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tv   Forensic Files  CNN  July 20, 2014 2:00am-2:31am PDT

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so glad to have you with us on this special edition of "new day," starting early, 5:00 a.m. i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. >> this morning, there are a lot of new questions and a lot of frustration and fury as well internationally about what is happening to the bodies of the 298 people who died when malaysia airlines flight 17 was shot out of the sky. >> there is outrage being expressed by world leaders through every hour we're getting reports. malaysia airlines is retiring, we have learned, that flight number. mh-17 out of respect for the victims. we know next week it will become
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mh-19. also, ukrainian state emergency officials say the government search and rescue workers have now found 196 bodies at the crash site there in eastern ukraine, but they say armed pro russian rebels are really hindering their search. international observers also say they have seen unidentified men taking pictures of some remains and then taking those remains away. they say they have no idea where those bodies are being taken, or who has ordered them to be moved. and they're still not being given full access to the crash site. >> ukraine and the u.s. both say a russian made missile shot down the plane thursday. ukraine has released images, though, that it says shows three missile launchers being transported back to russia. >> russian president vladimir putin is coming under as we said growing international pressure and anger. >> in a front page editorial in fact in britain's sunday times headlined, quote, this is an outrage made in moscow. prime minister david cameron says, quote, the growing weight
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of evidence points to a clear conclusion that flight mh-17 was blown out of the sky by a surface-to-air missile fired from a rebel held area. he adds, quote, if this is the case, this is a direct result of russia destabilizing a sovereign state, violating its territorial integrity, unquote. backing thuggish militants -- militias rather and training them and arming them. that continues to be the quote. >> as nations grieve, other world leaders are speaking out. they say russia must act now or face the consequences. >> when you have a situation where russian-backed rebels appear to have killed australians, using it may well turn out to be russian-supplied heavy weaponry, australia takes a very dim view indeed and we want the fullest possible investigation. >> translator: i am late for
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this news conference because i just had an intense telephone conversation with the russian president. i told him he has one last chance to show the world he means to help. he must take responsibility now towards the rebels and show to the netherlands and the world he does what is expected. >> and secretary of state john kerry telephoned russian foreign minister sergey lavrov and told him moscow must get the rebels to lay down their weapons and allow investigators complete access to this crash site. ukraine's foreign minister says russia needs to use its influence over the rebels. listen. >> now is of course about the -- as i said, it is about trilateral contact group talking to the terrorists, but it is, of course, about understanding how to put pressure on the terrorists, and it is up to the international community to put relevant pressure on russia
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because the main back of the terrorists and the majority of the terrorists russians. >> let's bring in phil black now. >> he's at the crash site in eastern ukraine. phil, thank you for being with us. what are you seeing on the ground there? does it seem organized more so than yesterday and what do you know about the bodies? >> sure, we are seeing more progress here today, no doubt. in terms of control, and activity, the emergency workers who are guiding the recovery effort, they're now restricting access to the main impact site, a few hundred yards up the road behind me. members of the public, vehicles are noerer allowed through. there are many other impact sites around here that are still very much open, very much unguarded, yet to be examined particularly closely. we're also seeing greater
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activity in terms of removing the bodies. most of the bodies that are still here 24 hours ago, still some okay days after the accid they have been recovered. we're told some 196 bodies in all are now in possession of the emergency workers that have been leading this recovery effort. and the search is also stepping up as well for those remaining victims because we are seeing volunteers, truck loads of local miners, being brought in and instructed, guided by the emergency workers, to fan out across this farm land, through the fields, lookin for those remaining victims. >> can you tell me, phil, as this continues, we know that the osc, the monitors are in and we know there are, i guess, 380 was the count of these workers who were combing through this field. does this give us any indication on the access that will be granted moving forward as this becomes an investigation and not just a recovery mission?
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>> well, i guess perhaps it is a positive sign in a sense, that we are seeing this progress, that there are emergency workers here now being more active, in bigger numbers, the fact that the european observers are allowed in, yes, it is positive. but it is still a long way from what is required. the numbers of people here, we need a lot more than that and they need to be qualified. they need to be professionals. experts in this sort of investigation, experts in processing bodies from this sort of accident, experts in forensically examining the remains of the aircraft to determine what happened here and we are not seeing that yet. the rebels who are still very much in control here, they are saying that they will allow international and ukrainian observers and experts in, but we're still not seeing them yet. it hasn't reached a level that would be considered world's best practice, nothing close. >> okay, you say that they will allow people in, but you haven't seen the investigators there
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yet. is that because, i mean, the investigators have not yet arrived or are you seeing still some aggression by these pro russian rebels there to keep people out? we were talking to chris cuomo yesterday and he said, they basically hold guns to you and say get away. do you still see that happening? >> yeah, i'm aware that chris experienced that yesterday. today, in this location, no. we haven't received or experienced that sort of aggression. it is a really important point. because what that shows is that regardless of what the rebel russian leadership says at the highest level, they say they will cooperate, they're waiting for the experts to come in, it is up to the ukrainian government and so forth, that does not necessarily filter down to the men with guns on the ground. it is factional. there are groups. the authority of rebel leadership is not absolute. so very much depends upon who you are meeting on what patch of ground at what time.
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and that, no doubt, is a complicating factor in terms of getting the search locked into certain areas, getting the right people in here to do the job that needs to be done so badly. >> phil, there is this report from a spokesperson, i guess, from osce, who says that some of the bodies were photographed and then taken away. i just heard you tell us that the 196, 196 bodies found are now in the possession of the ukrainian security officials. do we know that they have all of those bodys? do we know that all of the remains are recovered are now in the hands of the ukrainians or could there be some taken by the unknown, unidentified men that have been named by osce? >> yeah, it is a good question. that figure 196 that comes from the ukrainian government. that's what they say they know. in the immediate aftermath of
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the crash, there is a real question mark over what happened to some of the bodies there. the rebel leadership have said publicly that they didn't touch any of the bodies, they left them in their place, deliberately, so as not to contaminate the scene. other rebels, though, here on the ground, have told us that bodies were taken. they were moved. and if that is true, the question is where were they taken to and, of course, where are they now? that is not clear. and, again, it is that issue of what is being said at the top by the rebel leadership does not necessarily equal what is happening here on the ground. so i think it is going to take a considerable amount of time before an accurate number of the bodies recovered is really determined. not least because in the areas of most significant impact here, the human remains are really in a terrible state. it will be very difficult to determine just how many bodies are being located in these sorts of locations and we have seen that work going on at the main crash site today.
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it is really a terrible scene. but it is another sign of the challenges that are being faced here in terms of determining where the bodies are and, of course, treating them with the sort of dignity that no doubt their families, their loved ones around the world would absolutely expect. >> absolutely. the forefront of all of the statements we're receiving from world leaders, this morning. phil black there near the crash site. phil, thank you so much. >> thank you, phil. stick around until 9:00 a.m. eastern here. that's when cnn's candy crowley interviews secretary of state john kerry about the crash and the conflict in ukraine. well, ukraine's prime minister has some pretty harsh words for whom ever fired the missile that took down mh-17. we'll go live to the capital for reaction there. plus a new round of heavy shelling in gaza forces hundreds of people to flee their homes. we're going to take you live to the war zone. crest gaand the other, a crestwhitening toothpaste.. here's what they thought. i can't tell if the paste whitened. well the whitestrips worked. yeah. the paste didn't do that.
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welcome back to our special coverage of the crash of malaysia airlines flight 17. ukraine's prime minister sells cnn the person or persons who fired the missile that took down that plane, that they had some expert training. >> and he's pointing the finger squarely at russia.
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>> this is not russian-led drunk terrorist who pressed the button. this is someone well trained. >> moscow continues to deny any involvement this hour. but we want to bring in cnn's kelly morgan and the ukrainian capital kiev. kelly, thank you so much for being with us. the ukrainian government we heard there has been pretty adamant that russia is involved. it has shown us pictures of missile launchers being moved allegedly back to russia, has any of that been verified? >> good evening, no. unfortunately none of them has been independently verified by cnn. we have seen a number of clans come from the security services in ukraine over the past three days since malaysian air flight 17 was brought down in the ace of the country. evidence it says that the -- not just the separatists shot down that airplane, but also that it was -- that particular missile was supplied by the russians.
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now, of course, russia denies it. the rebels also deny they have such sophisticated weaponry capable of bringing a plane down from that height. so there is a lot of blame game is certainly ongoing here in kiev at the moment, from both sides. the rebels, from russia, and from ukraine. it is very, very hard to know exactly what the truth is. on the part of the ukrainian government, they have offered to give the evidence that they have to share that with the international community, which does seem to be showing a lot more support for the case that ukraine is building against russia. >> we talk about the level of involvement moving forward. russia, of course, saying it is not involved with the taking down of mh-17. but moving forward, ukraine's responsibility -- has responsibility, russia says, because the crash was in ukrainian air space. talk about that, if you would. >> yes, obviously it was over ukrainian air space and questions have been raised about
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what commercial passenger flights were even doing flying over that region when it is in effect a conflict zone. not all airlines were flying through that region. they have been diverting around the ace of ukraine for quite some time since this conflict began back in march. i think what we're hearing is ukraine is very much saying that that conflict was started by the russians, certainly provoked by the russians in first place, that it has -- the separatists had been provoked by russia, that russia has actually been filtering weapons across the border to support the separatists since march. and even earlier when this conflict in crimea unfolded. so, again, the blame game, the truth often does get lost very quickly when these conflicts beg begin from the start. >> phil black was just reporting that they're waiting for experts to come in. why have experts not been sent there yet?
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and who is to be part of that team? >> well, this has been the most difficult thing for the ukrainians is that they need to get access to that site so that we can begin the recovery and the investigation. at the moment, what we're hearing is there is still 800 to 900 militants still around that crash site, that huge area, where the debris and the bodies are still being sort of documented. and to quote vladimir grossman, the head of the task force here in ukraine, he said experts are working under the barrel of a gun, so that the difficulty is that ukraine says that it has the ability to recover those bodies and to identify those bodies, but the problem is it cannot guarantee security of the people, the investigators who need to try to get the bodies to kharkiv where they're setting up the crisis center and carry out the identification processes. and will also provide a crisis center for victims of the family
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of victims who are expected to travel to kharkiv. >> kelly morgan live in kiev, thank you so much, we appreciate it. >> the other story we're following, the developments in the middle east. the major escalation in gaza as israel expands their military operations. at least 13 people have been killed, 200 wounded, and no sign of the fighting letting up. [ julie ] the wrinkle cream graveyard. if it doesn't work fast... you're on to the next thing. neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair has the fastest retinol formula to visibly reduce fine lines and wrinkles in just one week. neutrogena®. to visibly reduce fine lines and wrinkles in just one week. tdrink something that is acidicy on a daily basis. those acids made over time wear the enamel. i recommend pronamel. pronamel helps to defend the enamel from the acids in our diet... it helps to strengthen the teeth.
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the conflict in the middle east is now growing bloodier by the hour. right now, in gaza, thousands of people are leaving a neighborhood outside of gaza city. this is coming after a near constant stream of shelling overnight. >> i want to get you caught up on what we know at this hour. officials in gaza say the death toll has climbed to more than 400 people. that have been killed since the conflict started. 40 of them were overnight alone. >> and the number of palestinians who had to leave their homes has topped 60,000 according to a u.n. relief group and that number is only expected to grow. >> meanwhile, israel's military is stepping up its ground invasion, adding more soldiers and widening the battlefields. >> for more now, we're joined by ben wedeman in gaza city.
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ben, tell us about this stream of shelling overnight. >> yeah, it has been going on by my calculations at least 14 1/2 hours. all focused on this district behind me. you may be able to see the smoke. that's an area where under normal circumstances, about 100,000 people live, but what i saw early this morning were hundreds, thousands of people walking on foot, carrying their children, some of them were barefoot, carrying as much as they could, which wasn't much, because it appears they waited until day break to leave that area. so thousands at least are heading to these u.n. schools and that figure of 62,000 seeking refuge in u.n. schools is obviously well out of date as we have seen these people go. they're not just going to u.n. schools. many are going to the main hospital here in gaza. the shipa hospital and just sitting on the lawn in that area
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because they believe it is perhaps the safest place in the hospital itself. it is mayhem. there are dead, overflowing from the morgues. wounded filling the hospital. according to doctors there, they're running out of medicine, running out of equipment, some of their paramedics have been fired upon. at least one has been killed in addition to a local journalist as well, so the situation extremely perilous in this neighborhood. this is really the worst assault we have seen on gaza, i've seen in gaza ever in my more than 20 years of covering this conflict. now, the people are streaming into gaza city. this is what they were advised by the israeli military several days ago. of course, the problem is gaza city is not safe. we had incoming rounds, very close by here. they may be warning rounds, which means bigger bombs,
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rockets may be coming in soon. so it is extremely difficult. and keeping in mind that neighborhood is very crowded. 100,000 people. gaza city as well. when these incoming rockets, bombs and rounds slam into the city, innocent civilians are certain to die or be be wounded. >> ben wedeman, boy, do take good care there. thank you so much for bringing us the latest. it says a lot when ben who has been there for 20 plus years says this is the worst he's ever seen it. >> certainly, ben thank you. we'll have more on the crisis in gaza later on the show. wolf blitzer will speak with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu in the 8:00 a.m. eastern hour. just about 2 1/2 hours from now. and secretary of state john kerry is candy crowley's guest on "state of the union," right after that at the 9:00 a.m. eastern hour. meanwhile, malaysia airlines retiring the flight number of that doomed flight that killed
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298 people. chris cuomo looks at how armed rebels surrounding the crash site are really hampering the investigation. [ male announcer ] every day, your mouth is building up layer upon layer of bacteria, so destroy these layers with listerine®. its unique formula penetrates these layers deeper than any other mouthwash. for a cleaner, healthier mouth, #1 dentist recommended listerine®. power to your mouth™.
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29 minutes past the hour right now. so glad to have you with us.
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i'm christi paul. >> i'm victor blackwell. we have new information about the bodies, the victims there of mh-17. we're getting reports from our team there that is with this convoy of osce observers, the organization for security and cooperation in europe, they say large numbers of bodies are now being collected and placed on to refrigerated train cars at a station near this crash site in eastern ukraine. the bodies, as we know, you see them here are in black body bags. now, the people who are loading these on to the train cars say they are the bodies of those who are -- who are the victims of mh-17. but as cnn obviously and osce cannot confirm that element of it. >> the 14-member osce team that is there says the train will remain in place until specialists arrive. the question is, when will that be and from that point where will the bodies go so thean

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