and really it's unclear what the u.s. can do at this point. certainly just urging calm. >> thanks very much. remember you can always follow what's going on on twitter. tweet me r or tweet the show. please be sure to join us tomorrow. watch us live or dvr the show. thanks very much for watching. i'm wolf blitzer. now let's step into "the crossfir crossfire." president obama is taking a brief time out from his busy fundraising schedule to focus on the border crisis. >> moat republicans and democrats can't focus on the name calling. the debate starts right now. tonight on "crossfire", the crisis at the border. are children suffering as washington plays politics? >> congress just said no to fixing our broken immigration system. >> so cruel. >> on the left, van jones, on

the right, an illinois democrat and representative jim brooiden stien. what happens to the children? plus the outrage of the day. tonight on "crossfire." welcome to "crossfire." >> tonight two members of congress. we are standing by for president obama to speak. he will be coming out of a meeting with texas governor rick perry about the children's crisis at the border and we'll bring the president's statement to you live. this crisis is obama's katrina. that's how one democratic congressman is referring to this crisis. obama is on a fundraising trip filled with pool, beer and glad handing. so in an effort to meeting with the kids at the center of the crisis, this is the photo op we all get instead.

it's inexcusable that obama is not at the border, the epicenter of this disaster. van, you worked at the white house. what's the president thinking? >> well, first of all, i wish he had gone there, but i think we all know had he gone, you would be sitting here saying he's wasting money, it's a big photo op. >> it's a useful photo op. >> we're going to have a big fight tonight. i'm happy to welcome two great congress people. welcome to both of you. now listen, this has gotten. so politicized and hyped up. at the bottom line, we're talking about kids. most republicans want to take these young people, put them in a plane, a boat a car and just dump them back where they just came from. you talk about honduras, the murder capital of the world. >> hold on one second. you mentioned honduras. i spent a lot of time in central

america. i was a navy pilot. i was there just two years ago doing trafficking operations. i can tell you very clearly crime and poverty were bad then. crime and poverty are bad now. >> so you think that the kids decided to leave just because -- >> no, crime and poverty were bad four years ago. there's a difference. the difference is now we still have an open southern border, 44% under operational control. this is a gao report, 44% under operational control. you can't tell me it's secure while children are streaming across the border. i want to finish my point. crime is not worse. the only difference is we have the president of the united states and members of congress and folks in the media saying we need to get them here and turn them into citizens. that's what's creating this crisis. >> do you agree with that? >> i don't. i think he's absolutely incorrect on the law, number

one. let's establish what the law is. we passed the law when we created homeland security and it said that unaccompanied minor when is they arrive in the united states, are within 72 hours to be released by the border patrol. and handed over to the refugee division. that's the law. and they are supposed to be put in the least restrictive. that happened when there were calmer times. when reasonable people sat around the table and said this is how we should treat children. look, that's not only 2002. in 2008 we passed an antitrafficking law. i got to tell you, michele bachmann voted for it. mr. gomer from texas who thinks every immigrant that comes here -- if i could just finish. even steve king who talks about using electricity and cattle prods on immigrants to keep control voted for it. it's the law of the land. what the president is doing is

following the law of the land. it's a good law. >> but the act was in acted in 2008 and in three years, 2008 to 2011, we processed about 15,000 unaccompanied minors. what happened do you think in 2012 that led to the spike that we're seeing now currently 52,000 unaccompanied minors expecting hundreds of thousands more? how do you explain that? >> here's how i explain it. number one, you have a broken immigration system. >> we have had that for quite some time. >> if you want me to explain it, i will. honduras is the murder capital of the world. we can gloss over it. it's more dangerous to be there than in kabul. >> it was more dangerous five years ago and six years ago and seven years ago. >> i'm going to finish my thought here. it's the murder capital of the world. they are only coming from three

countries. so answer your own question. why aren't they coming from nicaragua, new mexico, costa rica, why aren't they coming from anywhere else? they didn't get the note they weren't supposed to come. i think unfortunately part of -- let me just say this. when my friend says that you can just come here and receive american citizenship, i'm going it tell you something. the drug traffickers, the drug cartels, they are taking note of that and they are exploiting because that's what they do. human struggling. >> they have gotten that sense from folks that are saying that. >> you said if you arrive, there's a welcome mat to the united states. >> that's never been my message. >> one at a time. >> that's been your message on your side of the aisle. >> i never said that. >> what i would say is you're

talking about following the law. in 2006 the secure fence act was passed. it required the president to have 100% operational control of the southern border. the gao says he only has operational control of 44%. the president needs to follow the law and secure the southern border. an open border and the idea, i'm not saying who is saying it it, the idea in central america is if you come here, you get to stay. that's not my idea. that's an idea of officials in central america. we have to deal with that. >> this is what i get confused about. i feel like we're living in two different countries. when i talk to people concerned about what's going on on the ground, they call obama the deport deporter in chief. under george bush we had a 3 million person increase. now we have a net decrease. why do republicans keep hammering on this idea that somehow we have an open border when the numbers don't bare that

out? we have a new refugee crisis on top of massive deportations. >> are you suggesting after everything you've seen, you're suggesting that the southern border is secure which is required by law? >> can i say one thing? we have never had more border patrol agents than we do today. the president is asking for additional. you know how you secure the border? fix the immigration system. >> you're pleased with the level of border security? >> here's what i'm telling you. is that the children are handing themselves over -- >> they are not handing themselves over. >> yes, they are. >> we are going to cut back. hold on. we are going to come back. when we do, we're still waiting for president obama to finish his meeting with rick perry. first, here's our quiz. when was the last time republicans and democrats came

together to actually pass an immigration reform bill? i'm going to give you the answer when we get back. sea captain: there's a narratorstorm cominhe storm narrator: that whipped through the turbine which poured... surplus energy into the plant which generously lowered its price and tipped off the house which used all that energy to stay warm through the storm. chipmunk: there's a bad storm comin! narrator: the internet of everything is changing how energy works. is your network ready?"

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out of here, dump them back into terror zones, send them back to murder capitals and never have to think about these kids ever again. wow, is that who we are as a country now? the statue of liberty must be weeping every single night. here's the answer to our quiz. congress has not come together to pass immigration reform bill since 1986. tonight we have two guys that might be able to do something about that. congressman gutierrez and jim bridenstein. i don't understand why we haven't democrats more passionate about their right to stay here. when you're talking about murder and rape, but into every country in that region and they say i want to get to america, they are not saying they want to go to china, they want to come here. you hear the white house saying, don't worry, we're going to get

rid of these people. >> it does bother me. i wish the president of the united states were going down and visiting the children and visiting the site tonight. if i were on vacation in puerto rico reek and my wife's aunt was in the hospital and i didn't go sew here, i think the family may say you made a poor choice. it is important that he do that. having said that, part of the issue that we have here is the demographic about the children and what rights they do and don't have and what the laws of the united states have. my friends in the republican kau cass keep saying we won't do immigration reform because we don't trust the president to enforce the law. yet when he enforces the law by releasing the children within 72 hours, to their parents in many occasions and saying, the law of the united states -- >> the law requires a secure southern border.

operational control over 100%. >> i want to talk about this for a second. >> why don't you want to talk about the borderer? >> i have introduced legislation well before you came to the congress of the united states with john mccain in 2003 that secured the border. >> we have 30 minutes and we're expecting the president so i want to get in as much as we can. let me push on the logistics. i would take every one of these kids in. this is a terrible tragedy. logistically, i'm not quite sure how we do that and when we shut the faucet off. is this the new normal? do we open the border? how do we handle that? >> here's how we handle that. number one, we follow the law. i'm trying to answer the question. >> real quick. >> that's the first thing. but when people go on tv and say

that they should just simply all be deported and understanding that that is a violation, if the president of the united states on the one hand is the person that doesn't enforce the law and then -- >> congressman, what do we do with the 52,000 children that are here and the thousands more who are expected? >> here's what we do. we give them their day in court because that's the law of the land. if you don't, you have to change the law. >> we switched the mission. it's countere lis live sit trafficking operations. they are trafficking children. they are trafficking children in northern mexico. they take them to northern mexico because that's the easiest access into the united states. there are 100,000 dead bodies where you have gangs killing gangs, they are also killing judges, police officers, politicians and it's all because we have an easy access point

into the united states of america. you can't deny that. >> so hold on a second. you're saying that the only reason that there's trafficking going on is because our borders -- >> i'm not say iing it's the on reason. we can deny access and that solves a lot of the drug trafficking. >> would you vote for the senate bill that doubles border security if you had the opportunity right now, speaker ba boehner will not let you take a vote. if you had a chance to vote tonight for the senate bill? >> i would vote against it and here's why. it gives the secretary of homeland security to waive the requirements and at the time janet napolitano was telling us the border is secure. you cannot say the border is secure when you have children streaming across it. >> what does the president plan to do with the $4 billion he's asked for? >> we're going to ask the president. i have some serious questions. i think first of all, i'm an american. i'm proud to have been born in this country. i say keep the children safe. that's the law of the land.

i'm going to keep coming back to that because if we say we can't trust the president to enforce the law and then when he does, he denies it. he needs the money to enforce the law. if you want to change the law around how -- >> are you going to vote for the money? >> i will vote for the money under these conditions. as long as it doesn't -- how would i u say, weaken the right that the children have to their day in court because some of them we may just return them to death. >> any conditions under which you would vote for $4 billion? >> the $4 billion doesn't solve the problem. . we have to do two thing pchs we need to secure the southern border and we need to articulate to folks in central america if you come here you're probably not going to come in. if you make it, you're not going to stay. if we articulate that -- >> the $4 billion is to try to more quickly process the young people through. it makes good sense to me. you have more young people, you

need more money it process them through. this border thing, can you be specific? double i doubling the number is not enough, the fact that we have more than we have, the fact we're deporting more, what specifically would you call a secure at every hundred feet, every hundred yards? >> we want to have control over our border. there are parts of the united states we have that. a perfect example. duncan hunter from san diego had a great op-ed piece that specifically said in his area of the country they put in a double fence and with it they have sensors and rapid teams they can deploy to anybody that breaks in. they had a decrease of 90% of illegal immigration at that point. interestingly, there are other places in the country the border is wide open and that's where they're going. we've got to secure the southern border. >> the congressman sounds a little disappointed in what the president's done so far.

what could he say tonight that would make you a little bit more confident in his leadership ability? >> here's what i think the president should say tonight. we have laws on the books about how america treats refugees when they come to our borders. i think he should say i'm going to protect, i'm going to uphold those laws. i think he should wrap himself around those children say he's going to froekt those children. you know what? america's a lot more generous and a lot bigger and broader and more loving than i think we give her credit for. >> do you thing the exhortations on both sides are too high that republicans probably have unreasonable demands and so do democrats? >> here's the thing. as long as my colleagues continue to talk, the border and controlling the part is part of a comprehensive immigration plan. if you don't do the other parts -- let me give you a suggestion of how you stop people from coming here. you make sure when they go to get employment, they must be verified by a federal system. if they do that, then they can't

work. >> we're standing by for the president. i want you at home to weigh in on today's fireback question. should president obama visit the kids at the border when he's in texas. we'll have results after the break. we have the outrage of the day and van is outraged at a lot of people but you'll never believe who he's prud of. body. it hugs you. [jeffery] i don't have to think about how to get comfortable anymore. [evie] this zips off so i can wash it-yes, please. [robert]dude,tempur-pedic is killing it. [kevin] no more tossin' and turnin', trying to find a comfortable spot in bed. [christi] it's really cool to the touch. [chelsea] my tempur-pedic... cuddles better than my husband does. but,that's just between you and me. [announcer] visit your local retailer and feel the tempur-pedic difference for yourself. i need my actual credit report.

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welcome back to "crossfire." we're awaiting president obama out of that immigration meeting. let's go to jake tapper now. jake? >> s.e., we've been waiting for president obama. as you know he'sing meeting with governor of texas rick perry who after some give and take finally decided he would meet president obama at the airport when he arrived at dallas' love field earlier today. they're behind closed doors, meeting with a buchbl of local officials about this tremendous heartbreaking humanitarian crisis as the administration refers to it.

52,000 undocumented children who have crossed the border in the last few months. and s.e. and van, i know you've been talking about it on "crossfire." van you've expressed some chagrin at the fact that democrats and republicans seem to all be talking about sending the kids back and not taking them into this country. >> well, i think for me, that's been a big disappointment. in our country we have a very long tradition going back to world war ii when dealing with refugees -- these are not people coming here to get a job at mcdonald's. if you're a refugee you get your day in court we figure out how to help you. we don't have this idea you don't belong here. we're going to throw you back over the border. so my concern is that we've somehow gotten so politicized and so polarized that now we can't even look at children fleeing terror with an open heart. that's my concern. democrats are guilty of it, too. >> one of the reasons why this

crisis exists has to do with a law in 2008 signed by president bush which treated undocumented children who came into this country differently than those from canada or mexico who would be presumably sent back immediately allowing them to have hearings. sometimes those hearings take up to two years if they happen at all. we now have word from our reporter on capitol hill, dierdre walsh, that texas senator john cornyn, who is a republican and texas congressman henry cuellar who is a democrat, are teaming up to reverse that 2008 law so that it would be easier to send these kids back immediately. >> yes. the wilberforce act of 2007. we were processing those at the border, but something happened,

2012, 2013 and those numbers started spike iing. so republicans are starting to ask why. what do you think the president's tone is going to be in the press conference? we saw him in denver earlier on this trip sort of scolding congress. what do you expect from him tonight? >> it's going to be a difficult line for him to walk because obviously the administration has conveyed time and time again these kids cannot stay here. at least the vast majority of them even with the law, the 2008 law that allowed hem to stay here longer if they were fleeing from countries like honduras and guatemala where they may be at risk. but at the same time he needs to express a humanitarian side that he likes to show. he needs to express sympathy and empathy with the kids in the camp. if i can ask congressman

gutierrez, if congressman cuellar's bill to reverse that 2008 law, which would mandate basically that undocumented children are treated from guatemala and honduras and el salvador are treated the same way undocumented children from mexico are and are sent back immediately to their country of origin, would you support that legislation sponsored by a fellow democrat? >> no, i would not support that legislation. a long established position, you have the fluoresce reynos decision that begins homeland security in 2008. it's the law of the land. reasonable people in reasonable times put that law. >> i have to hand it over. erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. >> next breaking news, the president confronts the border crisis in texas. we are waiting for the president of the united states to be speaking live in any second. plus all eyes