[ laughter ] >> don't do that! this is cnn breaking news. >> good evening, everyone. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. >> and i'm allin camerota. breaking news tonight. 130 additional u.s. military personnel being sent to iraq to help assess the humanitarian crisis and develop more options for all of the displaced people. is the u.s. getting further into iraq than we'd bargained for? plus a passing of another hollywood legend. lauren bacall dead at the age of 89. we're going to have more on that. also the latest on the

tragic suicide of robin williams and the deadly depression that overwhelmed him. could anything have been done to save the life of one of america's a best loved funny men? we'll talk to someone who was a close friend for years. that's lance armstrong. and we'll talk to classic tv star jeff bridges. he has had his own troubles with addiction and depression, but he faced a big online backlash when he called robin williams' suicide selfish. tonight he'll explain what he meant. also tonight outrage over the death of an unarmed 18-year-old named michael brown shot by a police officer. you heard his grieving parents right here last nig never think a funeral. he was waiting on his first day of school. >> today the president called his death heartbreaking. but what will it take to keep this from happening again and again? should police wear cameras? >> we have a lot to get to tonight. we begin with news of another hollywood passing, lauren bacall, the sophisticated beauty who shot to fame in 1944 with her first film "to have and have not" died of a stroke in new york today. she famously starred with humphrey bogart who became his husband.

nischelle turner has more. >> you know how to whistle, don't you, steve? you just put your lips together and blow. >> reporter: with those words in the film "to have and have not", audience imagination soared and a screen icon was born. the confident smoldering experience, the downturned face and upturned eyes earned bacall the nickname "the look." ironically, the 19-year-old struck the pose because she felt insecure. >> i mean, that's what started the look was nerves, just trying to keep my head steady. >> reporter: bacall was more than a movie legend. she was from hollywood's golden era and the wife of actor humphry bogart. ♪ the big sleep was among a handful of films they made together. but their love affair was one of tinseltown's greatest romances. bogart died of cancer in 1957, leaving bacall a widow at 32 with two small children. for a time she was engaged to family friend and singer frank

sinatra. when the romance fizzled, sin nat interest headed to las vegas. soon bacall fell in love again and married actor jason robards with whom she had a son. she blamed his drinking for their divorce. >> i don't know if he enjoyed it, but he was hooked on it. and it really almost destroyed him. fortunately it did not. >> reporter: bacall was born betty joan perskie. her parents were immigrants who divorced when she was just 6. as a lanky teen, she modelled to earn extra money, taking her mother's maiden name bacall, adding a second l to make it easier to pronounce. film director howard houck saw her on a magazine cover. a screen test later and he changed her name. >> he thought lauren bacall was better sounding than betty bacall. he had a vision of his own. he was a svengali. he wanted to mold me. he wanted to control me. >> reporter: big screen or small, even her fellow actors

viewed her as a legend. >> john huston and charlie chaplin. she just knows or has been around everyone that has formed what we know of this business. >> reporter: bacall's fimmco stars read like the who's who of hollywood, but it was on broadway where she achieved her most critical acclaim. >> oh, i loved it. that was my original dream, anyway, to be on stage. >> reporter: she spent nearly 20 years on the stage, starring in cactus flower, applause, and woman of the year, earning two tony awards. in her later years, her film career saw a renaissance. she starred opposite barbra streisand in "the mirror has two faces," earning her only oscar nomination. and she was still acting in her 80s in such films as "dogville" and "berth" with nicole kidman. a diva, a film star, a broadway jewel in a classic time of an era gone by.

>> cnn commentator and senior west coast editor of "vanity fair." in the ranks of legendary actresses, where would you put lauren bacall? >> oh, i would put her right at the top. she defined what it means when people talk about the golden era of hollywood. she also created part of the huge creation of film noir with her husband. obviously bogart. and it's just that voice, listening to her voice. no one had ever heard a woman sound like that on film. >> and of course she was almost as famous or i should say just as famous for her romance with humphry bogart as she was for her acting. they had really a classic hollywood romance. >> absolutely. and i think about those famous shots, the pictures of them at home with their kids. i mean, they really were, they defined the dream hollywood golden couple. and also starring in such

successful films together i think only solidified that. and her -- >> go ahead, krista. >> are you going to ask me how she'll be remembered? >> yeah. >> i think lauren bacall, she is a legend. she was a diva. she had -- she knew everybody. she lived through every era. it doesn't surprise me that she found her biggest success on broadway later in her career. but i think she is one of the top beauties of hollywood as well. i mean, she is gorgeous. and not surprising she started as a model. she really knew how to work the camera. and there was just so sultry that even when she wasn't talking, you just wanted to know what she was thinking. >> she was sultry and stylish, and she had that great smoky voice, i love the voice. that's one of the favorite things. she is beautiful and the voice was amazing, everything. >> true. krista, thank you so much. we're going to talk about another legend now. there are new details on robin

williams' tragic death. ted rowlands in san rafael, california with more on that. there was news today about the cause of the death. what did we learn? >> well, don, we learned that robin williams did take his own life. the preliminary autopsy report has concluded that he died of asphyxiation, self-inflicted using a belt in a closet in his home. and we also learned that he had some cut marks on his left wrist and a pocket knife which was closed was found next to his body with some substance that they believe is blood that will be tested. we also found out that indeed he was getting treatment for severe depression in the days and weeks leading up to his death. that will factor into the final report which is due out after the toxicology, which should be between two and five weeks from now. what we don't know is if he left a note of any kind. officials here say they're going to reserve that information until the final report is out.

we don't know that, but we also do know, don, that these details made a very painful event even worse for people who loved robin williams. just hearing the pain that this man must have been in. and it just opposing it to the joy that he brought so many people has really been difficult for people not only here in the san francisco bay area, which he called home for so many years, but around the country and the world. >> and ted, you know, they went into great detail about the way that he died, and then having to -- it seems like the representative there had to clarify himself when it came to a note. are we absolutely sure there wasn't a note, or they're just not saying now? >> not saying now. in fact, the answer to the question was there a note left, his initial reaction -- initial answer was we're not talking about the note. and then he stopped or about any note. we're not mentioning a note if there was or not. we don't know if there was a note, but clearly there is a good possibility if there was

something left, just judging from his answer. but we don't know for sure. >> all right. ted rowlands, appreciate your reporting. thank you very much. >> alisyn? all right. let's bring in man who was friends with robin williams for many years. they bonded over their love of cycling. lance armstrong joins us now on the phone. lance, thanks for being here. >> absolutely. >> how did you and robin become friends? >> well, i don't really remember an act moment. i had heard over the years that he was a fan of cycling. so when we first started racing the tour and went in the tour, he would send messages or send notes. then all of the sudden he started coming to the races and actually coming to the tour to be supportive. and it just evolved over the years. >> so we understand that you used to ride bikes together. and last year on the daily show, robin williams talked about that. let's listen. >> i used to ride with lance in the old days. >> oh really? >> i used to ride behind the

unibowler. >> did you really? you rode with lance armstrong? >> i rode with one once or twice. he is so good, he would be on the phone, hands free. i was like you bastard! >> was he cracking jokes while you would ride together? >> he was always cracking jokes. and he was, as you guys are probably well aware, and i've heard many, many stories. he was a special man. and obviously there was a lot going on there. but, you know, the guy was -- if he was over at our house for dinner with the kids, i mean he was -- i guess i can say this, because he was sitting there talking about the uniballer, but the last great dinner i remember was a few years ago and all my kids were there. and he had so many fart jokes, and he was doing these noises, and my kids were just rolling. he was so loved. so loved by not just myself, but everybody. we're going to miss him. >> i can only imagine how much

fun a child would have at a dinner party with robin williams. obviously, we've learned a lot in the past 24 hours about his life challenges, his challenges with addiction and depression. you of course have had your own public challenges. do you two ever talk than? >> well, his challenges -- yeah. a little. most people were well aware of. and i sort of lived with him through some of the previous challenges when he was sober and then sort of fell off. and i spent some time back in therapy for that. and i visited him there outside of portland. but my own drama, we never -- never had the opportunity to break it down with him and talk about that. look, life is messy and we all sort of find our way. the last -- this last year or so, robin was in a place that i

don't think many people knew. and it's just terrible. >> one of the things that keeps coming up about his life is that he had this tremendous philanthropic nature, and he helped with your foundation, live strong, among others. where do you think that came from? >> i have no idea, but the guy, there is two things that stick out for me is first of all, any time i ever asked him to do anything for my organization, come to an event, donate something, donate a dinner, donate a bike, come do some comedy or something, he always, and i mean always said yes. the second thing, which i sort of got involved alongside with him was these uso trips overseas. so every -- for a couple years, we did the uso trip over

christmas to iraq, afghanistan, kurdistan, spain, italy, i mean we just traveled the world over the holidays. and to see him in front of those troops, i mean, he was -- he was their hero. and so was he never -- and perhaps it was a weakness of his, he could never say no. if somebody asked for something if they needed something, they had to be somewhere, he would stretch himself so thin because he couldn't say no. he cared about people. he cared about causes. he wanted to make people happy, whether they're laughing or whether they were appreciative or whatever it was. the guy was a giver. that's about as best i can sum it up. >> we're looking at great video of him on one of his six us tours in front of just a huge crowd. and of course there was a role that made him famous in terms of the military, and that was "good morning vietnam." let's just watch a little clip of that. >> where are you going to? >> not sure. >> you got to be careful, jack. that's some heavy stuff up there. that's like newark after dark. some heavy [ bleep ] going down, baby. like george wallace campaigning in harlem. >> have you seen my face?

>> you guys be careful. what's your name? >> louis striker. >> thank you, brother striker. >> john dunham. >> feels like a mouseketeer show, annette. you guys take care of yourself. i won't forget you. >> i imagine him being like that on the uso tours. was he? >> he was. and, you know what? when you're on the inside and we're traveling so much and we were just -- the travel to get to those extreme places. you see when somebody really wants to turn it on when they're in front of a crowd. and when they retreat or they're in their own space, then you see if they're into it or not. the guy was so into it. i mean, those soldiers and those troops and the men and women that serve our country that. >> should know he was obsessed with them. he loved them. he loved being there. and to be a part of it and just cruise along and watch his passion and see him interact with people, and even when we had downtime, so he is just cracking the rest of us up, whether it be me orchid rock or

louis black or whoever, it's some of the best memories of my life. >> lance armstrong, thank you so much for sharing your personal perspective and your personal stories with us tonight. we really appreciate that. >> we're going to miss him. >> and our men and women in uniform will miss him. he never forgot about them, whatever he was dealing with. he truly put them above everyone else. >> that's some great examples of him with them. when we come back, he has struggled with addiction and depression. so a lot of people were shocked when the people called the suicide of robin williams selfish. well, tonight he is here to explain. but first, here is robin williams on "inside the actor's studio" talking about heaven. >> if heaven exists, what would you like to hear god say when you arrived at the pearly gates? >> there is seating at the front. hello? the concert begins at 5:00. it will be mozart, elvis, and one of your choosing. or just a nice to know there is laughter.

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you know, it's hard to believe that someone like robin williams who brought joy to so many, suffered from such demons in his private life. but tragically, it's not so uncommon in hollywood, really everywhere else. joining us now exclusively is actor todd bridges. he is a former addict who has suffered from depression himself. he has received a lot of

criticism for his comments on robin williams' suicide being quote/unquote selfish. when you say former addict, i don't know if you're former, you're always dealing with it, right? >> you're always still dealing with it on daily basis, and depression on top of that. >> listen, you received some backlash, telling tmz that it was a, quote, selfish act. and you weren't alone. others said it was cowardly. you have since apologized. explain your initial reaction and why you said it and what happened afterward? >> well, my initial reaction when i first heard it was really about my friend, my best friend who committed suicide about seven months ago, and the exact same way. and when i tweeted, i wasn't really thinking about robin williams, i was thinking about my best friend. soy was kind of angry about it, because he left us behind. he left me behind. he left all of his friends, his wife, his two kids. and that's why i was -- what i

meant by saying it was a selfish act, i really meant to say he just wasn't thinking of us. and i know we all have demons and we all have things that we chase and things that we have to deal with. but, you know, we're the ones that are really suffering behind all this now. i'm driving in my car sometimes, and i just start crying. what i want to say is i'm sorry to everybody who, you know, took what i said and ran with it to a different direction, you know, tmz took their own direction. and i just want to apologize to robin's family if they got ahold of it and they heard it the wrong way, because robin was a friend of mine also. i knew robin williams when i was on fish and they were doing "mork & mindy." he was always very, very nice to me when i was a child. >> you were on the set of "mork & mindy" before that series even launched. >> yeah. >> tell us what you remember about robin then. >> robin was a comedian who was always brilliant. he always had impeccable timing, and he was always, always very nice. he was one of the people -- you

know, there is only one person in hollywood who wasn't very nice to kids, and robin was not one of them. he was nice to everyone. and like lamb said, he always gave his 100% to everybody. and he would always stop and always talk to me and say todd, how are you doing? how is the show going? those kinds of things. and i really feel bad that it got misconstrued. i want to apologize to everybody and to the world. i'm still suffering through what my friend did. >> also on top of that, i want to talk to you more about robin, but also dana plato, who was your co-star. >> dana plato. >> who died. >> she od'd. she died. gary coleman, he passed away. and the one that hit me hard too also was conrad bayne. he was like a father to me. i've had to deal with a lot of death lately, a lot of tragedies. >> you said it's always there. i'm just going to be honest with you. how you doing? are you clean and sober now? >> yeah, i'm clean and sober,

definitely. but how am i feeling? you know, i've heard so many mean things about me and mean-spirited things about me. i'm feeling a little angry, a lot of hurt. you know, because i think my timing was off. i think that, you know, i just said things, you know, i said it and i should not have said it maybe at that time. so, you know, people took it and just ran with it. and they just shredded me apart. >> okay, so let me tell you this. >> anybody that is in this -- that has addiction, that is dealing with you know, your own recovery, you know, these kind of things can be detrimental. thank god i'm ahead of that and i'm able to control that, and i'm able to deal with what i have to deal with. >> and i'm glad you're saying that, because as i'm sure someone who has gotten treatment, you should realize you shouldn't internalize those things, but let's -- >> no. i did at first. the first couple of hours i internalized it. be then the program kicked in and reminded me that people are

going to have opinions. and opinions are like you know what? so, they can say what they want to say about me. but i know who i am. i know i'm a great guy. i help a lot of people. i've kept a lot of people sober. i've kept a lot of people from themselves doing things to themselves. and i do a lot of work for people, a lot of work for children. i do a lot of work. i do a lot of good. and for that one mistake that i made for the bad timing, young i should be held completely all the way responsible. here is another thing i'd like to say. you know, when i was going through my troubles, everyone made jokes about me. every single comedian made a joke about me when i was having my problems. so, you know, i wasn't making a joke. i was serious. i was upset because my friend did this. and it just hurt me. >> but, you know, robin also joked about it himself. >> yes, he did. robin did joke about it. >> in 2009 on david letterman. >> show it. show it, show it. >> congratulations on a

tremendous recovery. and i'm glad to see you. >> good to be back. >> good to have you here. how do you feel? >> i feel good, dave! >> mentally, physically, everything. >> mentally, that's a big question. >> able to laugh at their own demons. so you think that they are strong enough to carry on. one would assume that. >> sometimes when we -- you are able to carry it. but a lot of times we hide it very well. we're very good hiders. but my proof is in my 26 years of sobriety, you know. and my proof is in my work, my body of work that i've done to help people. you know, and a lot of times we will hide it. we'll fool you, because we're very good at that. we're very good con artists. and we keep it from people. as long as we can, until it gets so dangerous for us that it just comes out, and then everyone is exposed to it and cease it. and people don't realize that drug addiction and depression

are basically run hand in hand, you know what i mean? when you're depressed, you take drugs to try to get over the depression. then you get addicted and now you're addicted to the drugs and you're depressed, but you don't deal with the depression because you're on the drugs. >> todd, that was one reason why i asked if you are clean and sober. i know, as you said, you can find a way to fool people. but todd, thank you very much. i really appreciate it. you take care of yourself. and continue to tell people the truth about it so that the stigma is removed. we appreciate you. >> you know, i'm trying to definitely keep doing that. and i just hope that, you know, the people can do what they normally do. they're going to continue to say the mean things they want. that's okay. i love myself. my family loves me. and they all know who i am. and, you know, robin williams, i love you to death, man. and may god rest your soul. and one day i'll probably see you. and i love you. take care of your family. >> we appreciate your candor, todd. thank you. >> thank you.

>> it's nice when someone whos has struggled comes forward and talks about their personal experience. >> we keep talking about the stigma. that needs to go away because we need to deal with these issues. >> absolutely. we're going to talk about that coming up. robin williams' suicide is the latest reminder that depression can be deadly. who is most at risk, and what can you do if you're suffering, or you know someone who is suffering? we'll get you some answers. it hugs you. [jeffery] i don't have to think about how to get comfortable anymore. [evie] this zips off so i can wash it-yes, please. [robert]dude,tempur-pedic is killing it. [kevin] no more tossin' and turnin', trying to find a comfortable spot in bed. [christi] it's really cool to the touch. [chelsea] my tempur-pedic... cuddles better than my husband does. but,that's just between you and me. [announcer] visit your local retailer and feel the tempur-pedic difference for yourself.

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robin williams's tragic death is bringing attention to depression, an illness that all too often can be deadly. here is a moment from husband 2009 film "world's greatest dad" that today seems particularly relevant. >> you're that depressed, reach out to someone. and remember, suicide is a permanent solution to temporary problems. >> joining us now to discuss this is dr. charles sophie. he is a medical director of the l.a. department of children and family service, and tanya brown, author of "finding peace amid the chaos: my escape from

depression and suicide." it's great to have you both here for this important conversation tonight. tanya, let me start with you. you've been open about your depression, and even your thoughts of suicide. can you share with us what that dark place feels like? >> you know, unless you've been there, you really have no clue. and that's why i really want to encourage people not to judge robin, even for his family at this point, because, you know, when you are in that dark space, people who commit suicide or try to commit suicide don't want to die, they want to end the pain, and they are desperate. it's a desperate cry out from a person who is in extreme pain. >> of course. >> and it's unresolved pain. >> that's such a great point. when people outside, and we've heard this, and we heard todd bridges just say it, the person who committed suicide is selfish, it's mean that they don't realize how crushing the depression is, and they think that they're going to be sparing their family of that.

but dr. sophie, i want to bring up something that i learned in the past 24 hours that i didn't know before. and that is that middle aged men from 45 to 64 years old, as robin williams was at 63, are at the greatest risk for suicide. why is that? >> yes. they're at a four-time greater risk of committing suicide. and that's because a lot of times many men do not deal with their feelings like you would think a woman would. they're more closed off. they're more isolated. they tend to be more aggressive, and they tend to be more impulsive. and they get to be compulsive as well. so they'll act on things in a quiet silence much quicker than a woman would. >> tanya, how did you come out of your dark days? what was it that lifted that veil for you? >> i got thrown into a psych ward. that's how how -- that was where my dark space got me. it was a trigger. my wedding was canceled four days before. and for one month i went into

full-on destruction mode. i was popping pills, drinking my red wine. over a comment. we had a family friend over on october 9. he said something i didn't like. i snapped and lashed out at every member of my family, ruined my relationship with denise for an entire year because i called her horrific names. but you know what? i went willfully. i basically said get me out of here before i hurt myself or someone around me. that's how out of my mind i was. but i was also like in my mind to be that aware. >> to know that you yourself were hitting rock bottom and that you reached out and that you needed help. and dr. sophy, i want to bring you in. if people out there are suffering tonight, and chances are there are many people who are listening to us are, because depression is so prevalent, what should they do tonight? >> if you are suffer organize you know someone, or a loved one is suffering, there are really a lot of great resource. reach out.

the suicide prevention lifeline is an 800 number that you can call. you can talk to somebody. they'll give you a place to call close to your home. they'll give you resources. but reach out for help there is a ton of resources. but you've got to be able to reach. don't wait until it's so dark that you're paralyzed. >> tanya, how do you keep yourself from going back to that dark place? >> you know, i'm all about prevention. and sadly, our children today are not taught the coping skills or life skills that are needed to manage their life through the daily stress that we're experiencing today. so when i was in the psych ward, i learned self care, and i know for a lot of people it sounds hokeypokey or pop psychology, but there is truth in science backing up how important meditation, slowing down your mind. arianna huffington just wrote a book called "thrive" and she talks about a digital detox. which is so important. we're so connected to technology than we are to ourselves and other people around it.

meditation, yoga, pilates. endorphins are released and it's free. it's just managing yourself on a daily basis so then you are able to navigate your way through. it's all about prevention. >> that's a great, great point. and dr. sophy, it is important to tell people tonight that suicidal feelings will pass? >> absolutely. if you catch them earlier, the earlier you get it, the better and quicker it goes away. you have to self-soothe. and yes, they will pass, as long as you get and reach out for the right kind of help. >> thank you both so much for sharing your wisdom and your personal experience. dr. sophy, tanya brown. i will tweet out a website for help for anybody who is listening. >> fabulous. thank you. >> i think many people who are

the st. louis medical examiner confirms now that 18-year-old michael brown died of multiple gunshot wounds, but did not specify how many shots. brown was killed saturday by a police officer in ferguson, missouri. and today president barack obama called brown's death heartbreaking. cnn's jason carroll live for us in ferguson, missouri tonight. the ferguson police department is refusing to name the officer involved in saturday's shooting for fear of violence against him, jason? >> yeah, exactly, don. it's a problem for the family, because as you know, michael brown's family has repeatedly said they believe this officer's name should be made public. the chief of police actually told me that would happen today. the department changed their minds after getting word that perhaps releasing his name might jeopardize his safety. his name eventually be released,

but it will not be released today until they're confident when they do that the officer will be safe. >> jason, you tell us about this? there is a sad new video out today from the day of the shooting, and what does this video -- there it is. >> taken by an eyewitness, taken by an eyewitness there in the neighborhood. and, you know, it's heart-wrenching. you can see brown's father on the video there. at one point he is held back from approaching his son. what really angered a lot of people there in the neighborhood is that his body remained there for one eyewitness said for more than an hour. some say up to two hours while police conducted their investigation. now police have to do their job, no doubt about that. but for some people saw it as a lack of sensitivity. and once again, when you have this fractured relationship between the community and the police, they already believe that the police are insensitive to their feelings and their needs.

and when you see something like this happen, again, it's that tipping point that we had talked about before. >> it's awful to see. thank you very much, jason carroll in ferguson, missouri for us. joining us now is adolphus pruitt, the vice president of the missouri state conference of the naacp. and he says a second eyewitness to the shooting of michael brown has come forward. mr. pruitt, thank you so much for joining us tonight. you are representing a new eyewitness who has come forward in this case. tell me what the person claims to have seen the night of the -- or the day of the shooting. >> yeah, the -- in essence, the person said that they've seen the incident from the start of an encounter with the police officer, and both michael brown and the other individual with him, and that at no time did they see a struggle between michael brown and officer take

place within the police car as has been reported. and in addition, they said they never saw at any point in time where michael brown reached into the police car in any form or fashion to go after the police officer. >> almost to a person, that's what the eyewitnesss have said all along. but has this eyewitness spoken to police? and why is this person coming forward now? >> actually, the eyewitness is a relative of a law enforcement officer. and contacted that relative and said that they were a little upset about how the reporting was come -- was coming out because of

i would say no, it not. but again, the witness has a relative that is a law enforcement officer that has spoken with that relative. and the relative put the witness with us, also delivered that witness to federal authorities for questioning. and so i'm confident that the relative was in law enforcement is very much believes that witness accounts. and i think at the end of the day, the witness is going to

prove to be extremely credible as relates to what they saw. >> adolphus pruitt we will have you back of the st. louis chant over the naacp, the vice president there. we appreciate you coming forward. this case, man, it just continues to unfold. >> eyewitness accounts are going to be critical, because otherwise it's just what the police officer said. so we need to hear what people who watched it said. >> right. no dashboard camera, no surveillance video as of yet. but they have been asking for it. up next, police officers wear a badge and carry a gun. here is a question. but should they also wear a camera? we'll explain the pros and the cons, coming up. do you have something for pain? i have bayer aspirin. i'm not having a heart attack, it's my back. i mean bayer back & body. it works great for pain. bayer back & body provides effective relief for your tough pain. better? yeah...thanks for the tip! what does it mean to have an unlimited mileage warranty on a certified pre-owned mercedes-benz?

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mark, i want to get something out of the way first. a lot of people wonder about having you on a talk about this. let's just get this out in the open. you successfully defended george zimmerman. >> yes. >> and some people take issue

with you commenting on this case. how does your knowledge of that case affect your perception of this shooting? >> well, first of all, done for. george zimmerman is one of nearly 30,000 people i've represented. but i was in a unique position to look at what will happen to a case if it's not handled properly and openly and transparently by law enforcement. so in the first sense, the zimmerman case taught law enforcement and quite honestly taught news the media that these cases that have racial overtones to them have to be done openly, quickly, in the public eye, and properly by good law enforcement agency like the federal government to do it. those lessons were learned by all of us in zimmerman. >> bernie, i want to move on to you, because a lot of people are saying one way to cut down on cases like this where it's the police officer's word against the either victim's family or maybe one eyewitness is for cops to wear cameras. would that help? >> well, look, i've supported

cameras in the cars. in fact, i put them in the highway cars initially in the nypd. and they turned out to be very successful. the problem i think that cops would have with wearing cameras on them, think about it this way. if you had to walk around with a camera on you for eight hours a day or ten hours a day, however long you work, during your work day, every single thing you say is going to be recorded, scrutinized, and so forth. and i think that would put a hindrance on cops. it would create a problem with them in dealing with the everyday public. could it help? could it help in some weighs like this? perhaps. but i think overall i think it would behinder the cops' sensitivity to dealing with the public. >> but the question is one of justice. and listen, go ahead, mark. you said you disagree. why? >> i agree that we don't have to listen to every cop having a cup of coffee.

but if we had it in place where we said when you have an interaction that you know could help by being videotaped, you have an affirmative obligation to do so. they do wit cameras in the cars. we don't have them all on all the time. they turn them on when it's necessary. they call in and hit their radio when it's necessary. they take out a tape record when they believe it's necessary. it's 2014. use a camera as best you can. i agree not ten hours a day. but in this case, for example, if he had a camera on as he is pulling up to those two guys, turn it on. i think that would have helped a lot. >> hang on, the question, though, one of justice. because the parents don't feel like they have justice now. i spoke with the parents of michael brown last night. i want to play something that his mom and dead said to me. listen. are you okay, leslie? >> i'll be okay. i'm going to be okay. but right now, i'm not. i'm not okay.

>> your shirt says no justice. i would assume -- why are you wearing the shirt? >> because my son don't have justice. and we don't have no peace. if he has no justice, we won't get no peace. >> so the question is, carl, if there are cameras, would there be more accountability from police officers where maybe parents like this -- it still has to be investigated. but maybe parents like this won't be wondering where the justice is. >> well, don, i have represented families of police misconduct for over 35 years. and i can't imagine how any fair-minded student of police practices would be against the openness and the transparency that is promoted by having cameras. yes, i would not want a camera to be following me around all the time as well. but with a police officer, they

have tremendous responsibilities. and with those responsibilities come obligations. and for the family of mr. brown, for his grieving mother and his grieving father, having the security of that camera would be important. >> but carl, hold on. i just want to challenge you on that for a second. because what bernie kerik is saying, a camera could have a chilling effect on a police officer's judgment. they would be second guess everything that they did. and obviously in a moment of crisis, you don't want your police officers have to worry about a lawsuit. you want them to do what is right. >> trust me -- >> why -- sorry. >> go ahead, carl, just quickly. >> they should always do what is right whether there is a camera or not. initially, there may be some uncomfort, of course. but eventually, it will become second nature for all of them. >> okay. >> and more important, for justice. it's very important for these

challenges not only for the citizens, but also for the police. whenever i'm encountering some police action, there is always going to be two versions of what happens. but cameras, although they don't tell the whole story -- >> go ahead, mark. >> no. i was just going to say, and i think it was just said that police should always be doing the right thing, and they should always be doing what they're supposed to be doing. now, we do have to understand that if we're going to look at day in the life of a cop on video, we're going to have to understand in traumatic times and stressful times that. >> act like everybody else. they overreact on occasion. they act in traumatic situations and stressful situations. we're going to have to understand that they're not robots. but let's have the evidence, and then decide to interpret it. >> i wish we had more time to talk about this. thank you, guys. we really appreciate it. >> mike, bernie, carl, thank you so much for that debate. we'll be right back.

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this is cnn breaking news. >> welcome back, everyone. top of the hour. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. >> and i'm alisyn camerota. we've got much more tonight on the death of robin williams and how his co-stars are reacting. also, the death of hollywood icon lauren bacall in new york today. plus, our breaking news out of iraq. more than 130 additional u.s. military personnel being