tv The Sixties CNN August 18, 2014 6:00pm-7:01pm PDT
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called in the national guard. today we learned that the results of a private autopsy showing that michael brown was shot at least six times by officer darryl wilson at some distance. we heard a competing account of the incident. president obama also weighed in, let's listen. >> we have all seen images of protesters and law enforcement in the streets. it's clear that the vast majority of people are peacefully protesting. it's also clear that a small minority of individuals of not. while i understand the passions and the anger that arise over the death of michael brown, giving into that anger by looting or carrying guns and even attacking the police only serves to raise tensions and stir chaos. it undermines rather than advancing justice. >> the president going into a
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tense night, 24 hours of peace. a curfew has been implemented from midnight to 5:00 a.m. >> this is not to silence the people of ferguson or others, but to contain those who are drowning out the voice of the people with their actions. we will not allow a handful of looters to endanger the rest of this community. >> you are violating the state imposed curfew. >> those few looters disobeyed the curfew, as the chaos ensued, police were criticized for being too hands on and held back. >> we're asking the police for security, and we're not getting it. >> by sunday evening, things went from bad to worse.
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>> we were right in front of the command center, simply wanting to bend down to our knees and say to the police, our hands are up, don't shoot. and all of a sudden they turned around and started shooting tear gas. i did ten years in the military, i know what tear gas is when it's burning my face and my eyes, and that's what they were shooting us with. >> in downtown st. louis, a different scene as protesters took to the streets to offer their support, as his first images made their way around the internet. the governor called in the national guard to keep the police, a family friend provided the first account of wilson's events leading up to brown's death. >> so he goes in reverse, tries to get out of the car slammed the door shut violently. and as he stands up, michael bum
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rushes and shoves him in the back of his car. hunches in the face, and then michael grabs the gun. at one point he got the gun turned against his hip and the gun goes off. >> this account is accurate and it matches what officer wilson had told investigators. a second autopsy ordered by brown's family revealed he was shot at least six times, including twice in the head. showing no signs of struggle. it was another unsettled piece of news for an already restless piece of the country. periodically the police will come through you can try to get people moving along. still, more questions than
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answers as a town riddled with frustration and heartbreak hopes to find some peace in the coming night. >> don lemon joins me now. how did today, the mood here on the street differ from the last couple days? >> when i first got here, it was a bit more peaceful. they brought in ron johnson. people were embracing him. >> that made a difference initially? >> and then i went away to cover another story and came back. when i was gone for a day or so, all hell broke loose. i'm not sure, why, what happened. there was a tipping point, anderson where it devolved into violence. and all of the tactics that mr. johnson had used to try to get people off the streets and not to be violent. for some reason that just went haywire. he was marching with people, he would come out, people would embrace him. >> i kind of a deescalation? or the appearance of police
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officers in full tactical gear with gas masks on? with military equipment? >> he put it -- >> he put the ka bosh on that, but then had to bring it back, if you -- i was there listening to his press conference very late last night about midnight or 1:00 in the morning. he sounded so exhausted and just -- not as if he had given up, but he was flabbergasted and he was at his wits end and went through very carefully what had happened and explaining why he had to do what he did, and put the tactical officers back out on the streets. >> there was a press conference he had around 1:00 a.m. in the morning. we have 100, 200, maybe several hundred people moving down this avenue. we're about 5 blocks away. a couple blocks away is where the altercations have occurred? >> yes, when we got here, this mile or two stretch of road here, completely packed with not only cars but people marching, there were thousands of people
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out here at one point. but then they quelled that, and now as you see, they closed it off to traffic and people can't stand or they're not supposed to, so they're moving. >> there is no curfew tonight. the curfew has been lifted. they have made it clear you have to keep moving, anyone standing still for long periods of time congregating as a group is suggest to arrest. >> we didn't know that as part of the media. >> you almost got -- >> yeah, it was interesting, we heard people say we don't know what to do, the rules are changing. we had seen that from a distance. and then today we were -- we bore witness to it, we were in the situation room, about to do a live shot. they moves us here from the quick trip and then i'm in the middle of a live shot and this officer comes and starts to push me along with the other people. i didn't know what was going on, this is where you told us to be and now all of a sudden the rules have changed and you're moving us. >> there's a lot of frustration,
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both on the part of people here and police. i think would find this a difficult situation to try to get their arms around them. last night there were guns drawn. >> there were guns drawn on us by police officers, when we got here. it was sort of at the height before -- just before the curfew went into place. and my producer and i drove up and we went to a parking lot. the officer with the gun, with the flashlight on the end of it, said put your hands up, they said, we're media. after that, he moved us somewhere else. we heard gunshots, you kind of understand an officer's fear for their lives. it's a very tense situation. but listen. for the most part, you know, most of the people here are peaceful, they just want their voices to be heard. they want some validation, and to feel like they're not occupied. you. >> get that sense particularly during the day. they want people to hear their voice, and that's the bigger thing, don. thank you.
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>> appreciate your reporting. next we go to michael bodon and shawn parcels who joined us in the last hour. thank you for being with us. what are the headlines that you discovered. you say at least six shots, what does it tell us about what happened? >> we know for sure he was shot at least six times, as we pointed out in the press conference this morning, he had two shots to the head and he had four wounds to the arm. we have a wound that occurred to the right upper shoulder here, and we have a wound that occurred to the right side of the chest here, dr. bodon, i feel, those are most likely reentrance wounds. for example, the shot that entered above the eyebrow came out right here and most likely went back in. >> one of the shots in the arm was said to be back to front. what does that mean? >> well, during our autopsy
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examination, we found one of the gunshot wounds in this part of the arm, so anatomically speaking, we say that's the medial aspect. the arm is a movable part of your body. so the shot could have come from the front. if he's putting his hand up or if he's raising his hands like this, at the same time, when we put our arms down and we're walking along like this, as if he's walking away from an officer, the shot could have come from the back to the front. >> now, if one arm was raised, you can't say whether that means he had his arms up in an i'm giving up posture or don't shoot me or -- one of the accounts according to the friend of the police officer, was that hes with a charging the police officer. you can't say for sure whether an arm was raised in a running position or in a hands up position? >> correct. and that's a lot of the information that we're missing
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right now. >> and let's focus in on what you're missing, all that stuff is important, to be able to examine the police officer's vehicle. being able to examine the clothing. what else do you need to actually get a complete picture? >> to get a really good picture. we want to review the first autopsy which would be the report, the photos, the x-rays and the tox report. we also want to review all witness statements, the officer statement in particular. >> and none of that you were able to review? >> and clothing of the victim. >> the importance of the clothing is what, to get a sense of the distance of the gunshot? >> correct. if i -- and i are at a close range. if i shoot you at this range and you don't have your shirt on, you're going to get gun powder on your skin. with your shirt or other materials on, the shirt and those materials will filter that out, so when you look at it at the autopsy it looks like it came from a distance.
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>> do you have a sense of the order of the shots? >> we can't say for sure what the order was in. but we feel very confident that the two to the head were the last two shots to hit. >> that was his head -- it was in the top of the head? >> correct. >> it would have been down? >> correct. >> shawn, i appreciate you being with us. shawn parcel who conducted along with michael bodon in the private autopsy. coming up, other factors may speak to what happened. officer wilson and michael brown's fatal encounter, details on that ahead.
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welcome back to our continuing coverage here in ferguson, there are national guard troops streaming in all evening. really throughout the day, we have been seeing people coming, holding up signs. getting their voices out there. hopefully there will be calm throughout the night. people here received a lot of news today to react to, to respond to and including the autopsy of the emergence of a woman named josie. you heard a portion of it at the top of the hour, i want to play more of what she said on the radio, followed by a contrasting account of michael brown's friend. first, the woman going by the name josie, listen. >> he said that, you know, they
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were walking in the middle of the street. he pulled up, rolled his window down, said get out of the street. they refused to. there was some cussing involved. and then he just kept rolling up. i know he pulled up ahead of them. he was watching them. they give the description. he was looking at them. they have something in their hands. he goes in reverse back to them. he slammed the door, he tried to get out. michael bum rushes him, and shoves him back in the car. quickly grabbed for his gun. michael grabbed the gun. at one point he got the gun
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slowly turned toward his hip. and shoved it away, and the gun goes off. and michael takes off with his friends, they get to be about 35 feet away. and, you know protocol is to pursue, he stands up and yells. please, michael and the friend turn around. michael is taunting him, what are you going to do about it? you're not going to shoot me. and then he started to bum rush him, he started shooting, and he kept coming. so he really think hes he was on something. because he kept coming, it was unbelievable. he finally ended up. the final shot was in the forehead, and then he fell down in front of the officer. that's why the stories are going around, people saw the shot in his head. of course, ballistics will prove he wasn't shot in the back like
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the other people are saying. the quote/unquote witnesses. but that's his version of what happened. >> can i ask, how did you come by this information? is this something that you -- how did you come to know the details of it? >> it was with his significant other told me. it was before it was such a huge -- you know, it was sunday night before the riots, it was when they were still on faceb k facebook. i had no idea it would turn into this. >> normally we wouldn't play that account. her account squares with what officer wilson told investigators. that according to a source, cnn has told them about the investigation. johnson who was with michael brown when the shooting happened. >> when he fired his weapon, i moved seconds before he pulled the trigger. i saw the fire come out the
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barrel and i knew it was a gun. i looked at my friend big mike, and i saw he was struck in the chest, or the upper wreathen, i saw blood spattered down his side, the right area. at that time we both took off running, and i was able to hide myself behind the first vehicle that was up on the scene. and the officer then got out of his car, my friend big mike was still running, he ran past me and saw me in plain sight. he said to me, verbatim, that -- he said, keep running, bro, and he kept running. almost in an instant my body started rising, i saw the officer proceeding after my friend big mike was struck. he turned around with his hands up beginning to tell the officer that he was unarmed, and to tell him to stop shooting. at that time the officer was firing several more shots into my friend. and he hit the ground and died. >> now, that's one of several
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eyewitness accounts including that of a woman who saw it from outside her window. p.j. crenshaw is her name, i spoke with her in the last hour of the program. >> you say his arms were up, there's an account from this woman who called into the radio show, who claims the officer was saying michael brown was rushing the police officer, is that what you saw? >> no, at no time did i see him move toward the police officer. he may have taken one centimeter of a step forward before he was down. >> his hands were up -- >> they were slowly going up, he didn't have a chance to get all the way up there before he was struck. >> two narratives, two autopsies so far. several investigations, local, state and federal. all of it taking place with a pressure cooker boiling away. we're going to make sense of some of the facts we know so far. i'm joined by a panel, a forensic scientist, also, senior legal analyst, jeffrey toobin,
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and arriva martin. how do you reconcile the differences in the accounts? >> you can't. they are different versions of the same event. that's not all that uncommon. in fact, it's often common in fast moving events like this. what people need to do now is slow down and get all of the evidence together. mostly the forensic scientific evidence. not just the autopsies and there's several more to come. the ballistics evidence and the entrance and the clothing, where do the bullets come in, we will know a lot more from that evidence. and then we can decide -- or the investigators or a jury can decide which of the eyewitnesss are telling the truth. >> on that, i mean, we did hear
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six shots, at least six shots according to michael bodon. we don't know what the state autopsy has shown, and also the -- there will be a federal autopsy. in terms of questions we need to know, jeff has raised some of them. what else stands out to you. >> there are critical questions, like for example, how many shots -- how many rounds did the police officer actually fire, were there warning shots fired? did he miss hitting michael brown? we need to have a number of shell casings. there are only three bullets found in the body. where are the other bullets? have the police recovered those items? i agree with jeff completely, there's a lot of forensic evidence that needs to be put together. for example, if there was a battle for the gun is michael brown's dna on that gun together with the police officer? that is something that will stand out as a fact.
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and that will tell you about a struggle. that kind of information -- gunshot residue, not only is it important for distance determination between the muzzle of the gun and michael brown, but also was there gunshot residue throughout the vehicle, if the gun was fired inside the vehicle? the autopsy, autopsies are only a small part of the entire picture. eyewitness testimony unreliable. physical evidence totally reliable. but it's got do be reconstructed properly. we just don't know all the answers. >> danny sevallis. if the roles were reversed and michael brown had shot a police officer, he said the police -- raised the question whether the police would have released a lot more evidence than they already have. do you believe that the police have released as much as they can, given this is an ongoing investigation? or are they holding back?
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>> of course they haven't released everything they can, that's one of the main disputes, they released information in a piecemeal fashion that painted michael brown in a bad light. now, of course, we should also look at it that we didn't have anything and then we had some information. was there some calculation in how it was released, possibly. we're finally beginning to get the other side of the narrative, the officers account. but i have a confession anderson, i like many other people today, i fell into the vortex. she spoke in the presence tense. there's a narrative place right there, she was credible. i took a step back and said, wait a second, not only do i not know who josie is, she's not even an actual eyewitness, i think we need to reserve our judgment, and we can't consider these two narratives as equal between eyewitness and somebody who heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend. i think we will get the officers narrative, he's probably given what's called a garretty statement.
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that will leak out. it's only shielded so much. we will find out his narrative. but i think we should be careful to rush to accept josies narrative as an eyewitness, which she is not. >> that's certainly an important point, and there are a number of eyewitnesss who we have heard from. i want to get your take areeve rah, we have to take a quick break. protests continuing right behind me. it's really grown significantly, i should say, really in the last 30 minutes or so. several hundred people now marching through the streets, calling for justice for michael brown. calls which we have heard all throughout the day, this is certainly the largest crowd that we have seen thus far. i would estimate 400 or so people, maybe that many in this crowd right now, we will see how things develop. you'll see they're moving. police, there's not a curfew in effect. police are saying people are not allowed to standstill and protest, that they have to keep
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>> do you agree this will come down to forensics? as the tipping point of the investigation? >> i think as a matter of what's going to happen in the trial, absolutely. in terms of what it's going to take for justice to be served. i don't think forensic evidence is going to make a big difference. i feel the community feels as though michael was gunned down. i don't think there's going to be anything that's going to convince the community of ferguson that there was justification in the shooting. i know the importance of evidence in terms of a trial and the legal process, but it's not going to satisfy this community unless there is an arrest and conviction of this officer. >> well, i mean -- in terms of the use -- go ahead, i was going to say, evidence is how the judicial system works. i understand, and i can
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certainly -- i understand how angry people are. the legal system has to work according so the evidence. i trust people that they will respond. not that they are so emotional that they carry about the evidence. i don't think that's fair. >> can i respond to that? >> yes, but let me point out. i talked to a lot of people on the street, they say, they want transparency, they want justice, and many people here no doubt feel this officer is guilty and should be tried. but above all else, you hear, you know, they want information, and they want to make sure that the justice system works properly. >> absolutely, anderson. this community is looking for justice, i wasn't suggesting this community is so emotional they lack the intelligence to understand the criminal process of what happens in the courtroom. what this community also knows
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is that four african-american unarmed men were killed within one month. they know that disproportionately african-american men are killed in this country by police officers. the number of stops in the community of ferguson, the number of arrests are disproportionate toward african-american men. this isn't happening in a vacuum, this is a national issue that's impacting african-american men all over this country. what we're seeing being played out on the streets of ferguson, could be any communities where african-americans are disproportionately impacted by police brutality and excessive force. >> the federal government performed their autopsy today, that's going to be the last of three autopsies. do they have access? we know the private autopsy didn't have access to police reports to eyewitness reports, to all the information and the clothing that police have collected or even the police vehicle. will the federal government autopsy have access to all of that? >> i would think if they don't
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have it yet, they certainly will have it, they have one of the finest laboratories in the country. certainly they need to look at the forensic evidence to put this all together. we'll have some answers here. >> appreciate you being with us. here in ferguson as arriva mentioned, there's a long history of tensions between local law enforcement, the local police and community. they're sworn to serve and protect. those tensions we've seen have boiled over a number of times. susan carol looks at how we got to this point. >> reporter: tensions are running high in ferguson now, this isn't the first time the city has dealt with unrest. in 2009, the police department was also under scrutiny for the case of henry davis. it was another incident of alleged excessive force. >> we don't need -- they beat me
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for no reason. while i was handcuffed. >> his attorney listed as he recounted the story of what he says happened to him on a rainy night nearly five years ago. >> davis said police spotted him after he pulled over to wait out the weather, turns out his name matched the name of another henry davis who was wanted for outstanding tickets. davis says they told police they have the wrong man. >> the female police officer jumped on my back, when she handcuffed me -- >> davis ended up in hospital with cuts, bruises and concussion, he was charged with beating and driving while intoxicated. even property damage for bleeding on the officer's uniforms. all of those charges were later dropped. >> the officers committed perjury, for the property damage claim, but no officer faced any charges or disciplinary action. the case isn't over, davis'
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attorney has filed a civil site alleging his clients civil rights were violated. davis is appealing. >> it must be upsetting to you when you see cases like this, you try to make a difference to prevent things like what happened in the michael brown case. >> changes needed to be made. >> is that an acknowledgement that the officers did not act appropriately? >> not at all my focus was to make it the best police department i could last year more african-americans were pulled over, even though their numbers show more whites that year had higher rates of carrying contraband than drugs. >> if that's the perception out there, that's what we have to work on. >> is it more than perception? >> i don't think so.
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>> the michael brown case has only served to further strain relations between police and the african-american community. >> when a community loses faith. and the very people that it pays to protect them. it doesn't matter what the department does or attempts to do, whatever he does has no credibility. >> jason carroll joins me now. what's happening with that case. >> there's going to be a hearing about it this upcoming wednesday. he hopes because of everything that's happening out here, finally this young man is going to get the justice he deserves because of what's happening out here now. >> jason carroll, appreciate it. continue to follow that place as well. ron johnson grew up here, he's a father in the shooting of michael brown. we'll hear from him ahead.
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i want you to know my heart goes out to you, and i say that i'm sorry. i wear this uniform and i should say that i'm sorry. >> this is my neighborhood. you are my family, you are my friends. and i am you. i will stand and protect you, protect your right to protest. when this is over i'm going to go in my sun's room, my black s son, who wears his pants
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sagging. wears his hat cocked to the side, gotta toos on his arms, but that's my baby and we all out to be thanking the browns for michael. michael's going to be making it better for our sons so they can be better black men. so they can be better for our daughters, so they can be better black women. better for me, so i can be a better black father. and we know they're going to make our mamas even better than they are today. >> you're looking -- that's the memorial service on the right-hand side of your screen. this is a live shot of some of the protests which are current right now. several hundred people walking by the main street here in ferguson with their hands raised. saying hands up, don't shoot. a common refrain. joining us now is boyce watkins, also joining us.
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i appreciate both of you being with us. you look at the federal government having to intervene in ferguson, on a number of levels and you say this is something that's emblematic, it's been going on since slavery. what do you mean by that? >> we know the federal government realized after slavery ended in 1865 that the states and local jurisdictions might not, and there was a very heavy, possibility they would not protect the rights of black people. and that's why we had the civil rights act that began in 1868, 1871 and on. so the 1964 civil rights act, we're celebrating the 50th anniversary this year, was proceeded by a number of laws by the federal government to protect the rights of black people. intervention in these types of cases is not new. this is a long line. and it looks like it's going to continue to be a long line of cases in which the federal
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government must intervene. >> it's interesting. you predicted that white americans, black americans would see this situation very differently. we have a poll from pugh research that shows that very thing. when asked if the police response to the shooting had gone too far, whites were equally divided. police have gone too far in responding to the shooting's aftermath. i'm wondering your reaction to that. >> the poll doesn't surprise me at all. basically, racism is a disease that sinks into the very fabric, the foundation on which this country was founded. unfortunately we've allowed the disease to fester, we've dealt with racism the way the ferguson police department dealt with the shooting of mike brown, we don't talk about it, there's no transparency in terms of dealing with it, we pretend it didn't happen, it doesn't exist, it's not real. whenever you do a poll like that, the reality hits you in the face. you find that whites have one reality, blacks have another
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reality. you look at the way whites and blacks look at police, i can't say they are there to serve and protect them as well as individuals that are there to serve and protect the rich and the poor. so until we really deal with the issue, we're going to see the same poll over and over again. >> gloria, to professor watkins point, it is stunning the different experiences of many white americans versus many african-americans in this country. even in this day and age, in terms of attitudes toward the police, their experience with police officers on the streets. >> well, i remember the first time i saw my older brother, a person i revered, put down on the ground by a police officer, and told to lie there. it was devastating to me as a child. it was devastating to me for my little brother. there's a different line we walk as african-americans, even though we can have the degrees
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and teach at universities, we also know that our experience could change in a flash. it doesn't matter how much money one has, how much education, any one of us in a community of color can be michael brown. >> you know, also, i keep thinking of how we in the news organizations, we pay attention to this so often in the wake of an incident like this. and then move on to something else. i was thinking about that a lot today. how frustrating that is for many people, the sense that nothing will really change. the cameras will move on. and this will happen again a week from now, a day from now or a few hours from now. >> well, you know, think about it like this, since michael brown was shot and killed by police, there have been several other black men across the country who have been killed by police, this is a regular thing, a persistent problem, a black
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man is killed by police about once every day and a half or something like that, it's a real problem. it's almost like going into your house and seeing the roaches and you try to stomp them one at a time. you need to disinfect the entire house. our country is a place where we deal with these incidents one after the other after the other. we need to really dig into this, because guess what, there's going to be another michael brown in about a week. there's been several since he was killed. >> boyce watkins, always good to have you on. gloria marshall, thank you as well. coming up next, the national guard have assembled not too far good where i'm standing, we'll be back. yeah, i can fix that. (dad) i wanted a car that could handle anything. i fixed it! (dad) that's why i got a subaru legacy. (vo) symmetrical all-wheel drive plus 36 mpg.
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about ten humvees arriving here at the command central. i'm a little over a half mile from where you're standing right now. let's move in and take a closer look. this is what we're seeing. not exactly a high state of readiness for everybody here. they've taken up positions. they are creating check points. this is where the staging area is for the state police. their job according to the governor is to secure this area while state police are out dealing with the crowds. you can see this is the command center where all the state police come together, take care of their planning and then go back out to work with the crowds. now, over here, with the national guardsmen, it is hard to get a head count because there is so much milling about. you see groups of two, three, ten occasionally. they all have their sidearms. most of them have indications that they are mps, military
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police. at this point there doesn't seem to be much more of a job description for them other than to stay here and secure this location. but so much talk has gone into the militarization of this operation, these troops and their uniforms, their military equipment just plays right into that. and we have a helicopter going overhead. shining a spotlight down. some activity here. everyone waiting to see what's going to happen. >> let's hope it is a calm night. it has been not only emotional but financial. >> reporter: if race is one issue driving the protest in ferguson, socioeconomic disparity may be another one causing an eruption of pain and frustration. >> if the people with the money and the power and the influence don't patrol it, don't show any interest in it, it is going to continue. >> but now life has become even
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harder for some. following the ongoing destruction and looting. businesses are boarding up. >> you guys are closing up. >> we're going to board it up. >> until when? >> reporter: this beauty supply store was broken into and looted twice in one week. >> now i have to feed my family in a different way. >> reporter: even shops that haven't been damaged say business has taken a huge hit. one business owner tells us he's lost a thousand dollars a day, about 60% of his revenue since the unrest began. >> there's been rumors the property values will go down. >> reporter: one economic expert said the current business climate may be reminiscent of what happened with the l.a. riots in the early 1990s where some businesses never rebuilt and unemployment skyrocketed. >> especially when you have smaller owned businesses as
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opposed to the big walmarts and the big chain stores. as much as they might like to rebuild and as much as they might love their community, they're not going to be economically able to survive. and that's heart breaking for a lot of the residents. >> we still have children, we have families. we're hurt. we need everything in our community. >> reporter: the young mother who lives within eyesight of where michael brown was shot feel her community is spiraling out of control. >> i think it is going to be worser than this. >> you think it will get worse. >> i think it could get worse. >> reporter: huff worries about what the future holds for her family, especially her 3-year-old son gregory. >> you look at your kids, i don't want my child to go through this as they get old. you want it to be different. >> reporter: she wonders will her son be read the fairly as he grows up? will her town be able to overcome the destruction? will the community be able to bridge the socio and racial divide that appears wider and
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this two-hour edition of "ac360." our coverage continues here in ferguson over the next hour and all night long. cnn tonight starts right now with don lemon. good evening, everyone. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon live in ferguson, missouri. we'll begin with breaking news. protesters back out on the streets of ferguson demanding their voices be heard more than a week after 18-year-old michael brown was shot and kill by police officer darren wilson. and a friend of the officer is telling a radio station that wilson opened fire after brown rushed him at full speed. a source with detailed knowledge of this investigation is telling cnn, quote, this account is accurate. an independent autopsy requested by michael brown's family reveals he was shot at least six times. we'll look at w
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