>> end of the road. ♪ this is cnn tonight. the hollywood to blame. is elliott rodgers related to what we see at the movies. to want, we're going to debate with people on both sides of the question, including a movie icon. plus, is merng still the most powerful nation on earth. does it eep matter? but i want to gip tonight with a heated argument that is sweeping the country. does hollywood have a role in promoting what drove elliot rodger to a murderous rampage.

>> in the bloody aftermath, washington post film critic sees the video diatribe against society. >> all your popular kids. you never accepted me. >> and his life as a director's son. in it she writes, rodgers rampage may be a function of his own profound success, but how it can be toxic for men and women alive. >> he had created this video on youtube that seemed to be such a product of the entertainment industry he did grow up in. >> but her come lump points to seth ro kbrks an's recent film.

>> unjustly shut out of college life that should be full of quote sex and fun and pleasure. >> are you talking to me? >> they inspire a celebrity backlash on twitter. how dare you imply that we gets girls in movies caused a lunatic to go on a rampage. they added shlgs she uses tragedy to promote hers. she said she didn't mean to single him out. >> the movies we watch that are primarily created by men, wishful filament, thousand that might incorm someone stuffering. >> a culture still struggling to understand what could drive a young man to murder.

cnn new york. >> thank you very much. that was a nice story there. joining me now, the star of the iconic 1980s comedy "three men and a baby." and talk radio host, and also the former jeopardy champ. he wrote about it. and nina who writes for the rolling stone. thank you everyone for joining us. steve, hollywood has taken quite a rap since this latest shooting. some of the titles that have been named, knocked up, super bad, 16 candles, superman 2. on and on and on. is hollywood really part of the problem? >> my heart goes out to the families of the victims.

it's just a terrible tragedy. the truth is that nobody makes somebody do this by watching a piece of art, whether it's going to a museum or watching a movie, this is a person who had a deranged mind and we're going to have to figure out why he and other people think like that. >> his father was the assistant director on the hunger games because, you know, his youtube video was shot in such a sinmatic way, was blaming hood just. >> sometimes even in the media is looking for a hook and this seems like a reliable hook. but films are inspiration l. for the most part, people go to movies and feel great about them. there's movies like 12 years a slave, those are move movies

that make people think and become better people. this tragedy has nothing to do with hollywood. it's a shame it's come to that. i wanted to put myself here to talk about the industry i love and how i love movies. as most people do because it mablgs them feel go. >> michael, to you, i wanted to talk about what started all this. here's what she wrote. she said movies may not reflect reality, but they condition what we desire, expect and feel we deserve from it. the myths that movies have been selling become more palatable when they become their own star. do we watch the same story lines over and over again to a point where we believe them to be true? >> of course movies influence reality.

i quota book about that 20 years akboe. they're attacking the wrong movies. i wonder if anybody's really seen neighbors. the seth rogan character in neighbors is very happily married. what's so striking about eljot rodger and his demented testament is that he isn't interested in relationship. he's interested in sex. he keeps talking about that. this is a fact of life. most women are not interested in nerdy guys who don't want a relationship. yes, the movies are about nerdy guys that end up in loving relationships. >> that's enough of us guys talking. let's get a woman's point of view now. was it fair to focus on seth row began. i feel like seth row began

focused on seth ro kbrks an. neighbors had happened to be the most recent movie to come out, but i tend to agree with michael in i'm not sure how many people saw. i saw the ads for it. i don't think it's films like neighbors that are the culprit. >> specifically, though, why wouldn't he respond? >> the focus on neighbors, it has the demon ik hollywood film to blame is a red herring here. you have to look at who is making films, whose voices are usually heard and who is portrayed and how. the other thing she mentioned was the test that looks at other -- you know, is there other woman in the field. do they talk to each other, do they talk to something other than a man. and a lot of films actually fail this test which is indicative of male-centered stories.

>> let me just jump in here and then you can michael. ? normal life, i hear women talking about a lot of things. most the time, they're talking about men. why wouldn't they talk about men in movies. >> i have many conversations with many women and men. amazingly we talk about a wide variety of things. if you look at the dialogue in these movies that fail the test. you will see that men are talking about not only their relationships but also about how to blow up the asteroid or whatever it is. i think the general point is -- i'll get you finish. >> that there is a disproportionate emphasis in the country on how men view things and what they want. >> i got to get arthur in here. you wrote a very powerful piece or the daily beast about the

entakenment industry. you're sitting on a woman from afar and refusing to give up when she acts like she's not interested. it's a bet that nerd and nerd media kept repeating. you said there's a consistent message that men get from hollywood. >> i'm not going -- i don't think i would go to say it's a mono culture that's always exactly the same story. but when you have stories about -- when you have stories about underdog guys trying against all odds, there's usually a woman in the story who's there sort of as the reward. >> someone is having a conversation without us. is someone having a conversation? okay. go ahead. finish your thought. >> i mean, it's kind of undeniable. if you go past movies, you look

at tv, video games, a lot of things that influenced me growing up and young guys like me, this idea that to be successful means to be, you know, in a relationship with a woman. usually in movies, it's a conventionally attractive woman. a beautiful girl is your reward for doing well in life. elliott rodgers felt like he wasn't because he couldn't get what he de sevened. >> that's true of mistress myth goes to washington. he ends up with jean arthur. that's the plot of a lot of our lives. there are a lot of us successful with women way above us. there's nothing wrong with it -- >> that's the plot of the male point of view. >> okay. but you -- here's the problem i have with what you satd. i understand rachel what you're

saying about the male point of view being predominant movies. but that has nothing to do with this hideous violence. if you want to look at the prominent movies of our time that elliot rodger's father was involved with. it's all about a violent woman. >> it seems that after every mass shooting, we have the same thing, mental health, culture. this guy clearly had some sort of hatred for women. he was dispassionate about women for something. i don't know why. it's impossible to ignore that. tell me what you know about his ma sole judgeny online. >> his manifesto, if you want to call it that. i feel that he's -- you know, i agree with rachel and arthur that, you know, while you can't

say hollywood is to blame, certainly the stories that hollywood repeats over and over again are from a male point of view. they drive home the idea that men are entitled to female flesh. i mean, you haven't talked about pornography yet. if you read this kid's manifest toe, his first experience with sex was watching porn. he writes about how he thought from that moment on about how he must have sex and would never get it. porn, as it is produced in hollywood, is providing men with the idea that they could have sex without making women feel any pleasure whatsoever. so male entitledme titlement iso blame. hollywood has some role to play

in this. >> hold that thought. i got to get to a break. stay with me. when we come back, white hate ff filled rants are nothing new in the world. and later we're going to talk about america the powerful. is this country still the world's policeman and is that what president obama wants? i'm randy and i quit smoking with chantix. for 33 years i chose to keep smoking... ...because it was easier to smoke than it was to quit. along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. it's a non-nicotine pill. chantix reduced the urge for me to smoke. it actually caught me by surprise. some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. if you notice any of these, stop chantix and call your doctor right away. tell your doctor about any history of mental health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix. don't take chantix if you've had a serious allergic or skin reaction to it.

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#askdon. what can we do to fight if. back with me now, arthur and nina. i want to read another part from arthur's piece and get your reaction to it. he says we are not guaranteed to get laid by the hot clihick of r dreams. this suspect a team of writers or studio pulling for us. first, steve, isn't hollywood the biggest part of hollywood's job is to sell a fantasy? >> but it's fiction. that's what movies are, for the most part, unless it's lincoln and a true story. they're fiction and it's fun. that's why you go to the movies. arthur, that's what being a guy is all about. now matter if you look like brad

pitt or a supposedly whatever a nerd is. you always want to get the beautiful girl. >> hasn't anyone seen "she's all that"? >> i think that this is missing the point. great movies are great. i watch more tv than anyone that i know. i think the point is here, this conversation is only relevant in the context of this tragedy that we're discussing. what we're looking at is eliot rodgers and what i know influence his point of view -- >> here's the thing. >> there's something wrong with him. movies had nothing to do with it. >> hang on. hang on. go ahead steve and then rachel i'll let you finish. >> movies has nothing to do with this. neither does television.

this has to do with a deranged mind and whether he does this or something else completely inappropriate, it happens all the time. but it has nothing to do with art or a male point of view or where hollywood is coming from. >> okay. quickly, rachel, respond. >> distinction between the small category of art and the larger category of culture and how women are portrayed in culture. he got his perception of what women known him. he didn't just invent that concept. >> i think -- >> you know, what we're missing, rachel, it's the culture. the culture is it's not just hollywood. it's the sense of male entitl entitledmeentitle entitlement that what they're calling epidemic of campus

rapes. they are getting raped because young men are thought to think that female flesh is their entitlemen entitlement. whose fantasy are we talking about? >> where in any motion picture or tv show is there a plot where a guy rapes a woman and loves him for it? why the way elliot rodger did before he started shooting at them. >> i didn't see the movie the fountain head -- >> that conversation is 60 years ago. >> let's talk about this century. >> there are not movies where nerds attack women, throw coffee at them, insult them, threaten to kill them and then they get the girl. >> arthur, you should probably respond to discussion on your

own article. >> i'm going to jump in. this is one of the things that where as a guy, i think i have something to add to the conversation in that one of the things i said in the article was that rodger's manifesto. it was insane, yes. but it did not sound like it came out of the blue. you said that had his mental illness manufactured this attitude he had. for no reason, he hated women, that doesn't make sense to me. he's saying to a far greater degree, he's very unusual. no one's saying they have a country full of people like him. guys -- you know, you have a friend who gets drunk and broke up with his girlfriend and gets on a rant about women. haven't we all been there?

>> that doesn't mean you want to kill them or threaten them. >> exactly. >> complaining about the opposite sex is an american right. >> when we're talking about the epidemic and the trend of these violent crimes, they historically and recently disproportionately are targeted at women and by men. even more so -- >> which violent crimes are you talking about? >> 98% of violent crimes -- >> most of the murder victims in america are male. disproportionately african-american male. >> 95% are perpetrated by men. there are 66,000 domestic violence calls daily. >> hold that thought. steve, listen, you heard what arthur said. this is art imitates life, doesn't it?

>> of course -- to an extent it does. but we're talking about something so violent and so insane, this doesn't come from any piece of fiction. this comes from a kid who has real problems. what we need to deal with in this country and world is mental illness. we need to put more money toward it. we need to figure out how to cure them, how to put them back into society so they become productive people as opposed to people who destroy society. it has nothing to do with any part of art. >> last word. thank you, guys. steve is currently working on a script for a feature film project. thank you very much for joining us. even else, i want you to stay with me. nina, i want to talk with you next. and stay asleep so your body can heal as you rest. advil pm. for a healing night's sleep.

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elliott rodgers hateful youtube rants against women have sparked a very heated debate. beyond hollywood, you write this misogyny is woven into society. how so? >> when you don't point out all of them are committed by mep. we talk about them as mental illness and having to do with gun culture. 50% of the population is female.

50% have access to guns. women suffer mental illness in the same numbers of men, yet, it's all male. so starting there, this is something that is gendered. i'm taking this from a writer that speaks on this. it's a gendered mental illness. i would argue that misogyny that's reflected in this 140-page thing that this kid wrote is -- is not just, you know, reflecting a certain sort of mental illness that can happen to anybody, but it's its own mental illness. the dsm service should start addressing it. he was talking about it to his parents for a very long time. he'd given them access to this website and they refused to look

at it because misogyny is so much parts of our lives. >> his parents did look at it and called health professionals. but police did not go into the home. michael, regardless of the role mama -- misogyny played. yes, all women because women are just told to wear more concealing cloths. all women deserve to walk down the street without being made to feel unsafe. i've already rehearsed, take whatever you want, just don't hurts me. do you think there is an understood current of misogyny in america? >> i don't care it has to do with this particular case. and this is one of the problems that i'm hearing here. can we remind ourselves of something? there's a difference between

fantasy and the real world. there's even a difference between elliot rodger's fantasy and the real world. four out of the six bodies are male. yes, does it exist? i am the father of two beautiful daughters and i feel that very profoundly. of course it's a problem. but there's always been a problem. the one area where i do want to agree with nina, i think pornography is a huge problem in this continue. it's vastly more violent and borderline crazy. they just arrested 71 people for child porn in new york. we should attach an absolute stigma to porn addiction. that's a huge problem in america. >> no one should be the victim of violence. and you know, rachel, you went

public with your own story about violence. tell us about that. i was looking at this yes all women hash tag. it was triggered by this and still going as a response to this. recognizing the misogyny and where it intersected with mental illness. so these tweets kept oncoming. and i wanted to participate. but at the same time, it felt like an important moment of honesty. people are putting forth their testimony. one woman said she went to file a police report and the police said she hadn't done it early enough. yes all women because she had to graduate with her rapist. >> i don't think anyone dis'degrees, i think it's important and legitimate because women have legitimate concerns.

i learned from reading them. that prompted you to tell your own story. >> sure. so i -- yes, all women and i am one. i had an abusive boyfriend. it got out of hand. he attacked me. he was verbally abusive. >> he said you deserve to be punched in the face like no one and eventually he did attack you. >> yes, he said that and more. it's not to make it about me. it was to put forth my story and say, hey, this can happen to anyone. whatever you think i should have done or how i should have engaged or maybe i shouldn't have stayed for a day longer, as soon as i realized he was also crazy or also had mental illness and had issues. but you know, whatever i did or did not do, his violence was not my fault. >> right. >> and i think that was what was

important. i've had so many women reach out to me and say thank you for writing this and bricking it forth and saying it does happen. no one believes me, i'm say afraid to speak up. that is reflective of something real that is happening. >> i think it's important that you are the one that can tell your own story and no one can edit that for you. arthur, i think you've made a very good point when you said, i'm a young guy. what do you have to say to young guys out there quickly? >> i mean, i think -- well, when michael said that, you know, we're forgetting that several of the victims were men. >> most of them. two-thirds. >> go ahead, arthur. please. >> elliott rodger hated women as much as men.

okay, so misogyny, whatever you want to call it, it's a system that pits men against each other and against women. >> exactly. >> it hurts everybody. i don't know how to help a guy like him. he was really far gone. there's a lot of guys where i would say, the fist step is to not think about getting laid as the prize. getting a woman as the prize. >> i've got to go, arthur. thank you very much. >> yeah. >> thank you, don. >> we appreciate all of you joining us. nina, please stick around. the president goes to west point to talk about america's place in the world. are we still the most powerful nation on earth? should we be? that's next. and tomorrow night, the cnn original series the sixties premiers. here's a sixties minute for you.

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policeman? president obama told cadets he wants this country's policy to be might doing right. what exactly does that mean in the face of challenges? our cnn correspondent jim acosta has more now. >> in his commencement speech, president obama tells the graduates something striking. >> you are the first class to graduate since 9/11 who may not be sent into combat in iraq or afghanistan. >> it's a generation that hardly knows what peace looks like. >> happy for our nation that we're pulling out. we came here prepared to go to war. >> from west point. >> i have two sons serving in the military. i don't want them to be in harm's bay either. >> to howard's university in the

nation's capitol. >> the united states is not going to go to another war, boots on the ground with president obama in power. >> just because we have the best hammer does not mean every problem is a nail. >> he lays out the obama doctrine. >> the united states will use military force unilaterally if necessary. >> and caution. >> some of our most costly mistakes came froth from our restraint but willingness to rush into military ventures. >> it's a foreign policy mind set that stretches back to 2002. >> i don't oppose war in all circumstances. when i look out over this crowd today, i know there's no shortage of patriots. what i do oppose is a dumb war. >> he made it his mission to end

wars, not start them. >> i can report to the american people and the world that the united states has conducted an operation that killed osama bin laden. >> he's a reluctant warrior. >> i want to be clear about what we will not be doing. the united states is not going to deploy ground troops into libya. >> a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons being moved around. that would change my calculus. >> it infewer rated republicans. >> that's the president said and then didn't do it, it reverberated throughout the entire world. >> but the president insists there are tools besides military might. >> our ability to shape world opinion helped isolate russia

right away. >> perhaps most telling, recalled how he came to west point in 2009 to announce the surge in afghanistan. >> i believe america's security demanded those deployments. but i am haunted by those deaths. >> after days of strong hints that the president is ready to authorize the training of syrian rebels. all they say now is that if the u.s. wants to arm them, the administration will have to go through congress first. cnn, the white house. >> jim, thank you very much. we're going to discuss the so-called obama doctrine. and breaking news on shinseki. our experts will weigh in coming up. never bitter taste of gevalia. and we do it all for this very experience. this very second.

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president obama argues america needs to use a strong>g military andso diplomacy to dea mr. sexton is a tomorrower cia analyst. and daniel, former speech writer

for hillary clinton and nina is back with me. we have breaking news tonight. white house sources are telling cnn that secretary shin kekky's career is on thin ice. >> i think he probably should have gone to the president and said, look, in military terms you're burning far too much daylight on me. i will be the source of too many discussions and there needs to be a transformative figure that gets into the va and can really shake things up. shinseki is a magnificent leader. >> are they foreshadowing, hey, this guy is going to go in soon? >> it's a ridiculous comment to

make. we've said all along, we're going to wait for the results of the investigation. and we are concerned with the future of the va and shinseki's role in it. >> what do you make of the doctrine? >> i thought what the president said today was not necessarily the type of speech that sa thousand ka dats want to hear. they need to be, all you young men and women are going into a world that's still very unknown. we need you to be prepared and focused. we need you to be able to do the nation's bidding. for the president to come out and say the right to self-defense, i would say, great, mr. president, that's what you're supposed to do. what i would like to hear from you is help me define what our

core interests are so as we move forward, we get a sense of how our preparedness is going to fit. >> did i offer a less polite analysis? >> it was a waste of everyone's time. there was no new policy really sdusd. the president talked a lot about platitud platitudes. when you actually break down what the purpose of this was, i can't really find it. he's basically saying he was wrong on syria. he's saying we're going to help doubter terrorism operations around the world. we're already doing that. they don't want to talk about the deplorable conditions we see at the va. >> a long, long time after the president's red line on chemical weapons was crossed, is it too

little too late? >> it.comes at a time when the president recognizes that his doctrine of indecision, which is the most polite way you can describe it, isn't working. completely out of control. over 160,000 dead by the latest count. they were saying we should do something here. maybe even consider a no-fly zone. it's year six out of weight for his presidency and now he wants to tell us how he characterizes his decision around the world. if you have to tell the american people that you believe in american exceptionalism, you probably don't. >> i thought it was a good line. just because we have the best hammer does not mean that every problem is a nail. >> sure. i would first of all note that there are recent administrations

that really could have benefited from international relations 101. i'm not sure everyone would take that as a flight. this was first and foremost a commander in chief speaking to cadets. i think he showed that he cares very deeply about the decisions to use force. tlefs another speech imbedded in that, though. this new case for a new kind of american leadership. there was a very strong record. >> the important point here is how will the speech go down in moscow and tehran. >> that's the conversation that, you know, the national foreign policy experts want to have. i noticed that while obama was speaking, the washington post foreign policy expert was tweeting, you know, he's

obviously directing this speech to the american elect rat. well, you know, you say it like it's a bad thing. you know, the american elect rat are the people, the average joes in pennsylvania where i was this afternoon in these towns that have been bled dry by this gigantic folly of the iraq war. the va hospitals are filled with people who are maimed, who didn't have to be spent over there. by the way, the va is always a mess. it's always a mess. it's always a problem. of course they're going to throw shin kekky under the bus. they've made it into an issue now. the only reason it was an issue because there was this hid just folly of the iraq war. >> buck, quickly.

>> the problem is not really shinse shinseki. you have the government in charge of a massive single payer system. the president of the united states surged troops in afghanistan. why did he do that? he did it because he promised he would. he embarrassed the general based upon a rolling stone article. he is playing partisan politics with our troop's lives in a theater of war. that has been the over riding concern. >> ten seconds, mark. >> don, i need to tell you that the challenge with the war in iraq and clearly our engagement in afghanistan could be debated quite some time. i think it's inappropriate to describe the challenges in the va as a result of a folly in arack. we have to have a va that works.

hopefully we can turn the corner on this thing. let's not throw shinseki under the bus. >> that's the last world. daniel, please come back. more next time. when we come back, the passing of a legendary poet, maya angel angelou. that's why there's biotene. available as an oral rinse, toothpaste, spray or gel, biotene can provide soothing relief, and it helps keep your mouth healthy, too. remember, while your medication is doing you good, a dry mouth isn't. biotene -- for people who suffer from dry mouth. a dry mouth isn't. i missed you, too.ou. hi buddy. mom! awesome! dad!! i missed you. ♪

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before we go, some thoughts about maya angelou who died today at the anyone of 86. to so many, though she never went to college, her life was like the ultimate graduate school. the voice of more than one generation. she had been frail and suffer lg from heart problems. her heart and mind and soul were on vivid display in what may have been her greatest work. we're going to leave you now with something that most of you will remember her by. her poe em for bill clinton's first ininauguration. >> today, the rock cries out to us. clearly, forcefully, calm. you may stand upon my back and face your distant destiny, but seek no haven in my shadow.

i will give you no hiding place down here. good evening, everyone, thank you for joining us. we begin tonight with breaking news. fallout from that sharply critical inspector general's report on the v.a. hospital in phoenix. a document that confirms what this program has been uncovering since last november. namely, the veterans have been waiting months for care and that phoenix cooked the books to cover it. the problem could be system-wide. as we're coming to you tonight the house affairs committee is in session, complete with fireworks. >> can you say anything without reading your prepared notes? and while i have your attention, can you please explain to me why we in fact have 110 outstanding requests for information, some dealing with this issue