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tv   The Don Lemon Show  CNN  March 31, 2014 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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this is a cnn special report, the mystery of flight 370. i'm don lemon. the "wall street journal" reporting that poor communication led to three days of searching far from where the plane is believed to be. so are searchers in the right place tonight? we'll check on that. also is there a new flight path for mh-370 and was this a criminal act? we thought we knew the pilots last words. "all right, good night" were not the last recorded words but good night, malaysian 370.
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on day of 25 of the search and no sign of the plane, is it time for the u.s. to step in here? are we doing enough to aid in is search. we have top aviation and security experts standing by to answer your questions like this one, a large debris field but seen on multiple satellite images then search was abandoned in the area. why not go back? we'll look at how the best leads to date panned out later on in this show. i'm going to go right to cnn correspondents if for latest on this, for i'm going to start with kyung where the search is under way tonight. the wall street journal says that three days were lost looking in the wrong place. >> we are not privy to the
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information the authorities are getting. all we can do is take the prime minister's words on face value. that's the prime minister of australia. he was here at the air base yesterday and he was asked that exact question. how confident are you that you are looking in the right area. he is saying that now it has moved. now that these best minds on this investigation have looked at the best technical data available, that he believes that they are now looking in the right area. but that's what we were told the first time, that when the initial search happened that they thought they were looking in the right area. and they moved it and now they believe they are looking in the right area. >> we certainly hope so. and now we want to go to nic robertson in koala --
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>> we have heard about how families with relatives on the flight are frustrated and can't get answers to questions. one included a map they had drawn up. we were able to put that map to malaysian officials. this is how it turned out. >> this map of flight 370's radar track was much of the reason for upset by survivor families last week. the image captured in the briefing. it shows a different route and it is raising even more questions about what exactly happened to flight 370. questions the family members were unable to ask at the time. >> the family briefings were closed off. next?
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>> reporter: chinese relatives of flight 370 passengers say they created the map from publicly available data. beyond doubt, the new map, if accurate shows that someone with excellent flying skills was in control of the aircraft and no one would have felt the turn. it's a claim getting heavy pushback from malaysian officials. >> as regards to the issue of information been revealed to outside the press conference and speculation and diagrams in google or anything else in the internet, i cannot confirm or discard. i can only base on what i've informed you in my pieces. >> reporter: investigation officials insist privately this new map is not theirs, that it doesn't match malaysian radar readings. despite refusing to comment publicly, malaysian officials
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did say all the radar data is central to their investigation. >> the manner of the air traffic control at the time of the aircraft make an air turn back is one of the very important criteria for the investigators to look at. >> reporter: in a background briefing, malaysian investigators told cnn that they believed flight mh-370, whoever was flying it had a thorough knowledge of the aircraft. and was a criminal act by one of the two pilots or someone else on board. >> nick, why do investigators there continue to believe that this was a criminal act? >> reporter: it's based on the flight path, it appears, during
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that turn, whether it is this big arc or other information that malaysian officials have, that doesn't appear to indicate that the plane went through some catastrophic malfunction, that it was, in fact, turned under careful control. someone with a thorough knowledge of the aircraft, excellent at controlling the aircraft, according a someone else. that's why somebody was in there turning it, knowing what they were doing, not responding to an emergency and therefore that's why they call it a criminal act, don. >> nic robertson, thank you. i want to get to jeffrey thomas now. he is the editor in chief of airlineratings.com. i want to ask you about nic's reporting. but first i want to ask you about a new report in the wall street journal that is saying poor coordination cost three crucial days do. you believe that aspect of the investigation was mishandled?
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>> look on the surface of it, yes, it does appear that way. it seems extraordinary that teams trying to work out where this airplane had gone were work independent of each other. this is not normally what would happen in a crash investigation, say, run by the ntsb in the united states. they would be bringing together all of the experts in various fields and saying, okay, here's the problem. how do we work it out? for teams to work independently of each other seems extraordinary hi. and three days, and that is three precious days that were lost. >> every moment is valuable here. and a possible new map possibly shows a new radar track for the flight. what do you make of that, geoffry? >> it's very interesting, don.
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and i believe this map the came from chinese relatives. it may well be they are privy to information from the chinese that we are not. and one of the things that keeps coming back to us here is that the authorities know more about this than we are told and it seems extraordinary that this plane could blunder its way through southeast asia, through some of the most heavily traveled corridors in the world for military and commercial aircraft, through malaysian air space, through singaporean air space and indonesian air space and not be tracked by military radar? that is beggar's belief that could happen. >> it is unbelievable. more new reporting here. at first we heard the last words were "all right, good night" now the malaysian ministry of
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transport says it was "good night, malaysian 370." what is the significance of this? >> first of all it is amazing it has taken three weeks to correct this. i mean, these air traffic control tapes are available immediately. the next morning. march the 8th, the morning of march the 8th they would have had these tapes available to them and know exactly what they said. to let this go for three weeks and not correct it. but the sign off is still not correct. it should have been malaysian 370 contact ho chi minh city, good night. the pilot should have repeated the instruction from air traffic control. that's the way that the communications work. you have to acknowledge your flight, you have to acknowledge your instruction to make sure
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you have it correct and the niceties of saying, good night, good day or whatever it is. so this signoff is still incorrect. >> someone with inexperience could have been the co-pilot. i want to get tonight's expert's take on all this. miles o'brien is a science correspondent for cnn news hour. jim tilmon is a cnn aviation expert. and president of the till mom mon group. jeff wise, contributor to slate. and an author. mary schiavo. and she also is an attorney that represents victims of transportation accidents. tim taylor is a president of tiburon sea services. thank you all for joining us
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this evening. miles, before i get to the question about nic's reporting. geoffry said it was supposed to be the pilot's official language. does it sound to you that maybe there was someone less experienced here? >> you know, late at night on a quiet radio frequency, sometimes you forget to read back the radio transmission. so i think -- i don't think we should read too much into it. if we had the transcript and the full context of the last call that might tell us something. >> what do you make of nic robertson's new reporting about the possible new flight path? >> if it's accurate is it a wide and meandering path. i think it doesn't square with the notion these were expert -- whoever was doing this was an
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expert. it was certainly all over the map. it was a wide turn but it's you can make a coordinated turn that the passengers won't feel in a small air space. the key is a coordinated turn where you use the aileron and the rudder. and it looks questionable to me. >> david,let follow up on what mary is talking about. what do you think? >> i don't have any idea where the map came from. it disregards any of the facts we know already and asserts facts we don't know exist. this path is based on speculation and innuendo. it's the concept of coming up with a conclusion or theory and placing the facts in place to support your conclusion or theory.
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i don't give it in credence at all. >> lead after lead turning up nothing but dead ends. my experts will dig deeper into this more and tell us what searchers have found and what the consequences have been true if it turned up anything. over one million hours of research. are inside are specific vitamins and minerals to help support your heart, brain and eyes. centrum silver. for the most amazing parts of you. we've always been] at the forefrontumman, of advanced electronics. providing technology to get more detail... ♪ detect hidden threats... ♪ see the whole picture...
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[ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. i'm glad i'm with you. this weekend away, was long over-due. be a weekender at hotels like conrad and hilton. book now at hiltonweekends.com tonight the search is back on after another lead hits a wall. listen to this tweet which raises an important point. any explanation to what happened to the 300 plus floating objects or the images pointing to location. are we back to square one?
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very good question. i want to follow up on some of the leads. first the 122 objects spotted by french satellites released on march 26. none of the objects spotted are now thought to be part of the plane. and the images from march 24th, 300 floating objects. what happened to be there the search area shifted 684 miles north. and more objects have been retrieved and none have been confirmed to be part of the missing plane. and yesterday four orange colored objects the most promising leads so far were discovered to be old fishing gear. david, all these leads had many people thinking that the plane had maybe been located.
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does this demonstrate just how daunting a task this search is and will continue to be for a while? >> it really is. and to have the confidence to give up on that lower search and move it up to where it is now, that says a lot about the team. they must have had a lot of confidence in the inmarsat data. i was disappointed about the objects we found in the south. i talked myself into thinking it was a wing. i was disappoint wed didn't see what those things were. although logically from the data they want to look some place else. >> every lead so far has come up empty. is this just trial and error from here on out? is there a better way to search? >> yes, is it trial and error. and there is a better way to search. what was disturbing last week is that the malaysian investigators
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stated that the air traffic control tapes and radar data and security recordings and tapes from the airport were sealed. it seems those are three crucial pieces of data that need to be released so as many minds and eyes as possible can search for it. the better way to do the search is to get the information out there. >> geoff, reading your latest piece it focuses on how we have zero tangible evidence about where this plane is. are you convince wed are looking in the right area? >> we, we don't know what the right area is. there's been a mismatch between what the authorities say and what their actions seem to portray their believes to be. when the prime minister of australia described it as a credible lead and then all of a
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sudden, they are just off somewhere else. you have to wonder how much sincerity is there when these tangible leads are described as such. and when you take the totality of the actual evidence, hard evidence that we have, that the plane is in the north, it's in the south, it's anywhere. we have none. even this inmarsat data that was so highly touted that the malaysian prime minister went in front of the world press and say that the families should give up hope their loved ones are alive. it's remarkable. they have been walking back from that. inmarsat has distances themselves. >> from that information. jim, you are not ruling out this plane could be on land, are you? >> no, i'm not ruling it out at all. and, i know what a puppet feels like now. we were in the south china sea
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and someone said, no no, no, no. and everybody rushes down there. and now it's north. so we all rush up there together. and it's as if we don't have even an inkling about where we really feel confident that this airplane might be. and i got to tell you, i still think we did not exhaust the search on land. it's that simple. >> tim, you know, he brings up a good point. four weeks in. how worried were you that the odds of solving this mystery are decreasing? >> if i was in vegas, i guarantee this is one of those mysteries. even when they find the debris. it's four weeks later. even the best modelers cannot work this debris back to an impact zone without more data. if the satellite information is incomplete or can't lead us there, this is going to be finding your way back this far out from the event, is going to
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be hard. if you take the tsunamis in japan and find trash on the west coast of the united states you know when the event happened and put in modeling. if we find debris we only have one end of the puzzle. it's going to be difficult. i can give you numbers that will astound you if you are interested. >> i am. but i want to get geoffry back in here. the malaysian prime minister coming to perth tomorrow, are officials more confident in their investigation at this point? >> the malaysian prime minister coming down here gives more credibility to the fact that the government's involved in this, the australian and british and malaysians do know more about this airplane than they are telling us. i believe they have more
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intelligence than they are telling us. it may be mired in politics and military defense posturing. but i'm absolutely convinced they do know broadly where this airplane is. and they are bringing in more resources so the malaysian prime minister coming down, i think, it adds credibility to we are look in the right place. >> all right. >> but going back to the satellite images we were talking about earlier, there's real question marks about the analysis of those images and the fact that some of those pieces of fuselage or wing were whitecaps on the water. i think questions have to be raised about the analysis. >> geoffry thomas, thank you. coming up. the united states often accused by critics for being the quote, unquote, world police. but if the u.s. can do more, should we step in? later, you would not believe
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the world watches malaysia as more leads hit more dead ends. jim sciutto has more. >> reporter: the u.s. navy is plying two p-8 poseidon aircrafts. they are some of the most
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advanced surveillance aircraft in the world. >> if there is wreckage to be found it would pick that up. >> reporter: the ships report back to the uss blue ridge. no surface ships are in the search area. but the navy has this towed pinger locator. it is en route to the search zone. it is designed to listen for the black box's pinging beacon. also on board, this autonomous underwater vehicle or uav which scans the ocean floor for debris. but it will only be useful once the investigators have identified a crash site and debris field. boeing, the u.s. national transportation safety board, the
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faa and the fbi are all assisting in the investigation. but is the united states with the world's largest military and an expansive fleet of spy satellites doing all we can. >> we are pride providing everything that the malaysian government has requested of us. >> that you haven't seen satellite imagery from the united states on cable and network tv doesn't mean we aren't sharing imagery as appropriate. we are. >> reporter: but other international hot spots are competing for u.s. satellite attention. >> most of our attention is focused on north korea, russia, china and ukraine. the competition for the resources if you are president, you is to weigh, do i focus on the ukrainian border or do i divert assets in this region.
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>> reporter: even with the best of military assets, time is running out. scouring the seabed may soon be the only hope if the black box's beacons go site. >> joining me now by phone is commander william marks from the uss blue ridge. can you bring us up to date on your operation? >> sure thing. thanks for having me. we launched our p-8 patrol aircraft for today just a little while ago. that's in transit out to the search area. we are flying pretty much every day. we are in a supporting role in this tremendous international coalition we have here. so we get our air tasks from the australians coordinating the search areas. but we did just launch our p-8
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flights for day. this area is much closer than the area last week. so the flight out there, probably about 2 hours or so. and that gives us almost five hours on station time for search area. and it's about two hours back. so we've had good luck with weather. and scheduling, so all the flights are working out. you know, unfortunately we haven't found any debris associated with aircraft wreckage. we see stuff every day. we can see things as small as trash or seaweed or even dolphins splashing out there in the water. we have a flight up in the air right now. that's on our aviation side. and also, as was mentioned our towed pinger locator in the blue fin 21 side-scan sonar are on the ocean shield and that got underway last night.
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the u.s. does seem to have its hands full around the world. joining me, michael grimm. i'm sure you were listening to the commander there. and you have heard in the story there about what would have to happen if we wanted to be more invested in this. with north korea, russia, china, ukraine, congressman grimm, how big of a priority is finding flight 370 for the united states? >> it's still a top priority. the united states is used to having our hands full. we are stressed. but you have to look at it in a larger geopolitical context. this is a tense region to begin with. with china doing what it has done in the past we have a lot invested in this region and allies, including australia. the commitment from the united states is as good as it can be. and it has to be. but there is no question we are looking at a lot of different hot spots throughout the world.
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no one is mentioning it, but iran racing towards nuclear weapon. the president and d.o.d. is looking at that. it's not just russia with ukraine massing forces, there are a lot of hot spots to worry about. but this is a crucial region, geopolitically speaking and it's tense to begin with. >> and some people wonder if it's enough. malaysian officials said today that they might ask the u.s. and others for other assets in this search. so do you believe the u.s. is doing everything? you said as good as it can be. but everything it can to help flight 370? >> i think they are doing everything they can in light of that we don't have specific data. if we had a specific region where we knew the plane went down we could amass more resources. but right now it's not the best use of resources until we have something more specific. this is a massive area to
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search. unfortunately we have had a lot of misinformation from the malaysian government. until it is narrowed down it will be difficult for the united states to expand the amount of resources we are willing to put forth right now considering everything else in the world. >> congressman, the last time we spoke you said the fbi is the most qualified to handle this investigation. has the fbi, in your opinion, been given enough investigative responsibility in this search? >> to be honest with you, i don't know. i'm not on the ground with the fbi down there, but they are without a doubt the best to handle this situation. they are used to dealing with multiagencies. this is what they do. and they are used to dealing with foreign governments. they are in the best position. however we have to remember, you have to look at this in context. this is a very tense region,
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geopolitically speaking. other countries are reticent to having the fbi giving them too much authority based on the nature of the region. china wants to put 50 more satellites in the air. no one has raised the specter and it may be premature, but the reality is if a 777 can go missing and sophisticated countries, include australia has no idea, obviously, there are some security lapses that many countries are looking at right now, even beyond finding this particular aircraft. they are wondering what other lapses are there? are there other things in the ocean or air they don't know about? it is a race now to play catch up. i think that also plays a factor in how much of a role the u.s. will be allowed to play in this region. >> and thus, the importance of this story. there are so many unknowns and so many lessons to be learned. congressman, thank you. we appreciate it. >> thank you.
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is it a race against the clock as the battery life of the black box is running on fumes. i'm back now with my experts. we have discussed how long it can last, 30 days, 40 days, we're not sure. tim i asked you an important
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question earlier. i said, four weeks in how worried are you that the odds of finding the plane are decreasing. you have numbers for us? >> if you can narrow this down. i spoke with david earlier tonight. and he was saying trying to narrow it down with the satellite data they may have some leads. but we are working with the auv. i have mapped 1800 square miles of ocean bottom with the same auv model, one size smaller. and it takes time. the auv. so we're looking at a 10,000-square-mile area. which is 100 miles by 100 miles. that is a fraction of what they're looking at. you are going to take 2 years of auv dives. that is 660-something days of auv dives. every dive is two days of
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weather or something with the ship. one operational day with the auv takes three operational days total. we are six years mapping a 10,000 square foot area with an auv. and that's just a broad-based picture. once you hit targets and you have to go down and investigate them closer with a higher frequency sonar at a lower altitude off the bottom. >> so basically what you're saying is it's going to take a long time and there will have to be patience involved. the families involved it is hard for them to be patient. and speaking of the families of everyone on board, miles, the pilot's daughter accusing a british paper of falsely quoting her as saying her father was disturbed before the flight? are the pilots being scapegoating?
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>> yes, in a word. and i think it's a shame that this kind of stuff exists. and i hope those of us at cnn, you know, refrain from doing this kind of thing. the pilots, the crew, have to be right near the top of the list, as targets of investigation. there's no question about it. they were in the cockpit at the controls. there is an awful lot of things that don't add up. but beyond that, you would put that -- couple that with all the other scenarios we have been talking about and put that in a list together. and to individually go after the pilots and their families, who are grieving, incidentally, and write things that turn out to be fiction i think is reprehensible. >> jim tilmon, i'm sure you heard the congressman. he said the countries in this part of the world, scrambling to
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figure out what really happened here. because important security issues here. that is very relevant. >> it's extremely relevant for every one of them, including the united states. you are going to find out where some weak points are in our security and other countries are looking at theirs. it's unbelievable that an airplane like this could actually fly around long enough to create all of this -- this misunderstanding, let us say, and not be detected. we don't know where it is. it's a huge airplane. and yet we don't know where it is and nobody seems to own up to it if they do know. >> thus, why this is so astounding, almost a month later and this is still breaking news and no one has any clues, no answers and no sign of that missing plane. it's mind boggling. the floating orange objects were
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lead yet, objects spotted by satellite found to be fishing equipment and garbage. floating objects in the ocean are common. ships often lose cargo in storms. returning now is talk about this is marcus erickson. one of the things this search has really revealed is that the ocean in this area is really full of garbage. and here's one of our viewers writes. in looking for flight 370, does it not alarm anyone else there is so much debris in the ocean. this area is notorious if this garbage, isn't it? >> it's surprising how much debris is there. it's a background of plastic waste from fishing gear to bottles and bags, single use products washing out to the sea. to find a lot of debris in the indian ocean and have it not be from the crash itself is not unlikely.
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>> what might you find there and how does it get there in such quantities? >> i brought a few things to show you what you might find. we have gone through all five subtropical gyres. there are five of these gyres. from the north pacific one thing we found about five years ago, right in the middle of nowhere was this case. if you were -- if you had a satellite image and you saw this, you might think this might be a seat cushion. you could confuse this debris for objects that came from the aircraft. but a lot of what's out there is the fishing gear. here's a net we found near easter island. that's from an expedition a few years back. here's a shoe. a child's shoe. here's an oil can, deterrent
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bottles of all kinds. they are really chewed up by marine life. now the fishing gear is pretty common. the fishing gear is designed to survive in those environments. you find a lot of fishing floats and nets. the smaller stuff, it begins to break down rather quickly. it will degrade by sunlight and by fish bites and consumed by other life. here is a handful of cigarette lighters pulled out of the stomachs of albatross. >> and a lot of floating plastic chairs from beach furniture that float into the ocean. and so the question is, for the sea crews searching for mh-370. is there a more efficient way to distinguish between what is trash and what could be plane parts. a lot is being done by eyesight?
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>> there really isn't. it's very difficult to tell, you know, what is any common household product. you mentioned chairs. when you walk on the beaches of oceans in the gyres it looks like a department store washed ashore. they sit in these gyres for years if not decades. to distinguish a seat cushion, for example or something from a luggage from the background material is very difficult. >> thank you, marcus, appreciate it. >> my pleasure. >> i want to get my experts reaction right now. those were just the small items. there is a lot of ocean junk in this part of the ocean. how challenging does this make finding this wreckage? >> i have been out there and
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found fishing nets like he explained with their own ecosystem that has evolved around them. fish live on them and create a little island floating around and they are driven together with the wind. and so it's amazing what you'll find. so the satellite images are going to show that. but it's still a lead and they need to chase it down. so you're looking for a plane that wrecked. it should be a large debris field somewhere. >> we are looking at images there of debris on the beach all coming from the ocean, washed up, first was on land and got in the ocean. if all we keep finding is trash on the top of the ocean, at what point does it focus on mapping the ocean floor? >> you have to wonder if there is no evidence on the surface of the ocean that the plane was there. it's difficult to imagine that plane landing at hundreds of miles an hour not breaking up, the stuff is going to spread around.
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we have people, as we have been hearing about, major assets deployed. we have fisherman and merchantmen going through the ocean and people on the beaches you expect to find these things turning up in ordinary people's hands. there was a firefighting bottle that turned up in the maldives and it went viral. >> there are a lot of things, like the carts that go up and down the row, those float and will stay floating. they are made out of a honeycomb structure that is sealed. which is a perfect flotation device. is it a sealed cell flotation device that could float for years. >> this is a question from philip.
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can a plane enter the water in such a manner that it leaves no debris. a lot of people have been asking that. do we know that now? >> i used to be an aviation history professor and we would find in researching planes from world war ii and older planes, occasionally they would remain on the ocean floor and lakes and bodies of water completely intact. but in modern times, not really. there are not many accidents where that happen. there are a few private smaller planes that land on the water and sink. there are small private planes where that has happened. it is possible. and the 777 is a tough plane. boeing built it to last, apparently. it's possible. unlikely, because if you are coming in to make a sully-style landing on the water with these
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high seas if you caught a wing you would cart wheel and it wouldn't be a smooth landing at all. >> what would the experts have liked to see done differently from the beginning of this investigation?
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i'm back now with my experts. and i want to get your final thoughts on this point. is there one thing you would have liked to see happen at the beginning of this investigation
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that would dramatically change where we are today? miles? >> the malaysians said we cannot handle the investigation and turned it of to the australians. >> they should have done daily briefings from the beginning and said what they could and what they couldn't. >> they didn't know anything at the beginning. but right now they need to release the inmarsat data. >> jim tilmon? >> radar. using the radar that they have and letting us know what it sees from the very, very beginning of this thing right up to today. >> mary? >> the joint task force it's a great idea and brings in all the nations. they should have set it up on day one. >> and tim taylor? >> leadership transparency. >> that simple. i got it all in in one minute. very good. always appreciate you bringing the best information and your expertise on this, very valuable.
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that's it for us tonight. "ac360" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

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