"reliable sources" starts right now. >> good morning, and thank you for tuning in to "reliable sources" today. i'm brian pinter and thanks for joining us today. the interview today is with barry diller. he co-starred the fox network and is now head of the company iac. he also has what, for him, is a relatively small investment in a start-up area. it's a company that uses thousands of old-fashioned antennas to transfer old tv stations via the internet. in some markets you can sign up for just $8 a month. you get the big broadcast networks and that's why those networks want to kill aerial. cnn is not part of the lawsuit

but it is supporting the broadcasters in an effort against aereo. it was even more majestic than i imagined. it was barry diller's first time there, too. what you're about to see is his first and only interview about the hearing. we started out talking about the last time a major media case came before the supreme court. it was the betamax case 30 years ago which turned out to be a landmark supreme court decision which changed our lives to make it legal to record tv programs at home. i want you to listen to what diller has to say about how this case could change our lives, too. >> i always thought that aereo very, very much was simply a technological update to the betamax case which is why i think the most interesting way to look at aereo is to look back

and say, what if what happened instead, what if they had shut it down? what would our life be like -- what would our television and communications be like without the videotape recorder or the dvr or all the technology that followed that? what if that had been shut down? it's almost like saying, when we think about these things we think, well, what if there was no telephone? what if they never did that thing? in this case, what if -- you just can't conceive of it. what if the telephone one day in its early development, they said, i can't do this. you can't even conceive of what life would be when you look back that far and say, well, the supreme court could have relatively easily, certainly

every vested interest at the time wanted to stop it. all of the content owners said, how dare you think thuk report our program and not pay us every ti time. progress happened. i believe that aereo was the same thing. if they stop it, which they very well may, then i don't think it's the end of any world because we'll probably not really know because you can't put yourself 20 years -- you can't make that leap on a maybe-kind of. but what i think will happen is if it's stopped, it will have profound effects on the development of technology. >> not the end of the world but very troubling. >> look, aereo as a financial

issue for my company is meaningless. it is possibly an alternative to a completely closed system, and i like that. i've always liked that in my life. that's why i started fox broadcasting, because i said i'd like an alternative to threet networks. >> if aereo wins, you don't think it will hurt the broadcasters? >> aereo won't hurt the broadcasters for sure. what could happen is other people will find other methodologies separate from aereo based upon the consumer's right to receive three broadcast

networks. congress can change the law, and it's what makes me mad about this. they've just been dopey because the essence of it is that aereo is essentially simply an antenna device that replaces technologically what you used to have to do to go up to your rooftop and erect an antenna. now what the media repertoire has been is that aereo is a gimmick. judge rogers asked a question, which was, you're only doing this to get around the copyright laws? >> was he wrong about that? >> the truth is not only is he

wrong, what we are doing is complying with the law. so rather than saying it's a gimmick is constructed is law as the way we understood it. broadcasters get a free spectrum. up until technology came along, there was no issue with that because that was the only way you could get it. cable comes along, all these things come along, all these things happen, retrends -- i'm not going to try to dwin that for the audience, but the one fundamental broadcasting since the very beginning is if you can put your finger out there and

you are interested in programming, you can get that out there for free. people did not think at the time they wrote these rules that, in fact, people would construct themselves out of used scrap and wires and antenna. they would actually go to a store, buy the antenna, have somebody put it up. that profit must be the profit in there or you wouldn't provide a service. that belongs to the broadcaster? that belongs to the programming? that's absurd. that's all aereo is, a technological update to -- and a clever one. to me without question it's clever. and its technology is quite

sophisticated. >> thft people covering this. . all the quarrel is about the questions the judges asked, not any of the answers given. i think to concentrate all the questions asked, what does that do? they were all answered sketchily. the questions to the broadcaster were skeptical. the questions to aereo were skeptical. >> i thought they were a little tougher on aereo, though. what did you think? >> no, i didn't listen.

i tried very hard to say don't apply your acts, just listen. >> you've always said there's no plan b. if aereo loses in supreme court, it's over. do you think it will lose? >> i think there's a 50% chance it will lose, of course. yes. always i thought that. but i think it's -- i did not think that it would become this important a moment in the world of technology. >> when you say change the way we watch tv, aereo, if it's

successful together with other services, may change and give competition to the closed system of satellite or cable. that's what it may do. >> now all that's left is for the supreme court justices to rule, and they're expected to do so in this case in the early summer. i need to get to a commercial here, but in just a moment we're going to talk about this time of day, sunday mornings. it seems like there's always drama on tv. when you're supposed to watch it. when we come back, we'll talk to "meet the press." if you wear a denture, touch it with your tongue.

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and prevents gum irritation. fixodent. and forget it. hope you're having a good sunday morning and i want to talk about sunday morning television. with my next two guests, i want to discuss what the panic button

sometimes looks like. but first a little history about a historic program "meet the press." in the years since timothy presser died, "meet the press" has gone down in ratings. the successor, david gregory, has gotten the blame for it. here's how the "washington post" reported this week. last year the network undertook an unusual assessment of the 43-year-old journalist, commissioned a psychological consultant to interview his friends and even his wife. the idea, according to a network spokeswoman, was to get insight from the people he knew best. they brought in a grand consultant, not a psychological one. they said it was utter fiction.

the consultant does branding work but has an advanced degree in psychology. so that explains that. but let's get to the bigger point here. at home you might be wondering what does a news division do studying brant? what does it have to do with journalism? more than you think. the president of general strategy and the president of cbs news. gentlemen, thank you both for joining me. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> jack, tell me how common the use of television is in evening news. >> television is a difficult business. it's a challenging business. i thought it was interesting you said when ratings go up, tension goes up. there are tensions every day.

it's a large industry that serves an important purpose both in notifying the public of what's going on in their society, but it's also a big business. >> the way you say it to the deli beast this week, if you can get more information about how david gregory can be a better david, that makes sense. >> well, it's one of the many challenges to anyone on television. television is a personal media done in a very impersonal way. when you got this job, they probably said, brian, just be yourself, right? that's a hard thing to do with lights in your face and makeup on your face and having to think fast in essentially a live environment. >> andrew, you are consulted as well. you help media companies understand digital media, how to go about all the changes in the digital age. how did you employ consultants? what did they do and what did

they bring to the table? >> in our case, we didn't, really. cbs news didn't use consultants. i didn't see a single one in about my 25 years there. that's not to say i don't think they have a role. i think television news is a group of authenticitauthenticit. i hope it's working. >> it's working. >> too much makeup would make us look ghoulish. i think the same goes with too much consulting. the very best things we've seen on tv are not consultant driven. take a look at cbs sunday morning, for example. i don't think a consultant would improve of a program that's slow-paced with high pollutant story selection, yet it's an enormous show -- >> highest rated show on sunday morning television. >> that's correct. so there's good consultants and bad consultants. good consultants can help with

strategy, bad consultants just help with sameness. there w when you see reporters waving their hands all the time and try to look animated, that can be a consultant's fault. >> can you see how they might get sensitive about that? >> in the purest form, you won even look at ratings, right? you would do what you think is important and look at no feedback whatsoever. i think what jack is saying makes perfect sense which is to know the context is valuable, but ultimately you have to rely on your journalistic judgment and how you serve the public. it's a tool. it can be overused and abused. >> and i've heard there's false piety on this subject. people might want to pretend there's not a problem, pretend there's not a business, pretend

they're not disturbed by this. but they are across the board. >> i don't care i don't think we should overstate it. i think the best things we see in tv news is not because consultants are prescribing what to do, it's because men and women of experience are doing good programming. >> so interview his wife, even, is that even who are doing shows about this. >> what that tells me is nbc is serious about helping one of their franchises. it's important to "meet the press", and someone who is as dedicated as david gregory, then i hope that it helped. >> tom brokaw addresed that in

pl politico. let me read the quote. it remains a very important four hours of television, but i long for more imagination, new voices and more outside looking in, new voices and bold choices. what you're hoping for versus keeping the viewers there and seemingly satisfied with what they're seeing is the overarching view on television in general, not just saturday mornings, right? >> yeah, tom brokaw sounds like the consultant you were talking about earlier. the biggest challenge of any business is to innovate while protecting the business that they have. and we are at a unique time in the media industry in which. >> brian, just to add to that, i agree. news is different than

entertainment. entertainment thrives on the next fresh, shiny thing. news franchises tend to be durable. in fact, they grow with strength and time. taking sunday programs that's very durable and tinkering with it is different than starting a program like "csi" or changing the host on a late night entertainment show. they are really built on familiarity and comfort. as you pointed out, bob schaefer is the king of the hill right now. >> i'm going to steal a word from earlier. i think this is a very illuminating conversation and i thank you both for joining me. >> thanks very much. >> thanks, brian. two more notes about the network sunday shows. amid all the media coverage about david gregory this week, a media came out to publicly declare her support and their

support for him. he's not going anywhere any time soon. george stefanopolous renewed his contract on abc and you can read about that on cnn.com. coming up, the risks and rewards of tornado chasing. i went out on assignment with the "new york times" last year with a chaser, so i think i can safely say these guys are crazy. i'm going to talk to one of them and he's chasing storms this weekend. you'll want to hear a little more about how his job works. stay tuned. weekdays are for rising to the challenge.

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welcome back to "reliable sources." what i'm about to show you is a tornado that stretched across more area than any other, the widest in recorded history. it was the el reno, oklahoma tornado on may 1st of last year. it measured over 236 miles across. 300 people died in that storm, including storm chasers. among them, a team from the weather channel. as the storm approached, their truck was caught right in the middle. they tumbled hundreds of yards into a field, destroying the vehicle and injuring the passengers. one of them was mike bettes, veteran meteorologist and storm chaser. he was also newly married at the time. he did an interview soon after it happened. watch. >> what is it that you thought about when you were up there?

>> i just saw my wife's face, and i thought, you know, that's -- you know, that's my life and i don't want to give that up just yet. and thankfully i don't have to. >> spring is here again and another tornado season is upon us. the weather channel has a new truck. mike bettes is going back out chasing this weekend for the first time since el reno. i get glued to this stuff when it's on tv. a lot of people, including maybe me, think he's crazy to go out there doing this. mike, thanks for joining me. >> hey, you, too, brian. >> what made you decide to go

back out there today? >> the plan is to be back out there again. i was one of those people that was very skeptical afterwards whether i go back out again or not. i think i would be regretting the decision if i didn't go back out this year. >> what are the purposes of live tornado tracking on tv? i remember when i got to meet you was the day after the devastating tornado in joplin, missouri, you were one of the first reporters on the scene because you were tracking that storm when it happened. when we talked the next day, you said part of the purpose of this coverage is to entertain, the other part is to inform. is that fair, that there's this balance between both? >> i think there is a balance between both. there are so many people out there that are weather enthusiasts, weather is their hobby, and they enjoy seeing what mother nature can do. the feedback we've gotten, people are learning a lot about what we do out there. they're learning about the structure of storms, they're learning how tornadoes form, how they move.

even if nature can be erratic, i think we can learn a lot from witnessing and seeing them on tv. i think it's proof of what meteorologists see on radar. >> what we've seen quite a few times in recent years does make people more aware of it. they do take the threat nor serio -- more seriously when they can see the pictures. >> i've talked to psychologists afterwards that said, i didn't think it could happen to me. i think there is that cry wolf syndrome because now when people get the tornado warning, the first thing they want to do is run to the front door and see if they can see it. if they can see it, they believe it. for us, if we can show them that tornado and they can believe it and take their family and kids to the basement and they're safe, that's exactly what we're looking for. >> here's the thing, you were right on the tail in that tornado in joplin, you were caught up in the el reno

tornado. have you taken too many risks in the past? >> listen, there is an inherent danger in being out there and observing severe weather. there just is a risk no matter how safe you are. i think that there are times, at least in the el reno tornado in particular last year, where we were actually broadcasting that tornado, brian, and against all instincts that i have as a broadcaster, we had this big, massive tornado, biggest i've ever seen, i said, we have to quit broadcastlinbroadcasting. but the meteorologist in me said let's get back in our cars and get away from this. we just didn't have time. it expanded, as you mentioned, over 200 miles wide and it eventually caught us. thankfully we were able to walk away from us, but lesson learned for a lot of chasers that day, being in a tighter situation than they anticipated, us included. >> how does your wife feel about you going back out? i covered hurricane sandy like

so many reporters a couple years ago, and my wife was not very pleased that i was not home with her when that storm was hitting the mid-atlantic. i don't know if she would let me go tornado chasing. what did you and your wife talk about? >> it's a very interesting dynamic in my family because my wife is also a meteorologist, and we've chased before. she was none too happy, trust me. she was none too happy that it happened but she understands. she understands that tornadoes are in my blood and this is what i do. >> but seriously, how did you convince your wife that this was acceptable again? was she really okay with it? >> she is. i think she realized that day there were a lot of things at play that caused our accident to happen and things that we take extra precautions this year to make sure things don't happen again. we have our same crew together this year that we've had together for the past six years. that familiarity, having the same crew together, making sure

that safety is first and foremost and broadcasting is secondary, i think that is really what's going to keep us out of harm's way this year and still be a great experience on tv, but we need to learn by example, and i think this year is our priority, lead by example and be safe. >> mike, stay safe and thanks for joining me. >> thanks, brian. >> i think as long as we keep watching, people like mike will still be out there chasing. time for a break here, but when i get back, it's time for red news blue news. i have two words for you, funding.

. welcome back. it is time again for my regular feature red news blue news where

i analyze how the partisan media on the right and the left tell the same story in remarkably different ways. this was red news until it suddenly turned into blue news. let me explain what it means. bundy is in the middle of a cultural war which seemed to turn into a range war. bundy's cattle is on federal land, but since he refused to pay his grazing fees, they came to seize his cattle. they came armed and so did bundy's supporters. he was either an american patriot fighting for his rights or a lawbreaker that he should either pay up or go to jail. two different stories. on the left, nbc did pay some attention to this story early on. here's chris hayes trying to put it into context. >> people who break or are suspected of breaking the law find themselves staring into

armed law enforcement officials every single day in this country. but the better question, i think, when is it that people take up arms with the state and federal governments, point their weapons at federal agents and face no consequences for it? >> that's some blue news, but for the most part, this was red news, a focus on the right. sean hannity leading the way. here he is entering viewing bundy on the right. >> you talk about a range war with the federal government. there are a lot of people out there, now that they're taking your cattle, that are fearful that this is another waco situation. ruby ridge has gom come up in s articles. what do you mean by range war? how far are you willing to take this? >> and again, a week later after the government surrendered, hannity kept bringing up worst case scenarios about what might happen to bundy in the future. >> what would happen? god forbid, we saw the raid with gonzalez.

i'm not sure if you remember that raid. what would happen if they came to the early morning hours one day to your ranch? >> for hannity, this was not just a news story. this was part of a narrative. watch this, see what i mean. >> i have to be honest, i'm worried about the encroachment of our federal government that spies on us illegally. we now know we have a government that harasses, intimidates, tries to silence voices. i'm worried about the nsa, the irs, about what happened in benghazi and the lies that sold health care. >> so that's hannity's narrative. but others on fox were not so quick to embrace funding. on thursday they were the people saying, i told you so. that's the day the "new york times" published those quotes you've seen all over the place, quotes that show bundy's backwards racist attitudes. fox news instantly cut back on the amount of stories that aired

about bundy and nbc ratcheted it up. this is what they call the boomerang part of the story. that was my attempt at a boomerang. rally around someone, like donald trump, for example. then that someone said something basically indefensible and then the left seized on the story. bundy became a big story on cnn toward the end of the week, partly because he agreed to come on the channel several times for interviews. and those interviews breathed new life into the controversy. by then, of course, fox had already moved on to another land dispute, this one in texas. they were continuing to talk about government overreach, but not about bundy. i can't believe i'm about to say this, but maybe more people should have listened to one of those boomerangs a mentioned. mr. trump. here's what happened on april 16 when hannity asked trump about the rancher.

>> you do have a certain law, you know. i mean, you have it all throughout the united states and they pay their fees and all sorts of grazing fees and things i'm not so accustomed to. if i were cliven and i like him and i like his spirit and spunk, i do like him. he ought to go and cut a deal with somebody. that's the best thing. >> trump's words of wisdom. look me up on twitter and facebook. my user name is brian seltzer. i like your feedback. we got a lot of feedback that caused all hell to break loose. there were conspiracy theories and i'm going to try to clear it all up, after this.

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comcast business built for business. last week on this program, former cbs news investigate or correspondent sharyl attkisson made some accusations. she said obama backed stories that were critical of the obama administration. then she made a critical accusation. it was against a group. they were looking for conservative bias and people like me get alerts from media matters every time they think they find it. there are dozens of political groups that try to influence the media in all sorts of ways. but how successful are they? how much do groups like media matters influence the news you

watch and read? that's what i want to talk about this morning, and starting with what sharyl attkisson said last week. media matters name names whenever they see something they think is outrageous and then they try to poke holes, like in some of attkisson's. >> i certainly was friendly with them as anybody, good information can come from any source. but then when i persisted with fast and furious and some of the green energy stories i was doing, i quickly became a target -- i don't know if someone paid them to do it or they just took it on their own -- >> do you think that's possible, that someone paid them? >> they get contributions from -- >> to particularly target you? >> i think that's what some of these groups do, absolutely. >> i don't know if someone paid them to do it. that's the key quote. those comments were picked up right away by blogs last sunday. they were also rebuked right

away by media matters. there was another eyebrow raising thing that attkisson said to me last week and it was this. they use it to work on stories. it triggered headlines to that effect on blogs all over the web. so what does media matters really do and what do they not do? joining me now is the founder, david brock. david, thank you for being on. z . >> thanks for having me. >> does media matters specifically target an accusation? >> no, our donors are funding us because they want discourse, fact-based journalism and push-back on the fact-based controversy. if people knew a little bit about how they worked, i can tell you in the sharyl attkisson case, we are almost 24-7 a range

of political active media. they came on the mainstream in the course of events. we noticed a pattern of misinformation in her work. we posted critiques on our website of her work. it was accurate, she didn't say we were wrong about anything, and that's what we do at media matters. >> you do pursue individual journalists who you feel are inaccurate or who are biased? >> sure we do. and it's well beyond sharyl attkisson. we're watching, we're monitoring all the national journalism. and once we start to see patterns, we will stay on a story just like a journalist will stay on a story. in her case, we did stay on her story. as i said, she did not say we got anything wrong in the critiques we made. she seemed comfortable coming out here and saying that we

worked with her previously, we worked with her on stories. i don't know anything specifically about that. i have no reason to doubt that. >> on fox news, media matters gets painted no, it's -- i mean, we appreciate his agagenerosity hea main donor but not a huge percentage of the budget. we have a diverse funding base. we're not beholden to anybody. >> what percentage would come from soros? >> less than 10%. >> a diverse number of donors but they have the same interest, don't they? same liberal politics at heart? >> sure. i mean, i think their interest is in honest journalism and a fair debate, and i think we think -- and i think our donors believe -- in a vast majority of cases if people get accurate information rather than misinformation that's going to serve the progressive cause, sure. and here open about the fact

we're a liberal organization. it done mean our facts are wrong. >> let's talk about what kinds of assistance media matters does and doesn't provide. i'm on the e-mail list that other reporters are on, i see the e-mails when you noticed conservative outrage, for example, something that rush limbaugh says that is out of line. it'll me about the assistance you provide. >> we are sometimes a source of news ourselves in this past week, the story of the racist rancher from nevada. we watch fox news so you don't have to. so we are seeing what's going on in the buildup of the fellow as some sort of patriot and when it all unravelled in an interview with "the new york times" the racist rancher claimed he was misquoted. we're the first organization to find the videotape that found the actual quote and that got played all over the television in the last few days, and na was helpful to the new york sometimes. we have can a construct everybody relationship wit the press.

the third way, we do work to get retractions or apologies from -- and redress of situations where we feel that something's been said that's false or wrong. >> you're saying it's perfectly normal, and viewers, readers, they should be aware that groups like yours do provide basically raw material to materials but it's the reporters the ones producing the content? >> that's right. there are conservative groups that are out there also trying to influence and shape media coverage. there's nothing unusual about that. they seem to be particularly incensed about media matters' relationship with the media. maybe we're doing a better job than they are, i don't know what the frustration comes from. but, yeah, these groups have existed for a long time and i think it's an important part of journalism and i think it's an important part of keeping democracy strong, all sides are being watched. >> david brock, thank you for coming on and telling me more about what media matters does and doesn't do. >> thank you.

>> one of the chief rivals to media matters on the right. we tried to book him. we'll talk about what his group does and doesn't do. >> what media news to look out for for the week ahead. stay with me. i'm j-a-n-e and i have copd. i'm d-a-v-e and i have copd. i'm k-a-t-e and i have copd, but i don't want my breathing problems to get in the way my volunteering. that's why i asked my doctor about b-r-e-o. once-daily breo ellipta helps increase airflow from the lungs for a full 24 hours. and breo helps reduce symptom flare-ups that last several days and require oral steroids, antibiotics, or hospital stay. breo is not for asthma. breo contains a type of medicine that increases risk of death in people with asthma.

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finally this morning, a look ahead to what's making med. >> reporter: news this coming week. that's the white house correspondence dinner, it takes place next saturday night. it's a washington tradition, happens every spring. and i personally like to tune in to see president obama, in this case, gently roasting the press corps, at our expense. that's all for this edition of "reliable sources" but weep it mind we go on the reliable sources blog and cnn.com. set your dvr if you're away from the tv. up next, news update followed by state of the union with candy crowley. good morning. live in washington, with the a check of the top stories. the longtime owner of the l.a. clippers is under fire this morning after racist comments he

allegedly said were made public. tmz posted the recording it claims as donald sterling arguing with his girlfriend, seen in these pictures the man aalleged to be sterling said they doesn't want her associating with african-americans, like magic johnson at clippers games we have not confirmed the recording is authentic but the news reached president obama, who answered a question about it in malaysia. >> ignorant folks between advertise their ignore manse, you don't have to do anything, you let them talk, and that's what happened here. >> the nba says it is investigating. the south korean prime minister resigned after taking responsibility for his government's response in the deadly ferry disaster. he apologized to grieving families and said their cries keep him up at night. seoul has been criticized for the slow proresponse to the tragedy. 115 are still missing.

here in the u.s., a look at radar in glen rock, arkansas one of several states bracing for an outbreak of severe weather today. there are already severe watches and warnings in oklahoma and kansas. almost 20 million people live in the path of the storm system. i'm erin mcpike in washington. "state of the union" with candy crowley starts right now. no trade deal with japan. putin stays put, and israeli-palestinian peace talks fall apart. today when the world's only superpower talks, does anyone listen? >> one of my jobs as president is to worry about a bunch of different problems at the same time and not just pick and choose which problems that i have the luxury to worry about. obama foreign policy, a conversation with the deputy national security adviser, tony blinken. and coming up empty, a u.s. effort to