ground and worry about it later. >> reporter: the passengers spent seven hours on the island with few services, mostly hanging out no a gymnasium. when another plane finally arrived, cheering for the endz of their long, nerve-racking journey. >> a potentially deadly conclusion narrowly averted. wolf? >> tom foreman, thanks very much. that's it for me. i'm wolf blitzer live in jerusal jerusalem. cross fire starts right now. >> wolf, thank you for that. stay safe in jerusalem. meanwhi meanwhile, here in america, two republican wannabe presidential kandz dats are calling each other names. >> but they both have something the obama white house desperately lacks, real ideas. the debate starts now. >> announcer: tonight, political war hits washington. rick perry versus rand paul on iraq. >> it's a preamble to be ready

to rumble. >> announcer: and eric holder versus sarah palin. on the left, paul begala, on the right newt gingrich. in the cross fire, a democratic strategist and tim phillips a republican strategist. summer's political heat. plus, the outrage of the day. tonight on "cross fikrocross fi" >> welcome to "cross fire." i'm newt gingrich on the right. >> and i'm paul begala on the left. tonight, a pair of terrific political strategists to discuss a battle of republican heavyweights. in the right corner, senator rand paul, an eye doctor who some call an isolationist. in the far right corner, governor rick perry who is called for reinvading iraq. it worked so well the last time. senator paul has a medical degree from duke, governor perry

was on scholastic probation at texas a&m where he studied animal sciences. governor paul says perry is dead wrong. perry says in turn that senator paul seems curiously blind. seems to me they're both right. >> it's interesting because in some ways each of them has i think an important point to make. but it also striekz strikes me, we need a national debate about what's happened since 9/11. i personally believe the strategies in both parties have failed. i think the world is getting more dangerous. just look at wolf in jerusalem and then look at what's happened with isis, what the attorney general said over the weekend, he stays awake at night worrying about attacks in isiss. look at the crimea. i think it's good to have somebody serious starting a real debate. compare that to hillary clinton's three weeks of not really rich, i'm sort of rich, i'm actually poor. i can't explain how i couldn't get a mortgage.

i like what the republicans are doing better even if it mines we're arguing in the cross fire. preside let me start by asking you this, meera. in 2008 there was a genuine debate, hillary on one side, brach on the other. there was real substance. it was not some shallow thing. and the country i think had to engage in some very serious challenges. isn't it in fact healthy for us right now to begin to have a serious national security debate looking at the totality of where we are and what's going on? >> i'm always for a healthy debate. i think what's fascinating about the debate between rand paul and rick perry is just the level of schism in the republican party over these really fundamental issues. you know, it's not just they're having a debate at a high level. they're really name calling relatively early. i mean, if i said these things

about one of them, it would make news or something. but the fact they're attacking each other so early, in kind of personal terms, what i thought was fascinating about rand paul is how much he said he agreed with are president obama on iraq. i thought that really creates a problem for the extreme right who does seem to want to invade iraq again. you know, i think that lays out a big distinction. >> but it's more than just, again, scoring points. the fact is, isis is a huge problem now in the western part of iraq and in northern syria. the fact is that our policy in ukraine is in a shambles. the fact is that we -- you're seeing the policy that we had in israel is in a shambles. you've just said the mexican and guatemalan presidents hold a joint press conference to announce they were going to facilitate more young people reaching the american border in what could hardly be seen as a

friendly gesture. shouldn't the democrats also be having a serious foreign policy debate? is this policy -- are you so comfortable with the administration policy that it doesn't need to be debated? >> well, we will have a debate on foreign policy issues in a presidential campaign. what i think is notable is how early people are taking the gloves off against each other, just shows how divisive these issues are within the republican party. and i'd say, look, the world is a more dangerous place. isis is a terrible threat to the global order. but i think on an issue like crimea, u 0 crane, the russians we've seen over the last several weeks back off on the more aggressive actions and i think the sanctions are having an effect. i agree with you the world is a complicated place. that's why i agree that people who have experience in these issues, who have led on these issues will have a good discussion in the future. >> right. thanks for coming by, tim. love seeing you. let's not overhype this. this is not exactly thomas jefferson debating john adams.

these are rick perry who got put on earth to talking points and salon quality hair. i'm jealous. but what both of them are doing, it's so interesting to me, they go right for the big "r," president reagan. who is a hero to so many republicans. but if you look at the op-eds both men have written, we have a scorecard. nobody mentions abraham lincoln, probably the greatest president ever, happened to be a republican, or teddy roosevelt or franklin roosevelt or george w. bush, the most recent republican president. but 11 times rand paul mentions reagan in two op-eds, rick perry in one op-ed and a comment gets nine. who's got the claim to the reagan legacy? the truth is i think it's very mixed. reagan didn't go off willy-nilly invading countries like george w. did. who has better of the claim? rand paul? >> the truth is no one does. there will never be another

reagan and neither one of these gentlemen -- here is why i would rather have where we stand rather than what the left has. we have two guys are having a debate. they've got president obama's six-year record of failure. i'm stunned to hear that ukraine is suddenly a success? crimea was invaded, digested and now they're calling it a success? >> when you look at what is happening with this administration's foreign policy it's a failure. there's no way around it, whether it's syria, israel right now, russia and crimecrimea, or you see on the border. this is a dustup by two gentlemen running for president. >> i think the debate is frankly less than between them and president obama than them and president reagan. rick perry says he wants to put troops back into iraq. he campaigned on 0 that in 2012. didn't do very well. rand paul says the war was wrong and it is wrong now.

who's right? >> it doesn't matter. >> come on. >> it's a dustup via two running for president. >> three years from now -- >> the biggest foreign policy in what's happening right now. this is a debacle. >> come on. come on. >> i'm not going to choose between two guys running for president in three years. the public is going to look and judge 2016 based on the president's foreign policy record, and it is a disastrous record. you know that. >> i think itit what's actually interesting about the dustup between the two of them is how hard senator paul went up against george bush. he was deeply critical of him. >> hillary and barack never did that. >> i think it was interesting he was much harsher against president bush than president obama. >> let me ask you about where we are right this minute. taking, for example, the ukraine

and crimea, acan you really clam this is a successful foreign policy? >> my point is that there is challenges across the world. it is a very difficult world. it is not like it's an easy 1, 2, 3. i think the thing fascinating about senator paul's piece is he says he agrees with president obama about these issues, about the exact posture we've taken in iraq. they have the same position. in fact, he says governor perry has the same position as president obama. >> you may be hurting rand paul more than rick perry. >> i know. you're devious. >> let's look at this one more time. this is the sixth year of a presidency. we've had the four-year hillary clinton secretary of state followed by her 800 page book in which i think the only thing she xmriss italy disagrees with the president is she would have been more of an interventionist in syria. you look at all of this stuff. if it is not a successful policy -- i'm not asking you to

say it's a failed policy -- shouldn't we have a national debate about how to handle putin, how to handle the middle east? >> absolutely. i think what is fascinating actually is the republican party's view is to invade and criticize or agree. if we want to have a good discussion about what we should do, i think these two op-eds show the problems and complications. >> and your alternative is to avoid and do neither. >> no, of course not! next, the real reason why americans are angry with president obama and it has nothing to do with the attorney general eric holder's excuses. but first, today's cross fire quiz, which president appointed the first african-american to his cabinet? was it andrew johnson, dwight eisenhower or behindlyndon john? we'll have the answer when we get back.

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call... today. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? welcome back. here's the answer to our "cross fire" quiz. lyndon johnson appointed the first african-american cabinet secretary. now, let me share with you a picture of what encapsulates the obama administration. amid scandals over the border, the v.a., the irs, syria, iraq, cry mere area, the president who wouldn't go to the border because he wouldn't do a photo op, he is playing pool in

colorado 0 and dropped by a brewery to drink a beer and also stopped to shake a man's hand dressed like a horse. is there any wonder eric holder is complaining about what he perceives as disrespect toward he and his boss? but he's mistaking the motive. >> there's a certain level of vehemence directed at me, the president. there's a certain racial component to some people. i don't think it's a main driver, but for some there's a racial animus. >> you know, some maybe, but, sorry, mr. attorney general, it isn't are race that upsets the overwhelming majority of your critics. it's the fact that you and the president are utterly incompetent. in the "cross fire" tonight, neera and tim. you're 0 a loyalist, you're smart, you run a serious policy operation. you're the kind of person who actually would be competent in these kind of jobs. when you wake up in the morning

and you scan from the border, all these other things, the v.a. which is melting down, we have 54 different v.a. sites that have scandals, 54 sites. you look at the irs which last year sent $4 billion in false refunds around the world, including 353 checks to one house in shanghai. i mean, doesn't it make you wonder how 0 this administration could have this many different things going wrong simultaneously? >> you know, i mean, i think each one of these issues can be taken in turn. i think the issues raised by the attorney general, i can't say what motivates the opposition the president has, but i think the president has experienced a kinds of ahistoric opposition. it's greater than the clinton administration, previous administration. >> worse than nixon? >> nixon did some things wrong

here and there, i think. i mean, come on! >> newt is the historian. but let me give you ancient history. i'm a person of faith. i don't believe there's any perfection this side of glory. >> i share that with you. >> there are challenges, aulgz will be here on earth. but do you remember the guy who was there before, the guy who 0 obliterated the clinton surplus, ignored the warnings before 9/11 and botched the war in afghanistan, lied us into a war in iraq and destroyed the economy. i hate like hell when what's going on in. v.a., but you can't compare obama to bush. >> as i understand, this is a family program or i would read you a list of the things the left called george w. bush. they used the hitler and nazi slurs. there's always -- >> i think about clinton and the gentleman you served. he was called things that were

beyond the pale. he was. it was wrong then and it's wrong now. >> i like name calling because i'm an american. certainly you're right about hitler. that's always wrong. you're right. good point. but look at some of the things that have been said about our president. he just -- eric holder said some, not all. it's like he has two ivy league degrees and a phd in the obvious. obviously some of the hatred. look at some of the pictures we just picked up from the interwebs, here is a charming t-shirt. put the white back in the white house. kenyan, go home, directed at our president born in hawaii, by the way. here 0's some restaurant saying that the white house smells like collard greens and fried chicken. they never said that about clinton or bush. so some of this animus eric is right is racial. >> they could have said during clinton's operation it smelled like collard greens and smie

fryed chicken. >> the attorney general did say the majority, most off it is based on policy and ideology. i went back and read the transcript. he did say that. so i'm given him a little bit of a pass there. but i do think back to what when it happens we ought to call it out. but the vast majority of the opposition is based on the failures of this administration. >> it's actually a parallelism between bush and obama. sometimes in second terms presidents just get snake bit and things start to go wrong. think about katrina, the president flying overlooking down, a whole range of things. i was really struck and i'm picking on this because it's so symbolic that the president after all this foofaa in colorado would say i didn't go to the border because i don't do photo ops. it's a little like hillary saying we were so poor we

couldn't get a mortgage. >> well, that's a statement of fact. >> they have lots of houses but who's counting the houses. >> but she's signing an $8 million book deal. >> well, they were 10 million to 12 million in debt. it's a statement of fact. politically, unhelpful, but it's simply a statement of fact. but this question that i think -- i think you're right. he was very careful about what he said. he wasn't trying to be incendiary but i think he was stating the obvious. there are some, however, who are not really -- or maybe they are on the fringe, i don't know. but the vice presidential candidate for the republican party in 2008, sarah palin, has called for the impeachment of our president. now, you don't go along with that, do you? >> no, i don't. nothing he's done rises to that level. and i think the speaker was right about that, what he said. i do think his executive orders have gone too far and there's measures being taken to address that. i don't think most folks in office or most folks in general are looking at impeachment of

this president. we can beat him on the issues and i think we are. i look at where the president views this president. he's down in george w. bush territory. 44% job approval, 54% disapproval. the american public is looking at his leadership and don't like it and they shouldn't, it's not working. >> actually i suspect the intensity of the language against obama is not as intense as the intensity of language was against george w. bush. if you went back and actually looked at how intensely the left disliked him, and that was then compounded by the war, it was really extraordinary. you may remember there was an ad run that implied that he was in favor of having drug somebody to death in chains behind a car. this was a tv commercial. >> i remember the ad very well. that's not what the ad said actually. it was surviving children, i believe, of the man who had been lynched in texas and they said when he refused to support a hate crimes bill, it compounded their pain and made them feel it all the worse.

my clear recollection of that ad. >> but also it may have been by an independent group. but it showed chains. >> one thing about this president, though, and this administration. they tend -- they always want to find villains to hold up and say, look, it's not about our policies, it's about these awful people doing bad things to us and that's so hurtful and wrong. i think the american people after six years are fed up with it. the first three or four years it was always bush. the kick me sign and let's go bush. >> i'm never going to stop. at my funeral they're going to play a negative ad about bush, i promise. we will never in my lifetime recover from the damage that man and his team did. >> they always get the villain routine going and i don't think folks are buying it. >> hang on just a second. stay with us at home as well because we want you to weigh in on today's fire back question. get this. do you agree with eric holder that there is some racial animus toward himself and president obama? tweet yes or no using the #crossfire. we'll have the results for you

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welcome back. now it's time for the outrage of the day. i'm outraged because the planet is pretending it's business as usual while israel is under attack. more than a thousand rockets have been launched at israel. yet all we hear are calls for israel to show restraint. if the united states had 1,000 rockets fired at us, would we show any restraint? of course not. we would annihilate whoever did

it. >> you're exactly right. and as any legitimate country has the most important thing of that country is the right to self defense. i will say a reason a terrorist group claims the legitimacy of government in gaza is because george w. bush forced elections there against the will of people who knew better in israel. >> and it was probably bush's fault for helping create israel in the 1940s. >> no, but definitely because of the election. >> it's a simple fact that he pushed -- he and dr. condoleezza rice, our secretary of state at the time, pushed elections in there and oh, my gosh, gaza is now ruled by a terrorist group. thanks, mr. president. let us check on our fireback results. do you agree with the attorney general eric holder that there is some racial animus toward himself and our president? right now 58% of you say yes. 42% of you say no. tim, what do you think? >> i think most americans will judge this administration based on the policies, and the policies of this administration are a failure for the country. >> nee rcra?

>> i agree with the poll. >> thanks very much. for neera tanden and tim phillips, the debate continues online at cnn.com/crossfire as well as facebook and the twitters from the left, i'll paul. >> from the right i'm newt gingrich. join us tomorrow for another edition of "crossfire." "erin burnett outfront" starts right now. next breaking news. a possible cease-fire in the middle east. is it a nonstarter? plus does criticism equal racism? attorney general eric holder says a lot of the opposition to the president of the united states is because he is black. and say good-bye to your leg room, because there was so much of it anyway. how a major plane maker plans to cram even more seats into its jets. let's go outfront. good evening, everyone. i'm erin burnett. outfront tonight breaking news. a possible