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tv   Blackfish  CNN  May 24, 2014 6:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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to school in the next year. the deputies discussed options with him in terms of support, offered resources to him and ultimately cleared that call without further action. >> sir, having reviewed the case you're talking about now and knowing what happened here, is there anything in hindsight you think your agency didn't do that should have been done? was there anything you regret? >> well, i'm not going to -- i'm not going to go become planld monday morning quarterback at this point. we're still investigating this incident and exactly what happened in tin ter action that they had, but you've got to understand that this is a fairly routine-type of call that is quite commonplace and the deputies who are well trained and are adept at handling these types of calls did contact this gentleman in an effort to determine whether or not his welfare was imperilled and did not believe for the reasons that they had as a result of that
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contact that he required any further care. so i'm not going to second-guess them at this point. [ inaudible ] >> what can you tell us about the events that happened at the apartment complex? >> as you are aware in the manifesto, he lays out a plan on what he intended to do. i will, without getting into too much detail, i will say that three of the -- there are three people that were murdered in the apartment. it appears as though that happened, you know, prior to him going on this mobile shooting rampage. the three male victims were apparently stabbed repeatedly with sharp objects, and it was a -- a pretty horrific crime scene. [ inaudible ] >> the question is did he shoot himself or was he shot by the
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sheriff's deputies. it appears that he took his own life at this point. [ inaudible ] >> we're still in the process of determining exactly who those people are and making positive identifications and notifying their next of kin, so i can't comment to that right now. [ inaudible ] >> we're going to be looking at any and all evidence that we can gather. we also are asking anyone -- you know, as you can imagine, we've interviewed a huge number of witnesses and there are still probably many more witnesses who we have not yet been in contact with. and if anyone was privy to any information about this case or if anyone actually witnessed any aspect of this rampage that occurred last night, we encourage them to contact the santa barbara county sheriff's office. [ inaudible ]
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>> i can't comment on that right now, nick. [ inaudible ] >> the victims who were killed, the first three were killed in the suspect's residence. the next two were killed outside the alpha phi sorority, and the remaining fatally injured victim was killed on pardol at a business, as a dell ka tell sss. [ inaudible ] >> three in the apartment, two at the sorority, one at the delicatessen. that's six by my might and then the suspect so these total of seven fatalities.
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[ inaudible ] >> what was the timeline of when these guns were purchased? [ inaudible ] >> all three weapons were purchased prior to his contact. so he had -- well, you've got to understand that when a firearm is purchased, there is a check run on people who purchase the firearm. but if a person has not been institutionalized or has not been taken against their will and put on a hold, that information is not entered into the database and is not disqualifying information for someone purchasing a weapon personally. [ inaudible ] we found the stabbing victims in the process of investigating the
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case and went to the suspect's residence. i'm going to take one more question here. [ inaudible ] >> we have not been in contact other than recently other than last night, we were in contact with his parents and interviewed them and notified them of his death. thank you, ladies and gentlemen. appreciate it. >> all right. so we want to recap a lot of interesting details, things now lining up in this tragic rampage last night. we now know that three people, three men were killed at the apartment of the suspect elliot rodgers. two women were killed outside of a sorority. one young man killed at a deli and at that deli rodger actually got out of the car and opened fire. catherine brianne cooper, veronica elizabeth weiss
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christopher ross michael-martinez, all of them, uc santa barbara students attending college there. the guns, three of them, all purchased more than a year ago according to the time line from federally licensed dealers in three separate cities. there was a 9 millimeter -- there were two sig sauer 9 millimeter semiautomatic handguns and one glock. the amount of ammunition startling. for the sig sauers, 34 loaded magazines each with ten rounds in them. for the glock, seven loaded magazines with ten rounds inside of them. the sheriff made clear that, in fact, because this young man was not institutionalized, there was nothing that showed up on his chart saying that he was prevented from purchasing the guns. most interestingly, elliot rodger apparently had contact with sheriff's deputies three times in the last year starting
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in july 2013. one time he claimed that he was the victim of an alleged assault, however, it turned out that he was apparently the alleged aggressor and sheriff's deputies dropped that. in january he accused his roommate of steal 2g $2 worth of candles, charge he pursued. keep in mind, this is somebody from a very privileged background but he brought charges against the roommate. the final incident, april 30th, 2014, that is just 25 days ago. sheriff's deputies at the request of the family went to his home and paid a welfare check on the gunman. apparently the gunman talked his way out at the time saying that he was having difficulties with his social life, that he would not be returning to school. the deputies did not pursue because they said he was courteous, polite, and shy. so, again, points that have been made by our panel, which was
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this was somebody clever enough to talk his way out of any potential problem. we're also told the number of patients, four patients have been treated and released. seven were transferred to a trauma center. two are in good condition. there's are in fair condition. and then there are two that are in serious condition. a lot of information. i want to bring back our panel. jeff gardere, lieu palumbo, holly hurks brian claypool. and we're going to be going to kyung lah and vary sidner. but first, i want to start with you. what does this tell us about the young man. >> again, i don't want to get into finger pointing but the regular flags were missed. the red flags were there. july 21st, treated for injuries. he was actually the instigator. he talks about that in the
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manifes manifesto. went and started a fight in the fras house from what we can tell from this. january 159, stealing three candles. you made a great point. three candles. he comes from a privilege legend family. he made a citizen's arrest. it tells me two incidents in a row he was very, very aggressive, delusionally aggressive. april 30th, a check on his welfare. we don't want to do arm chair quarterbacking. the sheriff's deputies did the best they could. there was not a mental person involve and that's the hole right there. >> that's something that could have been the key that everybody wanted. again, we always look for some possible solution. we're going to come back with much, much more. but first we're going to take a very quick break right now.
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and we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. we have the very latest on the shootle rampage that took place in a college town isla vista right near the university california santa barbara, we're now learning that at least three of those that were killed were, in fact, students at that college. there are three others who have yet to be identified. they were killed at the beginning. we were told that elliot rodger, the suspect named as the killer stabbed these three men repeatedly. we're not sure if they're not being identified because they can't make an identification or because they have not yet notified those closes to them. i want to go back to the panel and talk about a lot of the
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things the sheriff bill brown just discussed with us. and, lou, let's talk to you first about all of this. you know, when you think about the number of guns, that he was able to purchase three guns from three different locations and the fact he had a total, total of 41 magazines with ten bullets each, he had more than 400 bullets on him. what does that tell you? >> this man was intent on harming a large number of people without question. that would be the only reason why he would carry these highly sophisticated fire a.m.s with as many rounds of ammunition to make them operate. >> the first killings, which apparently took place at his apartment. we don't know who the men were and we didn't know their ages, thee were stabbings. they didn't say knives. this is what i found interesting. were stabbed repeatedly with shash objects. they didn't even use the word
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knife. what does that suggest to you, holly hughes? >> they haven't -- because the autopsies aren't complete they haven't been able to feed fie what the weapon was, but when you stab somebody, it is up close and personal. that is a rage. and when the sheriff was describing that scene, he said it is a horrific scene meaning there are multiple, multiple stand wounds, you've got the splap splater coming off of those objects whether it was ice picks, he broke a mirror and began to stab them with piece os testify mirror. i think what we're going to find out is this is probably just an absolute nightmare in side of that apartment and we know he did have roommates because one of the prior incidents with police was that he had report add roommate for stealing some candles. >> $22 worth. >> right. $22 worth. and he swore out the citizen's warrant. he did the citizen's arrest and pushed it forward such that the
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district attorney down there had to file charges because he had this man claiming to be a victim. >> and brian claypool, the first ins ter action that he had was back in july 2013. brian claypool, passengerly he made up charges that he was the one who has birthday an have tick oim an assault when deputies found out, in fact hrk e was the aggressor. what does that tell you about him? >> it tells me that he's delusional and jeff makes a good point too. the fact that anybody would file a report about stolen candles. i mean you have to connect the dots, deborah. it's all about the red flags. that's what i talked about earlier. the red flags have been very apparent here. i've dealt with law enforcement before with mental health suspects. you have to call in -- law enforcement has what they call a k.i. tmt team, critical intervention team, when you get a call on a welfare check you have to call in a many even tall
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health specialist. if you don't it's like saying somebody has a drinking problem krks you go interview them and ask them whether they have a drinking problem. what do you think they're going tell you? they're going tell you, i don't have a drinking problem, what are you talking about. >> go ahead, go ahead. >> you know, guys, can i just say one thing, deborah here, very quickly? >> okay, lou. go ahead. jump in. >> it was indicated in this press conference that multiple mental health professionals had some form of inthor action with this young man. >> yes, that's correct. >> it's difficult for me to understand that none of them were able to pick up on this abe ger issue among other things, and think all of us have been around people with anger issues. you almost can't mass it. and in response to remarks brian had made earlier about any of these textbook delusional, you know, characteristics, you know, the purpose of having a mental health professional evaluate you is to be able to get through the veneer, right, that you might
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put forth. everybody wants you to see what they want you to see, but mental health professionals are supposed to be able to detect beyond the veneer, and that's why i think this investigation is going to blossom like nobody's business. and we're going get into what really went wrong here and it has a lot more to do with perhaps the mental health professionals than it does anyone else. >> okay. will it me stop you right there. that's correct. but i have to -- i have to give credit to jeff gardere. he's the one who called it. he's the one who said that, in fact, this young man was smart enough -- in fact, he was 140 pages smart to create a story in which he could talk his way out of anything. not a psychosis, not rambling, not crazy, but definitely a purse alt disorder. jeff, when you think about this, you know, look. if he was seen by a variety of mental health profestivalals,
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which is what the sheriff said, at what point do you think -- look. they look at the whole picture, is somebody angry, delusional, suicidal, is somebody homicidal. could they have detected something and then alerted it, alerted somebody as we sort of saw right in the aurora case if i'm not mistaken. >> right, unless he said it was a direct threat where he was going to hurt someone or himself or there was an active psycho kiss, there's not much they can do. they are mandated if they think there's a danger to himself or other. i'll be doing some digging on mooits to let you know exactly who he was seeing as far as the discipline, but i suspect, as i said earth ler, that this was a progressive problem through the years and the parents could. handle it any longer and then it exploded into this violence within the past year. it just got out of their hands. >> yeah. it really seems that way. i mean when you think about the
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fact that he had three separate incidents starting back in july 2013 or the last one in which he said he was not going to be returning to school, again, a 22-year-old man going to a community college when he had a pretty grandiose sense of who he was. we're going to take a quick break. when we come back on the other side we're going brick back our entire panel and we'll bring back the head of the university. janet napolitano. stay with us. the other times i tried to quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it's a non-nicotine pill. chantix reduced my urge to smoke. that helped me quit smoking. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious
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we're joined now by janet napolitano. he cease president of university california system. she's the previous secretary of homland security from 2009 to 2013. first of all, thank you so much for joining us. our condolences to the entire uc community. one thing i want to ask, we know that at least three of the dead are students. how is the college going to deal with this given that they've got finals, they've got graduation. what's going to happen? >> well, chancellor henry yang is there with the community right now. obviously we're bringing in counselors and support, faculty and staff to work with our students at the university.
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but no doubt this is a terrible few days here for the university of california santa barbara and it's just a terrible thing that happened. >> you know, when you think about this, look, one of the areas that he targeted was a sorority. another was a stretch that's off campus, granted, but still frequented by a lot of students that go to your universities. is there -- thinking about it, do you tlink should have been or should you have certain security measures in these areas to at least keep an eye or do you think it was sufficient? >> let's not do the monday morning quarterbacking quite yet. isla vista, which is where these shootings occurred, is a community that's adjacent to the community, not part of the university's property per se, but clearly the perpetrate here was targeting the university and
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its students. we take that very, very seriously. >> okay. and you listened to the press conference. what jumped out at you? i mean clearly as you're experienced with homeland security, you had exposure to a lot of vary yaus tragedies, a lot of various attacks. dwlou process this one? >> well, this -- when i was secretary, we had the boston marathon, we had newtown, just to name a few. these rampages are becoming far too frequent in my opinion, and the loss of life is just adding up. these are young bright lives. our students are among the best in the country, and the loss of life is palpable. >> and we know that you are very involved obviously in terms of assuring the public during the sandy hook massacre and the
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boston marathon bombing. we saw you out there as well. do you think just in looking at all of this, when you have somebody who's young, somebody who's part of the campus or university system, was there enough coordination of intelligence of the police and the deputies with even local security on campus? look. arguably one could say this could have eastly have happened on campus. >> you know, perhaps. and, again, you know, that's difficult to say, but when you look at facts as relaid by the sheriff this evening -- and i thought he gave a very good, very detailed accounting of the sequence of events here. these are university campuses. they're not armed camps. these are open communities. yes, we have law enforcement. yes, we coordinate with the sheriff's department and we will continue to do so.
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but let's deal immediately now with the victims, the families, those who were injured and make sure they're getting best care possible. >> and that's clearly a significant concern right now. there were so many young people. clearly they will have known some of the victims. there will be funerals that are taking place. how do you normalize the campus so late really in the year when kids really are focused on exams and also graduating to go start their lives. how do you normalize the situation if you can? >> i don't know if normalize is the right word to use here. i think what you do is provide support, you provide assurance. our students are very intelligent, they're very resilient, and we'll provide them with whatever additional help they'll need. >> okay. and right now, i assume usually in a case like this, you've got mental health prophysicianals who come in. you're about got people -- is
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there going to be some extra security on campus just to create peace of mind more than anything? >> yes. all of those things, you're exactly right. all of those things are happening. you know, this is a ten-university system. so several of our schools are already through with finals and graduation and they are offering and we're mustering some of their personnel as well to go down to santa barbara. >> i completely agree with you. month morning quarterbacking doesn't do much good but would you consider putting extra security, for example, around sororities that are not on campus but are clearly part of the university culture? >> there is security there. i don't want to suggest that there is not. and obviously when we do the after incident review and looked at everything that happened, if there are things that can or should be done differently, of course, we would do that. but right now i don't know that
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to be the case, nor do i know of the relevant facts. again, my day has been taken up, quite frankly, in dealing with the students and with the university and our leadership so that we are offering that campus everything we can. >> and in terms of parents, just final word, how do you reassure parents? what do you tell them about their children right now? >> i would say just what i said. that first these are smart, very resilient students. to the extent they need additional help, support, and/or additional security for the time being, all of those things are being provided. santa barbara is a very safe campus as are all of our campuses. this, however, was a terrible tragedy, and i hope one not to be repeated. >> all right. secretary napolitano now
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president of the university of california system, we appreciate it. and once again, our deepest and most sincere condolences to the entire college system and all those affected by this. our hearts go out to you. thank you for speaking with us this evening. >> thank you very much. and coming up, video you're going to see only here on cnn. when elliot rodger, the gunman, opened fire, it was all caught on tape. that exclusive video from kyung lah coming up next. when i spenn the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning business even more rewarding.
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scenes, that's where law enforcement officers are putting together forensics, gathering evidence, that what happened on friday night at a college town. one of those locations, a convenience store. take a look. surveillance cameras capture the moments gunshots were fired into the buildings. cn th's kyung lah is there. she obtained the exclusive video only on cnn. kyung, we're watching part of it. we're not watching the worst part. walk us through it. >> it's simply too gruesome to look at at the owner of i.v. deli, who gave us the video, this is his surveillance video, and there are mumt. angles of it, you can see the moment when one of the victims, uc student christopher micha michael-martinez walks in and is shot. it's really frightening.
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what it givens you a sense of what is actually happens there, you can see the bullets hitting the -- one of the windows, one of the coolers that you open to get drinks. you can see it shattered. you can see people crouching in fear. you get a sense houf frightening it was and how many bullets were actually use. there were a number of bullets. when we walked through the store you can see bullets and shattered parts of the county as well. it's really extraordinary because it sort of gives you a picture of the violence that these people lived through. >> right. and interesting also, for our viewers, if you look at the top of the screen, it's the fourth panel that is shattered out that gets hit and then that girl -- i think it's girl in front there. it's interesting she reaches for her cellphone not even ducking behind what you would thing would be obvious cover. stands there in the middle and
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she pulls out her cell phone video. i'm so struck by what christoph christopher-martinez's father, the grief, the anger, his voice. he slammed politicians, slammed the nra. he said, their rights, their rights, what about christopher's right to live and we believe given that he was the one who had gone out to simply get something to eat he was the victim killed at this deli, correct? >> that is correct. you see it. i saw it and that's part of the reason why the owner of the surveillance video didn't want to release it because he heard the father. he knows what the father is going through and he doesn't want to add to the pain. so that is certainly something that people are thinking about, the young man who lost his life and everyone who was in that store was traumatized. you mention thad young woman. that young woman pulled out her cell phone to call 911.
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a lot of people in the store started running to the back exit. she stayed there. you can see her lift her arm to try to reach out to ask christopher how he's doing, is he okay. and she's -- there's no audio. we can't hear what she's saying, but she's very visibly trying to help him and on the video where you see him bleeding, everyone there is trying to help him as well. so it's a community that's trying to recover in a moment of trauma and still trying to recover right now, deb. >> and just so i'm clear on this, christopher -- was christopher at the door? the perspective that we're looking at, was she in front of the door there? would the counter have been to the left of the entrance? >> reporter: you're exactly right. the counter was to the left of the entrance. and the angle that we can't show you, it is pointing directly at the door. the door opens. you can see a number of people walk in. they start to react to the bullets flying.
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and then you can see him come in. he's the last one. he's struck twice and then he falls. but he had just come into the store and it appears that he was hit from the back. >> right. and that's exactly what his father said. he had just gone out because he was hungry. he was hungry. he wanted to get something to eat and now he is dead and it could have been anyone. it could have been anyone doing something as routine and regular as that. kyung lah, we know you're going to be getting other i have owes, angles. we want to be clearly sensitive of everyone watching. it is very grisly. it's tragic and sad. just sad. we'll check back in with you in just a little bit. right now way tonight bring back the panel. jeff gardere, holly hughes, lou palumbo, brian claypool. jeff, i keep coming back.
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there's so much i want to understand and everybody is trying to understand, especially how this played out. you had this young man where he began his rampage in his apartment with a stabbing, stabbing three people. he then got in his car and began shooting. and one thing that kyung lah did not mention he was actually out of his car when he opened fire into that deli. what does this tell you about the way he was acting, what he was doing. it sounds like he was having this game in his head. >> exactly. he seemed like he was invincible. indestructible. that's one of the things he said in his manifesto, that he was going to show everyone he was a god. he had ultimate power. i won't mention the specific video game. my children have played it. you can stab, you can punch, you can kick, you can kill, drive character run over people, get into gunfights with cops. and this young man was very much into the videos and i wonder how that entered his subconscious
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and dictated a lot of what happened in this particular night especially since he had such a warped mind. >> do you think -- and for example, i don't want to blame video games either. >> of course not. >> we know there are suggestions that it trishts to a violent behavior, but could this 22-year-old, no friends, frustrated with women, confused about possibly even his own sexuality because he wants women, he just hates them to death and wants to put them in concentration camps and possibly starve them to death. was this game -- with somebody with such a personality disorder was he playing this out in his -- has he just left reality? how do you describe it? >> well, this is an individual -- look. we all know a lot of kids play video games. they don't do things like this like this young man did. however, it's the deadly mix. you get someone with a severe personality disorder, severe mental illness, and now this
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becomes their reality, their virtual reality. and then they can't separate that virtual reality from our reality and it becomes what they do in order to access the world in the most destructive way. i'm sure that was part of the fuel to his fire and was perhaps responsible for some of the ideas he had as to how he was going to commit this pure mayhem, deadly mayhem. >> absolutely. this rampage. lou palumbo, he bought three different firearms, brought them at three different gun stores, all of them federally licensed, which means that there would have been a background check. according to the sheriff, he bought them about a year ago before the first interaction he had with sheriff's deputies. i don't -- what do you make of that -- of that? most people don't all of a sudden get this fixation and say, i think i'm going to go to three different places and buy
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three different guns and i'll have them checked, you know, by federal background checks. what do you make of that? >> i think that the fact that he made a decision to go out and acquire firearms is an indication that his condition, his hatred, his anger was consistently growing. but you know, deborah, this case isn't an anomaly. and that's the most tragic part. >> that it is not one is what you're saying. >> exactly. >> yeah. >> there's something that's happened to the psyche of young americans. there's a much, much bigger request he question here and we're focusing on one individual. i think we have to focus in on and understand something. this isn't an isolated incident. something has happened to that generation of children. he's in the same demographic. we can talk about his set of circumstances, gun control, we can address any number of topics and we need to look at the big
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picture and figure out what's going on with our children. any way you cut it, at 22 years old, he's a kid, a young kid. >> snow questino question. i have to cut you off for a second and clarify. there are some kids who were responsible who wanted to hip. we're going to have a lot more stay with us. unlimited cash back. let that phrase sit with you for a second. unlimited. as in, no limits on your hard-earned cash back. as in no more dealing with those rotating categories. the quicksilver card from capital one. unlimited 1.5% cash back on everything you purchase, every day. don't settle for anything less.
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i'll keep asking. what's in your wallet?
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there was a press conference
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with the sheriff on this deadly rampage that happened friday night by a single man in california. the name that has been released. elliot allen rodger. he killed six people stabbing at least three and shooting three others as he went through a violent car chase through this community town shooting at people. they had interacts with him on at least three occasion. deputies fielding complaints from him or finally called to his residence by his family to perform a welfare check and guess what, he talked his way out of it. told the deputies that he was fine and going to leave his community college and not return but he was having social
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problems and that's why he wasn't coming back. when elliot rodger's body was found 400 rounds of ammunition loaded into 40 clips. i want to clarify. there were more than 40 magazines and he fired many of the bullets. three handguns, two sig sauers, one 9 millimeter glocks. they were all bought legally at federally licensed and registered dealers and they were registered in his name, elliot rodgers. the sheriff said he was dead on the scene. were the deputies the ones that
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fired the fatal shots? >> the sheriff said that it is believed he took his own life. he mentioned that the deputies were able to shoot into the car and hit him in the hip but they believe that he, rodger shot himself in the head. that is the preliminary investigation and that's what they believe happened. he was clearly dead at the time. you mentioned how long this went on. when you listen to the investigators and to the sheriff as to how this went down and all the places he went. we know now that 13 people were injured, most of them shot. eight of them shot. other people were hit by his car. he was on -- clearly on a rampage trying to kill. every time he came in contact with deputies and they got close he shot towards them. deputies shot back. they ended up hitting him in the hip but ultimately the sheriff
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says they believe he did take his own life. >> that's an excellent point that you raise and that is he was shooting back. clearly he was engaged. this goes into the theory that he felt he was god and exacting revenge on all these people who had done his wrong. but the shot that was fired and hit him in the hip, the deputies, they were on foot. the ones firing on him weren't in cruise cars but on foot, correct? >> yeah, first they were in cruise cars. some were on foot when they finally got close to him. i want to mention something else we found interesting. there were three other contacts with authorities, with roger. the first one he said he was attacked. and investigators said it seemed he was the aggressor and no charges were filed there. the second one he made a
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citizen's arrest of a roommate for $22 worth of candles. that person was booked into the jail, according to the sheriff. and lastly there was a call from his family members to the sheriff who said, look -- or to the authorities -- and they said can you go check on him? they checked on him and he was able to talk through it and say everything's fine. i'm okay. those were the three contacts between him and law enforcement authorities. all three times he got out of it. there were no other charges filed. this time he ended up dead and ended up killing, according to investigators, seven people. >> and also, sarah just quickly, the first location is his own apartment, three men stabbed to death. do we know the whereabouts of this roommate that apparently he brought the charges against in
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january? >> what we do know from the sheriff himself, he said those three roommates were killed inside rodger's apartment. that is why we were all wondering why we weren't hearing about this crime scene, it appears that everyone was dead inside the apartment except for him and that's why we didn't hear about that initially. a gruesome scene inside that apartment and then you have all the other cases throughout the ordeal. ten different places where something unfolded and then we know we saw a witness who talked about three girls outside of the sorority and he was right, the gentleman we spoke with earlier, the student who saw those three girls, two of them one dead and one diagnose. two people did die. two of the girls died. one of them has survived, according to the sheriff's department. >> we can see the wide shot
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outside of the voesorority. >> you have video of one of the locations where this gunman actually got out of his car and opened fire. describe the video for us. >> this is the third location. you have already heard sarah talk about the apartment. that's where it began the stabbing of the three victims. then the sorority and the shooting of the two victims there and one injured. this is the third location at the ivy deli. the gunman got out of his vehicle. on the tape we don't see the gunman. what we do see are the bullets flying into the store. in video that is too gruesome to show you you can see one of the victims actually get shot. at least twice, it appears, somewhere on his torso in the
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back and you see him go down. the deli did show us that but they did not want it to get out because of the anguish that his family is going through. but what we can see in that video is you see people are crouching. the bullets are hitting the cases and they shatter some of the glass. when we walked around the deli you can see bullet holes in the counters. there was an extraordinary amount of gunfire and he was aiming for people. >> and we saw an image of a young man. and i want to clarify that is christopher martinez. a picture provided by the family. and you pointed out something so dramatic and that is this young girl inside that store, she is actually -- she is so brave. she is reaching for him. after he gets shot.
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describe what you know. >> you never know how you're going to react to something unfolding until you're in it. and this woman is really the picture of someone who is really putting her life on the line to try to help someone's who's probably very close to her age. she is reaching out and dialing 911. there are bullets flying over her head. she is staying put trying to call the authorities and in the an well cannot show where you see martinez lying on the ground there are his friends who are around him trying to resuscitate him. they won't leave his side. it's in that tiny my r tiny mic that deli the signs of humanity. >> and signs of humanity that
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the gunman said didn't exist. we will have final thought on a tragic day. my panel will be back with me. there have been so many of these shootings, warning signs that we should be looking for shooters. lou, is there anything we can learn from investigations like these? >> you know, the investigations are just the follow up to this -- to these carnages. really what we have to start to do is try to understand why exactly is going on in our society. you know, what is going to fix or what is going to change in our culture to stop these episodes. the more you do investigations the better your skills are. you learn things from them from an investigation standpoint but we are looking for a remedy. as there is no single cause yality there is not a single answer. >> lou, thank you.
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holly hughs. the murder rate has been cut in half but no declines in mass shootings. what are your thoughts? >> you know, i'm with lou. you keep saying and echoed it many times throughout the night i don't want to blame anybody. but we need to do something, debra. we need to blame something and something is a breakdown? our system. it's about time we point fingers and not at individual people but what is the problem in our system. where is the break down? this young man had never been hospitalized. he didn't pop when they ran a federal criminal background for him to get a gun. what we feed to do is say all right we know we can't get multiple -- we know there is a farm co-logical database.
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if you start trying to get drugs from multiple places, they know about it. the databases are already there. let's use them to prevent guns in the hands of the mentally ill. >> this is a kid -- not a kid. he's 22 years old, he's a man. whining, complaining, personality disorder or not, how do you treat someone like this? >> it is very difficult. it does take a full system to do that. i just have to tell you when they did that welfare check on this young man if they had the information from the first two contacts, that third check, that third contact would have had much more significance. so what we're saying is we have to change the whole system. >> thank you so much to my panel. our condolences to the entire community there in isla vista to all the students. we wish them all the best. we'll have the latest developments starting at 6:00
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eastern tomorrow morning. do not miss "new day." we want to thank all our viewers in the united states and arnoou the world. get updates on cnn.com. now, cnn film "blackfish." -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com >> orange county fire rescue. 6600 sea harbor drive. sea world stadium. >> okay. >> she has a trainer in the water with one of our whales. the whale they're not supposed to be in the water with.
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>> okay. we'll get someone in route. >> gate number three to shamu stadium. >> gate three. >> orange county sheriff's office. >> we need someone to respond for a dead person at sea world. a whale has eaten one of the trainers. >> a whale ate one of the trainers? >> that's correct. ♪ do you believe? >> my parents first brought me to a seaworld park when i was
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very young. from that point forward, i was hooked. it meant everything to me because, you know, i never wanted anything more. >> i remember, you know, being probably in first or second grade watching national geographic specials or specials and seeing whales and dolphins and as a little kid, just being really incredibly inspired to it. i never went to seaworld. i grew up in new york so i went to the bronx zoo. >> grew up on a lake with horses. we'd swim the horses. >> i grew up around the ocean. >> i came from the middle of the country in flat land kansas. >> from virginia traveled down, did the theme park thing in orlando when i was 17. and saw the night show at shamu stadium. very emotional, you know, popular music. and i was driven to want to do that. >> and i saw what the trainers did. and i said, that's what i want to do. >> one of the trainers there, he goes, what are you doing out there?
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you should be a trainer. i said, i don't know how to train animals. i've never trained animals in my life. >> how do you prepare yourself for an encounter with an 8,000 pound orca? >> i thought you needed a masters degree in marine biology to be a trainer. >> it takes years of study and experience to meet the strict requirements necessary to interact in the water with shamu. >> come to find out, it really is more about your personality and how good you can swim. >> i went and tried out and got the job right away. i was, like, yeah. i was so excited. so, so excited. >> i really wanted to be there. i really wanted to do the job. i couldn't wait to get in the water with the animals. i really was proud of being a sea world trainer. i thought this was the most amazing job. >> i showed up there on my first day not really knowing what to expect. i was told to put on a wet suit and get in the water. >> hi, mom.
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>> i was scared out of my wits. >> first of all, i put my wet suit on backwards because i was raised on a farm in virginia. my first thought and memory of that time was that dolphins are a lot bigger than they look when you get in the water next to them. >> well, i watched this sea lion and otter show and this guy mike moracco, he comes out during the show with a dress on as dorky in a dress with the sea lion, the coward sea lion and walking along with a basket. i thought i will never ever do that, you know. two months later, hi, i'm dorky. walking out on stage with the sea lion. >> i was overwhelmed and i was so excited. i mean, just seeing a killer whale is breathtaking. >> i was just in awe. it's shocking to see how large they are and how beautiful they
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are. >> being, you know, in the presence of the killer whales was just inspiring and amazing and i remember seeing them for the first time, not just being able to believe how huge they were. you're there because you want to train killer whales and that's your goal. i didn't know it was going to happen, so i wasn't expecting it and one day they say okay, sam, you're ready to go. you're going to stand on the whale, you're going to dive off the whale. the whale will swim under you and pick you up again and you'll do a perimeter ride around the pool. they just told me to go do it and i did it. wow, i did -- i just rode a killer whale.
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>> when you look into their eyes, you know somebody is home. somebody is looking back. you form a very personal relationship with your animal. >> there is something absolutely amazing about working with an animal. you are a team. and you build a relationship together, and you both understand the goal, and you help each other. >> i've been with this whale since i was 18 years old. i've seen her have all four babies. we've grown up together. >> that's the joy i got out of it is a relationship like i never had. >> i have to know, are you nervous? >> i'm scared. >> no. >> nice hair, jeff. [ laughter ]
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>> jeff ventre will go over there. >> that's dawn. >> wow. >> i'm going to be a supervisor one day. >> i knew dawn when she was new. she was a great person to work with, and she obviously blossomed into one of seaworld's best trainers. >> this is dawn brancheau, the senior trainer here. >> i guess you can say i knew dawn in a past life. >> it a tough job, isn't it? >> we do go through a lot of physical exertion. you do a lot of deep water work, breath holds, high-energy behaviors with the animals. they are giving out energy, too, but we're working together and having fun. >> she's beautiful, blonde, athletic, friendly, everybody loves dawn. >> i mean this so sincerely, watching you perform yesterday, you are amazing. >> thank you. >> you really are. >> she captured what it means to be a seaworld trainer. she had so much experience that
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it made me realize what happened to her really could have happened to anyone. >> this is detective rivera with the orange county sheriff's office. today's date is february 24th, 2010. the time is 4:16. in the room with me is thomas george tobin, is that correct? >> correct. >> did you see any blood in the water or anything like that? >> well, that's part of it. she was scalped, and there was no blood. >> okay. >> so pretty much we knew then the heart wasn't beating. >> once they were able to pull her away, how did he let go? >> he didn't. >> he never let go of the -- >> of the arm. >> he swallowed it. >> he swallowed it. so the arm is nowhere -- >> right. >> osha on behalf of the federal government is basically suggesting that swimming with orcas is inherently dangerous and that you can't completely
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predict the outcome when you enter the water or their environment. >> the crux of the case, stay out of the proximity of the animals and you won't get killed. >> it will have a ripple effect through the whole industry. this was national headline news. >> seaworld whale performances may never be the same. >> right now the theme park is arguing in court to keep the whale trainers in the water. something osha says is extremely dangerous. >> these are wild animals and they are unpredictable because we don't speak whale. we don't speak whale. we don't speak tiger. we don't speak monkey. >> tempers flared between two sides today when osha's attorneys suggested seaworld only made changes after dawn brancheau's death outraged the public. >> osha doesn't want the trainers going back in the water without a physical barrier between them and the whales. >> being in close proximity with these top predators is too dangerous. >> they won't be getting in the water and riding on whales, things like that?
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>> if you were in a bathtub for 25 years, don't you think you would get a little irritated, aggravated, maybe a little psychotic? >> the situation with dawn brancheau didn't just happen. it's not a singular event. you have to go back over 20 years to understand this. >> it was a really exciting thing to do until everybody wanted to do it. >> what were they telling you you were going to do? >> capture orcas. >> they had aircraft, spotters, speedboats, they had bombs they were throwing in the water. they were lighting their bombs with torches in their boats and were throwing them as fast as they could to herd the whales into coves. but the orcas had been caught
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before, and they knew what was going on, and they knew their young ones would be taken from them so the adults without young went east into a cul-de-sac and the boats followed them thinking they were all going that way while the mothers with babies went north. but the capture teams had aircraft, and they have to come up for air eventually. and when they did, the capture teams alerted the boats and said oh, no, they're going north. the ones with the babies. so the speedboats caught them there and herded them in. and then they had fishing boats with seine nets that would stretch across so none could leave and then they could just pick out the young ones. >> we were only after the little ones, and the little ones, you know, big animal still, but i
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was told because of shipping costs, that's why they only take the little ones. >> they had the young ones that they wanted in the corrals, so they dropped the seine nets and all the others could have left, but they stayed. >> we're there trying to get the young orca into the stretcher, and the whole fandamily is out here 25 yards away maybe in a big line and they're communicating back and forth. well, you understand then what you're doing, you know. i lost it. i mean, i just started crying. i didn't stop working, but i, you know, just couldn't handle it.
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just like kidnapping a little kid away from a mother. everybody is watching, what can you do? but the worst thing i could think of, you know, i can't think of any worse than that. now, this really sounds bad, but when the whole hunt was over, there were three dead whales in the net, and so they had peter and brian and i cut the whales open, fill them with rocks and put anchors on the tail and sink them. well, really, i didn't even think about it being illegal at that point. i thought it was a p.r. thing. >> they were finally ejected from the state of washington by
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a court order in 1976. it was seaworld by name that was told do not come back to washington to capture whales. without missing a beat, they went from washington to iceland and began capturing there. >> i've been part of a revolution and two change of presidents in central and south america and seen some things that it's hard to believe, but this is the worst thing that i've ever done is hunt that whale. ♪
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sealand has been a part of victoria for over 20 years. we specialize in the care and display of killer whales. >> by the time i started when he was four, he was up to 16 feet long and weighed 4,000 pounds. i had actually seen tilikum quite a number of times. he was right across the street here in victoria. all sealand was was a net
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hanging in a marina with a float around it. >> tilikum was the one we really loved to work with. he was very well behaved and he was always eager to please. >> when he was first introduced, everything went fine and dandy but the previous head trainer used techniques that involved punishment. he would team a trained orca up with tilikum who was untrained and send them to do the same behavior. if tilikum didn't do it, both animals were punished. deprived of food. this caused a lot of frustration with the larger animal, established animal and would in turn get frustrated with tilikum and rake him with his teeth. >> there would be times during certain seasons that tilikum would be covered head to toe with rakes. rakes are teeth on teeth and raking the skin and from head to the you could see blood and scratches and he would be raked up. >> both females would gang up on him.
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tilikum was the one we trusted. we never were concerned about tilikum. the issue really was we stored these whales at night in what we called a module. which was 20 feet across and probably 30 feet deep. as a safety precaution because we were worried about people cutting the net and letting them go and the lights were all turned out. so there is no stimulation, just in a dark metal 20 foot by 30 foot pool for 2/3 of their life. >> when we first started, they were quite small and quite young, so they fit in there quite nicely, but they were immobile for the most part. >> it didn't feel good. it just didn't. and it -- it was just wrong. >> we started having difficulty getting them all into this one small steel box, to be honest. that's what it was. it was a floating steel box. >> that's where food deprivation would come in. we would hold back food and they
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would know if they went in the module they would get their food. so if they were hungry enough they went in there. >> during the winter, that would be 5:00 at night until 7:00 in the morning. >> when you let them out, you'd see new tooth rakes and sometimes blood. >> closing that door on him and knowing that he's locked in there for the whole night is like -- it's a stab. it's whoa. >> if that is true, it's not only inhumane, and i'll tell them so, but it probably led to what i think is a psychosis that he was on a hair trigger. he would kill. >> an employee is dead after an encounter. >> at a canadian park called sealand of the pacific. >> the victim keltie byrne was a championship swimmer and a part-time worker at sealand. >> as seen in this home video,
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rescuers used a huge net -- >> efforts were hindered by the agitated whales. >> i would like to use this summer but my more immediate goal is to swim fast at nationals. >> it was sort of a cloudy gray day, and we were looking for something to do, so we thought why not go to sealand? it was kind of like this dingy pool with these whales. >> it just felt a little bit like an amusement park that was kind of on its last legs and everything was a bit gray. >> yeah, it was like a swimming pool. >> yeah. >> three whales in a swimming pool. >> yeah. and they would come up and touch the ball, and there was -- i think there was some tail splashing and there was some -- >> jumping. >> -- with the fish. >> they hold the fish and the whales jump up. i remember saying, oh, what a fun job, you know. she's so lucky.
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and then i saw her walking with her rubber boots and she tripped and her foot just dipped into the edge of the pool, and she lost her balance and fell in, and she was pushing her way up to get out of the pool, and the whale zoomed over, grabbed her boot and pulled her back in. at first, i didn't think it was that serious because you see -- you see the trainer in the pool with the whale and you think, oh, well, you know, the whales are used to that, you know, then all of a sudden it started getting -- there was more swimming, more activity, more thrashing, and she was starting to get panicked and then as it progressed, you started to realize well, something is not right here. >> she started to scream. and she started looking around and her eyes were like bigger and bigger and realizing that i really am in trouble here. >> and then they would pull her under, and then they would come up and when she -- when they came up she would be, help me, help me, and then they would take her down again.
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>> and she would be submerged for several seconds up to, i don't know, maybe a minute. you don't -- you're not keeping track. >> so, you know, it was harder and harder for her to, you know, to, you know, get the air in because she was screaming. and my sister remembers her saying, i don't want to die. condolences to keltie's family. >> yeah. that we couldn't help her. it was pretty wretched. >> sealand closed. it's probably a good thing. i mean, it was a little pond, and i think the owner, you know, made the right decision for whatever reasons. i don't believe he's a bad guy, a bad man. i think he was shocked by the whole affair too. >> the blush was gone from the business, and he decided that
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that was it. we should shut down. >> no one ever contacted us. there was an inquest. no one ever asked us to say what happened. you know, we just left. >> there was no big lawsuits afterwards, and there is no memorial and, you know, the only thing remaining of keltie byrne is, you know, what's left in the folks' minds who recall the case. >> so in the newspaper articles, the cause of death is that she drowned accidently, but, you know, she was pulled under by the whale. >> well, there is a bit of smoke and mirrors going on. i mean, one of the fundamental facts is that none of the witnesses were clear about which whale pulled keltie in. >> it was the large whale tilikum, the male is the one that went after her. and the other two just kind of circled around, but he was definitely the instigator. and we knew it was that whale because he had the flopped over fin. like, it was very easy to tell.
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>> sealand of the pacific closed its doors and was looking, i guess, to make a buck on the way out and these whales are worth millions of dollars. >> when seaworld heard that tilikum was available after this accident at sealand of the pacific, they really wanted tilikum because they needed a breeder. so i don't even think that anybody even was questioning like is this a good idea? >> my understanding of the situation was that tilikum and the others would not be used in shows. they would not be performance animals. our understanding of their behavior was it was such a highly stimulating event for them, they were likely to repeat it. >> sealand was -- we were all young and a bit of sea cowboys, and we weren't so technical and scientific as seaworld. we had this vision they knew more than us and they were better than us and tilikum would have a better pool and better life and he'd have better care and he'd have better food and be a great life for him. so it was like okay, tilly, you're going to disneyland. lucky you.
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all in one place expedia, find yours orcas' intelligence may be
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superior to man's. as parents they are exemplary, better than many human beings. and like human being, they have a profound instinct for vengeance. presenting "orca." >> if you go back only 35 years, we knew nothing, in fact less than nothing. what the public had was superstition and fear. >> a fight to the death. between the two most dangerous animals on earth. >> what in hell are you! >> these were the vicious killer whales that, you know, had 48 sharp teeth that would rip you to shreds if they got a chance. >> what we learned is that they are amazingly friendly, and understanding and intuitively want to be your companion. >> are you recording this? [ laughter ]
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>> and to this day there is no record of an orca doing any harm to any human in the wild. ♪ >> they live in these big families, and they have life spans very similar to human life spans. the females can live to about 100, maybe more. males to about 50 or 60, but the adult offspring never leave their mother's side. each community has a completely different set of behaviors. each has a complete repertoire of vocalizations with no overlap. you can call them languages, the scientific community is reluctant to say any other animal other than humans uses
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languages, but there's every indication that they use languages. >> the orca brain just screams out intelligence, awareness. we took this tremendous brain and put it in a magnetic resonance imaging scanner. what we found was just astounding. they've got a part of the brain that humans don't have. a part of their brain has extended out right adjacent to their limbic system. the system processes emotions. the safest inference would be these are animals that have highly elaborated emotional lives. it's becoming clear that dolphins and whales have a sense of self, a sense of social bonding that they've taken to another level, much stronger and much more complex than in other mammals including humans. we look at mass strandings, the fact that they stand by each other.
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everything about them is social, everything. it's been suggested that their whole sense of self is distributed among the individuals in their group. >> five of them. these orca are going to attack this sea lion. they have been breaking the ice off and swimming around him. oh, here they come two of them look. underneath there. you can see them underneath. they made a big wave. look at that. big wave. oh, yeah. >> oh, god, no, no, no. >> if you can't watch the bullfight, you better leave. here they go, look at this. three of them. >> oh, god, oh, no, oh, god. >> it's all over. >> no, not yet. >> yeah, it's all over. it's all over. ♪
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>> the first nation's people and the fishermen on the coast, they call them blackfish. they're an animal that possesses great spiritual power, and they're not to be mettled with. i've spent a lot of time around killer whales, and they are always in charge. i never get out of the boat. i never mess with them. the speed and the power is quite amazing. rules are the same as the pool hall. keep one foot on the floor at all times. even after seeing them thousands
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of times, you see them and you still, you know, wake up.
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honestly, the off-season isn't i've got a lot to do. that's why i got my surface. it's great for watching game film and drawing up plays. it's got onenote, so i can stay on top of my to-do list, which has been absolutely absurd since the big game. with skype, it's just really easy to stay in touch with the kids i work with. alright, russell you are good to go! alright, fellas. alright, russ. back to work!
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he arrived, i think, in 1992. i was at whale and dolphin stadium when he arrived. he's twice as large as the next animal in the facility. >> right at about 12,000 pounds. that's -- that's incredible. he looks fantastic. >> when tilikum arrived at seaworld, he was attacked viciously, repeatedly by katina and the others. in the wild, it's a very matriarchal society. male whales are kept at the perimeter. in captivity, animals are squeezed into very close proximity. tilikum, the poor guy is so large, he couldn't get away because he just is not as mobile relative to the smaller and more agile females. and where was he going to run? there's no place to run. >> i think he spent a lot of time in isolation. seaworld claims he's always with the females, but from what i saw he was mostly put with the females for breeding purposes and he didn't spend a lot of
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time with the other whales. >> it's for his own protection, you know, he gets beat up, and so by segregating him, it provides a physical barrier so the females can't kick his butt. >> tilikum is pretty much kept in the back, and then brought out at the very end as like the big splash. he was always happy to see you in the morning. >> hi. >> there we go. >> good boy. >> look at his choppers. >> maybe because he was alone. maybe because he was hungry. maybe because he liked you. who knows what was going on in his head. >> want to whistle? [ whistling ] >> yes? >> that was really loud. >> come on. >> he seemed to like to work. he seemed to be interested. he seemed to want to learn new things.
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he seemed to be enjoying, you know, working with the trainers. >> he, for me, was a joy. he really responded to me, and i, you know, every day i went to work, i was happy to see tili. >> that's cute. [ laughter ] >> you're being too cute. >> i never got the impression of him, while i was there, that, you know, oh my god, he's the scary whale. not at all. >> maybe some of its just our naivety or whatever. you know, because we weren't given the full details of keltie's situation. >> turn around. smile, buddy. >> i was under the impression that tilikum had nothing to do with her death. specifically, that it was the female whales responsible for her death. what i found really odd at first was the way they were acting around this whale and what they told us seemed to be two different things. the first day he arrived, i
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remember one of the senior trainers at seaworld, tilikum was in a pool and she was walking over a gate and she had her wet suit unzipped tied around her waist and making cooing noises and going hey, tilikum. what a cute whale and play talking at him and one of the supervisors said, get her out of there, and just screamed at her, like get her away from there. like they were so worried something would happen and i remember thinking, why are you guys making such a big deal out of this when he didn't actually kill her? well, clearly management thought there was some reason to exercise caution around him. clearly, they knew more than they were telling us. >> ladies and gentlemen, the next two behaviors you're going to be seeing, you can only see right here at seaworld. >> jeff was out in the audience filming one of the shamu shows. it was a perfect show. all the hot dog sequences, water works sequences went off great. >> i was really excited just to be capturing this because it was
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kind of turning out to be a great show. a show that's kind of complete, it doesn't -- it probably only only happens a few times a week. >> at the very end of the show, liz was working tilikum and apparently tilikum lunged out of the water at her. >> and i had captured tilikum coming out of the water kind of turning sideways and appeared to me to try to grab liz, and at that moment, the tape became unusable. i was just kind of basically instructed to get rid of the tape. wanting to kind of preserve the tape, i actually used the editing equipment and snipped out that little half second or second when he did that and stitched it back together so it just kind of looked like a glitch in the tape. and i'm like look at this, and it's like, no, this is no longer usable. so we had to destroy the tape. ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ it's pretty outrageous there was no expecting tilikum to come out of the water.
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because they had witnessed him coming out of the water and it's written into his profile. he lunges at trainers. >> when we visit seaworld we tend to take for granted that shamu has been provided with a safe and comfortable habitat. >> this is killer whales' natural behavior. >> i spewed out the party line during shows. i'm totally mortified now. there is like, something like, look at namu. namu's not doing that because she has to. namu is doing this because she really wants to. oh, my gosh. some of the things i'm embarrassed by, so embarrassed by. at the time i think i could have convinced myself that the relationships that we had were built on something stronger than the fact that i'm giving them fish. you know, i like to think that.
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but i don't know that that's the truth. i had been there awhile and i had seen a few other things along the way that made me question why i was there and what we were doing with these animals. >> on november 4th, 1988, a killer whale at seaworld gave the performance of a lifetime. don't miss this small miracle. come see our new baby shamu. >> i know it was naive of me, but i thought that it was our responsibility to do as much as we could to keep their family units together since we knew that in the wild that's what happens. ♪ yes, sir, that's our baby >> kalina was the first baby shamu. >> baby shamu, sea world's
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newest star. >> she had become quite disruptive and challenging her mom a little bit and disrupting some shows, and that kind of thing. ♪ she's got the whole place jumping ♪ ♪ shamu, she's that baby whale >> it was decided by the higher ups she would be moved to another park when she was just four, four and a half years old. and that was news to us as trainers that were working with her. to me it had never crossed my mind that they might be moving the baby from her mom. the supervisors basically was kind of mocking me like, oh you're saying poor kalina? you know, what she's going to do without her mommy? and that of course shut me up. so the night of the move we had to deploy the nets to separate them and get kalina into the med pool and katina was generally a quiet whale. she was not an overly vocal whale.
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after kalina was removed from the scene and put on the truck and taken to the airport and her mom katina was left in the pool, she stayed in the corner of the pool, like, literally just shaking and screaming, screeching crying like i'd never seen her do anything like that. and the other females in the pool maybe once or twice during the night they would come out and check on her and she would screech and cry and they would just run back. there was nothing that you could call that watching it, besides grief. >> those are not your whales. you know, you love them, and you think i'm the one that touches them, feeds them, keeps them alive, gives them the care that they need. they are not your whales. they own them. kasatka and takara were very close.
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kasatka was the mother, takara was the calf. takara was special to me. they were inseparable. when they separated them, it was to take takara to florida. once takara had already been stretchered out of the pool, put on the truck, driven to the airport, kasatka continued to make vocals that had never been heard before. they brought in the senior research scientist to analyze the vocals. they were long-range vocals. she was trying something that no one had even heard before looking for takara. that's heart breaking. how can anyone look at that and think that that is morally acceptable? it's not. it is not okay. when it comes to good nutrition...i'm no expert.
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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com standby, dean. >> let's go live to seaworld where dean gomersoll is joining us for a sneak peek. hi, dean. tell us about the new show. >> good afternoon, richard. the new show is whale and dolphin discovery. what it does is it shows the relationship we have between all our animals here -- >> there's so many things that were told to us. they tell you so many times that you start believing it, you know. >> all the animals here get
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along very well. it's just like training your dog really. >> i was blind really. i was a kid. i didn't know what i was doing really. >> nice. good job. ♪ >> ladies and gentlemen, this a david from maryland. go ahead and wave at everyone, david. >> i just really bought into what they told us. you know, i learned to say what they told us to the audience. >> hello out there. children are some of shamu's biggest fans. we can do just about anything we want. i thought i knew everything about killer whales when i worked there and everything about these animals. i really know nothing about killer whales. i know a lot about being a animal trainer or a killer whale trainer, but i don't know anything about these animals' natural history or their behavior. i really in some ways believed a lot of what i was learning from them because why would they lie? >> because the whales in their pools die young, they like to
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say that all orcas die at 25 or 30 years. >> 25 to 35 years. >> 25 to 35 years. >> they're documented in the wild living to be about 35, mid-30s. they tend to live longer in this environment because they have all the veterinary care. >> and of course that's false. we knew by 1980 after half a dozen years of research that they live equivalent to human life spans. and every other potentially embarrassing fact is twisted and turned and denied one way or another. >> so in the wild they live less. >> like the floppy dorsal fins. >> 25% of whales have a fin that turns over like that as they get older. >> dorsal collapse happens in less than 1% of wild killer whales. we know this. all the captive males, 100% have collapsed dorsal fins, and they say that they're a family. that the whales are in their family. they have their pods, but that's

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