that's it for us tonight. that's it for us tonight. "ac360" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> it's 2:00 oa.m. on the east coast of the united states. new clinch glitches with the bluefin-21. new questions about why there is only one in the quarter and new questions about cell phone signals from the aircraft itself. is it remotely conceivable that the co-pilot's phone was the only one transmitting and do they have a plan "b" if the search comes up empty. a lot of questions tonight. a crucial 24 hours ahead. we have all the angles on that. the passengers on a sinking south korean ferry were told stay put, don't head for the lifeboats. hundreds are missing, many of them high school students. some of whom sent messages home as the ship went under. the race to see if anyone is

still alive. with tanks and troops rolling, we take you to ukraine for the latest on the moves to stop them. let's start with flight 370 and the bluefin-21. the breaking news tonight, and just back from a third mission, the first full outing after two others were cut short. so tell us about this third time under the water. >> third time's a charm, anderson. that's right. is it back. it's done a complete mission, the first complete mission. the other two missions the first cut short because of a fail safe mechanism in the bluefin that told it when it got to 4500 meters down to come back up. they fixed that problem and now it can go as far as 5,000 meters

down. the second problem was an oil leak. the searchers say it was no big deal and they fixed it and sent it back down. in all they covered 35 square miles of the ocean floor down there. and once they've downloaded this latest data they'll send it down again. >> in terms of analyzing the data no information about what they got or what they saw on this third trip, right? >> not yet. we -- they do tend to release it to us reasonably quickly. the first two said nothing of significance in the data. the first time they went down there, that is the area they really want to search and it was cut short because the bluefin thought it was too deep for it to go. what they did was move the hms echo which does its own sonar examination from the surface and they worked out that the depth

is about 4600 meters. they are going to send it down and go over that area again at some point. that's where the pings that were most promising were. >> the oil they collected near the "ocean shield" any word if it is from the plane in? >> not yet word on whether is it from the plane. we expect to hear something from a few hours from now. the "ocean shield" which picked up that sample is 1,000 miles off shore. what they did was sent an australian naval vessel out to the area until it was close enough for a helicopter to land and bring that sample. the ship headed to the shore until the helicopter could come ashore. that has taken a bit of time. but it is being analyzed as we speak. we hope to get information in the next few hours. the search from air and sea continues despite us being told it would be wound down this

week. >> late word just in from the u.s. navy which confirms the underwater search is happening in the area where a second ping was defected on saturday april 5th for 13 minutes. a significant length of time. let's dig deeper into the possibility in spice of the glitches with bluefin it would help to have more in the water. tom foreman has been exploring that angle. >> the effort above the water has involved dozens of planes and ships going back and forth why not apply that same thing below the water? we have been talking about how this bluefin will go back and forth mapping the bottom with a sonic signal. we call it mowing the grass. why not add another or maybe five or ten or 20 of them? why not have them all work together. if that's the case couldn't you get it done faster than weeks or

months? not really. and here's why. there is a question of availability. there are only 100 of these in the world right now. and this one is being used and costs $3.5 million. to get them all assembled you have governments and research organizations and businesses around the world willing to commit these resources for an indefinite period of time. secondly you need support for all of these. each one would require a team of experts who know how to program it, operate it, launch it, retrieve it, get the data off it. it weighs 1700 pounds, just putting in the water and retrieving it is like putting a small automobile in and out. that's not easy. and last of all there is the issue we come back to. we talk about this as if is it a billiard table. coordinating that is hard enough. but the real terrain may be more like this. we may have hills and valleys

and problems that complicate the ability of these things to coordinate with each other on different plains going up and down and in and out. all of that makes this seemingly good idea maybe one that is completely unworkable. >> there is recognition that this current phase of the operation may not last long before experts decide to try something different. tony abbott saying as much today. we believe that search will be completed within a week or so going on to say if the current search turns up nothing we won't abandon it we will move to a different phase. how is the current operation is going and what is plan "b"? richard quest is with us and david gallo. also former transportation department inspector general mary schiavo and jeffrey thomas

joins us from australia. and what about the australian prime minister saying they will regroup and reconsider. what does that mean? >> if you haven't found anything in the area where you were most promising to find something, and houston basically said it's around the strong -- the ping that gave the strongest signal which we now know this evening was the second ping. if you haven't found anything in that vicinity you've got to really seriously question is it worth keeping going to the first and the third and the fourth? and that's when you have to rethink the strategy. >> jeffrey you are taubilking t source there. is there really a plan "b" here? >> look, i think there's a very strong conviction that where they are looking right now is where the airplane is. that's the undercurrent that i get to the number of people that i speak to on this issue.

plan "b," they're talking about if it's deeper than the 4500 meters they will have to get other submersibles that can go down deeper. this is the final resting place of the aircraft, as far as the plan "b" is concerned other than going deeper if we need to, i'm not sure what that plan "b" might be. because they're pretty certain it's where they're look. >> geoffry do you know how confident they are that they know what the terrain is like, you know, this deep? because clearly, you know, on day one of this mission with the bluefin-21 it was deeper in a pocket than they anticipated. >> look, that's one thing they are confident about and they are confident that they don't know what it's quite like down there. and that's why they are talking about a plan "b" that we may

have to go much deeper. this area of the indian ocean. my understanding from local oceanographers that it is the least explored part of the ocean anywhere in the world. it just has not been mapd properly at all. the depths are estimates in many case. this is where the plan "b" comes in. >> and david gallo, it's a good thing for an investigator to admit when they don't know. >> i spoke with colleagues before i came in tonight. there is very little -- bathometric about this part of the ocean. >> in day and age we know more about the surface of the moon than the depth of the ocean. it's not mapped out. >> we have a general feeling for where the big lumps and bumps

are but where that vehicle is living and worrying about pinnacles and gullies and things like that there is little information. >> is there an effort or a drive to the that? >> ocean scientists have been pushing for a long time we need to explore the ocean. we have explored about 7% of the deep ocean. >> that's it? >> that's most of the planet. and when we go there. >> that's crazy. >> we find the highest mountains and deepest valleys, water falls and rivers and lakes under water. but we are not getting the attention to how important this is. >> mary what generally happens in a search like this. it's australian's call to make about a possible next phase? >> i assume they have to do that in conjunction with malaysia. it's malaysia's investigation to control.

so i think that australia will make a recommendation and malaysia will concur or disagree. but if the first efforts don't pan out i think they will explore the areas of the pings and fan out more. we heard the information about the acoustic tricks of the ocean that some of the signals can travel further than the three miles from the ping. i think they will exhaust all the pings before going to plan "b." >> i'm getting tweets about this. why not have more bluefins in the water? >> the plan to me -- you have to have the right technology. they do. bluefin-21, an auv. a right team. a talented team and the right plan. the plan they've chosen is they've said we have the pinger. that's the spot. we are going to throw the dart right into the bulls-eye. no need to go to a broad area

search using multiple vehicles which you need many more people andport to pull that off. that may be plan "b" but it's too soon in the process to go to think about that yet. >> and that's something that houston said when he first announced that they were going down at the weekend. angus houston, the head of the search committee or the search organization. he basically said -- he was asked again and again what do you do if you don't find anything. he said we are a long ways away from that. he estimates six weeks to a couple months to search the area they identified. i don't know why tony abbott is putting it in a week. houston is talking about a couple of months for this phase of the operation. >> it's a long term. we're in it for the long haul. >> we have a full hour including president obama's new warning in a show down with russia.

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ping was detected. it was detected for 13 minutes. the reason that is the most promising is because of its quality is the word they used. the details like many others have been coming like clock work we get them every day from australian authorities. in the search for answer, information has been harder to come by. just as pamela brown worked to pin it down but she did not stop there. >> the bottom line this is a tiny piece of the puzzle and experts and sources are trying to figure out what this information about the co-pilot cell phone really means. what we do know here is that if any of the passenger phones were on and not in airplane mode they should have dinged that cell phone tower as well. and considering 30% of people forget to turn off their phones it's likely not just the co-pilot's phone. but the co-pilot's phone should have been off. so the question of course looms was it on from the beginning of

the flight or turned on before it hit that cell tower? and i want to make it clear here, sources saying there is no indication any calls were placed and just because a phone connects with a cell tower doesn't mean that a call can go through and it is tough the get the answers and information we need to know exactly what all of this means. >> any information from the cell phones could aid the overall investigation. >> yeah, right. it could. if certain factors become clear like the phone was turned off and turned back on. but investigators are not jumping up and down over this include. they have known about the data detection but it does not tell us a motive or who was alive on board that aircraft. it is not leading to the answers we are looking for here. in many ways, folks are sitting

on their hands for that black box to provide the proof of what happened on flight 370. >> yeah, pamela, thanks very much. back with our panel. this is a dumb question. but i question or david gallo, is there value in retrieving cell phones from the depth? >> i have been meaning to check on that. but it's all part of the -- if there are clues to be had it's worth doing. >> it's interesting that the bluefin has searched 90 square kilometers. that is a small area. >> it takes it six times as long to search the same area that could be searched in a day by the towed ping locator. and that was why they were determined to exhaust this tpl to the last possible second because they knew this was a

very slow process. but they do believe they've far road it. the word they used is manageable. it's not desirable but this area is manageable given time, patience, and effort. >> i keep hearing people refer to the air france investigation and that underwater search and using that two-year figure. i used it early on thinking it took two years to find. but a lot of that was getting permissions and convincing people and dealing with bureaucracies and getting permission to go on site. days searching with vehicles underwater, how long? >> we were there ten weeks and eight weeks we spent in the wrong hay stack. the drift of debris led us to an area where we had no aircraft. then it was eight days. >> eight days? that's incredible. so i mean, if although you were

using three vehicles at the time. >> that's right. >> can you extrapolate to this. if they are in the right area and only have one vehicle that we're not looking at six weeks or six months? >> it could be to cover the whole area. we're not looking for just an aircraft but maybe a debris field it could be something as simple as a plastic cup. it may go by must faster. >> do you think there is debris on the surface of the ocean? >> i have to come back to the hmas sydney that sank in world war ii. it was gone without a trace. >> so mary, as an attorney for victims of transportation accidents and their families what is an open ended and unresolved investigation mean for litigation? >> they would be litigating under the montreal treaty and it would be against the airline.

the airline's going to be responsible for their passengers unless the airline can prove it took all reasonable measures to prevent what happened. of course it's impossible for them to show that because it could be mechanical. it could be a breech of security. the airline is responsible for the passengers. if they find anything else usually they do a complete settlement or litigation. a few may wait until and hold back on just a potential of finding something mechanical wrong but the airline will be responsible. >> what does this do to the industry? >> it goes to the very core. the international organization has established and set up an extraordinary meeting to be held in next month in may in montreal, where they will be looking at lessons to be learned. the airport forum, they will be

discussing it at their annual general meeting in june. let nobody be in any doubt, this is going to change the way planes fly, the way data is handed and the way aircraft is tracked. >> just as every crash and incident like this has had an impact on the industry. >> this will be much greater. quite often you change minor technicality on the aircraft a procedure or form of crm management in the cockpit. this will be industry wide across all different aircraft and fundamental. the issue will be how long before the nation's can agree on a course of action. they are slow and tedious and it can be very bureaucratic. >> mary, do you agree with that? this is going to have a historic impact? >> well, i think what is going to happen is that nations are going to do it one by one and

one of the biggest problems is going to be the united states. it's so difficult to get the faa to act because when they propose new regulations and they don't need an act of congress. the faa can propose regulations like this. when they do it the lobbying effort on the hill is immense from transportation lobbyists to prevent expenditures. in the aircraft control system they made available $7 billion in loans to help get this done. and still they are complaining about expense. the faa needs to be the leader to get this done worldwide and they need a lot of pressure and congress cannot cave. if they cave it is all over. >> and passengers are now more educated and informed about what is going on in the aircraft than ever before. i certainly feel like i know more than i ever knew before. coming up, what happens next when the black boxes are found? we'll show you the remotely

operated vehicles that are able to retrieve wreckage from incredible depth. remarkable technology to show you. and another search going on. an active search for hundreds of people missing after a south korean ferry boat capsizes. authorities told people to stay where they were and not go to the lifeboats.

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and it's uncharted territory at such depths. stephanie elam has more on how this works. so take us through it, stephanie. how does the technology work? >> anderson it's really interesting. it sounds simple when is it explained to us. this is james coleman. and your show sonars are being used. how does it work? >> this is a multibeam sonar. this sonar emits sound and as that sound bounces off of the sea floor the sonar receives that sound and uses the reflection to build an image. >> is it easier to do deeper in or higher up? >> the imagery comes out good when you are deep. you have a stable platform and

the imagery can be crisp. the challenge is getting that sonar down deep. you have to put it on a vehicle and that vehicle has other integrated components. >> let's see what the data looks like when you get an image of the sound. that's what you are doing here, right? >> we have been building up a map over the course of the day. we are going back and forth. here's where we are now and we will add to the map as we go. we are able to see where we are and reconstruct the plan on the fly based on what we see. in the indian ocean they are doing pre-planned missions and have to use their best estimate of what is down there to generate the grid. >> and the side-scan sonar imagery looks weird. explain how it works. >> what the sensor is doing is putting sound out and travels through the water and hits the sea floor and continues on.

that generates an image of the sea floor. >> it's interesting. the closer down they get the better the image. but the higher up the more they can see what is under them. >> are they getting realtime images or just data they have to look at later? and also the fact that there is silt down there could that make it harder to identify? >> the first one i think definitely that's a james question. >> they are not getting realtime images. we are able to do that here on the boat. but they put that vehicle down a long time. not only do they have to wait for the vehicle to come back up but they have to download the data and go through it. if something is buried you will not see it on the sonar. but there likely will be a

crater or something. >> there will be an indication even after these few weeks. >> if the search teams find the black boxes, the next challenge is bring it to the surface. that's no easy task particularly at this depth. what they're going to use is a remotely operated vehicle, a r.o.v. there are two in maryland right now. the company operating them has to send them out within four hours of getting the call they are needed. rosa flores has more on the technology. >> this could be the key to solving the mystery of flight 370. it's a remotely operated vehicle or r.o.v., for short. once wreckage of flight 370 is identified an r.o.v. like this

one is likely the next crucial step in finding the plane's black box. it's controlled from the surface using this joy stick. has lights to illuminate the stark black of the ocean deep. cameras transmitting back footage in realtime. and high frequency sonar to combat the notoriously difficult visibility in the area of the indian ocean where the plane is believed to be. but most importantly, the r.o.v. has robotic arms called manipulators. >> has jaws that you can open and close. >> they are essentially mechanical hands able to retrieve objects from the ocean floor. >> extend and retract. >> a second manipulator can be equipped with tools for cutting through metal. >> it would be ideal if there is

a black box, not a problem for an r.o.v. to recover it back to the vessel. >> top priority for the investigators is to retrieve the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder. this r.o.v. can go to depths of around 10,000 feet but the r.o.v. that is brought to the wreckage of flight 370 could have to withstand the pressure of around 15,000 feet of water. underwater pulses were detected at that depth last week. and unlike the bluefin searchers are currently using, the r.o.v. is connected to the boat through a line called an umbilical and has a constant power source and can feed back information immediately. >> it can stay submerged for days. >> reporter: and the hope is that the r.o.v. will finally

manage to bring some answers to the surface. rosa flores, cnn. >> amazing stuff. breaking news on the race to find hundreds of missing ferry passengers in south korea. they were told apparently to stay in their seats instead of going to the lifeboats. also where the search for steve foss it's plane went wrong. defiance is in our bones. defiance never grows old. citracal maximum. calcium citrate plus d. little things, anyone can do. it steals your memories. your independence. insures support. a breakthrough. and sooner than you'd like... ...sooner than you think. ...you die from alzheimer's disease. ...we cure alzheimer's disease.

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if we can't offer faster speeds or save you money we'll give you $150. comcast business built for business. the search officials are convinced in their words that the sonar signals are from the black boxes of flight 370. but the bluefin-21 has come back to the surface twice without confirming anything. in more than one month a search has not turned up a single piece of debris. the families of the missing are not convinced that they are ser searching in the right place. >> reporter: it's september 2007, steve fossett takes off from the flying m ranch in nevada.

he promises to be back for lunch but that's the last anyone sees of him. >> the best way to characterize this is looking for a needle in a hay stack. this is 10,000 square miles. >> reporter: within hours a desperate search is underway. the terrain is rugged. the wilderness between western nevada and eastern california is vast. >> did that plane have the equivalent of a black box? >> it has an elt that can be picked up by satellites. >> reporter: radar picks up the plane's track following a trail that fossett hiked as a teenager. >> before they could pursue this evidence they were distracted by another piece of evidence that popped up which was a visual sighting out in the desert. that was tempting. wherever someone sees an airline

people put credence in that. >> a ranch hand says that the plane flew over him as he was standing on his porch. he says the plane was flying low at 1,000 feet. the tip changes everything. >> it was terribly distracting and they never looked at the previous evidence they had. they focused everything on this piece. >> the search area shifts dramatically from the mountains about 60 miles northeast to the desert. the search continues for months, still no sign of steve fossett or his airplane. that is, until a hiker finds some of fossett's personal belongings. it's now october 2008, more than a year after he disappeared. >> i came across the i.d. card and the other cards and the 100 dollar bills in the dirt and the pine needles and stuff.

i went wow. we put it altogether. it is that fossett guy. >> these items are in the heart of the original search area, the mountains. the search teams quickly change their focus once again. >> just about the time we were going to call off the search the aircraft from yosemite national park spotted what they thought was wreckage on the ground. >> reporter: it is fossett's plane right along the original radar track. the very spot in play before authorities shifted their attention to the desert based on a so-called hot tip from a ranch hand. >> they probably could have found him relatively quickly if they followed up on the evidence they had very early on in the search. >> reporter: instead of the plane being located in just days, the search lasted over a year and cost millions. randy kaye, cnn new york. next breaking news in the search for hundreds of

passengers missing in the icy water off south korea. and president obama sends a public message to vladimir putin. cut! [bell rings] this...is jane. her long day on set starts with shoulder pain... ...and a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for...

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breaking news in south korea where it is thursday morning and

a desperate search to find survivors in the sinking of a passenger ferry. the ship rolled on to its side by the time the coast guard arrived. an army of boats moved in to pluck the survivors from the water. hundreds of high schoolers were on board. it is not known how many of them are among the 300 people unaccounted for. seven are confirmed dead and 179 have been rescued. some passengers were ordered to stay where they were. >> stay put. kept announcing it ten times. so kids were forced to stay put. only those who moved survived. >> this is the only part of the ferry sticking out of the water. paul hancocks joins us now. what is the latest paula? >> reporter: 289 people are

still missing. many of them are high school students and many [ inaudible ] some of the search and rescue operation is being launched from. we saw an hour ago civilian divers involved in the search. anybody who can get involved and add expertise to find survivors is doing so. all day rescue helicopters and boats rushed to the scene as panic stricken passengers clung to life some holding on to the capsized ferry and others in the water. more than 160 have been rescued. tonight divers are searching for 300 people still missing. officials say hundreds were on board the south korean ferry bound for a resort island off the southwest coast of korea. most of them high school students on a field trip. this cell phone video claimed to be taken inside the sinking

ferry shows passengers in life vests taking cover. raising questions about how the crew handled the incident. >> don't move. if you move is it more dangerous. don't move. >> reporter: some passengers say they were given conflicting instructions over the p.a. system. >> we were told to stay where you are so we kept saying but later on, the water level came up. so we were beside ourselves. kids were screaming out of terror, shouting for help. >> reporter: the ferry tilted to one side and sunk within two hours of the first call. investigators don't know why it went down. >> translator: people screamed on the ship and it tilted and people came sliding down. >> reporter: tonight parents are gripping cell phones waiting for calls that may never come. when a name is circles that person has been rescued. for those whose loved ones have been found uncontrollable

emotion. for others, heart break. >> just so horrific for these families. are they all waiting in a central place for information? >> reporter: anderson, they are basically here. we have mothers and fathers who spent all night here. say they have been sitting by the side of the water looking out. it has been pitch black throughout the night but they are still looking out on the horizon in the hope of seeing something. that ship is 12 miles from where we are at this point. but there is nowhere else for them to go. and we have been hearing one lady screaming and wailing saying why did they announce that they should not move from where they were? why did they not allow my minji to get off the boat? so now the heart break is turning to desperation and anger as they discover there were these p.a. announcements saying stay where you are not saying

try to get off the boat and into the water, anderson. >> it's unbelievable people were told to stay where they are. any information about what may have caused the ferry to sink? have investigators said? >> reporter: we're having nothing official at this point. one eyewitness saying that he felt a loud bump and then the ship started to tilt and that's when they took the life jackets and started to jump into the water. it does appear that some eyewitnesss are talking about a point of impact and people falling over and becoming injured but hearing nothing officially at this point. the search and rescue is taking precedence. the investigation is going on mind the scenes. >> nearly 300 people still missing. students were texting loved ones as the ship was sinking. one teenager wrote, mom, in case i don't get to say this, i love you. his mother didn't know his ship was in trouble.

and another student texted his friends i think we are all going to die. if i did anything wrong to you please forgive me. i love you all. i want to bring in james staples a cargo ship captain. what do you think could have caused this to happen? is human error the most likely explanation at this point? or is it too soon to tell? >> i think it is human error after what i have been hearing today. the ferry left about two hours later than usual due to heavy fog. the captain may have been trying to make up time and may have taken a shorter route and getting off the route as he did and sounds like he hit a submerged object which caused a gash in the hull. >> when you hear that some passengers were told to stay where they were, that to not get up or seek lifeboats does that

make sense to you? >> no, that makes no sense to me. the first thing you do when you have a marine casualty is the preservation of life. that comes first and to evacuate the passengers that's the predominant thing you want to do. you want to get the people out of the ship and into the open spaces so they can get off the vessel. one of the interesting things i noticed about the pictures is it doesn't even look like the life rafts were deployed which would go back to the training of the crew. how well was this crew trained? were they trained? and how often did they have their drills? we need to be looking at that to see what kind of training they did. >> obviously this makes us think what we would do in this situation? what would you recommend if you are a passenger on a ship like this? you get a life preserver which they were instructed to do. and you go to open spaces?

>> absolutely. move to an open area where if the vessel does capsize quickly then you can be evacuated off the vessel. staying down in the lower holds of the ship when she is rolling over, you should not be doing that. you need to be getting out. once the ship is on its side you have no lights and the doors are on the wrong side. and with the buoyancy of the life jacket you can't do it. egress off the vessel and evacuate as quickly as possible to where their life station is. >> if you do jump in the water is it true you should get as far away from the ship as possible. that a ship sinking can suck people down into the water? >> well that does occur. you want to get away from the vessel without a doubt. but with the cold water you have to think twice about getting in the cold water.

the thing to do is get to the life rafts. there were plenty of life rafts on that vessel. there were plenty of small boats in the area to assist with the evacuation of these passengers. this gets back to the we need to look at the decision-making that's going on with the crew. >> i appreciate you being on. thank you. up next, the standoff in eastern ukraine heats up. president obama weighing in. and we have the latest on that. . and i don't need to be online for it to work. it runs office, so i can do schedules and budgets and even menu changes. but it's fun, too -- with touch, and tons of great apps for stuff like music, 'cause a good playlist is good for business. i need the boss's signature for this. i'm the boss. ♪ honestly ♪ i wanna see you be brave

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comcast business built for business. the standoff in eastern ukraine deepened today. pro-russian forces tightening their grip in cities they've seized despite a push by the ukrainian army to take control. local residents in one city blocked ukrainian troops who arrived in armored vehicles. in another town nearly 30 armed people took control of a local government building. russia's president vladimir putin says ukraine is on the brink of civil war. cbs news asked president obama if he thinks putin is provoking it. >> not only have russians gone into crimea and annexed it in illegal fashion, violating the sovereignty and territorial integrity of ukraine, but what they've also done is supported at minimum non-state militias in

southern and eastern ukraine, and we've seen some of the activity that's been taking place there. >> president obama also said that russia may face new sanctions. that does it for this edition of "360." thanks for watching. our coverage continues next with cnn international. the desperate search for survivors. nearly 300 people, many of them high school students, still unaccounted for. more than 24 hours after their ship went down. and we are live in geneva where top diplomats are hours away from a key meeting about the crisis in ukraine. you're all bloody liars and you're lying to us again now. >> six weeks of worry and anger boil over. families of those on board flight 370 lash out once again at airline officials. and the oscar pistorius trial. court is back in s