israel and hamas, president obama will not be monitoring late developments from the oval office. he'll be on his way to the west coast for three days of fund-raisers. first in seattle, then heading to san francisco and los angeles. trying to raise millions of dollars. the white house insist that's the president will not let up on the pressure he's applying to vladimir and can easily do that from out west. we'll bring you the latest on we'll bring you the latest on all that tomorrow. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com we are all over two big breaking news stories for you. first flight 17. a train carrying the bodies of some victims has left donetsk. >> meanwhile the u.n. security council adopts a resolution condemning the downing of the plane and demanding full access to the site. and our other big story tonight,

president obama pushes for an immediate cease fire in gaza as the death toll rises on both sides. two more israeli soldiers were killed on monday bringing the total to 27. and some 573 palestinians have been killed. so let's begin with the latest news in the flight 17 crash investigation. cnn's nick peyton walsh joins us live. what's the latest? >> reporter: we know that at 3:10 local time, 8:00 your time, the train carrying 200 of the bodies of the victim of flight 17's departed from the donetsk. they took a different route than anticipated. it was expected to travel straight to kharkiv. there's been a lot of contrary information about when the train was supposed to leave, what direction it was taking. and it will probably take at least seven hours to make its

way toward kharkiv where it will be met by an increasingly large number of australian, dutch, consular officials, those trying to go through the extraordinarily grim and difficult task of taking these bodies which are now a number of days since they died in that missile attack on that plane and putting them into what we understand will be some special coffins flown in by the dutch and then a number of plane have been arriving one by one at the kharkiv airport. it is unclear if they'll be identified through various technical means and experts here or they'll be shipped back to the netherlands where that identification process will continue. >> and of course most of them are from the netherlands. areally the any family members there? if they are here, i'm sure they'll be keeping a very low

profile. we san seen many of those and we're told there are not many experts here, saying they're trying to do it as efficiently and dignifiedly as possible. we've got one of the dutch soldiers we spoke to said something. my country is at a loss. tragic time, very, very sad indeed. >> let us know when that train arrives. thank you. president obama turning up the heat on russia over the flight 17 investigation. is that working? our senior white house correspondent jim acosta joins us now. how important are the black boxes to the white house? >> well, i think the news that the black boxes were turned over will do little to satisfy white house officials. at a back ground briefing i attended, senior administration officials said the black boxes will only show so much. they're not sure whether the black boxes can different intyly say what brought the plane down.

they're saying they are much more interested at the wreckage at the crash site. that's why you heard the president say international investigators need to have unfettered access to the scene. >> stand by because i want to you weigh in on something. now that the black boxes appear to be in investigators' hands, what will they be able to learn about how the plane went down and who might be to blame for it? deborah feyerick has that point. >> reporter: aware the world was watching, the self-proclaimed prime minister of the do not dlets rebel-held territory returned the data recorders. they will be as crucial to the investigation as the wreckage itself. the pieces, likely to determine the type missile fired from the launcher say experts like new york time aviation writer matthew. >> the proximity missile would have sent shrapnel into the plane and you can see entry holes and exit holes in the metal if you know what you're looking for, if you can find the

metal, if it is still there. >> reporter: though it's too soon to tell. unlike a heat seeking missile which would lock on to an engine, the proximity missile is a explosive warhead that detonates near aircraft. rick francona is retired air force intelligence. >> the standard sa 11 warhead is 150 pounds of high explosive fragmentation. in other words, the casing itself will turn into shrapnel when the warhead explodes. >> francona says the buk launcher typically uses these missiles. instead of a fire ball it tears hole in the aircraft leaving sections intact. >> it could have caused a mid air explosion. we saw the fuselage coming apart and falling in large pieces. >> reporter: experts say thick black smoke from a fire was likely the fuselage after it hit the ground. >> we think of another crash,

the korean airline crash where people were still alive after it was hit by an air to air missile. is there the possibility that people were aware for a second, two seconds of what had happened? >> it's possible. as the aircraft broke up, if you were still strapped into your seat, you would realize something terrible was happening. but you would soon lose consciousness because of the altitude at which you were. >> the length of the six-mile debris trail suggests the plane may have remained airborne for as long as 40 seconds, says francona. >> in the korean airlines 747 that was shot down by an air to air missile, the crew knew they had been hit and talked about it. and the cockpit voice recorder persisted for many seconds before the airplane broke up, hit the water. >> experts say the missile likely took 12 seconds to hit its target 33,000 feet in the air. even if the pilots saw the

missile, because of the plane's size and maneuverability, it is unlikely they would have been able to take any evasive action at all. deborah feyerick, cnn, new york. >> i imagine seeing it as a pilot and you can't do anything about it. as a passenger even being aware for a few seconds. when you're at 33,000 feet, you think you're safe. you're not landing or taking off lt it is just horrible to think about. when we come back, we'll get more information from jim acosta at the white house. we're beginning to make progress in this investigation. what it will take to get justice for the families of the 298 people who were killed? hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection? yeah, we help with fraud protection. we monitor every purchase every day and alert you if anything looks unusual. wow! you're really looking out for us. we are. and if there are unauthorized purchases on your discover card, you're never held responsible. just to be clear, you are saying "frog protection" right? yeah, fraud protection. frog protection. fraud protection. frog. fraud.

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welcome back. a train carrying the bodies of some flight 17 victims is on the move tonight and rebels have turned over the plane's black boxes. where does the investigation go next? back with us is jim acosta of cnn. also from the law firm in chicago, mary schiavo of the d.o.t., she is now an attorney for victim of transportation accidents, and author of why planes crash. great to have all of you only the. has the white house responded to the fact that the rebels have handed over the black boxes to malaysian authorities? >> not that i know of yet. that will be an interesting question tomorrow. the administration officials that i've been talking to are

saying, in addition to the wreckage, they want to know who fired this missile. and they don't know if the black boxes will say that definitively. beyond that the white house is saying, look, there are no other competing theories for what happened here. officials are scoffing at these russian theories for the crash that a ukrainian warship was possibly in the area of the plane before the crash. and the russians, these administration officials are saying are only harming their global reputation even further with these statements. they're saying who else but the russians were delivering these heavy weapons. and who else but the separatists could have fired this shot. so they're saying, if you sort of deduce what happened here, it only leads to one logical conclusion. >> meanwhile, we were told the black boxes will that solve the issue of who downed the malaysian airliner. >> we'll to have look at the wreck annal on the ground, as

compromised as it may be. there will be some clues that cannot be disputed or destroyed. that is entry and exit point of the missile. it doesn't just go through one point. it is scattering shrapnel throughout the aircraft. as it goes, enters in and goes out, you can draw a line straight back at whatever altitude. you can tell exactly where this missile was launched from. so that will be an incredibly important piece of information to get from the accident scene. >> so mary, how does a plane crash investigation of which you've dealt with many, differ when it is a crime scene? >> when it is a crime scene, it literally becomes pretty much a who done it much like shows you might see on tv. the crime scene is a part of it. the interviews, pan am 103, 15,000 interviews. our firm, we were the last ones in that case and the last one in 9/11. there were rewards for information. we bought a terrorist computer

at one point. somebody wanted to sell it. pan am 103, they put reward information inside matchbooks and distributed them all the way around where terrorists might gather or loiter or someone might turn them in. this turns into an international crime investigation and a manhunt. even if we do determine where the missile came from and who launched the missile, we won't necessarily know why they launched the missile or what went, if they intended to launch the missile. here's what the russian ambassador to the u.n. said today about that very fact. >> according to them, the people from the east were saying that they shot down a military jet. so if they did, there was confusion. >> in case you could not hear it, it was confusion.

confusion is not an act of terrorism. how does that differ legally for the families seeking recourse? >> legally it doesn't differ at all. the primary source for the parties, the families to obtain compensation will be malaysia air, the airline. that airline will be responsible because it failed to take all necessary measures to avoid the loss. that's the standard tunneled really the convention. there is a stricter standard for those european decedents. so malaysia will be responsible to pay all these damages. whether or not it was a mistake or intentional won't matter. >> you said they didn't take all necessary measures to avoid this loss? how? >> because they were flying that particular route over that particular territory. i know other airlines were doing the same thing. but other airlines did risk assessments and decided not to do it. and i think you only have to prove just that malaysia air is only partly responsible.

just partly. because of that, it is definitely partly responsible and will have to pay compensation. >> what do you think about that? were not they at an altitude that was supposed to be safe? >> well, no, the information was out. there i agree with floyd. the information was out there that it was not safe. in fact, it was banned up to 32,000 feet. so they go to 33,000 feet. there's not a jury in the world that will believe that a thousand feet is a safe measure. when you're just learning to fly, for example, you can stray from your altitude pretty easily by a thousand feet. i don't think anybody will believe that was an adequate measure of safety. i think they're terrorist that's shot this down, just because maybe they thought it was something else, if you can be so horrible as to willy-nilly shoot off weapons, then you can be convicted. it is just a different level and a different level of crime. i wouldn't be so sure that they will be caught. and i think they will be

punished someday. remember, it took a long time to catch them all from pan am 103 and from 9/11. >> it sure did. why were they flying such a dangerous route? >> in my opinion, in what information they had available to them and all the other airlines had available to them, there was no worries and nor would a reasonable person expect them to know that there was an sa 11 pointed at them from the ground. >> but other planes had been shot down just that week. >> none that they would be aware of. all of those planes with well below 21,000 feet. not 32,000 feet. and they were suspected to be shot down by much smaller armaments and at the, either the takeoff or the landing or the bombing run type of a situation. it had nothing to do with aircraft at that altitude and there was no reason in my estimation for them to believe the malaysian airlines nor the other four carrier, the other 853 flights that flew over that exact same flight within the

previous seven days, why those people would think that it was a separate and some kind of other risk successful. my job and my whole life has been developing the safety management risk system. i'm in expert risk management. that's what i do. and i understand i'm not a lawyer and i'm sure there are different perspectives legally than what i'm saying. let me ask floyd. do you agree or disagree with what he is saying? >> no. i have to respectfully disagree with david. i understand his point about risk assessment. if you and i were on that plane, will we say someone did a risk assessment and basically, it is probably not going to happen? particularly if you're malaysia air where it had a terrific loss a few months ago, you should have been ultra sensitive. what does it hurt to go around a different route. just for the possibility. you go around. that's what at love airlines do. >> not 853 flights. >> common sense says a thousand

feet? really? >> you make a great point, mary. we have to leave it there. thanks so much for weighing in on all this tonight. western leaders are dialing up pressure on vladimir. we'll hear from two experts on how he is responding, next. hi, credit report site andour i have a problem. i need to speak with your fraud resolution department. ugh, we don't have that. what should i tell him? just make that super annoying modem noise... (shuuuuuuuh....zzzzzzzz...de ee...dong...shuuuhh...) hello? not all credit report sites are equal. classic. experian.com members get personalized help plus fraud resolution support. join now at experian.com. with enrollment in experian credit tracker. ♪he cadillac summer collection is here.

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switch to comcast business internet and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. welcome back. western leaders are pointing fingers at vladimir for his support of rebels in ukraine but they stopped short of outright blaming hill for the crash of flight 17. joined now by phillip mudd, counter terrorism analyst and cia terrorism official and also, the director of the institute at the wilson central. welcome. matthew, you first. yesterday british prime minister david cameron wrote an op ed. it is called the plane crash and the aftermath. an outrage made in moscow. is he right? >> reporter: you know, the ambiguity that surrounds the connection between the kremlin and the activities of the rebels

and then beyond that, this particular missile launch and that is still very much there, the challenge is without a thorough investigation, at least as far as this launch is concerned, we're not going to know how close the connection went to moscow. the broader picture, and i think this is the argument that mr. cameron has made. this is the argument mr. obama and others have made, by not shutting down the border, by giving rhetorical and political and they themselves admit it, material support, they're saying it has been nonlethal support. the russians acknowledge they have given material support to the rebels. they're creating the conditions for something like this to happen. the argument would be the russians have created an overall environment and thus they bear a kind of political moral, programs even legal responsibility for doing this. >> but phillip, is it really that ambiguous? >> i think there is two pieces of this you have to look at. the first is capability. did the russians give the

opposition, the capability to shoot down the aircraft? in terms of both the equipment and the training, my judgment is yes. the second question which is the heart of the matter, did anybody have the intent to take down a civilian aircraft? i can't believe the answer is yes. i doubt we'll ever know the answer to that. on the first question, the intelligence about capability, did the russians enable the shootdown, i think the noose is tightening around putin's throat. >> you know, it seems to be a slightly more conciliatory response from moscow. yesterday and today, putin urging cooperation and then the u.n. ambassador saying if this happened, if this happened it was confusion and not terrorism. do you think that putin has calculated that this was a no-win situation for him? >> i think he finds himself now in a situation where he is effectively let the genie out of the bottle. everything i've described has created circumstances where a lot of what's being done in his name in the interests of russia allegedly makes his life loot

harder. i think for that reason, putin might be reconsidering whether he wants to have this handled and glove relationship with the separatists. not so much because the west is telling him he has to pull back but because he doesn't see the percentage in it anymore. the advantage maybe if putin decides to back off a little from the separatists at the same time he's willing to contemplate a cease fire for long enough that we can establish some of the facts that phillip mentioned, if you can actually prove a direct russian training connection equipping, supplying the rebel that's result in this particular shootdown, it is not a random accident in the case of the fog of war, then i think in fact it is very proem for the international community to go after moss koufl otherwise i would take it as an open handle. this is putin saying there has been a tragic situation. let's investigate and it try to negotiate. that's potentially productive. >> i should have given a caveat. one of those having said thats.

phillip, at the same time russia said today that they have evidence a ukrainian fighter jet was flying in the area of the flight 17. is there the ill reply indication that it could have been ukraine behind this? >> i don't think so. i think what the russians are trying to do, i completely agree with the comments here. they're trying to figure out what to do in response to increasing evidence that shows they're responsible. in response to the president and the congress saying we'll impose sanctions. most surprisingly to the europeans and maybe the germans and others in europe saying, hey, the evidence is getting clearer and clearer. they're trying to figure a way out. let me tell you, there's one piece that is significant. we can sit here and talk about what the united states is saying about the intelligence case, what putin knows it doesn't know, let me tell from you 30 years doing this, 25 years at the cia. behind the scenes the u.s. government knows a lot more than they're saying in terms of

russian culpability. and putin knows that we know. so behind the scenes, go ahead. >> let's listen to the president today. he said the u.s. government knows more than we think we know. the president today, and the ukrainian president poroshenko both made strong statements. >> russia and president putin in particular has direct responsibility to compel them to cooperate with the investigation. that is the least that they can do. >> crime number one is that terroristic attack itself where the terrorists supported by the russian launch rocket missile, a surface-to-air missile, which brings 298 victims. crime number two. and it is a disaster. the way how the bodies, innocent

bodies including the 80 children were treated. >> i cut you off. that is as emphatic of words as we've heard from bleerds who is responsible and how they're handling the investigation. >> yeah. i think what we've got going on is the president is dealing with the europeans and others to figure out whether the europeans, especially the germans, are going to fall behind him on sanctions. i think behind the scenes the intelligence he's receiving is compelling. but at this point until he sees what the europeans will do, i don't think he wants to get too far out in front. he is trying to figure out how much of a consensus we have. the intelligence case here increasingly starting on friday and through the weekend is becoming less and less significant. the question now is, is angela merkel going to lead the europeans into tougher sanctions? that's what we'll see tomorrow.

>> all right. phillip and matthew, thank you very much. >> take care. >> thank you. >> so don, as you know, secretary of state john kerry is in the middle east. he is trying to get israel and hamas to stop the deadly violence. a live update from jerusalem on whether a cease fire is now possible. [ female announcer ] there's a gap out there.

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we have some breaking news on the violent showdown in gaza. two more israeli soldiers were killed on monday, bringing the total to 27. some 573 palestinians have been killed. meanwhile, secretary of state john kerry is in cairo tonight trying to broker a cease fire between israel and hamas. cnn's martin savidge joins us live from jerusalem. what's the latest at this hour? >> reporter: hello, hopes of a

cease fire, there are always alive. israel would maintain that it would like to see a cease fire. it is all ready for one right now. prime minister benjamin netanyahu has said that look, israel has agreed to a cease fire twice already in this ongoing conflict and in both cases, they have said that it was hamas that broke the deal. israel is all for a cease fire. hamas is not. that's not totally incorrect. hamas says it is for a cease fire as well. but under certain conditions. those conditions might include opening of the borders. the free flow of people between -- and goods between gaza and israel. in other words, a lifting of the line and sea blockade. the problem with any conditions set to a cease fire, israel would not like that. then it could be perceived that hamas had gained some kind of vehiclery and israel does not want that to happen. it is in the details. right now the details are being

worked out. >> has something changed since last week when hamas didn't agree to the cease pier that warranted john kerry heading over to cairo tonight. >> not that we've heard. a couple things should be noted. hamas is going to be very suspicious of any deal which egypt is a part of here. it can be said there is a falling out if you will between hamas leadership and the egyptian government. so they won't like trusting any deal the egyptians help to broker. on top of that there will be real concerns, if it is just an end of the shooting, hamas would say that gains nothing for the palestinian people. they would be opposed to this. so right now there is a lot of talk of cease fire. but seeing it implemented, i'm not sure people are truliment on miss particular about that. >> let's hope something can happen tomorrow. thank you.

>> israel blames hamas for the deaths in gaza. we're encouraging people to stay. >> there homes after israeli forces have warned of impending air strike. joining me, the ambassador to the u.s. thanks for joining us. >> thank you for having me on your show. >> there has been a terrible loss of life of both sides, mostly palestinians in this round of hostilities. the question is when will it end? >> we hope it can end soon. we didn't want to have an operation to begin with. that's why they said quiet would be met with quiet. that led to a lot of rocket attacks on israel. you had an egyptian cease fire about a week bag israel accepted the arab league supported, the international community supported it. and unfortunately, hamas did not agree to it. we've had some u.n. cease fires. both were breached by hamas. we hope that hamas will agree to the egyptian proposals and will

stop firing rockets at israel. it is not so difficult to understand how this comes to an end. >> with all due respect, let's talk about the lives being lost. we understand it is hamas and hamas is a terrorist group. everyone gets that. but more than 500 palestinian casualties so far. the u.n. is estimating that 70% of the deaths of civilians or injuries, they have been civilians. how many civilian deaths are too many? >> look. you said that everyone understands hamas is a terror organization. i hope that's the case. i don't know if everyone understands how hamas is fighting the war. they are not just deliberately our civilians. they're putting missile batteries next to hospitals, next to mosques, next to schools. we had a u.n. school last week had 20 hamas rockets in it. they're the ones putting their civilians in harm's way. they're using them as human shields. we are doing everything to take their civilians and get them out of harm's way. we draw up leaflets, make phone

calls, we're doing everything. they're saying ignore the warnings of the idf. stay there. this area where there were a love people killed in the last 24, 48 hours, we told all those civilians to get out. we gave them 48 hours to get out. we had to go in with our ground forces and there can be many more civilian casualties. not a single person should have been there. >> if you can clarify this. because hamas claimed they have kidnapped an israeli soldier but soldier says that is not true. can you say definitively that no soldier has been taken? >> to the best information i have at this point no, soldier has been taken. >> secretary of state kerry is now in egypt. he is trying to broker a cease fire and tend crisis. there are conflicting comments. what kind of deal will it take? >> the egyptians put a proposal forward. hit to stop the rocket fire. then 48 hours later everyone would go to cairo and raise any

issues that they wanted to raise. that was something that just a minute's cabinet second. that israel's cabinet accepted. as i said, that proposal was second by the arab league. it was not simple. i want you to understand something. if you had 200 million americans under rocket fire, a cease fire proposal that would come from the outside is not something that would be simple for an american president to agree to when you have a terror organization on contiguous territory firing 2,000 rockets at your civilians. the prime minister of israel went against the political head winds and accept the cease fire. >> if hamas agrees to a cease fire, will israel withdraw from gaza? >> of course. we didn't want to be in there to begin with. we left gaza in 2005. israel with drew its military, with drew its settlements. we did everything they said we need to do for peace. go back to the' 67 lines. it is important to understand because people sometimes forget what happened here. we were not in gaza.

we didn't want to be in gaza. when we agreed to the cease fire a week ago, no one -- >> with all due respect i'm not talking about that. i'm talking about now. the ground action. i understand what you're saying. we -- that's what i'm telling you, we took the ground action because they rejected the cease fire. >> you made your point. okay. secretary kerry was caught by hot mic yesterday sarcastically pinpointing the missile strikes. i want to you take a listen. >> a hell of a pinpoint operation. it's a hell of a pinpoint operation. we've got to get over there. thank you, john. i think john, we ought to go tonight. i think it is crazy to be sitting around. >> what do you make of that mole? >> i don't know what he was saying. i personally spoke to the secretary. we've been in touch with him every day. you heard his public comments about israel's right to defend itself. he understands that. he made a large he point as

well. he is somebody who has fought wars and he knows what it is like to fight in wars. a lot of times you have civilian casualties that no one wants to see. what hamas wants to do is have a lot of civilian casualties and they use this strategy of human shields for a reason. they think it works. they think israel will be blamed for these civilian casualties. and that they will achieve something by having israel pressured and israel blamed by those casualties. i hope that doesn't happen. i appreciate the strong support we've gotten from both the president and the secretary for israel's right to defend itself. >> i want to ask you about that. because michael orrin, now a cnn analyst has written an op ed as decrying the media. accusing the media of being tools of a hamas propaganda effort because it broadcast pictures of civilian deaths. clearly you see that the same way then. >> i do. but i don't -- first of all, let's separate categories. hamas intends to harm

palestinian civilians and israeli citizens. if palestinian civilians die and they can use that in the campaign against israel, so be it. the media is different. the media is looking for a story. you have these heart-wrenching photos, a palestinian civilian killed, four kids killed on a beach. everybody feels that. i see a picture like, that it is very hard. in placing the blame on israel, they are unwitting accomplices to what hamas is trying to do. ultimately what that will do is send a message to hamas and terror organizations everywhere, if you use human shields that will work. who do you put the blame on. you asked me about civilian casualties. but for civilian casualties is hamas. why did you put missiles next to a hospital. why are you putting them to a playground -- >> with all due respect, i asked but civilian casualties. that was one of my first questions. the last question you asked but was what michael lawrence said

about the media. i asked you about media coverage. >> i don't blame the media in any way for covering the issue. i don't have a problem with the media putting those pictures on television. the question is, who will those pictures pressure? will pressure be brought to bear on israel or will it be brought to bear on hamas? hamas should be responsible for the use of human shields. they are putting missiles and military command centers in hospitals for crying out loud. that's something that the world should be outraged about. not outraged that israel for defending itself against this rocket attack but outraged for using its own people as human shields. >> i think the thing is what people who are watching the media may not have such a, a stake in all this. they're looking at pictures of people just being injured and they're saying people are people regardless if they're palestinian or israeli. >> i agree. i agree. but understand what the consequences could be. if human shields is an effective

strategy, it will be used again and again. if it is not effective, it is less likely to be used. that's the simple truth. >> thank you very much. i appreciate your time. >> thank you. >> it is impossible for this topic not to get heated. did you a good job but it is always a heated topic. >> we're going to work together. my thing is that i hate people who come on and give me talking points or not answer my question directly or answer with it another question. answer my question directly. i realize if you come on, you'll have, people have their message. >> that they want to get out. >> and the ambassador did a great job. that's my thing. and afterwards, he was like, i like coming on with you because you really get in there. so i didn't mine at all. >> good to know. >> thank you very much. as you know, there were 298 people aboard malaysia flight 17. they included research here's dedicated their lives to fighting aids. there were families on vacations and there were 80 children. we have the story of the children next.

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but with pamprin, a period means sgo!! pain relievers only relieve pain. multi-symptom pamprin relieves all your symptoms. so there's no stopping you. period. the malaysian airlines flight 17 took off from amsterdam and 193 of the passenger killed were dutch

nationals including the nephews. they were at a gathering in the netherlands with the prime minister, the queen and the king. and he joins us now via skype. thanks so much for being here. you lost as women, your two nephews, 19-year-old shaka, 10-year-old nigel. where were they going? >> they were going on bali, indonesia to vacation with my grandmother. their grand mother, my mother. who owns a vacation home there. >> can you tell us about, we're looking at pictures of your nephews. can you tell us about them? >> well, it is a picture of my eldest nephew, shaka. what is there to say? they were beautiful boys? hard working students. he had just finished his first year of college.

he was majoring in textile engineering. and he was just full of life. he was so excited about meeting up with his grandmother. she was his favorite grandchild, her first grandchild. he was also a really good big brother. i mean, nigel is only 11, turned 11 on april 23rd. so he was worried about the trip. and he had some premonition about the safety of the flight and he was scared. >> what did he tell but that premonition? >> it was eerie. even after going through passport control, he ran back to my sister and said, mom, i'll scared. i don't want to crash in the flight. if i were to die, what should i answer to god if he asks me something? and she said don't be sillily. you've flown so many times. your big brother is there. you'll be fine. and see you very soon mark the few weeks.

enjoy yourself. >> that's so hard to hear. we understand that they were good kids as you're saying. that they would do their household chores, they would help their mom, cook with her, all the things that you hope for in your sons. we also as we mentioned, you attend ad family meeting with the prime and the king and the queen of the netherlands. tell us about that meeting today. >> it was very important. there's a lot of anger and frustration among the audience. it was a very nice gesture, i think, by the government. just by happenstance the queen gave my sister a hug and they started crying together. and she comforted her and said you know, i have children myself. i can't even imagine how you must feel. and god bless you. so she was very, very nice. and the prime minister, he was very acceptable. he was fielding all the

questions that were hosted by family members and he was very transparent. he just admitted a lot of times that he did not know, peel wanted to know when the train with the remains would be allowed to depart from the crash site. and at the time that he gave the press conference, i mean, the meeting with the family members, he did not know. but again, people obviously were sad and they wanted answers. i think they did their best to try to answer everyone's questions. >> well, harun, we understand that train with your nephew's remains is now headed from the crash site to an airport and hopefully home to amsterdam soon. we hope that gives your family some small measure of relief. thank you for talking with us tonight and sharing the your nephews with us. >> thanks for having me. i appreciate it. >> really tough to hear from those families. do you know what i mean?

>> to see the pictures of them looking so lively. >> it was good. they came on and want to pay tribute to them and i think that's fantastic. and tragically, 80 children died in the crash of flight 17. we just heard from the uncle of two of them. >> reporter: a 17-year-old dutch girl killed. her grief stricken father seething in an open letter addressed to vladimir putin, the separatists and the ukrainian government. thank you very much for murdering my loved and only child. she was on her way to her holiday together with her little brother, her mom and her stepfather. she has been shot out of the sky in an unknown country where there is a war going on. so many lives lost, so much innocence taken. 80 young ones, three infanlts on board flight 17. just a baby, elaina mourned in bali along with her parents. sam we will liked gymnastics.

and another seen here riding a horse. there are teddy bears in their honor and parents with searing pain. these two said goodbye to their mom and dad in amsterdam. their grandparents would take them home for the start of a new school year. >> gentle, clever, beautiful kids. >> entire families gone together. john paulson and his wife died with their son martin and their little girl sherry. smiling in a family photo, young australians traveling with their parents. there are heavy hearts around the world for the young victims. >> the community is still in shock. a fairly deep level of shock. it was a well known family. i think people are still trying to handle the situation. >> tributes in the netherlands

for a fallen family of six. outside this dutch school, a memorial for a beloved teacher, her husband and three children. two sisters from another family. they died together. somebody's minnie mouse left behind. someone's monkey, memories of everyone. so many small reminders of a loss that will be felt for generations. alexandra field, cnn, new york. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

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. that's it for us. we'll see you back here tomorrow night. >> and stay with cnn throughout the night for the latest on flight 17 and the latest from gaza. taking the lives of israeli soldiers and palestinians in gaza as well. is there any hope for a cease-fire? >> and mh-17's flight recorders were handed to malaysian investigators. meanwhile, the passengers and crew begin their long journey home. >> and there's a new push for a