this was a very vintage 2000 senate race moment of taking the criticism head-on. and it works. even some republicans think the squirrel is a tad goofy. so she made the most of that moment. >> she certainly did. >> and lots of superpacs are going to be following her around the country at every event, doing stunts like this. she handled it exactly the right way. >> thank you for watching cnn's town hall event tonight. i'm wolf blitzer. the news continues on cnn. for many reasons, a lot of people in this city are likely not sleeping easy tonight. not is with sunni extremist fighters less than 40 miles to the north of this city, battling to add bakuba. terror attacks playing out there and right here in the capital. not with bodies being discovered in road-side bombs going off and the government of nuri al maliki showing few signs of being able or even willing to hold this country together. even if he could, even if it were possible. not many people, as i said, sleeping easy tonight.

>> forces attacking the city of bakuba less than 40 miles of the capital. the push into bakuba is another troubling sign for prime minister nuri al maliki, who is seen over the past week his military unable to stop the militants' advances. hundreds of thousands are fleeing the fights. on this road, entire families took whatever possessions they could, even livestock and left. mlicki have called on ordinary iraqis to take up arms against the militants. thousands of shia have responded. this video, uploaded to youtube claims to show hundreds of shia in naja signing up to fight. cnn cannot independently verify the video. on a baghdad street, we met one young man selling shoes. he says he has already signed up to fight.

on god's will he says, iraq will be stabilized and we shall stay as a thorn in their eye. we will be victorious. we don't need any u.s. occupation or iran. we don't need any arab country. us iraqis are heroes. but with the fighting concerns the sectarian divide is deepening. new signs of possible sectarian killings. days after videos uploaded by isis claim to show mass killings of shia, nearly four dozen sunni prisoners at a jail in bakuba were killed as militants besiege the city. according to a local health official, they were shot to death at close range. allegations they were killed by iraqi police were denied by authorities who blame the deaths on shelling by isis. also in baghdad, another troubling sign. four bodies were found today in a largely shia neighborhood. they apparently had been shot at very close range. now it's not clear if this is an isolated incident or is this is

a sign of rising sectarian violence. at the height in 2006 and 2007, sometimes there would be dozens of bodies every day that would be discovered, often with signs of torture, hands bound, sometimes holes drilled into their heads. there was more bloodshed in baghdad today. a car bomb exploded in the predominantly shia neighbor of sadr city, one of just six bombs detonated in baghdad today. we got word there was a blast not too far from here, five or ten minute drive. we're not sure what sort of a device it was. we believe it was some sort of a roadside device. a couple of days ago there was a person with a suicide vest that detonated themselves. this is early reports. three people are dead. a number of others are wounded. we're still trying to gather more information. normally we would rush to the scene. but in baghdad, that is a very dangerous thing to do. often there are secondary device timed to explode 10, 20, 30 minutes after the first device. so any first responders to go to

try to help those wounded and killed, they get killed in that secondary device. we're going to hang back and try to gather more information. but it's just a sign of how dangerous things are in baghdad these days. according to iraqi police, 12 people were killed in the blast, dozens more injured. a lot to talk about tonight. nic robertson is with me in baghdad. arwa damon is in erbil, which has seen a flood of people arriving from mosul after isis took the city. let's talk what is happening in bakuba. it gives you the difficult of a, reporting here, but also how kind of all sides try to manipulate information. we got this report about 44 prisoners being killed in their cells cells bakuba. they stole all the weapons. the government here reported that it was shelling, that it was size sis shelling that killed these sunni prisoners, but through our reporting, we

found sources at the morgue and at the hospitals are saying in fact they were shot at close range. >> it shows you the brutality, the close-up brutality, because it does appear as if the iraqi police were the ones who shot these prisoners because they were sunni prisoners and the assumption was that the isis fighters would release them. >> they didn't want the sunni prisoners to fall in the hands of isis. >> soy they literally went and shot them at close range. isis uploaded brutal videos, they are horrible, war crimes even. here essentially you have the same thing happening inside a jail. and the government it appears is trying to manipulate the message to us and to the people saying look, isis actually killed them. it rocketed the jail there. so i mean, it's two things. it is blatant propaganda and it is bar bare barbarity.

we can't get there to find out what is going on for ourselves. that's key this evening. we don't know how the fight is going. is isis on the verge of pushing through getting closer to baghdad? we just can't find out. >> arwa, one of the things that you and nick have both been emphasizing in your reporting is this is not just isis fighters. there are also other groups involved here, sunni militant groups. talk about that a little bit what you're seeing on the ground. >> well, anderson, this is one of the main reasons why isis has been able to make this dramatic advance towards the capital baghdad, and that is that it is not fighting on its own. it has the support of the sunni tribes, and it does also for the time being at least have the support of those sunni insurgent groups that were so prominent and so successful during the u.s.-led occupation of iraq. at this point, even though they do not share the same ideology in that these sunni groups do not want to see an islamic

caliphate established, they are united when it comes to their desire to want to not only see shia prime minister al maliki removed from power, but more significantly, a remove from shia dominance, anderson? >> so the reason that's so important for people at home to know that is it possible to somehow pry some of these groups or these sunni tribes away from isis and get them back to support the central government here? >> i think the answer to that is yes. i base that on an interview i did with a sunni triable leader four days ago in jordan. he was one of the tribal leaders who is now associated with isis and with these other sunni rebel factions, fighting here to push maliki out of government. but he was also one of the same tribal leaders who was fighting with the marines to clear out al qaeda in the west of iraq back in '06 and '07.

he said to me, you know, number one, we can defeat isis if we need to. the tribes are much stronger. but he also said i would like to talk to the americans. they don't want to be tarred with the same brush as isis. they don't want to be seen as radicals. they want political change. so there is that scope for diplomats or whomever to get in and pry them away. >> but one of the things that prime minister al maliki did, he stopped the payments the american forces were giving to these sunni groups as part of this so-called sunni awakening. >> because it would make them stronger over time and he was afraid to give additional power to the sunnis, and they saw this and they read this. the tribal leader i spoke to was incredibly frustrated. he said look, we saw this happening in recent years we tried protest. the government came out a year or so ago. arwa was there. she covered this. they were gunned down on the streets. protests, dozens of people killed in those peaceful protests by the government, and that's why they have risen up and taken arms. from their point of view, this

is a final desperate act. they are desperate for international help again. they're not getting it. they're taking up weapons. >> we're going to talk more than later in the broadcast. arwa, thanks very much. nic robertson as well. set your dvr and watch 360 whenever you would like. american faces and europeaners, british, french people being called to wage holy war in the region. this is a recruiting video calling on people to join the caravan of jihad and martyrdom. that's what they call it. the man in it believed to be an american man from florida who blew himself up. later, breaking news, details on the operation capture a suspect in the benghazi killings, and clinton reacting in a cnn town hall. i got this.

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welcome back. we're live in baghdad, more on the one man that might have it in his power to stop the war in iraq. his actions could prevent further u.s. military involvement. man who so far has shown to be maddening partner for two american presidents. we're talk about prime minister nuri al maliki. "the new york times" reporting, and i quote, what he, maliki does not do by all accounts is

spend much time on the political reconciliation with the sunni, arabs and kurds that his international allies in washington and iran have insisted is his country's only possible salvation. they are insisting now. and as randi kaye report, american leaders in both parties have insisted before. >> reporter: after the fall of iraqi president saddam hussein in 2003, nuri al maliki saw an opening. he had spent 24 years in exile in syria and iran, and was finally able to return to iraq in 2003. unlike hussein, who was sunni, maliki was shiite muslim. in 2006 he was sworn in as prime minister. he spoke to congress that year. >> translator: we now face a different kind of terror. we did not bow then, and we will not bow now. >> reporter: back in 2006, the bush white house supported maliki, looking to him to alter the balance of power giving

shiites more control and weakening the sunnis. maliki had once promised to unify iraq. even welcome sunnis into the government. colonel peter mensure was general david petraeus's officer. >> he used all of his power to pursue political enemies rather than reaching out and ensuring he could embrace them and bring them into the tent. >> reporter: iraq sunni insurgency has been gaining momentum since 2006. in fact, the general placed his strategy behind the troop surge in 2007 was to give maliki and the shiites more time to figure out how to share power with the sunnis. instead, maliki was accused of reneging on deals he had made cutting off funding to the sunni tribes after they helped defeat al qaeda in 2008, even targeting high ranking sunnis. last year, president obama praised maliki after meeting with him at the white house. >> we were encouraged by the work that the prime minister

maliki has done in the past to ensure that all people inside of iraq sunni, shiite and kurd feel they have a voice in their government. >> reporter: and just last week, maliki was still preaching unity. >> translator: we must stand as one united front. our insistence and will must never waver when it comes to expelling these criminals. >> reporter: yet it was maliki who may have prevented the united states from keeping troops in iraq after the surge to help build a true democracy. >> he made it very difficult for the united states to retain troops in iraq. but, again, the obama administration never really tried. >> reporter: now maliki is under pressure again, with president obama insisting the united states will only step in if nuri al maliki takes another shot at a unified state where shiites,

kurds, and sunnis live in peace. randi kaye, cnn, new york. >> let's dig deeper now in the political and the military challenges as well as the enormous complexities involved with ken pollack, is the center for middle east policy. he was an early supporter of the war in iraq and the former ambassador to iraq. you made a number of points which i think are really important that i want to get to. one, you said a lot of people we talk about isis forces. but this is a coalition of groups. it's not just one group. explain that. >> that's right. isis is the lead dog here. they're the ones who triggered this entire movement by their invasion from syria. but first and foremost we have to recognize isis is also a big iraqi group. they have a big iraqi component. since they have moved back into iraq in force, what they have done is gathered to them a wide coalition of other sunni militant groups. and now they're beginning to bring iraqi sunni tribes into the fold as well. it's basically a large group of

people, all of whom were unified by one thing. they hate and fear prime minister maliki, and they believe that he is a shia dictator. and most of those tribes, frankly, don't really care for isis or what it stands for, what it wants to do. they don't want a caliphate in western iraq. but they are more frightened and more unhappy with prime minister maliki than they are with isis. and they see the militant cause as basically being the least of two bad options. >> and ambassador jeffrey, the reason i think that is such an important point to think about when we think about who iraqi forces are fight against is the diplomatic component, the political component is crucial here. this is something you and have i talked about over the last several nights for the government of nuri al maliki to actually in real ways reach out to those sunni groups who might otherwise align themselves with isis, not because of any ideological affinity for isis, but because they frankly fear the shia-dominated government here. >> absolutely, anderson.

two points. one is at this point, however, maliki isn't doing a stabilization operation in the sunni areas. right now he has been thrown on the defensive by an isis-led blitzkrieg that is now in baqubah to the north and to the south of baghdad, threatening shia areas. and that's more of a military than a long-term stabilization political diplomatic endeavor. and that's what the president has to face right now among other things. it involves iranians coming in and our own people on the ground right in the middle of this thing. >> so on paper you see that the iraqi military far outnumbers the isis forces and others 100 to 1 or 50 to 1. how can they be defeated? talk a little bit about how that is possible. my understanding is it's morale issues, it's leadership issues, and also a lot of shia forces stationed in mosul saw no reason to try to stand up and fight in a sunni-dominated area. is that accurate?

>> exactly. we've seen these armies collapse before. in 2003, in 1991. if these troops do not believe they are fighting for their own territory and their own people, their own families, they did hold and fight against the iranians in the 1980s. so they can fight if they think that they're motivated. they will fight for the shia areas, anderson. but the problem again is there are intertwined shia and sunni communities all around baghdad. that's why baghdad is so critical right now. >> ken, baghdad is because of the -- what went on here in 2006-2007, baghdad is overwhelmingly sunni -- excuse me, overwhelmingly shia dominated. so do you think it's unlikely that baghdad itself could possibly fall? because it does seem like iraqi security force, largely shia would be far more motived to actually protect this shia city. >> i think you've hit on a number of very important point, anderson. and i think it is the case, as jim is already suggesting that

isis and the other iraqi sunni militants are going to have a much tougher fight on their hands as they get closer and closer to baghdad. we're already seeing this up in samarra and some of the other outlying towns where. the shia soldiery is now defending their homes and their families, all of the sudden there is stiff resistance. let's remember, they have been joined by large information of shia militiamen who are every bit as vicious as the militant fighters on the sunni side. and they're now being backed up by some degree by the iranians. and all of those different elements are probably going to lead to a much, much tougher fight for baghdad. and let's also throw in the fact let's remember, baghdad is an enormous city. it's eight, maybe even nine million people. it is a huge urban sprawl. and urban terrain is some of the toughest terrain to take, especially a force like isis, which so far is mostly capitalized on surprise and speed. that's going to be much harder

to really pudge through in baghdad. >> ken pollack, again, a really fascinating writing. thank you very much for joining us. ambassador jeffrey as well. >> thank you for having us. >> thank you. >> for more on this story and others, you can go to cnn.com. up next, the other big of the news. the capture of a suspect in the attack of the american diplomatic compound in benghazi. we'll have former secretary of state hillary clinton's response. what she said about it in a town hall moderated by cnn's christiane amanpour. that's next. jobs all over america. engineering and innovation jobs. advanced safety systems & technology. shipping and manufacturing. across the united states, bp supports more than a quarter million jobs. when we set up operation in one part of the country, people in other parts go to work. that's not a coincidence. it's one more part of our commitment to america.

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four americans. u.s. officials tell cnn that ahmed abu khatallah went into hiding after a flurry of interviews last year, including one with our own arwa damon. khatallah was lured to a location south of benghazi. army delta force command don't go away, the fbi and others were watching and waiting for days before they captured him this past weekend. he was then taken to a u.s. navy ship. he is now being questioned about his role in the 2012 attack in benghazi. our chief national security correspondent jim sciutto joins me from washington with more. what do we know, jim? >> we know this is something that has been in planning for some time. they knew where he was in general. but military officials tell me it's one thing to know his general location. it's another thing for journalists to meet with him, but to go in a raid, that's a gunfight. he was very well protected, and they had to wait for their opportunity here to do that. the line today from admiral kirby, the pentagon spokesman was it's not like we can just wait for him to go out for a milk shake and pick him up in a

taxi. this was a dangerous operation, they found their opportunity, and they went ahead. >> and what's going to happen to him? he will be tried in court? and do we know the charges? >> he is coming to court here in washington, d.c. and we know the charges. you know, you read them. this is a tough rap sheet. one, kill a person in the course of an attack on a federal facility, providing material support to terrorists, discharging a weapon during an attack, a crime of violence. and the list may be longer. and that first charge, killing a person in the course of an attack on federal facilities, that could carry the death penalty. >> are there others that they're looking for? >> they say there are others that they're looking for, that they are still building their case, and they're even still building their case against khatallah. that's why they make a point of mentioning that he could face more charges. but there are others -- they're still looking out there. and they say they have others that they have intelligence on,

but not that they've been able to move in and pick up just yet. >> why did it take so long to find him? >> well, this is the case that they make. they knew the general area, and of course they knew that arwa damon and other journalists were able the see him. but, again, going in to get him was going to be an armed operation. it's risky. and they want to make sure that there is no loss of life, you know, on either side, because this is someone they wanted to bring in and prosecute in an american court. that took time to find that opportunity. but again, as you noted, the intelligence was in the last several months he has been much more cautious, appearing in public less often. not like it was several months ago when he was meeting in open journalists and kind of bragging about how free he was. >> all right. jim sciutto, i appreciate you joining us. thanks, jim. former secretary of state hillary clinton says she hopes that khatallah's arrest will help put the pieces together of

what happened. here is what she said a short time ago in a cnn town hall moderated by christiane amanpour. >> well, i'm very pleased. this is another indication as president obama said in his statement today that the united states has an unwavering commitment to bring to justice those who are responsible for attacks on americans, no matter where they are, no matter how long it takes. >> clinton also said she empathize was the families of the four americans that were killed and she understands why they are demanding answers. >> i'm still looking for answers because it was a confusing and difficult time. but i would hope that every american would understand, number one, why we were there, because we need to be in dangerous places. and number two, that we're doing the best that we can to find out what happened. and i hope that fair-minded people will look at that seriously. >> christiane joins me with more of her television with hillary

clinton. christiane, let's begin with benghazi. you pushed the secretary on whether or not ambassador steven should have been there that day. what did you think of her answer? >> well, she gave the standard answer that this is what we're about. we're america projecting our diplomatic presence, even in dangerous places. but when i kept pressing her about it, on that day of all days she said of course, had we understood these protests that started in cairo that day, we would have probably told and perhaps should have told our staff, all of them to just hunker down that day and don't go out. so, yes, that is a thought that she is processing right now. >> in terms of iraq, secretary clinton put very squarely the blame for what is going own here at the feet of prime minister nuri al maliki, saying he should have extended the status of forces agreement which would have allowed u.s. forces to stay here, and critics of the obama administration say the obama administration didn't really work that hard to extend that status of forces agreement. what did you make of her answer on that? because she also says that the maliki has got to reach out to

other forces to sunni forces within the country? >> well, look, i kind of am coming to the dreadful realization that possibly this administration might just not do anything very much. they have really it appears given up on maliki. obama has been saying that kind of stuff. and tonight i thought hillary clinton went very forward-leaning in just dismissing maliki and putting all the blame on him. and they have not come up with any military plan to stop the march of isis. so i'm wondering whether they are going to give up and see the chips where they may. perhaps see a partition of iraq. >> there is also -- there was a question from the audience about gun control, gun violence. secretary clinton jumped on that. >> she did. in fact, she was the most forward leaning i've heard. i haven't heard her on many domestic issues. but she really did talk about a small minority who terrorized the majority, that the majority

of the american people want to see certain provisions and controls put in, sensible ones like background checks. in answer to the question, she said yes, an assault weapons ban should go in again. and for those high caliber ammunition clips. but she really was very forward leaning on that. and of course, explained again that nobody is talking about taking legitimate gunowners' guns away, just making sure it happens in a safer environment. >> christiane amanpour, appreciate you being with us. christiane, thanks so much. >> thanks, anderson. up next, roughly hundreds of americans and thousands of europeans have come to syria to join groups. the concern is they're going to go back to the united states, to england, to france and sow terror there. and tony blair being accused of trying to rewrite history. critics blasting him over the past few days for saying that the 2003 invasion of iraq did not cause the current crisis

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control multiple towns and cities in iraq are primarily sunni iraqis. but analysts say their ranks are also growing and include a number of foreign fighters, including some americans. the group's recruitment videos are urging westerners to join the fight. thousands may be answering the call to wage jihad in the middle east. at least one american has carried out a suicide bombing in syria this year, a guy from florida. it is a disturbing development to say the least. one big concern of course is that these american recruits and european recruits may eventually return to the united states and to western europe to launch attacks. pamela brown has more. >> reporter: at first, it almost looks like a hollywood movie trailer. but this is no action film. it's a call to action. islamist militants trying to lure in like-minded americans and europeans to join the caravan of jihad and martyrdom. and it's working. >> the number of americans that have come to this region, including syria, not just iraq,

to fight with groups like isis and others have grown over time. >> reporter: u.s. officials estimate about 100 americans and thousands of europeans have poured into syria since the war started. some joining jihadist groups like isis. they're there to study terrorism at their camps in the region. >> where americans and europeans can go to get training in how to build bombs, counter intelligence, propaganda. it has become a foreign jihadist battlefield that includes europeans, some with visa waiver access potentially to the united states. >> reporter: a u.s. intelligence official tells cnn the man in this isis video with the blurred face is an american, a 22-year-old jihadist from vero beach, florida, who ended up dying for jihad, killing himself and three dozen others with a truck bomb in syria last month. the growing concern is that isis, a group too barbaric for

even al qaeda will send its american recruits on the ultimate mission, back to the u.s. to launch a massive attack. >> so it's something i wake up every morning worrying about. >> reporter: today a blunt fbi director, james combey said it's not a matter firefighter the jihadists will try to return to the u.s. to wreak havoc, but when. >> there are thousands of people from all over the world, including from all parts of the united states who are traveling to syria, learning the worst kinds of techniques and tactics and making the worst kinds of relationships. at some point there will be a dies diaspora bringing with it the skills, the relationships. and we have to make sure we anticipate what the future might be if we're not careful. >> reporter: pamela brown, cnn, washington. >> and that's a very scary thought. a unique perspective on what it takes to recruit islamic militants. he used to be one. now he is author of the book

"radical: my journey out of islam extremism." he joins me with former bush homeland security adviser fran townsend. fran, we talked to ken pollack earlier in the program who said you shouldn't overestimate the impact of foreign fighters here, that this is an iraqi operation. that being said, there is a foreign component here. it is very important. how concern ready u.s. intelligence officials about that sort of foreign legion as part of the isis contingent, and about the possibility of them returning to the united states and europe and sowing the seeds of terror? >> anderson, having spoken to lots of folks in the intelligence community at very senior levels, they emphasize that look, the numbers vary in terms of estimates of foreign fighters. anywhere from say about 11,000 to over 20,000 foreign fighters. that there is a real concern that this is the single greatest threat outside of sort of the

core terrorism. you know, we often hear about al qaeda in the arabian pence, that will yemen group. but the focus right now is that this is a very real threat. we recently saw an american suicide bomber killed inside of syria. the worry is that these guys are difficult to track. they'll get experience. some of them will not be killed. they'll travel. they put those numbers traveling to places like western europe in the thousands. and those traveling all the way back to the united states in the dozens to over 100. so there is a direct correlation to the threat to the u.s. homeland that is really captivated the attention of law enforcement and intelligence officials here in the united states. >> you know all about the radicalization of westerners firsthand. yourself were once traveling down that road. how concerned are you about what you're seeing here on the ground and the potential for a lot of these foreign fighters to end up going back to europe, going back to the united states? >> well, anderson, i agree with

fran. i am very concerned. i think everyone here in europe in terms of the security services are very concerned. we have anything up to roughly 400 british born and raised citizens fighting abroad in syria and the surrounding area at this moment in time. we have official estimates about 700 from france. and those numbers reach into the thousands across europe there is a serious issue with the numbers that have gone compared to the proportion of muslims that are in these countries. but there is a second issue. and that second issue is that we're talking about a group, the majority of foreign fighters by the way have joined isis. so we're talking about a group that is too extreme even for al qaeda. >> it's also interesting, fran, you talked about the american from florida who recently took part in a suicide attack in syria, the first american to die in a suicide attack, was a somali american who blew himself up in somalia several years ago. how well does u.s. intelligence actually track, or are they able to track these americans, these

westerners as they go to fight, fran? >> very difficult, anderson. and this is really their greatest challenge. you know, there have been at least two recent meetings of the intelligence community and its allies around the world to seek their help in assistance. john brennan hosted a meeting of eight to ten intelligence service heads here in the united states, and then just last month, mohammed bin nia hosted a meeting of the intelligence service heads in riyadh, saudi arabia to talk about the difficulty and the cooperation in tracking them. what happens is often these guys use false documents. they use nom de guerres of war names, not their true names. so it's very difficult. u.s. intelligence alone can't do it. so they have fought the help of their intelligence al lie, especially in the arab world who are closer to the problem and can provide assistance in doing this tracking. but very, very difficult. >> it's also difficult in many cases, especially from europe

they're traveling to turkey, traveling to jordan, other places, and then crossing over. it's not like they're taking direct flights to isis-controlled areas. maajid, the question becomes what does the west do about this? >> we're in an unprecedented situation and i believe we're woefully unprepared. more foreign fight verse gone to syria than ever went from europe that is, than ever went to afghanistan. and we have all heard of the afghan blowback. we're not prepared for the syria blowback. i don't think enough is being done on a civilian level on government policy to tackle this problem there needs to be a coherent strategy european wide and speaking from london uk wide that doesn't go far enough right now. i don't advocate arrest all returning fighters, but what i do say is there needs to be a look at deradicalization programs and stemming the flow in origin by getting to these youngsters before they decide to leave this country, and discussing with them that they're about to join a civil

war there is no glorious jihad awaiting them. >> fran townsend, maajid nawaz, thank you both for being on. >> thank you. up next, the mayor of london says former british prime 3 minister tony blair has, quote, finally gone mad with his claims that the 2003 invasion of iraq is not the reason for the chaos in the country right now. is mr. blair rewriting history? i'll ask tony blair ahead. [male vo] inside this bag exists

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you drive with iraqi military on patrol, you realize very quickly why they have become a prime target along with military police insurgents. they're much more aye accessible. they don't have armored humvees like americans too. they're driving around in pickup trucks. they totally exposed. . that was from baqubah in 2005 when we were there. that's the city that saw heavy fighting today between iraqi security force and isis forces. former british prime minister tony blair has taken a lot of heat for his comments about the current situation here in iraq. critics suggesting he is trying to rewrite history. over the weekend blair said that the allied invasion of iraq in 2003 was in no way responsible for what is happening now, that there would still be a major problem in iraq even if saddam hussein hadn't been toppled, and it's a mix of world religion and

politics. in the telegraph, boris johnson calls that argument, quote, bonkers and writes that blair should, quote, put a sock in it. or accept the reality of the disaster he helped engineer. i spoke with former prime minister tony blair today. >> mr. prime minister, you have come under enormous criticism just in the past day for a comment laying blame for the current crisis here in iraq on the war in syria and the west response to it or failure to respond to it, and also by the failure of the maliki government in iraq to overcomsectarian impulses. does the occupation of iraq, however, by the united states and the united kingdom under your leadership not also bear some responsibility? after all, al qaeda wasn't here in iraq until that occupation. >> sure. just so that i'm absolutely clear about this, my purpose is not to lay blame on anybody. my purpose is to draw attention to the nature of the challenge that we face in this region. and the need to do something about it.

and so, of course, having removed the saddam government back in 2003, that's got implications and consequences for iraq today. but it's also important to realize two very important things. the first is that this group, isis, basically rebuilt themselves, rearmed. they launched their attack on iraq from syria. so what our intervention in iraq shows is how difficult intervention is. what events in syria show is how difficult nonintervention. that's my first point. when you take account of what we used to call the arab spring that began in 2011 and have swept governments from power, what you see is whatever had happened in 2003, we were going to face this major challenge today. and my point is very, very clear therefore. it's we've got to understand one, that this challenge is complex. it's long-term. this is a generational struggle.

and even if we want to, and our public opinions want to, we can't disengage from it. we're going to have to try and deal with it. >> do we know how to properly engage, however? given how wrong the u.s. and uk were in the run-up to the war, wrong about presence of wmd, wrong about saddam working with al qaeda, and given our failure to predict and plan for an insurgency here after the occupation, what makes you so sure that now you've got the right prescription for what needs to be done here about the current crisis? >> well, look, it's important for a start that we do learn the lessons, the actual lessons of what happened. what happened was that saddam was removed reasonably quickly, within a few months. but then what shaped you've got this sectarian fight where internal dissidents combined with external forces to try and overwhelm the wishes of the majority of people. >> doesn't history show that unless a regime, though, is willing to make changes itself,

no outside power can intervene and really do it for them? you look at what happened in south vietnam. unless that regime had actually been willing to stop being corrupt or actually meet the needs of its people, no amount of western involvement would have helped. you write about nuri al maliki. i mean, the sectarianism of his government, you write that he snuffed out the opportunity to build a cohesive iraq. we had more than 150,000 troops here, and we could barely get him to reach out to sunnis, reach out to kurds. do you believe he is capable and willing to do that now? >> well, i hope so, because that's essential for iraq. but you make a really good point here. it's just important to stay for a moment on it. we should never forget that in afghanistan and iraq, even today a majority of people want the freedom to bring up their family in peace, want stability, are happy to get on with their

neighbors. this is an extremism that is a significant minority. it's not a tiny minority, i'm afraid, it's a significant minority. it's often financed and armed from abroad. these foreign fighters in this organization, they come from everywhere, including by the way the uk. so when we say is it impossible for outsiders to come and help and stabilize the country, when i intervened in kosovo, yes, it was. so what's the difference between kosovo and iraq or afghanistan? or syria or libya? the difference lies in the presence of this religiously based extremism. >> but again, i go back to the question. nuri al maliki actually capable of doing the kind of political work, which as you say is essential? without that, the u.s., the uk, the west is seen as intervening against sunnis, even if it's extremist. many in this part of the world

will see it as u.s. intervening against sunnis in syria, and here in iraq because there are sunni groups which are now aligned with isis and some of these other actors without real movement by nuri al maliki. i mean you know this man. he capable of doing that without 150,000 u.s. troops here on the ground? >> i don't know. but what i do know is that if he is not capable of doing that, that it's essential that a government is constructed that is capable of doing that. >> prime minister blair, i appreciate your time today. thank you very much. >> thanks very much, anderson. up next tonight, we're going to show you the damage of the deadly tornadoes left in the wake in nebraska, one town nearly demolished. replace your laptop?

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susan hendricks joins us. susan? >> that rare double tornado that slammed nebraska wiped out this town's business district, reduced dozens of homes to rubble. 16 others were critically injured. well, an army spokesperson says sergeant bowe bergdahl is gradually being provided media coverage about his ordeal. as you know, his story has sparked bitter controversy. we also learned bergdahl has had no visitors at the army hospital in san antonio where he is recovering. and art experts have long suspected there is a painting hidden behind one of picasso's first masterpieces, the blue room. now infrared technology has finally revealed what it is. it's a portrait of a man with a

beard resting his face on his hand. it was found behind that. it took that long. anderson? >> susan, thanks very much that does it for us. coming up next, cnn spotlight, "o.j.: where are they now? if it does not fit, you must acquit. >> it was a trial that transfixed the nation. >> the eulogies in some murder case was the first true reality show. >> a real-life soap opera with a cast of characters who became household names. >> i heard a thumping noise. my life changed overnight. >> the witnesses, the prosecution, the dream team. what are they doing 20 years later? >> once i left the d.a. that's it. people send me e-mails today. >> the families of the victims. 10g spots simpson in a parking lot? >> i had my foot on the panel