thank you so much. thank you for joining me today. i'm fredricka whitfield. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com cnn is live -- >> then thursday happened. a second plane disappearing from radar. this time no mystery about what happened. flight 17 was crossing high above a war zone when it was blown out of the sky. sudden death from a missile that people on the plane could never have seen coming. 298 people are dead. their bodies lying in a war zone. we don't know who did it but the white house has its suspicions. >> a group of separatists can't shoot down military transport planes or they claim shoot down fighter jets without

sophisticated equipment and sophisticated training and that is coming from russia. >> reporter: the russian president is pointing his finger at ukraine. not many buy that. two questions hang over the tragedy. who and why? nearly since the plane vanished from radar, many have pointed fingers at pro russian rebels. is this the smoking gun? video released by ukrainian intelligence of an ann aircraft battery driving off with one missile apparently missing. was it the one that brought flight 17 crashing down? the second question, why? was it all a mistake? ukraine says this proves it was the work of rebels. [ speaking in foreign language ] learning who did this and why won't bring back the victims. 298 souls gone leaving behind hundreds of grieving families.

you'll hear those victims' stories and a sharp debate over who did this and what it means this hour only on cnn. >> cnn news live at the place where the flight crashed. we'll go there in just a moment. first let's get you up to speed on the latest news. the place where the plane went down is proving to be nearly as big a challenge as answering these questions. who could have done this and why did they do it? remember that part of the world is an active conflict zone right now with ukrainian troops battling rebels who are backed at least politically by russia. our cnn team had to leave the area briefly for safety concerns. here's the most commonly held theory about malaysia flight 17. it is also the position of the u.s. government that the plane was brought down by a missile fired from the ground somewhere in the rebel controlled eastern ukraine area. investigators from malaysia we know are on site. investigators from the united states, australia, they will also be there shortly. >> cnn is in do not dlets.

we know you had to leave the area earlier. also for inspectors wanting to go there. as the situation gotten any safer there now? >> we are told by the man in charge of the osce, the international cooperative body that monitors the violence here that he believes today was a little bit better. let me tell what you that means. that means when you're asked to move, they fire in the air. that mean you're having women's pointed at you all the time. as you're driving out there, there are over a dozen check points between the ukraine and these grooms. everyone of them stops you. and there is constant sound of gunfire. this is an active conflict and that's what is driving the frustration. we have an interesting motel with the head of the osce. he gave us information we had

never heard. and he gave us information he had never heard. he told us the reason there is no cease fire in any reporting that there was a planned one is not true, according to him. he said the reason is there are about a hundred militant groups with no affiliation. the idea of coordinating an effort is almost impossible. we told him at some point later in the afternoon, the militants left who are there threatening with us weapons. and they were replaced by men who appear to be in ukrainian uniforms who finally gave some dignity to these bodies that have been out for way too long. they put them in bags, they put them on trucks with their belongings. we don't know where rm there have been reports they were showing up at a morgue. i have to tell you, when i showed up at the scene, the whole team has been up since thursday. we thought it was a dream. we could not believe the scene was as raw as it is this long after the accident. >> having been out there recently, a good point you make.

this is really gang warfare going on. it is not a formal war. it is hard to tell who is on what side. you mentioned this is a graveyard, a sacred place. there are 298 souls. it is always crime scene. we were reporting yesterday a word that 38 bodies had been removed. that there had been looting of the site. from what you can tell, has that scene been disturbed? has it been compromised in any way from what you can tell there? >> without question. and without being a forensic expert, the site has been corrupted. there's absolutely no question. the sanitary nature of how these things are usually done, and you are both well aware of this. we've covered too many, unfortunately. none of that is in place. i watched militants walking up and pulling pieces off the fuselage, looking at it, throwing it back on the ground. no question about it. the bodies were not treated with the dignity that should be

expected in this situation. there is obviously more of an intention for them to showcase what that here as in their opinion, a demonstration of the ukraine government, the ukrainian government trying to sabotage their efforts. that's what they're interested in doing. and showing you how strong they are. not coordinating an investigation. now, looting. i have not seen any looting. i have heard tell of it. i have not seen it. i will tell you this. there is no question that there are things that we should be seeing that we're not. no cell phones no, purses, no wallets. the only computers you see are smashed and have been taken out of their sleeves. the luggage looks repacked. bodies? i counted about 75 today. where are the others? we don't know. >> chris, it is great to have through and it is exactly what you don't want in a situation like this. the scene being disturbed when everybody is calling for a fair, thorough investigation. thanks very much to chris cuomo

in eastern ukraine. >> our thanks to chris really putting the human side of this in the forefront. 298 innocent souls lost in this fighting. also erupting in a plume of black smoke, was malaysia airlines flight 17. it was headed from amsterdam to kuala lumpur. that's when the united states says it was shot down by a surface to air missile. 298 bodies now spread across miles of eastern ukraine. the crash site, a crime scene in the middle of a war zone. the black boxes with possibly very critical information have not yet been low kaxtd at least not by officials. >> it looks like the biggest crime scene in the world right now, guarded by a bunch of guys in uniform with heavy fire power who are quite inhospitable. and there didn't seem to be anyone really controlled, for example. one of our top priorities was to find out what happened to the black boxes.

no one was there to answer those questions. >> so many questions. let me bring in our experts. we have the former transportation department. the former faa safety inspector. also an audio expert who will dig into those tames for us and cnn expert, let me start with you. you heard from chris what this scene is like. there is very little if any press denicedent for dealing wi crash in the middle of a war zone. you have evidence that has clearly been tampered with. when you look at this, you were talking earlier about the fact that thousands of investigators are often needed to come and sometimes takes two or three of them to handle appropriately each victim. what will it be like as they try to deal with this? >> right now, apparently, it will be take care of the dead first and get them off the site as quickly as possible. at least try to restore some

humanity and dignity to the site. at this point so much of the evidence has been moved or contaminated. you usually do a grid first. that's why the u.s. ntsb has a go team. they have a jet and they get there fast them map out the area. if the fbi is there, the criminal investigators would take precedence because it is a crime scene. then they start to move thing here. that couldn't be done because of the terrorists have the site. moving the bodies does seem like a logical thing to do to get them to a place of decency. >> everyone wants to know where the audio recorders, the data, the so-called black boxes. they have not been discovered. at least by officials at this point in time. at least that we're being told. how critical are they? what kind of information do you think could be gleaned from them given the scenario that u.s. officials think played out? that this jet was hit in the middle of the air, above 30,000 feet with the missile? >> what we would hope to discover in the flight data record he and the voice recorder

would be some indication that someone had warned them before handled. that they had said, you're flying through an area you should not be. get out of here. >> but they were not in an area they weren't allowed to be. >> that's true. but they were in a different area than they had been, supposedly. when we look back, they really weren't. they were in an area they had flown before as well. so according to these audio tapes that paul will address, it says, why are they here? it's a war zone. but there was no indication to the airline that it was a war zone. hopefully those black boxes will give us a clue, at least proof that they weren't. >> so critical. jim, let me let you get in here. >> a question come to mind following that. all of our experts, it came up during mh 370. if you had streaming flight data and voice recorders coming directly from the plane throughout its flight, you wouldn't have the problem with mh 370. we have no idea what happened to that plane. we're still looking for the

black boxes. in this case you have the black boxes confiscated by one of the warring sides. does this again raise the issue, why don't we have that data? those voice recorders streaming so you would know already if a warning had went through? >> exactly. that's right. i've said this before. that i believe we have the technology that allows us to do it. it is a matter of implementing and of course the cost. in addition to what david had said about what we could get from the black boxes, it possibly would give us an indication of what kind of explosion it was, if enough of the explosion was captured on the recorder. explosions have signatures in the same way that gunshots do. and we can possibly determine something about the actual weapon. >> miles, let me have you jump in here. first i want your expertise on what kind of damage these black boxes can sustain. knowing what happened to this plane. and then what stands out to you as the most important part of

this immediately in terms of the investigation finding from the plane. >> i wouldn't worry too much about the integrity of the black boxes in this case. they're certainly well within the parameters of wherever they are found. they should have integrity. unless some other failure occurred, it should be able to be read. the question is in whose hands are they? we have to remember here one important point. this isn't much of a mystery or a who done it at this point. we pretty much know how this all played out. we're not trying to answer huge big deep questions as we were in the case of mh 370. it would be nice to know, for example, to confirm the altitude which you would be able to get from the flight data recorder. it would be nice to know about the radio transmissions. it would be interesting to hear if the crew had any recognition of the trail of rocket coming in their direction. and then frankly, one of the more important things down the road is, how long were people

aware of this situation? this has a lot to do with the financial claims that might be levied against the airlines and who knows who else. if these people suffered for some great period of time, that is a very important point as well. so those are all pieces of the puzzle which are, layers of forensics which might end up in a courtroom in the hague for all we know. how it went down is that who, those don't seal to be outstanding questions. and to to know the other details of this, they have likely most of them never dealt with this situation. appreciate the expertise from all of it. >> just as we're speaking now, i'm seeing a tweet coming from the netherlands. saying with 199 people killed on this flight still has not been granted access to the crash site. another sign of just the difficulties with this crash.

as the investigators try to get to the scene of the crash, they are greeted by armed gunmen who limit what they are allowed to see. how can they final any answers? we're asking one of the lead investigators on the scene. also the everyday items left behind. the laptop, the notebooks, it is devastating to see the personal stories of those that are grieving their loved ones. 298 innocent souls on board. that's next. wouldn't it be great if hiring plumbers, carpenters shopping online is as easy as it gets. and even piano tuners were just as simple? thanks to angie's list, now it is. we've made hiring anyone from a handyman to a dog walker as simple as a few clicks. buy their services directly at angieslist.com no more calling around. no more hassles. start shopping from a list of top-rated providers today. angie's list is revolutionizing local service again. visit angieslist.com today. really... so our business can be on at&t's network

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welcome back. a small team of international observers was able to visit the crash scene for a second time. their access has been limited by rebel groups who control the area. still they say they did make some progress. for one thing, bodies are now being collected from the wreckage and from nearby fields. michael, the spokesman for the organization of security and cooperation in europe, observer

group there. michael, tell me what you and your team were able to accomplish today. i know you've said it was safer today and you had a bit more access than you had yesterday. but it still seems that you operate under some pretty incredible restrictions there. >> reporter: that's absolutely true. it is one thing to get to the crash site. we're kind of at the mercy of the folks here and the next region to getting to the crash site. and they were handed over to a group of rebels there. today was a better day. we got to stay there longer. we got to survey a big area. what was very different today was the actual collection or beginning of collection of bodies into what to us appeared to be professional like body bags. we counted about 75, i believe, body bags that were collected. we left before there was any movement. then sub squenlt to our departure, the reports started coming in that those bags may

have possibly been loaded on to trucks. we only report what we actually observe, that's our function as a monitoring mission. so tomorrow we will go back to the area and compare what we saw today to tomorrow's body count. >> this is an incredibly sensitive crime scene. and from speaking to past investigators, everything is important. pieces of the wreckage, the condition of the bodies, other things found there. based on your own experience as you look at this, and it has already been a couple days since this crash. how much disruption has there been to this crime scene as a result? one of the delays but also the problems with access. the various people walking around the crash site touching things, et cetera. how much disruption? >> reporter: yeah, yeah. it is a very sensitive time. today when we arrived there must have been well over 100 journalists there.

and really, a special monitoring mission to do our work work he need tranquility, a sense of confidentiality. that was not there at all. the other thing that was there, only during the time of our visit was quite a large cordon of armed men in uniforms. some of them masked. no one really knew why they were there but it was somewhat intimidating to us as well. i must point out that our vehicles were not allowed into the site at all. secondly the big problem is there is no security perimeter. normally, of course, one of the first things that hams when there is a crash is there is a security perimeter established. that's not there at all. so really, anyone can walk in and programs tamper with evidence. it's a big problem. >> what do you need now to be able to complete your work? what do you need russia to do in what do you need the various rebel groups to do? i imagine just to stay back. ixt well, we've been on the

ground in three months. we've been in eastern ukraine for quite some time. we had a one-month kidnapping incident with eight of our colleagues. having said all that, we know the main players on the ground. what we need is a secure environment to operate. we need freedom of mobility to go there whenever we want. and crucially, of course, for the international community is for us to lay the ground work that was crucial steps to allow others to come in. when we went there today and many journalists told us as well, there was quite heavy firing going on in the distance. and it is really intimidating to go there and hear that. so many things need to fall into place for large unarmed civilians to come in. >> it is a war zone that you're trying to operate in. quickly before i let you go, do you have any sense, do you have any information about where the black boxes are? did they fall in rebel hands? are they still in ukraine? do you have any idea?

>> reporter: right, right. one of the first things when we came to the site yesterdayering with asked who was in charge. and it didn't appear to us that anyone was in charge. there was no obvious commander. we asked the same question today, no one was produced. so you know, there is no one to answer that question. it is incredible whether the black boxes have been found and if they have been, where are they? so we will continue to press for answers. but at the moment, it is a very, very big mystery. >> the question holds for the entire part of that country in europe, eastern ukraine, who is in charge? thanks very much for joining us. it has been more than two days since malaysia flight 17 crashed in ukraine. bodies and personal effects still remain among the wreckage. coming up, snap shots of these once prized items now left behind. (vo) friday night has always been all fun and games, here at the harrison household. but one dark, stormy evening... she needed a good meal and a good family. so we gave her purina cat chow complete.

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. all of these everyday items founds in the wreckage of flight 17, they're really hard to look at. they remind you of the 298 souls that were brutally murdered in this attack. jason carroll shows us, they tell a very devastating story. >> reporter: a red suitcase, an i heart amsterdam t-shirt, a

lonely guide to bali. the people including the babies who board ad flight from amsterdam to kuala lumpur and never arrived. they were in the midst of every day life will many headed to vacation. we see the novels they were reading, a map, a deck of cards now strewn in the grass. clothing everywhere. scattered along the wide field of wreckage. there are backpacks and has not bags, brightly colored suitcases in a jumbled heap by the side of the road. passports, some charred, others apparently unscathed, are among the rubble too. in this wide field and tall grass, debris stretches so far in so many small pieces, it seems impossible to know for certain what happened to those passengers in the last moments of malaysia flight 17. >> for those who knew anyone of those 298 passengers or crew on board flight 17, laying flowers

or cards or mementos is impossible for now. the crash scene is still a very active investigation. it is a crime scene in the middle of a war zone. for most families, it is very far from home. laurie is here to show us some of these images, tell us the stories. so much of it is unfolding online and facebook. >> i was through a lot of these facebook pages. it is such a tragedy. you can see their friends. the facebook pages are becoming online memorials to them. i want to speak specifically about a person, if you look at his facebook wall, you can see the outpouring of support and people remembering him. i want to read you a couple comments. one says, oh, my surrogate little brother. who i am a going to ease now? at least we have the peace of mine that you found your one and only elaine and you'll get to be together forever, just in a different peaceful world. they're referring to his

girlfriend who went to melbourne university, also passed away. you begin to understand more about him. another comment. we just don't share the same birthday. we share memories. i'll never forget the drunken nights on your birthday, the time we played pool, the times we all sat in the bathtub hiding, the time we all jumped in the pool with clothes, the time we sat in the main lodge. i can't believe it. rest in peace, bud. the world will miss you. you see these people were not just faceless folks. they were full of life. and he obviously loved to travel, to experience life to the fullest. you begin to see that in the social profiles used for every day life that are now being used in their death. >> they have their own stories, they have hundreds of people that loved them, that were waiting for them in kuala lumpur. it is absolutely tragic. and when you look at some of the final posts, it tells us a lot. the final posts. headed on this trip, i'm excited that we're going all over the

world from kuala lumpur. >> one passenger, his name was regionis, he checked in on facebook. he said going back to my roots. see you very soon, bali. you're at that post right now. you look back at that and it is such a tragedy. there have been hundreds of comments on that kind of post. he also posted a picture on instagram of his passport and his plane ticket. and he said going from amsterdam to kuala lumpur, you look, that has nearly 30,000 likes, 30,000 comments of people, an outpouring of support and what is, you look back at that and it looks so ominous. >> and i know coming up next, you'll talk to us. next hour about some of the other social media posts that are up there. people that took pictures inside the plane. even people that were a little bit nervous. we'll have that next hour. thank you for coming in. we appreciate it. as you well know, no one has taken responsibility for shooting down that airliner. but audio released by ukrainian officials is incriminating.

[ speaking in foreign language ] of course cnn cannot verify the authenticity of that recording which is reportedly pro russian rebel in addition panic after allegedly shooting down flight 17 just a lot of questions still remain. how credible is that? we'll discuss that in detail next. what if a photo were more than a memory? what if it were more than something to share? what if a photo could build that shelf you've always wanted? or fix a leaky faucet? or even give you your saturday back? the new snapfix app revolutionizes local service. just snap a photo and angie's list coordinates a top-rated provider to do the work on your schedule. the app makes it easy. the power of angie's list makes it work. download snapfix for free. (vo) you know that dream...

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relations between the u.s. and russia were already cold before flight 17 was shot down. now things could get much worse. russia just issued a list of americans. it is banning from traveling to russia. this comes three days after president obama announced new u.s. sanctions against russia over the conflict in ukraine. president obama and russian president putin talked about those sanctions on thursday. and yesterday, mr. obama

described their conversation. >> time and again, russia has refused to take concrete steps necessary to de-escalate the situation. i spoke to president putin yesterday in the wake of additional sanctions that we had imposed. he said he wasn't happy with them and i told him that we have been very clear from the outset that we want russia to take the path that would result in peace in ukraine but so far at least, russia has failed to take that path. >> cnn foreign affairs correspondent joins me now from washington. you see very varied reaction to this shootdown so far. president obama was very careful in his words yesterday. he did not exactly pin the blame on russia. today in a series of phone calls, you see a mix, the dutch prime minister having what was described as a very tense conversation with russia. merkel from germany, a little

more measured talking about access to the crash site. you and i have would noted about this a lot. in the lead-up to this, all the back and forth, europe has been reluctant about tougher sanctions. do you think this crash will change that? >> well, that's the real question. whether this is going to become the tipping point for europe. a the love these countries have victims on this plane. especially the dutch which has been a little bit reluctant to impose sanctions. so i think that as the evidence becomes more and more clear, i think once the europeans want to have a very firm case. so does the united states before they start imposing sanctions. i think once the evidence becomes clear about what really ham, i think it will be inevitable that there will be not only a discussion among leaders, but among the public. among their politicians. a lot of these people have coalition governments and these politicians at home will press

for sanctions. so i think it will be a real discussion right now. initially these people were very reluctan reluctant. as president obama. before, yesterday, actually, this should be a real wake-up call for europe. that this conflict is not local. it is really starting to affect europe and beyond. >> 12 nationalities on that flight. u.s. officials have been telling me even before this flight, and i'm sure they've been telling you as well that they've basically given up on a truly cooperative relationship. with russia. this takes things in an even more dangerous direction to shoot down. where does this leave u.s./russia relations? are you back to a cold war situation? are we even friends anymore? really? how bad is it? >> well, it was getting pretty bad before. so the question is, as president obama put it out for president putin, this is really a kind of fork in the road for him. he has a strategic decision.

does president putin realize that he created a monster and say, listen, i'd better back off. maybe it is time to start soothing relations with the west. they're looking for a sign for that. so far they don't see that. if you look at the other areas the u.s. and russia were cooperating on, syria, for instance, that's not going so well. the russians really haven't been very supportive although they had that chemical weapons deal. they're still continuing to supply the syrian government with weapons. now the u.s., very concerned about egypt, for instance. and their crackdown on political activists and the russians are supplying egyptians with women's. so if you look across the globe, there's a question about whether there will be another satellite in cuba harkening back to the cold war. it doesn't look very good for relations. and it does seem the u.s. is looking for other partners to cooperate on the other issues they might have looked toward russia about. >> and of course, the nuclear

negotiations with iran just extended for four months yesterday. but russia, a very key player in that. potential spoiler in that as well. thank you very much. since the plane went down some 48 hours ago, ukrainian officials have shared with cnn and others audio recordings which they say prove that the pro russian militants shot this plane down and at the same time were in touch with their russian handlers as it happened. in fact got their weapons from uv almost we can't corroborate these rorgecordings.

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about everything that comes standard with our base auto policy. and if you switch, you could save up to $423. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy? . nearly 300 innocent lives were taken. men, women, children, infants who had nothing to do with the crisis in ukraine. their deaths are an outrage of unspeakable proportions. >> an outrage of unspeakable proportions. those words from president obama as he addressed yesterday the downing of the jetliner in ukraine. still no one has taken responsibility. certainly a lot of denials out there. the u.s. now believes that it was likely pro russian rebels. and the evidence against them is growing. cnn has obtained this video. according to the interior ministry shows the buk launcher

like the one believed to be responsible for shooting down that malaysian jetliner. you can see it here. it is zoomed in. they believe one of the missiles is missing. you can see it. we'll play it again. rumbling through the streets. some suspect headed from ukraine over the border into russia. >> then there is this intercepted phone call. purportedly between militants before the plane was shot down. listen as they talk about delivering the buk missile across the border from russia into ukraine. [ speaking in foreign language ]

>> it gets even more suspicious. a short time after the jet was shot down, another phone call was sbemtd again by ukrainian authorities. listen as the rebels realize it was not a transport but a civilian plane. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> joining me now, military

analyst, a retired air force intelligence officer. audio expert paul ginsburg and former cia operative bob baer. i would like to start with you. there is been a stream of evidence coming from ukrainian intelligence. they've been some of it with me. you have the phone call as the missile system was delivered. you have the video that popi was talking about. being sent back to russia after the plane was shot down and new photographs which we'll share with our viewers shortly that the ukrainians have put out, showing not one but three buk missile systems going back over the border into russia. you're a military intelligence officer. when you look at this stuff, granted, we're in the middle of an information war between the two sides. when you look at this, do you consider this credible? >> i have to tell you in doing this for a long time, this seems very convenient to me that all of this information comes out just when you need it.

and it is all the damning information that you need to bolster the case. the pentagon has said they have no reason to doubt it. but still the timing of the whole thing bothers me. it is too easy. having done this for a long time, it is never this good. >> that's a fair point. a fair question. you make a fair point. the pentagon and the white house said they do not have reason to doubt it but at the same time, they can't corroborate it. paul, i wonder if i could bring you in. you're an audio expert. you hear the recordings. pretty good quality, it seems for cell foenl communications. i would imagine they know their cell phone calls might be recorded. as you listen to it, do they sound authentic to you in. >> i agree with rick. these are excellent quality. in fact, we had intercept of three different calls and two were in stereo. something i've never seen in 9040-year career with fbi, secret service, dea and so on.

you would have to be at the telephone company at the switch location where each of these two lines were coming in to make a stereo recording where they're separate. so that shows that they may have had some, somebody working in the telephone company. >> interesting. bob, i want to bring you in. yes, there are questions about both the video and the pictures and so on. that said, to this point, it matches with what u.s. officials have concluded. one, that it was a surface-to-air missile. the buk system, the russian-made system. russian officials saying that as well. that it came from the ukrainian side of the border. to this point it is matched with the intelligence conclusions that the u.s. officials have made. the u.s. officials have. they believe, it is their working theory that the missile system was transferred.

do you find the case that russia was involved somehow is credible in your view? >> i think the preponderance of evidence is the russians were involved. these missile systems were very complicated, hard to work to get a lock on a target, you have to know what you're doing. you have to be trained. to keep these systems up. the mechanical part is really hard. the chances of the russians having provided this is very good. but then again, i don't base it on the ukrainian intercepts. i've been following this as rick has for years and i've never seen such damning evidence come out so quickly. and let's not forget the ukrainian government is party to a conflict and they want to frame russia. still, i'll go back to the russians who i think had a complicity at some level at the very least, supplying weapons which the rebels on their own couldn't handle. >> and that is a key point. it raise as whole host of

implications for u.s./russian relations and what i want to bring you in, colonel, in your own expertise as well. something struck me from the pentagon press conference when general kirby said before this crash the u.s. military was aware that pro-russian rebels had systems like this. we know the systems can the 31,000 or 32,000 feet, and why do you think it was a security error not to have warned airlines to stay away from ukraine if they had that knowledge? >> well, they may have warned them. we don't know exactly. certainly in may there was a defense weapon that shot down a helicopter, and last month you had an army transport that 49 ukrainians were killed by

supposedly near an airfield by another, and then earlier this week, the am-26 was shot out of the air at 26,000, and that's the telling one, and when you reach up to 21,000 feet, you need to really reconsider man pad's threat and take into account that maybe this was an sl-11. clearly we have all sorts of satellite imagery and intel abilities to look across the border, and it's pen public law sized in the press about equipment, and, you know, russia has fingerprints all over this and they have heavy equipment that has gone in there and as you indicated earlier, it looks like several have infiltrated

back into russia in the last 24 hours. >> thank you to our guests for helping to analyze the fascinating audio recordings. such a fascinating discussion and so many questions remain as we listen to them. coming up next, the ukraine gunman giving investigators, keeping them away from the crash site, and a journalist that works for russia today resigning because of their coverage. is that next. it's got a great taste, and it helps give me the nutrition i was missing. helping me stay more like me. [ female announcer ] boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. all with a delicious taste. grandpa! [ female announcer ] stay strong, stay active with boost.

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a russian state reporter is quote for the truth, and she said this on twitter, and also was, quote, russia's today policy on always blame yukraine. this is a fascinating story. this is interesting. this is not the first russian correspondent to publicly leave the channel for objections to how they report the news. we saw an anchor, liz wall, do the same thing. >> she did it on air. and she was talking about the information war that is going on. she felt like she was part of it and didn't want to be anymore. here is a clip. >> and that moment, the way we

handled that breaking news story was the clarifying moment to me. really i have had many times over the five years that i have been a reporter where i had a similar struggle and you watched a story handled in that way and you felt very strongly that right away the narrative is being pushed to a very specific narrative to the detriment of the facts of the reporting. >> she felt there was so much finger-pointing to the ukrainians and nothing back towards the one that funds that channel, russia. >> russia did address this and they came out with the statement in part saying we have different definitions of the truth, and that was a real sticking point for her, too. >> for sure. sarah ferth said there is only one truth, and this is a channel that mixes news and opinion that

you rarely see, and i think that's why it's such a controversial channel. it's in so many americans' homes, but as with everything in the story, you have to know the source. >> i previously called her a russian journalist and she works for russia today that is british and had been there five years and struggled before with whether or not to stay. thank you and we will be right back. you know.... there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try phillips fiber good gummies. they're delicious and an excellent source of fiber to help support regularity. mmmm. these are good! the tasty side of fiber. from phillips amam rich. my social circle includes captains of industry, former secretaries of state, oil tycoons, and ambassadors of countries known for their fine cheeses. yes i am rich. that's why i drink the champagne of beers.

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on family movie night. this message paid for and approved by xfinity's family hits. tell me the whole thing again, i wasn't listening. watch to vote with xfinity on demand. for this summer's top 100 shows and movies. and remember, the only thing to fear is fear itself, and spoilers for shows you haven't seen yet. global...pandemic. ♪ poppy harlow in new york. >> and i am jim in washington. 289 victims caught up who had no part of it, and you are seeing some of the faces now lost on those lost on the malaysia flight 17. a nun, and citizens from more than ten nations around the

world. and the only american on board, quinn. we spoke to his grandfather about finding out that news. >> you just hope that none of the children or the grandchildren will go before you. and now it has happened. it's just the first time it has happened in our family. we always have the possibility to out live our children and this time it didn't work, unfortunately. >> it's heartbreaking and we will focus on the victims throughout this evening. first, we want to get you up to speed on the latest in the investigation. >> it is well after dark in eastern ukraine. the third night since malaysia airlines 17 was shot from the sky killing 298 people. one major frustration at the

scene, international observers and investigators are still being kept away from parts of the wreckage and some of the victims. read this just tweeted by a nato official representing the netherlands. you have to take responsibility and use your influence with the separatists. adding to the frustration, it's dangerous there. this is a war zone, after all. rebels are fighting ukrainian troops all around the place where the wreckage went down. people there tell us they have heard gunfire and artillery explosions. the bodies of many of the victims are beginning to get organized and that's in the past few hours and that's certainly not the case early on. chris cuomo was there and he saw how it was handled and he joins us.

and 189 dutch were killed. and chris, i want to talk with you now. we have talked a bit about how much the scene has been compromised by people, by the pro-russian rebels. what are you seeing there now? crucially, is anybody in charge there? >> reporter: well, it's really difficult to say that anybody is in charge in a investigative capacity. you would have to think the local militants are. the head of the osce which is head of the international monitoring agency for violence said there are 100 different eastern malicious groups in eastern ukraine so the idea of any type of consensus and a coordinated cease-fire is almost difficult to imagine. the people that we have seen there have been very

inhospitable to people there. they said they put 200 people on the site, and that's hard to believe. i am not saying the ukrainian government is not telling the truth, but i don't see those numbers there, and 800 to 900 militants are keeping people away, and i didn't see anything like that there either. there's a lot of conflict going back and forth, and one thing for sure, the victims involved have not been afforded the dignity that they should in a situation like this, and the bodies received too little respect and they only got bagged and brought away today by workers that we watched do that work, and where they were taken we are not absolutely sure. but just moments ago before i came on, i was talking to one of the separatists or militants, depending on your perspective,

and he pointed to the watch and he started laughing, and he said a lot of people have new watches. hopefully he is just making morbid humor, but there is no question people have been going through things, and what do you expect when you are in the middle of a civil war? >> it's sickening and horrible for the families involved and that much more horrible because of this. i want to go to simon. you are in the netherlands and holland lost 189. describe the reaction there. there must be tremendous anger and people starting to point their finger at russia or the militants for what was responsible. what are you hearing there? >> reporter: yeah, amidst the mourning and the grieving here, jim, there is a lot of anger, too. a lot of questions are being raised about the investigation. they want to know what is happening about that.

we have heard about those stern words you just mentioned being cross between the president here and the president of russia, putin. the frustration, by the way, it's echoed by malaysia airlines. i spoke to the second in command with 100 or so staff volunteers of the emergency care team, and i asked him about the access that chris was just talking about, trying to get to that site. he said it's incredibly frustrating but at the same time it's dangerous, and we don't want to take any risk, but we want to get there and we want to be able to get to the bodies, and we also want to seek after the forensic investigation, and it seems unlikely to take family

members to the site because of the violence, and amidst the anger, let's not for get there are a lot of people grieving, not just the next of kin and family members, but also the entire nation. this is a nation that has been mi hit hard. and the majority of the passengers is from age 17 here in the netherlands, and well into the night people are queueing up to sign the condolence behind me, and also laying flowers. children are coming as well with their parents and entire families coming. this is a nation that doesn't grieve very publicly. it's a very private nation. i have been speaking to people in villages around amsterdam, some of the people on board, and they said we are very private people and we like to grieve and mourn privately, but we want to pay our respect, and we want to

try and share in this loss with the people involved, and also earlier today we saw some malaysian airlines cabin crew and i asked them if they were willing to speak with me and they were visibly distressed, and they told me not a camera and one told me a few months ago she lost a neighbor on flight mh-370, and now two days ago she lost another neighbor on mh 17, and a double tragedy for her. >> it's a national tragedy in particular for the netherlands, and we have andrew stevens, and two months after we were talking about the loss of ml 370. >> when you talk about what happened there, and you were there extensively covering the

disappearance of flight 370, the anger there is many fold, one that these loved ones, more than 20 people, citizens there have died in all of this and their bodies have not gone through a proper burial that they would like to see within 24 hours, and what can you tell us about that? and also the fact that you have this country still in the midst grieving from what happened to 370. >> reporter: yeah, it's inconceivable. two airlines to be downed within five months of each other, and that shock is clearly seen here. this is a predominantly muslim country, and there has been a lot of questions and a lot of the imams here, the religious leaders have been talking and urging people to be patient and saying it was a test from god and to be calm and patient and

things will get better, but obviously very, very difficult for people here to comprehend that the national airline -- this airline is held in very high esteem within the malaysian community, that such a tragedy could have happened twice. this is a key area now for the government to try and get the bodies home, because under islamic tradition, the bodies need to be buried within 24 hours. in fact the prime minister's own step grandmother was on that plane. this was a woman that was widely admired here both within her family and the broader community, and she was known as mother, and she was on her flight and coming back to see her extended family here. the remains, as we understand, are still in ukraine, and the prime minister has been talking to victims' next of kin and spent two hours with them

yesterday, and his message was we are going to see justice for the victims, and we want to see the perpetrators brought to justice, but as important we want to see those remains brought home. we need a safe corridor into that area. we need the victims brought home to their families so they can be properly buried. you can imagine the stress of the families as they deal every night going to bed knowing their loved ones are still out there in that area, inch cra that crae and people are unable to get to that, and the imams say this is a test. the people i speak to here, there's grief and shock, but not a lot of anger. it's just god-willing, please bring our people home and bring the people responsible for this to justice, and that is what we are looking for. >> yeah, and inimaginable pain

there. to you, jim, before we move on, we received this from the dutch prime minister, talking about anger, he is saying totally disrespectful behavior at the site and calling it disgusting and calling on vladimir putin to do something, and i told him the opportunity expires to show the world he is helping, and we will discuss that more. 48 hours after the crash -- all of the victims' bodies remain scattered in the debris field that is miles and miles left out in the open. where is the dignity for the victims? we are going to talk about that next. [male vo] inside this bag is 150 years of swedish experience in perfecting the rich, never bitter taste of gevalia. we do it all for this very experience. [woman] that's good. i know right? gevalia. ♪

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welcome back. after another day of finger-pointing of who is to blame of bringing down flight ma

17. 298 souls are gone and passengers coming from all walks of life, a flower shop owner and real estate agent and 80 children with their lives yet to unfold, including four infants. jake tapper has some of their stories. >> reporter: among the more horrific remains scattered in the field in eastern ukraine are ordinary objects now shrouded in tragedy, bags violently emptied, never to be used again. all 298 people here, the ones on board malaysia airlines flight 17 perished. scientists, students, families, children, all taken before their time, including american citizen quinn schansman.

one woman was an engineer inspiring others to innovate. >> we have to mandate in pushing technologies. >> nearly 100 of the victims were traveling for an aids conference in australia where they were to be joined by president clinton. >> they are martyrs to the cause that we were going to australia to talk about. >> among them, glenn thomas from the world health organization, and an aids researcher, the father of five children. >> despite being a great scientist he was a man of art and a man of family. he was very dedicated to his family and traveling a lot and he was always thinking about them. >> australian nick norris, was a grandfather, traveling and dying along his three grandchildren. >> the family is looking for

some answers, and nick himself was an inspirational hero to some of the people, he was a storyteller and natural leader. >> his grandchildren, ages 8, 10 and 12 are among 80 children reportedly lost here in ukraine. 80. it's almost too much to bear. along with them was a nun, and she was sharing a cabin with those just setting out to begin their own life's work. and a doctoral student lost her life here. darryl, just 20, a young deejay, the loss shaken his friends. >> all my friends going a lot of times to asia and flying the same route, so it's difficult for us and all his friends to understand that this could happen. >> how and why these lives were cut short is now under investigation, but there will

never be a reason that makes any sense. >> it makes no sense at all. there is a growing outcry over the lack of dignity of the victims in the crash, and bodies remain scattered throughout the crash site that goes literally for miles. some emergency workers told cnn it's not their job to collect the remains, and a pro russian leader said they have asked the bodies not be moved. obviously an investigation is different depending on what country it is done in, but what you know from dealing with investigations, whose responsibility is it to deal with the bodies that have now been laying in the field since thursday? >> the nation of where the accident is, any crime site

investigation you have one lead agency and you appoint somebody in charge overall, and this is a clear reason why you do that. here, nobody is in charge. >> chris cuomo said on the ground, he said there is no clarity as to who is in charge. >> that's right. the lines of command are clear in the investigation, in this case it's a crime so the criminal investigators would take the lead but they work in concert with the air crash investigators, and the group that comes in and takes care of the remains and all the personal effec effects. >> and the temperatures there, the heat is making this situation even worse. >> no question. i have to ask you, mary, david, miles, you all have great experience in plane crash investigations. is there any precedent for a crash like this happening in a place where the scene is compromised, and you don't have the bodies removed for days and you have all sorts of people, journalists and residents wondering over the area, and has

that ever happened in your experience? >> the only one that i can think that i worked personally as we had a case where there was a crash in venezuela, and it was very difficult to get to the site and difficult to maintain control, and it wasn't processed properly, and it was not a war zone and the purpose was not to delay taking care of the remains. >> david, jump in on that. >> yeah, i had one in africa that we did, but that is to be expected there. the looting and things like that is something that happens there quite often. >> what about flight 7 in '83? >> i don't think it was, though. >> it was over water. the trouble was it was shot down over water but there was interference because all the nations rushed there to find the wreckage and the black boxes, and the soviet union interfered and they put down a fake pangers and tried to stop the ships and rammed things, and they did

interfere but the plane and the bodies were in the ocean, of course. >> and jim, you can get to miles. >> slowly investigators are moving in there, and the monitors -- the investigators have not got there yet and they are waiting for the scene to be clear. how much does this delay, the compromising of the site, how much does that do? >> if there is residue on the wreckage, it's not going to disappear right away. the way the wreckage is bent is crucial, too. was there an explosion on the inside or external. these are things we think we know, but there is the concern, however, the key pieces could disappear. imagine that if when finally a reputable and objective investigative team gets there,

if ever, what if the black boxes are gone and what if key pieces of metal that might have signs of explosions, what if that has disappeared. then you are right back in the middle of the cold war, corina airlines, 007, the soviets put those black boxes in a kbg vault and we didn't see them for a decade, and i hope that's not where we are headed, but as far as i know to have an airline crash with civilians in the middle of hotly disputed territory in the middle of a war, i can't think of an instance like this. >> it remines me of lockerbie, it was one little piece of an exploded like tape cassette recorder which is what led them to realize that it was a bomb that took that down. small pieces of evidence could make a big difference. >> i think of the black boxes, and they are not black. these things stand out.

they are pretty bright. would people that want them or don't want officials to have them go right after them? we will talk about that next with our experts. mary really wanting to weigh in, and we will get more from you guys later. coming up, it's important that we focus on the victims and the families and those left behind. we will talk to a woman that lost her partner on flight 370. ahead she will talk about the words of advice and the help they are trying to give now of the families of the victims on flight 17. and then in gaza, are they expanding their ground invasion. our experts weigh in next. your 16-year-old daughter

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welcome back, everyone. we are going to talk a lot more

about the victims aboard ma 17. first the latest on the conflict in the middle east. >> two israeli soldiers died in the ground offensive in gaza. 11 people were killed in gaza, pushing the overall death toll to 342. most of those, 70%, civilians. israel's main goal is destroying tunnels used by gaza militants, and 13 have been found so far. our guests, we start with jim, the tunnels used for smuggling and attacks and their capability to launch missiles, and what do you think can be accomplished in the ground offensive and what do you think are israel's goals before they say we have done enough? >> the tunnels have been effective for hamas, and they know they can't move above

ground because the israelis have great surveillance of what is going on, 24-hour night and day surveillance, so they have to go underground. so they built the extensive network of rebar tunnels that are good and they tunnel under the border. if they can knock out the tunnels, they think they can cut down the number of rockets being fired. that has not been the case so far. hamas has been very resilient. >> those tunnels are easily rebuilt, and they have tens of thousands of rockets. it raises the question, how comprehensive would a victory be here, is it a matter of pushing out the length of time before hamas can fire more missiles, or is it a comprehensive victory here? >> i doubt they are looking for comprehensive victory, but of course you have had a couple ministers there that indicated they needed to take over all of

gaza, which would be very problematic for the israelis, and i don't think they will do that. the tunnels have been there for sometime. they try to block them the best they can. but with the disarray in egypt having the ability to sneak all the weapons in from iran, and iran's markings are all overt rockets, and what we don't know and perhaps the israelis have a better idea of how many rockets they actually have and where they are stored, and i suspect they are probably in a school yard or perhaps a hospital, that's how they operate. they have the same launch sites in the areas. this is problematic. >> no question. one of the issues, rick, and it's just the possibility of civilian casualties. the number is 70% of the 300 some odd number of the people killed up to