stun grenades. >> that's right. in these next few seconds it will be midnight in ferguson, missouri. the images you're seeing now, though, are from earlier. there were peaceful demonstrations throughout the day. a number of clergy trying to serve as a buffer between protesters and the police. this was, as you see there, a small scuffle that was visible earlier but not representative of what was mostly seen throughout the day. u.s. president barack obama made a statement from the white house monday saying that really the community needs to build, not to tear down, need to listen, not to yell. we need to understand each other. that's how we bring justice and bring about peace. this incident has the attention of noft only everyone in the state but the entire country and indeed the world as it represents two things. the ability and the rights of people to protest and also the responsibility of the police to provide security. our don lemon is still there in

ferguson, missouri. i understand he can join us now an the line. moments ago we saw the police say it wasn't safe to be where you were. where are you now? >> errol, it's a little tough to hear you so bear with me. we are leaving to go to the command center. we've been ordered by police. i don't know if you guys [ inaudible ]. we have been told by [ inaudible ]. about a half mile don the road. >> okay, it's a bit difficult to understand what don is saying at this point. he might have a gas mask on or not. i believe what he's saying is that police have said the intersection where we were broadcasting from is unsafe and so now the media are being escorted to, i think he said the

command center which isn't too far away. we're watching this closely because not only does it have the attention of the u.s. president but speaks to a level of emotional sensitivity in the region that's been visible for the past nine days. locals feeling as if -- many african-americans in this community feeling they aren't represented an the police force. the incident that sparked all of this was the shooting of an unarmed teen michael brown. on that front, u.s. president barack obama said there's a grand jury, a federal grand jury seated and ready to see evidence in that case as early as wednesday. and so this will be a slow and legal process as it moves through to fig are out if darren wilson, the officer who shot michael brown, is deemed to have used excessive force or if we've heard -- if we're to believe what a woman who claims to be darren wilson's friend said to a local radio station that perhaps

michael brown lunged for the officer's gun and punched him in the face. two very differing accounts of what took place. none of us were there. we don't know. a grand jury will look into all of that. while that happens slowly, though, each and every day there in ferguson, missouri, residents want to voice their opinions, peacefully protest and demonstrate at the same time, the plis want to keep order. >> and the u.s. attorney general will be traveling to ferguson. that's on wednesday to meet with peaceful protesters there, fbi agents and other personnel there to sort of try to calm the situation. as you heard from errol, the u.s. president very much involved talking about violent protesters undermining justice here. and we are talking about a very small minority in the crowd throwing these molotov cocktails, shooting off guns to try to provoke the police.

but the problem here is a lot of people feeling there's an overreaching. the police are then taking the bait and this has been the problem on the streets there. of course, it's beyond ferguson. we are seeing in other cities around the united states people are marching on the streets. we found that ourselves as we were coming into work this evening. there were demonstrations at the front of cnn center. people are angry, and they are needing the opportunity to voice that anger, to get out and explain that they want to see justice served here. there are a lot of people, they want to siee darren wilson, the officer involved, arrested. but before that happens, we have to sort of see this play out in the courts. >> our producer steve kastenbaum is there in ferguson. he joins us now. bring us up to speed on how things have developed. >> there's been a dramatic shift here because they had reports of a shooting victim up in an area where we were situatedifieding

out live images earlier this evening. and then there was essentially two areas where there were confrontations between police and protesters. and we were situated up near very close to where michael brown had been shot. there were several dozen young protesters who were being defiant, ignoring police orders to clear the street. and they started vandalizing street signs. they were standing up in the face of police in riot gear and armored vehicles. they had pulled some street signs out of the ground because several of them are walking across streets holding a do not enter street sign, waving it at them. they also started throwing bottles at the police and that elevated the tension between the two groups. but things really changed dramatically when a molotov cocktail went flying through the air. we saw flames an the streets and then police moved in very quickly when one of the

protesters apparently tried to ignite a fire on a building. that's when the police started firing tear gas and smoke and using flash grenades up at one end of the main drag here through ferguson. that caused the protesters where we were situated to scatter. they went running down the side streets and then shortly after these groups of protesters that went scattering down side streets, we heard multiple shots being fired from their direction. police had not gone down after them yet. so the shots were something from the direction in which the protesters had run. everybody ducked for cover at that point, including ourselves. we continued to stay with the situation as long as we could. the police then broke off into tactical units. forces were brought in and they began searching presumably for gun mown because we did hear shots being fired from two

different side streets. again, these were side streets that protesters had run down after the police had fired smoke and tear gas. and now we're hearing from police that they have a shooting victim in that area that we were at. so they cleared out the media from where we had been situated. and we're now riding to the command post which is a significant distance away. they said it's a public safety issue at this point that they have a shooting victim back up where we had been reporting from live where photo journalist ken tillis was feeding back images as this was unfolding live. a very tense situation on what was otherwise an extremely peaceful night. when we first arrived on the scene here, we were struck by just how dramatically the situation had changed from one night to the next. earlier in the evening it was extremely orderly, peaceful.

hundreds of protesters were marching up and down the street peacefully, obeying the law. there was a very heavy police presence. no automobile traffic was allowed on the streets. people had to park their cars a significant distance away and walk in. and there were community activists sort of self-policing the crowd, and this all took a turn in a different direction when just a few individuals in this crowd in this orderly crowd, took it upon themselves to throw water bottles in the direction of police. plastic water bottles started flying through the air and occasionally you'd hear a glass bottle breaking as it hit the ground. what started as a peaceful, quiet, subdued protest took a turn in the wrong direction when several young people we saw them getting arrested after they threw the bottles. several young people threw bottles in the direction of police and that's when this all spiraled down into the direction that led to these

confrontations. >> all right. there you have it. steve kastenbaum, what he's seen happen there in ferguson, missouri, just this past hour. stay close as we continue to track this breaking news out of ferguson, missouri. cnn's jake tapper has been in the middle of all of this. he joins us now. jake, this has been certainly a long night. talk to us about what you are seeing there. of course, incredible show of force on the part of the police. >> that's right. the only thing i'd add to what steve had to say in his detailed and accurate report about the details of this evening is, i don't think that the show of force, that the police demonstrated towards the back half of the night, i don't think it helped matters at all. as the protests began earlier this night, protesters marched

roughly on the street for about a mile and then back again and a mile and back again and everything was relatively orderly. police were dispersed throughout the route. and everything seemed to be proceeding fairly well. community organizers, protesters and police talked about how they had figured out a way to guarantee that people could have their right to demonstrate. their right of lawful assembly while also the police could guarantee safety and security. there's obviously been a lot of looting and violence in addition to the peaceful protests. towards the back half of the night, the loop, the marching stopped. people started congregating around the area of the mcdonald's, which is the -- you may have heard or your listeners may have heard that's the mcdonald's where a couple of reporters were arrested for conspiracy to commit journalism, i suppose. state troopers, conti police,

ferguson police, highway patrol was so massive with semiautomatic rifles and batons and tear gas and at the ready, not fired, that it intimidated and irritated and provoked the crowd in no small way. there were sometimes the crowd was completely dispersed and very peaceful and this massive show of force, i think, exacerbated things. i don't really understand the strategy behind it. it made much more sense and things seem to be proceeding much better when the police were scattered throughout the route on the main thoroughfare. in any case, things really came to a head as steve mentioned at the other end of the street near the convenience store that had been burned down nine days ago after mike brown was killed. and i was down there as well as steve. and that's where the -- roughly

two dozen or so defiant young protesters were setting up barricadeses in the street and then somebody threw something at the police. and that's when tear gas started flying. >> and jake, as you are speaking with us, we are taking these live pictures from ksdk. of course, it's 12 minutes past midnight there. we're seeing a group of young men for the most part it appears on the ground there under arrest. and as you have been pointing out, all through the night, this is a small minority of problemmakers, isn't it? that these bad actors. and that's what a lot of the protest leaders have been saying. get the police out. this is a small group of people. let's get those people out of the crowds and let for the most part this peaceful protest go ahead. >> when you spray tear gas on a crowd, you aren't only spraying tear gas an the one person that provoked you or the one that threw molotov cocktails, you are

spraying tear gas on anybody in that square block and square acre vicinity which is what happened this evening. there are a lot of members of the media caught up. there was one photographer, one young independent photographer from albuquerque, leo york, who was really, really got whammed by the tear gas. he's okay now, i think, but, look. there are two -- there are three groups of people here in addition to the media and the police. there are the people who are legitimate criminals. the people who do the looting. a lot of them are not from ferguson. a lot of them are from surrounding areas or even from other states. there are the people who are provoking the police and they are a minority of the protesters. and then there is the vast majority of protesters, and they are peaceful. and they are being tarred by the first two, and they are being lumped in with the first two by

the police when it comes to firing rubber bullets, firing tear gas, and, you know, it's quite a scene. i'm used to covering scenes like this in ukraine or gaza or the west bank. i'm not used to covering them in missouri in the center of the country. and i think this is all provoked debates not just about civil rights in this country and whether or not black men are treated as if their lives are worth less than others in this country. it's also created a houge debat about how militarized our forces have become especially post-9/11. >> this is the shock for viewers across the united states but not only here. across the globe. i mean, we're being seen and being watched by people globely right now. talk to us about what police are saying to you. why they are using this

strategy. why the use of tear gas, stun grenades. why not perhaps use water cannon. at least it's not going to have the same sort of effect or maybe something that targets this small group. this blanket cover of everybody involved, everyone struck by the tear gas. what is the justification? what are police saying to you? >> well, they -- there clearly is, according to a community leader with whom i spoke earlier tonight, there's an effort to target the bad apples, the bad actors more and go after them individually. and there were points this evening when people were mouthing off to police and all of a sudden, the police would swoop in and grab them and arrest. and he screened and was hesitant to use the word improved, but he did say there was clearly more of an effort to go after individuals. but that said, i can't really speak as to the strategy of the

techniques that they are using for crowd control. there's another larger debate about whether or not these protesters who were -- they've been talked about the ones who were bad apples. what would they be doing if the police were not there in full force? would they be vandalizing? would they be doing something else or would they just be drinking and having fun? i don't know. clearly the standoff, the two forces, they ate off each other's energy to a degree. there was clearly a standoff going on, and i don't know the one could exist without the other. >> jake tapper, many thanks to you for bringing us up to date an that situation. we're watching the arrests of these young men for the most part taken into police custody there. we will see what happens at this point. but we heard from jake very much this small minority, bad apples in the crowd. >> we've seen that during the

past week in general. and we've got jake tapper and our other correspondents all over ferguson, missouri. let's bring in our don lemon. you were trying to broadcast live when you says the area you were in wasn't safe. is it the appropriate use of force by police? this is something captain johnson has been sensitive to make sure the force is appropriate. considering there were -- there was looting yesterday, some stores were vandalized and apparently a shooting there tonight, how do you gauge the police response in trying to be more measured with their removal of people from the street? >> having been on the scene today, errol, as we were broadcasting live for "the situation room" and we were in the spot where police told us where we should be, and they came around the corner and said, you know, they were pushing people back and told us we should move, and i tried to tell them this is our designated area. this is where you told us to be. so i definitely -- i understand

what many of the protesters are saying that the rules change. and so when the rules change, you are all of a sudden caught in the middle of something that you had no idea that you might be caught in. and so if you -- if you are told you need to drive an the right side of the street and you are driving on the right side of the street and the officer says, hey, what are you doing? i need you to drive on the left side of the street. immediately you are breaking the law. so on television, i -- i'm not saying that i came close to being arrested, but i definitely got shoved around by members of the police department. but the story is not about journalists get shoved around. that's what we get paid to do, come into a situation and tell a story. what's important to me is that i'm in a position of power. someone who works for a major media corporation. i have a camera and a microphone there. i am broadcasting live. imagine if i did not have that power and that luxury how i might be treated or how someone

in that community might be treated. now listen, that's not to say that anyone is condoning any bad actors or bad characters. but there are degrees. and there is an appropriate use of force. and i think for much of the evening, the presence -- and i keep want to say military presence because that's what it looked like. the presence of police officers in the military-like structure really outnumbered the protesters. and there were some people who were in there, obviously, who were acting badly and were making bad choices. and someone got, according to police, there was a shooting. as we were there, we were told someone was shot. i put on my flak jacket because i -- bullets don't have gps, right? so i -- it's really a tough position to be there to see. i do see what the police are up

against in some ways. but i do understand what the citizens are going through as well. and i think people here are just fed up. >> don, i'm wondering if you saw anything different tonight that we haven't witnessed over the past nine days. one example being, you know, human rights activist i spoke with yesterday said what needs to be done is something similarly done during the civil rights era where local leaders would be on the side of police trying to keep the peace and allow the protests to be peaceful. i saw malik shabaz out there. did you see people out there trying to defuse the situation and make sure the police weren't provoking protesters and vice versa? >> i did. i saw members of the clergy. i saw some community activists and community leaders trying to do that. and but i didn't see enough. i think there needed to be more representatives. and here is the interesting thing. i think there needs to be more

representatives, obviously, of color, but then also we need to see people, more diverse people with the people there. many people are at home and they haven't visited the scene. the governor has been criticized for not visiting the scene. this is what's interesting. we are -- we have been told to come to a certain location, correct? and as we're trying to get to that location, we are noting b allowed in. there are members of the police force who are checking i.d., who are telli ining people to turn around. so it's an odd sort of thing that we were set up in some way to go to a certain place where all of a sudden we cannot go. >> so, don, it sounds like you're speaking with some people there. it's errol here at cnn center. update us on where you are exactly. >> we are trying to get to a

place that is not even a half a mile don the road, but they aren't allowing us to go that way so we had to go through some back roads into neighborhoods and then back on in the interstate. we're watching -- being diverted to get to a place that is no more than half a mile down the road. i don't understand the strategy or logic behind it. i don't know if it's members of the police brass going, okay, this is not looking good. we need to get the media out of there. i'm not sure what the strategy is like. >> and also, don -- >> let me finish my thought real quick. you know how when someone says something is not sitting right. if something doesn't smell right. something is very odd about this. i'm sorry. go ahead. >> don, it's errol here. i'm just noting what you're describing is similar to what other protesters said earlier in

the week. even when they were leaving the street and simply wanted to get home, they couldn't because of the streets being locked down by police. how would you rate captain ron johnson's approach since he took over security for the area thursday? he's been on the side of the community. he's attended church services. we saw him out there with police tonight. how do you rate his performance? >> well, in the beginning it was stellar. everyone was really happy to have him on board. it was someone who related to the community. lived in the community. from the community. had dealt with discrimination from police officers and had been profiled. and members of his family. he had the whole story. but then to be quite honest, i went away to shoot something in louisiana for a day and started hearings reports on the news and it just devolved into chaos.

i'm not sure what happened in a day that changed things. he said he didn't want the members of the police force out in tactical gear. didn't want them brandishing their weapons at anyone. that worked for a short time and then it didn't. and last night, as we were on the air, errol, you remember the press conference where he ju just -- and he talked about what precipitated the event and he said if anyone is saying that police officers, you know, provoked this, they are absolutely wrong because all of the chaos started in his estimation, two hours before the curfew and before the major presence. you remember that press conference from last night. >> yeah, ron johnson essentially began the press conference by saying the police did a fine job. they acted appropriately. after he detailed the shootings, the lootings of businesses there, also important to note many of these businesses haven't

been open while all of this has unfolded. they are losing money from that. and he, captain johnson, said this is about making the area safe for everyone. residents, business owners and the like. don lemon on the line with us from ferguson, missouri. our jake tapper also standing by over the phone so we can get a sense of what's happening from block to block. jake, bring us up to speed on what you are seeing there almost half an hour after midnight now. >> don and i are both trying to make our way to the command center. i think we're stuck in a lot of the same traffic with this very, you know, police having cordoned off neighborhoods and blocks and really restricting freedom of movement. whether that's because of the shooting that was reported or not, i don't know. i do not know if the shooting was related at all to the protests. keep in mind that ferguson and the apartments where mike brown was shot nine days ago, almost

ten days ago, is an area where it's not uncommon, according to residents, to hear gunshots every now and then. there obviously is some gang activity and the like. i'm noture? it's related. we touched on one thing that don was talking about in your question about how much captain ron johnson had a role in changing things. thursday night after he had been appointed by the governor and the missouri state highway patrol, which is basically the state police, not just in charge of highways, were put in charge, things did go well. it was chaotic on the scene but nonviolent and the protests were boisterous but relatively peaceful. a lot of things changed on friday. one of them was they released the name of the officer. darren wilson. another was that the police released the closed circuit television video of someone who was spoised to be, and the family says probably is mike

brown stealing some cigars from a local convenience store which he did minutes before he was shot. and then there are also just a lot of mixed messages given by the ferguson police saying that, well, officer wilson didn't know that and then the chief of police took it back and said he did know it when he stopped mike brown or came to realize it during the stop. one of the things that i can't speak to having heard community members voice concern with it, but a great writer with "the new yorker" wrote that he thought that after captain johnson made it clear that he did not approve of the release of that videotape of mike brown strong arm stealing cigars, and it was clear that captain johnson didn't get a say in the release

of that video, that part of his credibility as the leader, as the individual who was brought in -- the new sheriff in town to bring peace and be the bridge between the police and the community. that was undermined. i understand why he'd say that because it did seem that how could -- it did seem that johnson, if he didn't have a say in the decision to release the video, then he wasn't even consulted, then you wonder what kind of leadership he was actually given as opposed to making it seem as though this charming african-american patrolman was suddenly in charge. and then you have today's move with the governor calling in the national guard, which is another vote of no confidence in the law enforcement presence on the ground. fur first you have the ferguson

police and st. louis county police voting no confidence and bringing in the state police. and then a vote of no confidence in the state police by bringing in the national guard. you really just do wonder who is running the show because this situation has not been any better. >> and this seems to be the problem, jake. authorities there are not speaking with one voice and presumably protesters, or some of these troblmakers, are taking full advantage of that. >> well, malik shabazz said there are outside agents, outside provocateurs who are trying to provoke the police into attacking the crowds. i wouldn't know anything about that, whether there are purposefully trying to do that or they are justice angry young people or angry other people in the crowd. most of the people are trying to peacefully protest because they

are frustrated at what they perceive to be a system that is cast against them. it's just the fix is in, and they just -- they view african-american life as, in this nation, not perceived -- especially the lives of young black men as having the same as any other american. those are their feelings, and they feel that mike brown was killed unjustly and that the police will just sweep it rnd the rug. those are their feelings. i'm not saying they are right or wrong but those are -- that's what -- that's the emotion they have. and they want to protest. most of them want to do so peacefully. and it is really hard to come to any conclusion other than the fact that the police response has, in general, only made it worse. and i'm not saying that looting

shouldn't be taken seriously or that people who throw a molotov cocktail at police shouldn't be arrested. obviously, they should. but i've seen too many innocent people impacted affected with scars because of the police reaction to -- >> jake, i want to jump in and explain to our viewers what we're witnessing now. we've got two video streams from ferguson. on the right we're seeing what appear to be national guard troops. i'm saying that because we're looking at humvees that have just driven out of the picture. the camera now panning around. on the left, a shot of this street where protesters and police have been clashing for the past few days. police there seem to be holding their position while in the foregrond of that shot, there are still a number of people. they've got bandannas around their mouths, possibly to protect themselves from the tear gas. they are still an the street.

where are you in relation to maybe where some of those people are left on the street and are you seeing police presence defuse now or move in any way? >> i am about a half mile, a mile down the street at the police command center, which is bu bustling with activity. this is where the national guard presence really is. i'm not seeing the images you are seeing. i'm in a parking lot of a strip mall where it's set up as if there's an alien invasion. and by alien i'm talking about from outer space. so i'm not seeing what you're talking about. >> to jump back to your earlier point about who is in charge with discussing captain ron johnson's ability to change the tone, we did see him out there in the middle of all of this today. >> absolutely. he was there. i'm not saying he has nothing to do with what's going on. he was there and when there was

this, you know, full -- think brigade of army infantry troops, you know, lined up with semiautomatics and teargas guns and shotguns and the batons and shields. he was there. he was leading the troops. so in any case, i'm not saying he's not playing a role. i just think what people -- i don't know that he's in charge of anything. i mean, look. you don't appoint somebody -- you don't put somebody in charge of security on a thursday and then on monday have another police agency take charge. obviously, either it wasn't

working or he never really was in charge to begin with. >> jake tapper an the line with us. also don lemon on the line because they were not permitted to broadcast from the intersection where protesters and police clashed in ferguson, missouri, just this past hour. it's now 12:30 in the morning there as we continue to track this breaking news story. >> we have seen some arrests there. we've been watching that play out on the screen as we've been talking to jake tapper and don lemon. the arrest of some of these young men, these small groups. small minority most people are reporting from the area causing the problems. we'll take a very short break and have more on this when we return. woman: jimmy, all of these travel sites seem the same. captain obvious: tell your grandmother with the hotels.com loyalty program, she'll earn free nights. so they're not the same, because they're different. woman: jimmy's not my grandson, captain obvious.

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>> you are back with us as we cover this breaking news from ferguson. we want to go to our don lemon and jake tapper. they are both there at the command center in ferguson. don, take it from there. talk to us about what the situation is on the streets right now. >> come on, jake. get in here with me. jake and i have been sent on a wild goose chase for not even a quarter mile don the road. we had to go back through neighborhoods and around interstates and we had to get our i.d. checked by the national guard as we came in. >> we obviously heard this evening that shots were fired on -- i think on canfield street where mike bron was killed. it's also a street where it's not unheard of for there to be gunshots. there is gang activity that takes place there. as has always been the case with this scene and these police, it's unclear what are they doing

in the names of legitimate safety and security concerns and what are they doing for some inexplicable reasons that have to do with show of force or overreaction. >> i just think that this was probably a concern because, look, there are still folks out there not in the exact scenes where -- the exact place we were but they are still broadcasting as we look at those pictures there. i think there may have been some concern about optics here. because every news organization was probably live. only concerned about the news organization but i imagine other news organizations were live out there. but all i kept thinking as you and i were on the air today and i got sort of pushed around by police and what just happened tonight, can you imagine if you lived in this neighborhood day after day after day, what the build-up and the frustration? >> and though this is more than what they are used to in this neighborhood, the general theme

that the people in this neighborhood say, especially the young black men is this is what happened to us all the time in st. louis. not necessarily to the level of tear gassing and the like and rubber bullets, but the sense of show of force by police. overreaction by police. generalizing, you know, you have a crowd of 1,000 and three or four are bad actors, and punishing the entire crowd. >> but it's interesting because you have world cup celebrations. they get out of control. someone wins a hockey championship. that gets ot of control. you really don't see that much presence for situations like this. this is extraordinary in a sense. i heard you talking to rosemary and errol about what you thought was just flat out racism when it comes to dealing with especially young black men from police in the st. louis area. >> i mean, that's the predominant feeling that people

in this community have. you've been here, too, talking to them. >> and i've lived it in st. louis but not to the degree. because i lived here for a while. >> you did? >> i worked at ktvi for a couple years here. i know the racial divide in the st. louis area. i used to be a young black man. i'm an older black male now. >> you still look young. >> i've dealt with that. you get out of the car, put your hands on the side and put your keys on the top and say, where did you get this car? when i was younger, my parents or i worked for it. >> there's been a lot of talk and it's not new for a lot of people across the country but new for me to hear about black motheritis. if you are a black mother and have a black son you worry about

him being a target for unfair treatment by law enforcement and you train them to submit. so that they don't get killed. >> the interesting thing is that i am a man in my -- of a certain age. my mother does not go to bed unless she hears from me either by text or phone because she is concerned about not only police officers, but just, you know, living in certain areas and being a target. and so even to this day, i have black motheritis. >> it's -- >> and i should have grandkids by now. >> you aren't that old. i met an african-american mom last week when i was here thursday. and she was with her son. and her son was 18 or 19. he was wearing a bandana, one of the protesters -- >> they use it for gas but that's really for anonymous. >> they don't want anyone to know who they are. but his mom was right there

keeping an eye. and she said, i have -- oh, i have not -- she said i have not let him out of my sight since mike brown. the guy looked like he could take care of himself. 18, 19 years old. she said i have not let him out of my sight. >> that's black motheritis. >> let's talk to ron johnson head of the missouri highway patrol. captain johnson, what happened? we were kicked out. there was obviously some activity that happened. we were, as we felt, sent on a wild goose chase. we had to go to colorado to get, you know, a quarter of a mile down the road, not even. what's going on? >> well, we had the protesters became -- some of them. this group that's bent on causing chaos. got into the crowd of people, protesters and actually began to stop at an area we designated for the media.

the crowds became large and agitated. and then several of the group began to get media attention and start -- an agitated type response to protesting. and then when we got near the crowd and asked them to move, they began to throw bottles, frozen water bottles at officers. >> it's jake tapper here. it seemed as though things were proceeding relatively smoothly earlier in the night when the police were dispersed all throughout the course where people were protesting. and then i know the protest stopped. people started milling around. they weren't supposed to mill around. i wonder if you think at all

that show of force by police and state troopers and national guardsmen with semiautomatic rifles and shotguns and batons and shields, whether that was necessary or whether that exacerbated the situation? >> no, because what happened is when the crowd began to walk past the designated area that we had for protesters, they began to walk past that. which was -- it happened yesterday. they began to walk past that and then turned back. then when the large group of protesters got up to our area, they became agitated. they began to jump. we had a gentleman who walked through our crowd and actually threw an explosive device down on the ground. and then these bottles came out of the crowd. until the bottles start coming out, once we saw the bottles

start coming out and that's what happened yesterday. then we had to then -- we had subjects who were actually beginning to make the smoke bombs as of yesterday. we also had a gentleman in the crowd that had a weapon. we did find out he was a part of security for a news team. and so all those things began to prompt us to take those actions. our problem here is that it becomes a balance on how long do we wait, and if we wait too long and then that crowd or that group starts an activity and then we do not have an opportunity to address that issue. so it becomes a balance. and yesterday, as you know, the crowd began to grow. and we waited and we waited. we waited long enough to allow that group to get beyond a point

that we could respond to. before we knew it, they were all the way up to our command post. so we did that last night. i had the officers wait. and what happens is a group started at 50 and they insert another 50 at another vantage point and now you have a large group that is upon you before you can react to it. that's what happened last night. i can tell you that was not a part of our plan. but as you can see, when you have that many gathered there and you only have a few officers, there is that opportunity to overrun those officers. they began jumping and screaming. we have found some bags and backpacks in the area as they began to disperse and run away that had squirt bottles with some kind of solution that we're trying to analyze what it is at

this point. so it's -- we've got to come up with something. >> yeah, captain, let me jump in there. we're waiting on a briefing to happen. are you part of that briefing that's going to happen shortly? >> i will be. actually, i was trying to find you because i'm here. i just don't know where your tent is. >> if you come over to where it says emergency vehicles only, we're an the opposite side of where it says -- you know the rainbow? we're on the opposite side of this rainbow. what is this business where you did your presser last night? we are there. >> right near the tank. >> it's a humvee, right? >> yeah. >> if you could walk over here. what is this business where the officers are? it's right near the command post where i met you the first night. we're not far from there. >> you are by a business? >> china king. >> we're by china king.

>> go towards china king. >> live tv, folks. >> we're live. >> what happened to that nonviolent approach that you had that seemed to work at least for a couple of days? what went wrong or did something go wrong? >> i think we still -- well, i know that we still have that approach. we truly do. and for the most part it worked. and it has worked. and peace profl teful protestere to call and appreciate that. i went to many citizens in that group. but tonight we had gunfire that occurred. officers were taking shots right at the vehicles tonight. but for that group, they have decided that we're not going to be a part of. we're not going to be a part of that peaceful protest -- >> all right. he's walking up now. come on up. you can drop the phone and come on up.

he just walked up now. stand over here justi a little bit. there you go. so if you are just tuning in here, don lemon, jake tapper speaking to ron johnson who is head of the missouri highway patrol about what went on. jake, you have a question? >> like seeing that huge militarized presence, i understand you need to keep the peace. and i understand there some are bad actors. and i understand there are some abject criminals out there especially with the looting. but people in the community complained that that massive show of force that looks like the 101st airborne has just come in and is occupying ferguson that that might cause more problems than it solves. show of force all in one place like that. i'm not saying there shouldn't be a law enforcement presence or even that big of one stretched throughout. but can you see why anybody would feel like -- >> they are under occupation?

>> that's honestly the reaction we got from a lot of members. we're not the enemy. why are they here like this? >> i agree. our peaceful protesters are not the enemy. they're not. tonight, we closed a roadway. we allow those that come in peace to walk the roadway. we allow that. but also you saw tonight that that didn't occur down there. that that element that's been on causing havoc got within that peaceful protest. we've had two subjects stl s the received gunshots that are out here protesting against us. after they received gunshots, they are asking for our help. we have two we've transported to the hospital. >> tonight? >> yes. >> who were they shot by? >> somewhere within the crowd. not by law enforcement. they were shot within the group of protesters. >> we want to get your face on television. if you can back up just a little bit and we can move forward. thank you very much. >> so they were shot within the protest side, within the

boundaries of west florissant. we were out there last night and glass bottles began to get thrown. water bottles began to get thrown. we have to protect the officers out here. we have to. tonight we can't send officers in squad cars to areas where they are shooting bullets. we have to take them in armored vehicles that can have a chance to stop those vehicles. we have to send officers that have stronger vests to stop bullets. and some of the media were out there. you guys may not have been out there. there were some media down there when you talk between yourself that were out there where the gunshots were being fired. >> you are talking about near the burned out convenience store? >> yes. >> can i ask you something? i met you the first night. everyone was so happy that you were -- that you had -- were taking over and they were hugging you and what have you. i heard you last night. i'm listening to you. last night you sounded defeated. tonight you don't have that same

thing in your voice that you had when i first met you. what's bugging you? what's the issue because something is on your mind. something is going on. >> what's on my mind is this has to stop. it has to stop. i don't want anybody to get hurt. i don't want an officer to get hurt. i doin't want a citizen to get hurt. we have to find a way to stop it. our citizens are calling us out. my phone, i'm getting texts, people are calling. people in the streets are saying you've got -- it's got to stop. it's got to stop. and we have to because these people that have been on this aren't going to stop just by saying we're not going to be out there. if we say we're going to go away, that's not going to stop it. if we all go away, they'll be in this mall. and they are going to destroy this mall. so when we talk about a military action, that's not what that is. but the people, the peace proflivitiers that decided, yes, this is what we want.

we want to be able to have our protests and they got that thursday. and they went home. and that other group was, well, wait a minute. he's come in and changed your mind. we can't let him win. we can't let that philosophy win. and now we're going to combat that by doing what we do. and one thing i'm going to ask is that the people that come in peace, that may be at 4:00 you decide i'm going to go home. i'm going to go home. all of us that come in peace, let us go home at 4:00. and then all of these guys that are saying we've done nothing, we've been peaceful, then let's see how they act. and i invite you, you talk about this military presence, we're doing too much. i invite you to hang with me tomorrow. >> i think either one of us would take you up on that officer. >> hang with me tomorrow and see what i see. we're not going to have any other news station.

you guys hang with me. >> fine. that sounds good. i was down at the end near the burnt out convenience store and saw what was going on. roughly two dozen or so young protesters defiant. they were putting up a barricade in the road. they were -- i don't know if they vandalized the street signs foret or if the streets were already vandalized. one person held up a do not enter sign. people started throwing things and then the police started firing tear gas, other things. do you think that that is the appropriate response to someone firing -- someone throwing -- i'm not saying it isn't, but is that what the appropriate response is if somebody throws a molotov cocktail or a bottle that police? is tear gas what is supposed to happen? >> well, i think what happens is that we had subjects down there that were hiding behind bushes. that were hiding behind bushes. officers can't walk toward that.

so now you throw a rock or you throw a bottle and bait me into coming in the darkness behind a bush and now you fire a weapon. i would caution anyone that says i'm willing to walk in the darkness toward a bush and risk my life for that. we can't do that. you know, one thing that you saw was we did deploy smoke. which has been a change. smoke. tear gas is just smoke to get individuals to leave. >> there was tear gas because we got tear gassed. >> no there was. there was. my eyes were burning, too. but i'm saying we've started off -- we start off way down here. and you saw tonight that i walked out there. i walked out there. it was calm. it was moving really good. and i walked out there and asked for peace. and my wife called me and said

you promised me you were going to wear your vest. and i told her it wasn't time. it wasn't time. but when i did walk, i wanted to do everything i can for this to be peaceful. i wanted to do everything i can. i can probably tell you right now i've got a number of guys that are probably going to have serious conversation with me that i walked out in the middle of that and could have been injured and probably put -- probably put a little more pressure on them. >> what are you going to talk about in this briefing? have we essentially had the briefing now live here on cnn? >> no, you're not. and i'm hoping when i'm done with that briefing the press and i are still friends because i've probably got some things i want to talk to the press about that are concerning to me. >> things the press did that you're not happy about? >> yes. >> what did we do? >> i'm going to have to wait until i get over there.

>> the people who are provoking the police, are they from ferguson? are they outside agitators as malik shabazz suggests? are they both? >> they are all the above. they are all of the above. and they really are. and this is what they are intending to do. it would be nice if the s.w.a.t. teams didn't have to come out. it would be perfect if no gas had to be deployed, no smoke had to be deployed. but i can tell you, if we sit up -- if we sit back and do nothing and you have definitely seen my approach, but you've definitely heard those stores that say how can you stand there and watch them destroy my livelihood. >> sure. absolutely. we spoke to business owners today who said that they were losing money, i mean, hand over fist because even though lunchtime crowds wouldn't come, people wouldn't come because -- well, some of them were close bud they were afraid of what might happen. >> businesses are down 50% in

ferguson. we did a piece an my show today about the victimized store owners. one of the questions is, are the police getting the right people? are they hitting the right people as opposed to hitting peace proful protesters? >> i know the people we arrested tonight weren't being peaceful. they weren't being peaceful. we hadgentleman who wouldn't move. he threatened, if you arrest me i'm going to pull something out you're not going to like. so that gentleman had the all to do that. they aren't being peaceful. remember the night when all the looting went on. >> which night? there were a lot of them. >> friday night. >> friday night, okay. >> this past friday night after you took over? >> yes. and when they went into the liquor store and back into the meat store and why didn't shoot any tear gas. we had officers line up. we didn't have any big trucks out there. and you saw what they did. and we just stayed there.

and we just stayed there. and the next day, the store owners that you were interviewing said how did they just stand there and watch us? how did they stand there and just do that? and so can we have it both ways? no. is this what i want? but we stood there. we stood there and watched it. and i can tell you there were officers standing in that line who looked at me and said how can you make us stand there? and allow those businesses to be destroyed? and to this day, now when i see those officers, they walk by me. and i guarantee there's some citizens who feel that same way. and i understand. >> captain, thank you. we have to run. >> we have to go. but we're going to see you tomorrow, right? >> we'll see you tomorrow. but we'll see you at the press conference. i hope you're not mad at us. >> no, i'm not. >> we stayed in our staging area. well, except for him. he was out roaming the streets.

>> i want you guys to hang out with me and see what i see. >> thank you, captain. >> thank you, sir. >> thank you. >> thanks, officer. >> captain ron johnson, the head of the missouri highway patrol and also -- >> the guy takes our questions every day. >> absolutely. >> we're gearing up for a press conference. sorry to hijack your show. but we're out here where it's all happening. so rosemary and errol, we're going to toss it back to you. >> perfectly understandable, don. you've got a date with captain johnson tomorrow. we'll certainly be staying tuned for that. we'll stay a take a quick break on cnn and have more after this.