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tv   Wolf  CNN  July 25, 2014 10:00am-11:01am PDT

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though, could come maybe some time tonight. we'll see. palestinian leaders have declared this a day of rage in the west bank. angry protests erupted overnight. today, after the shelling of that united nations school in gaza, at least four palestinians have been killed in the violent outbreaks in protests in the west bank. it's not clear who was behind the shelling of the u.n. school in gaza. an israeli spokesman says there is a possibility israeli forces hit the school but sources also say it could have come from a hamas rocket itself that fell short. an investigation by the israelis they say is now under way. let's take a closer look at some of the cease-fire proposal ans now in the works. hear what diplomatic sources are telling us. the one-week truce would be used to get medical supplies into gaza and get casualties out. the hope is that the parties would use the opening to begin formal negotiations on a more permanent truce. the u.s. is clearly taking the
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lead right now, drafting the text in consultations with the egyptians. qatar is serving as a main contact with hamas a long with turkey. hamas has not yet signed on to the plan. the israeli cabinet has been meeting in emergency session in tel aviv to discuss the cease-fire proposals. i want to bring in someone who has been attending those emergency meetings. he is the israeli minister of intelligence. he's here now with me in jerusalem. thank you for being on. how close are israel and hamas through the work of the united states and others to a cease-fire? >> it doesn't seem close at all. actually, will legitimize under certain conditions. one thing is clear, wolf, terrorism shouldn't be a peace and there should be no price for
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terrorism, for launching rockets on israeli civilians. >> it sounds to in, minister, correct me if i'm wrong, the negotiation, prime minister netanyahu, you and other cabinet ministers have been have it doesn't sound likely the latest proposal for a one-week cease-fire something israel is going to accept? >> israel was ready in the past and will be ready in the future if necessary for cease-fire. israel was ready to accept the egyptian proposal for an immediate cease-fire. it was rejected by hamas. but one thing is clear, any -- the goal should be a real enduring cease-fire and bringing security and confidence to the people of israel and to the people of gaza. in order to do this, you have to demilitarize gaza. gaza was supposed to totally demilitarized.
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that was a commitment signed on the white house lawn that gaza will remain forever demilitarized. it was captured by hamas organizations very similar to al qaeda or isis in iraq. and now gaza should be demilitarized again. otherwise, there will be no real solution to the situation. >> what about a one-week temporary humanitarian cease-fire? that seems to be on the table phase one. and then all of these other issues could be discussed subsequently. >> look, i hope that we can find a diplomatic solution that will enable the demille tarization of gaza once more for the benefit of both israelis and gazans. if gaza would remain demilitarized there would be no rockets launches and suffering in gaza. this is the first prospect of any real solution in gaza. we have to insist on the demi e
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demilitarization of gaza. please don't forget, it's true, isis are fighting in iraq and in syria and al qaeda all over the world. islamic jihad and hamas are fighting mainly against israel but also those are the organizations, islamic zealots, terrorists, and nobody should appease such kind of terrorists and assaults on civilians. >> so where exactly -- because it sounds to me like secretary kerry wants to announce there's at least a temporary cease-fire for a week or so. is that going to happen? >> i don't know, but i think -- and i'm confident secretary kerry's well aware, you have to be very careful not to empower hamas vis-a-vis palestinian authority, not just the palestinian authority, but also egypt and the whole arab league are actually supporting the egyptian proposal and not the
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other approach because that is about empowering the terrorists, empowering -- >> because qatar has been the intermediary between the u.s. -- the u.s. doesn't talk to hamas because it regards it as a terrorist organization, but qatar has been talking to hamas, together with others, including the palestinian authority, right, palestinian authority president mahmoud abbas met with the leader of hamas in qatar. so i'm not exactly clear what, if anything, is going to emerge from this current diplomatic frenzy toward a cease-fire -- >> let's not forget, maybe the arab league can handle -- the egyptian, which egypt is the major, the most influential arab country, can make the mediation. qatar is very dangerous. qatar, like iran, is the main supporter of hamas. hamas is getting most of its rockets from iran and most of its financial aid from qatar. so this is a country that supports terrorism. not just against israel but
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against other terrorist groups in the middle east. if qatar, one day, will change its attitude against terrorism, then qatar will be more legitimized. but we cannot ignore the fact that qatar hosts the chief leader of this terrorist organization. qatar, like iran, iran is supplying hamas with rockets illegally, against u.n. security council decisions and against all previous agreements and qatar is supplying their money. now, if we like to have any hope to future peace process in the middle east, such groups of terrorism, of terrorists, cannot be legitimized. don't forget, hamas capture gaza from the palestinian authority. killed several hundred palestinian fatah, official palestinians, exact likely isis did in iraq. >> minister, i must say, going
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into this interview, i was a little bit optimistic there would be a one-week cease-fire but what i'm hear, knowing what hamas want, knowing what qatar want, it doesn't sound like much of a deal. >> only one thing will work for the benefit of both israelis and palestinians, the demille tarization of gaza. if gaza will be demilitarized, we will be able to lift what is so-called the restrictions, and people, both on the israeli side of the border won't suffer from rockets and terrorist activities and people in gaza will be able to improve their standard of living. this is only solution. all other proposals don't touch the core of the problem. the fact that gaza was supposed to remain demilitarized and there are thousands of missiles in gaza. >> i know you're going back to that security cabinet meeting in
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tel aviv. yuval is it steinitz is the minister of intelligence in israel. now, a reaction to what we just heard, a possible cease-fire deal, although it sounds like that is increasingly more remote. we'll check in with former prime minister nabil shaath. we'll get his reaction to what we just heard. meanwhile, there have been angry protests that broke out today on the west bank. palestinian leaders called for a day of rage in response to the deadly shelling of that united nations school in gaza. there are also violent protests. at least four palestinians have been killed. cnn's karl penhaul is joining us from gaza city. do we know more about what happened that the u.n. school? you were there overnight. because there have been so many casualties. >> so many casualties, so many different versions of events of what went on, wolf.
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the united nations has promised they won't let this incident disappear in the fog of war. this afternoon, the first u.n. team headed to the school there in northeast gaza to try and gather some preliminary details. they said they were on the ground a very short time because despite, in their words, having informed the israeli military of their intentions to carry out that investigation, the area is still in a cop bat zone and the u.n. spokesman told us that because of heavy, heavy gunfire in the area, that preliminary investigation team had to leave. from the wording, it is seen that they were blaming israeli gunfire, but i think we shouldn't be drawing infenrence here. we know overnight the israeli military told us yesterday there was fighting in the area. the israeli military told us its folks came under fire from hamas militants and they responded to try and dispel some of that
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threat, which they said was in the area around the school. that of course stopped well short of taking responsibility for the munitions that apparently fell on that school. the united nations, for its part, still embroiled in this debate over whether the israeli military did permit an humanitarian window to allow those civilians to be evacuated. initially, they said they were allowed to evacuate. the israeli military said they did permit that. when i talked back to the united nations this morning, they said, we have no clue what the israeli military is talking about, they simply did not response to our desperate pleas to allow civilians out of there. of course to put this all in perspective, the ub .n. is accusing both the warring sides of violating the neutrality of civilians. we know the u.n. has accused hamas twice in the past ten days of storing rockets in two
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different schools. we also know the united nations has accused the israeli military twice in two days of shelling two other u.n. schools, wolf. >> i must say, karl, it doesn't look like -- as i said earlier, ways a little more hopeful there would be a cease-fire based on that interview i just conducted with israel's minister of intelligence, yuval steinitz. we'll see what happens in the next hour or two. we'll see what secretary kerry says. we'll get a statement from the israeli prime minister as well. but this fighting may continue, at least for the time being. karl penhaul, being careful in gaza. the high death toll is provoking a strong backlash around the world. muslims are marking the last friday of the ramadan with demonstrations of solidarity with the palestinians of gaza. the marches are likely to grow if the fighting in gaza continues. israeli police have boosted their presence in jerusalem. the jerusalem post reports the officers have been told to expect violence in and around
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jerusalem. the gaza fighting has sparked some anti-semitic attacks. a soccer game in austria was suddenly interrupted when people with palestinian flags ran to the field and began abeittackin israeli players in austria. the military confirmed one of its soldiers listed as missing in action was killed in action. the soldier, hamas had claimed it was holding him after capturing him during an ambush, but a committee led by the committee's shechief rabbi says he's been classified as a soldier killed in action whose burial site is unknown. the israelis say he is dead. still ahead, we're going to get palestinian reaction to the diplomatic efforts to work on a cease-fire between israel and hamas. the former palestinian foreign minister nabil shaath is standing by. and russia appears to be flexing
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steinitz. he was pessimistic, he didn't think israel was going to sign on to this latest proposal. he says it's a proposal qatar put forward. he says israel is not ready to reward hamas. what do you know about where the cease-firest es efforts stand r now? >> there is no war against hamas. there is a war against the palestinian people. 1,000 palestinians in gaza have already been killed. 700 of them are women, children and elderly civilians. schools are being bombed. hospitals and mosques are being bombed. the victim is the palestinian people. and the war is against the palestinian people. and the soldiers of israel are inside the gaza strip, among the houses and destroyed buildings of the palestinian people. the cease-fire is now really the total responsibility of mr. netanyahu. he must response today to mr. kerry and tell him yes, he accepts the egyptian initiative
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with the additions made by mr. kerry after his investigations that a cease-fire should be starting tonight and that in the next few days agreements should be reached to really end the siege of gaza and proceed to a normal and safe life for the palestinian people in gaza. this is really what's on mr. netanyahu's table. and this is what we are waiting a response for. this is a proposal that all the palestinians and mr. mahmoud abbas and the palestinian authority are backing. and you could see that the palestinians, the west bank, are all really united behind this cease-fire and its effect and it's mr. netanyahu's call to say yes tonight. >> basically, what i think i heard from the israeli minister of intelligence is they're ready for a cease-fire, but they don't like these new conditions that
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have been attached to the initial egyptian proposal. i'm not exactly sure what those new conditions are. maybe you could tell our viewers what else would be in this immediate new proposal that secretary kerry has put forward with the assistance of qatar and others. >> reporter: i mean, will you just repeat the last part of your question? >> what are the additional conditions, in addition to a cease-fire, hamas no longer fires rockets and missiles into israel, israel stops firing at hamas targets in gaza. what else would be included in this initial proposal for a cease-fire that the israeli cabinet is now considering? >> well, the proposal that was made by egypt and supported by mr. kerry will basically allow an immediate cease-fire and few days afterwards to have meetings in cairo between israelis and
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egyptians and americans and palestinians to reach a normal life for gazans after the cease-fire, ie, a peaceful and safe gaza for its people and an end of siege and a big effort to rebuild gaza that has been destroyed for the third time by the israelis. wa what's on the table is not to give mr. netanyahu time to destroy what he has not destr destroyed, to continue the presence of his army in gaza is totally unacceptable. he must withdraw his army in order that we can proceed to the day after the cease-fire. >> would israel be allowed to keep its troops in gaza during this first week of this interim phase, shall we call it, humanitarian pause in the fighting? would israeli troops be allowed to remain in gaza, or would they have to pull out?
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>> no, the israelis want to keep -- to stay with their forces in gaza, so that they can continue to destroy and to bomb and to acquire. this is not a cease-fire. this is the declared objective by people like victor leibieber and the right wing coalition of mr. netanyahu. they don't want the israeli army to pull out without going back with something tangible to his people to justify the thousands killed by the palestinians and the 50 or 60 israeli soldiers killed. that is, they want to stay in gaza to continue their organization. >> so i want to make sure i fully understand. when the israelis say they'll do all those things, they'll ease what the palestinians call the siege of gaza, but only if gaza
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is demille tarridemilitarized, accept the demilitarization of gaza? >> no, that's not on the table. what's on the table is a cease-fire with their international inspection, whatever other means. it does not mean the demille tarization of gaza, nor the demilitarization of gaza, for that matter. the issue is the enforcement of a cease-fire. that enforce moerrcement of the cease-fire can only become possible if gaza is allowed a normal peaceful life for its people. >> nabil shaath, we'll stay in very close touch with you. these are very delicate moments we're watching unfold right now. very tenuous. so much at stake when we see what's going on. i must say, i've said it now a few times, it doesn't look very
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hopeful to me. we'll see what the israeli government announces after their cabinet meeting. we'll see what secretary kerry announces. i know you want a cease-fire obviously and we'll see what happens. nabil shaath, thanks very much for joining us. coming up, another disturbing revelation about russia's intentions in ukraine. intelligence says they are looking to transfer more weapons possibly today. we'll have a live report from the pentagon.
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the pentagon says russia president vladimir putin is preparing to send more powerful weaponry into ukraine, perhaps as early as today. let's turn to our pentagon correspondent barbara starr. she's standing by. what are you learning, barbara? >> wolf, pentagon reporters had an update earlier today. we've been told by the spokesman the intelligence now indicates russia is preparing. the movement could be imminent, as soon as today, to send something called 220 millimeter multiple launch rocket systems into ukraine. these are some of russia's heaviest weapons. large projectile warheads. they can go about 20 miles or so. the sense is that russia is going to send perhaps half a dozen, a dozen systems into ukraine, try and get them over to the pro-russian separatists and get them to take back some of the territory they may be losing to the government forces which have really been on the move in the last couple of weeks.
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this would be another destabilizing escalation by putin according to pentagon officials. what they want to see, of course, is russia ratchet back. instead, russia is escalating. and they still see those russian artillery pieces on the border. there is also intelligence indicating that they have, indeed, been firing across the border from russia into ukraine. so another day, wolf, when none of the military signs look like anything is deescalating in that area. wolf. >> tensions clearly continuing. thanks very much, barbara starr at the pentagon for that update. meantime, outrage over how pro-rebel rebels are handling flight 17's crash site is intensifyi ining around the wor. ukrainian and dutch officials say access to the debris field continues to be restricted by pro-russian rebels. members of a small european monitoring group allowed in this week report personal belongings
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including credit cards and passports suddenly appeared in the search area today. more than half those aboard flight 17 were from the netherlands. the minister says he's going to get answers as to how this occurred. he says he's talked to russian president putin six time since the crash. putin isn't just facing possible questions about moscow's possible role in this tragedy, he's also getting hit with sanctions over the crisis. today, the european union announced sanctions targeting dozens of individuals and companies. coming up, u.s. jetliners have resumed flying into tel aviv even as fighting continues. will the faa potentially ban flights in and out of ben gurion international airport? we're going to washington for a live report. of things great. but parallel parking isn't one of them. you're either too far from the curb. or too close to other cars... it's just a matter of time until you rip some guy's bumper off.
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sunday. joining us now from washington is michael o'hanlan, a senior fellow in foreign policy with the brookings insurance tugs. i don't know if you heard the top of the hour when i interviewed the minister of intelligence for israel yuval steinitz. i asked him if a cease-fire looked good. he says it doesn't seem close. his words, a cease-fire doesn't seem close. i had been pretty upbeat it was going to happen. now i'm increasingly downbeat that it doesn't look like it's going to happen. what's your sense based on what you know? >> well, wolf, the other thing i would add is the op-ed in "the washington post" by the former israeli ambassador to the united states who basically said we have to let the israelis do what they have to do and defeat hamas. essentially, implied a widening
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of the war. so when you recognize his closeness to a lot of key israeli decisionmakers, because he was ambassador, i believe, for netanyahu, i think you've got to get that signals the likelihood of an extented campaign, at least in the eyes of what that former ambassador believes should happen. netanyahu is going to be weighing other considerations. if i had to put my money on this, i would say i think it may continue a while longer. >> yeah, that's what it certainly sounds like to me. my senses, based on my private conversations here in jerusalem with top israelis, they don't want to do anything that would reward hamas and let hamas emerge from a cease-fire as if they had won in this battle with israel. that's one of the problems the israelis see, especially since they don't trust qatar at all in the role its playing. my sense is they're going to continue this military campaign and try to destroy as much of hamas's military capability as
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they can. that could undermine a bit the u.s. relationship with israel because it looks like kerry is ready to accept this kind of temporary cease-fire. give me your analysis. >> well, i think you're right, but i think also one more factor, which unfortunately points to what you and i were talking about a minute ago, is israel sometimes feels with hamas or hezbollah, it can't really defeat the military, it can't really disarm the military. all it cab do is buy some time. at the same moment it's doing that, send a very strong message. you know, basically don't mess with israel. because if you do, you and your people will suffer more than we will. and that was of course much of the spirit of the air campaign a few years ago against hezbollah in lebanon, where israel was seen as extending the war and broadening the war. and part of its purpose was not just to weaken hezbollah's rock rocketry, but also to send a message to hezbollah's supporters, if you support this
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group, your neighborhoods will be damaged. it wasn't a deliberate attack on civilians but it certainly was a willingness to hurt the infrastructure and set back the economy in lebanon and i think that's some of the same thing with what israel's doing now in the gaza strip. >> if secretary of state kerry who's now in cairo getting ready to make some sort of statement if he says, look, i've tried, unfortunately, we haven't yet achieved a cease-fire, in the meantime, i'm flying back to washington, what would that say about u.s. influence, u.s. authority in this part of the world where i am, which is the middle east? >> well, wolf, you know, i'm frankly less concerned about what he does this moment than i am about the fact the peace process failed. on the one hand, that's not news. it's been failing for decades between israelis and palestinians. so there's nothing about america's supposed decline right now that's changing that because it's been a reality for a long time. on the other hand, when you
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compound that with all the other crises in the region, it certainly does send a broader message. the last thing the u.s. needs right now is yet another appearance of a fecklessness. let's remind the world and your viewers that secretary kerry just had a nice accomplish innocent in afghanistan and i think also we're doing pretty well in asia and so in the rest of the world at least the united states is still showing some pretty good influence and leadersh leadership. but i take your point in regard to the gaza crisis right now, i'm not sure the united states has the levers to make this happen. >> you're right about those other places around the world. here in the middle east, you see what's going on, obviously, between israel and hamas and gaza, you see what's continuing, the slaughter in syria, basically the dismantling of iraq, what's going on with iran. there's a lot of problems in this part of the world. libya in total chaos. at least in the middle east, north africa, big chunks of it, there's a crisis that needs to
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be resolved one way or another. let's hope it can be. michael o'hanlan back in washington, see you soon back there, thanks very much for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, so will the faa, the federal aviation administration, once again ban u.s. flights to tel aviv? carriers still have the okay for now but the faa closely watching the situation in and ben gurion airport outside of tel aviv. we have a report from washington next.
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welcome back. i'm wolf blitzer reporting from jerusalem. we heard from israel's minister of intelligence, yuval steinitz and i asked him if negotiations designed to achieve a one-week cease-fire for humanitarian purposes put forward by secretary of state john kerry who's now in cairo could be accepted by israel, and he gave us this assessment, listen to israel's intelligence minister who had just emerged from that inner security cabinet meeting to join us. listen to this. how close are israel and hamas through the work of the united states and others to a cease-fire? >> it doesn't seem close at all. hamas and qatar want a cease-fire that will legitimize terrorism, will legitimize armament of gaza and actually will legitimize, under certain conditions, launching rockets at
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israeli civilians. one thing is clear, terrorism shouldn't be a peace and there should be no price for terrorism for launching rockets on israeli civilians. >> sounds to me, minister, correct me if i'm wrong, the deliberations prime minister netanyahu and you and your other ministers have been having, it doesn't sound likely that this latest proposal for a one-week cease-fire something israel is going to accept? >> israel was ready in the past and will be ready in the future if necessary to make a cease-fire. israel was ready to accept the egyptian proposal. it was rejected by hamas. but one thing is clear. any target, the goal should be a real enduring cease-fire and security to the people of israel, also to the people of gaza. in order to achieve this, you have to demilitarize gaza.
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gaza was supposed to be totally demilitarized. this was a commitment signed on the white house lawn 20 years ago that gaza will remain forever ddemilitarized. it was captured by organizations similar to al qaeda or isis in iraq. and now gaza should be demall tarrized again. otherwise, there will be no real solution to the situation. >> what about a one-week temporary humanitarian cease-fire? that seems to be on the table phase one. and then all of these other issues could be discussed subseque subsequently? >> so you get the point, he makes the point in response to that other question that i just asked that israel is not going to award hamas and certainly does not like the additional conditions that qatar has put forward as part of this interim deal. let's bring in elice labbette,
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our foreign affairs koes s correspondent. it doesn't look good for the secretary of state. he and ban ki-moon, the u.n. secretary-general, are about to make a major statement in cairo. based on what we heard from this israeli cabinet minister who joined us right from that inner security cabinet meeting, doesn't look like the israelis are going along with this deal. >> well, wolf, i think you have to separate the idea of this one-week humanitarian truce. if you remember, i think later last week or earlier this week there was, you know, a very temporary lull in the fighting so that both sides could get humanitarian supplies into gaza, so that some of the dead could be cleared out of the rubble. there's a real humanitarian situation going on on the ground right now. i think both sides want a stop to fighting. clearly, israel has other objectives here. the larger issue of demilitarizing hamas, that's not
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even on the table. secretary of state kerry is trying to get the one-week truce. and sources are telling me they hope that could be the opening to some of the israeli demands and the palestinian tee demands on the easing of the border crossings. but also on the demilitarization that the minister is talking about. >> we're just getting this in from reuters news agency. reuters now saying that the israeli cabinet has rejected this proposal for this cease-fire put forward, put forward by secretary of state john kerry. the proposal put forward by kerry. but they are seeking additional modifications in the proposal. so it might not necessarily be the last word. the proposal put forward, reuters said by kerry last night in his phone conversation with prime minister netanyahu. looks like the cabinet is rejecting that. but they're leaving the door open, according to throis reute account, seening how far they
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can go. maybe this is still a work in progress, elise, and maybe secretary kerry is not yet ready to make a major statement, but go ahead, you've covered him for a long time. >> well, one of the things that i -- >> i think we just lost our connection with elise. she's at our national security conference in aspen, colorado. we'll try to reconnect with her, try to follow up on this report. we'll get more information. we're staying on top of the breaking news. will there or won't there be a cease-fire between israel and hamas? we'll be right back. ♪
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recapping the breaking news we are following here in jerusalem. reuters now quoting sources as saying the israeli cabinet meeting in emergency session has rejected the latest proposals for a cease-fire, and is asking for additional modifications. the proposals put forth by secretary of state john kerry, getting ready to make a statement with ban ki-moon, the u.n. secretary general. earlier we heard from one of the top cabinet ministers, the minister of intelligence telling us when i asked if the
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cease-fire looks good, it doesn't seem close. that's a direct quote. it doesn't seem close. we are waiting for an official statement from the israeli government. once we get that, we will share it. we are waiting for secretary kerry to make a statement in cairo. meantime, federal aviation administration in washington is closely monitoring the overall security situation at tell aviv and may change the ban on flights coming in and out. pamela, what are u.s. officials telling you? >> officials are keeping a close eye on what's going on in tel aviv. we are learning as soon as the ban was put in place tuesday, intense discussions were under way among the faa with israel, and over the course of that time, israel was able to share more information about airport defenses to convince u.s. officials it would be safe for flights to resume. at the same time, israel adjusted protocols and
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procedures at the request of the u.s. wolf, officials we have been speaking with say after weighing the information it had, the faa lifted the ban 36 hours after it was imposed. that said, the faa will closely monitor the situation and reissue the flying ban to tel aviv if conditions warrant. wolf? >> if the conditions warrant. key words. if conditions warrant. right now, travel to and from the airport, flights coming in and going out almost back to noofrmt it will take awhile to get back to normal. pamela brown, thanks for that report. when we come back, more on the breaking news out of israel. will there be a cease-fire or won't there be a cease-fire? it is looking increasingly unlikely at least for now. ♪
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expensive. that's it for me. thanks for watching, our special breaking news coverage of the search for a cease-fire between israel and hamas continues now with brooke baldwin. and here we go. top of the hour, i am brooke baldwin. we are closely monitoring the situation in the mideast and begin with breaking news that reuters is reporting that israel is rejecting a cease-fire proposal, asking for modifications. i can tell you the u.s. secretary of state john kerry will announce whether he was able to broker a one week humanitarian cease-fire sunday between israel and hamas. again, reuters is reporting israel, the cabinet there rejecting a deal as it is in its current state. we are