i'm candy crawley. fareed zakaria gps starts right now. this is "gps" the global public square. welcome to all of you in the united states and around the world. i'm fareed zakaria. we'll start today's show stepping back to try to understand what are the larger forces that have set the middle east on fire? in iraq, syria, palestinian territories, is america inching back into military conflict there? should it? also, if you think the relations between the united states and russia are rough right now, just wait. russia intends to soon have a spy station in cuba again.

what in the world? and a cheap nuclear power plant that uses nuclear waste as its fuel. sounds like a pipe dream? well, i will introduce you to a woman named one of time's 30 under 30 who says she can make it a reality. then in the workplace, germans will unabashedly tell you that your work is terrible while americans will say nice things before they criticize you. a cultural map of the world and how to navigate those differences. but first here's my take. hillary clinton expressed what has become washington's new conventional wisdom when she implied in her recent interview with jeffrey goldberg in "the atlantic" that supporting moderates in the region might have prevented the rise of the islamic state in iraq and syria. in fact, america has provided massive and sustained aid to the moderates in the region.

remember, isis was created in iraq and grew out of that country's internal dynamics and went into syria later. over the last decade the united states helped organize iraq's moderates, the shiite dominated government, gave them tens of billions of dollars in aid and supplied and trained their army. but, it turned out, the moderates weren't that moderate and they turned authoritarian and sectarian. sunni opposition movements grew and jihad did i opposition groups like isis gave tacit or active support. this is a familiar pattern throughout the region. for decades now american foreign policy in the middle east has been to support moderates. great. the only problem is there are actually very few moderates. the arab world is going through a bitter sectarian struggle that is, quote, carrying the islamic world back to the dark ages says

turkey's president. in these circumstances moderates either become extremists or they lose out in the brutal power struggles of the day. look at iraq, syria, egypt, libya, and the palestinian territories. the middle east has been trapped for decades. between hosni mubarak and al qaeda leaving little space in between. the dictators shot down all opposition movements and the ones that survive are vengeful and violent. there was an opening after the arab spring in 2011 and 2012 but it rapidly closed. the best example was egypt where the muslim brotherhood had a chance to govern inclusively but then refused. then without waiting for vindication, egypt's old dictatorship rose up. all this leads to an underground

and violent opposition. perhaps the biggest stretch is the idea that the moderates in syria could win. it's one thing to believe that moderates can organize the world, make their case and go to the polls, but the assad regime turned their guns on it very quickly. in that circumstance the groups that are going to gain power are those who will fight, fight back and with zeal and ferocity. consider the new head of the western-backed syrian opposition who now urges more support from moderates like him. a successful businessman of decency and sincerity, he left syria in 1983, more than 30 years ago. how likely is it that people like him can take over from those on the ground who are fighting and dying? in an excellent essay for the washington post george washington university professor mark lynch cites careful historical studies that demonstrate in a chaotic,

violent civil war such as syria's with many outside players funding their favorite groups, u.s. intervention would have had little effect other than to extend and exacerbate the conflict. had the plan to arm syria's rebels been adopted back in 2012, lynch writes the most likely scenario is that the war will look much as it does today except that the united states would be far more intimately and deeply involved. believing that the moderates in syria could win is not tough foreign policy talk, it is a naive fantasy with dangerous consequences. for more go to cnn.com/fareed and read my "washington post" column this week. and let's get started. okay. you heard my thoughts about the big picture and moderates. let's get in a great panel that will have diverse views on these subjects. emma sky was the chief political advisor to the commander of u.s.

forces in iraq from 2007 to 2009. she's now a senior fellow at the jackson institute of global affairs at yale. richard huss was at the state department in the early years of the iraq war. shadi hamid is a fellow at the brookings institute and the author of "temptations of power, islamists and democracy in the new middle east." and david kill cullen served as senior advisor to general david petraeus. he was an architect of the surge. david, militarily is it fair to say that the u.s. operations in iraq have succeeded in their objectives so far? >> i think it's a little unclear what the objectives are beyond

the immediate humanitarian relief of the population on the mountain in sinjar. it's certainly true that the introduction of u.s. air power has changed the tactical calculus for the islamic state which has gone from being much more conventional, operating in daylight, and, you know, raiding cities in a very open way to now embedding within the population, in urban areas and acting much more like the original al qaeda sort of guerrilla style. >> but you can operate like that and be a spoiler but it's tough to hold territory if you can't operate in daylight the way you would. >> i think we can say that american air power will successfully blunt any further expansion of isis to capture cities but air power alone is going to be very difficult to roll them back from where they are now. >> richard, what should one do next? what is the strategic objective the united states should have? should it stay as limited as president obama wants it to be or should we double down and provide the iraqis with much more support? >> to begin with, we need a

strategic objective that goes beyond humanitarian protection of yazidis and protection of u.s. personnel. we need to degrade as far and as fast as we can isis. what that means is concerted air power across iraq and across syria. this border has gone for all intents and purposes. we ought not to respect it. plus in the model of the last few days should teach us something. we do need ground forces. air power can do something. good news is, we have a partner. the kurds. what we ought to do is get as many arms and as much intelligence training and help to them as quickly as possible. they can essentially be the ground forces married up to american air power. that could make a real difference against isis. >> you make a point, david, i think that's very important that people understand. so we're trying to degrade isis. that's very important, and we're doing it in iraq to support the

iraqi government, but once it crosses the non-existent border to syria, isis is actually trying to do what the united states wants, which is defeat bashar al assad. >> well, i think it's a problem in a sense in successfully defeating isis without also changing the relationship between iran and the iraqi government could end up with a result where you have iranian dominated territory all the way from western afghanistan to the golan heights. that will be hard to spin as an american success. we need to deal with isis first. that doesn't mean that assad's off the hook. isis is the greater threat. as we say in australia, it's the crocodile closest to the canoe but after that there are other things that need to be done. >> you argue that crushing isis is paramount. the battle against assad should almost take a back seat. >> i don't quite understand the crocodile reference but i agree totally with sequencing. the priority has to set back isis. they're a global threat, not

just a middle eastern threat. they could be a threat to ourselves, european societies. assad, despite his war crimes, he is he's a local threat. right now it ought to be on isis and bolstering the kurds. i think in the midst of this we need, therefore, to put the idea of an attacked iraq. would he face a different group from al qaeda. it's a really dangerous agenda. not just for us but for all the people in the middle east. >> one of the things the obama administration has been very fixated on is without some kind of significant political restructuring in iraq, all this doesn't matter. you watched your -- the chief political advisor during malaki's prime ministership and you watched after you left.

do you think humpty dumpty can come back. >> it will be a change. there are people who can defeat isis are sunnis. the u.s. can help contain them. the peshmerga can help detain them. we've seen that the local population has given sanctuary to isis and is sometimes supporting isis. why is this? this was not inevitable. in 2007, 2008 we saw the sunni sheiks totally rejected al qaeda. they worked together with the u.s. not only to contain but actually to defeat. they have changed their attitude because of the policies of nuri al-maliki over the past few years. nothing is set in stone. people make alliances and change allegiances all the time in the middle east so that is possible,

but it's going to need the recruitment locally of new sunni forces that then decide they're going to take on isis. >> one quick thought before we go to break. you see syria as much more central here, correct? >> yeah. definitely. >> we're focusing on iraq, but this all -- it started in iraq but grew in syria. >> yeah. the rise of isis is tied more to the syrian civil war and bashar al assad is really the root cause of the problem in many ways, that you had peaceful protesters in 2011. they were being shot down and then more and more syrians took up arms. we had an opportunity early on, in early 2012, to intervene militarily in syria and many of us were calling for that, not just arming the so-called moderate rebels but targeted airstrikes, the creation of safe zones. that's what was necessary then. and many observers warned the obama administration, if you

don't do more now, this is going to come to haunt you in the future, that the radicals are going to rise, they're going to gain ground. that's precisely what's happened now. and i think in some ways it's too late. even if we had the ideal president doing the idealist of things, so much damage has been done over the last three years, and this is why sometimes if you keep on waiting, if you keep on dithering, the costs are tremendous. >> we're going to have to take a break. when we come back we'll talk more about syria, about gaza, and of course inevitably about the obama administration when we come back. infrastructure, and dedicated support, free you to focus on what matters. centurylink. your link to what's next.

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around we are back with emma sky, shadi hamid, david haas. i want to pick up on why you say we have all these brutal dictators on one hand and you have groups like isis on the other which is that the dictators, the leaders of the arab world are actually much more threatened by moderate opposition groups than they are by extreme opposition groups. they kind of like the idea that the only thing that -- that the only alternative to them is al qaeda, right? >> yeah. i mean, groups like isis are perfect for dictators like bashar al assad because he can point to them and say, well, this is what you get when you have an opening of political space. and i think one of the most dangerous developments of the past three years is that you did have mainstream islamist groups like the muslim brotherhood. yes, they're deeply ill liberal.

we don't share their values as americans, but they do believe in the democratic process. they're not using violence like groups like isis. they try to work through the process in countries like egypt, and of course there was a military coupe last year. there was a devastating crackdown. now groups like isis are saying forget about the muslim brotherhood, they're gradualists and soft. we can give you the islamic state not in 20 years or 50 years, we can give it to you now through brute force and through violence. what i'm really worried about now is violence is, working in today's middle east. that is one of the legacies, ironically, of the arab spring. >> emma, what do you think about this issue looking at it on the ground in iraq? you saw these sunni extremist groups, you saw shia, you know,

militias of various kinds. if you -- if we support some of these grice, will they turn out to stay moderate? >> i think when you speak to ordinary people across the middle east what they want for their lives is similar to what people all over the world want. they want to live in safety. they want to send their kids to school. they want to be able to earn a living. we can't say that the only choice for these people is either iranian backed sec torn or authoritarian regime or al qaeda isis type. that cannot be the only choice given to them. so i think there is the potential to build a different type of government. >> okay. we're going to have to -- i just want -- before we go, i want to ask, is there something that the obama administration should be doing right now specifically with regard to the iraq isis situation that it isn't? >> i would say, yes. we should articulate a much larger strategic purpose which

is to weaken isis across the board. we should attack them wherever we can find them. >> and what are the resources that would be required? >> absolutely. >> you are committing yourself to a fairly sectarian government in baghdad. >> no, we do not do it on the government of baghdad. >> through the kurds? >> or go after these guys. they are a strategic threat. >> you do that militarily? >> yes. it wouldn't necessarily involve inviting occupying any territory. >> the key is you wouldn't do it through a shiite dominated government. do you see? >> yes. >> you don't want the sunnis to think the united states is engaging in an anti-sunni war. if it's done by the kurds it has a different flavor. >> it's already happening. if you talk to the yazidis, they were saying there are americans on the top of the mountain so it's not like we just turned up and did an assessment. >> you're comfortable with that? >> i would say that you will soon need outreach to the sunni

population. you can't just have a military response and not have people reaching out to the tribes, reaching out to sunnis to try and say, look, we will support you if you turn against isis. >> i'm trying to like an auctioneer get consensus here. we seem to have a strategy that the united states should follow. would you buy it? >> yeah, i agree generally, but, again, let's not forget about syria. again, i just go back to this is the root cause in many ways. we as americans, we're obsessed about iraq. we're always fighting the last war. that's very american centric. this has been going on in syria for the last three years. let's understand -- let's understand syria, focus on syria, and i think we have to introduce airstrikes there as well. and that goes along with supporting the less extremists, i'll use that term, the less extremist syrian rebels who can fight both isis and the assad regime. >> on that note of some measure of consensus, thank you all very much. fascinating conversation. next on "gps," putin's

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now for our "what in the world" segment. remember last december when president obama shook hands with cuban president raul castro at nelson mandela's memorial service and got a lot of criticism for it? in truth, it didn't signal anything between the united states and cuba. the cuban lesson of note is a different one with vladimir putin who recently made the long trip to havana. while there, putin forgave about $32 billion worth of debt that cuba had accrued from the former soviet union decades ago and that russia had inherited. that's 90% of cuba's outstanding debt to moscow. in addition, russian officials recently confirmed that cuba has also provisionally agreed to re-open a spy post. this eavesdropping facility 150 miles off the coast of florida allowed russia to spy on the

united states until it closed in 2001. putin denied claims that he was reopening the listening post in cuba, but many experts doubt his denial. what in the world is going on? remember that when the soviet union collapsed in 1991, havana lost billions in aid and subsidies from moscow. the cuban economy plunged contracting by about 1/3. then cuba found another oil rich regime to prop it up, venezuela. trade with venezuela accounted for about 20% of cuba's gdp in 2012, but plunging oil production and political instability in venezuela means that cuba needs to build new ties. enter vladimir putin who is in his latest incarnation trying to show the world that he doesn't need the west and that russia can forge its own global ties. the moscow/havana alliance is a sad setback because cuba was actually on the road to reform.

since raul castro replaced his brother fidel as president in 2008, he's begun a series of changes that point to liberalization. in the past three years parts of the economy were transferred from the state to the private sector as cuba slowly edged towards capitalism. for the first time in 50 years cubans were allowed to openly buy and sell homes and to set up restaurants. they could even purchase modern foreign cars. farmers can now work on land that is not state opened. cuba seemed also to be gaining traction in other areas. remittances in travel have increased. cuba reopened stalled relations with the european union. these are positive even if some have been half-hearted and tepid. raul castro is trying to do what so many autocrats do. reform fast enough to fix the

sluggish economy but slow enough for the communist party to maintain control of it. well, now cuba's transition to openness may have suffered a major set back given the news of its renewed alliance with russia. but the united states is guilty as well, of empowering the stalinists within cuba's government who are making the road to capitalism hard and slow. what is washington doing? maintaining its highly ineffective 50 year embargo against cuba. every year for the past 22 years the united nations has demanded an end to no avail. the embargo,en exclusion from institutions like the world bank, have isolated cuba from america and from its influences and it has allowed countries like china, the second largest trading partner, to make deals with havana. it's not just putin who is coming in the cold past, it's washington as well. up next, you will hear about a plant that eats nuclear waste, is relatively inexpensive, and

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president obama recent bely announced big plans to cut carbon emissions from power plants. will this be a death blow to fossil fuels and lower c o2 emissions? well, no. under these new restrictions carbon emitting coal and natural gas are still expected to make up about 2/3 of american electricity in 2030. so it led me to wonder, is there another way? my next guest says yes. leslie dewan is co-founder and chief science officer of trans atomic power. she's one of time's 30 people under 30 changing the world. she has a fascinating idea that could be a game changer. i wanted to have her on to talk about it. so, lesli e, you came up with this idea after finishing your

qualifying exams for a ph.d. at m.i.t. you had some free time so you and a friend decided, what? >> well, my classmate and i, mark nassi, right after we finished our qualifying exams decided we wanted to do something big, different, interesting. we figured this was the smartest we were going to be for a while because we had just finished studying 14 hours a addai for two months. >> so dewan and her classmates started looking into nuclear reactor designs. they reasoned that nuclear power is carbon free, sustainable, and can generate great quantities of electricity. in fact, they couldn't imagine tackling climate change and keeping up with the world's energy demands which are projected to increase by 50% in the next three decades without a significant expansion in nuclear power, so in 2011 she incorporated a company called the trans atomic power corporation. what are the problems that you

are trying to solve? >> each conventional nuclear power plant produces about 20 metric tons of high level waste that are radioactive. there isn't really a solution for it yet. >> until now perhaps. using a design that was invented 50 years ago, they created the waste annihilating molton salt reactor or wamsr. it uses molten salt to dissolve nuclear fuel. that ultimately reduces both the radioactivity and the amount of waste. the new reactor could create just 10 to 20 kilograms of long lived waste per year instead of the 20 metric tons produced by a commercial plant. 20 kilograms of waste is about the size of a grapefruit. >> the remaining waste that comes out, it's waste that's radioactive for just a few hundred years, so much shorter

than the hundreds of thousands of years from other plants. >> here's another big plus. around the world today there exists about 270,000 metric tons of high level nuclear waste. wamsr could eat that waste and turn it into electricity. so this sounds great. why wouldn't everybody -- why wouldn't everybody adopt this design? >> that's what we're hoping ultimately. >> is your plan more expensive? >> we -- it's actually about half the cost per megawatt overnight construction of conventional nuclear reactors. we can be on par with coal, and we're trying to reduce the costs further to make it on par with natural gas. >> the idea may be cost effective, but innovation in nuclear is often thwarted because of concerns over safety. while coal, natural gas and air pollution kill many more people than nuclear power, nuclear energy does have the potential to be catastrophic. everyone remembers the disasters, three mile island,

chernobyl, fukushima. >> so what would have happened if your plant had been at fukushima? >> so my plant uses the liquid fuel rather than a solid fuel so if it lost electricity, if the operators had to leave the site, the liquid fuel would drain out into a take completely gravity fed based on the inherent physics and it would freeze solid in two or three hours so if it fails it fails in a solid state rather than a meltdown liquid state or gaseous state. >> the big problem with fukushima is it is in a liquid state and it produces radioactive water? >> yes, that was one of the biggest problems there. >> trans atomic power has $3.5 million of funding and the department of energy recently awarded its founders the first ever energy innovation award but dewan faces several obstacles. she'll need to convince companies that it's worth up ending the industry and investing in new technology, and perhaps the greatest hurdle, the regulators. she'll need the federal government's support and money. >> do you think looking at this whole world of advanced nuclear

reactor designs that american technology in this area needs the world? >> i think that for now the u.s. is still leading the world in nuclear technology, but one of my biggest concerns is that that won't always be the case. just to put some numbers on it, the u.s. right now has 100 operating commercial power reactors and five new ones under construction, and china has i believe 21 reactors operational, another 86 under construction or planned to be under construction soon and then another 150 plants proposed. >> is it realistic that, you know, between issues of not in my backyard and all those kinds of issues and regulatory issues, is it likely that you're going to be able to build this plant in the united states or is your best hope that your first plant will be built in china?

>> we're committed to building the first plant in the united states for a range of reasons. this is american technology. it was invented here 50 years ago and so we want the u.s. to gain the benefits of it first before we bring it somewhere else. >> dewan hopes to have a fully built environmentally friendly nuclear reactor within eight to ten years, and then she'll have to sell it, of course, but if she can make it happen in an industry that's impervious to change, the rewards could be great. she could help get rid of much of our nuclear waste and generate enough electricity to power the globe for the next 72 years. up next, a culture map that will explain to you how to deal with the various and different cultural types you're going to encounter as you live and work around the world these days. stay with us.

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>> announcer: "fareed zakaria in today's globalized economy you might be an american doing business in rwanda, a french woman making a deal with japan, or an argentine trying to woo a new customer in australia. you can do your business over the phone by skype or hop on a plane. that's the easy part. the tough part is figuring out how to conduct yourself in a different culture. is it americans who don't like criticism and germans who don't want you to mince words or is it the other way around and do you bow or not bow with your japanese counterparts. we have a professor with the

international business school, author of "the culture map." americans are fascinated by the world but what we really want to know, what do they think of us. in this map what are the traits that you think of and you live in france now so you have a good perspective, what are the traits that people think of as distinctively american when it comes to doing business and interacting? >> well, one thing that you brought up a moment ago was the tendency to give a lot of positive feedback. that might come off as being superficial or just confusing to people from other countries. so as you said, i've lived in france now for 15 years, and in france people are trained to give positive feedback a lot more incessantly and to give negative feedback a lot more bluntly than we do in the u.s. i worked with a french client a while ago who had moved to the u.s. she had a new american boss. her american boss called her into his office to tell her that her performance was unacceptable but he started by telling her in

the way we do in the u.s., the things he felt she was doing well, and then by the time he got to the real message, she wasn't even listening anymore. she left that meeting thinking, wow, this was the best feedback i've ever received. so leaders today need to be -- managers, all of us, need to be really aware of these cultural differences. >> and flip it around. so if an american goes to france or germany, they will tend to -- they'd give a presentation and the german might say, well, these are the four things i didn't like about what you -- he'd be right blunt and up front about the disagreement, right? >> it could be very surprising for an american, and when you're first getting used to it, it can be unsettling. >> and what do you think of as some of the other dominant characteristics that, you know, in other countries that people should be aware of? for example, if you're doing

business in china, what would be -- can a key chinese cultural, you know, trait -- >> well, one might be when should you speak and when should you be quiet. and that's a very simple thing that we learn in our own cultural environment when we're children. i had a team that i was working with recently where i had a group of americans and one chinese on the team. the americans were all jumping in talking on top of each other and the chinese person just sat quietly. afterwards i asked them how the meeting had gone. one of the americans had said, well, you know, this chinese guy, he doesn't have anything to contribute. he's really shy. and i spoke to the chinese and he said, well, i can't find an opportunity to speak in all of this chaos and jumping in. just knowing when to be quiet can help. >> a friend of mine who has a ceo of operations in india and china, i asked him, what's the big difference? he said, china it's very hard to get the managers to talk frankly and explicitly about what the problems they face are. i said, what's the problem in india? india, it's the opposite problem. i can't get them to shut up. >> exactly. >> now how would you? the map is itself quite complex. how would you explain to people,

what are the tools you need to navigate? obviously ideally everyone will be an expert in the culture of all of these places but that's going to be difficult. so what are the simple rules one can apply? >> one of the rules is that the way that you perceive another culture may be very different than the way that another culture perceives that culture. so if you're working in a global so if you are working in a global organization, you have to understand cultural relativity. i worked with a british and french team a while ago and asked the british at one point what's it like to work with the french and british said to me, the french are chaotic and always late and disorganized. later i had a group from india who joined the same team and asked the indians what's it like to work with the french and the indians said to me, you know the french. they're really rigid. they're really inadaptable. they are so focused on the structure and timeliness of things it's unsettling for them if you change things at the last

minute. >> so you have to understand that what you perceive about a culture might say more about you than the qualities of that culture. so in a sense the big piece of advice you're giving is the hardest which is know yourself. know how you perceive things and how that's a bias you need to try to overcome. >> putting yourself in someone else's shoes and being curious and humble, i would say are the three things that are most important when you're working internationally. now, i can't do much to help people be humble or curious. with the culture map, i hope to help people be able to put themselves in other people's shoes so they can see not just how do i view them, how do they view me? >> pleasure to have you on. >> thank you, fareed. >> the art of penmanship may be lost but one dead dictator's work has come back to life. i'll explain.

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or tablet from comcast. visit comcast.com/wireless to learn more the pope is visiting south korea this week in part to celebrate asian youth day. it brings me to my question of

the week. what's the most religiously diverse country on the planet according to the pew research center. is it, a, the united states, b, sinne india, c, france or d singapore. if you want to understand the strange dynamic of the modern middle east between brutal dictators on one hand and jihadist on the other end, you must understand this. in honor of what would have been hugo chavez's 60th birthday, his supporters remembered his life. and for some reason, his handwriting. a new font chavez pro was unveiled during birthday

celebration mimics his handwriting style. if you are shooting for the history books, may not get your face on a coin or dollar but you may get your handwriting on a type face. the secret service might have something to say about barack obama. easy access to the president's handwriting would invite forg y forgeries. it's a bit hard to read anyway. our neighbors to the north might enjoy steven harper. if you thought a font fit for a queen would be even neater. think again. queen elizabeth's handwriting is difficult. the correct answer was d, singapore. it scored the highest in the pew

research centers religious diversity index. the pope's home, vatican city, came in last place. the u.s. known as the great melting pot actually only has moderate religious diversity. it ranked 68thout of the 232 areas that were studied. that ranking falls behind france and muslim countries like bahrain. thank you for being part of high program this week. i'll see you next week. hello. i'm fredricka whitfield. these are stories topping our news this hour. we'll tell you what action the feds are taking in the michael brown case. and hear from the attorney of the store owner who police claim

was robbed by michael brown. plus, on the streets of ferguson, a second night of unrest. police crackdown on protesters after one demonstrator is shot overnight. >> i was disappointed in the actions of tonight. as many of you know, the crowds we've had for the last two nights. >> tear gas and smoke canisters are deployed to disperse a crowd. we'll go live to ferguson and the u.s. steps up its air campaign against isis militants in iraq. retaking a strategic dam without damaging it. failing could have catastrophic consequences. we start today in ferguson, missouri, where a rally is expected to start in just a few hours after another night of

protests. this time with bloodshed. police say a protester was shot early this morning and is now in critical condition. investigators don't know who shot him but there was a person in the street with a handgun. protesters stayed out this morning during the newly imposed curfew from midnight to 5:00 a.m. seven people were arrested. all of this as people still have many questions about the shooting death of michael brown. one autopsy has already been performed on michael brown and now in a major announcement from the department of justice, a federal medical examiner will conduct a second autopsy. let's go