direct knowledge of the meeting, that deal could be announced as early as this afternoon. and if it's approved, at&t will buy directv for about $50 billion. this comes a few months after another big telecom deal when comcast announced it was buying time warner cable. i'm erin mcpike in washington. "reliable sources" starts right now. good morning from washington. it's time for a jack-packed "reliable sources." . i'm brian seltzer, and robin roberts is here talking openly with me about some things she hasn't talked about before. i think her candor will surprise you. let's begin with this week's pr disaster as the most powerful newspaper in this country, the "new york times." there are new developments and i'll get to that in a second. the times newspaper is in a real turmoil after the firing of top editor jill abramson. people there are stunned. she is the first woman ever to

run the time newsroom. she is a role model for women and some men, and as soon as she enrolled, her allies claimed unfair pay systems at the time. the other narrative is coming from the times publisher. he and his allies say she was a bad manager. solsberger said he would give no details, but then he had no choice. he listed his problems with her. look at this. arbitrary decision making. a failure to consult and bring colleagues with her. inadequate communication, and the public mistreatment of colleagues. pretty strong stuff. now, i worked at the times for six years. that means i worked for abramson and the editor who came before her. she was necessarily not a people person. she could be gruff and even rude.

when i told her i may be leaving the times, her attitude made it easier to leave. now people are asking, beyond unequal pay and management skills, is this expectations for women in journalism? abramson wearing boxing gloves, hash tag pushy. that's one of the words used to describe her managing style. first let me bring in ken aretta. since wednesday he has had scoop after scoop about what happened. ken, thank you for joining me. >> my pleasure. >> you and i were sitting together at a journalism food editor. in retrospect, should we have known something was brewing. when did abramson start to find out about this? >> what happened was she was fired by arthur solzberg, the friday before that monday.

. you know, in my in box at 2:36 on wednesday afternoon came this flash that jill abramson has been replaced as editor of the "new york times." >> were you as surprised as we all were? >> totally surprised, yes. what happened in the first two weeks was that jill abramson thought she was being paid less than her male counterpart and less than her formal successor as washington bureau chief. she was upset, she went to the publishers, went to the ceo. she then raised questions and complained. they had a lawyer who met with

her. they thought it was kind of a war-like stance on her part. that fed to a narrative that was growing in the mind of syracuse -- >> how did the pay issue lead into the decision to remove her. but if you think about it, she was basically challenging them. if she was paid less, she had any reason to challenge them, and in pay scale, it's what i got and a bigger issue than the pay issue. >> i think they all came together. i think there was a narrative in their mind, a single narrative, which was that jill was difficult. i think the pay issue help.

>> in my experience, jill could be difficult at times, i've worked for her. so could every editor? >> in the end, he was fired because solzberger, punch solzberger, fired him because he thought he was too and yet, on the other hand, here's the conundrum. you're supposed to be difficult because part of your job is to tell people it's not good enough, get other sources, get another rewrite. that's your job and you want an editor to be tough. she's a fantastic journalist, no one is questioning that. the question was, was she a collaborative personality?

was she someone who brought people along? and some people thought she did, but many people, including most important, the publisher of the "new york times," did not. >> ultimately this story is about the publisher. the "new york times" is special in part because it's a family-owned newspaper. but i'm seeing a lot of people in the last few days ask about the competence of the publisher. >> one of the questions is the publisher has two tasks. one is to protect the journalism, and arthur so solzberger, jr. has done a great job of protecting the newspaper. it's the world's greatest newspaper, in my judgment. but a publisher's job is also to protect the business side of the paper. and the times as a business is not a good business. so in that sense he's failed. >> when you read the innovation report that was circulated inside the newspaper in march and then leaked via buzzfeed this week, you get the sense

that he's a real business person. >> and the person who was a chair of that task force and wrote the report, he was going around the newsroom and was basically finding out things about how people felt about the management, meaning jill abrams abramson. >> it's hard to imagine any couple and having the boss' son write about how they're reporting. >> he represents the family and ownership of that institution, and he's going to give his father advice. >> let's talk about his last days and weeks of the times. you talk about him firing a lawyer. who would just hire a. >> well, potentially there is federal and state law that basically says you may not

terminate someone if they've come to you about their pay and you then terminate them. it's mostly done to protect women -- >> is a lawsuit possible in this case? what have you heard? >> i don't know -- i know that abramson's friends are very aware of this and have talked about it. whether they're going to do something about it, i don't know. >> aware of the -- >> aware of the fact did the times fire her in some wide measure because she complained about comparable pay? >> so you think it is possible we could see someone fired. one of the questions becomes her here. >> i've left messages on her cell phone, and she doesn't respond. i've talked to associates and

friends. but is she going to want to be as combative as that picture of her wearing boxing gloves? i don't know. >> thank you for being with us this morning. >> thanks. there is a lot more to say wlug that. you're going to want to hear what he has to say and my other guest as well. stay tuned.

the story isn't over, not even close. that's what jill abramson's daughter wrote on instagram on friday, two days after abramson was fired from the "new york times." this morning we're talking about the outcry that has followed her departure. the fact of the matter is that abramson did not choose to leave the times quietly nor was it her decision. she is planning to interview at wake forest university tomorrow.

what might she say? is she a victim of a double standard in the media? arthur solzberger, the times' publisher, did point out why he thought she was such a bad manager. we've put it on cnn.com for you to read. now let's bring in people who can help shed some light on this. she wrote for the times for decades and left in 2011. and rebecca shaster, a senior editor for the public. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> since we both wrote for the times, are you as angry as i am about how badly thfis was handled? >> yes, i'm angry. i'm angry for dean who deserved a better ascension to this job that he was always going to get. i'm angry for jill and that however she managed, and there is a lot of question about that,

she deserved better exits, and i'm mystified about the times. how can the premier journalism entity in the world handle a story so badly? rebecca, followi >> rebecca, following up on that, you called it humiliating for her. >> i think it was designed in some way to humiliate her, to make it clear that she was canned. now there's reporting being done that says she chose to be fired and not to resign, but the wording in the sendoff that solzberger gave her, she's a historical figure. she's the first female editor at the "new york times." this is a major event, and her departure after only two and a half years deserved much more of a respectful sendoff, a sort of cataloging of what her

achievements have been, whatever t the failings have been, the reasons for firing. >> let's talk about her management skills because both of you brought up whether she had management failings. you wrote that piece about a year ago that people now look at and say it was prescient, that you were the first to identify some of the problems. what were they, according to your sources? >> sure. there was a feeling certainly among a large portion of the staff that she could be difficult to work with. that she could be brusque, is one word that was used. an extraordinarily talented journalist with many years of experience, was not quite the right person to lead a newsroom. >> if i may, i'd like to talk about the characterization of her as brusque and her management style bad and difficult to work with. i'm sure those things are true. i'm not questioning the veracity of dillon's report ing on that

and i've certainly heard discontent about her management style over the years. i would say brusqueness and short tempers are not unusual in the world of media, and certainly not at the "new york times." staff used to say -- there was one report at the time of his exit that he ruled the newsroom using fear. abe rosenthall was probably a very brisk editor. it's not to say those accounts are inaccurate in some way. it is true that we have to consider how we read those qualities versus how we're conditioned to accept them in male leaders. >> what i'm speaking to here, it's, i think, deeper than that. i think certainly if you look at what the publisher, arthur

solzberger said, he had deep frustrations with issued relate to do her management. i don't think these issues had anything to do with maybe intense conversations or maybe a feeling that she was being too forceful, i think the frustration certainly goes much deeper than that and have to do with ways that she managed that got in the way of the newsroom functioning in a healthy manner. >> she's been paid less than a man in a similar position, she says, going back ten years now. and women are, as a rule, paid less in newsrooms than men are. so that has also caught fire as part of the narrative here. and that is concerning. that is something that is larger than just jill abramson and whatever arguments she was having with arthur solzberger. >> that's why this may matter in the long runs. speaking to female staffers at the time, i hear a lot of concern about issues of

promotion and pay. let me quote two female staffers, of course, on condition of anonymity because they're so concerned speaking publicly. one said, i'm surprised to hear so many men talking about this issue. this is an issue. rebecca, do you have an opinion and what can be done about it? >> one of the interesting things, under jill abramson's tenu tenure, there was a lot done about it. a lot of women were promoted. that's another element in this dismissal that, again, i'm not suggesting that she shouldn't have been fired because of it. there may have been any number of reasons that she legitimately lost her job. but there is a story about gender and parody in newsrooms, and of course, in any other realm across the country when you lose women at the top

bringing women up behind her. >> it would be impossible to suggest that questions of sexism are not at play when you're discussing the workplace, when you're discussing matters of equal pay. at the same time, i think that we do have to be open to the possibility that she might have legitimately been fired because of issues of management and that it was not an issue of gender. i think we have to be open to both those possibilities. >> the big mistake here, the big failing on the part of the times is not recognizing the gender dynamics at play, not recognizing that all this press coverage was going to happen. >> they're not recognizing the story. they didn't recognize what the story was going to be, which is stunning. and they didn't have answers when the questions started being asked. >> i would also like to jump in with one point in response to what dillon once said. we often talk too simplistically about sexism and racism and

homophobia. it's much more complicated in a way that then makes the firing more legitimate. it is certainly possible for her to be dismissed for legitimate reasons and for those legitimate reasons to also have been threaded or viewed through a lens that was relate to do her gender. >> any guess about what jill abramson does next? >> it's very hard to tell. i think most former "new york times" editors have had a way of slowly drifting off into relative obscurity against this position that they had. hal raines, we no longer hear from him. bill keller is doing something called the martial project, which has nothing much to do with the news. it's unpredictable what she'll do next. >> any idea what she'll do next? >> i have no idea. >> i think that instagram of her boxing is our only clue.

a quick reminder here, you can read more of my coverage of the mess on the times. let me know what questions you have about all of this. up next here, she's possibly the most beloved host in all of television news. robin roberts from america's "good morning america" has helped them win awards. she is here with me right after this break. of complete darkness. i am totally blind. i've been blind since birth. i lost my sight to eye disease. i lost my sight in afghanistan. and it doesn't hold me back. but my blindness can affect my sleep patterns.

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robin roberts is the biggest star in morning television right now. in a moment i'll show you my interview with her, but first let me take you back two years, to the last time i sat down with her under very different circumstances. it was august 2012 and i was interviewing her for my book called "top of the morning." her top show "good morning america" had just ended for the day and robin was about to go to a chemotherapy treatment. she had mds, a rare plood disord -- blood disorder, and it was a transplant which was the secret to success. there was a lot she didn't share, more than i realized at the time. when i sat down with her this week, she shared really candid details about the illness, about the recovery and working for gma now that she's back and in some

ways better thanr. r ever. robin's book and my book were both published by the same company, grand central. even though i had that interview, it was very hard to get. here it is. >> you just want to live your life, because the moment you tell somebody about an illness, the tilt of the head, are you okay? and it comes from a great place and you realize that people really mean well, but you don't want to talk about it all the time, and you doept want to just seem like a debbie downer. not that anybody ever made me feel that way, and because the show was doing so well and it was such a happy moment professionally that the last thing i wanted to do was to bring people down. >> a couple things surprised me toward the end of the book. you talk about seeing a therapist. i don't think you had talked about that on air, for one thing, and you say it's actually common for people after they've been through a traumatic experience, a giant surgery the way you did, to seek out help

because they seem sad in some way. tell me about that. >> i even talked to amy robock about that because she just finished one phase of her treatment, and you think you'll be woo hoo, it's over, the chemo, the treatment, whatever, you'll be celebrating. you realize that even though it was uncomfortable, somebody was checking on you. now it was like go on. go on by yourself and figure it out. i've been doing a lot more work lately about cancer survivorship and the millions of people who survive cancer after going through the collateral damage with medications and things that have saved our life, and i'm not ashamed to say that i needed help. i needed to seek a therapist and do it from time to time just because of the psyche. because you, when not once but twice, have been at death's door and you go through the guilt of why am i still here rather than

others who faced a similar situation? >> you write that i was told one day i would wake up and not even think about cancer. have you had one of those days since all this? >> that's a good one. i'm two years out. i still every six weeks have a mild form of chemotherapy that should stop at the two-year mark when i'm two years old. i didn't think i would not think about cancer before, and i did. so i'm sure i will again. >> it happened. you probably didn't notice for a while. >> i didn't notice. days had gone by, weeks had gone by and i was like, i haven't really thought about it. i feel certain the stronger i get and the more that i am just being able to do the things that i love to do that it will be in my rearview mirror. >> you right in your book about your girlfriend amber, and you hadn't spoken publicly about her until last december on facebook,

of all things. were you surprised there was a shrug? >> we were really surprised that there was just a big shrug of the shoulders. but yes, i hadn't publicly in that kind of way expressed my gratitude and love for this person who has been standing by me. so many people have come up to me, brian, and it wasn't even a part of the story i was really thinking about or concentrating on, and the number of young people who have come up and said that they can now have a conversation with their parents. gayle king said this the other day that somebody came up to her -- and this catches me -- and said that a young man whose mother was having a tough time and said, if it's okay for robin, it's okay for my son. i find it surprising that somebody in your own family that

don't even know me, but for whatever reason, it helps you understand your own family member orientation, wow. i just never -- i've been so busy fighting for my life that i didn't even think about that aspect of the story, but i'm very grateful that it is creating dialogue for families. >> michael sam talks about maybe he'll be a beacon for others. do you think about it in the same way? >> i think that's for others to determine. i don't look at myself that way. i'm flattered that people do say that about me, but that's not for me to say. >> what did you think of michael sam's drafting, by wathe way, a the now famous kiss that's broadcast? >> it was amazing. what was he supposed to do, shake his hand? i mean, really. i think it was one of those moments also when you see it -- when you saw it happen, it was spontaneous. >> so natural. >> it was so natural, so quick. when you see the picture, it seems different than what actually occurred.

but that doesn't matter. it doesn't matter. he's happy like every other young man was happy and turned to somebody and showed their gratitude and expressed their love for the person that was next to them. his just happened to be his boyfriend. i think that he has handled it very well, and i think overwhelmingly, the response has been positive. >> this is barbara walters' last week on "the view." and we've seen so much media coverage about how she was a trailblazer for women, how she made jobs like yours possible. did you ever see where she was stereotyped as a woman and held back? >> i'm not even going to compare myself to barbara walters. this woman, i wouldn't be here, you wouldn't -- there's so many of us, male, female in this business that would not be enjoying the careers we are if not for her. interviewed every president since nixon. the first woman morning anchor, evening news anchor.

i'll say this. you know how it was made about -- if you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be? she would be a strong and majestic oak and her roots run deep and touch us all. phenomenal. >> do you think she's really retiring? >> no. no, no. i think she's saying it, and i think she means it, but she is -- come on, just this week, you know, she has mrs. sterling, donald sterling's wife, shelley sterling, she's talked to her. she's talked to the two principals involved in that case. yes, she's going to take a lesser role as far as the amount of time, but she's going to be a player. she's going to be fighting us for those big interviews, i can tell, going forward, and rightfully so. >> you write about how people love to root for the perceived underdog. now gma has been rooting for two years.

now do you think that since -- when you strut, you stumble. we're not going around saying we're number one. we're doing the exact same thing as we've done all along since the moment i got here, and that's to produce the best show we possibly can. it's very gratifying the public is responding and they're making it number one, so by no means are we going around thinking we're top dog. >> robin's book is in hardcover now. the paperback edition of my book "top of the morning" came out this week. now it's almost top of the afternoon, so coming up here, i'm sure you saw these sound bites all over the news this week. >> what does he got? >> he's a businessperson. >> he's got aids. i think you're more of a racist than i am. >> what was it like to sit across from him?

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welcome back to "reliable sources." the racial ramp by l.a. clippers donald sterling has been a made-for-tv story. it all started with the recording of his complaints about african-americans joining his team and it evolved from there. his name has been uttered thousands of times since this all started and that was before he gave an exclusive interview to anderson cooper. it started to air here on monday, and it was bizarre, to say the least. at one point cooper accused sterling of being a racist. you can imagine how many tv

bookers were clamoring for that interview. i wanted to ask anderson how it came about and it turns out it was a fascinating story. anderson, thanks for joining me. >> sure. >> so many people wanted this donald sterling interview. how did the process begin to lead you to it? >> literally i had flown to los angeles a week and a half ago, two weeks ago for a "60 minutes" story i was working on, and when i landed, i heard that donald sterling had agreed to talk that day to barbara walters and to me. and so i went to the four seasons hotel and was in a hotel room on the 14th floor. i think barbara walters was on the 16th floor, and in walked donald sterling and v. stiviano with one of her attorneys -- >> together. >> yeah, together, which really surprised me. they said the cameras are off the record, which we discussed, but -- >> this was to see if they wanted to talk to you on camera?

>> yeah, it lasted for maybe 10 or 15 minutes. it was one of the stranger get to know you sessions i've had, and i'm not much of a salesman in terms of trying to get people to do interviews with me. i believe in just being honest with somebody and telling them the pros and cons of something. for me with donald sterling, what i said to him was, look, you need to get out in front of this thing. you need to say something. i'm not going to tell you what you need to say but you need to say something because you're being defined by all these people who are leaking tapes of you, and you just need to say something. and he wondered if v. stiviano should go on with him, and my advice to him was, i would not have -- i don't think you guys should be together. i think you need to say something on your own. and they said that they would -- were going to do it but they weren't sure what day, it wouldn't be that day. they left the room together, and the next thing i know, she

popped up on barbara walters that night. my understanding is he refused to -- >> and they said no interview for you. >> right, they said no interview, and my understanding is donald sterling decided he did not want to talk on that day to anybody. i've subsequently learned from "magic" johnson that he had approached "magic" johnson about doing an interview with barbara walters with "magic" johnson kind of providing him cover sitting there with him, and "magic" johnson obviously said no. i thought that was it, i thought it was done, and a week went by and i got a call last saturday saying, come out to l.a., he's going to do it. and sunday we did it. >> what kind of wooing happens for these big binterviews? you said you'll tell the person the pros and cons. >> i'm not good at this. i'm not one to sell myself. if somebody wants to talk, that's great. i'm going to give them a fair chance, i'm going to ask hard questions, but i'm going to be fair and allow them to get their voice out there. and i always say to people -- i

did an interview with the first juror in the trayvon martin case to speak, and i believe that interview was supposed to be on the "today" show, but i met with her and we talked for half an hour, and i was just very up front. i said, look, i'm not going to tell you to do me. you can do whoever you're most comfortable w aith, and if you don't do an interview with me, here's who i would recommend do you an interview with. >> really? >> yeah. i think journalism should be honest, and there's plenty of good people -- >> i bet that sometimes works for you in your favor to get the soft sell. >> to me it's not even a sell. i just want to be honest with anybody i'm dealing with and up front in all my dealings. so i constantly tell people, look, it's okay if you don't want to do me, i'm not going to be hurt, and if you don't talk to me, here's another program i think would be good for you even if it's at another network.

i'll give people honest opinions as i just feel like it's my job to be honest. which means i don't get a lot of big interviews a lot of times because there are more agressive people out there, i imagine. >> we definitely, for better or worse, learned more about him through the interview and that was ultimately the point. >> absolutely. and again, it was really left up to him to kind of decide how he wanted this interview to flow and what you see is how he decided to handle this. >> anderson, thanks for sharing the story behind the story with us. >> sure. by the way, story behind the story, what i said to anderson at the end there, that was a jill abramson line. that was always what she wanted her reporters at the "new york times" to do. you can hear me covering this story all week, even bringing it up with anderson. time for a break here. but stay tuned because on the other side we're talking about a topic that's been uncovered on television. a topic that concerns every single one of us and a topic that the government is now asking the public for feedback about.

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this next story is about something we all have a stake in, the future of the worldwide web. and all the news and information and audio and video that flow through it. you've probably seen headlines like this lately. fcc moves forward with fast lane plan. the fcc is the federal communications commission. it enforces the rules of the road when it comes to telephones, broadcast television, et cetera. it's considering new regulations that would allow companies like amazon and netflix to get

prioritized information on consumers. would there be a slow lane, too? that idea scares a lot of people who treasure internet independence and see it as a lane free of restriction. some of them have actually been camping out on the concrete of the commissioner's building in washington, d.c. they're using protests of the occupied movement to get their message out. here's what one of the organizers had to say. >> i think the movement is really building toward reclassification of the internet as a common carrier to really protect the internet as an open and free resource for all. and so i'm really looking forward to the future. >> i want to get to that term reclassification in a couple of minutes. i hope we can explain this in terms we can all understand. i'm joined now by one of the five fcc commissioners, jessica morganwersal. thanks for being here. >> thanks for having me. >> we're just at the beginning of a public debate about a free,

open internet. >> that's right, this is a process. and actually it began with a court decision back a warning f

join a.m.ists everywhere, a case of plagiarism at cnn. tell you what happened and what cnn did it about it next. c'mon, you want heartburn? when your favorite food starts a fight, fight back fast, with tums. heartburn relief that neutralizes acid on contact. and goes to work in seconds. ♪ tum, tum tum tum... tums!

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that corporate trial by fire when every slacker gets his due. and yet, there's someone around the office who hasn't had a performance review in a while. someone whose poor performance is slowing down the entire organization. i'm looking at you phone company dsl. check your speed. see how fast your internet can be. switch now and add voice and tv for $34.90. comcast business built for business. finally this morning, you would think in this able of google, that no reporter would ever dare to steal sentences from other sources. but i'm sorry to say it recently happened here at cnn. on friday morning, the editors

in charge of cnn's website published this very unusual editor's note about a shocking case of play jarrism. they said that one of the news editors they employed in london named maria louise gamuchigan used other writers' words without attribution in 50 stories, maybe more. the investigationon going. cnn terminated her when it found out and now the place where she previously worked, rueters, says it is also reviewing her stories from back then, looking for more possible instances of plagiarism. cnn only discovered the plainly jarrism during routine editing of one of her stories. then searchers turned up more and more examples, now all the stories have been corrected and some deleted all together. writers love to tang well their editors, i do it on a near-daily basis, but this case, a very rare case, but shows how important ed terror to the process. what an outrageous story. that's all for this televised edition of reliable sources. check us out online on cnn.could.for media coverage all

week long. hope to see you here next sunday at 11 a.m. eastern time. if you can't join us live, make sure you set your dvr. stand by for a news update and then "state of the union" with candy crowley. good morning. i'm erin mcpike and here are the big stories we are following this hour. the army of firefighters battling ferocious fires in southern california are seeing their hard work pay off. they have contained three of seven fires burning in san diego county. and they hope to finish off some of the remaining fires today. calmer winds and cooler temperatures are helping and many of the people who had to evacuate are heading back home today. the "new york times" is now dealing with a follow-up from a high-profile firing. the publisher of the times is disputing claims that sexism fueled the dismissal of his executive editor. arthur suss berger jr. wrote a note to staff outlining his decision to fire jill abramson. and in it, he cited inadequate communication and the public mistreatment of colleagues.

abramson is set to deliver the commencement speech tomorrow at wake forest university in north carolina. the 911 memorial museum opens to the public on wednesday. for now, only first responders and victims' family members were allowed inside. it took eight emotionally charged years to build the museum as a tribute to those who died when terrorists flew hijacked planes into the twin towers, the pentagon and a field in pennsylvania. i'm erin mcpike. "state of the union" with candy crowley starts right now. california simmers after wildfires scorch an area bigger than manhattan.