this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. divided we stand. it seems everything is political these days and america is more divided than ever. left versus right, black versus white, gay versus straight. whose side are you on? well, you'll see it on the border. that's where you'll see 52,000 undocumented children have crossed illegally, and nobody seems to know what to do about them. listen to a frustrated president obama. >> if i sponsored a bill declaring apple pie american, it might fall victim to partisan politics. as i indicated to governor perry, he suggested well, maybe you just need to go ahead and

act, and that might convince republicans that they should go ahead and pass the supplemental. and i had to remind him, i'm getting sued right now by mr. boehner right now for going ahead and acting instead of going through congress. well, here is a good test case. >> well, you know where else you see that same divide? out of all places on daytime tv where battle lines are being drawn over at "the view." will rosie o'donnell return? liberal. will sarah palin get a seat at the table? conservative. and will the whole thing turn into a scream fest? we'll talk exclusively with the woman who knows "the view" better than just about anyone. guess who it is? plus, the mom who drove her mercedes to pick up her food stamps. but this story doesn't go exactly the way you might think. she is going to be here to explain to us. and as always, we want to know what you think about all this. make sure you tweet us using the #askdon. we're going get to the debate on the border.

but first, the great divide. nischelle turner has that. >> daytime tv's happy hour always starts right now on "the view." >> reporter: but things don't seem too happy behind the scenes at "the view" these days. barbara walters officially retires from the show in may. then two more hosts say they're leaving. new hire jenny mccarthy -- >> i have taken a new job. >> reporter: and seventh season veteran panelist sherri shepherd. >> it is true i'm leaving after the season. >> reporter: maybe the biggest change is how it's evolving. "the view" more than ever seems to reflect the bitter political divide in this country. like a lot of american television in politics, the voices got louder, the opinions harsher, and the debate more in your face, like elisabeth hasselbeck and rosie o'donnell's frequent feuds. >> number one, i sit here every single day. >> reporter: now reports the show may hire cultural and political lightning rod rosie o'donnell again.

>> i think it's clearly a matter of wanting to see a difference of opinion. if you have a panel in any television show that all agrees with one another, th doesn't ma for great television. >> reporter: elisabeth hasselbeck isn't thrilled with the idea of rosy returning. >> here comes into the "the view" the very woman who spit in the face of our military and stood by here and had civil debates for the time that she was there. >> reporter: but hasselbeck may be more supportive of another possible contender, fellow republican sarah palin. >> the ones that really jumped out as potentials were rosie, obviously, because she has done it before, and then sarah palin. i mean, there is somebody who certainly has a very strong audience who she could carry with her. i love the idea of wanda sikes coming on. i also like kathy griffith and ross matthews. i love him. >> reporter: but for now, even

barbara admits she doesn't have the right arranges i don't know. i'm not sure. >> reporter: no? >> i know "the view" will continue. i don't think we have a new direction yet. i think we have a little time to find it. >> reporter: nischelle turner, cnn, new york. >> all right. so whatever happens at "the view," it is now tv history. and nothing says you have made it like seeing yourself on "saturday night live." i want you to take a look at this. >> scaffolding under my clothes. >>, no stop it. stop it. you look great. >> you know what i always say? who cares. >> joining me now, a woman who had a seat at the table of "the view" for 16 years is joy behar. she joins me here exclusively. let me tell your story. you were one of the original panelists on the "the view" when it premiered. 16 years you would be retiring show. >> i did not retire prirks the show. >> yes. you know this is cnn. we have to talk about news. you heard what the president said about the border crisis.

>> yeah. >> put a bill there to say apple pie is american, there would be some opposition to that. >> yes. >> what do you make of it? >> what do i make of it? >> that's kind of what is playing out in the country. >> well, you know, you to look at his whole time in the white house and wonder why he is constantly being obstructed? why? even after bill clinton was impeached, they still went along with his scenario. when george bush invaded iraq under false pretenses, they didn't know it, probably, but the democrats went along with that. why can't they give this guy a break? what is that about, do you think? hmm? >> i'll let you answer that. let's get right to it, the headlines. rosy is coming back. and the whole reason we're doing this is because "the view" is a microcosm of what is happening in society now. >> is it? >> yeah. you know. with rosy and elisabeth. >> that picture of whoopi, it's like a nancy grace segment. where are they? let's put out an amber alert. >> one of those was you. but who is it going to be now?

what do you make of that, rosy coming back? remember the split screen with elisabeth and them. >> i was in the middle of that. what do i make of her coming back? >> yeah. >> well, they thrive on ratings. she'll probably bring ratings. she is very edgy. a certain amount of danger to rosy. and i think they're looking to really supe up the show that way. >> so you were in the middle of that? >> yes. >> okay. elisabeth called into fox the other day where she works, and she wasn't really thrilled about the news. and she was calling in from her vacation when she heard. let's listen to this and then we'll talk about it. >> here in comes to "the view" the very woman who spit in the face of our military, spit in the face of her own network, and really, in the face of a person who stood by her and had civilized debates for the time that she was there. coming back with a bunch of control ready to regain a seat at the "the view" table. not surprising, i think this has been in the works for a long

time. >> you sat beside her for years. what did you think about it? >> i thought that was really kind of below the belt to say she spits in the face of the military. i would like elisabeth to explain herself, really. what does she mean by that? and isn't it kind of a nasty thing to say about somebody who basically is a good person? say what you want about rosie o'donnell, she is a very generous person. she has a million kids. she is alwaysress skewing someone. she has more kids than mrs. duggar. her son is at the citadel. what more does she want? >> but they had beef, obviously. >> but to say she spits in the face of the military. that's a dangerous thing to say about somebody. first of all, it's not prove. i would like her to prove it. goes on fox. everything is fiction on fox anyway. what am i talking about? >> but you want her to explain that. why? >> i want her to explain it. it's a hate-filled remark. and she should explain it. >> when conversations like that happen on "the view," right,

when elisabeth would say things like that to rosy, wasn't it the best ratings they had? do you think they're trying to go back to that? >> here is the thing, don. when i took on the job in the beginning, we were me, starr jones, meredith vieira and debbie matenopoulos who aged out after a year. whatever. we kind of got along there was chemistry. the way we got the show is we were put in a room and see what would gel, and it gelled. and we kind of liked each other. and we bantered around. now they seem to like people to fight with each other and not like each other. because that might happen again. if they want to put conservatives and liberals again against each other, i don't know. >> it's interesting. because "the view" you have to give to it barbara walters. "the view" was an original idea with all women. it went gangbusters for a long time. now every show on television has a "view." the show like "the talk" is

doing almost as well "the view" and catching up. >> it is not like "the view." >> it was originally. >> no, no, no. "the talk" is more planned, i believe. "the view" is totally spontaneous. nobody knows what we're going say when we get out there. nobody tells what's to say. that's the beauty of "the view." it's a spontaneous show. the other shows are more structured. >> but do you think "the view" has -- do you think should it go back to that kind of fighting or has it run its course? >> i think people like to see women getting along with each other. when they start to fight with each other too much, i think it becomes a little uncomfortable. >> did you think it was going to be so political when you join "the view"? >> no. it wasn't about that in the beginning. it was about camaraderie. we talked about women's issues. we did some serious subjects and others. but then when obama was rung against mccain, it became very political and very acrimonious. that was when -- you know, he brings in sarah palin, you're going have fights. kirks we show the fight between osi and elisabeth. >> oh, again? >> yeah, let's show it.

>> honest. what is -- >> no commercial in this show? >> i'll tell you what is cowardly. no. no asking a reor the cal question that you never answer yourself that is cowardice. >> who is directing this show. let's go to commercial. let's go to commercial. >> that was a long time. >> i'm a natural moderator. >> they did sit on that, though, right? was that purposely? >> you mean the director? >> yeah. >> i don't know what was in his mind. they did a split screen which i think rosy was not happy about. they did a split screen. >> what do you think -- >> we're still -- it's not the same show. the show changed when meredith and starr left. it became a different show. because when they were there, it was like, you know, four of us

two conservative, two liberals with a panel that reflects american politics. does it at the moment? >> no, i'm not sure that "the view" needs to be as political as it is at all, because if you're actually reflecting what american women tell pollsters they care most about, politics is way down on the list. and i like -- i love the show. i love the commentary. i love the back and forth. but everybody on the show is not -- is kind of unique, not very common in terms of what it is we think about and what it is the kind of industries that we work in. and so, you know, when women tell people what really concerns them, what they want to hear information about, gather some education on, it's issues like health care and education. it's not necessarily who said what in what political party. >> would you like to be on, kelly? would you like to talk? >> sure, absolutely. >> they're looking for a blond, i'm sure. >> no no, no, i think they're really not looking for a real conservative. i've seen the list, and i think they're looking for sort of a passing republican, not a true

conservative. >> but there are reports that sarah palin may be throwing her hat in the ring. >> she is publicly campaigning for it. but as a serious matter you don't want a show that is really "the view" only. you want a show that expresses the views. >> does it need attention, though, in order for it to draw the numbers, jim moret? >> i'm sorry, that's the irony to me, because women are all about negotiation and compromise. that's the irony. >> jim? >> i think it needs to be exciting to watch. i think rosy -- joy hit it right on the mark. people watch rosy because they want to know what is she going to say tomorrow. frankly, joy, i miss you on the show. >> thank you, jim. >> i really do. i think that you've got in whoopi a very strong opinionated woman. in rosy, a strong opinionated woman. sometimes they're going to clash. but, you know, joy talked about something that has been lacking lately, and that's this mutual respect. i'm hope thanksgiving can get back to that. you can banter, but still like each other. >> yeah. >> and you can still have fun. and i don't think you need to watch a battle every day. >> lz, and by the way, i do miss you on the show as well. but go ahead, lz, before i ask

your question. >> you didn't have to say that. >> i say it like it is. >> we all miss you, joy. we all miss you on the show. >> absolutely. >> i think the purpose really has to be defined as who is going to be on the panel. and what i mean by that is the purpose to strictly entertain? is the purpose now to inform, to reflect the audience or is the purpose now to reflect america? those are four different purposes in my opinion. and as they cast the show. >> a lot of the research show that women did get their news from us. >> right. >> they watched the show and got a sense of what was happening in the world from us. >> women are huge deciding voting bloc when it comes to elections, especially the presidential election. and now should it reflect, should there be a liberal shore, there be a conservative? should is there be a man "the view"? >>. no. >> all of those things. >> yes, yes, i'm a man. i'll do it. i'll do it. >> first of all, we listen to men all day and all night on every other channel. we see them constantly on every place.

so the women want to hear women talk. we're interested in each other's conversations. >> but joy, you said that's where women got their news. and i know you're right statistically speaking. but in fairness, a lot of it as is a lot of punditry today, it's not news, it's opinion. and it becomes very difficult for the average consumer to distinguish between the two. especially if they turn on the tv five a week and see comfortable, familiar faces who do make them laugh, who do tell them something they didn't know. >> yeah. >> and i think that's really -- it's a little bit dangerous. frankly, when i come on, it's republican polls for somebody else, democratic strategist. but we don't always know every ax that everybody is grinding out there when it's under the guise of entertainment. thing should be a distinction between true hard news and opinion. >> that's not "the view's" role. >> it nevers represents itself as a news show, never. there. >> are rumors about add manning, what have you. listen, i'm a man that would be great. many people would like to have that job.

i'm not sure a man should be there. it's great to go in and hang out with once in a while. >> it's a different show. >> do you think it's different if it's a gay man? does that matter? >> no. >> i think first of all, it goes back to what i said before. what would be the new purpose of the new cast. we know that when "the view" start, the number of men who were stay at home dads who worked from home is much lower than what it is today. are you trying to perhaps appeal to that group of people who may tune in and watch the show. >> let's be honest. l.z., you watch it, jim moret watches the show as well. would it make you want to watch it more if a man is on that show? i'm not so sure. >> not the demographics, i think. i think they're only interested in women. >> it's about the chemistry. >> no, i'm sorry to say that but that's what happens with those shows. >> you really believe that? >> i don't really think that they're interested in men watching that much. i think they want women to watch it. because that was the number one always got was women 18 to 49. that's what they were interested in. >> ken, do you think "the view"

can be saved? >> that's an important distinction. >> i think it can be saved. i think they have to go back to the drawing board. the way we were hired in the first place. we were thrown in to a room together. the group that had the most chemistry and that seemed to be smart, that's the group that got the job in the first place. do it like that. they keep doing it piecemeal. >> jim, the reason i'm doing this is i think all of us need to sit around the table the way "the view" does and hash things out, including republicans, democrats, president, and everyone. do you think "the view" can be saved a la can the country be saved as well? >> well, i don't know. >> that's a lot of onus to put on "the view," right? >> my god, just a little daytime show. >> and yes, can it be saved? of course i do, because let's face it? what are we doing right now? we're talking about "the view." it's relevant again. why? because rosy is being thrust into the mix. people want to know what she is going to do, how is she going to interact with whoopi, who else is coming on board. and by the way, joy, i think that a metrosexual guy like me would be great sitting next to

you. >> they're all auditioning tonight. >> we love them as guests. >> don has auditioned. so i have to audition too. >> it's the new you right here. take us out, don. >> i like it when men are there because it gives you a it will flirtatious thing with men. >> the men love it. >> but i like that kind of show. "the view" itself is a woman's show. >> as a professional market researcher, what -- nobody asked me for my advice on "the view," but one piece of advice i might give is scrap the 18 to 49 only, because you've got women living into their 80s and 90s now. the idea that 49 is maybe i'm too close. >> you better talk to palmolive and procter & gamble. >> but in fairness, look who they attract as their hosts. their hosts are not in that demographic because they want smart women who have accomplished things to talk. >> l.z., can "the view" be save and should it? >> first of all, i don't think it's dying. i think it's changing. and we should not make it to one. >> right. >> just because something is

going through changes doesn't mean it necessarily needs to be resuscitated. >> right. i went through my changes. i didn't need to be resuscitated. >> well that -- we're not so sure about that. but the thing is this numbers are going down, right. the numbers have not been great. the talk is going to be in the same time slot. >> they're not the same show, though. "the talk" and "the view" are not the same show. as somebody in that demographic, i'll tell you. >> all right. thank you, guys. we come right back. >> maybe we should have "the view" from the hebrew home for the aged. see, that's a show that everybody would love. >> what happened to our show that we were supposed to do today? >> our show. i already did my pitch to get back on the air. >> all right, joy. it's always a pleasure. >> you and me together, what a team. laurel and hardy together would eat their hearts out. >> thank you, jim, thank you, l.z., thank you, kelly. children at the border. what should we do about them. and later, she was looking for a better life too. she drove her mercedes-benz to

collect food stamps. but there is more to her story than you might think.

than you might think.

after taking a verbal lashing from texas, governor rick perry. here is president obama arriving in dallas and shaking perry's hand in the midst of what he calls a humanitarian crisis. thousands of children stuck in limbo and desperate to get into the united states. joining me now is cnn's rosa flores on the border. she has been reporting on this. rosa, i want to talk specifically about the unaccompanied children rossing the border. explain why all of these children are coming here now and where they're coming from.

>> well, you know, let's talk facts first. and this is information gathered from federal u.s. agencies that help these unaccompanied minors. prior to 2012, don, they would see between 7,000 to 8,000 unaccompanied minors. in 2012, that number went up to 13,000. then in 2013, to 24,000. and of course we're in the situation we are now where it could be -- it could exceed 60,000. so the big question, like you said, is why. what is driving this? the story that we keep hearing over and over again is, a, violence. and just think about it. in these countries of honduras, el salvador and guatemala, these are the hubs for the ruthless ms 13 gang. they're known as ms 13 here. they're in that area. and honduras where i was there recently, san pedro sula is

dubbed the murder capital of the world. and let's talk numbers when it comes to poverty in these countries. a quick breakdown. el salvador, 36% of the people there are in poverty. in guatemala, it's 54%. and then honduras, it's 65% of the population. so you combine all of those things together, and it's a perfect storm, don, for all of these children to leave their country and risk it all and really what they're leaving behind is not much. >> and rosa, children from central america are treated differently in this case than those from mexico, correct? explain that to us. >> yes. when it comes to unaccompanied minors from central america, a couple of other federal agencies are involved. and that's because of that 2008 law, that controversial law that i'm sure you've been talking about in your show before. but what happens is so these children get detained on the rio grande river. we're right on the river right now. and they do get processed through immigration. but then hhs gets involved.

that's health and human service. these children get a child wellness exam. they get vaccines, medication. and then the goal is really to reunite them with a family member here in the united states while they're going through their immigration proceedings. and don, let me tell you, from what i hear from my sources, that process could take between a year and a half and perhaps 18 months because of the backlog. because so many kids have been coming to the united states recently. >> rosa flores on the texas-mexico border. rose sack, thank you very much for that. so what america going to do about these border children? joining me now to go head to head on that is comedian and actor paul rodriguez, alberto cutie. and jim gilchrest, founder and president of the minutemen project. back with me is kellyanne conway, a republican strategist. paul, let me start with you. we're a nation of immigrants. look out there tonight at the statue of liberty. we have compassion for children.

why are we so divided in this country as to what to do about this problem? >> i don't think we are divided. i think america has its heart in the right place. we need to be compassionate. we need to be strong and enforce our laws. it's precisely why we should make it clear in these countries that regardless of the trauma they're obviously going through. but name me a latin american country that doesn't have poor people. we have to set laws. we have to let them know that it isn't the land of milk and honey, that life isn't easy here. my heart goes out to the parents who have to traumatize their kids to go through mexico. they must go through terrible abuse. but at the same time if we accept these children and don't repatriate them, it's only going to send out a clear signal in latin america that if you get to america you will stay here. and if you think the numbers are big now, it's hard to trust the statistics. >> people will be surprised to hear that coming from someone who is an immigrant. >> absolutely. but, you know, there are ways to

come to this country. you know. there are legal ways. look, once they're here, i'm not saying to be cruel to them or anything like that. but if we accept -- let's say we accept these children, we let them stay here in america, we give them good homes, what is this going to say to everybody else? are we prepared to be overwhelmed? because that's exactly what is going to happen. >> i want you guys to listen to the president a little earlier today. >> the problem here is not a major disagreement around the actions that could be helpful in dealing with the problem. the challenge is, is congress prepared to act to put the resources in place to get this done. another way of putting this, and i said this directly to the governor is, are folks more interested in politics or are they more interested in solving the problem? >> that is a very good question. what do you make of that, kellyanne conway? >> we're all interested in solving the problem. look, i'm going to go with democratic texas congressman

henry quayer, who has really been out in front on this on behalf of the democrats in texas. he has criticized the president. he says the president looks aloof for having a beer and playing pool with the colorado governor, john hickenlooper. >> republicans control the house. they have done nothing on immigration, kellyanne. >> well, hold on. what exactly, just sitting here right now, what is the four-point president obama plan on immigration? can anybody tell me? i doubt it. >> what is the republicans plan on immigration? that's exactly what the president -- this back and forth that we're having right now is exactly what the president said. i do have to say that i agree with him. this was a law that was put into place by former president bush when he was about to exit the office. and all of the sudden it is now president obama's problem when no one democrat or republican has done anything about it. >> and that's everybody's problem. >> he acts on his own, he gets sued. >> it's everybody's problem. you're talking about comprehensive immigration reform. i'm answering your question about crisis at the border which is nothing short of a crisis. >> the president said he wants

to pass a supplemental bill and he wants the republicans, the house republicans from texas to do it. and he wants compromise from republicans. >> i'm sure he does. but what is he going to say to people like the democratic congressman from arizona, from texas who are taking him to task, and he absolutely capitulated. >> kellyanne, you're missing the point. >> it's not about taking anyone to task. this is about working together. >> don, that's right. but what is on the table right now? in other words, what does he want? he has asked them for $3.7 billion. but what is on the table in terms the of the four-point plan? i want to hear it. you can't -- he made it about him, today. oh, if i put put a piece of legislation of apple pie they would be against it. >> were you listening to his press conference? >> i listened to the whole thing. and i'm sure he is. >> he is very conciliatory. >> i'm sure he is. >> i listened to him. he's got a point on this, on that. if they want to work together, i am willing to do it. so what gives here? jim, as a minuteman, you have seen the border first hadn't. the president didn't go to the border, despite only being about

500 miles away. he said he wasn't interested in a political theater. should he have gone or is that -- i don't understand why he should have gone. i think it's more important to do something about the problem rather than a photo op. but go ahead. circumstances that a question for me? >> that's for you, yes. >> the president did what a president usually does. he makes comments, gives his acceptable opinions of an issue. what the president did for me was what all prior presidents other than dwight eisenhower has done on this issue, and that's to give us more empty rhetoric. i don't think we have any president since eisenhower who has ever had any intention of seriously enforcing our immigration laws. case in point, ten years ago when i launched the minuteman project, i saw very little difference now in so far as

enforcing our laws internally than i did in 2004. >> but isn't that the problem, that nothing has been done for years, even though everyone says it's a political problem, that i keep pointing fingers at each other and nobody is doing anything about it? i want to get father cutie in this. >> nobody wants to talk about a fundamental issue that i always find has everything to do with what we see going on in the borders, and it's the fact that this is the result of ignoring your neighbors. our neighbors to the south is something we don't deal with in this country. we spend trillions of dollars in the middle east in a war that obviously hasn't resulted in anything positive. we're spending more money now. and we don't anything to alleviate poverty in central america. we don't do anything to alleviate poverty in mexico. so we have people coming all the time. and now we have children. and we're saying why don't we send them back. would you send children back to nazi germany? would you send children back do castro's cuba and all these dictatorships and places where children don't have the fundamental basic things that we

take for granted here every day? >> father, i understand that. i have to play devil's advocate. because there are plenty of children in this country who don't have the resources as well. >> exactly. >> of course. but what the children in our country don't have -- >> in big cities all across america. they face war zones as well. >> i agree. but you can't compare the poverty in the u.s. with the poverty in central america. and if you do that, you don't know central america. i'm sorry to tell you that. but i've been in guatemala. i've been in el salvador. i've been in nicaragua. i've been in all these countries. and i know them well. and i'm going to tell you something. when we start dealing with these countries and we begin to treat them as our neighbors, and we begin to understand who they are, instead of spending so much time on the other side of the world in cultures that that we don't even understand, that i'm going to tell you, a lot of this can be resolved. but the fact is our politicians in washington, our congress doesn't want to deal with our neighbors. >> paul, i'll give you the last word. paul, go ahead. >> look, the president i believe made a mistake by not showing up. this would have brought attention. but that's not a biggie.

what has happened is that there is a war. we're not aware of what is going on there are more people's lives have been lost with the cartel war right there in the city of juarez than there has been in the entire war in iraq. >> i got to go, paul. >> talking about people. mexico needs more attention. immigration needs attention. i blame both republicans and democrats. >> father paul cutie and jim gilchrest, kellyanne conway, i appreciate it. great conversation. stick around. we're going to talk a little bit more. i'm getting ahead of myself. when we come right back, what will politics, what will it take to put politics behind us to solve this particular issue. we'll be right back.

i thought we were done with it, but apparently we're not. back me paul rodriguez, father jim cutie, paul gilchrest and kellyanne conway. let's stop with the part politics. i want you to listen to ted cruz on fox after the president spoke. >> he doesn't have time to go see the border. he doesn't have time to see the children who are suffer:00 because of his failed policies. earlier he was playing pool, apparently playing a game of pool is a higher priority for this president than it would be to go and see the humanitarian crisis he has created. >> jim, what about, you know, i watched the president. it's unfortunate he didn't go see the children. but i agree with him, we need to work on something and get this done immediately. where is that? >> certainly the united states is not in the business of letting people die in the street, regardless of where

they're from. these kids are kids who have no idea what is happening to them. they deserve and should be medically taken care of, make sure they're medically stabilized. that they're fed, that they're housed and they're clothed and clean, et cetera. >> i understand that. >> we should as soon as possible be deported. >> i'm asking where is the cooperation that the president asked for instead of political talking points? >> from my point of view, there is only one divide between the republicans and the democrats in this issue. the democrats want to give a pathway to citizenship to the millions of illegal aliens who are here currently in violation of our laws. >> you're still not answering my question, jim. >> the republicans do not want to give that amnesty. >> maybe it's hard to answer the question because the president didn't answer it today. >> kelly? >> i didn't say the president say here is the five-part solution? can we all agree upon this? if he did, i miss that part of his press conference, and i apologize. >> maybe i'm missing something because i think what everyone --

>> well, one of the best things, the best thing for the children, the best thing for everyone is we figure out a way to do this. >> agreed, agreed. >> so what is this with the five points? >> you know what, don? i'll tell you the first one in public opinion, for 20 years, democrat republican president, over 80% of americans agreed secure the border. it's almost become an automatic response. and nobody ever has. nobody has ever done it sufficiently. well spend a ton of money down there trying to secure the border and it's clearly not there yet. but it's still a good goal. >> we're having a broader conversation about immigration, i agree with you. not necessarily about what we should do with the border, but we should have a broader conversation about immigration. that's not what i'm asking you. we're talking about these children who are pouring across the border. >> that i would love to talk about. >> the president said we need to do something. let's work together and stop playing politics here. that's what i'm asking you. >> agreed. >> i'm not asking you about reform of the entire immigration. >> okay.

>> and the question is where was that instead of political talking point? >> agreed. everybody should agree to treat them with the humanitarian and compassionate way that is the american way, period. they are victims in this. but those who truly care about the children should think long and hard about what we're doing with them. to see all the pictures, they're suffering. so we should administer to them there is no question. i don't know if they need to be medically checked, vaccinated, whatever the procedure, certainly fed and clothed. >> right. >> and then we need to decide what to do with them. i agree with paul rodriguez. i don't think we can handle the people here. >> let me just say, let's take the father's side. >> we have plenty of humanitarian organizations that can help. >> we allow these 7,000 children to stay here and grow up american and go to our schools. what do we say to the 60,000 that are going to follow them and the 150,000. can we house them all, father? do we have the whereabouts? we can't even take care of our own kids here now. >> the truth is there are plenty of church. >> let's millennium weigh in.

last word, father cutie. >> i think lots of churches, lots of humanitarian organizations in our country have already expressed an interest in helping them. i think as an american nation, we have to redede fine ourselves. i think we're going through a huge crisis of identity. this is the land of immigration. look around you. we have a mexican-american over here, irish american, african american talk, i'm a cuban-american. guess what? we're all hyphenated. so what is the big deal? why can't we continue being a welcoming nation? >> the millions, the millions that will surely follow. >> that's going to have to be it. thank you very much. but the one thing that is all, we may be african american, may be cuban-american, we're all americans. appreciate it from all of you. just ahead, a story that will surprise you. how this woman went from a comfortable middle class life to financial disaster and what she did about it, coming up. latte or au lait?

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a "washington post" article getting a whole lot of attention. it is titled "this is what happened when i drove my mercedes to pick up food stamps." the writer and her family fell on hard times, and she did in fact drive her mercedes to pick up public assistance. she is darlene cunha and she joins us now. thank you for joining us. you're a local television producer. you're college educated, in a stable relationship. within a matter of a few months, you found yourselves on government assistance. how did that happen? >> well, a lot of things happened all at once. so we were both working. you know, good enough jobs, and we had enough money for two people to live on very comfortably with room for savings. and i was pregnant at the time with my baby daughters, my twins.

and two weeks before to give birth, he lost his job. he saw a pink slip, and that was it. for that, and it wasn't half of the income he was making, more than me. so suddenly we found ourselves after having bought our house to house our twins, we found ourselves not only with less than half of our income, because i was making my maternity leave income once the girls were born, we also found ourselves facing mortgage on a house that was now worth about half what we had paid for it. >> you were upside down on your home. and a lot of people, this was in 2007-2008, around that time. and a lot of people found themselves in a similar situation. so many americans can relate to what you're saying. your article is called "what happened when i drove my mercedes to pick up food stamps." can you explain how you got into the position where you were driving your mercedes to pick up coupon, food, milk and baby

formula? i know that you said you had a sick kid, and then your husband lost his job. but you still had a mercedes. >> yeah. we did. before i go further, i really, really want to point out that i was not on food stamps. food stamps is s.n.a.p., and it is a different program. i was on women, infants and children. >> right. >> which is vouchers. it's just been a sticking point with the article, and i want people to know we were on wick, which is a much easier program to get into, less stringent. so we were able to keep both of our cars, for instance, and many other things. they didn't check us out nearly as much as they would for something who needs that form of help. which is also perfectly legitimate to need. but anyway, i was picking up the coupons, the vouchers because my girls were born at 34 weeks, and i couldn't breast-feed them because they could not latch

because they were premature. 10 i was pumping and eventually i had to supplement with formula and then switch over to formula. and at that time, formula was about $15 per one can. and i had two children to feed. and i had to feed them formula for about a year and a half. because of their premature birth and just the different dietary things that they particularly needed. most children start eating solids at 1. >> darlenea? >> yep? >> a lot of people ask, why couldn't you sell your mercedes? why didn't you and your husband sell your mercedes instead of going on assistance? >> well, what's the point of that, honestly? we had -- it was a 2003. >> the point is money. >> we would have gotten a couple of thousand dollars for it, and we would have had to buy a new car, because i was working at the time which i think is also being glossed over. after my maternity leave, i went back to work. and i needed a car to drive 90

miles one way and back the other way. and he needed a car in case there was an emergency with our kids. so to sell the mercedes, to take the time to put it up, and then take the time to get a sale and then take the time to find another car that is maybe less reliable, that is going to -- we need car payments on or we can pay totally off but it's a beater and is going to break down every two seconds and we have to pay for repairs and it's always in the shop, there is no reason to do that. so we didn't. we held on to it. >> you also say you learned that poverty is a circumstance, not a value judgment. what about the idea that in this country, hard work can lead you out of poverty? do you still believe that? >> i don't think that there are many people on assistance that are not hard workers. and i feel that that would be the main point of the piece itself. you don't get into poverty and have to rely on government assistance because you're a lazy, quote/unquote, welfare queen most of the time. these people are hardworking

american citizens. they're working two and three jobs. and when you are broke, you don't have the time to find out ways to save money. you're busy spending it on food. you can't pay your rent. and when you can't pay rent or pay for your car payment or pay for a speeding ticket, that $200 i can pay now, they can't pay it, and it turns into a thousand dollars plus other fines. >> and you're right. >> it's expensive to be poor that. >> is a perception in this country that many people who need assistance are lazy or they don't want to work. and i'm glad that you a here to share not the typical that most would think of someone who needs assistance in america. thank you, darlene. for telling your story. >> thank you. next, is lebron james closer to a career decision?

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this is cnn tonight. tomorrow, the stories you'll be

talking about tomorrow. first, we're getting late word of a deadly domestic shooting near houston. police say four children, two adults are dead and a 15-year-old was rushed to the hospital. police are locked in a standoff with the suspected gunman, who is believed to be an in-law of the adult victims. meanwhile, is tomorrow the day that nba superstar lebron james reveals his next career move? espn is reporting that james met with miami heat officials this afternoon, but has yet to meet with the cleveland cavaliers. so stay tuned. boy. what a contentious show this was. i enjoyed it. i hope you did. thanks for watching. i'm don lemon. that's it for us tonight. "ac 360" starts right now. good evening. thanks for joining us tonight. breaking news from president obama on immigration, and we'll take you to the first time to a spot on mexico's southern border so you can see how all those kids are getting here. also tonight, detectives in the cooper harris murder case. trying to recreate what that toddler went through before he