right now, narrowing down the search area. investigators are, quote, confident they are closing in on the plane's black boxes. right now, she was the face of the obamacare botched rollout. now kathleen sebelius is walking away. close call for hillary

clinton. dodges a show thrown by a protester. her reaction. that's coming up next hour. hello, i'm wolf blitzer reporting from washington. crews are closing in on the black boxes from malaysia airlines flight 370. that's the word today from australia's prime minister. prime minister tony abbott says officials are, quote, very confident the signals that have been detected are from the plane's black boxes. he says the challenge is to get as much information as possible before the batteries die and the signals end. investigators say a fifth ping is probably not from the ping. it was picked up friday by a device dropped in the ocean from an airline. four earlier signals were detected by a u.s. pinger located towed by an australian ship. there's been no letup in the broader search for debris floating on the surface. planes and ships are involved. 13 ships, 15 aircraft. they're assigned to today's search alone.

we're covering this story like only cnn can. let's get the very latest, live from our correspondents in the region, michael holmes is standing by in perth, australia. nic robertson is joining us from kuala lumpur in malaysia. at one point, the australian prime minister said crews were within kilometers, kilometers, of finding the black boxes. others you're speaking with there as confident as tony abbott appears to be? >> he's narrowed it down more than anyone has so far. that phrase "win kilometers." we've heard optimism, as we've reported over recent days, from the man leading the search, air chief marshal angus houston. he reported he was also optimistic in his words that the wreckage would be found. certainly with the four pings we had since last saturday, the sort of confirmed pings, if you like, that are suggesting of the black boxes. the search area for the wreckage

has shrunk dramatically. and it is so much smaller than it was, just a matter of days ago. whether it is a few kilometers or whether it is 20 or 30 square kilometers or even more, no real certainty on that. certainly with those four ping, and also the arrival there of that british naval ship, the "hms echo," which can look at the bottom of the ocean as well and send out its own ping, down to the surface, to see if there's any wreckage down there. there's optimism here they will find the wreckage. the complicater is this silt we have discussed in the past on the bottom of the ocean floor, which could be many, many, many meters deep. if the black box separated from the wreckage and plummeted down all that way, 2 1/2 miles, to the bottom it could have buried itself very deeply in that silt. getting it out, once those pings stop coming, is going to be a very difficult task, finding out exactly where it is.

it's dark down there. if it's in deep sit, it's going to be a tough task. wolf. >> the fifth ping we talked about so much over the last 24 hours, that now seems to be not something coming from one of those two black boxes, something else, right? >> yes, that of course the first four pings came from the ocean shield vessel towing that u.s. navy ping locator. this other thought to be ping or possible ping came from sonobuoys dropped from aircraft, dropped down about 1,000 feet, and listen in as well. they got that data back to a research area in addlaid, in south australia. they decided that is not a ping from a black box. these other four pings they're very confident are. they're the ones they're working on. wolf. >> michael holmes in perth, thank you. malaysia airlines has put some new security procedures in place since the disappearance of flight 370.

some key members are deeply upset over these new rules. what are their concerns? let's bring in nic robertson. he's joining us from kuala lump lumpur. what are you hearing? >> well, wolf, we're talking to crew members here, and what they are telling us is they've been asked by the airlines to provide additional security on board the aircraft. they've been told to provide additional security around the cockpit. that is, if any -- in either of the pilots come out to go to the bathroom or for whatever reason, they need to provide additional security outside the cockpit. block the way of passengers who might want to go in. if either of the pilot or the co-pilot leaves the cockpit, a seni senior person from the cabin must go take his place. we're being told by the cabin members over the past year or so they've seen their hours increased, they're short staffed, people have left the

company. they're saying they're not trained for these new security measures. this is stretching them too far. they don't believe they're adequately able to fulfill this new security role that malaysian airlines has asked them to do, and are wondering why the airline isn't providing air marshals, security to people who are trained to do the function they're being requested to do. the airline is saying it is instituting security procedures, aircraft procedures, that are familiar across many airlines around the world. so the airlines say they are taking the right measure and the right steps. so this is what -- this is what we're hearing. and it's -- and it is something that is giving great cause for concern for the cabin staff at the moment, wolf. >> what are you hearing, nick, from the family members of the 370 crew?

>> they are concerned. said they're not getting the full briefings that other passengers, that the passengers' family members are given. they've been told explicitly by malaysian airlines they're not allowed to attend the briefings government officials have given to passengers' family members. they say the information they're getting is nothing more than in the public domain and they feel the airline isn't properly supporting them. now, the airline says it's sparing no expense to look after the families of flight 370, and that they're going out of their way to do all they can to help them. the air crews we've talked to really don't get that sense, don't feel that at this time, so there does seem to be a disconnect, a growing disconnect these days, between the crew and the airline itself, wolf. >> all right, nick, thank you.

nic robertson in kuala lumpur. joining us, sonar expert arnold par. the australian prime minister says he's, quote, confident the signals, the four signals detected from the flight 370 black boxes are, in fact, signals coming from those black boxes. are you confident he's right? >> i can't say i'm confident. i'm very hopeful. things are looking good for an number of reasons. that being there are repeated signals being derived from the pingers. granted, they seem to be weakening. that's important, where you can repeat something. i won't be confident until we have verification. verification doesn't necessarily mean you need a camera on side looking at some recognized piece from the aircraft. i would be confident with the verification through sonar of a debris field that resembles the plane and hopefully that debris field will be a relatively

intact airplane. something like at least the tail and the wings. the tail being important because that's where the black boxes are. >> you're confident they're right -- that fifth ping had nothing to do with the plane, right? >> i wouldn't say confident on that. again, i'm hopeful. it is the right signal. frequency. and the pulse rate is -- makes me very hopeful that, indeed, it's a pinger from the black boxes. >> the first four pings that were detected, one lasting for about two hours, one for 15 minutes, the third and fourth, five or six minutes each, they had a frequency slightly less than the 37.5 kilohertz and it lasted a little bit, tiny little bit more than one second each. are those significant changes or are they the real thing? >> i wouldn't say they're significant. that may have helped really to

have the ships zero in on a closer spot to where the pingers would be. i've seen pings from 37 1/2 kilohertz go on a sidescan sonar of 5,500 kilohertz. i've seen those pings where we could vector in using that very different signal. >> arnold carr, thanks very much for your expertise. >> you're welcome. coming up, ukrainian authorities offer a deal to pro-russian protesters if they walk away. i'll have more on that. also, more on the malaysian airlines mystery. could crews be within miles of finding the two black boxes from flight 370? australia's prime minister says yes. we'll ask our experts. ♪ ♪ [ female announcer ] with five perfectly sweetened whole grains...

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australia's prime minister says crews are within some kilometers, his words, some kilometers of finding the two black boxes from malaysian airlines flight 370, but officials warn there's still a long way to go in the search. mark weiss is a cnn aviation analyst, former pilot for american airlines. peter gohls is a former ntsb managing director. tom fuentes, our cnn law enforcement analyst, former fbi assistant director. you agree, mark, with this prime minister's analysis, that they are only a few kilometers away from finding these black boxes? >> the prime minister's a politician. i think he wants to take that role and certainly try to encourage the people whose families were on the airliplanen that respect. i'm still a little skeptical of

how close they are. >> if they found, peter, four pings they believe came from those two black boxes, one lasting two hours, almost exactly the precise frequency, one lasting 15 minutes, the last two, 5 and 6 minutes each. if they found those, that's pretty good evidence that the prime minister is right. >> i think they are close. they've got one problem with the four ping s in that one of them was 17 miles away. if you drop that one off and zero in on the three, drop the outlier, you may have a manageable -- >> what if they're coming from two different boxes and the two boxes are 17 miles away from each other? >> i think i'd zero in on the three and go for what you've got. >> is that enough, three pings, let's say, for them to really get a specific location? >> well, we're hoping. we're hearing it's going to take a long time at the bottom if that's the best they get. but, you know, when he says he's optimistic where he's zeroing in, don't forget the size of the indian ocean we started with. in terms of that, by comparison -- >> you're not surprised that

fifth prince, deekted it by another. you're not surprised that the fifth ping, detected by another means, would turn out to be false? >> no, that one was -- get that one out of the mix. >> get rid of that one right away. so the big search is still on the surface. they haven't found any debris, anything from the cabin or any place else. but they're searching an area roughly, what, they say the side of new hampshire and vermont combined. but the search under water is tiny compared to that. that's where they're looking for what emanated those pings. >> that's correct. if they don't get a ping over the next couple of days, then they're going to have to drop the side-scanning sonar down, and that's tedious, but it will give us a picture of the bottom. >> they're not giving up by any means. the u.s. navy sending a supply ship in, food, water, other supplies, to keep this operation going. which says to you this could go on for a while. >> absolutely, they're not giving up. they won't give up any time

soon. >> we've heard a lot about sensitive information, secret information that may be helping that they don't want to discuss for reasons that it could undermine u.s. sources and methods or other country's sources and methods. it wasn't just blind luck that they heard those pings. you buy that? >> from the very beginning, i think we were always questioning whether or not there were extra resources in there. and assets that they didn't want to disclose for that very reason. >> yes, makes sense to me. what about you? >> yes it does, i mean, i think we had assets there that were classified. it's given us some information. as you indicated, the hard work is just starting. >> so you think they may be very close to finding those two black boxes? you heard michael holmes say they're concerned about silt at the bottom. those black boxes are at the bottom, you know, three or four miles deep underwater and they landed in five or six feet of silt, you might never find those black boxes. >> right, but they're hoping it

didn't sink in the silt -- >> if the pinger battery is dead what good is that? >> well, mean, if the pinger was on the surface, at the bottom, i should say, of the silt, and give a signal, then maybe the box was sitting on top of the silt as opposed to in the silt. >> eight men and women are taxed with solving one of the greatest mysteries in modern aviation. what specialists on board the australian ship, what they're up against in this around the clock hunt for flight 370. and the health and human services secretary resigns. the director of office of management and budget steps up to the place. i have low testosterone. there, i said it.

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for many months, kathleen sebelius was the public case of the botched rollout of obamacare. now she's resigning her position as secretary of health and human services. the replacement was responsible for sending out the shutdown order to federal agencies last fall. for more on this, i'm joined by our chief congressional correspondent dana bash and our senior political analyst david gergen is joining us from cambridge, massachusetts. a lot of folks or critics are asking, dana, why has it taken so long since she was in charge of the department of health and human services october 1st when that healthcare.gov rollout was totally botched. >> i've been talking to democratic sources inside the administration on capitol hill and elsewhere. i got a couple of different interesting answers to that. first of all, the more

republicans called for her to resign, the more that the administration -- democrats said constitutionally they got their back up and they said no, we're going to keep her. another reason i got from somebody who sort of has an idea of what went on in there is they decided maybe it's better to dance with the devil that you know, and she actually certainly was in charge of this whole rollout which was botched, but she also, because of that, really did -- was knee deep in how to fix it, because she went back and looked at it. so they wanted to keep her on for that reason. the other answer, obvious, which is here we are, the end of the signup period is done. they have gotten through the 7.5 million people signed up. and they feel like this is a good time for her to leave. >> it is a good time in the sense that, david, 7.5 million people signed up. the goal over the six months from october 1st until the end

of march was 7 million. they got more than that. they still have another week or so left for people to sign up. if they had tried earlier, couldn't log on or whatever, they still have another week. that number could go -- could go higher. so she is leaving on a high note, even though she was there at the beginning when it was a disaster, october 1st. >> right. well, she's leaving with the turnaround. it is clear when she began talking to the president well over a month ago, they mapped this out so she could have time, she could have a victory and go on. i don't want to strain history too much but you'll remember, lincoln, with the emancipation prom problem la i m proclamation, he decided earlier but he waited to announce it. i think that's sort of what happened here. i think by doing it in the spring -- by fall and the elections, health care will still be a major issue in the elections, but she will not be. they've depersonalized this. they'll put somebody else in there. they'll have a chance to maybe make a couple more strides.

>> the key will be what happens over the next several months. you worked with silvia matthews burwell when she was just silvia matthews in the clinton white house. tell us a little bit about her. >> well, she's a very fine human being. she's a first-class person and a high-octane public servant. i think she's one of the best public servants in the country. when i met sylvia, she was young, she grew up in west virginia. homeschooled, as i recall. went off to harvard. won a rhodes scholarship from west virginia. linked up with the clinton administration with bob rubin. she was his chief of staff. very highly regarded by everyone who worked with her. it was not a surprise when she landed a big job with the gates foundation. i think that, wolf, when i was -- when they were looking for a new person to run the gates foundation three years ago, sylvia's name was prominently mentioned but it was felt she was a little young for it still. but the next turnaround, they

would do it. then the walmart foundation hired her. she went down to arkansas. very dedicated to working with, you know, people who have been left behind. as the walmart foundation does. and then came back up to help run -- well, to run the office of management and budget. she's not a publicity seeker. but she'll handle herself very well in the hearings i think. list listen, anybody who can stand up to questioning from bill gates can stand up to congress. >> she has no problem getting confirmed under the new rules. they can't filibuster her nomination, right, dana? >> right, under the new rules, any administration nominee can go through with 51, a simple majority. >> the democrats have 55. >> the democrats have 55. certainly there are democrats, 2014-ers, who are up for re-election, who will be looked at to say, you know, are you going to use this as a way to separate yourself from the administration. just because she personally is going to likely be okay, she was

confirmed for her current post unanimously overwhelmingly, which doesn't happen a lot in these times, they're already talking to republican sources. they're chomping at the bit. they're saying they're absolutely going to use this process to talk as much as possible about obamacare because that's what they're focused in on the election. they'd rather, to david's point, do it now, in the spring, get this out the way, talk about it for a week or two and then move on. >> obviously, fight and kick and scream, but they don't have the votes under the new rules, so she'll be confirmed. none of those democrats, whether any of those up in the red states who are up for re-election -- hard to imagine. >> she'll be confirmed. coming up later, why it's being called the worst security hole the internet has ever seen and what you should do to protect yourself. no one's more focused on the hunt nor flight 370 than a small group of specialists on board an australian ship.

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[ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk. welcome back. i'm wolf blitzer reporting from washington. australia's prime minister is optimistic as the search for malaysian airlines flight 370 moves into day 36. prime minister tony abbott says officials are very confident,

his words, very confident, the signals that have been detected are, indeed, from the plane's two black boxes. he says the challenge is to get as much information as possible before the signals end. investigators say a fifth ping is probably not from the plane. it was picked up thursday by a device dropped in the ocean from an airline before earlier signals were detected by a u.s. pinger locator towed by an australian ship. there's been no letup in the search for debris from the plane. looking at the surface, 13 ships, 15 aircraft, they're assigned to today's search. more now on what australia's prime minister is saying about the search. he spoke earlier today in shanghai. >> we have very much narrowed down the search area. we're very confident that the signals we're detecting are from the black box on 370. i really don't want to say anymore than that because i want to get the most up to date

briefing between now and my meeting with president xi later today and as a sign of respect to china and its people and in particular the 154 chinese victims and their families, i would like to save any more detail for the briefing with president xi later today. i want to say how honored i am -- we're now getting to the stage where the signal from what we are very confident is the black boxes is starting to fade. and we are hoping to get as much information as we can before the signal finally expires. >> the wait of the search of the missing malaysian airliner is resting on the shoulders of the 30-member crew manning the ocean shield. to the families of the 239 people on board flight 370, the

australian ship represents a chance at what some believe could be closure. for others, it's simply the best chance of finding one of the greatest mysteries in modern aviation history. our brian todd is here for more on what's going on. the specialists aboard the ship, walk us through what's going on now. >> we've gotten some good access to the people of phoenix international, the makers of the towed p eed pinger locator. they're also, nine of them, are on board the ocean shield now and they're also the detection specialists. they're the ones listening for the pings. it is painstaking work. they have to have a finely trained ear, a finely trained eye. not only are they listening for hours on end, they're also looking at monitors that have these blips on them that can show them the frequency of a ping, the consistency of a ping. a lot of the time they're listening in total silence for hours. it's been described as tedious,

meticulous. i asked one of the people at phoenix international, does it drive them stir crazy? he said, yeah, it can do that. they look forward to meal time because it breaks up the monotony. we're cringing on everything these guys are listening to. >> what kind of rotation schedule do they have? how long can they basically keep it up? >> they're working 12-hour shifts on board the ocean shield. one shift goes from midnight to noon. the other one goes from noon to midnight. who knows, it's indefinite. they've been out there since march 31st. imagine that, wolf, 12 hours a day, and you're just doing nothing but listening. most of the time in silence. europe just hearing nothing but you're blocking out everything else. could you sit there for 12 hours and just hear nothing -- >> no. >> and look at a monitor? >> i admire these people who can. obviously, as you point out, this is incredibly important -- >> very important. >> and those batteries are quickly, quickly dying, if they haven't died already. they might not be hearing nothing anymore. they'll work on those pings from the original location and

hopefully they'll find something. thank you very much. we'll have much more on flight 370 coming up. also, other news we're following, including hillary clinton, taking a shoe-throughing incident in stride. what happened? wow. and as protesters continue to march in ukraine, i'll speak with the u.s. congressman, a member of the house intelligence committee, who's been there. what he says the united states needs to do.

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right now, there's growing tension over the crisis in ukraine. u.s.-guided missile destroyer is now in the black sea. the arrival, part of a military effort to demonstrate support for the ally. it comes as nato releases the photographs of 40,000 russian

troops stationed near the ukraine border. acording to nato, those troops are ready for combat. russia's top prosecutor says he sees no reason to extradite the ousted ukrainian president yanukovych to kiev. ukrainian authorities are telling pro-russian protesters they won't be prosecuted. if they leeave the buildings they're occupying in some of those cities. what's the next move for the united states, the next move for the obama administration? joining us now is congressman adam schiff of california. you were just there a few days ago. so where's this thing going? >> hard to say. clearly, russia is prepared to invade. whether they will use the pretext of some manufactured protests in the eastern part of ukraine as a reason to invade, we don't know. certainly, they're prepared.

some of what they're doing looks like it's for show. other parts of what they're doing looks like they're very much ready to invade. i think we will do well to help ukraine prepare if that happens. >> tell me what you're recommending as far as u.s. action to deal with a situation like that. >> i'm recommending a couple things. first, that we assist ukraine with intelligence information, military consultation, so they know what they're up against. >> what about hardware? >> we, i don't think are in a position to help ukraine in a struggle with russia. >> what about defensive positioning? >> i think that's more likely to provide an es clatsing with russia than providing more information that would be valuable to them, provided the time line. also forward deploy some of our military assets to nato countries in the region. they're very concerned we won't come to their defense. >> there are treaty obligations. if poland or lithuania -- the

u.s., like all nato countries, are obligobliged, if anyattacke >> that's right exactly right, under the nato agreement. >> you think putin would consider attacking a nato ally? >> i don't think so. i know, because i was in lithuania a few days ago as well, they're desperately concerned, and they want a greater nato presence. they lived under soviet domination. think we ought to reassure them, as well as send a message to russia that, you know, we're prepared to draw a line. >> reviving that missile defense shield, is that something you support? >> the missile defense shield reportedly was more about iran than about russia. i'm not sure it makes sense to revisit that. certainly i think we ought to take steps either through naval assets, air assets or on the ground to strengthen our presence in the nato countries in the region and finally, wolf, i think the sanctions need to be strengthened. and europe has to be prepared. the preparation ought to be undertaken now to impose

sectorwide sanctions if there's a further russian incursion in ukraine. >> they're dependent on russian energy exports, oil, to western europe, eastern europe, germany. >> you're absolutely right, and this will be difficult and painful for eastern europe and western europe. at the end of the day, they've got to ask how much is sovereignty worth. how much is it worth to stand up to russia. they have the most at stake. i think we need to be really working with them now, stealing them for some tough decisions that will need to be made if russia invades. because unless we can raise the cost for that kind of escalation, provocation, violation of international law, i think we encourage russia to do it in other places. >> adam schiff, thanks. it could be the biggest sign security crisis ever. why you need to make some changes to your accounts right now. also, it's now day 36. of what might be the greatest mystery in modern aviation. a panel of experts joins us.

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the longer the search for flight 370 goes on, the more the questions are piling up. let's bring back our, experts. aviation analyst mark weiss. peter gohlz. our cnn analyst tom fuentes. stephen writes this, tom, for

you, who should be first to open and read the data from the planes black box if it's recovered? >> thei think the malaysians ha made it clear they own the box, they're going to be responsible. they've admitted to not having the expertise. so they're certainly going to have experts do it. whether it's going to be the australians and the ntsb together and examine it in australia, that's a good chance, but they're going to decide who does it. they're not going to do it themselves. >> jay writes, how much pressure can the black boxes withstand if they're on the ocean floor? could they be destroyed by the pressure? >> they're rated to go down to at least 20,000 feet. so the boxes are okay at 14,000 feet. >> which is what -- >> these are heavily armored, heavily insulated. if we get them back, we'll be able to read them. >> charles asks, if the plane dipped, then went back to cruising altitude, what happens to the shortness of the fuel burn? >> well, charles, what you're going to do is at a lower altitude, you're going to burn a

lot more fuel than you would at cruise altitude. the difference you would recover is going to be very different than you would at cruise altitude. >> this is for tom, from michael, the last communication from mh-370 was spoken by the pilot. were all previous communication from him as well? >> we don't know that. >> why don't they tell us? >> i don't know why. most people say it really doesn't make a difference. the captain runs the ship. he could have said to the co-pilot, why don't you take off, i'll handle the radio. he had just been approved by his check pilot, essentially promoted into the position as a qualified pilot. he may have asked the co-pilot to fly and the captain took the radio all the way through. >> we would love to know who was doing most of the talking. if they release an audiotape so we can all hear it. it's not con fa deny chul or anything at this point. could deep silt in the wreckage

area hamper images of debris? >> it could. it's going to -- it could be very challenging for smaller pieces. and the remote vehicle has to be very careful in deep silt. because even the slightest bit of propulsion from it can stir up the silt. it's going to be a painstaking task once they identify the wreckage and once they start to get into it. it's >> this question is a good one for you. what would the passengers have seen at 4,000 feet at 1:00 a.m. would they have any idea the flight went that low? >> depending on the time of day that it would have been at 4,000 feet. 1:00 in the morning? they would only see the terrain outside and wonder what the heck was going on. >> they would see water. but in the middle of the night? >> depending on what kind of lighting would have been outside. and whether there was a moon available.

>> that's a good point. here's another question from rick for peter. if malaysia scrambles their planes, why do they then have a three-day sar effort to a gulf of thailand? >> that's one of the great questions. my understanding is the government has denied scrambling any jets but in retrospect we're going to look very carefully at the opening weeks and first week on whether the correct information passed on to get the job done or were agencies held back? >> we're getting reports that the left hand of the malaysian government apparently wasn't talking to the right hand. >> another issue is if they

scrabbled jets and they went south looking for the plane and found nothing, then they would have to go back and say maybe we were wrong and we still need to look. i think they were kind of forced to look at what is the most logical area. >> mark, we got this one from ken. why don't we have digital pingers that would identify it from being from a specific aircraft? >> what a great idea that would be. and hopefully it will be having a unique identify ier, absolute. >> there are a lot of take aways. as usual, thank you very much. thank you all of you. hillary clinton maybe used to

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>> a quick check on wall street right now. looking at the big board. you see the dow down 116 points. worse than expected earnings appeared to trigger the sell-off. some are calling it the worst security hull. it's called the heartbleed bug and has a lot of sites eagerly scrambling to patch it. it could affect everything from your banking to gmail. you can go cnn.com for a list of

sites that have been fixed. >> and a federal appeals court ruled against sea world. sea world was appealing citations issued by osha. osha restricted how humans interact with killer whales. the concerns about killer whales in captivity was the focus of the documentary black fish and included the trainer's death in 2010. >> hillary clinton hads spend a lot of time dodging questions but as briann shows us, secretary clinton was judging more than just questions. what was that? a bat? was that a bat? is that somebody throwing somebody at me? is that part of cirque de

de soliel? >> this was hillary clinton making jokes after a woman hurled a shoe at her. the hurler was immediately subdued and taken into custody. it's not the first time objects have been thrown at a politician. an iraqi journalist chucked not one but two shoes and protesters in egypt happened. >> thank goodness they play softball like i do. >> perhaps a memoir. not shoes but questions, cnn washington.

>> that's it for me. i'm wolf blitzer in washington. i will be back in the situation room. newsroom starts in 60 seconds.

>> hello everyone, don lemon. it is fast becoming a day of flip-flops. we have been told that every passenger has been cleared but today in an interview with sky news, there was an explosive revelation. this is still a criminal investigation and everyone on board remains under suspicion. a complete turn