldn't have checked the bed to see if his girlfriend -- >> absolutely. the basic fact of this case that he doesn't notice that his girlfriend is not there and he's shooting randomly at a stranger in the bathroom is a big problem. there's just one piece of forensic evidence, though, that i think we haven't heard that's going to be extremely important, which is what is the trajectory of the bullets. because his claim clearly is he was standing on his stumps when he was shooting. if the trajectory shows he was shooting from an angle where he was wearing his blades, that's bad. >> that should be relatively
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easy to determine -- >> absolutely. they have the door, they know where the entry of the bullets were, they have a trajectory, they have the position the victim is in. far more significant than who was yelling. >> right. thanks to both of you. we follow just ahead the agonizing wait for answers. tonight the families on board those on flight 370 trying to hold onto hope. and we are learning more about those on board the flight. we'll introduce you to some of the people on board. [ male announcer ] this is the cat that drank the milk... [ meows ]
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and you wouldn't be surprised if some other democrats in tough races this election year look at this and pulled back from the president at least on obamacare more than they are. this was an important election because of the makeup of this florida district. a third independent and a third republican and the third
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democrat. this gave the party is a sense of what it means to run a race in a clean district in this election year and they really were clear they were looking mostly at independence. they will be analyzing those in particular. all in all more than $11 million were spent on this race and what is my blogging about that number is it a race to fill a congressional seat for eight months. we will all be watching this swing district once again in november's midterm. >> thanks. we will be right back.
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rihanna with the families have endured excruciating and weight. we remember the missing and to wish their loved ones strength. four days and still more on the fate of the missing. the way his agonizing for the families. time is passing by, this father says, the priority should be the search for the lives. his son is among the missing. the families are visibly frustrated. demanding answers and compensation from malaysia airlines. the sarah lange representative said she will have answers tomorrow.
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the crowd shouts know, answer us now. they are seeking answers, the chief stored on the flight, his daughter sent a simple message, you are all over the news and papers, come home fast. she tweeted desk and wrote we are still waiting for you. temecula boys in austria wait for their father, he was traveling to mongolia for new job as an engineer. his wife told him he left behind his watch and his wedding ring before the trip in case anything happened to him on the flight. there are also from austria, a married couple on vacation on the flight disappeared. another couple on the missing flight, teenagers from france only 17 and 18 years old. they were believed to have been traveling with a mother and sister, this picture shows the pair with the words i love you in front. the search going to dave five, the grieving families continue to wait.
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but for some hope their loved ones may return safely, that help is hard to hold on to. thanks for watching. ♪ in his documentary "weed" -- >> you've looked at the evidence. >> there's real since out there. >> a year-long journey that changed what many of us thought about marijuana, myself included. >> i think we've been terribly and systematically misled. >> we used to only picture this. then we showed you this. medical marijuana treating seizures, pain, dozens of other ailments. >> charlotte is doing amazing, better and better each month. >> but we learned this wasn't the end of the story, it was just the beginning. >> i think we went from about 150 calls a month to over 4,000. >> there's still so many issues to be addressed. the federal government says