finally, 13-year-old twins greenkey were competing against each other in a race in a state track meet and chloe felt something pop in her leg, fell to the ground. no way she could finish the race. her sister rushed to her side with no fanfare, just picked up her twin, puts her on her back and sets off for the finish line. just before the finish, clair and chloe, gives her a chance to cross first. nothing doing. the sisters cross together finishing last leaving their coach in tears proving that nice girls apparently do finish last and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. i feel better. how about you? you're welcome. that's all for us tonight. "cnn's special report" with don lemon is coming up. >> i'm don lemon. we have a live exclusive interview in just moments that you don't want to miss. first, i want to tell you donald sterling is not a racist. well, at least according to him he's not. but a more exclusive interview anderson cooper, he admits he

did make a mistake but says nothing about selling the los angeles clippers and tonight we have an exclusive interview with a man who says he is the one, he recorded one of the phone calls with donald sterling and then released them to the media. we're going to press him on that and what those tapes reveal. plus, donald sterling says he's not a racist though his own words tell a very different story. how do any of us really know if we are racist? plus, bieber in trouble with the law again. is celebrity behavior get worse or are we just living in a world where cameras are everywhere? before we get to all of that, we want to begin with that breaking news. an aspiring rapper by the name of mazz ratty man is a friend of donald sterling and he recorded a phone conversation they had and released them to web sites. he joins me now with the exclusive interview. thank you for joining us on cnn. you doing okay? >> yeah, i'm doing good. >> how long you have known donald sterling? how did you meet him?

>> straight off the bat. i knew donald about five, six years. how i know him? that's a good question. you know, donald likes to have fun. donald likes a lot -- donald likes a lot of women. it's obvious. the world knows donald, i mean it's no surprise. >> so how did you meet him. >> how i met him? i met him through a few -- a friend of mine introduced me to him. and i actually ran a service in las vegas. >> okay. >> in your previous life, you were involved in an escort service. is that how you know donald sterling? >> correct. that's how i know him. >> so you introduced him to ladies from time to time. >> correct. >> okay. >> and -- go on. >> and after a while, he didn't show no sign of racist to me. he seemed, you know, straight forward. he didn't have any -- he never

showed no sign of racism to me. when i heard the tape, it threw me off. >> did he like a certain kind of girl? did the race of a girl matter or anything like that? >> he liked, you know, he liked light skinned. i'm not going to light. he always prefer light skin. >> all right. okay. listen, we have not spoken to donald sterling about this. these are your claims. what did you think when the recordings first came out? did you reach out to him? >> yes, i was really upset. i had sent him a text kind of going off. and then i called him. and that piece of the tape is not out. but he started going, just going crazy. just started going off. so i said ien into guy just took it overboard. so i just, i mean i hit record. that's -- it was just something that i wanted to capture and really let people hear the real -- the other side of donald sterling.

>> so you didn't think he showed no signs of racism until you heard the recordings that were released on tmz? >> correct. >> so you were upset and you text him. then who called? did you call him or did he call you? >> he said call me. he's not a texter. he said call me. and i called him. he just started going off. you know i'm not a racist. and just going off. i hit the record button. so that went down. >> okay. you said that you recorded your conversations with donald sterling. there had been a few different donald sterling tapes to emerge. and so to be clear, which of those tapes of you and donald sterling, which one are you talking about? >> all the conversations, all -- every one besides the v tape. besides that, that girl are me. it's me and him. it's me and this conversation. >> the one released to radaron line. and wasn't there one released in

the daily mail and then on radar on line? >> yeah. it's a two hour conversation. >> right. >> i mean those are just minutes. those are clips. >> did you get paid for those tapes? >> honestly, no. there was no money involved. i mean anybody who knows me, i got money. i'm already successful. i'm not -- it wasn't really in it for the money. you can reach out to sources. i didn't get any money for the tapes. >> so we have an confident from an attorney that says you own the tapes, right? and you're telling the truth that because we can find out you did not get paid for these tapes? >> i didn't get paid for the tapes, no. >> okay. so then it was -- you said about two hours of tapes? >> yep. >> okay. so i want you to listen to what donald sterling says on the tapes about losing his team and then we'll talk to you.

>> they think that it's excessive for what happened. for what? even if he said he hates jews or he hates koreans. can you charge him that? isn't that excessive? >> yeah. >> can you take away his living? can you take away his living? i ask you. for what? for trying to get a girl hot and trying to make it with her? >> so how did that come about? what were you talking about there? >> at that point we were talking about -- he was explaining to me that, you know, i was just trying to have sex with her. and i didn't mean -- you know, she baited him in. my understanding is that she, if you listen to the tape, he talks about also she didn't like blacks, mexicans and so she was -- she went on years telling him that and she would never date a mexican or a black guy. so in that time, donald felt

comfortable speaking, you know, his real side of himself and expressing it to her. >> okay. he says on the audio that he believed that she was racist and that she wished she was white. and that she tried to hard to make her skin white and attempted to bleach it. so that's what you're talking about, right? he's claiming she's a racist. >> yeah. and i say that's true. everything he said is true about that. >> okay. >> yeah. >> all right. let's listen to -- there is more of what he said on the tapes. let's listen. >> god made me black. i didn't want to be black. i got 15 brothers and sisters. they're all mexican and i'm the only one that's black. she said do you know what it is to wake up every morning and wish you were white? and she tried so hard to make her skin white. and she does it every night, you know?

>> to make it white? >> yeah. her feet, her hands. what do you think about my skin color? i really didn't think about it. do you like black skin? >> so were you pressing him on why would you say all of these things when you're dating a woman of color or is that what happened in this instance? >> yeah. i'm like wondering why are you, you know, you always liked a woman of color. so, you know, what's going on? i'm hearing this tape with him and her on the phone. that threw me off. and it's like, you know, i'm just -- that threw me off. i had to call him. you always dated -- i have known him to always wouldn't a woman of color. and then to say what he said just -- it just threw me off big time. so now i do believe he is, you know, he is a racist. people don't speak that type of language and really don't mean -- you know, you don't

speak that type of language and not be racist. >> so when you say he liked light skin, you meant light skin women of color noshgts white women. >> yeah, light skin women of color, not white women. >> okay. all right. i got you. i want to read this response. this is from the law firm that is representing v. in response to the tapes claiming she is a racist who does not like black people, the representative said it's nonsense. she is extremely proud of her heritage and background and despite all that, she still cares very deeply for donald. >> i think that's a lie. >> why's that? >> i just think it's a lie. i believe, you know, donald expressed to me how -- what she said. you know, the whole tape is not out. i've got -- i mean listening to what he said, i believe what he said. i think she baited him in. i don't think that -- i mean in

california, there's always hispanic and black, there is always a rival thing going on between those two cultures anyway. so, you know, i think there's a lot -- i think she did tell him that -- that's just my opinion. i think she told him she didn't like blacks or she wouldn't date blacks and that's what made him feel comfortable to sat things he said. >> that's interesting. you would think that maybe she would because he said all along, i don't want with you black people. i was jealous, that's why i said that. i have to pressure you here. you taped yourself having conversations with someone you called a friend and i guess sort of a business acquaintance from the past. someone who is going through a crisis of his own making and then you made them public. do you have any qualms about that? >> no, doini don't feel any gui. when he apologized, i didn't take his apology serious. you know, he said he was just trying to have sex with her and that case. you don't -- you went a little bit too far to, you know, to

take that much. i didn't have to say that much to just get the girl to lay down. i mean, you know, we call those type of females stocks. it doesn't take that much to have, you know, sex with. >> all right. so listen, did he know that you were recording him? >> no, he didn't. >> he didn't know. so you don't feel like you set him up? >> no, i don't feel like i set him up. i really don't. wli first called him, it wasn't recorded. and then he just -- when started dwelling and drilling me, i hit the record button. i don't know. i hit the recording button. i didn't care at the time. i mean, you know, this guy -- he said some stuff that i got offended to and then talking about magic johnson. i look up to magic johnson. so, you know, clearly, you know, it just really ticked me off. so that's what made me hit the record button. >> the magic johnson part and -- >> magic johnson, really.

that was like when he was just -- the way he talked about magic johnson. i mean i have it on audio. i haven't put it out. i'm not going to put everything out. but he's just trashing him. so i mean come on. >> so a friend wouldn't do that but at this point i guess you don't feel like you're a friend? >> no, we're not friends at all. not anymore. >> have you spoken to him since? >> no. i haven't spoken to him. i'm going to actually give him a call and see what he says about everything. >> what do you want to get out of this, maseratimet? >> when you listen to what he said, the guy just needs to -- he needs to sit in the background and he's telling, you know, he needs to sit in the background and leave the nba and move on and relax on the beach and just enjoy life. i mean i don't think he needs to be involved in the nba. i think he needs to get rid the

clippers. he and his wife. >> you said you didn't get any money from any of these web sites, correct? >> yeah. >> you asked us for money if we paid, we did not pay you. >> i didn't ask you for money. they were saying about flying me to new york or something and i'm like that's not on my expense. they need to put up some money to get me to new york. and then they just happened to be that you guys were in atlanta. so we were doing it this way. i wasn't going to fly to new york. >> all right. i'll take your word for that. we are in atlanta. we don't pay for interviews. it's not out of the ordinary to pay you to come to sit on the set with me. i think that would be a fair thing to do if we want to interview. >> yeah, i wasn't going to -- >> yeah. you're there in atlanta. >> one more question. so you met him a while back. how long ago you said, what year? >> i didn't give you the year, i said it was five or six years. ever since i moved to the east coast. i've been in atlanta. i haven't been -- >> five or six years?

>> so how many times do you think you saw him and there was an exchange of services over the years? >> more than i can count on both hands. the guy has fun. he's donald sterling. you know, it's more than i can count. >> all right. maseratimet, thank you, sir. >> appreciate it. >> donald sterling says he's no frank enstein and claims that he is not the racist but v.stiviano is and after three decades he should be forgiven for a terrible mistake. i'm joined by sam friedman, a contributor "the jewish forward." tim wise, activist and author of "color blind." cnn legal analyst mike geragos and criminal defense attorney

and sally cohen, a cnn political commentator squirming during that. what did you think? >> it was all i could do to -- i don't know sign language. i wanted to reach in front of your face and do the wtf sign language during moments of that. okay, leaving the painful sexism behind for a moment because, of course, we're going to talk about racial bias. it's a great moment to remind each other how these are connected. donald sterling and this whole conversation is a fact that white people can be friends with people of color. they can even date people of color and still hold racially biassed attitude. the one does not create an immunity or something like oh, no, i can't be because i'm dating a woman of color. nope, sorry. not immune. >> i want to get to mark geragos now. there is a whole big legal thing going on here. it was an amazing interview to listen to. what did you make of it?

>> well, if you can't trust your pimp to keep confidences, i don't know who you're going to trust in this day and age. you know, the poor maserati needed a legal advice because he admitted to a misdemeanor. we're a one party state. you should have got smen immunity before you pressed the record button and then released it. so tell him to step back. i mean the whole thing, really, don, we've kind of -- >> even if he recorded the tape in georgia he is still exposed? >> yes, he is still exposed. he has somebody who he knows is in california and there are plenty of prosecutors around who would love to prosecute something like that. but the fact remains, it really is kind of stunning the whole thing. we now have a guy who runs and escort service vouching for the fact he never saw him be a racist. i don't know. the whole thing is rather distasteful.

>> time tim, he did like light skinned black women. >> so did plantation owners during slavery. what difference does that make. >> yeah, a lot of slave owners were sexually attracted to their women and were violent with them. didn't change the fact that they were embedded in a system of racial subordination. i that i is the bigger issue. it gets boring to discuss whether this old sman a racist or not. that is a borgs conversation. what i'm interested in is here is a guy who we know based on his past legal history has a history of institutional mistreatment of black and brown people. he paid the largest settlement fine in the housing discrimination case at the justice department got involved in about a decade ago. so we're talking $2.5 million. not to the nba but the 19 plaintiffs who sued him. the nba didn't think that was something for which he should be disqualified as an owner. now we're talking about

blatantly racist remarks. the bigger issue is he's been imbedded in a pattern and practice of bad treatment for a period of time. that's what makes this say race story, not whether he's a bigot. i wish we focus more on that rather than as him as an individual person. >> we will. that's why we have you here, mr. wise, and the rest of our panel. we'll focus on that and much, much more. stand by, earl and sam. you'll get n everybody stay with me here. we will have more from donald sterling's interview with anderson cooper and that's next. a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, this can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain, and improve daily physical function so moving is easier. because just one 200mg celebrex a day can provide 24 hour relief for many with arthritis pain. and it's not a narcotic you and your doctor should balance the benefits with the risks.

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we're back now with my guests. i want to get reaction with the latest leaked audio to come out

now. i want to start with sam friedman, a contributor to "the jewish daily forward." what did you make of the interview? he said i didn't get money for it. i released it because i was upset at what he said. i thought he was a racist after talking to him. but before i did not because he liked black girls, according to him. but he liked them light skinned. >> i think there is a particular american psychosis about race that he's part of. i think donald sterling being akin to strom thur manned, segregationist senator from south carolina who found out had had a biracial child by his family's african-american maid. i think of him akin to lee atwater who is so renowned for his love of blues commercial but he played the race card in the george h.w. bush versus michael dukakis election. i don't find anything at all odd, in fact, it's sadly very real to me that someone who is

attracted to black people or people of color as lovers, as sexual play things as entertainment on a basketball court is repelled by his own attraction and reviles those people whether they're his tenants or would be tenants in his rental properties. and, you know, as tim said before, why does it take, you know, the salacious things, the secret taping, the talk to the mistress, the talk to the escort service operator to raise this issue? there's a long track record of discriminatory charges against him that go back 12, 13 years. >> so, earl, i want you to listen to another sound bite. i want to get to what you have to say on this. this is anderson cooper, released new sound from his exclusive interview with donald sterling. and i want you to listen and then we'll talk. >> do you think that is a problem in america, racism? do you think -- >> i don't think so. i think it's better than any other place in the world.

>> you don't see it as a big problem here? >> i don't see it. i'm not, you know, an african-american. you know, judaism and -- i don't think the jews have any problem. i mean there's a couple of people that they killed that are jews coming out of a synagogue and you remember all that. but in general, i think america handles everything well. >> so earl, sterling doesn't believe racism is still a problem in the united states. is he naive or does he just not understand the concept of racism? >> well, probably all of the above. why would we be surprised at that? you know, one thing i'm mindful of when i heard him say that, by the way, i heard him say similar things before and others like him. you know, poll after poll after poll, survey after survey after survey has shown one thing that

when you look at race and racism, many whites are in deep denial. if fact, everything is fine. so what happens is you see an oprah, you see a magic, you see a bob parsons, you see multimillionaires, you see corporation heads and executives that are african-american, you see those in personalities and celebrities all over the place. so there is the illusion. maybe delusion in america that everything is fine. how can you say an oprah or how can you say someone like a bob johnson or denzel washington suffers racism? look at them. look at their status. look at their position. look at their wealth. look at their power. look at their influence. so it's easy to be in denial. so sterling is no different than anyone else. we hear this over and over and over again. so it's no surprise. you can say -- >> wait a minute. >> before you jump in, earl, you said you heard him say things like that before.

do you believe this gentlemen we had on? >> no. you know what, i think when you mention naivete, i think there was naivete there that you would have someone like him. and there are other african-americans i've heard during the sterling drama over the last couple weeks that essentially are giving him a pass. so i think there is naivete on all sides. i. >> i don't think he is giving hum a pass. i think he thought he wasn't a racist and the subsequent -- >>, no i ment in the beginning. >> right. in the beginning. but he walked it back after that. >> i got you. >> but he had to. because he could hear it himself. >> i got you. >> this jumps off what earl just said, you listen to donald sterling, it's like listening to a dinosaur breathing his last gasp. he seems like an old form of racism that hopefully is dying but we people and especially white people need to realize that racial bias in its more subtle and hard to notice and far less talked about on television news, it is all

around us. it's like the water we live in. >> you realize that by talking about this, donald sterling, like he called anderson a racist. he said we're racist for talking about. this we're going to get the response on the other side of the break. you know, my thing is what is the definition of a racist? i want to tell you about a very important e-mail i got from a friend. we're going to do it. tim and sam and everybody, earl, stand by. of all donald sterling's shocking quotes, the ultimate could be i'm not a racist, right? yeah, donald sterling and i'm not black either. at this point it's pretty obvious, yes, he is a racist. that's an easy one. how do we really know if we're racist? maybe a tougher question than you think. that's next.

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my panel is standing by. first i want to tell you about this. magic johnson a popular figure in los angeles not only for his great career with the lakers but for his business success. stephanie, you know, you went out into the los angeles area to get reaction to the scandal and sterling's derogatory comments. this is clearly sparking a larger discussion on race and racism in our country. did that come up in your conversations when you spoke to people? >> it did, don. we went out to this community which is known as a black community in l.a. we went to the starbucks and found some people who were outside of it. this is stash bucks that magic actually first established to get their take on race relations and how this impacted it. take a listen to what they had to say. has this brought to the

forefront the current state of how the races are getting along here in l.a.? that there may still be this undercurrent that we're not seeing on the day to day but that still exists? >> i think it still exists. i would agree with you when you say it's an undercurrent. it's just not as pref lent much it's still there. tldz a lot of work still to be done. on both parties. if you're minority or if you're white. >> race relations are definitely getting better. the majority in this city are damn good people. >> people are who they are. and what the sterling thing has done is caused people to talk about it and look at it possibly from a different angle, a different light. >> i don't think it's changed. i just think that the people that are racist are going to be more secretive with it. and i mean it mi open up a little more discussion about it and then, you know, in front of the public eye they may treat black people a little different.

>> and these three men on the left are all retirees. the gentleman on the right, he told me he works. it's interesting to hear how they discuss this and they said that this discussion part is what needs to happen here and not just in l.a. but across the country, don. >> thank you very much. i'm back now with my panel here. i want to get to tim wise. the whole question about people not knowing or denying they're racist, how does one really know? >> well, there are lots of different ways. there are lots of research saying that a vast majority of us are exposed to racial biases and internalized them because that's so ubiquitous. that's why i'm so bored with the conversation. i'll tell what you to me was the most racist comment donald sterling made. it's not the obvious blatant ones. it's the denial that he issued about racism being a larger social problem. why is that in and of itself racist? here's what i say about that. it seems to me clear if you go and ask people of color in this country and polls have done

this, do you think racism is still a big problem in your own experience in this country? the vast majority of say, yes. so when white people like donald sterling, but not just him, the vast majority say it's not a problem, it's like telling black and brown people they're not rational enough. you're too emotional. you're not intelligent. let me the superior white person tell you your truth. to me, even though it may not seem racist, the undercurrent of that denial is itself a form of white supremacy. we ought to be talking about that. >> so you can send your tweets to tim wise saying that he's a tool and a racist and i'm not. >> tim is so right on there that we don't -- we don't realize. it's like the fish in the fishbowl, right? you grow up in america. you have to remember, it wasn't very long ago that white people could own people of color. it wasn't very long ago in our history that we legally segregated schools and public

accommodatio accommodations. this is a part of our history. it is the water we swim in. it's not just people's experience. what tim said, it's the facts, right? people are -- people are very different experiences in hiring and income and in their ability to get bank loans based on race. >> go asahead, sam. >> so it's how it plays out in law and public policy. i could care less in many way what's donald sterling says. i don't care about that. what i do care about is what he does. the consequence of his actions. and how it impacts on literally thousands of people's lives. listen, he said the mistress, girlfriend, whatever waunt to call her, she's a racist too. but here's a problem with that. she doesn't own a professional sports team. she doesn't own thousands of housing units and apartments. she does not have a position in the nba establish. and, in other words, she does not have power.

so she doesn't -- she can have any view she wants. she cannot like anybody she doesn't want and so can sterling. but the point is when you have power to actually implement and control not only public policy, law, but people's lives and directly influence them, you ask a question how can you tell a racist? forget the words, it's their action and the consequences of those actions. >> mark, we heard the last man that stephanie spoke to say maybe this will open up a larger conversation about race. has it, do you think? are the right people listening? >> i don't know. we talk about race all the time. we talk about, well and people say well it's getting better. it's getting better. my limited experiences when i walk in yesterday to the criminal courts building here in los angeles and i see that 80% of the people that were processing or people of color, when i'm in the jail over the weekend and the visiting room and i see that virtually 90% of the people who are there visiting their loved ones who are locked up in custody at the

county jail, 90% it seems like me appears to be people of color. i mean for people to say that we are past racism, we're hoping there is going to be a conversation, all i know is i see on a daily basis what looks like to me the whild older lords processing the same people of color through the criminal justice revolving door. the conversation is almost ludicrous. >> sam, what about the things that donald sterling said about jews in contrast with african-americans? he is comparing races. isn't that racist inherently? >> i don't think it's racist to make that comparison. i think that he's actually correct about the fact that anti-semitism is an experience for jews on a day to day basis and this country declined and where he really erred egregiously is what he takes as the lesson of the holocaust and jewish suffering is unique in

our suffering. you can't compare it to the suffering of blacks. that is part of his exchange. and it's his seeming mistress who is the one who draws the correct conclusion which is that while on one hand the holocaust is a prekul yar jewish experience, the lesson is supposed to be applied universally. you're supposed to take a stand as a jew against other discrimination and not to wall yourself up. and i just thought it was incredibly ironic moment in that conversation that it took her to tell him that lesson about being a jew. >> all right. thank you, gentlemen. thank you all. i want mark and sally to stay with me. everybody elimination, thank you. i really appreciate this conversation. we have very limited time. coming up, celebrities behaving badly. are celebrities acting worse than ever or is it that they're so he'sly caug easily caught th?

we're back. the standard hotel identified the person who released the recordings of jay z and beyonce in a brawl in an elevator. the person has been terminated and charges will be pursued. it's an example that in this day and age, a tmz age and with cameras everywhere that no one is safe, especially celebrities. it is the celebrities bai behavior getting worse or is it because there is so much demand to catch them doing something wrong? we have more now. >> are you kidding me? >> another day, another celebrity caught in the web of ever present cameras. for justin bieber, it was a night with friends at a batting cage in california. but an alleged altercation on monday night changed everything. a bystander tried to take pictures of him with her phone, bieber allegedly tried to take the phone. now he is accused of attempted

robbery. is any publicity good publicity? >> any publicity is not necessarily bad publicity. that is an old adage. people believe it's not the case. it does ruin your reputation. for example, beyonce doesn't need a video of her sister attacking her husband. >> but that's what hotel security cameras captured, the video leaked to tmz went viral. >> the media is taking advantage of the new technology. celebrities privacy has always been under attack. and right now there are so many web sites and magazines. they're all competing for this amazing secret footage. and a lot of the outlets pay. that is driving market demand. >> so the question is, are more celebrities behaving badly or it is just harder than environmenter to get away with it? cell phones are everywhere. and they've got cameras. so anybody can be that reporter and you better watch out or you'll be on camera. for alec baldwin, it was a simple bike ride aloaning fifth avenue. pulled over by the police, cited

for riding the rong way and disorderly conduct. >> for alec baldwin the folk us is not on his art, craft. he's an ashgtor. now you think about baldwin, he is synonymous with temper tantrums. >> baldwin captured in cuffs on the scene, confronted by paparazzi at home. meanwhile, photographers outside my home once again terrified my daughter and nearly hit her with a camera. the police did nothing. >> we live in a world of such, you know, prepackaging. i think there is in the public a real desire to see the real story, what's going on literally behind closed doors. so any time we have an opportunity to do that, you know, we jump at it. >> as long as the public eats it up, expect to see more caught on tape. >> all right. i want to bring my guest back in. now joining me is cadkathleen h. elaine lui and back with me now,

mark geragos, of course, and sally cohen in the hot seat. are celebrities really misbehaving more or just that we all joined the ranks of the pop ra paparazzis as consumers? >> i think celebrities are behaving the way they've always behaved. it's just now we have more ways than ever to observe them. in the past, they had people who do help them cover it up or at least help them remain behind the veil. but they're participating in these new social media ways, too. many celebrities have joined twitter n celebrities are posting very personal photos and intimate moments on insta gram. it's like they can't help but share their lives with us, too. so it's a give and take. the consumer wants more but they're wanting more because they're responding to a stimulus. and that stimulus is thrown out there by many celebrities. >> mark, then there are the

leakers. someone leaked a video of the elevator fight between beyonce's sister and jay z. do you expect privacy in a place like that? i think you have an expectation of privacy in an elevator? >> you would think you could have privacy. all you have to do is look in the elevator and see there is a security camera. that could be leaked. and the amounts of money that are being paid for these tapes are astronomical. five or six years during the initial stages of the chris brown case ran the two police officers who leaked the picture of rihanna, it was reported then and i had pretty good evidence that they had made $62,000 back then for leaking that picture. that's a lot of money. that's for two people who are on the lapd payroll that is virtually a year's salary. so, you know, it's tough to

compete with that. >> we're hearing $250,000 for this video. that's a lot of money even nun someone doesn't -- >> i will tell that you the v.stiviano video exceeded that amount if you believe the lawyer that confided in me that he is the one that sold it to tmz. so those are real. that is real money. >> oh, my goodness. there might be other reasons why people leak things. i want you to listen to why he released tapes of himself and donald sterling. >> i didn't set him up. i really don't. when i first called him, it wasn't that. i hit the recording button. i didn't care at the time. i mean this guy, he said some stuff that i got offended to and

thn he talking about magic johnson. i look up to magic johnson. so, you know, clearly, you know, i -- it just really ticked me off. so that's what made me hit the record button. >> he says he -- >> when you offend pam p, you know you've gone too far. >> he says he didn't get paid. do you believe him? >> do i believe that he didn't get paid? look, he says he didn't. i don't know. i'm stunned that he would announce on television that he committed what mark aptly, correctly said earlier is a crime in california. you need to have both parties permission to record conversations especially when you have an expectation of privacy in a phone call. that's why i look at the justin bieber situation. somebody was in public trying to take a picture with her cell phone and bieber tried to take the phone. that's different than a conversation on a telephone or even in an elevator. i'm glad that this hotel is taking action against the

employee. you know, it's a crime. celebrities are behaving badly all the time. we cover that daily. but everybody is a paparazzi now. the second i go out to my house i know i can be on camera. i'm on the best behavior all the time. and i'm not a celebrity. >> i want to get to kathleen. she is sitting there very patiently. you represent celebrity athletes. can they tell the difference between a fan and amateur? everyone now has a camera. someone tried to take pictures of justice continue beti justine was out with friends. isn't that what being a celebrity is about. you're part of the public and they kind of can take pictures of you when they want to? >> absolutely, there's no way when you go in public and make your living based on the favor of the public that you can expect them not to do something like that. so you have to be on your guard all the time. there's no way that anyone can

go out in public and not be on their guard because anybody can pick up on them. when it comes to taping on the telephone, what normal person has a tape recorder next to the telephone and automatically clicks on it anyway? >> it's on phone. >> yeah. >> the tape recorder is on the phone. >> it has to be there for a purpose. >> yeah. it didn't just happen to be there. >> he thought it out. coming up, you know, in an age where everyone has a pocket sized high definition camera at their finger tips at every waking hour, have we all become paparazzi? that's next. life with crohn's disease or ulcerative colitis

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back with my guests now. so first question to elaine. most everyone has a camera and a video on their smart phone these days. posting them on social media sites all the time s there a limit to people's obsession with celebriti celebrities? have we created monsters out of everyone, pretty much? >> i don't think we've created monsters out of everyone. you can use it effectively. you can use it to your advantage and many celebrities do. they use their own cameras to post videos on their own sites so that they can promote their projects. i think that difference is that we're not really having a discussion about privacy. we're having a discussion about control. what celebrities are bucking against isn't the fact that their privacy is being violated. they're bucking against the fact that they're not able to control every time somebody walks around a mall or justin bieber goes to

a batting cage he doesn't get to control the mother and the child who are photographing him. it's not about privacy. >> something tells me he was missing too many shots and embarrassed. there is another part of this, don. these aren't all celebrities that people are chasing down and posting the videos of. like there is a lot of celebrities. very famous people allowed to live their lives privately. the celebrities who have value in the tmz world are the ones who are simultaneously exploiting their own social media capital and constantly posting stuff about them. they're superstars. they want to be but they don't want to pat price. >> this goes beyond celebrity. i don't know if you heard about this. it's a tendency to whip out your cell phone and shoot everything. it has a real down side. last week in new york when this young woman fanlted on to subway tracks and hit her head badly. father of three jum independent to save her. as he pulled her back to the platform, he looked up to see everyone with their cell phones out and no one else was helping. that's disheartening, mark.

>> but there is something that can happen there. there is a camera -- >> go ahead, kathleen. >> you have a camera and you've got something between you and what's going on. so they can be in the middle of it but they can distance themselves with that camera or with that phone. i think that makes it easier for people to say i'm here but i'm not here. >> mark? >> i was just going to say in the interest of full disclosure, i have no problem with celebrities behaving badly. it's my full employment act. i really don't have any criticism for it. go out, behave badly. >> come on. >> unless i've seen his pnl, i don't think is a future client. >> is it ridiculous for celebrities to expect the same right to privacy as the rev of

us? i'm asking you the sap question in a dufrn way over and over? >> no. >> that's for jim, kathleen. >> i do think -- well, look. you know, you live by the sword and die by the sword. you can't demand attention and then say, no, no, put the cameras away when i'm not ready. you go out in public. i know a lot of celebrities lead normal lives and they don't worry about cameras. there are going to be cameras wherever you go. but there are another group of celebrities that fame this disapproval of all the cameras and yet secretly want it, too. and i do believe it is an issue of control. i think ultimately that is really what we're talking about. control of the message which they lose when everyone else has a camera and we're all voyeurs now. >> you're sending us your questions and we're going to answer them right after this. ♪ [ male announcer ] since we began, mercedes-benz has pioneered many breakthroughs. ♪ breakthroughs in design... breakthroughs in safety...

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expectation of privacy, is it really over for everyone not just celebrities? >> yes. >> it's over. >> we're raising hands for yes or no? >> for a yes. >> yes. >> everybody. oh, everybody. it's over. unanimous. >> done. >> thank you for joining us. i'm don lemon. i appreciate it. ""ac 360"" starts right now. hey, good evening. thanks for joining me. more of my exclusive interview embattled clippers owner donald sterling. the parts you have not heard from him as the backlash grows by the day. there's been talk of a player boycott led by lebron james if sterling is still the owner when the new season starts in the fall. in a few moments, we'll hear from roger mason, jr., the national president of the national basketball player's association. he'll try to set the record straight on what the players are planning to do. sterling has been banned for life, fined $2.5 million for