reizationizati deals they're tr to arrange. there are men in maximum security lockdown held for 10, 12 years and do not get along with their captors. >> carol rosenberg, thanks very much. nic robertson, of course, thanks to you as well. that's it for me. i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." let's step into the "crossfire" with van jones and s.e. cupp. there are serious questions about president obama's prisoner swap with of all people the taliban. >> but the deal actually did get our last captured u.s. soldier out of afghanistan. i think some republicans want to send him back. the debate starts now. >> tonight on "crossfire," the president trades five u.s. enemies for an army sergeant. >> the united states of america does not ever leave our men and women in uniform behind. >> republicans accuse obama of breaking the law. >> the obama administration didn't notify anyone in this process. >> on the left, van jones. on the right, s.e. cupp.

in the "crossfire," senator sheldon whitehouse, a rhode island democrat. and senator john hovan, a north dakota republican. did the president set a dangerous precedent or bring home a hero? tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." i'm van jones on the left. >> i'm s. e. cupp on the right. tonight, u.s. army sergeant bowe bergdahl is free but there are too many serious questions to ask before we can all celebrate his return. why did president obama leave congress in the dark? why would we release five high-level terrorists to exchange for a guy who many in the military consider to be a traitor? what assurances does the united states have that these terrorists who are dangerous enough to be held in gitmo are suddenly safe enough to be released? and finally, is our centuries-old policy that the

united states does not negotiate with terrorists a thing of the past? >> look, those are all good questions, but as for me, i'm happy we got this guy back home. we do not leave people behind and didn't leave him behind. in the "crossfire," democratic senator sheldon whitehouse of rhode island and republican senator john hovan of nd orth dako dakota. senator, i've been hearing republicans say we're setting this horrible precedent and encouraging terrorists. do you think israel encourages terrorism when they do prisoner swaps, you know, in 2011, they did a swap of a thousand prisoners. do you think that they're encouraging terrorism? >> no. everyone knows israel takes a very touch ligh line when it coo terrorism. >> what's wrong with us doing it? >> we have to do the same thing. we're all glad bowe bergdahl has been released. the question is, was this the right way to do it? there are real concerns here. >> i want to nail you down on this. i've been hearing all day long

this is some horrible thing, we're setting this horrible precedent. at the end of wars as wars wind down, you do exchanges of prisoners. israel has done these prisoner swaps. you think they are setting a bad example, is netanyahu encouraging terrorism when he does this sort of stuff? if he don't think he's wrong, if he's not wrong, why is obama wrong? >> first off, israel takes a tough stance on terrorism. we all recognize that. now, in this case, why didn't the president notify congress? that's the law. i voted for that law. i'm guessing senator whitehouse did. the president, why didn't he follow the law? the other thing is we need more information here on what are all of the details of the agreement here? >> yeah, senator whitehouse, the president i think set a truly terrifying precedent today by putting a price on the head of every american soldier. are you concerned that the 33,000 soldiers we still have in afghanistan have just been endangered by this president? >> it's no precedent at all. we have been doing prisoner

swaps, humankind, for as long as there has been warfare. we did prisoner swaps in europe through the wars of the roses. we did the pelapanesian war had prisoner swaps. nothing new about this. the commander in chief had a sole swrer dier in enemy hands engaged in a prisoner swap to bring an american home. to me, that ends the story. >> you're not concerned about returning these five high-level terrorists back into the theatre and the danger they might cause there and at home? >> the bush/cheney administration released 500 prisoners. >> that doesn't answer my question, senator. are you concerned? >> they didn't get a single prisoner back. >> are you concerned about releasing the five high-level terrorists? >> i think -- they're not. they're being released into qatari custody. >> for a year. for a year. >> we have programs that have been deployed already and fairly

successfully. although there are no guarantees in this business for reacclimating people. i'm sure they're going to go into that program. >> as long as we have your assurance -- >> i didn't say that. >> -- that they're going to go into that program. >> i think they're definitely going into that program. will they misbehave later? >> misbehaving i think is putting it lightly. >> we want to get our people home. we all agree on that. we need to find out all the ramifications of what was done ear. what is this going to be mean for americans in the future? is there an incentive now for terrorist groups to abduct americans or american soldiers because they want to trade for prisoners. >> right. >> this is something i've been hearing and i think it's a valid thing to talk about. i've got a bigger concern here. i've been really shocked to see how aggressive people have gone after the president for bringing an american soldier home. it seems like there's a narrative forming. i want you to tell me if i'm wrong. the narrative is let's take this guy, this soldier we got home, diminish him, turn him into some kind of a caricature. we don't know if he's a traitor. say negative things about him, insult his family then take the

five that were released and build them up into this mega threat against us and say the president of the united states is a traitor who turned in a traitor to let out our enemies. is that the kind of benghazization of this? >> it's not. we need to deal with the facts but you have to ask the question, why didn't the president work with congress? because a lot of this could have been covered. i think those questions would have been answered upfront. that's the right way to. >> in fact, senator diane fine stain also said today she wishes the president would have gone to her. >> as do i. i think it would have been appropriate for the administration to go to the chairman and ranking members of the intelligence and armed services committees on the house and senate side. and i don't -- i haven't been read into how very delicate these negotiations were and why they felt that was not appropriate. as a general proposition, i think they would have saved themselves a fair amount of grief if they had read some of our colleagues who had the appropriate committee position into what was going on. >> and that we agree.

>> yeah. if we all agree, then, that the president probably went about this the wrong way and not informing at least some members of congress to this, and we agree, i think, that we just released five high-level terrorists. no one argues that these are not great guys. that we just released. i think we can agree there are some questions around bowe bergdahl's commitment to service and commitment to his unit. i'm not really sure -- >> i'm not sure those are fair yet. it's way too early -- >> it's fair to have those questions. >> a man in american uniform in enemy hands for fooiive years a start trashing him. the military has a way. if he's subject to military discipline, have that work its way out. >> i'm not trashing him. members of the military are talking publicly about their concerns that bowe bergdahl -- >> not people in the official chain of command who are responsible for this. they're just voices. >> you respect the military chain of command. this soldier is in good standing

with the military, promoted while he was captive. do you respect the military's ability to make this determination or think the random people trashing him should be giving the -- >> this goes back to the point you were making earlier, van, i think we have to be very careful just to deal with the facts here. so that's why i'm focusing on what is this agreement? i mean, and is it something that was done in the right way and what are the ramifications for americans, the security of americans both civilians and our soldiers in the future? now, the issue that s.e. brought up, that's a secondary issue that will need it be dealt with. >> tough question, would you have left him there? you're the commander in chief, t on the table for you now, you don't have the 30 days. yes or no, leave him there or bring him home? >> we have to do everything we can to bring our people home. no question about it. >> you would have left him over there, brought him home? >> you have to follow the law. >> everybody would have brought him home. >> we want him home. we afrgree on that. there's a lot more to it that needs to be evaluated.

>> all these are important issues and wouldn't discount any of it. the president needs to follow the law. i want to push you, if you tnt have the 30 days, would you have let him die there or bring him home? >> i would have done everything in my power to bring hem home. i want the information. >> well said. >> in 2011 congress agreed in a bipartisan opposition to the idea of releasing any gitmo prisoners. what has changed? >> well, we've been releasing gitmo prisoners for as long as we've had gitmo. as i said, president bush and vice president cheney released 500 of them. so, and we have to eventually close down that facility. so we've been moving them out into various forms either for prosecution or to other countries that can contain them. that's just a fact. this doesn't change. >> i think we're at the beginning of this debate, not the end of it and republicans aren't just mad at the president about the prisoner swap. they're also mad at him because he's fighting against pollution. i'm going to ask senator hoeven why he has a knee jerk response

to president obama's announcement today about carbon which brings us to today's "crossfire" quiz. going to ask you this. which president set up the environmental protection agency? was it lyndon johnson, jimmy carter, or richard nixon? we're going to give you those answers when we get back.

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personalized coverage and savings -- all the things humans need to make our world a little less imperfect. call... and ask about all the ways you could save. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? welcome back to "crossfire." now, let's debunk two myths republicans are pushing after today's big announcement that president obama wants to cut carbon pollution by 30%. republican myth number one, obama is doing an in-run around congress. no. he's enforcing existing law. which by the way brings us to our "crossfire" quiz, who created the epa? radical socialist, richard nixon, uh-huh, who also signed

the clean air act. today supreme court says nixon's agency and nixon's law that gives obama the power to address climate disruption. that's myth number one. myth number two, this will kill the economy. now, look, big polluters say that about every pollution control measure. and then once the rule is in place, american businesses do what they always do. they adapt, they innovate, they clean up the problem and keep making money. so, in the "crossfire" tonight, senators sheldon whitehouse and john hoeven. i want to start with you. isn't it the case that we need to look at acid rain, look at any of these big pollution issues that we've had, kicks and screams, this is terrible, going to kill the economy. as soon as the rules are in place, american business outinnovates, outcompetes, solves a problem, keeps on moving. why can't that be the case with carbon? >> we this is going to shut down coal plants. instead of developing and deploying the technologies, not

only produce more energy with better environmental stewardship, we're going to bring that to a screeching halt and it's a de facto tax, regressive tax on low-income people in this country. >> you agree with that, senator? >> no, not even close. >> where is is he wrong? >> well, for starters, the coal industry always looks at only one side of the ledger. they look at only the jobs and the fossil fuel industry. only the effects in the fossil fuel industry. they completely overlooked that if you actually diminish your investment in coal, you actually may be investing a lot more in wind, solar, in efficiency, in things that create american jobs with american products. so you could have reduced coal and enhanced economic investment and growth. >> well, senator whitehouse, that's hard to tell the thousands of north dakotans invested in lignite jobs and there are thousands and thousands of them. an alternative to coal, of course, is natural gas. it's cheaper trks cleaner, so why aren't you, like, a fanatic for fracking? >> i'm actually -- i've said

publicly that natural gas i think is a very important bridge if it's not leaking. if it's leaking, the methane does more climate damage than carbon. so, you got to make sure it's not leaking. if you're actually getting it to the burner and burning it, then it is a relative advantage. as for the folks who are in the lignite industry, for north dakota, if i understand the standards correctly, they've got to reduce by 10% their carbon output by 2030. they can do that. that's very simple. that's not a job killer. >> senator, the truth is in our state we're developing all sources of energy. we not only have oil and gas, we're now the second largest oil-producing state in the nation. we're doing incredible things with natural gas. that's been part of the reason for the reduction in ghg over the last ten years. as you know, it's gone down over the last ten years but we also have wind, biofuels, all of the above because we've created an environment where you can invest and deploy these technologies.

the president is going to bring it to a grinding halt. >> he's going to move it to other technologies that do less harm to my state. >> this is a global issue. we can't export our regulations but we can export our technologies if we develop them here. >> hold on a second. first of all, under this president, the cost of solar has come down by 60%. under this president, the price of wind has come down by 30%. this president had an $80 billion commitment in the stimulus package to get green energy going. we are leading on technology. but are you telling me that it's perfectly okay for us to spend money as a country to try and develop clean energy and do nothing about the dirty energy? >> my whole point is, if you create that environment, you will get the investment. you talk about those statistics. most of that in terms of what we've done in oil, gas in these areas, and you, yourself, said gas is an important part of the future. >> in transition. >> in spite of the president because the regulatory barriers he's created and the cost he's imposed. >> there are very few regulatory barriers and very little cost in the formation of this rule.

it allows the states to come up with a plan to figure out how they're going to reduce their carbon emissions. they can do it in all sorts of ways. do it by investing in wind which is investment like investment in coal. do it by investing in alternative technologies by putting their utilities on to having multiple sources of fuel and not just coal. they can do it with efficiency, making houses and businesses more efficient, which by the way also saves money. there is an estimate that this on balance will actually increase jobs. >> $51 billion reduction in annual gdp. loss of almost a quarter million jobs a year. $300 billion-plus in higher costs including to low-income people. $600 billion in lower disposable income. that's a study -- >> those are -- >> the chamber of commerce is excellent at giving those kind of talking points. here's the problem. they said that every time there's been carbon control, every time that's been pollution control, and they're always wrong.

you know why? they underestimate the ability of the american business to innovate. >> may not even be telling the truth from the get-go. >> higher electricity cost, not only burdened the families in business. we're going to export our manufacturing and make not even a dent in global greenhouse gas emissions. we need to develop those technologies and the world will follow. that's the right approach. >> it will help them better if there's a market incentive. >> you're just going to shut them down? >> senator whitehouse, don't have to take it from me or senator hoeven, take it from fellow democrats. alison grimes running for senate in kentucky said i'll fiercely oppose the president's attack on the coal industry because protecting my jobs will be my number one priority. she's a democrat like i said. a number of unions attack on -- president really throwing democrats and his base under the bus to push this on behalf of probably special interests. >> because he's the president of the united states and not the

president of the coal industry. and because states like mine get very little benefit from coal. >> do they count? >> they do count and that's why there's so much flexibility for them to be able to achieve that in their coal industry. but in rhode island, it's a cost that the coal industry always forgets or pretends isn't real and i will submit and i will agree that in john's state and in joe manchin's stays, there is a need to go in and be prepared to help the coal industry with this transition. i accept that. what i don't accept is them pretending is that ten inches of sea level rise isn't real. >> but the issue is how you can solve the problem. >> stay here, we want you at home to weigh in on today's

fireback question, do you think president obama made the right decision to trade five gitmo detainees for bowen bergdahl. i'm outraged about why the daughter of a famous hollywood couple is going around topless. peace of mind is important when you're running a successful business. so we provide it services you can rely on. with centurylink as your trusted it partner, you'll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on. multi-layered security solutions keep your information safe, and secure. and responsive dedicated support meets your needs, and eases your mind. centurylink. your link to what's next.

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welcome back, it's time for the outrages of the day. did you happen to catch scout willis, daughter of bruce and demi moore walking around new york city topless last week?

no? many were puzzled by the stunt, but finally she's laid out her rationale. she was protesting instagram's policy against posting topless shots of women. she says, quote, matters like the taboo in the nipple in the 21st century, public breast feet i feeding. she hopes that walking around topless provides an opportunity for dialogue about instagram's, quote, prejudiced community guidelines. i can just see them now, frederick douglas and ususan b. anthony -- someone, hopefully the kid of famous hollywood celebrities would fight the unjust prejudice. prejudice against emancipating one's nipple in public. good work, scout, keep fighting the good fight. >> i -- i -- i'm just going on

to mine. this year's annual migration of monarch butterflies has hit an all-time low. the question you should ask is who is killing his butterflies and why should you care? actually butterflies are neat. and they're critical for pollinating our crops so humans can eat food. no butterflies, no crops, no food. man-made herbicides are actually wiping out butterflies food source which is milk weed. today's crops are genetically modified to with stand massive amounts s of pesticides. let's check back on our fire back results, do you think president obama made the right decision to trade five gitmo

detainees for sergeant bergdahl? right now 39% of you say yes, 61% of you say no. >> you're wrong. >> so senators, what does it say to you that at least according to our poll the american public is not with president obama on how he went about doing this? >> i would rather him being with the bergdahl family. i'm proud that he made the decision that he made. >> we're glad for the family, but there's a real concern about how this deal was done and we need to get all the facts. >> fair enough, i am really curious, when you hear what he's saying, you do have this human side of it. do you think republicans are making a mistake by not speaking more forcefully to the human insight to this family. >> we have got to get the whole story, and understand the ramifications for our american military. >> i want to thank you both. this debate is going to continue online at cnn.com/crossfire.

>> join us tomorrow for another edition of cross fire. erin burnett "out front" starts right now. next the release of america's only known prisoner of war. new details about how the operation went down. but was it worth the right. and a fellow soldier who served with bergdahl says he's not a hero, he's a deserter. a and the search for flight 370. the one thing investigators thought was certain is false, totally not true. let's go "out front." good evening, everyone, i'm erin burnett, sergeant bowe