tv Erin Burnett Out Front CNN July 25, 2014 4:00pm-5:01pm PDT
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p.m. eastern for special coverage from here? jerusalem. thanks for watching. i'm wolf blitzer in jerusalem. see you monday in the "the situation room" as well. right now the news continues on cnn. erin burnett "outfront" starts erin burnett "outfront" starts right now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com breaksing news the first images of the plane crash that killed 116 people. hamas and israel agree to a temporary ceasefire and new details into the investigation on who shot down mh17. russia could be sending more rocket launchers across the border to ukraine as early as right now. let's go "outfront." good evening, everyone, i'm
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erin burnett. "outfront" we begin with breaking news, two u.s. fighter jets escorted a canada to panama flight back to toronto after the passenger threatened the plane with 181 passengers and six crew members on board. sung wings airline flight 772. it left toronto's main airport this morning and was over west virginia when an agitated customer made a direct threat against the aircraft. about 45 minutes into the flight to panama city. that's what the canadian carrier is telling us at the moment. we have more on this story throughout the hour. we're going to bring that to you. but we have more breaking news. an board a flight that disintegrated over the country of mali. 116 souls were on board and there are no survivors. the earth scorched from where
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the plane went down. the area as we have reported on this show when we travelled there is a desolate, difficult terrain. it is home to al qaeda-linked militants which is a concern for investigators now on the ground. officials have been able to recover one of the black boxes a crucial piece of debris that should help investigators discover what brought this jet down. was it weather or was it terror? joe johns is outfront. >> reporter: the first pictures from the scene show a trail of charred debris out of place on the african landscape and the plane in a disintegrated state. military units restricted access to the area. there was not much to work with for investigators as they tried to determine the identities of the victims and what caused the crash. there were more citizens from france on the plane than any other country.
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the french president francois hollande. >> we want to find out what happened. >> reporter: shortly before the crash the pilots road to change course because of a dangerous storm but there are questions about whether an act of terror was responsible. >> translator: terrorist groups are in the zone. we know these groups are hostile to western interest. though authorities were skeptical that islamist militants had the technology to bring down a plane from that altitude. but families still in shock wait for details. among the missing, the wife and two sons of this man from canada. he bought tickets for them. they were headed to join him after two years apart. when he spoke here, the airline had not confirmed whether they had boarded the ill-fated plane
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but he hadn't heard from them. my wife said she'd prefer to come sooner. i didn't want to change the i said, it will be okay. authorities also said ten members of the same family from france perished in the crash include four grandchildren. they were on what was described as a trip of a lifetime to celebrate the wedding of a relative in africa. >> these stories are just so horrible. do you know anything at this point? were there issues with the plane itself? >> reporter: on the plane, the answer is know but the md-83 is an older plane and some of the aviation analysts who talked about it have pointed at that as something to look at. boeing which inherited the md-83s issued a statement today
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and they stand ready to give technical assistance to the government authorities who are investigating the crash. >> and now miles o'brien and david soucie and tom foreman. i know we have been covering multiple plane crashes and you see these human lives and the wreckage. and it's just so hard to -- understand. and i know we're just getting a first look at the wreckage here. from your expertise what does it look like might happened? >> you have to take the caveat that we have to keep the blinders off here. but almost everything i've seen on this leads to the almost enescapable conclusion that this was an aircraft that flew one of the worst thunderstorms on earth in this intertropical convergence zone. and with huge towering thunderstorms, 49,000 feet at
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the top. a lot of heavy precipitation, hail, heavy turbulence, all of those things conspire to bring an aircraft down. what upsets me the most is this is the same kind of weather that air france 447 flew into in 2009. what's bad is when we don't learn the lesson. >> i'm thinking of a time i'm flying around 50,000 feet in this area and the plane nosedived and the pilot said we hit something we never hit before. and they are huge and terrifying. the weather must have been horrible from what anyone could see. there were a group of herders in that area. they claim they saw the flight crash after being struck by lightning. you have been looking into that. is that possible? >> it is possible. it is not common, erin. if you look at what can happen to a plane when it is hit by lightning, these planes are made to resist it as much as possible.
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but there can be damage to the airframe itself. it can warp pieces of metal and mess up hinges. it can affect the airframe. usually not. but when an airplane is hit from the outside one-third a half the time there is some sort of damage to the outside of it. beyond that there is a question of the electronics on board. these are all shielded. but even if you have a strong electrical current outside and it doesn't penetrate, it can make this flicker for a while. there are miles of wire. it can flicker and knock some systems out. they have redundant systems but that is always a danger. and the important one is fuel. when the plane is packed with fuel out on the wings. in any way, shape, or form a spark gets into it you have the makersings of a catastrophic event there and one of the concerns as hauls been, older
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planes have had more times for things to get worse and corrode. >> it's frightening because you know, i feel like i've heard it before. being on an airplane account get hit by lightning it's going to be safe and planes get hit by lightning. they fly through storms. this could happen and it could bring down a plane is terrifying. and today a jet was forced to make an emergency landing in spain because it was hit by lightning. >> the one in spain was a precautionary landing. and that happens quite a lot. i have been in lightning storms several times in the cockpit. you can see the lightning go through and the st. elmo's fire down the middle of the aisle. but in every one i investigatored. the one coming in is that big and the one going out is that big. that lightning is going to go
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right through. it's not grounded. you have heard standing in water is more dangerous than the rubber. that is true. there is nothing this aircraft is grounded to. when it is not well grounded and you have a space where it jumps. >> you say that is just the one in a very small chance. but that could happen to anything. as opposed to a plane that might have been old or something like. that miles, so does this change, again, how people should think about this whole concept for pilots and air traffic controllers. they are under all this pressure with thunderstorms around the world. get the planes out, fly, do another route. i want to get where i'm going. does this change that? >> this is the nub of the issue, erin. a prudent, safe pilot does not fly through a thunderstorm, period. i wouldn't put lightning at the top of the list of concerns, turbulence, hail, heavy rain, icing are the big concerns.
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but a prudent pilot doesn't fly in because of all those things. when you is a storm that is 100 miles across you might not have enough fuel to get to your destination and you are under all kinds of pressure in management. you have to have the authority as a captain to do that and not face recrimination. >> you have been looking into how planes are equipped to handle this. how are they? >> i want to talk about something that david just mentioned a minute ago there. the modern defense of these planes is based on a concept from the 1800s called a farraday cage. the lightning will track alock the skin and dutch off from the wing or tail and doesn't penetrate into the plane. but the one thing we have to watch for in this investigation
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is a rare phenomenon called positive lightning. 5% of the time lightning is positive. and that can occur, five, six, seven, ten miles from the storm front and is it much more powerful than normal lightning, up to a billion volts. that might be considered in this case even if they were going around the storm. >> 5% is a very high chance. "outfront" next, israel and hamas agreeing to a 12-hour ceasefire. israel's ambassador to the united states accused cnn of biassed reporting. we look into it for you. american officials say the russians could be sending more missile launchers across the border of ukraine tonight. did you know, your eyes can lose vital nutrients as you age?
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deadly protests erupted today in what palestinian leaders described a day of rage. the protests in response to the shelling of a united nations shelter in gustav yesterday. 16 were killed and 200 injured as an explosion hit a refuge for families escaping the violence. carl, what is the latest on the ground tonight? >> reporter: erin, as you say in the last hour or so, both hamas and islamist jihad are sending sms or text messages to palestinians across the gustav strip saying they accepted a 12 hour humanitarian pause, but effectively a ceasefire from the hours of 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. according to hamas. that is a little bit of than hour's difference from the israeli proposition but a
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commitment they will not fire rockets into israel or engage in ground to ground combat with israeli troops during that time. this will be a vital window for civilians to get out of the combat zones and danger areas. of course what the israeli military will be keen to do is not give enough time to the militant factions to regroup and reorganization and plan future attacks on the israeli military as soon as that ceasefire ends. >> i know that very concern is a very big concern of the former ambassador to israel. we're going to go back to carl in a moment. i want carl to weigh in on the coverage of the crisis. i spoke to the israeli ambassador to the united states last night. he criticized this network's reporting. >> i think it would be a disservice to your viewers if a
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reporter from gustav not to mention in the last week we had two school where we had rockets found in the schools -- >> these are two u.n. schools? >> that's correct. that's publicly available information and an important fact for your reporter to mention. >> we agree. it would have been a disservice for cnn not to mention that rockets were found in schools. and carl did report that information on cnn yesterday. >> on the hamas militant side also in the last few days, the united nations has accused the militants of using at least two schools to store weapons and to store their rocket arsenals in as well. >> the u.n. has also said, though, on the other hand they have seen twice hamas rockets stored in u.n. schools. >> we asked the ambassador to come back on the program and talk about it. but in tel aviv is the former
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ambassador to the united states, and paula hancocks is in new york. carl, you have been to that school has the been bombed and report on the conflict from the ground does it surprise you to hear an accusation like the one you just heard? >> it doesn't surprise me not in this conflict or any conflict where there are go warring sides. each side has its version of the truth. we are trying to cut through opinion and cut through also propaganda and the messaging from the various factions and drill down the facts and the facts of that were that we throughout the course of the day and these past few days have reported that the united nations on two occasion has accused of hamas of storing weapons in its schools. we should also remember that the
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united nationss has accused the israeli military shelling two other schools twice in the last three days. those are also important facts because the u.n. is accusing both of the warring sides in this conflict of ignoring the neutrality of civilians and ignoring the neutrality of internationally recognized symbols like the united nations. but since messaging began we know propaganda is part of the war, erin. >> and the ambassador made charges about cnn's coverage. we wanted to fact check them for our viewers. i wanted to play this one for you. >> do you not think it's relevant to report on cnn that the secretary general of the united nations yesterday warned against the use of u.n. schools and shelter for rocket missile depots of hamas. >> it relevant. >> i have been listening for two hours of reports on cnn.
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i have seen split screens, horrible pictures, horrible pictures that any decent human being would be horrified by but not heard a single person say what i just said to you now. i think that does a disservice to your viewers to not give them the context they need. >> it relevant. wolf blitzer was on the show in the two hours during the time he was talking about. >> a day ago, the united nations secretary general demand that the militants stop endangering civilians by placing weapons in u.n. schools. >> do you think the coverage has been fair? >> i think first of all, the ambassador is doing his job. it's tough for all of us. we are pay disturb [ indiscernible ] which is not only kill [ indiscernible ].
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>> we're going to work on this connection. you are coming in every other word and given what you are talking about it is only fair for every word to be heard. let me bring you in paula so we can get that connection clearly. the u.n. says hamas puts weapons in schools. israel says we give advance worning when we are going to bomb in civilian communities. we warn the civilians to get out. the question of whether a warning followed by a bombing that ends up killing innocent civilians is enough is the question that the international community is debating. and i asked the ambassador about. that i wanted to play that for you. >> you did reach out to the u.n. three days ago and told them to evacuate the school because of what you just said. would israel have taken the time to confirm that those children
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were out of the school before you fired? send someone in to look or do you think it's okay you issued the warning and fired. >> i think you have no basis for making the statement you just made. of course we wouldn't fire directly but i don't know what happened in that school. we gave people days to get out of that area. >> this is the big issue. >> absolutely. and, israel, does give some warnings in many of these occasion. but palestinian civilians are being given time to move to another area. where do they go? yes, there are certain areas in gaza that are seeing more ferocious fighting than other areas. but we have had our teams on the ground speaking to people hoe have moved and moved again and they have still been caught up in the fighting. the fact is they cannot leave gaza. there is a blockade on gaza not just from israel also by egypt. many of these people are not
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able to leave. they go to the one place they think they are safe which is a u.n. school, the only place in gaza they think they are safe. and yesterday just proved that even that is not a safe place. there is nowhere within gaza that palestinian civilians can be safe at the moment. >> i want to get your response to. that but i want to get your response to the question before, that is do you think the coverage here has been fair? >> i think it is an intensely complex situation. israel is facing an enemy in hamas which has not only military tactics but it has a media strategy. the media is very much part of this complex. hamas knows it cannot destroy israel by rockets and tunnels. israel is not going to be wiped off the map. but hamas wants to drag israel into a complex in gaza to get israel to kill large numbers of palestinian civilians.
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journalists quite naturally will want to capture those images. the images are tragic. they are lurid but also make headlines. hamas has no compunction of putting the images of dead children on air. israel doesn't allow injured israeli soldiers on air. it's an eth call issue for us. hamas hopes there is a reason for this. the reason is that translates into international pressure, riots on the streets of europe and it ends up in the security council and the human rights commission and israel gets condemned and sanctioned and israel can't defend itself. that is the ultimate goal of the tactic. >> carl, you were shaking your
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head in response there to michael. >> i think any reporter and i think any of our colleagues would believe that it was obscene to suggest that we are showing the bodies of wounded, the dead and the dying to make headlines. that i don't believe is the case with any of the cnn teams or with any of our journalistic colleagues in this region. at no time have we received in instructions from any of the militant factions here in gaza telling us what we can take pictures of or what we can't take pictures of. occasionally if we are in hospital sometimes there is an instruction not to film a particular patient. that we understand is because they may be a militant fighter. that is for operational security reasons, not our choice. but we are under no pressure to or not to film any patients, to film children or not to film children or men, women, or
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children we have been wounded or killed in these strikes. we also know that regardless of any warnings that have been given by any of the warring sides for civilians to move out of their homes there is a set of rules of war. those are called the geneva conventions. and we know that article 57, additional protocol number one refers specifically to the protection of civilians, especially where there are military targets or possible military targets nearby. we know that because of the densely packed urban nature of the gaza strip this was going to be an urban war. we know it is an asymmetrical war. hamas operates although yes it is listed as a terrorist organization it also operates as a guerrilla force. it's an asymmetrical guerrilla war but we are not under pressure to report any particular detail of this.
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>> i appreciate you all talking about this and giving your opinions and we're going to continue to talk about this issue. next, vladimir putin continues to aid rebels in ukraine but he is sending another shipment of the rocket launchers across the border. more on our breaking news. two u.s. fighter jets escorting a flight after a passenger threatened the plane. we have a cell phone video of what happened and we'll show that to you when we come back.
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the fastest office plant. so why wouldn't i choose the fastest wifi? i would. switch to comcast business internet and get the fastest wifi included. comcast business. built for business. returning to our breaking news that we have just brought you about two u.s. fighter jets escorting a canada to panama flight. we have video from inside this jet. it is a sun wings airline plane. you can see the chaos and the yelling, the commotion. just wanted to play so you can hear the screaming that is going on there. >> head's down.
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head's down. >> hands up. >> a report that a man who was an agitated customer who was yelling to put their heads down and hands up. susan candiotti is "outfront." what are you learning? >> what a frightening flight. everything started off normally. when the plane took off at 7:00 in the morning from toronto heading to panama. about 45 minutes into the flight, this passenger allegedly makes a threat to endanger the aircraft in some way, makes that threat to a member of the crew. the crew then notifies the pilot, the pilot notifies the faa and authorities and turns around. norad scrambles a jet and escorts the jet back to toronto and safety. and the commotion aboard the
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plane when you hear the words heads down, hands up, heads down, hands up in the air. you see flight attendants there. as there is a second video we also -- i believe are trying to show to you where you see members of a s.w.a.t. team boarding a plane armed to the hilt with weapons and trying to take the situation under control. of course the suspect is taken into custody. and authorities identify him as -- a canadian citizen. 25 years old. he is being charged with a number of things, including mischief to property, interference with a flight crew and endangering that aircraft. he will appear in court tomorrow. >> thank you, susan. this is just adding to the frightening, you know, over the past week, series of crashes and frightening situations in the air. >> passengers are losing control like that. i think part of is that there is
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all this going on with asks and people are nervous and don't know what is going on. >> the planes are oversold the seats are small. quick turnarounds. >> this stuff does happen to the most unsuspecting people. the last guy who did this, he had no previous things. movies joke about having a bomb on the aircraft, that is something that is now a federal offense. he will be going to jail for a long time. >> he'll go to jail and a lot of people would support that and understand that. miles, we don't know whether this was an empty threat. we don't know the full situation in this case. but to david's point this has happened several times recently. you had a co-pilot of a plane saying that the plane was going down and rushing back. there was a security conference and the plane was on its way to las vegas and people were able
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to tackle him. >> this points out the unsung last line of defense that we all have right now from shanksville, pennsylvania to the shoe bomber, the underwear bomber, passengers are ready to take matters in their own hands. we shouldn't underestimate the value of that in the whole safety chain that is important. one thing i want to point out, though, i find it interesting given what was going on in the aircraft why didn't that captain make a decision to land sooner and quicker? cincinnati was nearby, dulles was nearby. instead he turned around and flew back to toronto. maybe he had too much fuel to land or was too heavy or wanted canadian jurisdiction but that is interesting to look at. >> you heard susan reporting about this video. this is when a s.w.a.t. team boarded the plane. heavily armed, as the plane landed. this is footage of the s.w.a.t.
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team. >> we are not plague tying the . >> people stop and there was a moment of fear. >> there was a fighter jet escort. does that show how seriously they took the threat or is the response from the government a response of what has happened? >> it has to go back to that country if at all feasible. that's why the fighter jets were dispatched to get it out of the country even if it is a risk to the passengers. >> even if there is more of a risk to passengers they are going to tell them to go to their own country. >> the risk is assessed. if they don't think is it a credible threat they can make that decision. if it is deemed a credible threat they would have taken action against it.
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to ask it to land in the country would have been a violence of national protocol. "outfront" next, accusations that vladimir putin is sending more rocket launchers to rebels in ukraine. the world says don't do it, we're going to punish it. and he does it more. a couple whose child died on flight 17 is trying to make sense of it. they are going to the crash site.
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hire an intern. and still have time to spare. go to comcastbusiness.com/ checkyourspeed if we can't offer faster speeds - or save you money - we'll give you $150. comcast business. built for business. . breaking news in the investigation into who shot down mh17. the latest intelligence from the united states says that russia could be sending rocket launchers across the ukraine border as early as today. yesterday we showed you these images that satellite intelligence sources believe were artillery pointed at ukraine. with burn marks in the grass indicating that the artillery has been fired. russia called the u.s. accusations a baseless smear
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campaign. the russia foreign ministry saying that washington shares responsibility for the bloodshed. joining me is wesley clark. good to see you. the united states says it's classified that they have pictures of artillery with burn marks. that would make it clear that putin is upping the ante. so he is sure that the rest of the world is full of bologna or he is losing control himself, that could be scarier. >> i don't think the situation is beyond putin's control. i think he is very much in control of it and the weapons are being fired across the border at the ukrainian forces because putin is surprised how effectively the ukrainians are fighting to regain control of their own territory. this is warfare. and he sent his leadership in to
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seize donetsk and plan sk and he is prepared toesque late as ukraine fights. we have to convince putin he's not going to win through continuing military escalation. the ukrainians have to fight and then the europeans have to join the united states in putting tough sanctions on him. >> but so far they said they're going to do but actions speak louder than words and there hasn't been much of that. and what is vladimir putin willing to do and whether the world will stand up to him. it's a big question and a lot of times the world says things about leaders that nobody likes and don't follow up with action. former secretary of state hillary clinton has spent time with putin and she said interesting things about putin. >> he is very tough.
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he is a very arrogant person to deal with which i think is a combination of this vision of russia and fundamental insecurity because when you are dealing with him he often acts as though he could care less. he acts bored and dismissive. so he has a lot of personas that he pulls out if he wants to stare intently at you with his very bright blue eyes because he wants something from you or he wants to convey a message to you, he can turn on the charm. >> how much of this, general, is about vladimir putin personally whether it's a personal insecurity or arrogance or personal anything? >> he has harbored a dream for many years that he would rebuild the soviet union. he called the disintegration of the soviet union the worst tragedy of the 20th century and trying to rebuild it.
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many have warned me when putin was prime minister and then president this was the game plan. so he's done it by a variety of means, mostly covert but it's now he is rebuilding russia's armed forces and he is more willing to use force. the west has to stop this. nations in nato from north to south, bulgaria, romania, the baltic states, are all very concerned. they know that if we don't stop this aggression in ukraine, they're on the front lines. we don't want that. >> general, thank you very much. and i should say while the world so far as not upped the ante on sanctions fully, today the russian government had to raise interest rates because of the impact of sanctions. and don't miss fareed za car yeah's interview with hillary clinton. the family of a passenger on
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story of an aerospace engineer on malaysia flight 17. when i spoke to her parents, ang la and george they believed she survived. they said she had the training, she could have. they are in ukraine trying to get answers. >> go, go, go. >> reporter: george and angela can almost feel their daughter, they are that close but they can't get there. these men are local ukrainian government officials urging these parents to not enter the pro-russian rebel held territory of donetsk. they flew to ukraine from australia with nothing other than shock and grief. >> there are battles. >> we have to go. there is no other way. >> reporter: their 25-year-old daughter was aboard flight 17
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flying to australia to see them. >> we go. >> reporter: with an outrageous disregard of the crash scene from the beginning and only black bags and unmarked coffins coming out, they have chosen to grieve with denial. >> we believe she's alive. every second counts. every second. >> and we're going to find her. it doesn't help to be angry but helps to go. >> i need to see the real fact, so that's why we came, besides that our daughter promised we will find her, mom and dad. so this is mom and dad. >> reporter: they poured their lives into their only child. she was an aerospace engineer that dreamed of being an astronaut. she believed space exploration could bring stability to earth. >> the experience of space flight is a life-changing event. >> reporter: how could you let a child like that go?
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>> there is an urgency because my, my belief that she is alive cannot be sustained if this takes 30 days. >> reporter: frustration mounting as the minutes tick by. >> no chance to come, we come back. >> reporter: and these government rebs get embassies on the phone to talk to them. >> you have not sorted this out, please do not contact me anymore. >> we are running out of time. >> so the risk we know, no worries. >> reporter: finally, they are told to go at their own risk. this private car promises to drive them through the battle lines of rebel-held territory, where a parents' love has no boundaries. they say they managed to make it past all the rebel check points and made it to the town of donetsk. this weekend, they plan on
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trying to make it to the crash site, erin. >> so hard to watch. we'll be following their journey on this program. still "outfront" big brother, the city of tomorrow. take them on the way you always have. live healthy and take one a day men's 50+. a complete multivitamin with 7 antioxidants to support cell health. age? who cares. ♪ (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities. add brand new belongings from nationwide insurance... ...and we'll replace destroyed or stolen items
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did you know on buildings, bank machines, traffic lites, they are watching you, security cameras, every. >> there are literally cameras all around us. ♪ ♪ >> you walk outside your door and there is an expectation of privacy. even in public, that's not reality. as you're out here taking pictures of tall buildings and electronic billboards, you probably don't realize the picture is actually being taken of you. there is some 6,000 securitity cameras throughout the city the new york city police department has at its dose postal but the question is, how much is too much. >> not in my house. >> if they came to my home. >> if i had cameras in my private home. >> to walk down the street knowing somebody is watching me makes me uneasy. >> instead of standing in front
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of times square, you were at big bend in london. they have a ring of steel, security cameras everywhere. if you walked from one end of the city to the other, chances are you would be captured bay security camera some 300 times. what are they doing with all that information? >> they are looking for crime. >> that's the scary part. >> a lot of it goes to waste. >> watching patterns. >> terrorism. >> i don't think they know what they are doing with the information. >> here is the question that a lot of people i think will be asking themselves as we go forward, how much of your personal privacy are you willing to sacrifice in order to be safe? >> that's the question. this weekend, we'll take you to the city of tomorrow saturday afternoon at 2:00 right here on cnn. before we go, please go to cnn.com/out front. tonight, we'll have more coverage of the air alger crash.
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they were running a hotel before they boarded the flight to see their children. you'll hear their story. thank you so much for joining us. us. ""ac 360"" begins now. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good evening, thanks for joining us. there is a breaking news in the war between israel and hamas. the role weather played. we begin with video that raises questions about post 9/11 airline security and raises a chill for anyone planning their next trip because it's terrifying. as you watch this, understand it is not a drill. >> hold still! hold still! hands up! >> let's go, hands up! >> heads down, hands up! show me all your hands, hands up, heads down! heads wn
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