i think, you know, there's always this tension, as you know, pastor, between science and obviously personal accounts are what they are. >>larry: exactly. >> but i think it's a good discussion to have. i hope you appreciated the questions i asked you and i appreciate you being on the program. >> thank you for having me. >> that's all the time we've got for "sgmd" today, "new day sunday" continues right now with randi kaye and victor blackwell. good morning, everyone, i'm randi kaye. >> now 8:00 here on the east coast, this is "new day sunday." and first this morning, divers are back in the murky waters off south korea's coast. >> they are inching through a sunken ferry hoping to find survivors. but so far, they're only coming across bodies. they're bringing those bodies back to shore one-by-one as heartbroken families are watching. >> the death toll from wednesday's disaster has been climbing all morning. right now, it's at 58, but

likely could go much higher. 244 people are still missing. many of them are teenagers who all went to the same high school. >> grief-stricken families tried to get to the capital seoul, they want to tell the government about their situation. they were stopped by police. >> and prosecutors reportedly are seeking to keep the captain and two crew members in custody for as long as 30 days. the "new york times" reports the third mate was steering the ship through a difficult waterway for the first -- and began sinking. there have been a lot of questions about why more of the people weren't able to get on to those lifeboats and why the lifeboats were not deployed when the ferry capsized. >> paula hancocks is joining us now from the port city in south korea. and paula, first tell us about these new radio transcripts that have just been released from the moments the ship began to sink. they're shedding light on the situation facing the passengers and also the difficulty that the crew had communicating.

>> that's right, randi. we initially knew we had transcripts from 8:55 a.m. on wednesday morning. we now have the transcripts from 9:06 a.m. until 9:38 a.m. that is when the last transmission went out. now, we did understand that at 9:12, in talking to the person within the sea wall ship was told that the passengers should put life jackets on and also saying have the passengers boarded life rafts and rescue vessels. and the person saying, no, they can't at this point, they can't move because the vessel has lifted. so just very shortly after that first distress signal went out. we understand from these transcripts that the tilting was quite significant. that one person in the steering room of the sea wall is saying it was impossible for them to be

able to move. now, of course, there has been a lot of criticism questioning why there was not an evacuation order given to some of those passengers and some passengers who survived said they were actually told to stay put because it was more dangerous for them to move. so this sheds some light, the crew member who they were talking to actually said it was too difficult for them to move at all at 9:23 a.m. also said, tell them to wear life jackets. and at that point, the person who was in charge of the ship said they were unable to broadcast. at which point they were told to physically tell people to put their life jackets on. >> all right. paula hancocks for us there in south korea. thank you. taking a closer look now at the search operation. the former inspector general of the department of transportation. >> mary, although hope is certainly dimming, families are clinging to hope that their loved ones have survived this. what do you think the chances

are that there are survivors still inside this capsized ferry and possible air pockets? >> well, you know, there is the story of a previous sinking. of course, that was in africa where one person was saved many days later. but given the temperature and that the ship is now completely under water, i wouldn't want to give anyone false hope. i think it's pretty unlikely. >> and if the ship is moved, mary. i mean, what happens to those air pockets? do they disappear? and i guess at what point will officials decide to lift the ship? >> well, those air pockets not necessarily will disappear, but they will shift around. they can move around, and if there is, you know, increasingly more and more water taken on, the air pockets do dissipate over time. so moving the ship probably would change them dramatically. and if there was anyone in the air pocket, it would -- it would make the chances dim. >> hey, mary, there's something i've wanted to ask you about

since i've read it. the prosecutor in this case says that the captain is charged with causing the ship to sink by failing to slow down by sailing the narrow route and making the turn. it wasn't the captain at the helm, it was the third mate. how is it possible the captain faces the charges when he was in the state room tending to something else? >> well, we have parallels. everyone might remember the exxon valdez that had run aground and there was, of course, a tremendous fouling of the sound up there. and in that case, the captain did face charges and had been below -- had been relieved of his duty because he'd been serving for a long period of time. the captain in charge of the ship. and while in this country and eventually there, of course, the law had to work its way, you know, the captain had to work his way through the system, which took a long time.

but we require actually guilty mind. in other words, a captain has to make a decision. a bad decision. there, if you're in charge of the ship you don't take care to take care of it, it's a different legal system. of course, you're also in charge of making sure that your crew is trained, that your crew knows how to use a lifeboat so the crew knows what to do. so you can't simply say i'm not responsible because i was resting. that's not how it works. you're responsible for the whole -- for the whole operation of your ship. that is why the captain should and will be facing those charges. >> clarifies it for me. >> mary, thank you very much. nice to see you. >> thank you. breaking overnight, a suspected u.s. drone strike in yemen has killed at least four al qaeda militants, including senior leaders. this is the second one in two days. now, yesterday, at least ten suspected al qaeda operatives were killed in the al bayda province on their way to another

province. officials say the suspects were in a pickup truck when they were hit. and the strikes come days after this video surfaced on the internet showing a huge gathering of suspected al qaeda militants in that same region in yemen. >> right now, the drone looking for any sign of the missing malaysia airlines 777 is in the water. the eighth try in an effort now that has come up empty. up to 11 military planes and 12 ships are also in on that search today. you know, the weather is certainly not helping. a cyclone is nearby. wind and rainy conditions. cnn's miguel is in perth. how much of a factor is the weather today? >> reporter: well, it won't be much a factor for the underwater search. those ships are very large and used to being out in fairly rough weather. and somewhat higher seas will cause problems and inconvenience for those on board those ships. for the most part, the drone

will continue to do its business. it spends 16 hours down there and bring it back up, you know, rough seas will make some of that more complicated. certainly, it makes things more difficult for those doing the search from the air and looking for debris on the surface of the ocean. but this many days on since the crash, it is going to be very, very difficult for them to find anything at all. back to you guys. >> yeah, day 44 of the search. coming up on "new day," another deadly crash on the streets of ukraine. plus, a second drone strike targeting al qaeda militants this weekend. as we said, comes days after the al qaeda video taken in the same region surface. we'll talk more about it. vo: once upon a time there was a boy who traveled to a faraway place where castles were houses and valiant knights stood watch for the kingdom was vast

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welcome back, everyone. about 12 minutes past the hour.

after days of rejecting a diplomatic deal to solve the escalating crisis in ukraine, pro-russian demonstrators clashed once again with ukrainian nationalists. >> and there are conflicting reports, but russian state media is reporting four people were killed at a pro-russian check point. >> this all happening as militants refuse to lay down their arms following an international order. frederick pleitgen is live in kiev. bring us up to date, fred. we seemed to have lost fred. we'll try to get him back on the line as soon as we can and get that update, as well. another story we're following here on "new day." another drone strike targeting terror suspects in yemen. >> are two strikes in two days unusual? we'll ask our terror expert to find out.

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check point, opened fire, people at that check point returned fire. at least four people were killed in that incident. now, the government here in kiev blames moscow for it. they say this is a russian provocation. saying it was some sort of nationalist ukrainian group that attacked them. we've been actually able to reach that nationalist group and they say they were not any of their members. it is sort of tit for tat thing. and it is something that is really very bad for this delicate situation you have on the ground where you have that agreement that was reached between all sides trying to disarm those pro-russian forces in the east. clearly, that's not happening. they say they're not disarming. and they also say they're now making counter demands where they're demanding the government here in kiev step down, as well, if they were to disarm. right now, seem it is agreement that was reached at the very least is in a lot of trouble if it doesn't fall apart

altogether. not a good situation right now even though it seems as though at least the ukrainian authorities are trying to de-escalate the situation. they call for a one-sided truce over the easter holidays. as we saw with the incident that happened, there is still a lot of volatility in the situation in the east of the country, victor. >> fred pleitgen from ukraine, thank you, fred. breaking news overnight, several suspected al qaeda militants are dead after a suspected u.s. drone strike on training camps in a remote area of yemen. the second strike in two days. >> ten suspected extremists were killed after leaving a different site in a pickup truck, three civilians also died. these strikes come soon after a video showing a large gathering surfaced. so far, no indication these strikes had anything to do with that video. cnn national security analyst peter bergen live from washington to talk more about this. good morning. we have now, two attacks in two days. is that unusual?

>> it's not as unusual as you might suspect, irrandi. we've seen strikes take place on the same day in different locations in yemen. that's not at all typical. but we have seen strikes bunched together in different locations. and we've seen nine strikes so far this year. >> can you talk more, peter, about the threat that al qaeda in the arabian peninsula specifically presents to the u.s. and the role that this video surfaced recently plays into the reaction, the response by the u.s. >> this video speaks for itself. we've got 100 people gathered together and meeting the top leaders of al qaeda and yemen and seemingly to do it with impunity. you know, i think it shows quite a lot of comfort on that part. it's strange because they are, you know, taking quite a lot of efforts to be very careful with their communications using

couriers since revelations there was a spy in their ranks. of course, the nsa revelations. what kind of threat do they pose to the united states? well, they have a very skilled bombmaker who has managed to get bombs on to an american commercial jet, the underwear bomber in 2009 and american cargo planes bound for the united states. luckily, those devices didn't work, but this is a bombmaker that has been able to make bombs undetectable by security measures. >> and a lot of people might be surprised that leaders in yemen are not totally opposed to the u.s. drone campaign there. is that because they're having difficulty containing the threat themselves? >> well, yemen is a very complex place, randi, it's the poorest country in the arab world. it's running out of oil and water. there are three different wars going on simultaneously. the government has a lot on its hands. and certainly, the government has actually defended the present prime minister that came to the united states and made --

he also gave an interview to the "washington post." it's not as unpopular in yemen as it is in pakistan. but there are civilian casualties. there were yesterday, three civilians reported killed in that strike. every time you have a civilian casualty, that doesn't help your cause. >> what u.s. officials are saying about these civilian casualties. three yesterday. >> they aren't saying anything, victor, the position of the united states, well for a long time was of total silence. they will brief about the strikes, but they're very reluctant to engage in that issue. one of the themes of the program is if you're a military-age male in an area where a drone strike is happening, the u.s. will often regard you as incompetent when that is not the case.

not every military-age male is part of al qaeda in yemen. so i think the u.s. government tends to avoid that discussion. >> and when it comes to drones, peter, and you look at the obama administration and the bush administration, do you see a difference in their approach? >> it's huge, randi. on to president bush, there was one drone strike in yemen. under president obama, there have been around 90 drone strikes and about 15 cruise missile strikes. president obama has launched incredibly aggressive campaign in yemen. and that's because most people agree that the threat from al qaeda and yemen is the one most troubling to the united states right now. >> all right. peter bergen, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thank you, peter. an international deal to ease tensions in the ukraine sparked in ukraine rather, sparked hope this past week that a solution to the crisis was in sight. but escalating violence and pushback from pro-russian demonstrators have a lot of experts worried, diplomacy will not be enough.

>> candy crowley is the host of "state of the union" and joins us live from washington. good morning, candy. >> good morning. >> tell us more about that. what do you have coming up? >> we have, actually, the top diplomat in ukraine, jeffrey pyatt on the show because i think you're exactly right. people are saying this deal made in geneva is being rejected by the, you know, pro-russian forces along the eastern ukraine. so those are the folks that are trying to get to calm down. if they're not accepting this agreement, the question is, then what? the president and western europe has rejected any notion that u.s. or western europe -- area is so outgunned and outmanned by russia that if russia came across, they could do pretty much what they did in crimea,

which is take over. so the question is, now what?

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>> he called for world peace and the end of social injustices. marks one of the holiest periods. it's the day christians believe jesus was resurrected. >> we're always looking for the bad weather. that's the thing we're going to tell you about first of all. in the southeast, it looks overcast, kind of rainy, stubborn area of low pressure, producing rainfall and rip currents along the east coast of florida through south carolina, georgia and north carolina. so even if you're celebrating easter along some of those coastal areas, it's going to be soggy, a little bit windy, as well, and the rain has really been kind of pounding this area.

they have seen substantial rainfall for the last month or so. well, in the forecast for today, rainfall across the interior west, some showers, maybe some storms and the storms across the west central portion of the state of texas. while across the southeast, looks like it's going to be overcast. as we go into monday, we'll have live coverage here on cnn. boston, you're looking at temperatures and a fine forecast for the marathon. back to you guys. >> karen, thank you. the royal family is celebrating easter down under in australia today. a short time ago, prince william and the duchess of cambridge arrived at a church in sydney. >> and if you're wondering where prince george is, he's probably tired out, taking a nap after his big day. very busy day he had. the royal family took a trip to sydney's world famous zoo earlier. and the city of boston is preparing its first marathon since last year's deadly bombing. >> this morning, churches blessed runners at the finish line of the 26.2.

here's video from the square and security remains high with more than 36,000 people expected to run in the race up 10,000 from last year. thanks for starting your morning with us. happy easter to you. >> "inside politics" with john king starts right now. the president sees 8 million reasons obamacare should be a democratic asset this campaign year. >> i don't think we should apologize for it. i don't think we should be defensive about it. i think there is a strong, good, right story to tell. >> why then are republicans doubling down? why are most vulnerable democrats ignoring the president's advice? plus, joe biden shows off his shades on instagram, tweets a selfie with his best buddy boss. >> it's good to be back in pennsylvania. that other guy's coming. he's