this is cnn breaking news. >> good evening, everyone. i'm don lemon. breaking news tonight. i'm live in missouri. >> don, it's great to have you on the ground out there. i'm alisyn camerota here in new york. >> we have all the breaking details for you. i want to tell you now about police. we're hearing now that the police officer's name will be released tomorrow. the man who shot michael brown. we're hearing that here from ferguson tonight. i want you to take a look around, though, before we get to the breaking news. look around us. this is not a war zone. these are people who have gathered here peacefully. they want some tough questions

answered. they have gathered here with signs. and they're here with a number of people who can talk to us about what is going on. we have to answer a lot of questions. number one, do we want our police to be armed with military equipment? and number two about race in america, where more and more black men feel as if they have targets on their backs. do we want our citizens to feel that way, alisyn? >> and don, just to catch everyone up, michael brown was shot five days ago there in ferguson. but we still don't know exactly what happened. we don't know who started the fight or who pulled the trigger on that initial shot. when will we get those answers? we're going to get into all of that tonight. so let's go back to don lemon live in ferguson. >> all right, thank you very much, alisyn. joining me now is a man who has been in charge of security now, and that is captain ron johnson of the missouri highway patrol. also with us is chief john belmar of the st. louis county police department. and with us as well is major ronnie robinson of the st. louis

city police department. we have everyone here who knows about the investigation. again, before we get into all of that, it is a very different scene here. people feel that they can express themselves. they don't feel like they're in an occupied zone. what is going on tonight that makes it different? >> well, i think that we have a different approach that we're using this evening. and i think people are out here expressing their feelings, seeing old friends, sharing emotions. sharing pain, but also talking how we can heal and how we need to get better. and holding people accountable. when people are held accountable are the people that are standing here in front of you today. kirks you tell me the breaking news at the top of the show is that they're going to release the name of the police officer who shot michael brown. what do you know about that? >> i know that's been discussed. that's been a topic for the last two days on the timing on that, when it's going to happen. there was a lot of dynamics around that. i think it's not unusual to withhold those names. but i think in this case there

has been some serious talk between the prosecuting attorneys office and the ferguson police department on the timing of when that is going to happen. so i do think we're probably going to learn something in the next day or so. as far as i know, it's not happening tonight. >> it's not happening tonight. but we're hearing that it will happen tomorrow. that a possibility? >> right. so that's very unusual. but with the -- everything going on here, it's been discussed at the very highest levels. and that's a decision that the ferguson police department will be making. i'm sure they're getting that in order right now. >> can you tell us where we are in the investigation? >> so we've talked about that quite a bit. but the investigation is being completed right now. one of the struggles that we had was making sure that certain things came into the investigation. witnesses, different evidence that had to be analyzed. one of the things we'd like to do is go back seven days later, or eight days later and take a look at it again to try to capture anybody that could have been there at the time. well want to talk to everybody.

and then eventually, everybody, every shred of evidence, every witness statement, every piece of evidence will be presented to a grand jury so they can look at it. and they will make that determination. >> sergeant, we have been watching. i've been here all afternoon. i've seen the crowd building. people have been coming up to me saying thank you guys for being here. we're so happy that you're here. we feel different. well don't feel intimidated now. there is traffic backed up for a mile in both directions, and hundreds, if not thousands of people are out here. what is different tonight? why does this feel so different? >> because we came out and we engaged the crowd. we engaged the community. we've been talking to a lot of people all day. we started early this evening, talking to people and they were expressing themselves about the tragedy that happened in the community. we want them to know that we're just as concerned about what happened as they are. we want peace. they have a right to protest. if they want to protest 24 hours a day, they can do that. we're going to be right here with them, making sure that everything is peaceful. and we feel the pain in the community and we want to find

out other things that may be in the underlying surface that we can address to try to heal the community. >> captain, we don't want to get ahead of ourselves. this still a potentially volatile situation? >> you know, i think anything can change. but, you know, today i see a lot peace. i see a lot of smiles. i smiled more today than have i in the last three days. i'm not thinking what could be. i'm thinking about what is. >> what happened last night? >> you know, i'm not going talk about last night. but i can tell you, when i went to bed last night, i prayed for a better day, and we've got a better day. and i when i go down to my knees and say the prayer, i say it again last night. >> what about the military equipment and tactics last night that was a big concern. i know you don't want to talk about it, but i have to ask you the question. >> i tell you, we have changed that. we have taken gas masks off. you're not seeing officers with gas masks on their legs. and we're not going to --

they're not going to put them back on. but i can tell you, we will protect the safety of the people in this community. >> you're supposed to. >> we will protect the health and welfare of the small business owners in this business. >> that's right. >> i tell you, i walk down the street and saw my favorite barbecue restaurant with boards on it. and that's a small business person that makes our community. and there are several small businesses that make this community. and when this is over, i'm going to ride up and down this roadway and go to those restaurants and the bars down the street and have me a beer or two. we are going to preserve that is my community. i walk down here from my church, people i went to school with and people that i feel are a part of this. and there is frustration in my household too. i have a young son that is 21 and a daughter that is 23. and i have to answer the same questions that the parents out here have to answer. >> and those are? >> can my son and daughter walk the streets and feel safe. can my son and daughter walk with pride. and i'm going to make sure i do everything that they can have

that. michael brown's parents, i can't imagine losing a son. and my heart goes out to them. and i guarantee you that everyone here will have a chance to speak their mind. they can stay as long as they want. the only thing that i ask, that we keep our streets clear. if you want to stand on the sidewalk, you want to stand in this lot, you can stay as long as you want. >> i notice today, and i was actually in new york on the anchor desk last night, watching the unrest happen here. but when i walked up today, there was no fear. have you been out speaking to people, and what are they telling you? >> you know, the interesting thing about tonight is there is a lot of energy here tonight, but it's positive energy. and that's a new thing. we saw a lot of energy over the last few nightses, but it wasn't positive like it is today there has been a true change there really has been. >> are you saying is this an admission from you that the at the ticks -- that police handled the last couple of nights wrong. >> i would like to explain that a little bit, though. the energy here is better. but regardless of the optics, and i had an opportunity to talk to reverend sharpton this

morning, and he called me at home. the optics are not pretty. and if you're here personally over the last few nights, you saw that what we're proud of, though, is not one protester, not one rioter, and most importantly the people that live in this community have been seriously injured during this. so i'm sorry about the optics. i understand that. but this positive energy here tonight, it is really encourages me. >> the citizens are saying, listen, there is always one in the crowd. and the citizens are saying that they are the ones who are being intimidated by police. and they feel like they were positive for the most part, but officers weren't positive. >> i understand the perception in the community about that. i honestly do. and, again, we just want to build on the atmosphere here tonight to make sure that everything stays as safe as it possibly can. >> what does not only ferguson, but north county and police municipalities around this area need to do? because there are many people who live in the missouri area who say they feel like they're

under -- they're in militarized zones, that they're occupied. what do they need to do? does police need to reflect the community that they serve in? >> i believe in true diversity, i do. i think a police department should reflect the community that they serve. and i think that should be part of the strategies as far as every agency and every police department throughout the united states. so people will know the cultures of different people, all kind of people make a community. and if you got people in your agency that know the culture already, we can spread that type of knowledge amongst all officers so we can build a rapport again. >> we're being simulcast around the world. what do you want people to know? the whole world is watching. >> i want people to know that the reason we're out here today, the reason we're hurting, the reason we know we need to make some changes and make our community better, and i don't want it lost, is because of this young man right here there. >> you go. >> we love you, mike! >> it's not about personal egos. >> we love you, mike. >> it's not about -- it's about

the justice for everyone. and we need to make sure that everyone feels that way. but i don't want anybody out here to forget that this is why we're here. we're not going to always agree, but i can tell you that if our intent is to make things better, and it's sure that our kids know that they're going grow up in a better place and that their voice means something, no matter what your race, no matter what your age is. so let's not forget this. even in our anger and our toughest moments. when we're at our height when we're so angry, let's remember this as a calming force. >> someone just handed you that picture in the crowd. but as you say that, yet we stand here, and there is a burned out convenience store and gas station. that's not how you want this area to be remembered, i'm sure. >> you know what? i grew up here too. and went to restaurants and gyms right down the street. i don't want to see this happen to this area. have i friends who live down here.

we used to buy cars down here. kirks i ask you something? >> bottom line is, this area means something to all of us. and i want to see happen at the end of this is for this community to be rebuilt, be vibrant, and for the good people to live here to be able to enjoy their commerce and conveniences. >> so people here and around the country believe that many white in this country don't understand the relationship between blacks, especially black men, young black men and police. and there needs to be some rebuilding. what do you say to that as a white officer here? >> i say that regardless of how good we are of building bridges, regardless of how good we communicate, that it's important that we always strive to do a better job. it's important that we have diversity in our workforce. it's than that i make sure that commanders are selected on the department that represent our community, especially our african american community. and that's happening. >> is there a disconnect do you think, though? >> you know what? i think that depends where you are and the circumstance we find

ourselves in. but i see less of a disconnect now than i did 28 years ago. and i hope that continues to change. >> do you have a message to the family? especially since you're handling the investigation? and i'm sure they may be watching tonight. >> my goodness, i'm a father too. but i tell you what, i spent seven years as the lieutenant in charge of homicide. and at the end of the day, we work for the victims, and we work for the victims' families. and we try to be their voice. because at this point in time, we perhaps are the only voice they have left. >> listen, we're surrounded by people. they came when you walked up. these people were here hugging you. they weren't hugging the officers for the past week, past four or five days. >> i tell you what. i'm filled with a lot of pride. >> what is the difference? why are they responding to you so different? >> because i think they know what that i'm telling them is true, that my feelings are true and honest. and i made a promise. i made a promise about

integrity. trust is something that is hard to gain, but easy to lose. and i think i've got the trust. and i am going to do everything i can to maintain their trust. each morning we're going have an interview, we're going have a news interview, press conference, and we're going to talk about facts and what is going on. and they're going know what is going on. they have questions, i will give them answer. >> is it important that the officer's name be released? because a lot of people are demanding it. transparency. >> i think it's important we have open dialogue between each other and that information is given out. because without information given out, then we come up with our own answers. and if there is a feeling that someone feels that it was me and my name would be given out, then that feeling has to be the same on the other end. >> as a black officer in this area, do you think there is a disconnect between the african american community and the

police? >> i think that depends on the individuals. you know, you got individuals that can communicate with anybody, no matter what color or race they are. whatever age they are. you have to be professional at all times. and as commanders, we to make sure that our officers are trained properly and that they know how to communicate and understand that you need to get to learn of people and know a people before you can order and tell them what to do. you have to give respect in order to get respect. and that's what we've been doing all day long since we hit the ground out here is giving respect to the citizens out here. i want to hear y'all's story. i want to know what else is going on also. the event, the platform that started this whole thing and ignited this has the world's eye on us right now. we cannot let this be for vain. we cannot get involved in violence, looting, hurting and stealing and killing and hurting one another. we got to let everybody know that we can be organized and we got a point of view to express to the justice system that needs

to be transparency. there needs to be justice. and if any wrongdoing was done, we need to take care of that issue and we need to take care of it correctly. >> there is some very real concern, and i spoke to these guys about it, about the military equipment that these police departments are getting from the government because of the overflow from iraq and from afghanistan. and these police departments look like they are members of the military. people feel like they are being occupied. that is a real concern. what -- should that be happening? >> you know, you have to understand and look at every case. every case, every scenario differently and see what it poses as far as a threat and danger to the community. we got individuals that travel our streets with the same weapons. so we are to arm ourselves and be prepared to handle those type of situations. and we have to be smart and professional about when we utilize that type of weaponry. so there is a reason to have it and there are reasons not to use it at certain times. and we need to be professional enough to understand that. >> okay.

the captain said he is going to give a press conference every single day and give as much information as possible. can we get that promise when it comes to the investigation? because, again, it's about transparency, chief. >> yeah, it is. and the bottom line is i spoke about it just about 24 hours ago, just about the investigation, what the process was going to be. and the prosecuting attorney spoke about it at length yesterday. so we're trying to get a timeline out there to know what people expect, know what the process is, and so they understand that transparency, because there will be an answer at the end of the day. >> in the beginning, many witnesses had not been interviewed. where are you in that process? >> so we think we're probably at the tail-end of that process. but we want to make sure if anybody is out there that has a voice in this investigation, it's our responsibility to identify them, hear them, and present that to that grand jury. >> where are we as far as whether michael brown was the alleged altercation that supposedly happened in the car, what do we know than? we had two witnesses on last

night who said they saw michael brown trying to get away from the officer, and the officer was trying to hold him back in the car. and then once michael brown got away, he went about 25, 30 feet and then the officer kept firing, even though he had his hands up in the surrender position, kept firing even as he lay on the ground, until he died. >> that's an outstanding question. and i know people want answers to that. until i even have a clear answer of the entire story from talking to all the witnesses and reviewing all the reports, i don't have the ability to answer that right now. but i do appreciate the question. >> i got to tell you. when we have these answers, we will give those answers. and when we have answers to give, we will give answers. it's my hope when i stand up there each day and talk to you i have something to tell you. i have some information to give out. because what i don't is for rumors to be the answer. we need facts. >> even the president speaking out about this situation, of course talking about the family of michael brown and talking

about members of the police department. what do you make of the president's? were you able to listen to his comments today? >> have i not heard today. >> yes, i was. i think the president was on point with his views and his concerns. i really heard the word transparency when he spoke. we have to have transparency. we have to. but we also have to have patience. and this investigation is going to be so important to the whole world that we have to be very meticulous with it. we have to dot all our is and dot all our t's. >> i'm so happy to be here today and be to be able to tell this story and to witness a difference in the change that has happened over just just the last couple of hours. again, still, i would think you would agree with me, we're not out of the woods yesterday because it's still a potentially volatile situation. but it certainly is a market change from before. thank you very much.

>> thank you. >> thank you. i appreciate you joining us. thank you so much. thank you very much. and listen, i want to tell everybody just before they go, they walked up just a couple minutes before we went on the air. i wasn't sure i was going to have them on the air. and when they walked up, the crowd just gathered around them. and you could feel the support. they're around us not because necessarily they want to be on television, not necessary by they're angry, they're around us because they're supporting this captain and they're supporting the people here. and they just want their voices to be heard. also in the crowd with me tonight is cnn's jake tapper. jake, i can't see you, but where are you and what are you seeing? [ honking ] >> i'm down the street, don. as has been noted, it is a peaceful demonstration going on here. although a boisterous one as well. no violence, none of the militaristic items that we saw

from police in previous days. in fact, the police presence seems relatively minimal. they've been blending in with the crowd. a lot of people out talking about wanting, needing justice for the family of michael brown. a lot of people holding up their hands with a chant, "hands up, don't shoot," repeating, replicating what michael brown is said to have done that night, as the story goes that he had his hands up when he was shot. of course as the officers noted there is still much about that night that we don't know. just to give people an idea of the geography here, you are down there about a block away. this is canfield, the street behind me. this is the street on which michael brown was visiting his grandmother. and it's a street about a block that way where he was shot and killed on saturday. but as you can see, this has become an event nightly.

and tonight it is an event that is -- i wouldn't say it's jubilant at all, because people are protesting, but it is much less fearful than it has been in previous nights. people are holding up their hands. there is a sense of community here. it is a relatively diverse group. you do see whites, african americans, latinos, grandmothers, children. there are some new black panthers here who have been helping to keep traffic flowing. there are other groups with bandannas around their face. they say that's in solidarity with the internet hackers anonymous who have been supportive of their cause they say. that's the reason. in any case, so far we seem to have avoided detection by the crowds, which is stunning to me. but there are people right now behind us saying "hands up, don't shoot." >> hands up! >> don't shoot. >> i don't know why that chuckie doll is there.

that's odd. in any case, don, back to you. >> thank you. thank you. jake, thank you very much. and alisyn, i do have to say that the moment i got here, it was a little tense driving in. once i got into the crowd, it's interesting because all that we have seen on television for the past couple days is fear, fear, fear, and violence, violence, violence. i didn't feel any of that. just to be honest with you, the only thing people wanted to do here is to be heard, to be felt that their voices were heard. they wanted to know that people understood their feelings, that they felt intimidated, they felt they were occupy bade police force. they were tired of discrimination happening over years and years and years. i've lived in this community. so i know the disconnect between the police department's police officers and the community. i didn't feel any of that fear. people are walking up to me saying thank you, i'm so glad that you're here. please tell our story. it's all in the handling of the situation. >> yes.

don, i agree. i was going ask you how much of a role you think captain johnson has had. he seems like such a voice of reason. >> huge. >> and from the moment that he had that press conference this afternoon, during which he said we are in this together, he said i'm going to be in the crowd tonight. >> yes. >> we're all in it together. and the fact that he comes from that community, he seems like a real voice of reason. and it seems like he in particular has changed the tone since last night. >> you know, when you say -- when you and i met, and i said you know what? i can relate to you. you can relate to me. that's what people -- and listen, don't get me wrong. i think there is a difference in that he is african american and people want to see someone who is in a position of authority, especially a police officer who looks like them. who relates to them, who understands their plight. >> that's right. >> and doesn't treat them like they are some criminal on the street before they -- before

they find out exactly what is going on. they want to know that someone understands their story. and gives them the benefit of the doubt. the same benefit of the doubt that you give a police officer, you should give that same benefit of the doubt to an unarmed young black man. >> of course. and don, that raises the issue of the disparity in the ferguson police department. why there are only three black officers when the population is 63% black. so we're going to get into all of that don. i can't wait to hear more of what you experienced today and what people have been telling you on the street. so stick around. when we come back, police say they will tomorrow identify the officer who shot the unarmed black teenager michael brown. so when we get some more answers, we're going to speak to a man whose family has long been involved in the struggle for civil right, martin luther king iii. >> look that it looks like a burned out relic of a war zone. it wasn't that way. that's the quick trip behind me.

it wasn't that way saturday when michael brown and his family left here walking towards their apartment building. since then it has become a place where protesters gather, and also where the media is gathering as well. again, it's a quick trip. not far down the street is where michael brown lives. if you can see the red light over there, just a couple of yards, couple hundred yards that way. read this. "don't shoot, don't shoot our youth, our future." moderate to severe is tough, but i've managed. i got to be pretty good at managing my symptoms, except that managing my symptoms was all i was doing. when i finally told my doctor, he said my crohn's was not under control. he said humira is for adults like me who have tried other medications but still experience the symptoms of moderate to severe crohn's disease. and that in clinical studies, the majority of patients on humira saw significant symptom relief.

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after all, we do have a black president. but how much have we really changed? we're joined now by martin luther king iii, global human rights activist and the eldest son of the reverend dr. martin luther king jr. thank you so much. it's really important to get your voice on this. what do you make of what the officers said who were here just before the break, talking about how they're handling this situation? >> well, it certainly appears that confidence is being reacquired by the community. which is so important. we have seen this kind of behavior, but perhaps not fatal all over america, unfortunately. you talk about post racial, and we're not there yet. we are much better society than we were 50 years ago. but we still have obstacles to overcome to address crisis situations, because fatalities like this just should not occur. you may know that earlier today

i believe or maybe yesterday an african american male and who they said was deranged because gunned down by police in los angeles. >> yeah, we told that story last night. >> earlier in new york today, an african american man was with a woman and the police just accosted him and arrested him and wouldn't say why. so, you know, this behavior of -- it's almost like we apprehend black folk first, or maybe we shoot first and ask questions later. and that culture has to change. >> i want to ask you this, because i got this message from a friend yesterday after the writing. and he said when a man is denied the right to live the life he believes in, he has no choice but to become an outlaw that was nelson mandela. do you this they relates to the rioting and the unrest that happened here? >> absolutely. any time you push people's backs up against the wall, and as you may know, my father used to say that violence. you mentioned something like this early, but not necessarily saying it as it related to my

dad. but he used to say violence is the language of the unheard. we just heard the captain from the state police, as well as the chief of st. louis and the major basically say that we have come out and we're talking to people. people want to be heard. and you just reported that's what the people want. it doesn't mean that that creates a solution. but it means that people are heard. they are treated with dignity and respect. >> let's listen to something your father said. this was at stanford university. it was back in 1967. here it is. >> i think america must see that riots do not develop out of thin air. certain conditions continue to exist in our society, which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. and in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard.

>> what would your father say about what went on in ferguson last night, the shooting, the violent protests, the militarized police fwheerks would he say? >> you know, i always say i'm not sure any of us are equipped to actually say what he would say. we can certainly quote from his writings as it relates to behavior. but he would certainly be very -- more than concerned. thinking that in the united states of america some of this, they went through in the late '50s and '60s. but to have tanks and to have military gear in 2014 is absolutely unconscionable. there has to be a better way to maintain order than what occurred last night. that is going to be one day looked at as a huge mistake. and i think police need to admit, okay, maybe we've made a mistake. then you can move forward. but if you don't say you made a mistake and continue to say this

is the way we have to operate, it continues to be a problem in communities. >> mr. king, it's alisyn here in new york. i want to get your reaction to civil rights leader and congressman john lewis. let me read to it you. he said it's a shame and a disgrace that a city with a significant african american population has only three representatives from that community on the police force. what kind of a police department is it that would refer to the people it is trying to protect as animals? it is unbelievable that these ideas could run rampant in 2014. this is not 1940 or 1950 in america, but today it is hard to see the difference. do you agree that today it's hard to see the difference from 1950? that seems awfully strong. >> i think what the congressman was saying was as it relates to this specific incident, it is hard to see the difference. but he also talked about how much progress i believe i happened to be in the studio in msnbc when he did his interview. he talked about how much progress we made. but this particular incident did

bring people back to the minds of the '40s, the '50s and maybe even early '60s. >> martin luther king iii, it's been great to have your insight with us tonight. thank you so much for talking to us. >> thank you. >> let's go back to don there in ferguson. >> all right. >> thank you, ali. you're joining me here in ferguson now is gerald christmas. he is a defense attorney. he is also a former prosecutor for the city of st. louis. thank you for joining us. what is your reaction? i don't know if you were able to hear you. were standing in the crowd, hear the captain, the major and the chief talk about the difference and getting out and talking to people here in the community? >> i did get a chance to hear him. but i was glad that they got out here, that they pulled st. louis county police out and brought in the state troopers. st. louis county police, they were out of control. i was here yesterday when they shut down the mcdonald's, and they arrested the journalists. you know, everybody was just out here peaceful. and all of the sudden here come the police, lock arm, ak-47s,

moving everybody. it was broad daylight. nothing was going on. it was a lady, she had her son in mcdonald's. she was scared she couldn't get him out. so i went to talk to her to try to calm her down and say certainly the police are going to let you get him out. and they were out of control. >> i want to know if you're more hopeful. and also, what is interesting to me, i wonder if -- that's fireworks. >> that's fireworks. that's fireworks. we know gunshots. >> i'm wondering if they're concerned about this. i'm wondering if there is any concern about the police department here not being able to have the respect of the community again? >> that's a major concern. you know, right now the community has lost faith in the prosecutor's office and the st. louis county police department. what needs to happen is that the fbi needs to come here to take over the entire case. it doesn't need to be a parallel investigation. they need to take the case over. and then the governor needs to appoint a special prosecutor. that's what is going to bring the anxiety and the tension level down, because right now, as long as it's in the hands of

the county prosecutor and the st. louis county police, it's going to keep tension going. >> and you can see the tension and how people are on edge. somebody puts fireworks and everyone gets afraid. thank you very much, gerald christmas. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> ali, back to you. >> thank you so much, don. we'll get back to you momentarily there are still so many questions in this story. one of the most important, we understand will be answered tomorrow when police say they will identify the officer who shot michael brown. i'll ask two law enforcement professors how this case has been handled so far. so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates.

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i want to call your attention to two different scenes on your screen right now. on the right side of your screen is ferguson, missouri. that's where there is a peaceful protest tonight for justice for michael brown, the unarmed teenager who was shot five days ago. then on the left side of your screen, a thousand miles away from ferguson, missouri, is time's square, new york, where another peaceful protest is under way. the protesters there say that they are marching tonight -- or i should say gathering and assembling to pay honor or tribute to victims of police brutality. so similarly themed things happening across the country. time's square and ferguson, missouri. we'll be getting back to

ferguson and don lemon shortly. but first, it's been five days since the killing of unarmed black teenager michael brown in ferguson. and tomorrow police say they will identify the officer who shot him. joining us now to discuss how the ferguson police department has handled all of this is bernard kerik. he is a former new york police commissioner. and jeffrey blackwell. he is the chief of police at the cincinnati police department. gentlemen, thank you so much for being here. chief blackwell, i want to start with you. you said you would have handled this much differently than the way they have in ferguson. what would you have done? >> well, first, i'd like to say that the city of cincinnati is certainly praying for the michael brown family and the entire community of ferguson, missouri. and i do think that we would have handled this situation a little differently because we believe in truth telling and being transparent with our community here in cincinnati. >> so in other words, the fact that tomorrow will be the sixth day since michael brown was shot, and we don't know anything about the officer, you would

have what, released information about him or his name immediately? >> absolutely. i think the public has a right to know what is going on. and the only way that you build collaboration is through trust and through relationship. and it has to be authentic. and so when you're trying to build relationships and then maintain them, you have to work at it. and folks have to know that you are going to tell the truth in a timely fashion. >> bernie, tonight it is peaceful thus far in ferguson. but last night was a different story. we saw the police agencies there roll out in tanks, and with all sorts of weaponry on them. what did you think about how they handled the protests last night? >> well, i have to tell you, i would a bit disturbed by some of the stuff i saw. you had some it appeared to be special operations command type people with long arms at the

ready, at the fire ready pointing weapons at people that were obviously unarmed. you don't aim a weapon like that at someone unless you're prepared to shoot. some of the stuff i saw last night was pretty disturbing. and this goes to the whole militarization of our police agencies. look, there is a use for it. it's snag is required and needed in certain agencies. but in my own county in new jersey, where i live we have departments 10, 15 men, 20 people on a department. and they want a s.w.a.t. team. it's almost like they want to be dressed up with nowhere to go. i don't -- and it's something i disagree with. >> these pictures on the left side of the screen are pictures from last night. and the point has been made that it doesn't look like smalltown usa. some of these pictures look like a war zone. they look like they could be coming out of iraq. but chief blackwell, i want to figure out what you would have

done. the police chief in ferguson said that they were getting rocks and bricks and bottles thrown at them. they had reports of molotov cocktails being lit. what are you supposed to do in a situation like that? >> well, first i'd like to say that we don't want to disparage any department or officer or any action that has been taken thus far. i just want to simply offer that if you have strong relationships from the beginning, things progress differently. and when you have a crisis, and make no mistake about it, several communities in this country are one incident away from civil unrest, when you have a crisis, it's far too late to start to try to develop a relationship. >> of course. but when you do have that unrest, when it happen, and it did happen in ferguson. >> right. >> then as police chief, what are you supposed to do? >> you get out in the trenches and you talk to people, and you leverage your relationships with your community who know you.

you know, interestingly enough, i was in new york city a little while ago, and i talked to the reverend al sharpton. and he told me, he said chief, if people call me and want me to come to your city, then they don't have a relationship with you. and so i never want that to be the case in the city of cincinnati. people know me. they see me. i'm in the community. our officers police the city the right way. and make no mistake about it, there is a right way to police. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. please stick around, if you would, commissioner kerik and chief blackwell. we do want to check back in with you later on other topics. but up next, more on these weapons of war in the streets. how did the impeachments in america become so militarized? we'll tell you the history. many of my patients still clean their dentures with toothpaste.

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more on our breaking news. new protests tonight in ferguson, missouri. five days after an unarmed black teenager was shot by a police officer. things we are happy to report are much calmer tonight. but over the past few days, we've seen police armed with what can only be described as weapons of war. and critics say they have no place in america's streets. joining us now to discuss this are radial liall radlye balco a

general russell honore of the u.s. army. he is author of "leadership and the new normal." thank you so much for being here. bradley, i want to start with you. we've seen these pretty jaw dropping photos on the streets of ferguson. it looked like there were all sorts of military grade weapons. tell us what you saw when you looked at these pictures. >> i saw the continuation of a trend that has been going on for about 35 years. the policing in america has been becoming increasingly militarized. we've seen literally millions of pieces of military equipment, equipment was designed for use on a battlefield, we're talking tanks, armed personnel careers, helicopters, grenaenade launche transferred to fortunates across the country.

>> and why did that happen? >> it's surplus. it began informally under the reagan administration. it was turned into a formal program by congress in the 1990s. and the thinking was we need to fight the drug wars, or the drug war motived this. we need to fight the drug war as if it were a literal war. part of doing that was making this surplus military equipment available. the equipment is bad. i think it's problematic not just because of the gear itself, but also the mentality it fosters in police officers. when you're dressed like a soldier and trained like a soldier and armed like a soldier and trained in military tactics and told that you're fighting a war, whether it's a war on crime or war on drugs or war on terror, at some point you're going to start to take that literally and start to assume the mind-set of a soldier. and soldier's mind-set isn't appropriate in domestic policing. >> general, stand by for a second. don lemon is in ferguson. he has a question for you. >> yeah, general, i have to be honest with you. i wanted you to come here with me today, but we couldn't

coordinate it because i remember the response being there, the response when you came in to new orleans after katrina and those people felt that they had been occupied. they weren't getting -- people weren't hearing them. the people i spoke to today said they felt like they were part of a militarized zone here. i remember that one moment in new orleans where one of the officers pointed his gun at someone, and you took him to task for it. and it seems that's what the captain here is doing. very similarly to what you did in new orleans. >> absolutely. we're there to protect people. in that case we were there to evacuate them and provide them food and water there is no need to point a weapon at civilians. and officers do that, they need to go through retraining. you should not point combat type weapons directly at people. >> does it make a difference, though, and it appears just from my limited experience here, make a difference the way you treat

people, not pointing weapons at them and engaging them on the streets and engaging them where they are? >> absolutely. the people have to always remember that you are there to protect them. and you will only go after people who put them in danger. and it's not the job of the police or any service of the armed forces to threaten people with weapons. you're there to protect people and be prepared to deal with people who may break the law. but you're there to protect the people. and they need to sense that from you. but when you have an officer, as we saw in the last 24 hours, setting there, looking through a scope into a crowd, that sends the wrong message. >> i want to get lieutenant colonel rick francona's take on all of this. colonel, i know that you have just joined us, there are some veterans who have been sending out tweets about these pictures that we're seeing on the other side of the screen right now. and here are some of the tweets

thatty read to you, and you can tell me if you agree. one of them says the gentleman on the left has more personal body armor and weaponry than i did while invading iraq. another one says i don't know how it was in iraq and afghanistan, but in bosnia we had less firepower while on patrol than the cops in ferguson. another one says police have tons of military gear, but they're not exactly militarized. i know of plenty of line infantry units more compassionate than this. what do you think when you hear all this? >> i agree with everything the general and radley said. the impression that people get when they see this, you know, they look like soldiers and they start acting like soldiers. but if you're the person on the other end of that and you see this, soldiers are there to protect a civilian population. but when soldiers protect a civilian population, their guns are pointed the other way and they move the other way. when there is some in an am wrap or an armored vehicle moving toward you, that looks like an

assault, and you react that way. so rather than protecting and making things safer, they exacerbate the situation. i think that's what we saw last night. >> but, again, when somebody is letting a molotov cocktail in the crowd, and you're getting reports that there are things like that happening, what are the police -- with what level of force is the ferguson police department supposed to respond? >> i'm not a law enforcement officer, but i can't imagine that you need an m-rap to disfuse the situation. the presence of that type gear may have led to the increased violence rather than putting it down. >> all right. thank you so much, gentlemen. stick around, please. we will be back live with much more on tonight's protests in ferguson, missouri. captain obvious: i probably wouldn't stay here tonight.

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don, we see you there in the middle of the crowd in ferguson, missouri. tell me what you experienced there today. >> well, i have to say right now i just turned around and looked at the crowd. i don't know what -- i can't see the pictures here. but i mean, it looks like a parade. it looks like a victory parade. we know it's not a victory parade, though. we know a young man tragically lost his life. we know it's not the end of conflicts with police officers and with young people and with people of color all over the country. but i'm witnessing -- i mean, listen, people are coming up to me. and they're happy that we're here. and they're happy at the change.

and it's a marked difference. >> yeah, it does seem like the tone and the activity and everything is different than what you and i watched last night when there was tear gas being fired. >> oh, my gosh, yeah. we were reporting last night. remember, sitting on the anchor desk and interviewing eyewitnesses, and then all of the sudden we have to do breaking news because police are throwing tear gas into crowds to try to get them to disperse. and the interesting thing is that a very small thing made a big difference. and that is someone came in and started relating to the people. and that made a big difference so far. >> right. i know you're referring to -- >> this is cnn breaking news. >> welcome back, everyone. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon live in ferguson, missouri. >> and i'm alisyn camerota in new york. >> and alisyn, we have more on our breaking news ni