time jim shuuto in washington. thanks for joining me. see you soon, sir. you're in the "cnn newsroom." i'm am don lemon. day 37 in the hunt for flight 370, despite no trace of the plane now both the u.s. navy and australian prime minister confident they are hearing pings from the plane's black boxes. >> there have been numerous, numerous transmissions recorded, which gives us the high degree of confidence that this is the black box from the missing flight. >> unwavering confidence, despite the fact that the men heading up the search, on the information i have available to

me there has been no major brockthrough in the search for mh-370. confused messages from the australians but not as confusing it's a what's coming occupy malaysia. for weeks told every passenger is cleared of suspicious involvement in the plane's disappearance. the malaysian defense minister contradicted this saying this is still a criminal investigation, and "everyone onboard remains under suspicious at it stands. a complete turnaround with no explanation why we were told otherwise." let's get to our panel of experts. miles o'brien, mike's kaye, retired british royal air force pilot and aviation and 777 captain les aubin and david gallo and i want to start with this malaysia response first. start with you, miles. how do we know what to believe coming out of the malaysian government? why can't they get on the same page here? >> i have no idea why they can't

get on the same page but can tell you i'm skeptical of everything they say. cleared the back side of are the cockpit door in a eweek's time and now implicated everybody as a suspect kind of randomly is a perfect example of a pattern. so the question is, are they really investigating the patterns from the cabin crew or not? just saying so because there was pressure and they indicated they cleared them in a way that was so clear that it didn't pass the smell test? i think that, you know, in is is not surprising. this has been a consistent pattern for an investigation that's been confused and not well coordinated. and face it, an unprecedented investigation in general and the best and brightest in this business would have a hard time dealing with. >> sky news is quoting the defense minister saying everyone

onboard this plane still remain as sauce spect. there's a quote there. this flies in the face of what the malaysian police say, the passengers cleared. the question is, was that too early to through out? and too early to rule anybody out now? >> it's disappointing's we went through the process a couple weeks ago of malaysia declaring an independent investigation in charge, effecting delegation of some of the key aspects from worthiness, operations, the human factor and medical side. i was hoping once that process had occurred malaysia was accepting that it couldn't and didn't have all of the facets available to deal with this. i was kind of hoping that the other five countries involved, u knktsuk, u.s., france, china, h that would influence the quality and continuity of information coming out of the investigation from the lead, malaysia. clearly it hasn't. if i was those other five countries i'd be trying to rally

around malaysia saying, you can't keep putting out inconsistent of information. >> trying to immolate what angus houston is doing with the search? right? the australian prime minister is saying one thing but angus houston has been in charge of the search and he's saying, listen, there's nothing new, regardless of what everyone else is saying. >> i think the malaysian government is trying to leave the door open. this is not my area of expertise, but that's the way it sounds. >> i want to switch gears a little and australia's prime minister says he is highly confident, but families are losing optimism. listen to what the mother of one of the passengers told cnn. here it is. >> i have to see, my own eyes. then i can believe it. i have to see. my heart, inside, my heart is telling still they are alive. all the passengers are alive. >> david gallo, you know, you've led searches in oceans and deal

a lot with investigations. in an investigation, how important is transparency? >> in the air france case it was a criminal investigation from the get-go and the french were very tight with information coming out, and a lot of confused information and seemingly contradictory information, but later on it was whatever went out, it was all consistent. and i think that's important, is consistency. and sure they can't know everything. but you have to know that there's progress being made, and the most important thing is you need to know that you can trust the people that are involved in trying to find your loved ones. >> especially the families. right? right. trying to find loved ones. >> especially. >> all in agreement? yeah. they need to get on one page. >> i think, don, the poor lady, and i can't imagine what she's going through. got to see it to believe it, effective to what angus houston is saying. says from the outset he's got to see a sort of evidence, wreckage floor, on the ocean floor to believe it. consistency with that. >> thank you.

it's been 37 days and no sign of malaysian airlines flight 370. what happens if the search comes up empty? my panel will discuss. that's next. discover card. hey there, i just got my bill, and i see that it includes my fico® credit score... is that new? yup, you have our discover it card, so you get your fico® score on every statement. and, it's free. that's pretty cool of you guys. well, we just want to help you stay on top of your credit and avoid surprises. good. i hate surprises. surprise! whoa. is it your birthday? yep. cheers. at discover, we treat you like you'd treat you. free fico® credit score. get the it card at discover.com. ♪ led to the one jobhing you always wanted. at university of phoenix, we believe every education- not just ours-

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when the australian prime minister comes forward and says he's very, very confident that this is the plane, that's there, that we will find it within a few days if that promise turns out to not bear fruit, then i think we have to start asking some questions. not only, okay, where is the plane? but also, how much trust have we invested in these authorities who have assured us that they know what the situation is, and yet their previous assurances have come up empty? >> 37 days since a huge jet airliner disappeared along with 239 people onboard. we have heard so many theories. it's changed daily. what happened if the severance for malaysia airlines flipt 370 comes up empty? what if searchers are not even

close and the remnant of flight 370 are far, far away? i want to bring back my panel. michael, to you first. australia's prime minister says he is confident. a word he used. so what happens if there is, they can't -- the pings run out? they can't get the black boxes and don't find anything for two weeks? what happens if -- nothing? >> where in a hazy part of the investigation at the moment, where we have been concentrating on hopefully getting some sort of progress through identifying the senate from the pings and the black boxes, but in getting to that place, i think we've got it reset and just look at how phenomenal that analysis has been in terms of the inmarsat guys with the air accident investigation branch from the uk. the analysis, down to the southern arc. that took a finite amount of time to get there but pushes on the outer limit of the black box batteries. so we got there. personally i was absolutely flabbergasted we got four pings when we did, bearing in mind we

been found the haystack and were going straight in on the needle. what we've done so far is phenomenal, unprecedented. and we're in a transition, ang it houston has a judgment call. when you put down the auvs that gets in the way of the ping locator and getting in the way of the sound and detection and everything else. you can't do both at the same time. so the ping locator looking for the ping -- >> that's what they're waiting for. >> that's the just call. i said from the outcome, the judgment call, it will go or fon at least to the outer limits when we think the battery might last. ho d 40 days. >> i want to ask david gallo. ocean explorer, people who have led searches like you have, even found 447. even the "titanic" saying, how can anybody be confident that they heard pings from a black box right now? i just don't understand how they can say that, because it is -- it's such a tenuous situation, especially when you're looking for sound in the ocean. the ocean can play tricks on

you? >> yeah. and i think part of the issue there as many of these people i've uk taed to thalked to them too. we've put instruments, dropped them off the side of a ship with a pinger attached, to call them back and find them later on. many times they don't come back. even though we know it's right beneath the ship. so i do understand where the skepticism comes from. we've got to have faith in this case. and these sound pretty solid. i don't know what else could have that frequency and be in that position. you know, i don't know what more we could ask for except now comes the search. we've gone the enough out of trying to triangular. now comes the bottom search. >> you don't think they need to dial back the optimism? you're optimistic with them? >> i've asked many, if tomorrow breaking news, weren't from the black boxes and almost everyone says, no, they wouldn't be

surprised. i find that disheartening. especially for the families. i'm sticking with this that those are the pingers from the plaque boxes. especially the first two hits. they seemed pretty credible, and let's go have a look. i mean, i don't know where else we go with this. it's so important, it is so important, to have faith in those people out at sea and the people doing the research now, because inside the box, those -- inside those rooms, those people are exhausted and i'm sure there's plenty of self-doubt back inside the rooms. they need support from the outside. we're operating on very little information, things we generate online, social media. they have the actual tools. i don't think i'd let my boss stand up there and say these are definitely from the black boxes unless i was really damn sure they were from the blacks boxes. it's going to take the search. get in the water and find out. >> good point. producers, there's your sound bite. damn sure it's them. i want to ask you that, saying

this week the flight 370, it went as low as 4,000 feet to avoid radar, a move that would burn fuel at a faster rate. if malaysia's altitude claim is true, are searchers way off the mark right now? >> i don't think so. the difference between 12,000 versus 4,000, i really don't think so. i would repeat what david gallo said, the investigation is an ep and flow process. you lose confidence, gain it back, depending on, we all want this progress to occur a lot quicker. but in answer to your question, i don't think so. the problem is, the malaysian government, seems to come out with conflicting information about this radar date pa. i don't know what to believe. where it went. over to malaysia? north of the indonesian peninsula? come back down? a lot of it doesn't make sense. >> it was cka calculated in com math. some slamming the british satellite company for keeping that raw data secret.

should sha satellite data be made public so other scientists can check the work? michael? >> absolutely shouldn't. they should be allowed to conduct this investigation with the privacy it requires, because people speculate otherwise. but i would say, it's not just the inmarsat information that's being used to corroborate the search operation area. also assumptions, which we're using. those assumptions are embarrassed on what speed the aircraft traveled as it came down south of sumatra into the search area. and depending on that combination, that depends on the fuel burn, how much fuel onboard, give us endurance and therefore its dins distance. i'm assuming the area they're look at, base and hard numbers. that's where they've come to where they're at. it's kind of been kwauber ai co by a couple of pings. i'd like to reverse engineering go back up the track and look at

what's been going on at this point across the malaysian peninsula and try and ator tain more information when the transponder last pinged to see what happened there. that would give us or feed those assumptions on height and speed and maybe give more accurate information down south. >> is miles still there? i don't want to leave anybody out of the panel? no miles. okay. is miles there? miles is not there. david gallo, what do you make of what mike's kaye is saying? sort of wants to do a reverse of the information we've gotten from inmarsat. maybe that and the information with the pings, and that that will's pras lep to, i don't know, solidify, even hone in on the search area even better? >> it's important. in air france, one powerful thing. a last known position. the lkp. sat as a map on my wall two years. that lkp. it's the centerpiece for the search that we built on top of that. and, in fact, you know, mathematics, that first phase, out there for the first year,

out there for two months, and we were led to a, a place in the northwest quadrant of our search zone. where there was no aircraft. done by mathematical models, tret retrodrift and it was horrible. a case we had gone back over and over the models. the modelers were 90% positive the plane was in the box and no plain was anywhere near that box. i'm totally with michael kaye on this. >> are you flabbergasted by this, having taken part in a number of investigations? i would imagine everyone, as the whole world is, but some people who have actually searched for airplanes and have seen airplanes, you know, go missing or crash, saying, it's know so surprising, but what's surprising, that this one completely disappeared from radar. 30-some, almost 30 d40 days in nothing, david. nothing? >> well, you know -- hmm. you've got to have a lot of faith, again, in the people at sea and the people running this

in angus houston's -- that they're doing all they can do to speed this along. even though sometimes i stare at the ships on my laptop as often as i can wondering what in the world is going on out there? but i know stuff is going on out there. itic tas patience and you have to remember, air france 447, it was two years from the tragedy until the time we actually found that wreckage. we weren't at sea two years were ut it took a long, long time, and those poor families, the agony they went through. you know, it's just a horrible thing. it's one thing if this is just a a -- a real mystery about the missing plane, but it's about 239 passengers missing and their loved ones and family add friend. >> absolutely. right on the mark with that. i don't know if you remember in the beginning, richard kwefques went back and forth because one of the investigators, someone like a david gallo said, we're expecting this to happen overnight and keep looking for every single little bit and it takes the average investigation takes 3.5 years to complete. the average search takes maybe 2

years to complete and everyone's wondering, why haven't we seen something in days? maybe part of the problem is us. >> it's true. i mean, this is the mystery of the century. >> certainly is. >> that's the who el thing. >> he we are talking about it. much more straight ahead. first a developing story for you. gunman seized two buildings in ukraine. the escalating crisis and the conscious choices facing russia, next.

getting back to our malaysia air plooins flight kov match in a moment. breaking news out of ukraine. the white house wasting lift tile in responding to the reports of violence in eastern ukraine. vice president joe biden will travel to kiev april 22nd to meet with government leaders and other groups. here's part of the white house statement, the vice president will discuss the latest developments in eastern ukraine where pro-russian separatists with the support moscow continuing a state to destabilize the ukrainian state. the latest from nick paton walsh in ukraine. >> reporter: don, a troubles escalation here in the last 24 hours. we've been traveling around d

done. sk. very well equipped and armed men, often in matching camouflage uniforms getting help from locals who give them food and put up barricades and aggressive towards many western journalists and at another town, luhansk, taking down the flag from that town and put up a spreadist one instead. calm police, seeming to be able to co-exist. later on in the day, reports of gunfire and interior ministry claiming pro-russian militia exchanged fire with ukrainian police there as well. deep concerns now. wee seem to be seeing weapons more readily involved in the standoff here in dan itin dane.. and the central government is struggling to work out what to

did and not seeing many police here really coming out to stop these pro-militants. new developments in the wild standoff between federal agents and a are supporters of a cattle rancher, a group of people carrying weapons gathered at interstate 15 year the ranch forcing the closure of the northbound lanes, and earlier the u.s. bureau of land management ended a roundup of clyde bundy's cattle, which it claims had been illegally grazing on federal land. new information on that deadly bus crash in northern california to tell you about. witnesses tell our affiliate kovr the fedex tractor trailer truck was on fire before it slammed into the tour bus thursday carrying perspective students to visit humboldt university. ten dies in the crash. five high school students. 30 others were hurt. coming up, the new steps in the search for the missing plane. will the search size shrink for a sixth consecutive day? and when will investigators send

in the underwater drone to join the towed ping locator? up. a short word that's a tall order. up your game. up the ante. and if you stumble, you get back up. up isn't easy, and we ought to know. we're in the business of up. everyday delta flies a quarter of million people while investing billions improving everything from booking to baggage claim. we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we will up it yet again.

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marge: the tasty side of fiber. from phillips. the two words that sum ufr the search for malaysia airlines flight 370 this weekend, optimism and patience. australia's prime minister is the world leader close et to this mission. he says commanders feel good about the newest sound clues that they're getting from the ocean floor, but warns it could be a long time before we see any concrete results. one group of people whose patience ran out long ago, families of those who were onboard that plane. a group of families met again with aline and malaysian officials. the mother of a missing passenger is not happy. she says they keep telling her the same things. nothing useful.

well, these were the search planes as they returned from patrol late saturday in western australia. the report from all of them was the same again. they saw absolutely nothing. you know it is now dawn, sunday morning, in perth, australia. the headquarters of the search mission and cnn's michael holmes is stationed in that search area. with me, joe johns in kuala lumpur where the flight originated 37 days ago. michael, start with you. are planes again heading for the search areas yet? >> reporter: absolutely, don, as they have every day for now we're into week six. seems extraordinary. doesn't it? not a scrap of wreckage has been found in all that time. but more than a dozen planes are out and about today. they'll be out there searching from the skies and on the ocean. there are more than a dozen ships searching. two, of course nbc thin that ar where the pings were heard. the four pings the australian

prime minister and the head of the search, angus houston, believe are from the flight data recorders. the ocean shield still towing that ping locator on loan from the u.s. navy. also in that little tighter area, where they did get those pings, there's the british ship, the hms echo, which is an oceanographic ship, it has a two-mile wide beam, if you like that it can put down and try to get back information from the ground floor, and see if it can locate any wreckage. no luck so far. don, this is a very long and involved process, and isn't by far over. >> joe johns in kuala lumpur. if and when these black boxes are found, who will take custody of them and the get the information from them? >> reporter: well, it's pretty clear the malaysia government has the authority to at least lead the investigation, but they've already said they are going to need help. they are going to need expertise from other countries. the three we know that can

handle the job, the united states, the uk, and australia. malaysia has also shown a real tendency here for collaboration, to get a lot of other countries involved. as we've seen in the search, and we do know that they've been reaching out and trying to keep the country of china very much included in this process. so that's a possibility, too. but it's up to malaysia and they say they will look for an expert, don. >> michael and joe, appreciate you. thank you very much. deeper than where the "titan "titanic" rests, deeper than where you would find giant squid, next, hour search teams are handling the nearly three-mile depths of the southern indian ocean. born, we got a subaru. it's where she said her first word. (little girl) no! saw her first day of school. (little girl) bye bye! made a best friend forever. the back seat of my subaru is where she grew up. what?

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if we can locate the wremage and salvage the footage, phenomenal. i don't think we've ever started with such -- inexact information to identify where the aircraft went in the water. it certainly would be a miracle. so you heard it's finding flight 370 in the indian ocean will be a miracle and it's easy to see why the search area is massive. the terrain on the ocean floor is treacherous. as cnn's ed lavandera is about to explain, if searchers eventually pinpoint a location for the black box, finding it in such water would be difficult, in not downright impossible.

>> reporter: plunging to nearly 15,000 feet below sea level is a jurn sbi a mysterious abyss. a journey few humans can even comprehend. the boeing 777 is about 200 feet wide, 242 feet long and possibly so deep under the indian ocean you'd pass the statue of liberty, i eveiffel tower and tallest building in dubai on the way down and still be only a fraction of the way to where the plane rackage might be resting. and then the pinger locateder is well below that. 4,600 feet below the surface. this marine biologist says marine life is unlike everyone has ever seen. >> the deeper you go you find less and less. have to be very cold tolerant. moot n might not have eyes. >> reporter: keep going towards the ocean floor and at 12,500 feet below sea level, where

you'd find the wreckage of the "titanic" which took 70 years to discover and where it still rests today. if it were turned upside-down, 14,400 is where you'd hit the iconic peak of washington state's mt. rainier. even there, 14,800 feet into the abyss. if that doesn't capture the magnitude of this search, imagine what one oceanographer described for us. picture yourself standing on top of one of the highest peaks in the rocky mountains looking all the way down and trying to find a suitcase, in the dark. >> uh-oh. that's not good. >> got a lot of failures here. we got a problem. >> reporter: only a handful of people have traveled to these staggering depths or even beyond. one of them is movie director james cameron using a state-of-the-art vessel he dropped 35,000 feet or about seven miles to the deepest place on earth.

he's turning the scientific mission into a movie. >> it's that need to see what's there beyond the edge of your lights. to see the unknown for yourself. >> reporter: the pressure at nearly 15,000 feet is crushing, and very few manned submarines can withstand it. >> there are only half a dozen subs that can go to basically half the ocean depth, with a number of countries having that capability. it gets to the point of, of collapse. it basically implodes. it just crushes. >> reporter: finding the plane is daunting. bringing it back from the deep, even more difficult. ed lavandera, cnn. let's talk now about ocean silt. basically a thick layer of ooze coating the ocean floor. right now silt could be muffling any faint signals from the plane's black boxes. any wreckage from flight 370 could be sinking in silt. i want to bring in now cnn analyst david gallo of the woods

hole oceanographic institution. david, i've heard of conflicting information on this. i've heard some oceanographers saying, no. silt is not a problem. probably not governoring it yet. others say, yes. could silt be preventing searchers from finding the black boxes? >> it could play some role but i think there are other things. there could be gullies, canyons, boulders, all that stuff. i'm sure there's some silt there. s sediment. until we find out for sure, taking sediment of course, getting down there. i don't think we'll find something like quicksand that would suck up the boxes. i'd be surprised if we find that. >> the thing is, we don't know. we don't know what the ocean floor is like, where the black boxes presumably are. 's in a deep valley -- we just don't know until we get down there, and even if they do, you know -- if they do locate them in the right place and the ping,

we won't know what it's like until they get what those auvs in the water, right? to see it? >> sure. you know, don, these are depths and places, kinds of underwater ter rains th s thas that oceano are very familiar with. it's half the ocean depth. as we speak on the other side of us aly thattia, north of new zealand, a team is mobilizing to go between six and seven miles wery a robot and do exploring there. the depths aren't so intimidating. the terrain, i can see it because my thesis was spent poking around terrains like this. rocks on a sediment volcanic terrain. that's not intimidating either. trying to find the black boxes, a particular bit of a needle in that big haystack will be problematic and takes systematic mapping of that terrain. >> michael what did you want to add? >> i wanted to say that's actually one of the key

capabilities, why we're seeing the echo in the area. an ability to map out the high droggraphy of the actual area to get a sense of what the to be poggraphy is like under the water. canyons, gully, ditches, anything around there. that would give searchers and inkags of the type of topography they're looking in to see if they'll ping up pinging or not. >> a good chance the wreckage is holding on to the black boxes which could be the tail of the airplane. >> what is that? >> meaning they'll have to get through that structure in order to get to it. so which may help and both hinder the whole process of the underwater -- >> how much does that -- that doesn't really inhibit the sound, the echoing? >> not the sound, no. >> that doesn't do it? >> the actual picking, the physical picking of the actual boxes. >> that doesn't make a big difference, does it? the structure of the airplane being around it? just wondering. >> you know, down to nick picking, sure some difference, but really, no. not to the point where we won't

be able to find it because it's in something like that. i have to tell you, phoenix international, the group out there appropriating, superb at this thing. finding that pinger. if they need to, penetrate inside an aircraft and remove the black box. they're the best on the planet to do that. >> yeah. how much time do i have producers? i wanted to ask something else. i can ask in the next segment if i can't. okay. i want to ask. a great point from one of my senior producers in the booth is that we have been looking now, the last time we heard about any debris, especially david, was, what, a week ago saturday? and so far we haven't heard about debris, no spotting, no nothing. it's not it. i mean what is going on? >> yeah. that part mystifies me, don, where did all this ocean junk go? are we out of the -- with the layer of -- lawn chairs and things, balloons all that stuff. so are they just not reporting it? maybe they're just not reporting it. i do find that a bit strange.

that we're not hearing about it as much as we used to, and if it's going to wash up, because people are asking, how long before it washes up and with the current, i don't think it does wash up in australia. with the current, it may be africa or something that it washes up towards, africa? >> world war ii, a very famous australian war ship sunk, must closer to shore but sunk in that area by a german raider. it was a long time before they found any shred of that ship on the ocean surface, and it ended up thousands of miles to the north on christmas island. that part of the world certainly can play tricks, but i've got to say, apart from the pings, there's not a shred of evidence that says that that aircraft ended up in the ocean, and -- i'm not saying it couldn't. just there's no evidence. >> there's no other evidence. i know. we have been debating that, mike is not sure. i'm not sure where les stands on this. the last questions we just discussed, about the wreckage and all of that, the person to

ask. we'll ask him. he's coming up. more people have been to space and have explored the depths of the indian ocean. so are search teams ever going to find these black boxes? the technology being used. ndows. it has exactly what i need for half of what i thought i'd pay. and i don't need to be online for it to work. it runs office, so i can do schedules and budgets and even menu changes. but it's fun, too -- with touch, and tons of great apps for stuff like music, 'cause a good playlist is good for business. i need the boss's signature for this. i'm the boss. ♪ honestly ♪ i wanna see you be brave

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think of going. complete darkness. now are searchers going to find something as small as a mailbox? how the underwater vehicle, auv, finds things in the deep. >> reporter: this probe is the latest technology that could be used to find flight mh-370. using site scan sonar it searches for things that don't belong beneath the sea what is sightscan sonar? >> acoustic technology base and reflections of >> autonomous under water vehicle is gathering information to create a map of the seafloor. this time, it's the bottom of a massachusetts reservoir, but it could be the depths of the indian ocean. >> it consists of an electronic package which is inside the vehicle. it's basically a computer that

processes the data to make the pulse and to bring back the pulse and configure it into an image. >> it moves back and forth along the surface, but some auvs can dive deep into the ocean. sonar helps identify and find debris like the submerged car. >> once we identify the target, we did this cost pattern. if we zoom in here, we pull that sonar file, went to that location and got a better high-def image. >> in the case of flight 370 an auv could face on stobstaclobst. >> this rov uses the map to visit the location. >> that's correct. >> it's pretty choppy out here today so the visibility is quite reduced. >> in the depths of the indian ocean you would probably use

sonar at first, i would imagine, if the water is very deep and very dark. and then perhaps the camera? >> exactly. >> reporter: once it's there it uses a camera and claws to pick up debris, bringing critical evidence and hopefully answers to the surface. >> rosa florez joins me now live. what are some of the limitations of these auv snz. >> you know, don, it's very easy to get wrapped up on how fascinating these devices are, because they are. they're able to dive deep into the indian ocean and use side scan sonar to give us an image of the ocean floor. when you talk about some of the limitations we have to talk about speed. they're very slow. the one in particular that's in the indian ocean travels between 2 to 4.5 knots so it's very slow. you also have to think. so these are autonomous vehicles. they have batteries. so you are limited by the life of those batteries. the one in the indian ocean has a battery life of about 20

hours, so it can be out and about for about 20 hours. then the other thing is, is the deployment and the retrieval process of these auvs. remember, these are multi-million dollar pieces of equipment. they are very delicate, as well. so it takes time to both deploy and retrieve those devices. don? >> great report. thank you very much, rosa florez. we appreciate it. questions continue to pour in from our viewers about the mysterious fate of flight 370. up next, our panel of experts will tackle some of those questions. gets up to 795 highway miles per tank. salesperson #2: actually, we're throwing in a $1,000 fuel reward card. we've never done that. that's why there's never been a better time to buy a passat tdi clean diesel. husband: so it's like two deals in one? salesperson #2: exactly. avo: during the first ever volkswagen tdi clean diesel event, get a great deal on a passat tdi, that gets up to 795 highway miles per tank. and get a $1,000 fuel reward card. it's like two deals in one. hurry in and get a $1,000 fuel reward card and 0.9% apr for 60 months

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all right. time for questions. a lot of questions from you guys right now. our panel is back. david gallo, to you first. sarah wants to know, how long would it take for the plane to sink and how far would the drift be? >> well, hi, sarah.

certainly the drift depends on the current on the way down to the seafloor. i don't know exactly for an aircraft but i would imagine it's something on the order of ten minutes or something like that. minutes, not like an hour. >> okay. this is for michael kay. a question a lot of people are asking. it's from sheila. if they think they hear the black backes, why haven't they sint the bluefin to try to find them? what are they waiting for. they know it's the noise, but go ahead. >> yeah, i think what they know about the ping location works on strength. it doesn't geo locate. so if they're going along a seven-mile track what they have to do is identify the strength of the signal. they get close to where the black box is, the amplitude will increase. as it goes away, it will decrease. that doesn't geo locate where the black box is so they have to go around and come back and triangulate. effectively three to identify. we're not get that third ping pulse. that's kind of what issue is. they're not going to put the

auvs in until they've exhausted the batteries. as soon as they put those in you can't look for the pings. >> you don't want to get it confused an the auv, it may be similar. than the answer, they don't do it because of the noise. on the ships anyway, when they hear it they turn everything except for the power that they need on on the ship. everything off so they can listen for it. >> when the "echo" was out there that adds more complexity to the search because it can only work when the ping is pinging. it's complex. >> another one from mr. gallo. this is from paulette. paulette asks, is it possible to have a camera on the towed pinger locator so it can pictures of the ocean floor while it is trying to find the black box? >> yeah. that's a very good question, paulette. the issue there is that the tipl, the towed pinger locator,

is typically towed quite a ways off the seafloor and it doesn't go very far into the sea. it's one of the classic problems that we have. if you want to get a picture you've got to be close to the bottom. if you want to use sonar by listening or making a ping by the side scan sonar you've got to be well off the seafloor. you've got to do one or the other. we have done both and it's not a bad idea. >> let's go les. this one is coming -- people are wanting to know what happened in the cockpit. if pilots are both suddenly incapacitated in a catastrophic failure can other crew still get into the cockpit? >> i don't know how malaysia's cockpit door was configured but i can only assume the way they come out of the factory that there's a coated floor and the fight attendants would be able to get in through that coded door. >> it's coded. it's not like a key that you get into? >> correct. >> are they thinking about

making changes when it comes to that at all because, especially in light of this, what if this was a pilot who, you know -- yeah, there's smog industry wide that i've heard of. i mean, we're all waiting to see, you know, what the cause of this whole situation was. >> i want to ask you, you went back and did your real job, as you might say, you flew to london and back. are people talking about this? are pilots talking about this? >> very much so. we bantered a lot of things around and did a little review of the airplane and we went through a lot of the scenarios. it's still -- we're still scratching our heads. we all come up with different versions of scenarios, you know, from terrorism to a passenger going berserk to mechanical failure aspect to depressu depressurizati depressurization. every one of them still has holes in it. >> and tracking, what can you share about us about what you talk about, do you talk about tracking planes as you discuss this? >> we did to some extent but

most of the folks that fly are still in the same belief that i am, that radar is constantly with us in some form or the other and never quite far enough away from it where we couldn't be tracked or low enough to be tracked. we're just an obvious target out there. >> stand by, everyone. there we go. i'm don lemon. you're in the "cnn newsroom." we're at the top of the airline. we have to make very critical decision and do it soon, when to turn off the ears and start looking with eyes. we're talking about below the ocean floor, not on the surface. i'm talking about those pingers, those emergency beacons believed to be at the bottom of the indian ocean. if the batteries aren't dead already, they soon will be. a high-tech imaging sonar is the next school to start running when commanders decide to stop listening for those pings. it has been four days since the sound has been heard from the soep ocean in the search areas.