hope we can all tell the difference. i'm bill weir, thanks for being here tonight. cnn's special report with don lemon starts right now. this is a cnn special report, i'm don lemon. monica lewinsky's bombshell article in "vanity fair" hits newsstands tomorrow, but we got our hands on it tonight. who's really to blame for her troubles? and the donald sterling trauma, you may hate what he said, but did he have the right to say it? with a legal war brewing against the nba, is the amendment on donald sterling's side? could he take the entire league down with him? legal experts and attorneys are here to debate. well, last night i got bashed right here on my own show. why? just for being honest, for telling what i think to be the truth about monica lewinsky, that she is partly to blame for the whole mess in which she's trying to claw back. bill clinton is partially

responsible, as well. bill clinton said, i did something terrible just because i could. i think that's about the most morally indefensible reason anybody could have for doing everything. tonight, monica lewinsky by her own doing is back in the spotlight after 15 years with a revealing article in "vanity fair." america loves a comeback and monica has never been able to garner herself one. i believe the public has largely moved on but she has not. she is stuck. i am happy that she has now realized that it is time for her to own her own destiny. because i was reprimanded by almost every one of my guests, tonight i got new ones. let's have at it. that was a joke, by the way. emily shirer is a report for the daily beast and amy holmes, michael levine is here, and, sally khan is a cnn political comment at a time tor and mel robins is a cnn commentator and cnn analyst, as well.

if you think i was hard on monica lewinsky, check out the cover of the new york post. this is what the "new york post says." my life sucks! >> is that what she's been dealing with all these years? >> yes. i know the trolls are going to come out online and people will start attacking her, especially women, which i find appalling, but the real terrible parking lot of this story is just how deep her suffering was. i mean, everyone wants to say, hey, that's 16 years ago, you should have moved on by now. >> it was. >> yes, of course it was. but it's always in her face, don. when beyonce drops partition to the world and she's reduced to a line in a song equating her name with ejaculation, how do you move on, don? >> listen, i have empathy for her. i felt sorry for her 15 years ago. those poor girls in ohio have pulled themselves out of a basement in one year. >> they had the world rooting for them and monica had no one. >> but monica needs -- >> she needs to root for

herself. >> thank you very much. >> she needs to root for herself. i agree with you entirely, don. i had sympathy then and i have sympathy now for monica lewinsky being a 21-year-old girl who was dazzled, flattered to have the attentions of the president of the united states. 40-year-old women fell under his spell, as well, but at age 40 to come out on "vanity fair" in a red brocade couch, by the way, lounging on it in a glamour shot and have this first personal that's me, me, me, me and hasn't been gainfully employed for the last 15 years because the only job she's looking for is in pr, this is ridiculous. if this was sudan where we learn the real meaning of suffering and survival, we might have more respect for the 40-year-old monica lewinsky. >> wow. only one way to redeem yourselves on these terms. >> best way is to take your destiny into your own hands. >> which is what she's doing, don. >> we'll talk more. let's hear what she had to say,

okay? she said, i sorely wished for some sign of understanding from the feminist camp. some good old-fashioned girl on girl support was much in need. none came. given the issues at play -- gender politics, sex in the workplace -- you'd think they would have spoken up. they didn't. i understood their dilemma. bill clinton had been a president friendly to women's causes. why was that and does that continue to be the case today? >> as you said, we've moved on. we've moved on, bill clinton has been allowed to move on -- >> before you finish, i don't know if that's shaming her -- she's saying it's not supporting her, it's not necessarily shaming her. >> they have been shaming her. >> why do you think she hasn't gotten the support, so to speak, from the girls, as she put it? >> to be honest, i'm not really sure. i think a big part of it is that it was a national embarrassment

that a lot of us don't want to talk about, so it's really easy to feed into the desire to bury monica lewinsky under the rug, whether you're a feminist or not. i think she's also right about what she said. bill clinton, yes, was very friendly to female-focused causes. it feels very uncomfortable to go after him for taking advantage and abuse of power with this woman and letting him move on and to have awards heaped upon him, but you have monica lewinsky expecting to go to sudan if we ever forgive her. >> but bill clinton didn't hide. he said, okay, yes, i did it. the quote that i read in the beginning of the show. he didn't hide. he was the president. she hid. sally, i'm going to let you respond but let me give you this quote because i want to hear as much from monica lewinsky as we can. she also said, it always seems like the woman always takes the fall. sure, the anthony weiners and the eliot spitzers do what they need to do to look humiliated on cable news.

they bow out of public life for a while, but they inevitably return, having put it all behind them. the women in these imbroglios return to lives that are not so easily repaired. they're reported with sex jokes and black socks jokes. >> no one is immune from comedians, nobody is saying that. but the reality is it's not like bill clinton didn't choose to hide, it's not like monica tried to hide. she tried to get gainful employment and kept getting turned away because of the scandal, and i think we have to realize what this constant scandal machine does -- >> she tried to get gainful employment but she didn't get the job she thought was appropriate for her. i would like to have oprah's job but i have to take the job that was given to me.

go on. >> it doesn't sound like she was trying to apply for jobs that were beyond her reach, but here's the point. bill clinton wasn't even asked to hide, right? he was able to maintain his leadership as this great statesman. fine. look at david vitter. look at spitzer and weiner. sure, she haven't had the political success they want to have, but they still have pretty successful and profitable careers and the women tarnished. this is a pattern over and over again. we want to forget but we're not allowed to. >> you're in politics, you know spitzer and weiner keep coming back. >> because they're shameless and they benefit from male privilege. >> i agree that the criticism of monica lewinsky at the time was terribly unfair and vicious and sexist and also perpetrated by hillary clinton, let's remember. did she put out word that monica lewinsky was a deranged stalker? we learned now that she considered her a narcissistic looney tune and she tried to

undermine this woman trying to work for the most powerful man in the world. >> speaking of male privilege, the only male on the panel is not getting much privilege besides me. >> i don't know how i ended up with such a shy group of ladies. what is true is that certain people are very good at creating their own narrative, and some people are not. and she isn't. it is true to say that she simply was not able, for whatever reason over the last 15 years, to create an alternative narrative. bill clinton is one of the great narrative creators of all time. he was, she wasn't. in the end, people are where they are because of who they are. if they don't create their own narrative, history will do it for them.

>> i get it, it has a lot to do with narrative, but bill clinton had the money and power. and she was suicidal. let's not forget -- >> stand by, stand by. it's not the first time monica lewinsky has tried to shed her past and move on. she has tried commercials, interviews, a handbag line. we'll take a look at all that and what could be next for her. that's all right after the break.

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i'm back now with my very heated panel of women and one gentleman. monica lewinsky has tried to before. will this time be different? here's jean casarez.

>> reporter: this isn't the first time monica lewinsky has tried to reinvent herself. from "saturday night live" back in 1999 to interviews. >> i was a 22-year-old foolish kid. >> the results were uneven at best. she now tells vanity fair, i was arguably the most humiliated person in the world. an endorsement for the diet company jenny craig doesn't last long because of negative reaction. a line of handbags is a flop. and a tell-all book does little to leave the scandal behind. mike paul says at first she makes all the wrong decisions. >> she ran towards reality television. she ran towards making sure she had a book out to deal with the situation. she didn't say, i'm done with this. i really want to get my life back. and to prove i want to get my life back, i'm not going to touch this issue at all. >> reporter: to escape, she

heads to grad school to the prestigious london school of economics and largely avoids public life for ten years. >> she reached a level of fame, notoriety, that has just proven impossible to overcome. she is simply too famous, it seems, to have a normal life. >> reporter: after getting a masters, lewinsky tells vanity fairy moved between london, los angeles, new york and portland, oregon, interviewing for a variety of jobs. yet because of what potential employers so tactfully referred to as my history, i was never quite right for the position. she says potential backlash from the clintons hurt her in job interviews. legal analyst jeffrey toobin says other key players in the scandal damaged her more. >> the people who made monica lewinsky a public figure were ken starr's prosecutors. the last thing bill clinton wanted was for her to be a

public figure at all. >> reporter: paul says her troubles stemmed less from the president than the incident herself. >> the situation didn't ruin her life, public opinion didn't ruin her life. her decision to have a relationship with a married man who happened to be the president of the united states ruined her life. >> reporter: lewinsky now says it's time to burn the beret and the blue dress and move forward. >> reporter: what advice would you give her from this point on? >> i think the biggest piece of advice i would be giving her right now is unless she owns her behavior 110% and isn't seen as blaming others, this crisis will continue. >> reporter: jean casarez, cnn, new york. >> good words to end on. panel, before i bring you all back in, when you hear the word "intern," you think an 18, 19-year-old. she was 22, between 22 and 25. people go off to war at those ages.

we send kids off to war. >> your brain is not fully developed. what's your point? >> it's not right, either. >> my mom had all of -- my mom had all three of us, she had a mortgage and was going through a divorce. >> come on! >> she had responsibilities. >> this was a 22-year-old against a president, though. that's a complete imbalance of power. >> she sees the relationship as entirely consensual. you can't move on from a narrative if you haven't moved on in your life. and you can't say you're moving on in your life while you're still wallowing in a story and writing a 1500-word essay for vanity fair where you're lounging on a couch and talking endlessly about this moment in your life when you were 22. >> let's get to what she said, okay? you saw in jean's piece she's having a rough time rebuilding her life. she said, i turned down offers that would earn me more than $10 million because they didn't feel like the right thing to do. over time, the media circus

quieted down, but it never quite moved on, even as i attempted to move on. >> the bad choices i made when i was 22, 23, 24 don't stick with me for 20 years. they don't become a national scandal. my name doesn't become infamous with scandal. again, i don't think we should have played the blame monica game 15 years ago. i think it's wrong to play it now. this second judging her, insulting her for her choices, giving her a hard time -- >> i don't think anyone on the panel is blaming her. >> she's trying to get the wrong jobs and she's not getting -- >> what we're blaming her for is not moving on, and when she writes in this article, unlike the other parties involved, i was so young that i had no established identity to which i could return. i couldn't return to being president, and be built up by a big machine. she was in her 20s without the

capability. >> no one is saying blame her, people are saying take responsibility for what happened -- hang on -- take responsibility for what happened in your life, your decisions, and move on. nobody is blaming her for anything. >> you don't like the timeline. you once said to me something that was so profound. you said, i try to be curious instead of judgmental. and one of the things that's been curious to learn -- >> i'm curious to learn why she hasn't moved on. >> she doesn't have the psychological stamina that some other people do. >> at 40 years old. >> don't you find the fact that we're all discussing this, that she's still so incredibly newsworthy, that everybody wants to still pick apart the details of this -- >> the only reason she's newsworthy is because she's on the cover of vanity fair. otherwise no one would be talking about it. >> wait a second, wait a second, there are lots of pieces written for vanity fair we don't talk about. she's still newsworthy, she's still selacious, she's still a hot button issue. i think she's right about this,

she was the first scandal character of the sort of media frenzy and particularly the media machine destroyed her and they're still doing it. >> i wouldn't have read this unless we were talking about this on the show. i might have read it in vanity fair when i was getting a pedicure sometime in august. >> i told this story, i met monica lewinsky in the '90s at a restaurant, spoke to her, whatever. i was with a group of friends. no one really cared that much. it wasn't that big a deal. once she found out what i did, she scurried away with her friends and didn't want to talk with us. i wasn't going to run back to the station i work for and say about monica lewinsky. she cared more about it than i did and obviously she had issues of trust. that's why i say it's in her head more than other people's heads. when this happened, 16 years ago, voting age now don't even remember the monica lewinsky

scandal. it doesn't even matter. so here's the thing, monica. you're clearly a bright, young woman but for other people who rely on grants and funding, it's risky. we would first need a letter of indemnification from the clintons. after all, there is a 25% chance that mrs. clinton will be the next president. does that sound plausible? >> any bright young woman should have a bright future if she's willing to change the narrative. the four rules of working with crisis are pretty simple. you have to act quickly, you have to act with personal responsibility, you have to act with contrition and you have to act with humility. in all areas she gets a d or f. she didn't act quickly, she didn't act with personal responsibility, she continues to blame her destiny on outside forces.

that's a losing strategy in middle america in this day and age. >> initially she went after charity fields. those are tough to land. what else could she have pursued? >> she has a degree, she has apparently a good credential. she had plenty of opportunities to create an entrepreneur sense, but she didn't. i can tell you she wasn't able to change the scenario effectively and efficiently, and there she is, 15 years later, regurgitating the same story line that we thought we were done with many years ago. >> emily, this is a tweet and it's from cool green pines, and it says, excuse me, don.

why hasn't lewinsky changed her name? that would be my first declaration towards a new life, like hello! why do you think she didn't change her name, and would that be the first sign of moving on? do you think she needs to do that? >> i think that's the first sign of mud slinging saying if you want to live a normal life, go hide yourself. where is she taking personal responsibility? she's saying, no, i participated. this was completely consensual. we're saying she needed to change her name and hide. that is the definition of mud slinging. coming up, adultery inside the white house and a president impeached. with hillary clinton possibly running again, is there still a lewinsky factor? that's next. latte or au lait?

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welcome back, everyone. be prepared. monica lewinsky tells vanity fair she was the most humiliated person in the world for a good many years, but the first family that was rocked by the scandal bounced back stronger than ever, and i'm back now with my guests. so hillary clinton is currently the front runner for the democratic nomination, and here's what monica lewinsky has to say about that in vanity fair. recently i found myself gunshy again, fearful of becoming an issue. should she decide to ramp up her campaign, but should i put my life on hold for another 10 years? do you think she will this time now that she's back in the news?

>> i think there will be a question or two and that's it. the fact she came out this early is actually a favor to hillary clinton, because people will be done with this and hopefully monica will be, too. >> monica already raised the question should hillary clinton worry that she get near the white house ever again, but -- >> amy, amy, why is it if her husband ever gets near the white house again? what does that have to do with hillary clinton? >> if he's roaming the halls and we know he has his predatory behavior, will hillary clinton answer the question? you're laughing, but as we also know, hillary clinton used the power of the office and the press to smear monica lewinsky which monica talks about in this piece. so hillary clinton's behavior also should be under scrutiny in the way she handles all of this

that surrounds the clintons endlessly. >> i've said this, maybe the best to come out of this would be if hillary had a chance to rethink and apologize for the way she dealt with monica way back when. but let's be clear about why we're talking about this and why republicans will want to keep talking about this which is the little known fact is that monica lewinsky is the way the president pronounced benghazi in the 1990s. they can't find a scandal to stick on hillary today, so they're getting in the delorean and going back to the 1990s. >> i'm surprised you're saying that about monica lewinsky the way hillary dealt with her -- maybe i don't know everything that she said, but i thought she only said she was sort of narcissistic, whatever, and as a scorned wife, i thought that was pretty, you know, aboveboard. most wives would have a lot more to say. i'm surprised that you would say that. >> again, i'm talking about the whole clinton machine and how

they're surrogates to monica. i think she should take some ownership of that. but i don't think that will drive the headlines. you'll see republicans trying to turn up any scandal they can because they're so afraid of hillary because she's like teflon. >> if they grab onto this one, i can't wait to see the way hillary just kind of knocks it out of the park. let them keep this alive because it will make people be like, really? this is all you've got? >> what do you think about the timing monica agreed to do this interview for vanity fair? >> it favors the clintons because it will be over six months from now, a year from now. americans have voted on this scandal repeatedly. the overwhelming sentiment of americans is we don't care. we simply don't care. so if republicans want to go on a fool's errand and bring it up again, i think they'll be mistaken to do so. americans just don't care. >> but i think what has happened here --

>> emily first, emily first. >> i don't think republicans are going to bring it up again, because when rand paul brought it up, karl rove immediately told him to basically shut up. this is touchy for bill clinton. you're not allowed to bring it up in reference to him. it shouldn't be a bad mark for hillary except for the way she handled herself with monica during the scandal. i don't think republicans will want to touch it. >> this is not about republicans and the republican campaign in 2016. what this is about is the media. and i think by monica lewinsky penning this article, she did it herself, by penning this article, she has opened the door for the media to ask hillary clinton these questions. and let's face it, there's nothing the media likes better than a sex scandal. >> who cares? everybody is missing the point of the power of this entire article which is this is a story, whether you think she should have been over this a year after this happened or whether or not you're generous

to say, hey, i don't know her personal psychology. if it took 16 years, everybody grieves differently, everybody heals differently. it's taken her a long time to confront her past, and i found it quite moving when i read about carl clemente committing suicide and saying i wish i could have talked to him. if i could have talked to him about my personal issues and wanting to commit suicide, maybe this kid could have survived this. if it took her 16 years to write this article, i say, go, girl. team monica. >> i think that's the good in all this. i wrote a book and dedicated it to tyler clemente as well. there is a tweet i wanted to share, but it basically says people in their own times, it takes people a long time to grieve and maybe this is her moment and i hope it is. that was a sentiment at the top

of the show that finally, it's time, monica. take your own destiny into your hands right now. thanks, guys. michael, you all right? >> yep. >> we need bodyguard from each other to walk out of here. you know the old saying, i don't agree with what you say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. well, hardly anybody is defending donald sterling. up next a man who says he has every right to be a racist. i'm looking forward to talking about that, right after this break. i have low testosterone. there, i said it. how did i know? well, i didn't really.

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welcome back, everyone. it's easy to fight for free speech when you're protecting the underdog. it's a different battle when you're fighting for a billion area-alleged racist. but are donald sterling's rights being violated? joining me is the president of the national work rights institute and former director of the aclu national task force, and michael hiltzig is a columnist from the l.a. times. i'll start with louis. you wrote a piece entitled "defending donald sterling's right to be a racist." you said, quote, no matter how socially repellent holding

unpopular opinions is not illegal. everybody enjoys the right to be wrong, stupid or just plain vile. why do you think donald sterling is getting a raw deal? >> he's getting a raw deal for losing his job for saying something in private. we all have opinions that our bosses don't like, and if you can fire donald sterling because you don't like what he said, anyone can be fired for anything they say, and it happens every day. >> even if he has a fiduciary responsibility for the people he maligned? >> who does he have a financial responsibility to here? >> to the nba players, to the owners in the nba, to the fans. >> if the players don't want to play for him, they shouldn't have to. if the fans don't -- >> they have contracts. >> well, they should be able to not follow the contract, this is more important. if the fans don't want to come,

when he goes broke, serves him right. but you shouldn't get fired because your boss doesn't like your opinions. >> this is not a first amendment issue, first of all, because the first amendment pertains to the government restricting your speech. it doesn't say the nba shall not pass a bylaw that restricts what you can say. he said something, it got in the public's face, there was an economic impact to the nba. and underneath the guidelines, which i have read and i know you have, too, the other owners have the right to vote him out. bye. >> that's exactly the problem. >> problem? >> the question about that, actually, is whether they do have the authority to vote him out for what he said. the fact of the matter is that he does have a defense here, and his defense is that he did not commit a willful violation of the nba laws. but i think that's a lot different -- look, nobody is saying that donald sterling didn't have the right, as mark cuban said, the right to be a moron.

but the question is, what are the consequences of being in the public sphere, making these sort of statements and coming out in public as this sort of character? i think he's a partner in a commercial enterprise. his partners really do not want him in that commercial enterprise anymore. they have a procedure to eject him and they're going to try it, and he has a defense against it and he will try that. but i don't think we're really talking about his right to free speech. the man has $2 billion. he's got the right to say and a way to say it any time he wants. >> and doesn't the corporation and the nba brand have a right to their speech, too, which is to basically say, we stand for this and we won't stand for that? >> everyone has a right to react and free speech comes with consequences. louis, you wanted to respond? >> yes, the problem is the constitution doesn't apply to private corporations. if you come out against the war in iraq, if you come out in favor of gay marriage, if you come out in favor of racial

equality and your boss doesn't like it, you can be fired. it's not unconstitutional. >> he's the boss. everybody is talking as though donald sterling is the janitor or even a player. donald sterling is the boss. he has a completely different role from somebody who is subject to a boss' whims. he is the boss. he is the guy with the whim of iron if he wants it. it's a different example than brendan ike. he was the ceo. >> it's a perfect example. what brendan ike said was obnoxious and the board hated it, and brendan got fired because the board didn't like what he said. >> you're talking about brendan ike who came out against same-sex marriage. >> brendan ike was the ceo. you're a ceo of a corporation or a large organization, then your personal views, your personal activities are very much a part

of what you are hireto put forth. and that's exactly what happened. >> let's stick to donald sterling here. i'm glad you said that. so, louis, you think his first amendment right is being violated in this particular case? >> the first amendment wasn't violated because the constitution doesn't apply to corporations. but his right to free speech certainly was. >> michael? >> i don't think his right to free speech has been affected one bit. the man is a billionaire, nobody is keeping him from saying anything. >> this is an example of free speech. you're free to say whatever you want and the public is free to react and so are the free markets. and the free markets have spoken and they want him out. >> that's about as much sense as saying you can say what you want but the government can put you in jail if they don't like it. >> this is not the government. >> it's worse. >> hardly. it's the public and it's a group of owners that have decided to operate under guidelines that he agreed to. and he did something that had a direct economic impact to the nba, to the clippers, to that

entity and they have the right to kick him out and they should. >> hold that thought, everyone. >> they have the right to try. coming up, i'm going to get my panel's reaction to whether sterling has the right to be a racist. and i'm going to talk to michael jordan's biographer to comments he's made about the race. we have a lot to talk about. that's next. [ hypnotist ] you are feeling satisfied without standard leather. you are feeling exhilarated with front-wheel drive. you are feeling powerful with a 4-cylinder engine. [ male announcer ] open your eyes... to the 6-cylinder, 8-speed lexus gs. with more standard horsepower than any of its german competitors. this is a wake-up call. ♪

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we are talking tonight about freedom of speech and donald sterling's right to utter racial comments. but i also want to talk about

the nba's actions against him and the strategy they may use to force him to sell the clippers. joining me now is the author of "michael jordan the life," sports attorney from gordon rease and i'm back with my panel. david, we just heard from louis and michael, and we heard them debate whether donald sterling's rights were violated. what do you think? did adam silver, the nba commissioner, make the right decision here? >> he did make the right decision, and he's also authorized to urge the owners to terminate donald sterling's franchise. there are about 10 reasons under the constitution and bylaws where the owners can take a team away from another owner, and while michael's right, there are certain circumstances where it has to be willful, under -- i

think it's section 13d, if you fail or refuse to fulfill a contractual obligation that has an adverse impact on the league, the team can take -- the league can take the team away from you. and in this instance, i can think of two contracts. one is the agreement he entered into when he became an owner, and i would also imagine that donald sterling actually has an employment agreement with the clippers that he is an employee of the club, and in both of those agreements and others, he would agree to be bound by the constitution and bylaws and would agree not to engage in conduct that would undermine the public's confidence in the integrity of the game and the league. >> so basically it's a morality clause. >> essentially, yes. that's right. >> rowland, i want to ask you about this. you wrote a biography on michael jordan. michael put out a statement in the aftermath saying he was disgusted by sterling's comments. as an owner of the bobcats, he has a unique perspective on this, doesn't he? >> yes, he does.

he's the first player to own a team. >> in your book, you include michael jordan's thoughts on racism, comments he made back in 1992. how do you think race played a role in his professional life? >> well, i think it played a huge role. michael, of course, was a role model in terms of race. i think that's why the popularity of the nba grew, because of his perceived attitudes. and, you know, michael certainly doesn't need me to defend his history of race. he's had model race relations in many facets of his life and continues to do that. >> but he was also -- he's been criticized a lot for not taking stances on race. he didn't want to be controversial. this last time he did. many people said this time -- and this is just other people were criticizing him saying he sort of held his finger up to the wind to see which way the wind was blowing, and then he decided to make a statement. >> well, my book lays out that michael, of course, is in north

carolina. north carolina had more klan members than the other southern states combined. we don't realize that today when we look at north carolina, but political rights were taken violently from african-americans at the turn of the last century. so there was a climate all across. michael as a 27-year-old player was reluctant to get involved in politics because that was his cultural background, that was his family background. as he has matured, he has, at appropriate times, jumped in and gotten involved in political issues and he's spoken up. but he's also a businessman and he's aware of those issues. >> sally, as time goes on, do you believe everybody's initial repugnance to donald sterling's racism will fade and do you think that will be to his benefit, or do you think no way? >> no, i don't think it will fade because i think it serves two purposes in society. one, probably within the nba and the sports community in general

which has this interest in distancing itself from racial bias when it comes to these kinds of overt things, so it doesn't have to actually examine the deeper racial bias embedded in some of the structures of sports team ownership and operation that's really playing athletics in america, and i think that pertains also to society at large. we like to hold up the donald sterlings, the clive bundys and say, that's racism, i'm against that, so we don't have to determine the harder, more subtle but more dangerous implicit bias that is really throughout our society. >> you? did you want to respond? >> i'm just listening to sally intently thinking, my god, she's very smart. what the hell is she talking about? it's 10:51. i need a cocktail and i'm getting a dissertation on something about -- >> that's why we have her on. that's why she's a political

commentator and one of the hosts of "crossfire." >> i think he has a scarlet letter on him. just like we were talking about monica lewinsky earlier, this will not fade on him. what's interesting is people's appetite for litigation, because you know he's going to lawyer up and you know he's probably going to be a stickler, so this is going to drag on, and we'll see. >> michael, i think this is very interesting, that you wrote a piece for the l.a. times saying you also hope sterling fights the nba but for a very different reason. you want the nba to learn a lesson from this. how so? >> well, look, i think it's going to be very unhealthy if we allow the nba as a league to parade itself as though it's a force for progressivism and equality. over its history it really has not been. if you're looking for an example of how that's so, just look at donald sterling of the he's been an owner at the nba for 33 years.

he's the longest serving owner. he's the dean of the ownership and they have condoned his speech and his actions for decades and decades and decades. and the fact of the matter is he was allowed to sort of sail under the radar for years because the clippers didn't matter in that league. and now here we are, the clippers matter for only the third time in all the years that he's been there, but really the first time in maybe forever, and now it matters. and for the nba to say, well, we're really shocked and we don't agree with this, and we don't -- this is not us, the fact of the matter is donald sterling was them for many, many years. >> louis, what do you think the appropriate response should have been from the nba? just allow an unrepentant racist to keep owning the team? >> i don't think he's really the problem at all. the problem is what sally talked about. the problem is we had serious racial inequality in this country and muzzling donald sterling doesn't do anything to

address it. >> yes, it does. it does a lot. it creates a public conversation where a league that's very powerful can say to the entire world, this is what we stand for and this is what we don't. i'm kind of confused by what louis was saying. because the nba has not been policing its owners, i hope it's really hard for them to kick this guy out? i hope it's the opposite. i hope it's smooth sailing so the next time there's something going on, they have learned their lesson and they move swiftly and they know they have the power to do it. >> if it's not hard for them to kick him out, they will not learn their lesson. this has to be a tough battle so that they do learn their lesson. >> david -- >> why does it have to be an either/or proposition? why can't you deal with donald sterling in the context of a private company that finds his conduct to be repugnant and inconsistent with the foundation of the league and kick him out, and at the same time be able to address some of the more

insidious and perhaps more subtle issues of race in america? >> i think you're absolutely right about that, but the problem is they're going to address donald sterling and they're going to pretend they're addressing it because it's a matter of equality and a matter of -- >> the reason they're addressing it is donald sterling expressed racist views in a league that is 80% black of players. and you can't ask players to play and create profits for an owner and then turn around and have or harbor views of them that sound like a slave master. >> the fact of the matter is it's a commercial entity. >> it's a private business. >> stand by. roland, what do you make of the idea that the players have the right to refuse to play for sterling? should a player have to make those types of decisions? >> well, i certainly think they have the right to protest this.

you know, i've covered basketball for 30 years, and basketball is a community. it's a community that prizes, even craves racial harmony. this is so jarring on so many levels. it affects the nba as a business in all of its communities, and it is -- literally the league has no choice. believe it that the owners do not want to make this kind of difficult, harsh decision, but they have no other choice. >> okay. david, when we come back, i want to ask you this. i spoke to someone in los angeles and they said this is beyond the clippers, that donald sterling has the ability to take the entire league down. we'll be right back. we've never sold a house before. (agent) i'll walk you guys through every step. there are a lot of buyers for a house like yours. (husband) that's good to know. ♪ here's a good one seattle... what did geico say to the mariner?

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trwith secure wifie for your business. it also comes with public wifi for your customers. not so with internet from the phone company. i would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. but that would require wifi. switch to comcast business internet and get two wifi networks included. comcast business built for business. all right. so, david, listen, i spoke to someone in los angeles tonight and they said these guys play for different teams, but they're family.

you have big players coming out and saying, if the sterling family has anything to do with this team, they can take down the entire league. >> that's right. listen, the players joined with the commissioner. they were very complimentary of his act. but robert mason jr., remember, the executive committee of the union, said we expect you to take the next step quickly and that's to get sterling out. if sterling is owning this team starting next season, i bet we'll see players not show up to games. >> players, but not just from the clippers we're talking about. >> absolutely. leaguewide. leaguewide. >> a multi-billion-dollar business. that will have a huge effect. thank you, guys. i appreciate you all joining me tonight. remember, roland's book is "michael jordan the life." "michael jordan the life." thanks to my panel. that's it for me. i'm don lemon. "ac 360" starts right now. good evening. tonight, an exclusive interview >> an exclusive interview with a

man who knows donald sterling's history better than most. longtime clippers executive elgin baylor sued sterling five years ago, alleging racist behavior that went back decades. he speaks to me tonight in his first interview since sterling was banned from the nba. >> the head of the veterans affairs department breaks his silence. will he resign because some patients died while waiting for care at some va hospitals? we begin tonight with a question, does v have a vendetta and has she been using it try to extort money from donald sterling? there are new reports v stiviano, the woman who recorded the racist remarks that led to sterling being banned by the nba has plenty more recordings of sterling and using those to threaten donald sterling. meanwhile, we're learning more just how the nba plans to go about forcing sterling to sell the team. the source tells wolf blitzer it all hinges on a document sterling signed when he first