lying never bothered me anyway ♪ >> you just know it's going to spawn a whole slew of frozen-themed attacks. can't wait to find out what rhymes with. ♪ do you want to build a snowman ♪ >> that's all for us tonight. i'm bill weir. don lemon is here right now. >> this is "cnn special report." i'm don lemon. another tape alleged donald sterling saying, what, me, racist? ridiculous. i have expert attorneys debating the issue of race in america and the impact of the donald sterling saga and they will be answering your questions as well. plus, this infamous moment, the birth of reality tv. remember this, everyone? i certainly do. it's 20 years since o.j. simpson's riveting bronco chase down the san diego freeway.

95 million people tuned in to watch. you probably did, too. we're going to tell you why this may be the moment that kicked off a binge of unscripted reality tv that is still going strong. look, we're going to start with donald sterling. i'm not an audio expert but a new recording that you're about to be reported to be donald sterling talking to a friend denying he's a racist certainly could be the same voice on the first recording with v. stiviano, the one that surfaced a couple of weeks ago with the racist statements. so let's just assume that it is him. then why is he talking again to another, quote, confidant about the same subject that got him in this mess in the first place? why, as an attorney, he should know better, shouldn't he? unless it's a pr stunt. a pr stunt intended to sway public opinion about him being racist. when you hear the recordings in just a moment, pay close attention to how carefully he goes over his background and

defends himself. just listen to his own words and decide for yourself. how can you be in this business and be a racist? that's a good question, donald sterling, a question that only you can answer. nick valencia has that now. >> you think i'm a racist? you think i have anything in the world but love for everybody? you don't think that. you know i'm not a racist. >> reporter: in a new recording purportedly of donald sterling talking on the phone with a friend, the los angeles clippers' owner defends himself. >> do you think i tell the coach to get white players or get the best player he can get. >> reporter: this was released on thursday by radar online. if it's the real deal, the embattled owner is not going down without a fight. >> you can't force someone to sell property in america.

i'm a lawyer. that's my opinion. >> reporter: today in an interview with cnn, shelly sterling's lawyer says she's the real boss. >> they have been estranged and have not lived together in more than a year. while they share business properties, he's out of the team, has nothing to do with it, and she's the owner in charge. >> reporter: shelly sterling maintains her husband's lifetime ban does not apply to her. a co-owner since 1981 says, quote, the team is the most important thing to my family and believes she's entitled to the clippers. if shelly gets full ownership of the team, it could give her husband a big break. if a controversial owner's latest purported recording is what he plans to do, donald sterling is planning to fight. nick valencia, cnn.

>> nick, thanks very much. i want to bring in my guest, cedric maxwell who played for the clippers and is a sports radio host. and judge glenda hatchett and jeffrey toobin and in the hot seat tonight is sunny hostin, cnn legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. my first question goes to sunny hostin. the voice on that tape is allegedly donald sterling and then the man says, what about what i heard on the tape. >> i grew up in east l.a. east l.a., you died to get out of there. i got out of east l.a. i was the president of the high school there. and i'm a jew. 50% of the people were black and 40% were hispanic.

you remember boyle heights? >> yeah, i've been to bchl oyle heights. >> so i mean, people must have a good feeling about me. >> is he a very savvy businessman. they say he's one of the best in the business. he's a lawyer. he makes that very, very clear. our own anderson cooper went to meet with him and wouldn't go on camera. so the idea that he's somehow being recorded and doesn't know it isn't true. i think this is a pr stunt. he's trying to change the narrative from racist to a victim who was at the hand of v. stiviano and who is not a racist. i think this was a planned thing. maybe not by olivia pope but by donald sterling. >> what do you think about these comments? >> well, it's an interesting path. i thought that we'd get a whole different direction here. this is surprising. i thought he was going to remain silent. in the end, the whole focus is on who the fellow owners want to

have as a partner. it's a big business but it's a small business at the same time. you've got 30 other men, women in this partnership. if they don't want him in, you always talk about what courts will do in america about taking property. one thing the court won't do is force you to associate people you don't want to associate with. >> but still legally, sunny has been saying that this man is going to fight tooth and nail to keep this team. >> no doubt about it. >> we're getting ready for a battle, no question about that. i also think, as i've been saying all along, the real player here, the boss is shelly sterling. >> the estranged wife. >> the estranged wife, allegedly. we now know she owns 50% of the team. >> jeffrey, shelly sterling through her attorney is now saying that she will fight to keep the clippers, as we've been saying, and one l.a. columnist referred to her past involvement in discrimination cases and called her cruela de sterling.

is she complicit with her husband? >> i don't know if she's complicit but i think they will try to get rid of her as well as donald sterling. i think donald sterling is gone. he can leak all of the phone calls he wants. he's too toxic. if he is involved with this team, the players will not play and the nba cannot have that. sterling is gone. it's a more interesting and closer question whether the league can get rid of his wife or estranged wife, whatever she is at this point. i do think that, given the way the constitution of the nba is written, they probably can get rid of her, too. but if that goes into court, that could be a tougher case for the nba to make, to get rid of her 50%. but don, he's gone. he's history. >> it seems that there's a con s census here that the tape was leaked. >> it was definitely leaked. >> can i get a show of hands here? who thinks it was leaked? the people in the studio are

always raising their hands. is it because -- does it sound to you -- and i don't know this -- it just sounds like it. it sounds like -- you said the guy was reading off of a script. does it sound like he goes, and why would you say those things? >> this is a very savvy guy. >> go ahead, judge hatchett. >> i absolutely think it was scripted. why now do we have this tape leaked? you have a mysterious person on the other end. we don't know who that person is. it was contrived and so transparent and so -- i mean, scripted. it's a poor script writer on top of it. >> but here's the weird thing, though. it doesn't seem to help him, cedric. it doesn't seem to help him case at all, even if he put it out there as a pr ploy. >> here's the thing. i'm not calling him a racist anymore. i just call him confused. over and over again the same thing happens. he hits himself in the head and

backs away again and tells people different things. i don't care what happens in this whole situation. donald sterling cannot be in the nba. but as the panelists said, he will not go down without a fight. it's going to be -- he's not going down. the nba is not going to get rid of donald sterling that easy. >> yeah. >> i think so. i think so. if i can just say quickly, i think given the constitution, i think sterling's out. i agree with jeffrey, the matter with shelly is a little bit more complicated but at the end of the day, regardless of what happens with the vote of the owners, the leverage really is with the players in this league. the fans, the sponsors, and ultimately with the players and they will both be gone. it's what i predict. >> ken, do you agree with that? >> oh, i agree. and again, i can't express more strongly. there's a long history of sports

law cases where the league, the fellow owners have the right to select and work with people they want to work with. so there's a lot that hasn't really been looked at in terms of the legal strength on that side. i fully agree. part of the constitution will give strength to this whole concept of the business can't operate without players and the players have spoken and said they don't want to be a part of this organization with this man in charge and we don't know yet about shelly but i'm assuming that as information leaks about her further, there will be a stronger stance against her as well. >> cedric, if he has a new strategy, then, is it working, this pr strategy to try to -- in my estimation, it doesn't appear putting this tape out but it may be part of a strategy to try to come and stem the tide of the v. stiviano tape. >> one thing you guys had on cnn is a poll and registered with america and donald sterling, over 50% said he should not be

forced to sell his team. so part of it, he's trying to work the whole system. it didn't just the nba but he's trying to work the system and obviously i'm not a lawyer and there's a lot of lawyers. i'm not sure if you get rid of donald sterling until he's dead and gone. >> the constitution says he has to abide by the three-fourths decision and i would suggest that there would be preliminary motions filed that would point to that and say that he is barred from bringing legal action on this. >> okay. >> i think he's gone. >> all right. i have to get to a break. you're right, cedric there, they are not only lawyers but they play lawyers on television. >> yes, they do. >> and i disagree with judge hatchett, even though she's a friend. >> stand by. coming up, an nfl super bowl winner known for his strong words shares his opinion on

donald sterling. you might be surprised what he has to say. that's next. and later, 20 years after the o.j. simpson white bronco chase, some call it the birth of reality tv. more on that coming up.

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it's a story of power, money, and race and its reach goes beyond basketball. everyone has a strong opinion when it comes to donald sterling. i want you guys to listen to this. "time" magazine asks richard sherman if an nfl owner made

comments similar to what sterling made, would the commissioner ban them for life? and he said, no, i don't think so. because we have an nfl team called the redskins. i don't think the nfl really is as concerned as they show. the nfl is more of a bottom line league. if i it doesn't affect their bottom line, they are not as concerned. do you think he's right? >> no, i don't. you're talking about the redskins and then what he said about black people. so it's completely two different things. i think if the commissioner of the nfl faced this, he would be on the same line. he's already talking about banning the "n" word when guys are tackling each other, he would be upfront if an owner did the same thing. >> i'm going to go around the horn and see if anyone disagrees. >> i think he's right.

i think it's unconscienable that the washington football team is called what it is called. it's a bigoted term. it's not something that is accepted to use in polite or impolite company and dan schneider hat no, sir been cracked down and is as awful of an owner as donald sterling is a disgrace. >> i understand what you're saying. but let's just say the same situation and it was an nfl owner, you don't think that roger goodell would move to get rid of them? >> it's very hard to -- if you said precisely the same thing in precisely the same way, probably. the nfl is a very conservative league in every sense of the word. >> let's move on. can adam silver's ruling influence other sports leagues like the nfl? >> yes. >> i think so. the public reaction, the way that there was great support for

the move and shocked that they moved so aggressively against sterling. i think it's a watershed movement in seeing how sports can have a greater influence and how acceptable it is. there's not going to be the negative reaction there may anticipate there to be. there's going to be a ground swell of support if that action is ever taken, which i think it should be. >> and i think it has widespread implications. >> what about league precedence? everyone is going to be looking at this. >> i think that's a little bit different. we have the nba constitution that was always under seal and now we know a little bit more about it. so i don't think so in that respect but i think it definitely opens up discussion about race, not only in sports but all over the country again and again and again. we're seeing that there are people that don't perceive themselves as being bias but

that is the discussion that we're going to see over and over and over again now. >> mark cuban made a great, great statement, the mavericks' owner, when he said, this is a slippery slope and for everybody in everything you do right now. i think it's going to take on the gender in all sports. baseball, basketball, i'm not sure that anyone is immune to what could come out eventually in a tape. >> that's right. >> but you know what, but that's good. that's good. that's not bad. mark cuban made it sound like big brother is watching you. >> right. >> if we live in a society where it is so socially unacceptable to say don't bring black people to my games, that's a society i want to live in. >> you want to live in a polite society where people like judge hatchett raise their hand. >> i pointed my finger and he remembered i shouldn't point my finger. i think it changes the conversation, hopefully, in this

country and i hope that it will change the level of sensitivity. now, i had issues with mark's comments about the slippery slope. i didn't see that necessarily as being positive so much as concern about, well, we're going to have to do some cya here. that's not what this is about here. it's about openness and transparency and honest discussions. >> and what is acceptable and what is not acceptable. >> here's what i noticed about this whole process. the people that need to hear this conversation the most are the people who are most adverse to hearing it. >> sure. >> like donald sterling, like people on social media who call you racist just for talking about this. >> right. it's interesting that i become the racist and the race baiter for talking about race. it's pretty remarkable. >> how do you do -- if people don't want to talk about it, people don't want to change. >> and you have to talk about it but i do think people don't see there is racism.

i really believe that donald sterling does not believe is he a racist. i've never met anyone who is racist who agrees that he is a racist. >> i have. >> but i have -- here's the thing. throughout this whole process in every story that i do on race, i check myself. i re-examine myself and i say, maybe i do have some biases. i don't think everyone does that. i think people immediately jump to the conclusion and say, i'm not racist. i'm not biased. i figure maybe i'm not because every time someone says something to me on twitter and i read it and i wonder, i check myself. >> self-examination. >> maybe i need to work on -- >> but don, don't you think that everybody is biased, though? >> of course everybody is biased. >> and the more we look at it and the way the information was gathered, we're not letting off sterling at all but also people also talking about the way this information was gathered. if i brought a tape to you and i had a tape recorder while you and i were talking and then i

put that conversation out there, how upset would you be? >> well, i don't think -- >> i'm not troubled by that. >> i would never say that. >> serve talking about that piece, that it was ser relationship tissue shously recorded. who cares. he hasn't disavowed or said that those are not his views. >> i had a conversation that got very heated on television today and someone called me and said that guy is racist or whatever and i said, no, he's not, don't say that. so i would never have a conversation like that. >> yeah. >> so i would not ever be in my life 100% never be worried about a conversation. >> and we have to be careful how we use the word racism and racist that we not just do this broad brush of people and we've got to be really more responsible. >> amen. >> during those conversations. >> when we come back, my expert panel weighs in. they will answer them for you.

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that. sunny, a lot of questions about shelly sterling's future roles. if the wife gets to run the clippers, it would be the same as donald sterling running the team. he still gets a profit from it. >> that's true. >> and will that come in? >> i think so. that will be brought up. what is interesting to me while she's 50% owner, she's indicated that she wants to be a passive owner, that she's not going to have any operating duties, she's not going to deal with day-to-day management. absolutely true, even if she owns only 50%, california community property, donald sterling still owns 50%. >> judge, isn't it a case that a spouse should not be held accountable for the comments or misdeeds of their partner? >> and i don't disagree with that, don. this is an elite club and they can decide who they want in the club. if they decide that all of them have to go, they can bite, scream, holler, fight in court but ultimately i think that she's going to be gone.

>> okay. we have this tweet and it says that everybody has a right to be racist. however, they must be prepared to face the consequences of that racism. what do you know about how the nba owners are going to apply those consequences. >> in terms of -- >> what do you know how they are going to apply those consequences? >> by saying that this is not someone that we want to be associated with. this whole idea of free speech, it's against a governmental entity on college campuses, that's okay. in terms of a business partnership and the consequence of racist language can be, we don't want to be your partner anymore. >> how soon will it happen? will it be unanimous? do you know anything about that? >> i think donald sterling was appropriate in saying that he's going to give due process and that sort of thing. what you don't want to do is have your actions fall apart. in the end, my view is, of course sterling wants to hold on

to the franchise but ultimately, too, all of this has to do about money as well to make sure he gets the full value if it does go south. >> ken, i have a quick question. is the vote going to be transparent? will we know who voted for what? >> nope. >> you know, i don't think we know that yet. >> we don't know that because i bet you anything it's going to be unanimous so you will know how everyone voted. adam silver has bet his commissionership of keeping the owners together on this issue. there's no owner who has come out publicly for sterling. i think at least as far as don sterling is concerned, it will be unanimous. >> ken, why are you shaking your head? are you disagreeing? >> no. i'm agreeing. there's a great supreme court case with ali. no judge said i'm a racist and i'm going to vote against ali. >> i would suggest to you, if

it's not unanimous, we'll never know who the owners were that -- >> there's no way. no way. >> journalists will know in ten minutes. >> i'm just saying the nba will -- >> they won't put it out. >> we'll know. >> so everybody will vote then. >> go ahead, cedric. what were you saying? >> i totally agree. i think it's going to be transparent. if anybody lines up with donald sterling as an owner, that's political suicide. you can't do that. and if the vote is one person goes the other way, it will be a matter of seconds before somebody else is going to know it and it's all over the world about who made the vote. >> sunny and i were talking about and someone said, isn't there a mob mentality surrounding this case? >> i think it's interesting because it's very easy to get inside of the outrage bubble and people are outraged and no one wants to be on the other side but if you look at our poll,

it's very clear that 50% without their views. i don't think that we're necessarily hearing that people feel that way. >> thanks, everyone. jeff, sunny, judge glenda, stay with me. coming up, it was 20 years ago that o.j. simpson was charged with killing his ex-wife and her friend. now an article in "vanity fair," it created a phenomena of reality tv. we're going to talk about it next. [ male announcer ] hey, look at you!

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the children and then i will surrender, so that is also a point for speculation. >> it's hard to say what in the world is on his mind at this point. >> that's right. >> but he's getting very close to -- we're getting very close. he's going to be making that turn very soon. >> boy does that bring back memories like it was yesterday. this was the original spectacle of the birth of reality tv. 20 years ago, june 1994, white ford bronco, tv news helicopters, simpson himself a fugitive from the law sits in the back with a gun to his head. the slow speed chase ends at his house on rockingham. o.j. simpson was arrested on charges of murdering his ex-wife

nicole and ronald goldman. o.j.'s subsequent trial captivated the nation and according to "vanity fair," killed popular culture and replaced it with reality tv. let's talk about it now with business editor at tv guide, judge larry seidlin and judge glenda hatchett and sunny hostin and jeffrey toobin. is there anything you have not written about, jeffrey? >> just boring stuff. >> let's go now to the "vanity fair." it began with o.j. and the bronco chase. so here's what it says. it had a narrative sense that with second to none opening, bam, a climax, a cut to the chase, an suv burning rubber on the santa ana freeway, it was a

bona fide national obsession 95 million americans had tuned in to some portion of the chase. nobody knew at the time out of that horrifying crime something new was born or maybe spawned is a better word. reality tv. >> wow. >> take us back to that moment. was it the birth of reality tv, miss hostin? >> i think so. no question about it. who can't remember where they were when they saw the bronco. i was eating dinner out in the east village. who can't remember where they were when the verdict came back. i was in a law office in a conference room. >> i was remember watching and working in a newsroom and we were doing the noon show, right? and we had left and usually the anchor in the afternoon would come and we'd have a cocktail or two and go home and go about our business. we kept waiting for the anchor and she never showed up. and they said where is he? we don't know. nobody knows. went back to the station and all of a sudden the bronco shows up

on television and there's the chase and we carried it live. >> everyone became a star. >> jeffrey, you literally wrote the book about the o.j. celebrity. the trial happened before -- the trials that happened before. every new big trial is called the trial of the century. >> but the world was so different then. there was no internet. there was no e-mail. there were two cable stations that showed the o.j. case. there was cnn and there was court tv which doesn't exist in that form anymore. what about fox news? didn't exist. what about msnbc, didn't exist. the media world was much smaller. so when you had one thing capture people's imaginations, there were no other choices out there. >> jeffrey, we killed all of our programming -- i worked for a fox station, right, fox o & o station right here in new york. we killed all of our dayside

programming. we cared it all day. we started a show called "o.j. today". >> of course. >> and it was just like this. we covered the trial, the premotion, what people were talking about, the news in l.a. covering it. >> it was like a soap opera. it had celebrity. it had sports. it had lawyers. it had love, it had lust, it had murder. >> right. >> it was better than anything that was scripted on television. >> and judge you had a show coming out of this, one thing every reality tv show has, it has to have a good cast. the "vanity fair" article rights that you could not cast a better trial than this had. a football star, his beautiful wife, flamboyant defense attorney, kato kaelin, on and on and on. >> i absolutely agree. this is so -- you could not have come up with this and i do

agree, sunny, i know exactly where i was when that chase -- i was at the reception and everybody stopped and watched this wondering whether he was going to kill himself. there was a gun to his head. and so we all got caught up in it. just gavel to gavel coverage in the way that the public has never seen before so not only does jeffrey have this great book but then you have a lot of careers that came out of this. think about people who were doing commentary for this trial and then went on to have television shows. it was really an interesting time for us. >> here at cnn, play-by-play was greta. >> star jones became famous out of this. i remember working with katie couric's late husband jay

monahan. >> this trial really had -- the coverage of the trial had a far greater impact on the media culture certainly in television news than entertainment. i mean, in the mid-1990s, broadcast network news was still dominant. cnn was still growing and there was a real debate inside news divisions about how much they should cover this story because of its tawdry nature. nbc news with tom brokaw started covering o.j. more than anyone else and the show shot to number one and the other two shows had to follow it. there were about ten hours of news magazine shows. >> let me tell you, i know this, because i know it, "in depth" on nightly news was started as a result of the o.j. simpson.

they would do it as a lead and a little later, we'll go in depth and blah, blah, blah. that was so they could go back and get more. >> it was the culture. part of network news which was still pretty buttoned up at that time. >> can he read this, steve, because i want you to weigh in on this. they were not too happy about the soap operas being canceled. we cancel you had all of our dayside programming. when it began, all of the networks were getting these hate mailers because people's soap operas were being interrupted for the simpson trial but then what happened was the people who liked soap operas got addicted to the simpson trial and they got really upset when the simpson trial was over and people would come up to me on the street and say, god, i loved your show. that was from marcia clark. >> there was a joke that o. jarks was not convicted of

killing his wife but he was guilty of killing the daytime television market. soap operas never recovered. it broke the habit for a lot of viewers for a long time. there were ten then and now there are four. >> you know what strikes me about the verdict, the way it sort of broke down on racial lines. it's still shocking to me that when i was actually at a law firm -- >> i want to talk about the verdict. because that's a moment for everyone. >> yeah. it's remarkable. >> i want to talk about the trial. okay? and jeffrey, every reality show has a moment that goes viral in addition to the bronco chase. it would have to be the glove. watch this. >> he seems to be having a problem putting the glove on his

hand. >> objection. >> sustained. >> and jeffrey, what's the statement that goes with that? if it what -- >> if it doesn't fit, you must acquit. >> absolutely. did that wipe out basically the testimony before? >> i don't know. when you look back, the prosecution lost this case in jury selection. so it was all done by that point. >> yeah. >> but the -- it was such a great courtroom moment because you could see chris darden, who was the prosecutor thinking about should i ask him to put on the glove and you have the experienced trial lawyers saying to themselves, don't do it, don't do it and then it happened. >> i thought it fit pretty well. i've got to tell you, i looked a the it and i thought, it kind of fits. >> i was in the control room and everyone was like ooh, here we go. >> well, he has on these gloves underneath it and you have to

wonder whether that kept it from coming up. >> yeah. it fit. >> not according to johnnie cochran. >> you're right. >> everyone, stay right there. when we come right back, the reading of the verdict. the o. jarks trij. trial. that that was the ultimate of reality tv. was it? we're going to talk about that when we come back. game filmgreat for g and drawing up plays. it's got onenote, so i can stay on top of my to-do list, which has been absolutely absurd since the big game. with skype, it's just really easy to stay in touch with the kids i work with. alright, russell you are good to go! alright, fellas. alright, russ. back to work! without standard leather. you are feeling exhilarated with front-wheel drive. you are feeling powerful with a 4-cylinder engine.

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okay, everybody, i want you to watch this. o.j. simpson's murder trial made for a blockbuster television viewing in the moment the verdict was read, tens of millions were tuned in. here it is. >> in the matter of the people of the state of california versus o.j. simpson, we the jury in the above entitled action find the defendant not guilty of the crime of murder in violation of penal code section 187, a, a felony upon nicole brown simpson. >> we the jury in the above-entitled action. any time there's a trial in l.a. you remember that and it brings you back to that trial. i think everyone can remember where they were when that verdict came down. an estimated 150 million people

watched it live. unfathomable. jeff, you were in the courtroom. >> i was. >> there you are sitting with the glasses right there, a blue suit and right behind the family, next to the lady in white. there's jeffrey toobin. what about the impact here? >> well, you have to remember the setting, the jury came back in one day. >> yes. >> after all that testimony, months and months of testimony, the jury didn't even deliberate for a single day and continuing. the jury didn't even clib rate for a single day. and continuing my strength of great predictions which has continued to this day. i went on all sorts of tv saying, that means they obviously found him guilty. so i was as shocked as anybody. and you know, to this day, let me put my cards on the table, i think he is completely guilty.

but the stunning nature of the verdict was even made exacerbated by the fact that jury was out for such a short time. . >> yeah. steve, i want to ask you. you had such profound things to say about how this changed television news. what about the verdict and the way and coverage of television trials. what about the impact after that? after the reading of this verdict? >> the verdict became sort of a defining moment for the country to start a whole national conversation about race. a lot of the news footage that you saw that day, you saw people sitting in bars, sitting in restaurants. if they were in minority neighborhoods, they were cheering. there was outrage if you saw people watching it in a white country club. i mean, it was just a mira of all these things that, simmering in the country. and it ignited that discussion. >> go ahead, judge. >> sorry. >> what a trial does, it

captures the geographic area of the country and to the also captures the moods of people. their state of mind. how they feel about race and religion. that's whether a trial does. >> and this has done that. this verdict definitely did that, judge. >> yes. but what we don't talk about the jury is the d.a. in l.a. was up for election. and he didn't try the case where the killing took place. he went into a different area. to make sure he would get re-elected. and no one talks about that. he wanted to get re-elected. and that's why the trial should have been in brentwood. that's where the jury pool should have been. that's never mentioned. >> the coverage of the trial did create this infrastructure where all of a sudden you have these legal expert, as you mentioned earlier, who were well known to the television public. people were used to -- were

getting used to the idea of watching cameras in the courtroom. it wasn't too spectacular but it beats -- >> steve, there is a question to judge -- >> excuse me? >> you just sold my question to judge simon. with the cameras in the courtroom. judge, i was going to ask you about cameras in the courtroom. there really impact heed that, as steve was saying. >> i like having these cameras in the courtroom. because you now get to see what's happening behind the curtain. >> yes. because behind the curtain, we saw you crying in the courtroom because of those cameras during the anna nicole smith trial. >> yes. and what it is, is when you put on a black robe, you don't remove your emotion. i was like a short order cook in a new york restaurant. i was trying to decide where dannie lynn, who was going to

take care of her the rest of her life. i also add potential manslaughter going on. then the key issue at that moment is also to decide where to bury anna nicole. so many things were going on. it was emotionally exhausting. and i think at the end of the trial, when i announced my verdict, i guess all my emotion just spilled right out of there. >> we saw it. we all saw it because of those cameras. quickly jeffrey. >> and it was weird. >> expand on that. it was weird? >> it was weird watching the judge cry, i'm telling you. i just thought it was weird. but he is a human being. but anyway, the point i want to make is the momentum for cameras in the courtroom, which had been build bing before o.j., stoppedn a dime. judges don't want to be embarrassed like lance eito was.

>> it is like we got to sort of pull the curtain back but people, i think, were uncomfortable with the exposure. >> the judges -- the judges were uncomfortable. >> there a big televised -- what was her name that got off. >> casey anthony. but what is interesting for me about the o.j. simpson case, is i'm interviewing kim goldman tomorrow, and when i spoke to her this week, it was as if it just happened. it is almost as if if just happened, and it's been 20 years. >> it brings you back. you hear the sound bites. you next, we will read some of the answers to some of your tweets.

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trwith secure wifie for your business. it also comes with public wifi for your customers. not so with internet from the phone company. i would email the phone company to inquire as to why they have shortchanged these customers. but that would require wifi. switch to comcast business internet and get two wifi networks included. comcast business built for business. will look at some of your tweets. steve, i just got this one in,

from julian. remember, without the o.j. trial, you would not have the kardashians today. >> people forget that. >> i have mixed feelings about that. >> go on. >> look, reality television would have happened anyway. there were a lot of things going on in the tv business at the time. you had cable, a desire for -- you needed a desire and you add demand for low cause programming. and you had a new celebrity culture that made it easy to turn people into stars. and so, there are a lot of factors here. i don't think it was just this, sort of what the -- >> but it is more in reality tv. the american public, they love the justice system. and now they are finally seeing, are we getting justice? is there a fair balance of justice? or is it what the textbooks say and reality, it's not occurring. we've seen a lot of high profile

trials where the defendant was either found guilty or not guilty based on race or some other bias or prejudice. >> right. >> thank you sunny hostin, appreciate it. sunny hostin in the hot seat. jeffrey toobin, saw him in the hot seat. i'm don lemon, thanks for watching. ac 360 starts right now. good evening, a powerful storm system with 40 million in the path from minnesota to texas. there is at least one confirmed tornado on the ground this evening. and at last check it was barrelling towards a major metropolitan area. meteorologist chad myers joins