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tv   Forensic Files  CNN  July 22, 2014 12:00am-12:31am PDT

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a major explosion rocks gaza city. we have a look at the elaborate tunnels used by hamas to infiltrate israel. a look at the train used to recover the bodies from wreckage of flight 17 has been quote, held up, as they demand a thorough investigation. >> after the crime comes the cover-up. what we've seen is evidence tampering on an industrial scale. >> that was prime minister of australia, tony abbott, one of many demanding unfettered access to the crash site. welcome to cnn and cnn
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international. i'm hala gorani. on the day in jerusalem what could be an important day of diplomacy in the gaza/hamas conflict. we've already seen one huge explosion. take a look. this happened a few hours ago. a towering plume of smoke rising into the sky. these are, by the way, live images coming to us, i believe, of what is gaza in the background. perhaps from the israeli side of the border is my guess. live images just after 10 p.m. local time. cause of the blast undetermined. secretary of state john kerry is in cairo along with secretary-general, ban ki-moon. kerry will try to broker a
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truce, which hasn't happened in the past. let's talk about the situation on the ground. it is safe to say, if you look at the death toll, it is spiraling out of control. the gaza health ministry is now reporting 583 palestinians killed. the united nations is saying between 70 and 80% of the deaths in gaza are civilians. at least 120 are children. on the israeli side, 27 is the death toll. all soldiers. two civilians have been killed as well. let's go live to gaza. cnn's karl penhaul is standing by. karl, we were showing images of a big explosion in gaza to our viewers around the world. do we know what that was? >> reporter: it could, if you're saying those images were coming from the israeli side, as you were talking, there was a large explosion, probably a mile, mile and a half just southwest of
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where we are now. sounds like that could have been some artillery strike on a building in gaza city. throughout the night, throughout the morning, we've that strikes coming in from all sides. we know there are self-propelled howitzes, so israel is using those. we've also had naval gun boating pounding as well. this offensive very much going on. we've heard in the last few moment as well the israeli military saying they stillment to press their offensive in the eastern neighborhood of gaza because that is where they believe hamas fighters are on the ground. they are meeting ground resistance in hand-to-hand fighting and they believe there are hamas tunnels which militants are using to infill rate into israel. despite the cease-fire talks going on, the fight on the
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battlefield is still very much going on. >> let's talk about these cease-fire possibilities. are we closer today than we have been in the last several days? i know john kerry is in cairo. the last time the cease-fire failed, hamas said, nobody talked to us. are there any hamas representatives in all of this? >> from what we're seeing, possibly, yes, hamas has representatives there in cairo. the issue is, one is political, what level of confidence and trust is there. of course, hamas don't have any trust in the egyptian government in the hands of general -- now president because he is a staunch opponent of the muslim brotherhood. you have the united states involved there this time arnold. there is no love loss between brotherhood and united states.
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hamas claims united states backs israel and isn't a real mutual ash tart arbitrator. now israel has not got its job done yet. israel came into this, setting a number of limited goals. those were to shut down the rocket launchers and shut down the tunnels. as days go on, israeli military is taking more hits, more taush casualties, and they can't get their job done shutting down the tunnels and hamas rocket fire. hamas is in emboldened in guerrilla war far, and reports not verified that they may be holding a prisoner. there may be no need for them to call a cease-fire just yet. >> thank you very much. it is morning time. it's five minutes past 10 cloek.
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israeli military said it uncovered 23 hamas tunnels with 66 access points. martin savidge voice us why destroys these tunnels is one of the main offensives of israel in gaza. >> reporter: they say it's challenged militants in gaza is spilling outside of gaza into israel -- tunnels. they say two squads of hamas squads used those to infiltrate israel, possibly attending to launch an attack on civilians. israeli military video is said to show the first of five hamas fighters. crouching in the brush. recoiling after each shot. at one point the men can be seen reloading. as israelis return fire, they
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retreat when an israeli air fire hits. the incident forced residents to return home, tied up security forces for hour. the military says ten hamas militants were used and a number of israeli militants used. they say it's hampered israeli movement, allowing opponents to pop up unexpectedly. israeli military officials say lower gaza and suggest at least some of the war is being waged underground. so far israel says it's discovered 14 tunnels, each with multiple access points. engineers worked to methodically destroy them using earth-moving equipment or explosives. israel believes there are many more to be found.
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>> martin savidge joins me live from jerusalem. martin, the big question s at what point does israel consider this mission to take out the tunnels, to target hamas positions to gaza, that it is over? >> reporter: that's a good question. clearly destroying these tunnels and more since we put that report together, has been kill. some of the heavy artillery taking place this morning is in and around tunnels. they say hamas is fighting to try to preserve them. of course, israel is trying to destroy them. initially stated by the government they thought they could get rid of all the tunnels in three days. it's been at least five days and they clearly have many more to deal with. when israel can say they're done with the offensive, we don't know. if there is a cease-fire, the israeli government said they would adhere to it.
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declaring a cease-fire is never the problem really. it's making sure the cease-fire holds up and that's where israelis tend to be skeptical. they do not think la mass wants to stop. >> what about appetite within isra israel. even though everyday israelis might have prepared themselves, they are taking losses. 27 israeli casualties. at what point will they say this is too much for our side to be losing? >> yagain, you know, trying to measure something we're fully aware of. they aren't just conflicted over the high cost of civilian lives and blood over soldiers. some say, look, we need to reoccupy gaza once more.
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now saying because of the security concerns, and the reason is, the status of going into gaza or fighting in gaza have been ones that come about every few years. they believe a cease-fire is not going to edged the threat gaza opposes to them. maybe it requires more long-term presence of the military to root out hamas and then return gaza back to palestinian control. >> martin savidge, thanks very much in jerusalem. let's turn our attention to our other big stories. five days off downing of ma lie sha airlines flight 17. a plane is set to fly the remains on to amsterdam. dutch foreign ministry tells cnn it could be another 15 hours
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before the train arrives. for now the train remains in rebel-held territory in ukraine. meanwhile, flight 17 black box recorders are in hands of malaysian officials. on that front, i guess, it is progress. separatists handed them over in a public meeting on monday. you see that transfer there. united nations security council unanimously backed a res loo resolution demanding unrestricted access to mh17 crash site. it ramps up pressure on vladimir putin to use his influence over separatists in the area. russia didn't veto this, which was significant. it agreed to vote for the resolution once certain wording had been changed. foreign ministers of australia and holland say the handling of bodies and evidence is sparking widespread anger.
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>> grief is now accompanied by outrage as we witness grotesque violations at the crash site. this demands a response. that is why australia has brought this resolution to the security council. today the security council has responded. >> to my dying day i will not understand that it took so much time for the rescue workers to be allowed to do their difficult jobs and that human remains should be used in a political game. if someone around the table talks about a political game, this is the political game that's been played with human remains and it is despicable. >> there you saw it, anger at union security council. we'll get to a emergency meeting of foreign ministers in belgium
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russia has urged them on. russia has trained them. we know russia has equipped them, including anti-aircraft. so, given its direct influence over the separatists, russia and president putin in particular, has direct responsibility to compel them to cooperate with the investigation. that is the least that they can do. >> well, strong words from the american president, barack obama. he's not the only international leader putting pressure or trying to on russian president vladimir putin over downing of mh17 and its aftermath. we've been hearing from the dutch and australian foreign ministers. british prime minister david cameron and others expressing their outrage.
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what's the reaction in russia? what are we hearing from the kremlin in all of this, diana? >> reporter: the kremlin and russian president will have a meeting of security cabinet in a few hours' time. we are expected to hear a few statements from him. the russian line really you'll see in the media today is separatists have handed over the black boxes to authorities, malaysian investigators which surely should, in russia's eyes, have some impact on mitigating factors. the rush sham ambassador to malaysia spoke earlier today and said russia is cooperating with this international inspection. let's take a listen. >> investigation allowed by -- the reason for that is that the
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rebels, as we understand, do not trust the government of kiev. that's why they were reluctant to hand over anything -- the black boxes to the ukrainian side because they are afraid that the evidence will be tampered with. >> the rebels don't trust kiev, nor does anyone really in russia who listens to the kremlin propaganda line, which is that this was a missile probably fired by the ukrainian military and that the evidence presented by the u.s. and kiev is flimsy. and yesterday russian defense ministry presented their own evidence, hala, first of all saying there was a malaysian flight flying next to the
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malaysian flight with missiles. the question, why were they there? satellite images which they say buk missiles moving around the conflict area on the day of the incident. russia is saying, we're providing our evidence, your evidence does not add up and look at our evidence. the pieces of the puzzle are they difficult. the russian president have a people behind him who believe kiev is not to be trusted. it's very likely he'll turn around from that position, not moving from it since this began. >> even with increase the foreign sanctions? we know leaders are considering harsher sanctions on moscow. is it the sense in russia, no matter what sanctions come their way, it won't make a difference? u.s. politicians over the last
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24 hours, some of them, pushing for increased sanctions saying, it worked with iran, why wouldn't it work with russia? >> reporter: that's right. the argument being the only language mr. pulten understand is tougher sanctions but we're not there on particularly tougher sanctions to date. they have been shrugged off by the russian president and press. the russian president says we'll look to business ties elsewhere, invest in our own economy and build it up. what's as much a punish to us is a punishment to you. he has a cushion because he knows europe has very strong business ties to russia and may not be prepared to go that far on the sanctions line. second, russian economy is so intertwined with the global economy and he may have leeway.
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you sense there's an almost of bravadoe bavadoery. when people on the street begin to feel they don't have as much money in their pocket, that's when things will turn for mr. putin. but for now, he's still incredibly popular. >> you're mentioning close business ties, one thing i was interested to learn, germany, largest economy in europe, 300,000 german jobs depend directly on ties with russia. you're in germany. zemins, volkswagen. when we talk about europe imposing sanctions on russia, it's hurting europe almost as much, and this is not taking into account the energy relationship. so much gas and crude oil energy
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comes from russia as well. >> reporter: that's right. europe's energy -- a third of energy, 6,000 ties with german companies. angela merkel is backed into a corner by the business lobby. that's why eu sanctions have always lagged behind the u.s. for whom it is much easier to say we're going to be tough on russia because they don't have the same sorts of ties. it's not just germany. you have this deal for warships. david cameron, uk prime minister, said it's inconceivable france would go ahead with this contract with russia. in london you have russian billionaires. it's a mixed picture in europe
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and it's more difficult as dutch will ask them to be. >> one big french yt was completed at the time crimea was crushed. diana magnay live in moscow. still to come, thousands of police are standing by in indonesia as the country awaits the results of a hotly contested presidential election. it's been 100 days now since these school girls q.
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. welcome back to our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm hala gorani. official results of indonesia's presidential election could be in the coming hours. the vote was hotly contested with subianto claiming mass corruption. this is the world's largest muslim country. this is the first time ever handover from one elected government to another is
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happening in indonesia. to south korea where investigators are trying to figure out how un died, believed to head the shipping company which operated ferry sea wall. the 73-year-old billionaire's badly decomposed body was found in a plum field last month. a manhunt had been under way for months now. nigerian president is expected to meet the families of much of the kidnapped school girs in about two hours from now. it marks a sad milestone. it's exactly 100 days which these girls on this boko haram video were kidnapped. militants took 200 from their school. their whereabouts and condition are still unknown.
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now back to our story. there's an emergency meeting of eu foreign ministers held in belgium as anger over the crash of mh17 grows. the ministers are expected to discuss imposing more sanctions against russia. the lithuanian foreign minister joins me now live from brussels. foreign minister, can you hear me? >> yes, i do hear you. >> foreign minister, i wanted to ask you first about increased sanctions. what exactly is being discussed in brussels today as far as harsher sanctions against russia are concerned? >> we are discussing various sanctions and warnings, but unfortunately we don't see any deterioration. again today we will discuss these issues. heads of state guiding counsel
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to prepare another package. but we see last developments, downing of this civilian airplane by terrorist groups, really means something. and it's i believe turning point for us and also in our mind set. we'll see how discussion will go. >> now, you're saying essentially a new sanctions package is being discussed by foreign ministers in brussels today. can you share with us potentially what that sanctions package might include? >> first of all, it's just sort of say cook because we are talking about expansion on so-called second face, targeted measure against individuals. we are urging to get closer to the circle with decisions because so far we are not successful. also economic sanctions are on the table but not yet discussed. i believe at least it's our
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position, it's time to introduce arms embargo because it's not logical and continue trade arms with aggressor. >> foreign minister, it sounds like the words coming from officials in europe are a lot harsher than some of the sanctions being discussed. are you frustrated? would you like more economic punishment to come russia's way? >> yes, i think you're right. we are warning, expressing our concerns. at the same time we are talking, time for others, to say, strategic thinking and spreading some lies around the world. so, we should defend ourselves not only from the rockets but sometimes lies and this propaganda

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