tv CNN Tonight CNN August 5, 2014 7:00pm-7:31pm PDT
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because obviously snowden exposed a huge vulnerability. but problem is that there is still about three million people that have access to secret documents in the u.s. government. that's a lot of people who could easily get access to this stuff and leak it at any time, anderson. >> all right. evan, i appreciate the update that does it for us from jerusalem. we'll see you again in one hour at 11:00 p.m. eastern for another edition of "ac 360." "cnn tonight" starts now. good evening, everyone. this is "cnn tonight." i'm alisyn camerota in new york. all eyes on the middle east tonight, but not israel this time. the tragedy is in afghanistan where a deadly ambush claims a top american general. the first killed in overseas combat since vietnam. how will the white house respond? meanwhile, tens of thousands of troops massing on the border appears that a dangerous situation is about to spin out of control. we're talk about eastern europe. is vladimir putin on the verge of another land grab in ukraine?
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i'm jake tapper in jerusalem. it's just before sunrise in gaza. israel and hamas eyeball to eyeball as day two of this fragile ceasefire begins. the big question, what comes next, and what is the price of peace? should the united states consider recognizing hamas as something other than a terrorist organization? plus, the congressman who says democrats are waging a war on white people. ann coultler be here, and you can bet she has some thoughts on that one. let's begin with jake tapper. jake, tell us what is happening at this hour. >> alisyn, it's just before sunrise here in jerusalem. we are almost one-third of the way through the 72-hour ceasefire with so far no violations of it yet. israel has sent a delegation to cairo, where this deal was
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hashed out under the leadership of the egyptian government. all the palestinian factions, including hamas, which both israel and the u.s. consider to be a terrorist group, all have voiced support for sticking by this respite in the violence, and the hope is that the ceasefire can morph into something bigger and more sustained soon. one other note, alisyn, a new pole in the israeli nurp suggest that most voters consider this to be a tie, with israel only having achieved partial success in dealing a big blow to hamas, this despite the claims of triumph by prime minister netanyahu and his cabinet. the other big story of course comes out of afghanistan where an ambush believed to be an afghan soldier killed a u.s. army major general and wounded up to 15 coalition troops. and cnn's jim sciutto has more on that story. jim, what happened? >> reporter: well, jake, this took place at afghanistan's premier university in effect for senior military officers.
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their equivalent of west point. it's been a real focus for coalition force there's in terms of training the next generation of afghan leaders. general green was visiting there along with a german general senior afghan commanders when an afghan soldier, one who had been with his unit for some time, one who had been serious vetting process that has been put into place of afghan soldiers to prevent exactly this kind of attack, he opened fire on that senior delegation. he killed general green. he wounded 15 others, including eight american soldiers as well as a german general. an investigation is going to be under way now to see how that vetting process failed. but it also raises questions because as you know, of course, u.s. troops, coalition troops pulling out of afghanistan in a number of months. and they're going to be focused on the onus for security focused on afghan forces. here is what kirby says when i
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asked whether it undermines confidence in afghan forces going forward. >> we're months away from afghan, from the u.s. handing over security responsibility for afghanistan. to afghan forces like these. does this undermine your confidence in their ability to take over that role? >> the afghan national security forces continue to perform at a very strong level of competence and confidence. and warfare capability. they have had a good year securing not one, but two national elections. >> to be fair, the number of the so-called green on blue attacks, that's afghan soldiers attacking coalition troops has dropped significantly since 2012 when it peaked. there hadn't been one for a number of months. only two killed this year so far in these attacks. but as israel mirell kirby said, the steps they have taken including vetting afghan soldiers have mitigated the risk. they have not eliminated this risk. afghanistan still very much a
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battlefield. and we saw proof of that today, jake. >> thanks, jim. back to you, alisyn. >> all right, jake. we want to talk more about general green. joining us now is colonel duane meyers. he lives next door to major general green's family. colonel meyers, thanks for being with us. >> glad to be here. >> colonel, can you tell us how you got the news that general green had been killed? >> well, we heard on the tv this morning that a general had been killed. -- and saw a black car pull up outside their door and talk toe a woman who drove up next to them. and it turned out that it was he. >> i can only imagine that feeling of versus a black car pull up in front of your neighbor's house and knowing that they were about to deliver that news. even i, colonel, today felt a pang when i heard general greene's name, because i had
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occasion to interview him almost a year ago last summer. i interviewed him. he was in afghanistan and i talked to him about an element of the -- his mission there you see on the screen there my interview with him. and even i felt the loss. i was just a reporter thousands of miles away from him. so tell me what it was like to live next door to i'm and what his family is like and what general greene was like. >> well, you know what a nice man he was. the community is fairly tight. the community is in the cul-de-sac. it involves church and lived there about a year now. and gotten to know -- >> i think we're having trouble with colonel duane myers' cell phone there. what he is saying is they lived on a cul-de-sac together and it was a really tight-knit community and they all spent christmases together. it's a real loss for that family and for that neighborhood.
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well thank colonel myers for joining us. i want to go back to jake tapper now. i know you have spent a lot of time in afghanistan. you even have written a book about the fight there called "the outpost". what do you make of how this could have happened? >> well, there are so many complicated reasons why these green on blue incidents happen. part of it of course is infiltration by the taliban with their allies in pakistan, pulling strings. part of it is just how complicated war can be. it's a very obviously difficult situation. and people's opinions of the united states and the coalition forces change based on things that happen in their own lives. the army as jim mentioned, this is something they have taken very seriously. there was a peak of 61 deaths. it was 15% of all u.s. casualties in afghanistan in 2012. 15% of them were from green on blue events.
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now that's been reduced significantly. but it can't be eliminated entirely, alisyn. >> yeah, of course. i understand. and i mean, there must be some soul-searches in the army today of how to do things differently? >> yeah. i mean, locke, they do a lot of vetting and this is the west point of afghanistan. this is where officers were being trained. obviously they're going to redouble their efforts when it comes to vetting people. and they may have more, take more seriously. there was something they did in 2012. they started a process called guardian angels when u.s. soldiers were afghan soldiers, there would be a u.s. soldier whose job it was to just watch the afghan soldiers. they may bring that back in full force i would think. but it's very, very complicated. now let's turn subjects to the price of peace in this part of the world, the middle east.
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joining me now we have a team of heavy hitters. aaron david miller who advised six secretaries of state and helped formulate american policy in the middle east. his latest book is "the end of greatness." we also have daniel kurtzer, former ambassador to israel and egypt. and former general wesley clark, retired general wesley clark. gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us tonight. ambassador kurtz, i want to start with you. israel has had some tough things to say to u.s. official, most notably programs when prime minister netanyahu reportedly told the u.s. ambassador to israel that he should, quote, never, ever second guess him again when it came to dealing with hamas. have you heard that kind of talk when you were ambassador here or when you were ambassador in egypt? >> well, we've experienced tough talk in the past. i dealt with ariel sharon as
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prime minister. he was quite tough on occasion. so it's not unusual when the united states and israel get into these spats. what is unusual is the fact that we've had these recurring fights for the entire period of the obama and netanyahu administrations. and the tenor of the discussion has really gotten nasty. so it's the length of time that these two sides are fighting with each other that makes this unusual. >> do you think that it undermines the influence that the united states has when there are such tensions between netanyahu and president obama? >> oh, it surely does. you know, countries in the region have always looked upon the united states-israel relationship as a solid bedrock. and when they see this kind of consistent fighting and the words coming out of jerusalem directed at american officials, it certainly undermines american credibility, and it hurts our
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ability to help israel. and therefore it's not quite understandable why the israelis are venting their frustrations in public. they have problems, let's talk about it. but i don't understand the public diplomacy going on here. >> aaron david miller, let me bring you in. we still do hear a lot of public talk from officials on both sides about the strength of israel's ties with the u.s. just last week, congress passed more hundreds of millions to fund the iron dome. here you've advised so many secretaries of state on this conflict. do you think we're going to have to wait a couple of years almost for new administrations in the u.s. and here in israel in order to make a fresh start and move forward with the alliance stronger? >> you know, unlike lehman brothers, i think the u.s.-israeli relationship really is too big to fail. but i do agree with dan that there is a lot of dysfunction at the top. there is a lot of mistrust. there is a lot of suspicion.
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in life, where you stand has a lot to do with where you sit. and benjamin netanyahu and barack obama are sitting in two very different places with two differing set of conflicting pressures. i think when obama looks at netanyahu, he sees a guy who doesn't respect american interests, who is primarily concerned about his own political survival. and when netanyahu looks at obama, he sees a guy who is insensitive if his point of view to israeli security needs and almost bloodless. so you really do need, i think. as danos, we've seen tough times before. george h.w. bush and they found a way to cooperate with each other. and until netanyahu and obama find a common enterprise, kwleen
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it wi , i think dan is right. it's going to be very difficult for the less than thousand days that remains in the obama presidency to work out a really functional relationship between these two. >> general clark, the united states, as i mentioned, just okayed another $225 million for the iron dome missile defense system here and agreed to restock israel's weapons during the operation. how critical to the united states is the military relationship? obviously it's vital to israel. >> we look at israel as a very, very important and vital ally in the region. it's in america's vital interest that israel be safe and secure. so we're going to support them. they're an outpost of democracy in the region. they show what can be done with modern technology. they're entrepreneurial. they're going to be energy independent when they develop their offshore gas and oil. they've got lots of future and lots of potential. and if we can get a middle east peace process and get nations
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working together, that will be the keystone for economic progress in the region. and so israel's security and safety is vital to the united states. >> it's been over a decade of controversial wars in the middle east. do you think, general clark, that the reality is that u.s. influence in the world is waning? >> well, i think what has happened is other powers have gotten stronger relative to the united states economically. and they're asserting themselves. but i think the united states is still the great power. it's ours to win or lose in the middle east. we do have to be careful the instruments of power we choose. military power, once it's used, if it's used, there is no exit strategy, if it's not accompanied by the right diplomacy, if you don't take the leverage from the military power to achieve your overriding diplomatic and political aims, then the military power as an instrument, it is frittered away. our problem in the middle east, i was one of those who didn't
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agree with going into iraq. i didn't think it was necessary. when we did go in, we had a brief window of enormous diplomatic leverage. we didn't use it with iran. we didn't use it effectively with the other nations in the region. and it soon became clearer that we weren't really prepared for the occupation of iraq, which ensued. and so at that point and from then on, it's been very difficult for us to manage the military power that we've had there in a way that is most constructive and most effective for the outcomes we seek. >> all right. i have to leave it there, ambassador kurtzer, wesley clark and aaron david miller, thank you so much. we appreciate your time. and general clark, you'll be back a little later this the show. when we come back, a former president's surprising call for action on hamas. alan dershowitz weighses in on that. is vladimir putin to be make a move in eastern europe? and practically speaking, there anything the white house can do to stop him? we'll ask our team of experts
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former president jimmy carter has added his voice to how to solve the middle east crisis. he says it's time for the u.s. to recognize hamas as a legitimate political group rather than its current designation as a terror group. alan dershowitz has some strong thoughts on that. his latest back to is "taking the stand: my life in the law."
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alan, great to see you. >> thank you. >> former president carter's position is it the best way to end the fighting in israel is to sort of ledge jet mize hamas. he says the united states and the eu should recognize that hamas is not just a military, but also a political force. hamas cannot be wished away, nor will it cooperate in its own demise. only by recognizing its legitimacy as a political actor, one that represents a substantial portion of the palestinian people can the west begin to provide the right incentives for hamas to begin to lay down its weapons. >> well we already recognize hamas. we recognize it as a foreign terrorist organization. and the law provides that providing any material support to a foreign terrorist organization is illegal and against the law. >> he wants it recognized a political -- >> i understand that it is both political and military. what is its politics? let me read from its charter. hamas has been looking forward to implementing allah's promise,
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fight the jews until the jews hide behind rocks and trees which will trio muslim, there is a jew hiding behind me, come out and kill him. >> yes. that's a sticking point. that charter is a problem. >> it's not only the charter, but its leader today talked about the blood lie. saying jews use the blood of christians to make matzoh. and they devise this horrible strategy of using children and babies as human shields in order to fire at israeli civilians, force them to the tragic choice of either not firing back or trying their best to avoid civilians, but knowing some civilians will be killed. and then showing the babies on television to turn the world's attention against israel. >> and yet the constant bombing of hamas targets in gaza doesn't steam have eradicated them. they haven't gone anywhere. since 2006 when they were voted into office, they haven't necessarily been weakened.
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>> the mafia hasn't disappeared either. well negotiate with the mafia. we don't recognize terrorist organizations and give them legitimacy. the media is at fault here too. they sometimes present israel, a democratic nation and hamas as morally equivalent. israel plays by the rules. israel tries its best to avoid civilian casualties. the difference is that hamas uses its civilians to protect its fighters where as israel uses its fighters to protect civilians. >> as a member of the media, don't we have to show 1700 people, 17 palestinians killed, 75% of them civilians? don't we need to report on that? >> what we need to show is the empty areas in gaza. it has many empty areas. hamas could easily pick those areas from which to fire their rockets. build their tunnels. if they did that, there would be no civilian casualties. israel would attack the military. the reason so many israeli soldiers have been killed and so
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many palestinians civilians have been killed is that's the goal of hamas, to get israel to kill as many palestinians as possible so that the media will cover it. >> so in your mind, until they change that charter that you just read from, there can be no legitimizing hamas. >> it's more than the charter. until they change their strategy. until they stop engaging in the double war crime of targeting israeli civilians from behind palestinian civilians, they have to be treated as a terrorist organization. their tunnels have to be stopped. their rockets have to be stopped. negotiation, yes. recognition? they have to earn it. >> okay. we're going to debate this. if you will stick around, alan dershowitz, when we come back, we'll bring in man who disagrees with professor dershowitz when it comes to israel and hamas. reza aslan says hamas may be winning the public relations war, and maybe it is time to recognize them. he is going to join us next. ups is a global company, but most of our employees
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the u.s. officially classifies hamas as a terrorist organization, as do israel, the eu, and egypt, among others. but is the world's view of hamas changing? alan dershowitz is back with us, and we're joined by reza aslan, a professor at uc riverside and the author of "zealot." let's go first to my colleague jake tapper in jerusalem. jake? >> thanks, alisyn. reza, israeli officials have repeatedly told me that the own us? on hamas to show that it can hold to a ceasefire and stop the attacks fafnltd the organization wants to be taken seriously on the world stage, i think the question is don't they need to act accordingly? >> yes, jake. i'm sorry, but if i may, if i could just respond to professor dershowitz and what he has on numerous occasions referred to hamas's dead baby strategy, or what benjamin netanyahu refers to as the problem of telegenetically dead palestinians, the problem with this rhetoric isn't so much that
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it's been repeatedly debunked by amnesty international, by human rights watch, by the united nations, by a slew of journalists on the ground in gaza, the problem with this rhetoric is that it seeks to deliberately dehumanize palestinians by stripping them of their most basic human impulse, the protection of their children, all in the name of some kind of ideological loyalty to the state of israel. and it has to stop if we're going move forward. it's time to stop blaming the victim. the only person responsible for the death of a civilian in a war is the person who pulled the trigger. >> hold on, reza, let alan get in there. >> let me prove that that's not true. if there is a bank robbery and the bank robber takes a hostage and the bank robber starts shooting from behind the hostage and aiming at civilians and the policeman then tries to shoot the bank robber and kills the hostage, who is guilty of murder? under the law of every single society, it's the bank robber who is holding the hostage, not the person who shot the bullet that killed the hostage.
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now, there is proof today, and you can see it. and i hope cnn runs it. indian television station has a video of hamas fighters planting their rockets right next to a hotel, running away, using human shields. i don't care what amnesty international says, it is a fact that hamas uses human shields. >> we're using it right now. go ahead. >> unfortunately, it's also a fact that even if khaled meshaal were standing on top of a hospital with a sign that says israel come and get me, it would still be a violation of international law for israel to blow up that hospital that. >> is not true. that's false. that's absolutely not true. [ overlapping dialog ] >> the geneva accord -- >> let me jump in for one second. alan and reza, let me jump in for saefnlgtd i want to show the viewers the video that alan was talking about, which we have shown. and i do want to get, reza, your views of
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