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tv   The Situation Room  CNN  April 22, 2014 2:00pm-3:01pm PDT

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there are still two people missing and this are months of recovery ahead. jake? >> thanks, ana cabrera. i'll turn you over now to wolf blitzer in "the situation room.." terror takedown. the bomb maker possibly killed in a drone attack. crisis unraveling. vice president joe biden makes a show of u.s. support in ukraine as a politician is found tortured and killed in the eastern part of the country. can washington help keep ukraine from falling apart. exclusive details of the search for flight 370 and what happens after the bluefin mission is complete? how officials plan to move forward.
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i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." and we're following the breaks news. al qaeda's top maker killed in a u.s.-led terror? officials are trying to determine whether ibrahim al series was one of the top militants killed. our correspondents are covering this from around the world at this hour. let's begin with barbara starr. she has details about the strike in yemen against al qaeda. barbara, what are you hearing? >> wolf, it was a covert and so secret that an official tells me it's like it never happened. cnn has learned u.s. personnel used russian-made helicopters
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with night vision gear to secretly fly many troops into the remote southern mountains of yemen, a further sign of how much the u.s. would risk to help let me men launch this week's unprecedented raid on the al qaeda strong hold. u.s. officials say the american personnel did not engage on combat on the ground. it was just part of the u.s. assistance in the attacks. >> we continue to work with them on their counterterror capabilities inside their own country. but i'm not going to speak to specific operations. >> reporter: even before the ground assault, the cia used drones to attack al qaeda in the arabian peninsula aqap. fighters, weapon sites, and a training camp near a meeting of 100 fighters last month that was videotaped. u.s. officials were unnerved and
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saying we must eliminate the cross. the bearer of the cross is america. >> you have to believe that it was a message designed not to encourage aqap but to warn the united states that an attack was coming. >> reporter: while the raids were not targeting al qaeda's top bomb maker, ibrahim al asiri, an official says that they are conducting a dchlna te on one fighter killed, a saudi citizen. could al asiri have been there? the u.s. doesn't think he was but the dna testing could take days. al asiri is a top target. the u.s. believes he's designing new bombs to get past airport security and more attacks against the u.s. now, the u.s. hopes this latest grou round of attacks disrupted if not destroyed that training camp and any potential new al qaeda
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plots against the united states. but still, wolf, that video is out there. 100 al qaeda fighters. what was that all about? why did they feel so confident they could be in front of the world with many of them showing their faces? wolf? >> barbara has been ahead of the curve for this story. barbara, thanks very much. let's get more now with retired u.s. general richard meyers. he's the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and mohammed jung joom. what are you learning about the drone strikes and special operation attack? >> we're learning that the yes, ma'am they tracked down a
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vehicle and ibrahim al asiri, they believed at the time that he might have been amongst the militants. a fire fight ensued. dna tests are being done. while there is skepticism about whether ibrahim al asiri was killed, they feel a lot more confident that he possibly was killed in one of the strikes. that would be a huge blow to the aqap in yemen. but top tier targets have been taken out in the past and that hasn't made a change to the organization. what kind of blow would it have to the training centers, the recruitment. >> how important is it to go after these high value targets? you kill some of them and others are going to spring up. >> i think it's really important. you saw on the video where they said that they were trying to stir up the followers and target america. if that's true, then you have to go after them.
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i don't think that's sufficient in the end to defeat al qaeda. but i think it's important that we go after them in this case. as mohammed said, al qaeda regenerates. they have a lot of followers. not all of them killed. their resolve, their will always comes back and they always regenerate. >> this operation did clearly result in the killing of several dozen militants. terrorists. whatever you want to call them. to make a decision like that, the president of the united states would personally have to authorize that and bring the chairman of the joint chiefs advisory in and sit around and say, is it worth the u.s. sending drones in or providing chopper support for yemeni forces? >> i don't know specifically in this case but it would be a typical scenario where you bring your national security advisers together and say, should we take this option? are there civilians nearby that could be harmed by these missile strikes and so forth?
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they would weigh all of that. >> mohammed, you've done extensive reporting from inside yemen. this clearly is a very collaborative u.s.-yemeni operation. how unusual is that? >> it's not unusual for them to be collaborating. it's unusual for them to talk about. but because it was embarrassing to the u.s. and yemeni government to see aqap willing to be sit on the camera and thumbing their nose at the yemenese and the u.s., that they had to go after this group. ibrahim al asiri is a high value target because his fingerprints have been on any number of the major attacks attempted at the u.s. in the past few years. you're talking about the cart bridge bomb plot, the underwear bomb plot and even an attempt to
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assassinate the deputy interior minister in saudi arabia. since the tape appeared, the u.s. and yemen officials said we need to tell aqap we're not going to put up with this and go after their training and camps. >> it's usually a recruitment, these tapes, but you have 100 of them walking around, boasting pretty sophisticated high-resolution, high-definition individual kbroe the video there. what was your take on that? did it spark that operation? >> i don't know all of the intelligence that led up to that. i think the fact that the u.s. said we're not sure the al qaeda high value target was there, something like this is, as mohammed said, in your face. and it would worry a lot of people. it would worry the yemeni people and americans. they threaten american. it also worries the saudi ara a
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arabians. >> and they are doing testing of one saudi citizen killed in this operation who may or may not be ibrahim al asiri, the bomb maker, is being tested? >> we don't know where the body is. some officials indicated perhaps in saudi arabia. it's too early to tell at this point. that could take anywhere from a couple of days to a couple of weeks. sometimes it takes up to two weeks. clearly there is a consensus emerging among the yemenese. they are also continuing to stress these operations are not over. they are continuing to try to go after these targets in places. >> so they have this dna, ibrahim al asiri, that they can check it? >> they do. he's been a thorn in their side
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and in a case like they they wanted to be able to confirm it. >> if they got him, it's a big deal. >> it's a big deal. it doesn't mean that the threat is over but it's a big deal, at least temporarily to thwart their objectives. >> mohammed, thanks for your reporting. we've got more to discuss at this hour, more breaking news. ominous developments in ukraine, a politician found tortured and killed and now the united states is deploying paratroopers to the region. stand by. exclusive new details of plan b as it is being called as the search for malaysia flight 370 is about to enter a brand-new phase. ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪ ♪ hooking up the country helping business run ♪ ♪ trains! they haul everything, safely and on time. ♪ tracks! they connect the factories built along the lines. and that means jobs, lots of people, making lots and lots of things. let's get your business rolling now, everybody sing. ♪ norfolk southern what's your function? ♪
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we're following more breaking news. the country's acting president says two tortured bodies have been recovered in eastern ukraine. one of them a member of a lobe cal parliament. at the same time, the army is sending paratroopers to neighboring poland for exercises. our chief national correspondent jim sciutto is working this story for us. what's the latest? >> the u.s. will be expanding the search. they were talking about two companies, one going to polanded and now it's four companies. a strong message. at the same time we're hearing that it's likely before the end of the week that the u.s. will send economic sanctions on the u.s. as well. a one-two punch. greater economic pressure on
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russia to show russia, moscow that the u.s. will not accept russian military action in and around ukraine. as vice president biden met with ukrainian leaders today, masked gunme gunmen took over buildings. >> we call on russia to stop supporting men hiding behind masks in unmarked uniforms sewing unrest in eastern ukraine. >> reporter: photos obtained by cnn appear to show russian involvement. u.s. officials say they are directing actions on the ground and russian special forces and that there are 40 to 50,000 troops deployed on ukraine's eastern border. soon, more u.s. troops will be deployed nearby. the pentagon reporting that the u.s. is sending four companies
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from the army's 173 airborne based in italy to nato allies for military exercises. >> we've been constantly looking at ways to reassure allies and partners. >> reporter: the white house announced a $50 million aid package for ukraine which is struggling financially. as a diplomatic agreement falls apart, russia's prime minister talked about selling more gas to oil and gas to china. they dismissed russia as a declining and economic political power. >> look, russia is a gas station masquerading as a country. that's really all that is sustaining them. i take that back. it's a gas station run by a
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mafia that is demonstrating as -- >> i thought that was a little rough. >> so we're seeing a very strong message. vice president is on the ground in u krekraine and intelligent agents are operating and he's declaring, one, the u.s. will never accept what he called russia's illegal occupation, rather, of crimea and, two, restating washington strong support for ukraine and now the administration is backing that up with military exercises and greater financial pressure. >> jim sciutto, stay with us. i want to bring back the former retired joint chiefs chairman richard myers. is that going to scare putin if they send allies to lithuania, poland, lavia?
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>> we understand how they can be nervous about what russia is doing on the eastern border of ukraine. it's more reassurance than -- >> well, why are these so nervous? they are nato allies and under the nato agreement, as you well know, an attack on one nato ally is an attack on other allies. they know if they were going to go into estonia or poland, that would be an attack on the united states. >> absolutely. >> so why are these countries so nervous? they don't understand the united states and the other nato allies? >> it's not a matter of trust. it's a matter of being reassured that the folks you're counting on are going to be there. i think this is one of those. >> because they are, as you well know, jim, they are really nervous. >> no question. and there is a thought that putin wants to test that alliance to some degree but you've heard it from chuck hagel
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restating that article 5 commitment and now you have -- >> the nato 5 commitment? >> yes. and pure numbers, not big. 40, 50,000 troops here from the russian side and these are just a few hundred. one point that admiral kirby has made clear, it's not going to be a one-off kind of exercise. they are going to rotate it as a consistent military exercise to russia. >> as recently as last week, i was speaking with a polish diplomat who asked me a serious question. how many troops are in poland right now? i had no idea, there were like 8 or 12. something like that. that's obviously not a very significant number. >> no, it's not. the one thing i would say for the nato countries, if they want to be reassured, they need to help with this and by putting real money to their defense budgets and they are been underfunding defense for lots of reasons and if they are really serious about that, they need
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help. >> you saw a story in "the new york times" today about a new strategy the russian are taking, combining special operations, cyber warfare to get their so-called strategic interests under way. >> the russian military saw its best days during soviet times and it's old-fashion blunt force. this is a much more strategic use of force, much more deft and it shows that they learned. when you look at the activity in georgia, it was special artillery, special forces on the ground, and i think you can say and i'm sure the general will agree that they would look to u.s. experience in iraq and afghanistan and learn something. >> i think so. where i first read this was admiral retired. >> yes. he was quoted in -- >> right. i think his observations are right on. this is it a lot more sophisticated than they probably gave russia credit for.
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maybe we're misreading that. i don't know. but they are handling this in a pretty deft way. >> walk me through putin's mind. why is he doing this? his economy was moving in the right direction, russia was moving in the right direction, more accepted around the world, relations with the europeans, exports of energy resources to germany and other countries. what is going through putin's mind? >> i wish i could tell you, wolf. everything you have said is true. the economy was doing much better. i'm affiliated with one company that does a lot of business there. we want to keep doing business there. we're nervous about continuing that. none of this is good for their economy. we've seen that in their ruble, in their markets. this could be an economic catastrophe if they keep pushing international norms. >> we keep seeing secretary kerry meet with lavrov. my sense is that lavrov's influence may be negligable right now.
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he's really not a major player. >> i think you have to -- it's hard to say it's not a damaged relationship between kerry and lavrov. we saw them working closely on the deal to get chemical weapons out of syria. that was a kerry/lavrov association. you've seen them work on iran and other issues. kerry has had a lot of interaction with him, including the geneva agreement three or four days ago which has gone nowhere the trust has to be affected not just in that relationship but the broader relationship and there are real questions about whether he has power and influence with president putin. >> when you were chairman of the joint chiefs and top men at the pentagon, the u.s. military to military relationship was very decent. >> it was really good to the point that they were sending noncommissioned officers to school in europe, which was just unheard of. i don't know if that is still going on, i would guess probably not given where the state of
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relations are today. it's disappointing to see how far they have fallen and i think building trust between the u.s. and russia is really important, not just for the region over there but for world peace. >> does it make sense for the u.s. to supply weapons, lethal weapons to ukraine? >> i think the second and third effects of that have to be thought through. i'm sure they are worried about that right now. but is their armed forces ability to use those weapons in a responsible way -- >> ukrainian? >> ukrainian armed forces. can they do that? i think that's a big question. their armed forces isn't all that strong. i'd worry about that. i'd worry about using inappropriate ways, civilian casualties, all of the things that come with that. >> jim, is there any serious debate within the obama administration on whether to sell weapons or to at least provide weapons to ukraine? >> absolutely not. and from what i know and based on the exact point that the general made, which is the
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effects minimal considering the amount of russian force there and the danger is greater. so they are really talking about applying military force outside of ukraine to reassure those nato allies. >> jim sciutto, general myers, thanks very much. we're learning exclusive new details about what could be the next phase in the search for missing malaysian airlines flight 370. just ahead, what top officials are now revealing about the investigation and the possibility of widening the search. plus, take a look at this. a live picture. a frantic search for survivors as the death toll climbs, one week since that massive ferry went down. we're live from the search area. divers have finally gained access to a critical part of the ship.
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only to cnn that they are hammering out a new agreement proposed by the malaysian government dealing with widening the search. let's go to cnn's miguel marquez where the tenth mission is under way. the air search is about to resume. what's the latest, miguel? >> reporter: the latest is that they are looking at two tracks here. perhaps bluefin-21 will not come up with anyone in this initial search. at the same time, they are looking down the road to other attempts to both manage the remains and debris from mh-370 when they finally do find it. bluefin-21, the autonomous underwater vehicle, or auv, searching the most promising area deep beneath the southern indian ocean if it fipds no praise, it could be replaced
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about a larger towed mapping device, capable of capturing a wider picture of the sea floor. or in the case of air france flight had 47, several auvs severaling simultaneously. this is how they found air france 447 for the first time, a smudge on the screen. the air search for flight 370 has never stopped, despite terrible odds. >> we're looking for absolutely anything that could be mh-370. >> reporter: hundreds of air crews from the u.s. and australia blanketing the southern indian ocean like a patchwork quilt. still, no signs of the plane. for families, frustration at the
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malaysian government hoping to force actions and answers. >> we're certainly not getting any answers without it. >> reporter: answers may come only more slowly. a reset of the search under consideration, marinetraffic.com shows the sea floor mapping sms echo heading towards port. the u.s. navy says the principle search ship "ocean shield" was resupplied by the "cesar chavez" but can't be refueled at sea. the "ocean shield" may soon have to return to port. now, if it does have to come back to port, obviously there will be a natural point at which they will reset this search and either widen out the search for bluefin-21 or bring in additional resources and over
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the next weeks, perhaps, months, conduct a broader search area in the indian ocean. wolf? >> let's bring in our panel. joining us once again, richard quest as well as our aviation analyst, former ntsb analyst, peter goelz and director tom fuentes. the new search guidelines, the agreements between malaysia and australia to deal with various things if in fact they would be necessary whether debris handling, care of human remains, investigation area changes, asset deployment, what does that say to you that they are thinking along these lines? >> i think we saw this coming a few weeks ago. there's very difficult decisions if and when they found the wreckage on how to treat the remains at that depth. secondly, they are getting ready for the long haul. this search is going to go on for months, if not years.
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and the australians i think have the capability and the commitment to oversee that search. the malaysians want it done in a way that maintains their privacy. so it's a good deal i think being worked out. a wise one. >> let's go to the malaysian capital. richard quest is our man on the scene there. richard, what is the latest that you're hearing on the ground from malaysian authorities and others there? >> reporter: it's a nuts and bolt arrangement. everything that has been done so far has been brought together with a certain degree of urgency, wolf. the search had to be done within 30 days because of the pingers and now, of course, they have time to regroup and that means to put in place a proper agreement and that's what they will do. malaysia and australia are firm allies. there's nothing controversial in this. i suspect the biggest controversial issue is going to
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be who is going to pay for it all as in when they do reach a deal and how the search gets widened. but things like handling human remains and the custody of debris, not least the black boxes. that is a housekeeping issues, if you'd like. >> tom, you've worked on these investigations. how important are these latest developments? >> i think they are what we would expect because it's the search area that they have and how they treat the airplane and whether they would find it. >> richard, the weather is pretty bad out there. a cyclone in the middle of the indian ocean, it's set back the aerial search. here's the question, they haven't found anything in all of these aerial searches. is it simply a waste of time? >> well, that depends on where you are sitting, wolf, doesn't
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it? the families would say they are looking in the wrong place. they need to go back to square one and reapraise the evidence and release the piece of data so that others can make a conclusion. we've already been told that they will wind down the air search because the chances are very low. my feeling and from what i'm hearing from the people i talk to, they will look for a natural pause in all of this. and as miguel says, the failure to find anything in the first third or in the first tranche closest to the strongest ping, that will give everybody a chance to regroup and that's when i think you may see assets return to the origin, you may see them saying there's no point in continuing that part of that and they are regrouping. but that does not mean everyone is going home, switching off the
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lights and for getting all about it. it merely means it's time to rethink that which has been done. this is unprecedented, wolf. we've heard it said a million times. but now i'm talking to those people involved. they cannot be emphasized sufficiently enough. nothing like this has ever been seen before. >> is that true, peter? you did these kinds of disaster investigations. >> richard is right. it's completely unprecedented. there are so many mysteries and so few hard data points. i think the situation is when they get to the natural pause, they are going to rethink it and start again. >> do they need a new team to come in with fresh eyes, fresh thinking, take a look at the inmarsat data, take a look at the pings that they think they heard and say, you know what, we're going to reassess what is going on? >> i think probably, yes, it would not hurt to have a new team look at most of the
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information. with regard to the inmarsat satellite, i don't know how many other teams or how technical or proprietary to the company that information is. it might be only inmarsat can figure out its own system and analyze that data. >> there are a lot of folks out there thinking all of the assumptions that they've been working on, since they haven't found anything, probably are wrong. >> well, i don't know if they are wrong but i think a new team could certainly requestion them and i don't think you need to move on beyond the original team. you've just got to bring in a new set of eyes to look at it. i mean, this is tough work, as we've seen. >> richard, you're there in kuala lumpur. those families, they are distraught, we've seen them crying every day and it's totally understandable. are you getting any sense at all that the malaysian authorities are going to provide at least some answers to those several dozen questions that they put forward? >> reporter: i have to say, wolf, i'm not sure why they
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haven't so far. and i do ask that question. and why hasn't some of what seems to be fairly rudimentary and basic questions not been answered. what i would say is, let's see this next technical team go to beijing. if this next technical team going to beijing failed to be able to provide fundamental answers to the pretty basic questions that have been asked, then the malaysians have some serious questions about why they have unable to do so. on this question of new eyes, they are all men of science looking at all of this and technology. they will have a new perspective. >> i'm going to ask all three of you to stand by. we have more to discuss. coming up, it could be the next big option in the search for flight 370. our own brian todd, he has a live behind the scenes look at a critical piece of technology, capable of doing more than the
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breaking news, the site where the massive ferry went down off the coast of south korea one week ago is surrounded at this hour by cranes and warships and the death toll has climbed to a new high.
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today, divers managed to access the ship's cafeteria where many of the passengers are believed to be gathered. kyung lah is not far from the search area. she's joining us live. what are you learning, kyung? >> reporter: wolf, i can tell you what we're seeing is that the search has been active, it's been ongoing, it's happened throughout the night and now at daybreak you can see it happening right behind me. i want you to focus in on -- you see that yellow crane there? well, directly to the right of that yellow crane you see two o off white buoys. that marks the spot of the ship. it's about 20 meters below. and then around it you can see these orange rafts. that's where the divers come for relief, come for some air and it's from there that they dive deep under the water. and what's happening is under the water is that they are going
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in through various access points, going in through the cabins, feeling around with their hands hoping to feel something, someone. that's what is happening under the water. and as we widen out here, the reason why i want you to take a bigger picture look, you may notice that there's a tremendous number of ships here. the reason why that they are spaced so far apart, one mile, three miles, seven miles, and ten miles throughout this entire area is because of body drift. they are concerned that the bodies have left the ferry and that they are now starting to float out to sea. it is a huge concern here. they want to bring all the bodies home to the families for positive identification. wolf? >> kyung, the death toll has just gone up, right? >> reporter: the death toll has just risen to 128 throughout all of this ever since the disaster began, just about a week ago,
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we're almost at the exact one-week mark of when this disaster began. the numbers have not gone down. they have found survivors just on that first day. ever since then, wolf, they have only pulled bodies out. the new death toll stands at 128. >> and 174, many of them teenagers, are still missing. kyung lah on the scene for us, thank you. when we come back, it could be the best option in the search for missing flight 370. >> i'm brian todd at the place where they operate and maintain these high-tech vehicles capable of going to great depths in the ocean. and if you think these are tiny little drones, think again. this rov is bigger than a minivan. we'll show you what they are capable of just ahead. (dad) just feather it out. that's right.
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could be the next critical device in the underwater search for malaysia airlines flight 370. our own brian todd is just outside washington, d.c. with a closer look at orion. that's capable of doing more than the bluefin-21. brian, tell us what you can about the orion. >> reporter: well, wolf, this is the orion right now. it's towed on cables like this. it can scan the ocean floor about three-quarters of a mile in each direction and go much deeper than the bluefin can go. many analysts believe if the bluefin can't find wreckage of the missing plane, this could be the next vehicle in the water. the bluefin-21 has scoured the search area, pushed the limits of its depth capability, and so far found nothing, but the ocean floor is deeper in some places than the bluefin can go and this
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may be the next best option. >> this is the orion system, the towed side scan sonar system. >> reporter: we got a look at phoenix international. the search team. the u.s. navy owns the orion. phoenix runs and maintains it. the project manager showed us the orion and the curve, a remotely operated vehicle that can recover wreckage. the orion can go deeper, can stay down much longer, days or weeks at a time, unlike the bluefin's 24 hours. it's towed with a cable, so it's not as bothered by rough seas caused by bad weather. orion doesn't have a camera like bluefin does, but does have side-scan sonar. >> the producers which send out the signal, which basically sends out a sound signal to the sea floor and that signal bounces off the sea floor and comes back, which paints a
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picture of the bottom of the ocean. >> reporter: and there's another advantage for the orion. one key capability is the ability to transmit images and data in realtime. that gets sent up here to a control room on the surface of the ship, where a pilot and copilot are watching it in real time, looking at the images, sometimes taking a screen grab and analyzing it on a different screen. if the orion spots something, it's taken out and the curve is sent in. >> they are flood lights, basically, will light up on the sea floor. >> reporter: and can pick debris up with its manipulator arms. so why wasn't this system used immediately in this search? >> to move curve, orion, their handling systems, you're talking about 300,000 pounds of equipment, several aircraft to move all this stuff, then the deck space on ship to be able to operate it all. >> reporter: now officials here say these vehicles are ready to deploy to the indian ocean if
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they are requested. they have to be ready on about four hours' notice. it takes about three days to fly them to the indian ocean, wolf, and it might take another week to deploy them. >> they are getting ready to, presumably. what are some of the limitations, though, brian, of the orion? >> reporter: well, officials here say that it's got, you know, it cannot go to the very bottom of the ocean. it's got to be elevated at about maybe 1,000 feet off the ocean floor, because it's towed and it does not have the ability to kind of zigzag in inconsistent patterns like the bluefin can, but it stays down much longer. but because it's towed, it's got to go in the lawn mower pattern and can sometimes hit a hill or mountain on the ocean floor. it's been known to do that on occasion, but again, it can stay down longer and has much greater depth capability than the bluefin. >> brian todd, thanks for that report. coming up, a possible new plan in the search for malaysia flight 370 as officials weigh new options.
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happening now, a cnn exclusive. new information about the next phase of the search for the flight 370. we could be only hours away from a critical turning point in the entire operation. plus, claims of terror and torture. ukraine launches a new crackdown against pro-russian forces after a shocking discovery, and now the u.s. is deploying hundreds of troops. and the first cry for help. we now know who placed the first distress call as a ferry was sinking, and it's raising more questions about the conduct of the crew. we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room."