video of warhol talking about the project. remember, you can always follow us on twitter. tweet me @wolfblitzer. tweet the show. you can watch us live or dvr the show so you won't miss a moment. thanks very much for watching. "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. next breaking news, a search area for flight 370 moving. plus, final texts from the passengers. how to retrieve them. a live demonstration. and outrage. the south korean ferry accident was no surprise. tonight, the builder's record of disasters at sea. let's go "outfront." >> good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnt net. "outfront" tonight, we begin with the breaking news. word just in from a u.s. navy source, the search area for

malaysia airlines flight 370 is moving. it's shifting north. the argued the underwater search where they were looking is pretty much done. 50 days after the plane vanished, this hour they are no closer to finding the plane than they were on day one. now officials say they're going to move that search area north. if the bluefin-21 underwater vehicle comes up empty handed when it completes its current mission, which could happen in the next hour or so. then the search will move towards an area where the first ping was detected. meanwhile, the things they have to look for those pings and the leads are diminishing. a british submarine that was florng more pings is pulled out of the search. that lead has completely gone cold because any pings would be dead now. and a british navy ship that was in the ocean is now going to head back to port and refuel. miguel marquez is in perth tonight. miguel, the search area has moved many, many times, but now it's moving again, and we should emphasize they have been looking in the most promising area. so they're now moving alittle bit off of that. is there new information, or are they just saying we're going to

move on to the second best hope? >> well, they're going with the best information they have. and let's keep in mind this is the first place they have searched in the southern indian ocean. we expect that they are probably through 100% of that initial search area, and officials here saying they're going to continue search using the bluefin in adjacent areas of that first search. and then this move north. now what that actually means is a big question. it's not clear they can do that with the bluefin or whether they're going to have to reset everything. we know the ocean shield that the bluefin is on cannot be refueled at sea. we can bring supplies on to it, but it can't be refueled. it will eventually have to come into port, take on fuel, take on supplies and perhaps new gear and then head north that could take some time, erin. >> miguel, you know, they obviously haven't found anything under the ocean yet. so they don't really know exactly where the plane is. they think they might know. but they don't know. are they going to keep looking on the surface, looking for debris? we heard this week a piece of

debris may have washed up on the beach. we went to that location. that wasn't it. are they going to keep looking on the surface? >> we heard for some time they want to end the surface. even if they do find it, it's negligible to finding the plane. it's not clear why they've continued to search other than the families clearly want some physical certainty that the plane is down there. the second ping or really the first ping that they're going to go to now is probably the second best hope. it was certainly of the four pings they got two of them were very strong. they started with the strongest. and now they're going to the longest ping. so perhaps this is it. but it's going to be a much more tricky situation to search in that particular area. erin? >> miguel, thank you very much. reporting live on that big news tonight, which is that they are going to be done in that current search area and are moving it away from the most promising search center. so what are investigators going to do next? joining me now our own richard

quest from kuala lumpur. richard, let me start with you in kl. what is the next big move in the search? >> the next big move is both practical, and it's with the agreements between australia and malaysia. everybody is looking two or three steps ahead. if bluefin does not succeed in the narrow search or the medium search, you go to a long-term searching plan. that means the assets that will be required, the costs that will be involved, the manpower that needs to be deployed. you can only do that when everybody has sat around and come up with a master plan. >> all right. well, the master plan, tim, is going to involve some changes. right now we have been relying on that bluefin-21. there are several different things they could do. the u.s. navy has the orion, the remus 6,000 and the remora. let's start with the orion. how different is this from the bluefin which is obviously down

there now looking? >> it does the same thing as far as collecting sonar images. but it is a towed array. meaning you have to let it out on a cable. and if it's three miles deep, it's going to have to let over ten miles of cable out to get to the bottom and tow it. >> so it can get stuck on things? >> if the terrain down there is rough, it doesn't view the bottom as well. it doesn't contour to the bottom where the auv will stay with the bottom and get you much better imagery. and it does have trade-offs. everybody thinks because it's down there for 24 hours. >> sending up real-time data. >> it has to turn. when it goes to turn, it has to reel everything up, driveway upcurrent, and that could be more time than it would take to turn an auv around. so they might not be getting as much data. >> and the data coming up on that wire, yes, you're getting it as it's happening but losing resolution as a trade-off for that? >> a lot of these things they say they cover 3,000 meters. but if they do coffer 3,000 meter, the resolution is so low and the frequency they use is so low that you wouldn't see a

plane. so they have to bring it down to a sweet spot where they can see that bottom. and when they do, it's close to what the auvs are bringing up and it's not a great -- it's the same option but a little bit more difficult. >> it's pretty incredible when you said it might be down there and not even see the plane. to give everyone a sense of how difficult this is, richard, they're now moving the search area, expanding it a little bit. they had hoped, right, that they heard this most promising ping, they were going to zone right in on that area and find it. they say that the ocean floor down there is not mountainous. it's rolling. so they thought they might be able to see it. has the most promising lead gone cold, or do you think they're going to keep combing through that same area again and again? >> well, assuming that they have absolute confidence that they have covered this close area properly and thoroughly and there is no reason to doubt that, then going to the next, you're literally moving forward from the bulls-eye to a little further and a little bit further and a little bit further. so now they're moving from the

narrowest, which was around the second ping, the 13 minutes, they're going slightly northwest towards the first ping because that gave them the longest, more than two hours worth of location. it's going to take more time because you're doing it slow. you're doing it low, and in this case, we believe that the terrain is slightly more rugged, but it is certainly deeper. so there are no easy options here. any idea that they're going to have a lot more of a simple solution is simply not true. >> tim, it's also, let's take the remus 6,000. it doesn't send up images immediately. but you can use more than one at a time. >> yeah. the remus 3000 is like the bluefin-21, but it can go deeper. >> which might mean in this new search area richard is referring to they might need to use that. >> exactly. and they don't have to stop using the other asset. they can put both in play and the remus can work in the deeper water and they can pick another search area that is a little

shallower for the bluefin 21. >> there is only half a dozen of the remus 3000s in the world. people aren't doing this kind of thing very often. >> that's true. >> oh, why don't we have something better? how -- how modern is this technology? how often do they update it? >> it's modern, but they build these vehicles and not always for this pressure. so some of these vehicles are remus 6000 may come out, but they may only put pressure housings in. although they're rated to 6,000, some will buy them and need half that. so they will build them accordingly. so there are a limited. they're being used. they're being used by the people who bought them for a purpose. they'll have to get them from them, because they have business to do. >> richard, tim points out oil fields. that's why these things often exist. that's the commercial purpose deep under the sea, people are trying to drill for oil and gas. >> and that's exactly why they haven't got more of them at the moment. this thing was thrown together within a 30-day period because of the pingers.

and the bluefin 21 was available from the u.s. navy. you can't just go to every oil company and say oh, would you mind letting us from that submersible, please. and by the way, we need that one as well. you to do contracts. who is going to pay for it. how are you going to get there it? where are you going to get the staffing and the support? you need the analysis. now they have finished the first most urgent part of it. they can start to put in place as people like david gallo and others have expressed with 447. you plan. you project, and you get on with it. >> all right. tim, richard, thank you. and one final thing i want to point out. when they find the debris, if they find it, then you have to perhaps send people down there. and that's what the remora is for this. is a remote operated vehicle, but a person would have to go down with it. they would have to search and see what they could find, which is a pretty incredible thing. >> it's rovs. it has to have a cable that goes with it. it can stay down there nd you

can change ships on the top and it can stay down there for multiple days if needed. it can lift and dig and recover items and find the black box. >> all right. "outfront" next, the prime minister of malaysia on what caused flight 370 to disappear. plus, another emergency on a plane today. a hijacking scare. and bizarre reports out of north korea tonight. why are these women crying? [ male announcer ] this is the cat that drank the milk... [ meows ] ...and let in the dog that woke the man who drove to the control room [ woman ] driverless mode engaged. find parking space. [ woman ] parking space found. [ male announcer ] ...that secured the data that directed the turbines that powered the farm that made the milk that went to the store that reminded the man to buy the milk that was poured by the girl who loved the cat. [ meows ] the internet of everything is changing everything. cisco. tomorrow starts here. their type 2 diabetes... ...with non-insulin victoza.

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breaking news. the underwater search area for flight 370 is moving north if the plane is not found this weekend. and the investigation into what caused the plane to go down is also cold. in an exclusive interview with our richard quest, the prime minister of malaysia weighed in on what he thinks caused the plane to go down. >> you've given two statements, one i think on the 14th or 15th. one on the 24th. they are major statements of the direction of this. when you describe it as deliberate action by somebody on the plane, that word deliberate is very carefully chosen. and it doesn't tell us whether it's deliberate me fairious or deliberate because of mechanical, does it? and you deliberately didn't want to say that. >> precisely. it was very, very carefully chosen. because given the facts, and mind you, richard, the cardinal rule that we used from day one

was always follow the evidence. and the evidence that were presented to us meant that was precisely the right word for me to use. >> do believe it is nefarious, mechanical? are you prepared to say? >> not at this stage. it would be wrong for me to speculate. because you need hard evidence, richard. >> richard quest is with me now in kuala lumpur along with les abend and arthur rosenberg here in new york. here is the thing. they know a lot more than we know. let's take for example the one thing the copilot's cell phone pinged a tower. and they didn't say about anyone else's phone on the tower pinging the. i only raise that to make the point that they know more than they have told us. so do you think they have a working theory what happened that they're not sharing?

>> i think that in the back of their minds, they do all have some idea of what they believe happened. and the prime minister was not and would not even privately tell me what he thought. but if you talk to other people here, if you talk to those close to a lot of people, they do move to the nefarious theory. and yet, and yet i'm going to -- i can feel arthur about to leap himself out of the seat. and yet all of the sudden out of nowhere, i'll be talking to a 777 captain from the airline who will put forward a perfect scenario for a mechanical option involving the oxygen bottles which are stored in the double e bay under the cockpit. so we're back to square one. >> that is good because we have arthur here and les abend. les, for a long time you were saying this was mechanical. have i never fully understood how mechanical could be the issue if there were two turns and all these bizarre flight

paths? do you still think it's possible? >> i've always leaned that way, yes, absolutely. and richard mentioned a 777 captain from malaysia. >> yes. >> with a mechanical problem in the oxygen. i've had some e-mail correspondence with richard. i don't think that's it. if it's mechanical, i think it leads more towards the smoke fume fire issue that shuts down things. knowing what i do about the fire extinguishing system, how it's automatic once it's initiated. >> bizarrely one in a billion where it was a bad enough of a fire to kill everyone on board but the plane kept flying for seven hours? >> i could go through the whole scenario on how that could happen. >> but you do think it could happen? >> thing is a real possibility on that happening, absolutely. >> that's a mechanical explanation that makes sense to someone who knows a lot about this, arthur. but you do not fallen on this side. you have never fallen on this side. >> my slow movement was relatively short period of time. here is the bottom line. on the mechanical scenario, you

look at swissair 111. you look at valujet. from the time they reported fire, electrical in the cockpit, in the cabin until the time they crashed, you're talking minutes. less than 20 minutes. they also had time to communicate. they announce wed have a fire. we have smoke. this plane had nothing. more importantly, more importantly here, if it looks like a snake, it moves like a snake, it is a snake. you look at the profile of this airplane from the time it took off from kuala lumpur. i hear richard in the background. all the key points, the climb back, the climb to 39,000 feet, the back and forth, the around the northern hip of indonesia. this is an intentional, deliberate act. it is clearly nefarious in my mind. we just don't by who. >> i love how you both have given very credible, thoughtful explanations for both sides. richard, i want to get back to your interview, though, briefly. obviously president obama is

arriving in malaysia tomorrow. first president to go in 48 years. but honestly, people are thinking oh, obama is going there? there is this plain controversy, right? this has exposed a lot of weaknesses. perhaps it's authoritarian tendencies. you asked about that. >> what is the message you will be giving to president obama? >> is that we want to be friendly with both the united states and with china, and that we expect the two super powers to play a productive and positive role in the region. >> good luck. they both want you on their side perhaps to the exclusion of the other. you know that. >> well, that's life. you just have to manage the two super powers. do we need to choose? i don't think we need to choose. we need both. >> china must be happy they got called one of the two super powers in that answer. >> and in this part of the

world, you dare not call them anything else. erin, i'm thousands of miles away from you at the moment, and i can tell you where i am sitting, china is seen as very much an economic and a regional super power and a partner that they need to do business with. the united states is aware of it, and that's why obama's visit here. first president in 48 years is so crucially important not just for malaysia, but for the united states too. >> thank you all very much. we appreciate it. still to come, a hijacking scare on an awesian flight. and retrieving the final messages from flight 370. a live demonstration coming up. in pursuit of all things awesome, amazing, and that's epic, bro, we've forgotten just how good good is. good is setting a personal best before going for a world record. good is swinging to get on base before swinging for a home run. [ crowd cheering ] good is choosing not to overshoot the moon, but to land right on it and do some experiments.

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following breaking news tonight. sources telling cnn the search area for the missing malaysian airlines jet is going to shift north. meanwhile, more airline scares in just the past 24 hours. fear of a hijacking on board a virgin australia flight. a drunk patron tried to bank on the cockpit before crewmembers took control. a flight bound for norway was forced to land after a bomb threat. and last weekend another malaysia airlines flight forced to make a landing after suffering problems with its landing gear. malaysia airlines has a history of problems long before flight 370 was on the radar. that includes a hijacking. ted rowlands is out front. >> reporter: december 4th, 1977, 93 passengers and 7 crewmembers were killed when malaysian airlines flight 653 slammed into a swamp. >> oh, it's awful. i can't imagine what it would have been like for the families.

>> reporter: the 737 had left pan nang for kuala lumpur when the pilot radioed there was a hijacker on board. the plane went down just west of the singapore airport. tom sherrington's father richard was killed instantly. >> it marked a moment from where that moment in time it's putting ourselves back together again. that's what happened with all these people at malaysian. this will be the thing that you refer to for a long, long time. >> reporter: no one took responsibility for the hijacking, and what happened on board is still a mystery. >> i can't armchair quarterback, you know, what that captain decided to do. but maybe he had an opportunity to disarm the hijacker and felt that he could save his passengers. and unfortunately, it went awry. >> reporter: the 1977 hijacking was by far the worst, but not only the incident for malaysia airlines before flight 370 went missing. in 1983, flight 684 was attempting to land in subong in a rainstorm but missed the runway by two kilometers.

no lives were lost. 34 people died in 1995 when flight 2133 overshot a runway and crashed into a neighborhood. the cause was determined to be pilot error. in march of 2000, several ground crewmembers became sick when a toxic chemical leaked from a cargo container. it was so bad, the plane had to be taken out of surface. the owner of the cargo was found to be at fault for falsely declaring the contents nontoxic. cargo specifically lithion batteries is being considered in the investigation into what happened to flight 370. in 2005, malaysia air flight 124 left perth, australia for kuala lumpur but had to turn back after the pilot reported a software problem in the boeing 777. the pilot was able to land safely. the history of malaysia airlines, which is government-owned, dates back to 1946. overall, the airline has a relatively good safety record. the former head and founder of malaysia air is concerned that

that could soon change if nothing from flight 370 is found. >> let us get the black box. once we get the black box, then we can have the answer. if we can't find all those, then it will start pointing fingers and so on. they will say all sorts of things, and it's very difficult for us to defend. >> reporter: ted rowlands, cnn, chicago. "outfront" next, the south korean ferry accident. it's not the shipbuilder's first catastrophe. horrible headlines. and breaking news out of north korea. an american detained. hey. i'm ted and this is rudy. say "hi" rudy. [ barks ] [ chuckles ] i'd do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy. that's why i'm so excited about these new milk-bone brushing chews. whoa, i'm not the only one. it's a brilliant new way to take care of his teeth. clinically proven as effective as brushing. ok, here you go. have you ever seen a dog brush his own teeth? the twist and nub design cleans all the way down to the gum line, even reaching the back teeth. they taste like a treat,

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i would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. but that would require wifi. switch to comcast business internet and get two wifi networks included. comcast business built for business. breaking news. divers tonight recovering more bodies from the capsized ferry off the coast of south korea. 187 people are now killed. 115 still listed as missing. and tonight there are damning new questions about the ferry's builder, and why two of its ships met with the same fate. on the left, you see the ferry's sister ship. on the right, the south korean ferry. kyung lah is out front in jindo, south korea. kyung, what have you learned about the incidents involving

these two ships. those pictures look identical. >> they're eerily similar. and we're learning there were already lessons learned several years ago. but the korean owner of the sewol either never heard about it or never put them in place. the sewol ferry sinking with hundreds of people trapped inside. shocking korea and the world. but in japan, this is deja vu. november 13th, 2009, a japanese ferry named iyake was traveling from tokyo to okinawa. less than 12 hours into the journey, the ocean current was very rough, says professor. he says the current shifted the cargo to one side, causing the ship to capsize. the ferry doesn't just look like the korean ferry accident, the two ships were made by the same

builder, run by the same operator. they weighed almost the same and capsized nearly the same time into their journey. but here is a major difference, says professor watanabe. when the koreans bought the ferry from japan, they expanded it to pack in more people, turn:00 it into a ticking time bomb. the koreans bought a used vessel from japan and added lots of cabin says watanabe and cabins were built on top. the japanese ferry had only 29 passengers and crew aboard and the crew saved everyone, pulling them to the upper deck and deploying all the lifeboats. in the wake of its ferry accident, japan toughened ship regulations to lock down and limit cargo, especially in poor weather or currents. since that change in the law, japan has had zero accidents and vessels of this size. the korean ferry company appears not to have known much about the risks of cargo and the current.

it bought the japanese ship in 2012, refitted it to carry hundreds more passengers and launched it as the sewol, the doomed ferry would carry the passengers to a disaster japan had already learned to prevent. >> kyung, it's chilling to see that. now you're talking about the owners of the south korean ferry. it's not just this ship. they have a sister ship that they own that was just cited for a laundry list of shocking safety violations. >> certainly shocking. and let's be very clear, because we're talking about a lot of different ships. this is yet another ship owned by the same owners of the ferry that just went down, the sewol. this is the ohemana. it is still operating. but what is happening investigators went aboard to see if there might be anything wrong with the ohemana. they found a laundry list of safety violations. 40 life rafts did not work. the items, the ties to hold down

cars didn't work. the emergency slides to escape off of the ship didn't work. ties to hold down large shipping containers, they existed, but they didn't work very well. so this is giving us a picture, a today picture of what this korean company views of safety and whether it prioritizes it at all. erin? >> i think that certainly gives an answer that it does not. kyung lah, thank you very much. breaking news continues. a source telling cnn an american has been detained in north korea. we're learning now that the man, identified as miller matthew todd was taken into custody on april 10th. a western diplomat tells cnn that the man, 24 years old actually tore up his visa at customs and that he appeared to go willingly with the north koreans. this comes as south korea says the north is preparing a new nuclear weapons test and has completed all the preliminary steps required for that jim acosta is traveling with president obama who is in seoul, south korea tonight. and jim, what more do we know about this american who is being detained? the story seems really bizarre.

>> it does seem very bizarre, erin. it's just another addition to the president's list of worries over here in asia. what we do know is basically what you just said, erin, and that is american officials are not saying very much right now. they've only heard these reports that this american, 24-year-old miller matthew todd was detained by north korean officials in the last several days, that he was behaving erratically when he entered the country, tearing up his visa and he was taken into custody at that point. at this point, erin, all they can say is they're dealing with swedish diplomatic officials who they typically deal with in these circumstances with the north koreans. >> just very bizarre. so many questions. at the same time, you have -- i mean, it's kind of incredible in terms of a provocation. you have president obama in south korea. not in washington, not in new york, in south korea when there apparently the north is getting ready to do a nuclear test. that in and of itself is pretty incredible.

>> that's right. and they've been bracing for this possibility over the last several days. they knew going on this trip that it might be too tempting for pyongyang to pull off some sort of provocation while the president was in seoul, south korea. it hasn't happened yet, but you heard during that news conference the president standing there with south korean president park, basically saying that she believes that the north koreans are prepared to conduct a nuclear test at any point. so it could happen conceivably now before the president leaves country for malaysia, his next stop. what the president said in his news conference earlier today is that this is why north korea is the most isolated government in the entire world. and he has said that basically, it does seem at this point that the north koreans are not responding to the sanctions that have been applied in their case. it sounds like a familiar story. it sounds a lot like what has been going on with russia and other hot spots where sanctions just aren't having the desired respect. you heard the president say with

respect to north korea it may be time to add some that have more bite. >> much, jim acosta live in seoul. we meanwhile have been seeing a series of bizarre photos by the north korean government this week. let me show you this one. this is kim jong un, the leader, surrounded by adoring, crying female soldiers. sort of like the images you used to see of the beatles surrounded by their fans. i mean, they're all bawling. and then photos of a very young kim jong un broadcast by north korea's state media as well. already in military garb as a toddler. gordon chang is the author of nuclear showdown. gordon, nuclear tests, all these photos released. is this all related? and what do you make -- i mean, we'll keep showing the pictures in the video, but what do you make of all these women crying over him? >> the north korean regime is founded on the myth that the kim family has the love and devotion of everybody in. this is important for them especially to keep up appearances now when kim jong un's hold on power is tenuous.

we've had so many purges and counter purges and executions since 2010. so they really need to bolster the regime. and what better way to do it than to have women crying over kim jong un. >> we have seen those reports about him setting dogs that ripped people alive. i mean absolutely horrific reports coming out of north korea recently. do you think all of that is true, or is this a sign that people don't like this guy? >> well, some of the reports are not true. jun sung tak was executed with anti-aircraft rounds, not by a pack of 120 dogs. but the point is there is real instability in this regime right now. so kim jong un has to do something. you know, most people think that he consolidated power quickly. but there have been just too many signs of stress in pyongyang to believe that everything is well. and that's why we're having all of this occur, especially while president obama is in seoul, because kim jong un needs to show some success. and what better way to do it

than to embarrass an american president. >> all right. gordon chang, thank you very much. >> thank you. and still to come, passengers' final messages from flight 370. a live demonstration of how they can be retrieved. and is $60 billion too much to spend on pets? morgan spurlock "outfront." [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i hope he's saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or you are ready for retirement, we'll help you get there.

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finally breaking news tonight. sources telling cnn the search area for missing malaysia airlines flight 370 is going to shift thought. in our "outfront" investigation tonight, did passengers on board the flight send text messages the night the plane vanished? those final words could solve the mystery of what happened. last night we showed you exclusively how those messages could be retrieved to simulate conditions in the ocean under three miles of water, our ted rowlands submerged his phone in a saltwater pressure chamber for over a week. he was still able to successfully retrieve text messages, photos, video from the phone. tonight ted is "outfront" from the discovery lab. ted, that was incredible last night because your phone, it was corroded. i mean, you would have thought there ask no way on earth you would have gotten the data you did. a lot of feedback. and a lot of people saying it's just not possible that you could have done this.

>> yeah, it's amazing, erin, when you think about it, the condition of our phone. look, this is our phone that we submerged for eight days. and there is not much left of it. you see all the corrosion there. it was -- it was in pretty bad shape. this is chad goff from ford discovery. he helped us get the information off the phone. he did get it off. we put the phone in. it's not the stuff, it's the chip. and you have our chip. >> correct. this is actually the chip from the phone. so for everything that is on that phone. all of the data is stored in the small little chip. this is the only thing that needs to be intact, that needs to be retrieved for us to read the data. >> and to get it, they had to do all the things which we showed you last night, erin, bathing it in this solution, and then the heat. this baby puts 700 degree heat on either side of the chip. >> absolutely. it's extremely high heat. it puts it on both sides of the chip. it loosens it up so we can remove it and read it in a separate device. >> and last night you saw it

worked. eight days in saltwater. well got all of the information off that we put on, and more information that we thought we had deleted before we gave them our phone. >> i'm even more in awe when you're saying that was under three miles of pressure in ice-cold temperatures for weeks. and new you put 700 degree temperatures on and it's still there. it gets even more amazing. but here is a question. does it matter what kind of phone you have, whether you have a samsung, whether you have an iphone? >> well, they get all the phone, all different phones in here, as you might imagine from the flip phones all the way through to different cell phones. the blackberries, you name it. the only phone that is a little bit of a problem for them is this baby, the iphone. although it has a chip that is embedded here with epoxy which keeps the chip in great condition, chad, it's pretty near impossible to get the information off of it without apple's help. >> it is. so the data that is actually on the chip is encrypted. even though we can remove the chip in the same process we did

for your phone, the data is encryption keys on the phone without apple's house, we just can't access it. >> but if the apple phones were found in this scenario, and apple helped out with the investigation, they would be easy to get the information off because the chips probably would be in pretty good shape? >> sure. it would be the same process. >> so, chad, let me just ask you a question. obviously with the breaking news tonight that the search area is moving, and there is no leads at this point, what if it takes them months, a year, years from now to find the plane and the phones? after all that time, could you still get the data off? >> sure. i mean, these chips are usually coated by the manufacturers into an epoxy. and that epoxy is very resilient to things like saltwater. so scrape that epoxy off, remove those chips, we could certainly get that up. >> and the data, erin, that they get off is not only potentially instrumental in terms of finding out what happened if they get it off on board that plane, but

they deal with it all the time, that information, chad, is so important to families. you were telling us earlier about a family of a soldier who died in afghanistan. they had his phone you. guys were able to give that family the information. >> sure. there is all the text messages, the photos on there that are inconsequential at the time that turn out to be very important and sentimental that the families want back. >> and obviously that will be a component with not only this case, but the korean case as well with all those kids, those families would love to have those mementos all right, please don't go anywhere, i just want to bring in mary schiavo into the conversation, mary, you dealt with data, cell phones, in this investigation for a while. could this really be the key? >> oh, absolutely, you know, the brave passengers and flight attendants on september 11 really changed the way the world

looks at passengers and the cell phones and what you really have to do. and they preserved evidence for everybody who was on the plane and managed to get information out. there were two things they did. one, they preserved the evidence and told what was happening but they also sent very, very important messages to their loved ones. passengers have recorded fires, falls, smoke in the cabin, the underwear bomber, shoe bomber, a flight attendant going crazy, people going crazy, if they get those phones it will be recorded. it will be evidence of what happened. there will be last messages which they will treasure and which will be very, very important for them. >> what if there are not those messages, mary? >> if there is nothing on any of the cell phones that means whatever happened, happened very quickly. because you know from my experience i know that people try very hard to record what is happening in their last messages, and document what is going on. and so if there is nothing on any of the cell phones we will

know that something happened very, very quickly. >> ted, i guess i'm curious, when these phones are found are they going to be sent -- i spouse to somebody like you, chad, to go through? >> well, the problem, too, and if they're not handled properly when they are pulled out of the water, whether it is the ferry case or flight 370, that can really make it difficult. so hopefully these phones will be treated properly, right? because if they're not they could be trouble. >> absolutely, so within an hour after they pulled your phone out of the aquarium and let it dry off the corrosion on there was so bad. and keeping the ship went and keeping it clean was key for this phone. >> if you think about it, erin, you are talking about literally hundreds of phones, whose phone belongs to who. they will have to be treated the same way and somebody like chad

or another organization will have to figure out whose phones they are and what potential information is on there that could be used for investigators. and then be useful to the family. >> and when you recognize, the difficulty if this is a wreckage under the water, just to salvage it, if these phones are somehow put in the air and not -- if they're not kept in water you might not be able to get the information and data. the information. >> the chance for recovery drastically diminishes when they're left out in the elements. >> that, mary, is a very sobering reality. do you think it is safe to say that the cell phones could be as important if not more important than the black boxes? >> well, they certainly can be as important and maybe even more important than the cockpit voice recorder. because these phones would have been, if the folks were able to do it, would have been able to be recorded upon and record images, messages, until the very last moments of the flight. and i can say that the ntsb is

very much aware of the evidentiary value on cell phones. and they have used it in many cases. so if they are helping out with this investigation they will know the value of these. >> all right, well, thank you very much to all of you, i want to make sure that everybody knows ted showed exactly how this is done. i have that blog on my twitter account so you can tell how they get that data and extract it. it is an incredible thing that many thought could be impossible. and now to the tensions in ukraine sharply elevating. russian planes have entered ukrainian air space several times over the last 24 hours. troops of course have moved along the border and 60,000 have conducted practices.

>> reporter: erin, growing concern on what is happening there in the ukrainian air space in just the last 24 hours. calling on russia to de-escalate the situation. russia itself says that it is a crime using force against its people. and we've heard ukraine saying they want to begin the second phase of an anti-terror operation, surrounding the flash point of the unrest here in a town called slaviansk. and there is an observe mission that has in fact been detained by pro-russian militants. the self-declared mayor says he may actually be a spy for the central government in kiev. so a continuing drip of troubling news that just edges people toward that moment. they worry if there is a flash point big enough, for the russian troops to come across

the border here. behind it all, barack obama not particularly positive speaking today in south korea. he is quite clear there are sanctions ready but they need to keep some arrows in their quiver in the event that the situation escalates in the days and weeks to come. thank you very much. last week, probably you and others spent $60 billion on something. morgan spurlock will tell us what it is next. nny. scotts wraps each seed in a brilliant water smart plus coating, that feeds, protects, and holds in moisture to make growing thicker, healthier grass easier. now let's spread your newfound knowledge! seed your lawn. seed it! to truck guys, the truck is everything. and when you put them in charge of making an unbeatable truck... ... good things happen. this is the ram 1500. the 2014 motor trend

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$60 billion, that is how much money americans spent on their pets last year. for more on america's animal obsession, we turn to cnn's "inside man," morgan spurlock. people have all sorts of pets, pigs, chickens, what is the strangest thing you saw? >> well, when you work at an animal shelter they will take any animals. so if you have a horse you can drop off a horse or a ferret, or chickens that they have. what you do start to realize is

we have a connection with our pets, not only do we spend more money on buying pet supplies but we could adopt them from animal shelters. for me, what i realized is that nobody should be buying a pet from a pet store. there are so many dogs and cats out there that you could take home tomorrow that we could. >> i grew up at the beach. at the end of the summer there would be all of these pets abandoned. it must have been heartbreaking. i have a question, the pets and the hair -- >> and clothes. >> one, pets and clothes i hate. you shouldn't put the pets in clothes. >> i mean, they have pride even though they don't know how to express it. >> and you shouldn't carry around an animal that has twice as many legs. an animal that has four legs should not be carried by me. >> i love that, can't wait to see it. and don't miss morgan spurlock's inside man, right here at 10

p.m. on cnn, and who doesn't want to watch a little tiny cat drinking out of a three-inch bottle. doesn't get cuter than that. all right, thank you for joining us. we'll see you back here on monday night, 7:00 eastern, anderson cooper "ac360" starts right now. good evening. 8:00 p.m. here, 8:00 a.m. in the search for flight 370. there is word that the flight search has been expected to move. in addition, new theories about what happened, shark reacti sha what happened to it. and all the angles ahead. also, take a look. this is happening to more and more children, rare childhood diseases, preventible ones that could do much more worse things that raise a rash. we begin with breaking news at a crucial phase in the search for flight 37