beginning of this michael brown saga. another night sabotaged by violence and forced police response. last night was a different situation. but, the result, the same. people dispursed. people came out. stun grenades. last night, gunfire. this is is going to prompt another cycle of talk of how to make it get better here. we were in the middle of the reporting here last night we'll take you through the morning. >> it comes as more details start to emerge about the investigation including the officer's side of the story. we're going to break down what we know. the different perspective he offered investigators. let's get back to missouri and chris. chris? >> literally, kate, you have the world watch, basically a half mile stretch of road here in this suburb of st. louis, missouri. last night it was another ugly scene. it started off the right away. you had community leaders, you had protests, you had a message

coming. again, it overheated. over the course of the few hours despite the best efforts of the community, state police, and with help of the national guard 31 arrested and two shot. it did not involve police. police had to fire tear gas and stun grenades to disperse the crowd after they say they were being targeted with rocks, bottles, and even molotov cocktails. george was reporting from the beginning. he was there last night. george, what do we know? >> so, chris, the other night they tried something different. they lifted the curfew to allow for peaceful protest. what is a peaceful protest. means some people yell in police, get in the face of police. nothing violent. protests are fine as long as they're peaceful. look, police are trying different tactics. they tried a different tactic last night but got the same result. peaceful protests undermined by a few people that wanted to cause problems.

chaos on the streets of ferguson yet again. in what was one of the most tense nights yet, police say some protesters provoked violence throwing molotov cocktails, starting at least two fires, even firing upon police. >> i listened on the radio and heard the screams of the officers who were under gunfire. i went back to our squad vehicle and saw the gentleman laying in the back who had been shot. officers responded with stun grenades and tear gas. two people shot, civilians shot by civilians, police say. both expected to survive. cnn cameras caught one protester appearing to ignite a building. flames filling up inside. it was a small number of agitated the violence and their response. >> were thrown from the middle and the back of a large crowd. these criminal acts came from a

tiny minority of lawbreakers. >> our own crews forced to take precaution. >> listen, there's tear gas in the air here, and our crew is being overcome. >> ferguson res kepts coming to the aid of the freelance photographer overcome by the smoke. the night started peacefully and remained that way until around 11:00 p.m. local. even in the face of heavy police presence. >> now why they're doing this i don't know. because there is no threat going on here. none. but the peaceful protesters unable to stop a small number of troublemakers. community leaders forming a human chain walking hand and hand to block out the agitators. it's to my understanding that someone threw a water bottle and it ignited the police. they started acting like we were regular -- at the end of this we're going to be classed as

insurgents. nobody is out here for war. >> that's the frustrating part. honestly. you have people who really want to come out and voice their anger and their concerns. they want answers in the case, and again, we're also waiting to hear more from police. there are two, three sides to a story. we want to bring them together. the problem is there are certain people that will come out to provoke the police, chris. and again, we see night after night the cases of violates continue to play out. it's almost you rewrap what you talked about the other night. it seems to happen over and over again. >> and the question will be what stops the cycle of behavior. i think we have to look to leadership. it's the third side of the story. you have what the police are saying, the protesters, and the small group that seems to be making everything worse. reporters are in the middle of this. george has been there. you've seen the cnn folks here

from the beginning. you're hearing what george is saying. first, this idea of three sides. okay. you see it play out every night. truth that you see people that becoming familiar. they don't seem to fit in with the rest of the protesters and they seem to be agitators. >> everything goes smoothly. someone asked me last night do you think it's going to be calm? i said it's going to be calm until five minutes before things go bad. that's how quickly things have unralphed. you don't sense it until it's on us. >> a lot of heat given to the police. why are they so militarized. everything is fine. it wound up not being fine. they had to take action. it got hot very quickly. when you see captain johnson and, and seeming to me, very emotional about what he was doing. what is your take how the police are handling the situation? >> i want to talk about what i saw last night. i thought it was very targeted.

i thought it was a little bit different than other nights. a couple of clips of video. we were doing an interview. they let various community leaders to try to calm tensions. before the line of police moved in, there were various community leaders with bull horns talking to people. >> had been missing, right? >> it had been out there. it was about 30 to 45 minutes. might even gotten to an hour of them holding things down and fluidly. and all the sudden the armored tank moved up next to us. and you see the guy entrepreneured out. they ended up not arresting this guy. very targeted and seconds later another armored vehicle came rushing past us and immediately blocked in the black sedan trying to get out. they pulled out two men. turns out later captain johnson pulled out two handguns. they were found in that car. those people had been pulled out

not 15 feet from us. it was very targeted. you saw they move in, get the people they wanted to get out, and then they would retreat back. that's what i saw repeatedly last night. >> what do you think the cause of inciting the problem each night is? the police presence, the people feel they're being oppressed by the police, or do you think there's a push of agitation on the side of nonprotesters but people present. >> that's what i saw last night. for several hours you had hundreds of people. there were a group of kids who had come out with, like, five dozen red roses and handing them out to people. the rule was keep walking. as long as you're walking around, things are fine. they didn't want people standing around loitering. at some point, those agitators tried to get people to get into the middle of the road and start pushing up the road toward this location. they got very close last night. it was clear that police were not going to let it happen again.

they made that line in the sand in the middle of the road. but there are people in there. we had video of one man who was arrested. he had a milk jug with some pink fluid in it. i noticed he had a glove in his hand. i don't know if it was a molotov cocktail. >> but he's asking for trouble and doing it in an obvious way. >> they moved in quickly grabbed the two guys. there was a crowd of people around him. the authorities you can tell they have seen those guys. they were coming in, grabbing them out, and coming out. in the moment of that arrest, it's very chaotic and people get caught -- >> they don't know who is being grabbed and why. >> to be clear, i think this is important, the confrontation here we're seeing. it's on the southern end of the road. this was not where the tear gas was deployed. the group of protesters moved further up the road closer to the gas station that was burned down. two armored vehicles moved that

way. those officers were more isolated. that's when shots were fired. the buildings were set on fire. that's when we saw the tear gas explode. >> thank you for keeping safe doing the reporting. i'll be out there with you tonight. all this is the world is watching in the half mile stretch in a suburb of st. louis called ferguson. a freelance photographer from new mexico was tear gassed last night. a canister was thrown. many were thrown. he had to drop to a ground. it was a tough night. there was a cnn crew there. they put milk in the eyes to with the gas. his name is leo york. he's the photographer. he made a splendid recovery. he joins us now. you're looking good. how you feeling? >> pretty good. it was bad for a little while. you had been in the military, you know what it's like to go through the chamber.

nothing like last night. >> it seemed a little worse. i think it's because you weren't expecting it and all the sudden you're in pain and you can't breathe and not and tears coming down your face. it's part of the job but you don't expect it to happen. especially when you're media. i saw, you know, before i got hit with it, i saw them purposely shoot a tear gas canister to the media section. maybe not on purpose, but i was shocked and it hit me. >> what do you think was going on that set it off? >> it was just people put cones in the road. you know, maybe these people are instigators or tired of being treated this way. i don't know why. the police made it clear for about 30 minutes to get out the road then they put cones in the road and it's like all hell broke loose. >> the flash point was maybe molotov cocktail maybe it was water bottle. did you see anything?

>> i saw water bottle. i want to clear up the molotov cog tail. i've been out here for five nights. i have yet to see one. that word is thrown around a lot. i know, for sure i saw water bottles. >> the idea of agitators in the crowd. it's a growing theme why they're unable to get the community under control. when i say they i mean the community. the leaders came out and they were saying we can control this. what are you seeing? do you see an insurgent group there? >> yeah. i was hiding with a few people people were coming from chicago, west virginia. it's not us doing it. those are probably a few but mostly the people are coming hear to steal from the stores just to take advantage of the situation. because the police presence can't be focussed everywhere. so, you know, people of ferguson have been awesome to me, and they've opened doors for me. give me food, given me water on the big standoffs.

so they're just trying to send peace. >> what do they say they want. when you're with the people from ferguson. we're dealing with a small community here. what do they want knnow? >> justice for what happened. you know, they're getting this treatment for holding signs and protesting, but the guy that shot and murdered somebody at point-blank range or in the back, however it will come out. he's, you know, in a house somewhere, you know, on paid leave. >> the officer you're talking about shot versus murdered is a big distinction. that's what the investigation is all about. you get the sense that people are following the investigation. do you think it's simple frustration right now. not so much information driven but emotional. >> i think it's a mix of both. i think they're holding on to every word that leads closer to the decision behalf he did. so it's tough to say are you seeing emotion, are you seeing

frustration. at the end of the day, they just want justice. i think that's the leading feeling, because they've been going through this for years and, you know, racism is terrible. it's sad to say in 2014, it's still here in ferguson. >> and we keep hearing that for all the media and people like you, all the messaging going on. there's a call for leadership here and the community leaders are coming out and starting to develop their own. there's a little bit of a leadership vacuum. will you be out there tonight? >> i believe so. it depends on funding for are the project. we'll see what happens. i would love to. >> be safe if you're out there tonight. >> thank you. kate, back to you in new york. >> thank you so much, chris. let's talk about what chris is hitting on on the ground. the police response last night in ferguson. let's bring in lieutenant general russell who was involved in the response after hurricane katrina and eugene o'donnell and a former new york city police officer. good morning to both of you. general, i want to get your

take. when you see the video and hear the accounts from our reporters, from some of the protesters on the ground, it was peaceful for a large part of the night then something ignited another round of chaos. what do you make of the police response and how it unfolded? >> i think you have to look a little bit what is causing this. and the approach of civil disobedience. in the process of civil disobedience, the intent of the crowd or the people is to try to get the political attention that things are not going right. so the very thing that got us here. police allegations and some documentation of not just the michael brown incident but a continuous process of what people say heavy-handed police work against a group of people. so civil disobedience is to get

your attention, to cause a political change. in this particular case, i think the very thing that got us here is the same thing they're trying to use as a solution, kate, to get us out of here. which is overwhelming police use -- >> is that the right answer? >> communicating with the people and allow them to demonstrate without putting tear gas on them at the same time as a criminal element that has to be deal with in burning buildings. >> what is your prescription, if you will. what is the better alternative at this moment. the national guard has been brought in. when you look at the video from last night. you don't see a big presence of national gartd. their job was described narrowly as protecting the command center. the police command center. they were brought in -- that was thought to have been by some going to be the escalation. it seemed to be another night of

chaos. what is your prescription how to calm things down to get the focus back on the investigation? >> i think they have to continue to walk with the people as opposed to walk against them. to allow them to demonstrate until there's a political or justice that is going deal with the particular case. understand this is the case that people are protesting about. but it's a broader narrative. i think, you know, with the attorney general coming to town, they might have to figure out a way out of this. this is bigger now than ferguson. it's happening in ferguson. that's my assessment of it. people are going to continue to protest. unfortunately, when people protest, it's a sign of civil disobedience they're not fine with the politicians are saying. and the political and justice in this country need to find a way out of this that convince people the right things will be done

and there will be changes made for how they deal with people that have been arrested and once they're arrested how they're treated. >> and i want to bring you in on this. it seems pretty clear. bringing order and peace are not the same thing. especially what we're seeing on the ground in ferguson. i saw you describe bringing in the national guard is a worse case scenario. does the war scene play out or is it something else? >> as the general indicated it's a political issue. it's about as bad as you can get. >> what do you do? do you agree with the general that the answer is a political solution though? because tonight it seems that political solution might be the right prescription in the long-term, but in 24 -- 20 hours they're going to be on the streets, potentially. >> this is hard for the police. they do events like trained conferences where they do planning, contingency planning and they don't do a perfect job

of it. this is something they're basically doing in real time trying to stand it up. obviously community engagement and there's very positive signs that leadership has stepped up in the community. clergy stepped up, and the general is right. there needs to be space for people to protest if people want to do civil disobedience. the isolation of troublemakers can come from the community. we saw it in new york on occupy wall street. the people organizing did not tolerate people in the mist even though they had dramatic -- they did not tolerate people age tatding for violence. violence, you know, the cost of violence, especially for a community like ferguson would be astronomical. they need to continuously reengage the community. that's your first line of defense in this. >> one thing we've heard is it seems by night the approach of police, the tactic, if you will, is changing.

much to the frustration and the confusion of those trying to peacefully protest. they don't know what is allowed from one moment to the next. is it a change in strategy or a example of a failure of strategy, if you will, on the part of law enforcement? >> it's hard to get it right. one of the critical issues here having the competency to do it is doing it in the past. having experience doing it and having the multiagencies there. i would assume they're running many contingency plans and sort of flying by the seat of their pants. they have to continue to focus. they can't get so tactically involved they don't understand the focus the engagement in the community and a peaceful resolution of this has to be consistently on, you know, the top of the agenda. >> as we're seeing it night after night it does not seem to be calming down. the community engagement is going to be more and more important as the days progress. general, thank you so much.

you gene o'donnell, thank you. we're going to continue the coverage. coming up next, who is triggering the violence in ferguson as we're talking about. are they outsiders -- is it the outsiders creating the chaos? we'll go back down to missouri where chris is live in ferguson. plus, new reports that a grand jury could look at nefd a michael brown's shooting death as soon as this week. what does it mean for the officer involved? so ally bank really has no hidden fees on savings accounts? that's right. it's just that i'm worried about you know "hidden things..." ok, why's that? no hidden fees, from the bank where no branches equals great rates. hey, i heard you guys can help me with frog protection?

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within your designated area immediately or you will be su s subject to arrest. >> you're watching a scene from last night in ferguson, missouri a half mile stretch of road that is being literally viewed by people around the world to see what will happen next after the shooting of a young man here by a police officer. so last night another attempt at peaceful demonstration. the question is why. it was about police? was it about a group of instay gra -- instigators surrounding the shooting of michael brown. ron johnson has been put as the commander of the situation.

he said much of the violence came not from protesters but from instigators. he called them troublemakers who infiltrated the crowd, possibly from out of town. chris, thank you for joining us. first, the immediate. last night the tear gas came out. we see what happens on camera. we don't see what happens colatly off camera people are suffering from the tear gassing and the disruption here in general, true? >> most immediately the green apartments is where it started. most folks were suffering. i was hearing from people last night couldn't get their children to bed, loud, suffering from the tear gas. our is staff at the st. louis american live here. they have tear gas on the front porches, you know. it's a problem. the effects of this. >> the question what makes it stop. from a far there seems to be a vacuum of leadership. you have captain johnson appo t

appointed from the highway police side, but the local leaders. you know, your politicians doesn't seem to be the infrastructure of leadership here. is that what the community feels? st. louis has lacked across the board. the corporate leadership in st. louis should be doing something. they should be doing more to knock heads and this is bad for our region and the economic leadership knows this. what are they doing? i don't see them doing anything. >> now becomes the big question. this is the fault of the police. their militarized. they're scaring us. it was the early take. then you're not here to protest. you are here to start violence that's is wrong with the community in the first place. you're saying there's a third answer here you believe is closest to the truth. you say you have information there are instigators, is the word you used coming into the community and trying to start trouble and ruining protests. >> yes. the militarized police tactics are partly a response to it.

the first came from a molotov cocktail. >> you live here. you have never seen that. >> never. it came from chicago. a communist group from chicago came into the green apartments and showed the kids how to make them. they're still here but we're going run them out. >> is this what you're told or do you know it? >> i know it. we have a photojournalist embedded with them and many eye witness residents in the community. one said to the governor of missouri to fix the problem. he didn't do anything. but the community, the citizens are going to run them out. >> the translation becomes what we see on camera. i don't see right communist types getting arrested. it seems to be african-american locals. >> they were arrested. there are pictures of arrest. >> all right, good. >> we're working on it. they're going to be run out. >> all right. and when you say run out. what do you mean the last thing we want is things done the wrong way. >> no vigilante justice.

we'll going to make sure they're not here. >> by letting media know? >> we're working on it. >> i get your being secretive because you have your own process. what matters most is stability. it's a small place we're talking about here. it's having big reverberations because the issues involved. that takes us to the last point here. the community say it is wants justice. all right. the question becomes what will justice mean? you have the st. louis dispatch saying they may have as many dozen eye witnesses who will back up what the officer said what happened that night. the autopsy, as you know, was somewhat of a revelation. the thought it was done from behind. the autopsy may suggest otherwise. what happens here if the officer winds up having had a justified shooting >>well, first the can the prosecutors manipulating the process. >> all the information should have come out at once as a group. leaking out in pieces is encouraging the speculation.

the innocence is guilt of officer wilson is one matter. we want just nice the case of michael brown. but the ferguson police in the unit when he was killed stood around the man for four hours while the community howled in pain and grief. it was torture on the community. those are torture tactics that are common in ferguson and st. louis county and st. louis city. that is what we're going to stop through the movement. >> you're saying you're looking at the micro and macro. what happened is horrible any way you look at it. you're saying it tapped into other issues that the community is living with for a long time. it's just as a big a problem. >> the st. louis american, our newspaper, we're in it for the long run. we're going stop intimidation tactics. it's going to end with the movement. >> do you see hopefully tonight it's too early to know now. hopefully we see more community organizers, more people coming

out trying to control what it is so we can separate the instigators from the people who want progress. >> antonio and others have been asking for men. we're going it get the run out. and the economic leadership needs to pressure the police to slow down on the tactics. above all, quit gassing residents. tear gas has been shot into the backyards of residents. there's videos. it's not acceptable. captain ron johnson should not accept any gassing of residents in the neighborhood or peaceful prote protesters. >> you know how quickly it gets confused and chaotic and in the response is just general not as targeted. this is an ongoing conversation. let's see what happens tonight. let's hope we have less to talk about of this type of gassing and reaction tomorrow than we did after last night.

thank you very much. we appreciate. let's take a break. when we come back, we'll have more what really happened when michael brown was shot. we are starting to hear from friends of the officer who shot him. we're going to hear some of what they say happened from him coming up. [announcer] play close-good and close. help keep teeth clean and breath fresh with beneful healthy smile snacks. with soft meaty centers and teeth cleaning texture,it's dental that tastes so good. beneful healthy smile food and snacks. i make a lot of purchases foand i get ass. lot in return with ink plus from chase. like 50,000 bonus points when i spent $5,000 in the first 3 months after i opened my account. and i earn 5 times the rewards on internet, phone services and at office supply stores. with ink plus i can choose how to redeem my points. travel, gift cards, even cash back. and my rewards points won't expire. so you can make owning a business even more rewarding. ink from chase. so you can.

welcome back. we start in iraq.

president obama saying kurdish and iraqi forces have retaken control of iraq's largest dam from isis militants with help from some 35 u.s. air strikes. pope francis weighing in now saying efforts to stop militants from attacking religious minorities in iraq are legitimate. but he said the international community should decide collectively how to intervene. israel and hamas have agreed to extend the cease-fire. another 24 hours. it is set to end midnight local time. this will allow time for negotiators to hammer out a long-term peace deal. prime minister ben min netanyahu tried to hide a draft cease-fire plan from cabinet members. if a draft agreement was reached that met his commands he would show them. an attack on a civilian car

caravan. 15 bodies have been recovered so far. rebels are denying any attack took place. the civilians were reportedly attacked with roktss and ore rockets imported from russia. in the meantime russian's foreign minister said there's no progress in talks aimed a the the saes fire between ukraine and pro-russian separatists in eastern ukraine. back here state side. quite a scare in southern california. it looks as though police have prevented yet another school tragedy. they have arrested two students who allegedly plan to shoot and kill three staff members and as many students as they could at south pasadena high school. officials at the school tipped them off and one of the suspects tried to flee from police. psychologists and counsel lors should be at the school. very close to where i used to

live. not something they, i think, anticipated. family members and school officials and parents glad that police acted quickly. >> of course. absolutely. absolutely. let's turn to the breaking news we've been following. violent protests overnight in ferguson, missouri. ten days a of the the shooting death of michael brown. the community is outraged and searching for answers. there are reports a grand jury could look at evidence in brown's shooting. some point as early as this week. this is reports of officer darren wilson's version of events are just starting to come out. joining us now to discuss cnn legal analyst, former prosecutor and criminal defense attorney emeril ivory. good morning to both of you. a lot to get through this morning. we put the protest aside. i want to talk about the investigation, the version of events, and the autopsies that we now are learning more about. i want us to first remind

viewers and have you listen to the version of events. josey called into a local radio station, kftk gave her version of events that came from darren wilson. a source close to the investigation with detailed knowledge of the investigation says this is accurate in the sense that this is what darren wilson told investigators. take a listen to this. >> michael takes off with gun get to be about 35-feet away and darren, first protocol is to pursue. he stands up and yells. michael and his friend turn around and michael starts talking about him. what are you going to do about it? you're not going to shoot me. then he said all the sudden he started to rush him. he started coming at him. he started shooting and he just coming. so he really thinks he was on

something. because he kept coming. it was unbelievable. the final shot was in the forehead. >> very different version of events, paul, than what we've heard previously to the point. what do you make of it? probably not a surprise that the other person involved in this is a very different story >>well, it's not a surprise to me, because i find in these cases when there are a lot of witnesses to an event, as those witness accounts are revealed, you find that they're different perspectives and you also find there may be an entirely different story. >> why haven't we heard the perspective yet? >> tradition nayly in the officer-involved shootings. the prosecutor who is handling the case, ultimately keeps a tight reign on the information. normally the public isn't looking that closely at the particular case. maybe it's the family. you don't have the kinds of problems you're seeing here. i think this is the kind of

case, because of the rioting, maybe we have to throw out the rule book in how they're traditionally handled and make the investigation more transparent. i think the officer's side of the story should have come out earlier so people might see why there might be a delay in the decision. >> what do you make of the version of the events? >> i agree completely with paul. it seems there is caution taken for any statements that relate to the officer, but when it comes to information about michael brown or any of the witnesses that have testified to what they have seen -- what they saw in his killing, then it's free reign. put the information out quickly. i'm concerned with the prosecutor being willing to hold back on information as it relates to the officer versus information as it relates to, you know, the victim, which is michael brown, and which is the actual, you know, sort of person he is supposed to be trying to find justice for. the cries for him to step down i think only increase when this kind of information comes out

and being protected for the officer. >> for me, i guess, there's a little bit of a question. i want to get your take. the difference between prosecutor here and the local police force. if there is a difference. because one of the criticisms early on is that there were such a selective release of information coming from the police that fed into the lack -- complete lack of trust from the community. that's not even come from the prosecutor. >> we know there's a difference between what the authorities are supposed to be doing and what the prosecutor is doing. but even very early on when ronnie johnson was appointed, the prosecutor made a comment about not agreeing that ronnie johnson should come in and take over for the police department of ferguson. he made a statement that said he didn't feel it was fair toif th police. it would be in the best interest of the prosecutor to stop comment on his thoughts about the police department. >> do you think that the prosecutor, the local prosecutor

here, there's a chance he could be stepping down. what would it do to the case? what would do to a change of venue type of situation? >> you're going see a shift now in attention toward the prosecutor. >> there is. i'm seeing articles that are calling into question his background. >> the prosecuting attorney who is the man in control of the investigation he's the guy behind the curtain, very close ties to the police. mother, father, uncle, cousin, brother. all employees of the police department at one time or another. his father was killed in an incident involving the arrest of a black suspect. >> in your mind it discredits him to handle the case? >> not in terms of a lawyer. you know people in the community will be sensitive to this. the federal government is investigating. eric holder could superseed the locals at any point and take over the investigation. you may also see pressure for a special prosecutor to be appointed by governor nixon in the case.

i think he's convening a grand jury this week. >> it's moving along. >> it's moving fast. usually they move along more slowly. >> go ahead. it's important to look at the prosecutor's record. and, for example, he prosecuted a case where two african-americans who were killed by two white police officers at the jack and a box were not charged. you think about his skills as a lawyer that's one thing. his perceptions and the idea behalf he believes and how he prosecutes the case is what is really important. so here you have a prosecutor who has a family line of police officers, a father who was killed by an african-american, and another case where he didn't prosecute two african-americans who were killed by two white police officers. it doesn't seem right. >> we're talked about elected officials in a county. he's the elected, selected by the people prosecutor for st. louis county. so it's really, you know, hard to say we should throw him out

the prosecutorial role until we see actual evidence of bias. >> sure. >> i don't know we've seen that yet. >> i'm not sure we haven't. also, when you say elected by the people. it's not to make an excuse for black people not voting. we know there's not a huge turnout of black people in ferguson, missouri, or even in the area that come out to vote. he's elected by the people that, you know, are always represented to the advantage. so that's no excuse at all. people need to vote. that's how things would change. >> that is one of the, i think we can say, many lessons that can be learn frommed the situation. first and foremost, trying to understand exactly what is happening in the case. and exactly what version of events is the truth. that's with where the investigation needs to be focussed. that's what we'll be talking about more on the show. mo, thank you. paul, thank you. a lot to work through on the case and beyond. coming up next we'll continue to cover more of this and look at the chaos in ferguson. a cnn crew on the ground caught

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>> the headline now much broader than the shooting of michael brown. the picture tells the story. another night of turmoil in ferguson, missouri. it started with peaceful protests but it der or it your rated as instigators took over. those open fire on police las vegas two protesters wounded. more than 30 arrests were made after that. stunned grenade, tear gas also used. several members of our cnn team caught in the mix. ed and steve are with us now. you were in the middle of it last night. a lot of footage is your own. in your opinion, what went wrong? >> i just think that they were trying to control these more

militant elements of the scene here. that is just something that the authorities here haven't been able to figure out how to do that. >> why not? >> i just think a couple of moments that took out to me from last night. religious leaders out there, community leaders that were had a little bit more street cred, if you will, right. and even those guys couldn't get through. you could see them. they were up in their faces like if you do this, if you do this, don't do this. it was tense. >> do you buy into the instigator theory they're out of town towners, or maybe people told things? >> there are out of towners here. last night i saw the t-shirts from several organizations i recognized from when i covered occupy wall street and other demonstrations. not just occupy not to single it

out. we saw people intent on being defiant, going to head to head with police and like ed said, refusing to listen to the community leaders. at the same time night after night after night we've heard the gunshots. there are people in the crowd who are here to do more than just protest. who come here armed. they're a small number that police have talked to us about. they showed us the guns tonight they confiscated. we heard the gunshots. >> we saw somebody lightening a fire also. >> yes. during that really tense standoff with police right around where mike brown was shot. the tear gas canisters were going off, flash grenades were going off. we saw somebody, an individual, try to light a building on fire while we were up there. and this is a small number of people compare to the hundreds of people that came out yesterday and were protesting, marching up-and-down peacefully. >> and is it the same themes

that are bringing people out? you know, are they feeding off the information that is coming out about the investigation or are these long held feelings that are bubbling over because of what happened with michael brown. >> i think you get a little bit of both. the michael brown -- that's the case. but their bigger point is what you're talking about. >> an officer -- arrest of officers will it make it go away? >> anything short of a conviction is going to be tough to swallow for a lot of those people. i'm not saying it's right or wrong. obviously the process needs to play out. i don't sense a lot of patience -- you hear a lot of people wondering why he hasn't been indicted yet. the case hasn't gone to a grand jury, as far as we know. >> they maybe have one in panel. you can rest without indictment. the investigation, of course, being parallel with the overall social condition. there's been a lot of talk about the militarization of the police

and heavy-handed tackics. you did occupy wall street. and so did i. we have seen to many bad situations around the world. this is only a half mile street. is there an argument to be made because they could overcome the area quickly and suppress the number of people squikly. is there a little bit more tolerance night after night? >> i think we saw more restraint from the police department last night than we had seen in previous nights. they stood their ground and formed lines and didn't move in on the crowd. on the previous nights we saw them within a short period of time move in on the crowd after they did not disperse. last night the order came multiple times and yet they didn't move in. when they saw somebody throw a bottle at the police out of the crowd, a bad actor, at least that's what you're calling them. you saw the riot police pointing. and a small team would emerge --

>> a specific targeted removal of that person. >> exactly. >> let me also say, because what i saw from the authorities what i've heard from several police on the ground. when you ask them about -- not us asking but why coming in here with the tanks and that sort of thing? they have to disperse into the neighborhoods and find the people firing off the shots. i hear repeatedly that you can't send a patrol car there. the bullets will fly through the door. you need the heavier equipment. it's up to other people to debate whether it's right or wrong. i'm letting you know. you have an officer up high. they're able to see above the crowd. it makes them feel more secure. >> more emotional than we've seen johnson in the past. he's worried about the kids in the housing and drive by shootings and doing whatever he can to stop the violence. hopefully tonight gets better. guys like you putting yourself in harm's way.

without you, we wouldn't know about the instigator and the component. it would look like cops versus locals. thank you for being here. i'll be with you tonight. coming up on "new day" more on the chaos that continues to overwhelm this community in ferguson. we're going to talk with an official who tried to keep the peace. remember, there's a vacuum of leadership then you have the investigative side. you have the forensic pathologist who took part in the private autopsy of michael brown. that's what you've heard about. not the state's autopsy. we'll find out what it shows from their perspective. stay with us. feel that in your muscles? yeah... i do... try a new way to bank, where no branches equals great rates. this is the first power plant in the country to combine solar and natural gas at the same location. during the day, we generate as much electricity

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there is breaking news out of ferguson, missouri. once again within now thankfully calm. a short hours ago peaceful protests abruptly ended mayhem ensued. let's take a look how order and peace desin grated into violence. >> police don't want people to c congress grate in one spot. >> i think we're about to be arrested because we're standing on the sidewalk. >> move out of the way, sir. move! several hundred people now marching through the streets.

everyone seems to be keeping the peace. any small thing can set the community off here. people who are standing around too long are basically being arrested for failure to disperse. >> we have seen several water bottles. tactical units being moved in. >> here come the police. >> they started moving toward. it's kind of a standoff here. you can see police have put on their gas mask. you can an officer with the scope. >> it's a chaotic scene. they are aggressively dispersing the crowd. >> you see police officers with guns and shielding. i don't know why they're standing here ready for such armed confrontation. there's nothing going on on this street right now that merits this scene. >> an attention is on the police side at this point. >> you look at the amount of law enforcement agents here.

there are tanks after tanks and tanks. and more people stationed on roofs. there are people on the crowd. a minority but they're there who are trying to instigate with the police. >> okay. some grenades that were thrown to break up some of the protesters. now there is tear gas. >> they're throwing more tear gas. >> what is going on there? >> this is a photographer who got hit pretty badly by the tear gas. somebody get a medic, okay. >> this is an extremely tense situation that has elevated to the level of what we saw last night with tear gas and smoke being blown. moments ago we heard the sound of gunshot. >> i hit the floor. i couldn't breathe. it felt like i was under water and i was drowning. everyone in our immediate vicinity is being overcome by tear gas. and the protesters are saying this is our house. we're not going anywhere. police are moving in in force.

they are taken into custody one by one. >> there's been a gunshot victim. please leave. >> i don't want anybody to get hurt. i don't want an officer to get hurt. i don't want a citizens to get hurt. we have to find a way to stop i it. >> and the answer to the problem is still being sought here. just a few hours ago, that's what was happening in ferguson, missouri. will tonight be better? that's the big question. today community leaders will try to make that the reality. we'll have to wait and see. kate, we'll take you through what happened last night. >> absolutely right. we'll have more details starting. i'll bring you more details that are starting to emerge about the investigation. a supporter of officer darren wilson calling the missouri radio station to back up the officer's side of the discover. we'll have more on that. but for now, let's get back to the scene, chris, in missour t

wild night there, chris. >> that's very unfortunate. it's not helping this community get what the presidents. which is looking for answers. instead you have a group that was simply looking for trouble. and the officer's had to respond. gunshots did come out. there was met by a return of force an arrest by the police. another question is what set it off and who and why and those are answers that often get lost in the fray. we have george howell who is outside. the police station t morning. obviously all the of it started as a reaction to the shooting of michael brown. now, george, it seems to be a dynamic on its own. >> let's try to break it down. the nuances of it. people should be able to protest, right. as long as people remain peaceful. you can get into a police officer's face. you can say what you need to say. as long as it remains peaceful. media should be able to report the story. that should be able to happen, but here is the question. is it the police, are police

being too forceful with the protesters. are they being too forceful with the media. the other is it inside the group of protesters is it a small group that continue to provoke violence. it continues to happen night after night after night. that's what we're seeing now. again, police try to -- they lifted the curfew and seemed to get the same results. they samed to get a number of people who provoked violence and the problem. we know 31 people were arrested, two people were shot. there were two fires that happened. our crews were out there. you see video of what they had to endure. again, it's a tense, difficult situation that maybe rooted to deeper-seated issues, frankly, that is taking voice, chris, within the case of michael brown. people want answers and as long as those answers are slow to come, it seems people remain

outraged. >> george, you know, it seems to be exactly the situation. not even 12 hours ago. we were in italy and this street here in ferguson, missouri, this was the focus of the newscast there. everybody is watching they can't like what they're seeing here now. what makes it stop in you watched it unfold. it's getting familiar. the question does more work have to be done by the police leadership during the day to identify the group of instigators if that's going on before it becomes night. >> i would imagine there's probably some sort of intelligence work being done probably throughout the day. i think what we're going to see today having talked to some of the people in the community leaders that were out there is spreading the message. captain johnson spoke in the overnight hours about wanting people to protest peacefully to get that into the daylight hours, and we'll see if the message gets spread. it was about 3:00 in the morning

here when captain johnson said that. he'll probably need clergy members and other people to spread the word. we'll see if it trickles out. there's the need protest. there's a need to keep it alive in the hearts and minds of the community. because they want answers. you have to expect they will be out. maybe they'll be asking for moratorium. you'll be there tonight. make sure you keep yourself safe. >> one of the important things to remember, obviously, as you get to see these pictures is that the community is coming together. that has been probably the best source of progress. last night you saw local leaders and especially clergy men and women coming and literally addressing people foreign person one on one saying this is what needs to be done. don't make the situation worse. let's remember the message. one of them bishop edwin bass founder and pastor of the

empowered church in choist. lou. he spent most of the day with members of the community. trying to do that. bishop, thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me. >> the community, obviously michael brown, being shot by a police officer was a flash point and also a metaphor for what the community believes their reality is when it comes toing with the police. how do you help this community deal with what matters without having it become violence? >> well, we continue to do the same thing. we have krclergy on the street dealing with people on a one-on-one basis. our goal is to have them focus on justice and peace. we're doing everything we can to speak to people one on one. i think this is a great opportunity to speak to both law enforcement and the community and ask them to not be fooled into this by the acts of a few people and cause them to react in sometimes and overreact in a way that really is destructive

and furthers that kind of behavior. >> do you believe there's an opportunist element that is finding the way into ferguson and using this situation to push anarchy, to push violence. unfamiliar faces to you. do you believe it? >> i absolutely believe it. i've had some of the law enforcement people point out to me some of of the people they've identified as having come into the community for the purpose of promulgating an ark i can. they are really -- in some cases, in the case of molotov cocktails, they've been handing it to people who were somewhat heated in their emotions at that point and compelling and encouraging them to throw them. >> it easy to find angry people in the situation especially as it remains unresolved. >> if you get the word from leadership, we want a mortatorim on the protest to put a pot on

it. how do you handle the request? you don't know if the urm urgency goes away. you don't want to keep a cycle of violence. what do you do with the request? >> i think that's an excellent question. first of all, i would not be for having a moratorium. i think the peaceful element of the community need the opportunity to exercise their constitutional rights to peaceful protests. however, having said that, if it becomes the decision, we'll certainly be out in the community again encouraging people to operate and restrain. to take the long view of this to allow justice take the due course. >> would you accept a mortatorim that the protests are only during the day because the problems are obviously at night. >> personally, i would accept that. i'm not sure that the community would accept that. >> you're hearing enough from leadership. you're filling the role, obviously, the religious always have a role in communities like

this. your governor, your council people, do you believe they're out there front and center? >> i think everybody is struggling trying to make sense of a difficult situation. and the question is how much should you be throughout and how much should you not be out there? i think that's a struggle. for me personally i think it's tiflt to second guess the governor or other people. i think they're earnestly trying to moderate this and do it in a way that will bring peace to the community. >> information trickling out about the investigation. people saying it is part of a propaganda war going on by the police. they are trying to conflate and confuse. the information from the autopsy is from the private side. what do you think should be happening with the investigation and how much people are reading into it right now? >> i think certainly the release of information inflames emotions, causes people to draw conclusions at the particular time. there's somewhat of a yo yo

effect going on here. to the extent we're able to deliver substantiative information in a more complete, thorough way. i think that's going to help the situation in the community. >> final thought, bishop. are you seeing any sign there's any progress at all made in terms of getting the community at peace with allowing the process? >> i think yesterday during the day, if you had been there for prior day witne prior, i'm sure you have been. the atmosphere was different than in previous days. i believe things are getting a little better every day. the problem is if we can find a way to stop the striels at the end of the day, we'll start the day with a fresh start and we'll be able to continue to improve. unfortunately, the set back at the end of the day every day causes us to take steps back ward and having to start again. i think there's an improvement in the climate of the community. >> and it is complicated although it's a small area. we don't want the armored vehicles a s

vehicles. you have the instigators here like molotov cocktails you have to be ready to protect the community. it's complicated. thank you, bishop. be safe. back to you. it's great to see the bishop and the other clergy and leaders in the community stepping up and speaking out. thank you for your reporting, chris. let's give you a look at the headline. we want to start in iraq kurdish and iraqi forces have retaken control of the largest dam from isis militants with help from u.s. strikes. propose francis weighing in saying efforts should be made. but he said the international community should decide collectively how to intervene. there is still hope for a long-term peace agreement between israel and hamas. the two sides agreeing to extend the cease-fire another 24 hours until midnight local time. but despite the new deadline, officials on both sides offered little reason for optimism on reaching a long-term goal.

israel reportedly hopes for an understanding that neither side will continue the violence should they fail to reach an agreement. texas governor rick perry's high power defense team said the charges against him are, quote, banana republic politics that won't hold up in court" he's accused of abusing his power after making good on a threat to cut funding on the state yut un. after the d.a. refused to resign following a drunk driving conviction. perry will not be arrested but he'll have the mug shot taken and could appear in court as soon as friday. he's planning on visiting key prshl primary states this month. a mamassive data breach. hackers in china stole more than millions of information. it includes names, social security numbers, addresses, and

phone numbers. obviously id theft is a real concern. the company said anyone who saw or was referred to a doctor in their network within the last five years is affected. >> alabama, florida, mississippi, tennessee, and texas where the states they're most concerned about. the company has the most hospitals. >> yeah. all right. coming up next. attorney general eric holder is heading to ferguson, missouri after president obama calls for calm. is the administration doing enough to help ease the tension we're going to discuss. a family requested autopsy vealed yesterday showed that michael brown was shot six times. we're going to speak with the forensic pathologist, the man on the screen. he helped conduct his autopsy. we'll have his perspective ahead. we all eat foods that are acidic ... we all have risk of acid erosion. there's only so much enamel, and everybody needs to do something about it now

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peaceful protest turned into violence overnight over the michael brown shooting. now attorney general eric holder is preparing to head to ferguson tomorrow to speak with community leaders and investors. will it help calm the community. what is the role of the administration in the investigation? joining us is the senior white house correspondent as well as a cnn political commentator and opinion columnist for the new york times. good morning. you heard, let me start with you, jim. you heard the president. he hit on the theme let's work to heal each other not wound each other. you heard it over and over in his comments yesterday. what do you expect, though, to see more from the president. the attorney general is going to ferguson. what dow why -- do you think? should the president go? >> you heard ann ask the statement and the president did not answer the question. i've been told by officials at the white house that the president has not taken such a

trip off the table. it could still happen. i don't think it's going to happen this week. i think the president is going to, as planned, go to martha's vineyard and wrap up the rest of his vacation. eric holding out to ferguson. i think is a very interesting development. clearly the obama administration wants to see a greater federal role in the investigation. as you heard from the president say yesterday he doesn't want to tip the scales of justice. put his thumbs on the scales of justice. that's why the president is not going right away. eric holder making it clear in a statement yesterday he's troubled by some of the things that have developed over the last several days. the police putting out that information about michael brown being involved in some sort of theft, and how it didn't really have anything to do with the killing. the obama administration is troubled by the events taking place in ferguson. i think you'll see the beginning of the administration dealing with that when holder gets on

the ground tomorrow. >> what do you think is the right role for the president and the attorney general to have in this. attorney general there's more of a role potentially civil rights violation. we heard calls for the president to do more when the situation with trayvon martin happened. what is the appropriate role? z>> it's one of the thing use almost can't win. i think the president said something that was very important, which is that he, you know, that's a big thumb when you're the president. if you put that thumb on the scales you really do tip it. we have to remember we only know what we know in the public. so people who are asking for more or less only know what they have seen -- >> he has to be careful. >> there's a whole investigation that is happening. it happened in the middle of a residential neighborhood. we have heard from four or five witnesses. there may be dozens of other

witnesses who may have completely different accounts of things. they have i'm sure that the justice department and the local authorities have completed much of their forensic investigations. they have investigation we simply are not privvy to. you have to be careful. because, you know, as tragic as the losing of mike brown is. there's another life that hangs in the balance. and the police officers who are still at work. and so you really want to be fair to everyone at that point. and so i think it's important for him to weigh that. it sound like he is weighing that. >> and you heard it, also, jim, in the statement coming from the attorney general. he said i realize there is a tremendous interest in the facts of the incident that lead to michael brown's death. i ask for the publics' patience as we conduct the investigation. it does raise the question and charles said it. you're dammed if you co, dammed if you don't. many people want you to do more,

many people want you to do less. with the attorney general going down there, what does it get the skmun any is it a pr move or is the attorney general going there to show something more? z>> i would be interested to her charles' take. how often do we see the attorney general go right into the middle of a big festering, emotional drama that is unfolding on the national stage. nothing has been done in terms of bringing this police officer to justice in any sense. to have the attorney general go in there, you know, to some extent that does put a thumb on the scales of justice. and the obama administration will have to deal with that. but at the same time sending the president to ferguson, missouri right now whether he's on vacation or not on vacation. that would be a risky step. if the president goes on the

ground and meets with people and later that night there's more violence. critics could say that he didn't solver the problem and perhaps made it worse. i think the white house is being cautious. there's a potential for a big downside. you heard the president say he's not thrilled with the idea -- or that was my sense of the national guard going in there. and the national guard had a small footprint, it sounds like, last night. if it continues like this day after day you really have to start asking the question what more can the federal government do to get a handle on the unrest in that community? because it obviously can't be allowed to continue. >> and i want to get your take, charles. in the broader context. we were talking about this. it seems to have touched something larger than ferguson. much larger than missouri. the president almost alluded to that in his remarks yesterday. i want to play one more sound byte and get your take.

>> sure. >> you have young men of color in many communities who are more likely to end up in jail or the criminal justice system than they are in a good job or a college and part of my job they can do, i think, without any potential conflicts is to get at those root causes. >> the president is talking about a little bit here my brother's keeper. it's a initiative he cares a lot about. it doesn't gate lot of media coverage. what does it touch on? the larger conversation that needs to happen. >> it touch on mutual suspici s suspicious. there are biases embedded in our society. people often ask the question that is basically useless. which is somebody racist or not racist. that question only works in the most extreme cases.

most cases, it's not about that. it's biases that we kind of absorb sometimes subconsciously and reflect them back subconsciously very often, and those things show up when you look at data about how krids treated from the earliest ages all the way up through high school, college, employment, criminal justice system. and what you're -- what the president is getting at is how do we deal with the fact that we do have these inadequacies showing up and how do we help the kids have brlt outcomes trying to counter act what is happening and what is showing up in the data tap. i think it ends up showing up on the street of ferguson. they feel it on a personal level there is an inequity and showing up and saying we really -- we can't stand the weight of this. we don't like it's happening to

us and our children. i hate having to have the conversations with my kid about how to talk to a police officer if they encounter the police officer. that can get out in front of the facts. they don't know exactly what they want answers. they don't know all answers but they come to it with a suspicious that something could have gone and a kid is dead. i think you're seeing that show up on the streets. >> and separate of the investigati investigation, making a good point. it's important to have the conversation and important it continues. because you can see it. you can see it on the ground. you can almost feel that frustration. the visceral reaction they're having. >> charles, jim, an important conversation. thank you so much. coming up next on "new day" more on the unrest in ferguson. is there a deeper issue at play we're talking about here beyond michael brown's death.

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welcome back to "new day" we're live from ferguson, missouri, following the breaking news. after a night of chaos that you saw. nothing unusual here. the question is when will it end? the city clearly struggling to cope with protests and clashes with police. what started it? everyone knows the answer.

michael brown's shooting as well as the troubling images coming out of ferguson that raise big questions about what really motivates the frustration and the anger. the question here is what i'm going put to you mr. arden, mccoy. the first african-american superintendents here. and i know that was a situation that feeds into your feelings about how race is constructed. there's the word. when you say it in the media. race means race baiting. it's inflammation, it's a distractions. but what do you make that have. when you look at the situation in the community and why we're seeing what we are seeing can you ignore that race matters here? >> first, i want to extend my condolences to the michael brown

family and anyone affected by this. race is in the air. it impacts what is occurring. i have to quote the words of michael mcdonald who graduated from ferguson in this area. you don't know me but i'm your brother. and the issue of race is this race of em pa think and connecting and understanding that some people are living in a living hell every day. but some others have the privilege of not knowing that and not being a part of that. race has a way of making it hidden, insulated, and people withdraw to their own conners. this is a humanity issue. it makes us have to come together or acknowledge things that have been thorough for a long time. >> the reality of what has been here is too many mothers see their kids in michael brown. too many young brown men that said it could be me because i don't get treated the way a white kid would. >> for certain. many protesters are hear and they stand as 10,000. they come as one but stand as

10,000. what we see is people who have many issues and no means to be heard. riot is mentioned as the language of unheard. we don't a applaud or encourage them. we have to listen who has been underserve. and understand there's a commonality between those individuals and those not here today. we have to understand there's a connection with this. the world for one affects would for all. if there's injustice one place there's a possibility of injustice anywhere. >> i think you see that in the truth of situation. why do people watch. it's tantalizing. people are drawn by the picture. the media is drawn by that. what do you do with it? the people said we need to find out what happened with michael brown. it's much bigger than michael brown. not to diminish his loss, his family's loss. but what happens here day in and day out in the community you

worked in with the cops and the community. >> definitely. i work with cops and the community. i'm a part of the community. i grew up five miles from where we're standing here in the community. i'm still a part of it. what we see is the need for sustained, united leadership. it's easy to come one day, it's easy to come for one week. it's been done for a month. but sustained united leadership, white, black, brown, all in between to understand and talk about what we need to make our community better. >> fair criticism. don't blow stuff up. don't try to attack the cops. if you stop doing that, the cops won't bother you. >> definitely. >> what is the reaction? >> riot is the language of the unheard. individuals are taking actions. this is their form of speech acts. we need to tell the individuals there's a productive way of doing it and violence has no place here. violence brought us the place now.

violence has no place here. we will not be heard or respect if we do stuff in ways not respected. >> there are clergy and people coming out organically as the he head of the community to deal with the protest. where are the big elected leaders and the locals who come with the security and staff that feed the community what it need to keep focussed on what really matters. i feel there is no one ahead of the parade at night. >> it's a great question. many people voice their concerns with the fact that elected officials show up several days later. there's not always been a sustained presence of -- >> they don't feel spoken for. they feel when they go back home like they're being told to right now it end. >> that's right. i was present with many officials in a rally as well as at the church service to make sure that we come together and

raise structures for feedback loops in order to be heard and have representative government serve its true purpose. difficult different systems and organizations coming together. i'm part of my brother's keeper initiative and boy scouts of america initiative. two different groups. boy scouts of america has primarily white. i'm not white but we're bridging to make sure that the people in leadership are doing something to mentor students and youth. now we have to target those who feel unheard. it's a different population we have to touch. >> just as the cycle we're seeing here in ferguson repeats night after night. if you don't have better dialogue between the moment it is continues. >> yes, it does. >> thank you very much. thank you for being straight with us about it. when you ask the questions, say what about the looting. stop it. it's defenoffensive. people want to fight. and you see situations like ferguson and what will make it end?

nothing. not unless community comes together. the community as a whole. we'll keep talking about this as we cover the situation here. right now a quick break on "new day." when we come back, the information what you're hearing about michael brown's body is a private autopsy ra. we talk with a forensic pathologist who helped and get their take. what the results will tell us about the shooting and what the investigation may yield going forward. (vo) ours is a world of passengers. the red-eyes. (daughter) i'm really tired. (vo) the transfers. well, that's kid number three. (vo) the co-pilots. all sitting... ...trusting... ...waiting...

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we're fooling the breaking news for you as you saw a violent night of demonstrations erupted in ferguson, missouri overnight. it came hours after the release of the independent autopsy commissioned by michael brown's parents. it found that the unarmed teenager had been shot six times. joining us this morning is sean parcels. a forensic pathologist who took part in the private autopsy. thank you for joining us this morning. >> no problem. thank you for having me. >> of course. there's a lot of attention, as probably not surprised at all to

you, on these autopsy results and what you found. of course, on the gunshot wounds. i want to call up that diagram of one of the things we stlau. where you're pointing out entry and exit wounds and where it hand landed. when you see the diagram it looks like it's on the front. is it possible he could be shot from behind. can you explain your analysis? >> yes. the one shot in particular that could have come from the back would have been the gunshot wound that happened to -- and keep in mind when you look at that chart, you're talking about the body being in the anatomical position. we really don't stand in that position. but we call this the medial aspect of the forearm, and if you're standing up, like i'm facing the camera now and i put my arm down like i'm walking, this portion of your arm is actually facing backwards.

so if a shot came from the back, it could have hit this part of the arm and that shot actually exited out of this part of the arm. it was a through and through. >> is it your analysis he was shot from behind or just that it's a possibility you cannot conclude that? >> we can't rule it out. we can't conclude 100% that's where the shot came from. because you could also put your arm up this way as if you're running or you're putting your arms up like you're surrender and the shot comes from affront. it can hit the same region of the body, or it could have been a shot like this where you're putting your hands up to block something like a defensive type wound. >> and the head wound, the head wound, sean, is where a lot of attention must be. as it seems to be the fatal wound. from your perspective, from your analysis, what you see on michael brown's body was he falling, was he charging? and i asked that because now we

have a new account coming out from someone that the officer' account of events is beginning to come out. one of the things that is said that michael bum rushed the officer. seemed to be charging a the officer. from your analysis, what do you any. >> sure. both are possibilities. i did hear he charged the officer. i heard it yesterday. also, keep in mind that mr. brown was a very tall individual. we don't know from our forensic analysis yet, how tall the officer is compared to mr. brown. and the fact that the two shots to the head, one coming in right above the right eye brow and one at the top of the apex, if the officer is significantly shorter than mr. brown is, then mr. brown, as he's charging toward the officer is going have to be bent over to achieve the trajectories we saw.

however, if you look at mr. brown falling, just falling straightforward as he's going toward face first toward the ground then the same trajectories can be met as well. again, we have to really have a reconstruction of the shooting scene. we've got to know the distance. we've got to know what events occurred in the car. we have to know how tall the officer is compared to how tall mr. brown is to really put this information back together and say more conclusively what is a better theory as to what happened. >> and that gets to, i think, an important question. not only what you know but also what you don't know. what is the biggest unknown what is missing to complete your analysis, would you say? >> well, number one dr. baden and i need tow see the first autopsy. we need to understand what the pathologist saw. we need to see the photographs, the report. we need understand his analysis,

the toxicology report. we need to see mr. brown's clothing to see if there were any gunshots at close range because we didn't see the clothing and the clothing can filter out gunshot residue that won't get on to the skin. i know, there's been talk abouted a possible gunshot in the car. we need to know what event os cured there. what processing of the car the authorities have done. we need to understand, also, as i said, the officer's height compared to the height of mr. brown. also, very importantly the officer's account. not the friends's account but the officer's account of what happened. if you have ten witnesses that say something that they saw that the attorneys can filter out down to five who are credible, we put those together and start ruling out theories that don't

make any sense. then you come down to one or two theories and say this is probably what happened. >> and you can fit it into your science and what you found in your autopsy. thank you. coming up next much more on what really happened when michael brown was shot. friends of the officer who shot him are starting to speak out. we're going to hear some more of what they say happened coming up. [announcer] play close-good and close. help keep teeth clean and breath fresh with beneful healthy smile snacks. with soft meaty centers and teeth cleaning texture,it's dental that tastes so good. beneful healthy smile food and snacks. so i can reach ally bank 24/7, but there are24/7branches? it's just i'm a little reluctant to try new things. what's wrong with trying new things? feel that in your muscles? yeah... i do... try a new way to bank, where no branches equals great rates.

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good to have you back with us here on "new day." violence and unrest flaring up

again overnight in ferguson, missouri, following the death of 18-year-old michael brown. there are differing accounts of what happened during that shooting, an apparent friend of wilson, the officer involved, has come forward claiming that the officer was bum-rushed by the unarmed teenager but witnesses on the ground say brown was not attacked, was not attacking the officer. we want to discuss this all and so much more with mark o'meara, cnn analyst and criminal attorney, also jeffrey toobin, cnn senior analyst as well. gentlemen, there's so much for us to wade through and i'll ask for your patience because there is really a lot. right off the bat, mark, we understand that the spokesman for the st. louis county prosecuting attorney says all of the evidence could go to a grand jury as early as tomorrow. does this seem like a reasonable time line? is this unusual? >> i think it's rushed. i think it's rushed for a bad reason. if i understood what he said correctly they're going to get this to the grand jury almost piecemeal.

as it comes in, they'll present it to the grand jury. i think that's the worst thing they can do. it will cause the grand jury the same problems it's causing the public, not to mention after the fact, if an indictment should issue, i or some criminal defense attorney will look at the case and go wait a minute, you did this so unusually that it may cause a problem. >> actually, i don't think that's necessarily the truth. there's a lot of evidence here. we're talking about the grand jury, which is a body that will consider the evidence in an organized way. there's a lot, they have to provide it a little bit at a time. they can't just throw it all in the grand jury, and i don't see anything wrong with proceeding expeditiously getting some evidence to them as it happens, so that the matter can be resolved. after full consideration of all the evidence, but not necessarily waiting until the end to put it in. >> the rush to justice i can understand and i think many of us could the need for that,

because of what is going on on the ground, and the scenes that we're seeing play out overnight. it does make one wonder if this is the best course of action for getting to justice for the family, because that's the key here right now. i think the community wants one thing, but the family certainly needs some answers. >> the family deserves answers and i'm hoping and it seems to be the case that they are involving the family and their representatives in the information. i hope that the family, for example, knew the cop's name a lot before the rest of us did. there's no reason not to. they have to be involved. my concern is this sort of rush to judgment, there's a lot of issues to address, a lot of principles to address, if we rush through it, you'll have more critics about the way it was done. >> can i play the sound from the radio interview, radio america, the dana show, a woman named josie calls in to share the officer, darren wilson's, version of events. let's listen to it real quick.

>> michael takes off with his friend. they get to be about 35 feet away and darren, of course, protocol is to pursue, so he stands up and yells, freeze. michael and his friend turn around and michael starts taunting him. oh, what are you going to do about it? you know, you're not going to shoot me, and he said all of a sudden he just started to bum-rush him. he started come at him full speed and he just started shooting, and he just kept coming, so he really thinks he was on something because he kept coming. it was unbelievable, so he finally ended up, the time shot was in the forehead. >> to you, jeffrey, does this change how this all, the fact at the end of the day a teenager is dead? >> let's start with the fact this was at best a thirdhand account. >> sure. >> josie spoke to the girlfriend of the officer, so i mean,

whether this is an accurate version of what he says, you know, is very much an open question. it is suggestive of an account that is helpful to the officer, but it raises a lot of questions, too. i mean, just cause someone is running at you, doesn't mean you shoot him six times. >> that's the question, is it reasonable. >> you have to know a lot more about the scientific evidence, how far away he was when the shots were fired. i mean, yes, it is suggestive of a defense, but the scientific evidence may refute it as well. >> and police have confirmed that that is the account that dar rep. wilson has given overall, mark, a lot, if you step away, i'm not a legal mind and not an investigator, to some, this is looking like an investigation that is at best botched. agree or disagree and jeff, i want your reaction. >> if i was a prosecutor i'd come out and say this is my investigation, hands off. if a cop says something about this investigation i'll have him fired. take control of the investigation, give the public a persona to look at and say i'm in charge of my investigation,

we will do it right, we'll take the time we have to take and the result is going to be fair and just, when we get to it, but i'm not going to rush. >> someone has to be in charge. i'm not prepared to say it's botched yet. let's let them assemble all the evidence, reach a resolution, and then decide whether they're right or wrong. i think there are two very different things going on here, the investigation, i don't know whether it will be a success or failure and i don't know what success or failure is. the crowd control efforts are an entirely separate issue >> entirely separate issue. >> that has been a total failure. >> that needs to be brought under control. calm needs to come to ferguson. mark o'meara, jeffrey toobin thank you for bringing your legal minds here. short break here, on "new day," ahead much more on the ongoing unrest in ferguson. we're going to speak with a woman who knows the very pain that michael brown's parents are feeling, the mother of trayvon martin. joins us live. she has her words for the slain teen's family.

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we're live in ferguson, missouri, where once again, missouri, where once again, protesters and police collide. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com police claim they were fired on repeatedly. two people shot by civilians. dozens arrested. the national guard called in, but unable to stop the mayhem. >> here they come. >> reporter: peaceful protesters you nighting, trying to stop the violence, as their community is in crisis. plus, new details into the investigation over michael brown's death, a private autopsy revealing the unarmed teenager was shot six times, fueling the community's outrage. also, a friend of the police officer involved offers a different perspective of what could have happened. >> as he stands up, minele just bum-rushes him, shoves him back into his car. >> reporter: attorney general eric holder heads to ferguson to

look into the investigation, as president obama asks for calm. >> giving in to that anger only will raise tensions and stir chaos. >> your "new day" continues right now. we are live in ferguson, missouri. there is breaking news and i wish it were better news, hints of order were not enough to bring this community over the hump, forcing police to deal with yet another night of violence. the question is, what can be done during the day, kate, to make tonight better than last night? >> that's a key question, because every night seems to bring another round of violence and it seems to only be getting worse. this all comes as more details are starting to emerge about the investigation, that includes officer darren wilson's side of the story. we're going to have more on his perspective, much more on that, but for now let's get back to missouri and chris. >> because we do have these two

parts here, right? we have the specific investigation into what happened with the shooting of michael brown, and these bigger issues that have taken on a life of their own here in the streets of ferguson. last night, we saw it again, it started out the right way, there were protests, demonstrators, but then it went from calm to bad to worse, this despite the efforts of a drained police force to be frank, 31 people arrested. there were two people hit by gunfire last night, did not involve the police, that was among the demonstrators. police fired tear gas and used stun grenades to try to disperse the crowd after cops said they were targeted with rocks, bottles and molotov cocktails. george howell was on the streets last night and monitoring police activity this morning. george, what do we see? >> good morning to you, chris. really it comes down to crowd control, police finding the right strategy to control the crowds. fair to say it's not working

quite yet and the agitators, the people inside the crowd of peaceful protesters who just came to pick a fight. we see that more and more. the other night police lifted the curfew, tried a different strategy but they seem to get the same results. >> these are just stun grenades. >> reporter: chaos on the streets of ferguson yet again. in what was one of the most tense nights yet, police say some protesters provoked violence, throwing molotov cocktails, starting at least two fires, even firing upon police. >> i stood there and listened over the radio and heard the screams of those officers who were under gunfire. i went back to your s.w.a.t. vehicle and saw a gentleman laying in the back who had been shot. >> reporter: officers responding with stun grenades, and tear gas. two people shot, civilians shot by civilians, police say, both expected to survive. cnn cameras caught one protester appearing to ignite a building,

flames filling up inside. police say it was a small number of agitators who incited the violence, and their response. >> bottles were thrown from the middle and the back of a large crowd. these criminal acts came from a tiny minority of law breakers. >> reporter: our own crews forced to take precautions. >> there's tear gas in the area here and some people are being overcome, our crew is being overcome. ferguson residents coming to the aid of this freelance photographer, overcome by the smoke. the night had started peacefully and remained that way until around 11:00 p.m. local, even in the face of heavy police presence. >> i want you to look at what is going on in ferguson, missouri, in downtown america, okay? these are armed police. >> reporter: but the peaceful protesters unable to stop a small number of troublemakers.

community leaders even forming a human chain, walking hand in hand, to block out the agitato agitators. >> it's to my understanding is that one through a water bottle and it ignited the police. it ignited them, they started acting like we were regular -- at the end of this, we're going to be classed as insurgents. nobody is out here for war. >> night after night after night, we see these things happen, basically when one person throws a rock, that really just sparks the trigger for what we see as police response. we know overall 31 people were arrested. we know two people were shot, two fires were set last night. >> george, the question becomes, is this just boiling over of the community or is this an opportunistic instigation in taking control of the situation, making it worse for some groups' own purposes? george, thanks for the reporting. let's bring in darrel parks, the attorney for michael brown's

family, and he is representing them, and also, though -- good to have you, counsel. >> thank you. >> -- a witness to these events. big angle developing in the story the police last night, yeah, they did come out heavy and strong, they're hoping it's an intimidation tactic to keep people in check. what are you hearing and seeing and think about the idea there is an element not just angry locals, they are from out of town, they are here, they are baiting people, and they are using the opportunity to piss off the cops and create trouble. >> well, you know, it's funny, you said that. last time i was on the set with don lemon and i saw the peaceful protesters, chanting, walking, obeying the officers to keep walking and you saw the mood change between 10:00 and 11:00 eastern, which was 9:00, 10:00 central, you saw the mood totally change. you saw the element start to come into the mix, so it's very clear and very true. i witnessed it myself last night. >> i'll tell you, we've could

have had a lot of these situations. it is unusual that there's pushback against the police and it's not owned by the protesters. very often they'll say yeah, we're coming at them. look how they're dressed, what they do to us. everybody's saying the same thing it's not us. there's a group here from the outside, they're coming in, out of towners, so that's something we have to continue to develop. specifically to the family, the investigation is starting to move in two major ways, one it's being driven by you, the other is being driven by friends of the officer. let's start with the officer's account, a friend who spoke to his girlfriend comes out, does a radio interview, the st. louis dispatch says they have as many as a dozen people who corroborate his story. what does the family make in his story which is in short version michael brown was an aggressor, when addressed by the police, an aggressor at the car, ran away when the firearm discharged, was told to stop and then after he stopped, charged him again and drew the fire. what do you make of it?

>> here's the problem with that, right. number one, we have to tell our version of the story for this reason. we have a chief who leaks information he leaked about michael, number two when you have an investigation going on by the state and you have sources within that investigation leaking information or corroborating a story, compare that to with the federal investigation. i've said in several meetings with the fbi representing that family, they will not tell you a scintilla of information regarding what they're doing, how they're doing it. they won't support, deny or confirm anything that's going on. that state investigation should be the same way. they should not be leaking or supporting information of anyone. that's an improper investigation. that's why we should be concerned. >> you have high ground, leaks are bad. the media doesn't like to say that because we need the leaks. if you don't like leaks, don't leak. you put out private autopsy you drive the same speculation. >> i'm a private civil lawyer. i hired an expert. that report you saw we asked that interprexpert we want to se

the bullets interact with the body. when you see the full anatomical chart you see more that happened within the autopsy that would be on the anatomical chart. >> it's inciting stuff, though. here, i'm not here to argue with you about the autopsy. you have to conduct your side of business the way you want to, but when you have baden and the other guy look at it but don't look at the clothes and don't know about powder burns, they can't determine trajectory but the information is out there in the square, getting people more heated up but that's a tactic for you to decide. do you think the federal involvement, a.g. holder coming here, unusual himself, do you think the federal involvement, the president talking, taking this investigation for themselves, helps? >> yes, it does. what it does, it gives the american public more confidence in the investigation. we now have seen the locals compromise the investigation on at least two occasions, right. i think having the federal government there and the great resources the department of justice gives greater credibility. >> all right, so you have what's

going on between you and the state, now you have the federal hopefully to marshal that. let's deal with what is coming out from the officer's side. does the family accept on any level what they're hearing is his truth about why he had to fire? >> no, i think, in all true respects, you have to take everything in its totality. i think when you listen to the witnesses, plus what we have, you so he that michael was trying to surrender to the officer, and remember now, where he was shot is at the crown of his head. this kid's head is all the way down. michael is 6'4", so for him to have a bullet at the crown of his head means that his head had to be down and he was surrendering. >> you know that other forensics say or he was charging. you know when you put the fact out there, you know people can look at it two ways. your own experts say they couldn't determine trajectory. >> i know for a fact that the first four that hit him, he was already hit and wounded. he may have been woounded when he left the car. he was already a wounded man.

it wasn't necessary to do a kill shot to the top of his head. it wasn't necessary and that kill shot went from back to front, so that charging concept, i don't totally buy in. he was already a wounded man and this guy decided to finish him off. that's what the witnesses said, we've seen that and heard that testimony >> what do you make about these witnesses supposedly coming forward to support the other side? >> they should go public, shouldn't come through a third party, which is not the proper thing to do. think about the eyewitnesses from canfield who have come forward. they came and faced the public and said it. we should never ever accept second and third party information when we have our witnesses. >> and obviously, look, the last thing any of us want to do is do the blame game. we don't know if any of this was justified, we don't know why the robbery information if that has anything to do with the shooting, if the officer knew or didn't know. going forward, is the family going to be content to let the process play out or are we going to see more of this, hey, the state said this, well here's what we say.

you're criticizing a cycle that you're also continuing. >> let me be careful. there are a few things in the investigation that should take a lot of time, one of those is toxicology. >> yes. >> the rest of the stuff there's no reason. they think it's going to take a long time they should explain in detail why it takes a long time. does not take a long time to find the witness, sit on that witness and get their version. if they say they need more time, why in detail do you need more time? we will not accept just a blanket statement ta i need more time. quite often law enforcement hides mind that. we see it all the time in america. >> delay as a distraction. >> right, delay as distraction. the public demands we should get answers sooner than later and they should not be able to professionally sit back, relax and do it in their own time. >> do you believe it's unfair there have been no arrests or is that a nod to the idea there is process, you do want to do it right t will take time? >> remember now, one reason you see some outrage from the african-american community in black america, folks get arrested every day on a scintilla of evidence, chris,

and so we need not lose sight of that, that there are many people in many communities every day, who get arrested on suspicion. so that's the america that we live in. >> you think he should have been arrested already? >> yes, sir. >> and a grand jury is looking at it and do you expect an indictment? is that a minimum standard? >> i this i this grand jury should, at a minimum find probable cause to let the charges move forward, because remember, grand jury is only hearing a small amount of evidence and they do it in private. we believe that the grand jury should come out with i afinding and they should charge him and we should move forward with a trial in this case. >> and to be very clear, once again, i know you say it every time but the message is more necessary this morning, perhaps than ever, the family in no way wants to see what we saw last night, right? it does not help their cause. >> it hurts them to see that and it hurts michael's legacy. >> counsel thank you for being here. we'll be talking to you going forward, that's why we're here to make sure the story gets out. michaela, back to you in new york. there's other news as well. >> we want to make sure folks

are up to date on the headlines. the u.n. is set to begin air lifting aid to northern iraq tomorrow, and they'll deliver aid to kurdish areas by sea. kurdish and iraqi forces have retaken control of iraq's largest dam from isis militants with some help from u.s. strikes. pope francis joining the call for this to change. he says the militant attacks on religious minorities need to stop but he said the international community should decide collectively how to intervene. >> israel and hamas agreed to extend their cease-fire another 24 hours. it is set to end midnight local time, and allows more time for negotiators in cairo to hammer out a long-term peace plan. palestinian officials say there hasn't been any progress on reaching an agreement. israel wants guarantees hamas and other factions in gaza would disarm but palestinians are calling for an end to the israeli blockades of gaza without preconditions.

president obama says the u.s. will make sure syria destroys its chemical weapons production facilities, now that the weapons themselves have been taken care of. the last stockpile was destroyed by a u.s. navy ship. the faa issued a no fly zone over syria for u.s. carriers as the civil war in syria rages on. the legendary voice of "saturday night live" has died. >> it's "saturday night live"! >> that voice started my saturday nights, when i can stay awake. dan pardo passed away peacefully at his arizona home, he was the voice of "snl" since its premiere back in 1975, only missing one season. he began his career at nbc radio in 1940. he was one you have the first to bring word of jfk's assassination to the nation. and he is the only announcer with a place in the academy of televisions arts and sciences hall of fame. don pardo was 96 years old.

what i love about this story is that apparently in the early days on thursdays, he would commute to manhattan to do the announcement, but as technology improved, he could do it at home. i always imagine him maybe in his pajamas doing that won daefl announc i wonderful announcing. >> everyone knows that voice. >> yes. >> good, long life. coming up next on "new day," many of the protesters in ferguson say outsiders are the ones causing the violence on a nightly basis. we're going to be live with a former leader of the new black panthers, who is being credited with trying to keep the peace. we're also going to be joined today by the mother of trayvon martin. sbr she wrote an emotional letter to michael brown's family. she'll share part of it when she joins us live. us" our accounting firm's mobile plan. and "minus" our expenses. perfect timing. we're offering our best-ever pricing on mobile plans for business. run the numbers on that. well, unlimited talk and text, and ten gigs of data for the five of you would be...

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back up now! back up now! now! >> back up! >> breaking news in ferguson, missouri. you're seeing it right on your screen, more turmoil stemming from the police shooting of michael brown. peaceful demonstrations last night certainly happened. however, they also turned into violence in the later hours. much of that violence is being attributed to outsiders. this is a developing theme for you to keep in your mind, there may be people who aren't even from this community who are here looking to are an opportunity to make trouble. now the question is, who is going to push back?

who will help this community make peace with the situation? one man who is trying, his name malik shabazz, national president and founder of black lawyers for justice. he was at a protest last night, doing it every night and increasing his role. unfortunately last night started out the right way, mr. shabazz, ended the wrong way, tear gas, stun grenades, you shouting for calm. the question is why are you even needed in this situation? where is this vacuum of leadership coming from? >> well i'm a lawyer. i fight police cases but i'm here as a man and as a father figure in the community. i'm here because i'm needed and i need others. i need men in this community and from around the country to step in and fill the gap. these young men here are not just upset about michael brown. these young men have no fathers. these young men there's a social decay here. there's a police brutality issue around the country. eric garner in new york, i fight police cases around the country.

it's a big problem, and so now we need some men and those that will come in with some authority and that will help, if we're going to try to bring some of our resolution to this situation, because there are a lot of problems here in this area also. >> and you've been referring, you need more people at the head of pat raid, you need local leaders and elected officials and you say that these troublemakers, these instigators that are baiting the police, you believe many of them aren't from ferguson. you're saying if it the problem's coming from outside ferguson, the solution should as well. you want to see more national attention. >> well, it's a mix. they're outside infiltrators and also a problem here. you see, there is a problem with the racial hierarchy here, where there's all white police force, there is again black youth who are hopeless, in despair. some of them really don't care. we have mixed the outside infiltrators with the youth on the street at 1:00, when all the peaceful demonstrators have gone, and they want to remain

out there, where are their fathers? where are their parents? where are the men here in this town, and so there's hopelessness, despair, a lack of black men who will step in to fill the gap. this is a real problem, that it starts with michael brown but it goes well beyond it. >> men, women, you know, people of conscience and character, to come out and help certainly needed, because it can't just be a standoff every night. let me ask you, as troubling as it was to see the tear gas and all the things that make television so tantalizing, do you believe last night was a little bit better than nights before, true? >> it certainly was, because the number of persons that engaged, that got tear gassed was much smaller and you know, we were able to work last night to make sure it was better than the night before. i do think that the arrest of darren wilson would bring some resolution to the situation. iffer's crying no justice, no peace, they would like to see some justice. >> but justice is, you're an

attorney you know this, justice is fairness under law. if they don't know exactly what happened in this situation yet, you do a quick arrest. >> how long does it take to establish probable cause. probable cause don't take this long. >> probable cause is a low standard legally no question about it. >> doesn't take long to establish it for us. why duoes it take so long for him. >> if you do not like what is done to your community, it's unfair, too quick, why would you want that same standard applied to the officer? >> i'm not saying that it's too fast here. i think there is enough evidence clearly for probable cause to have the arrest. he'll be out on bail, and then if he's freed because he has a defense, which i don't think so, but if he is, what's the big harm? i think right now you have a situation where it appears that he might not be charged at all. there might not be any justice at all, and then the evidence

that's coming out from the state and the battle between the attorneys, it's leaving people in the air with the sense that nothing might be done. >> if you were reping the officer or the police union, whoever is going to defend him and your version of events is this guy was heated up, he came at him in the car and when he was told to turn around and stop he then rushed him and he had to shoot, would you be saying yeah, arrest him and we'll take it from there? >> of course, if i was his attorney, which i'm not, of course i wouldn't. then he'd be free and you prepare your defense and get ready for trial. obviously we have a quagmire here, and again, it's not just this case. this has been going on 20, 30 years in our community, and now it's just exploded, it's the tip of the iceberg, so it's not just mike brown. it's all the other mike browns that have come before this mike brown that have people enraged. mixed with the despair and the hopelessness and lack of justice for our youth. >> now today during the day there's important work to be done, right? you can't just leave it to what happens at night. we all know the expression,

nothing good happens the later it gets in the day. >> true. >> are you going to try to get more community leaders together to join you at the head of the parade? >> of course, i've been begging the nation of islam, i've been begging the black church leaders here, and they've tried, but we have to do better. so we will be spending the day trying to get the community and those who need to come here from out of town to help fill the gap, because the few of us who are out there fighting to prevent these demonstrations from going negative, and the outside infiltrators taking over from the good intentions and aspirations of those who are legitimately outraged, it's a bad message at this point. >> work has to be done during the day to help the police weed out the infiltrators. >> it's time for to us stand up. >> mr. shabazz, good luck. >> thank you, sir. >>et's hope tonight is better than last. >> i appreciate you are, we'll see what happens. >> we'll be there, too. coming up on "new day," clues from the autopsy of michael brown, a forensic

pathologist is going to tell you what he can learn about the shooting from the findings. also, someone who knows the pain felt by michael brown's parents, trayvon martin's mother, writes a heartfelt letter to the family of michael brown. she speaks to us live next. in new york state, we're changing the way we do business, with startup ny. we've created tax free zones throughout the state. and startup ny companies will be investing hundreds of millions of dollars in jobs and infrastructure. thanks to startup ny, businesses can operate tax free for 10 years. no property tax. no business tax. and no sales tax. which means more growth for your business, and more jobs. it's not just business as usual. see how new york can help your business grow, at startup.ny.gov can you fix it, dad? yeah, i can fix that.

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welcome back. we're following another night of violent protests in ferguson, missouri. this time this came after the release of a private autopsy commissioned by michael brown's parents. the result of that autopsy show that the unarmed teenager was shot at least six times, twice in the head, four times in the right arm. that report suggests that brown was likely shot from the front. this is what is known but what does it reveal about what happened between michael brown and officer darren wilson? let's talk about that with forensic scientist lawrence kobilinsky. thank you so much. >> pleasure. >> this is what we know from that one private autopsy, what do you think is most important in what we don't know, in trying

to understand what happened that day? >> there's a lot that we don't know. with respect to the autopsy, we know there were six shots fired, but we do not know the six shots that hit michael brown, we don't know how many shots were actually fired. to know that, you'd have to know how many shell casings were recovered, how many rounds were in the magazine. how many shots were fired, was there a warning shot? we just don't know that information. also, we know that there were only three bullets recovered from the body. where are the other bullets? perhaps the police have those. so there's a lot of questions about that. in terms of the autopsy, we have learned not only that there were six shots that entered the body, but we also know about a little something about trajectories, and we suspect strongly the last two shots were to the head, and clearly, you know, what medical examiners do is determine entry and exit points.

also, bullets sometimes will enter, hit a hard object, bounce around. so sometimes there is one entrance and sometimes an exit and then a further entrance. all that taken into account, it looks like there were six shots fired, and four to the right side of the body, to the right arm. it seems to indicate that the shots were fired to the front of michael brown. >> it seems to indicate. why is that important to have that caveat in. >> there are no clear answers. unlike the torso which is kind of fixed in one position, you have an arm which could be held upright with a defense wound, you could have the hand in this position and not held up but down >> but this is not forever unknowable, with the rest of

analysis you can figure it out. >> that's right, you need to put the whole picture together. there's a lot we don't know. there's gunshot residue on the clothing of michael brown that will help determine distances between the muzzle and michael brown. the vehicle itself, there is -- >> the suggestion the struggle inside the vehicle. >> in the car and most importantly, which we're not hearing about, is dna on the gun. if in fact michael brown touched that gun, transferred his dna, a dna analysis, using high sensitivity testing, should reveal both sources, both the police officer and michael brown. >> that's a very interesting point, doctor. on these autopsies, it's an unusual situation they're face, showing how high profile this case is, the fact there are three separate autopsies taking place, what do you get from three different autopsies? while unusual, is it helpful? >> well, you may get the same result three times. pathologists can reach different conclusions. it has certainly happened. i think the issue about the

third autopsy by the feds is that it's a matter of credibility. the people want some information, outside of the state, and outside of a private examiner. they want to hear it from the federal government, and that's what this is all about. >> obviously i don't know this, does the analysis deteriorate the more autopsies that are done? >> i would think so absolutely. every time an autopsy is done, there is a dissection of the body, organs are removed. >> as painful as it is to hear that's exactly what it is. >> it's never going to be the same after the first time. >> that's very, very interesting. so you have differing accounts coming out now. right, you have eyewitnesses and you have this account, the officer's account that's just starting, we're just starting to learn more about. can an autopsy, what we have so far, rule in or out one of these accounts? >> the answer is no, but taken together with all the evidence, the other forensic evidence, perhaps we will better understand what happened during that shooting.

>> from zero to complete, if that's even a scale, if you will. >> sure. >> how far along are we? >> you're about 20%. we haven't heard the bulk of the case yet and it's going to take time. this investigation has to be done correctly, because the protests are now acpieinger's attention, it's very important, people are frustrated but to me, what's really critical is if you want justice, you got to do the investigation properly. it takes time. you got to wait until it all comes together and then perhaps a jury will decide. >> dr. lawrence kobilinsky, thank you very much for your time. >> sure. >> it shows us how much we know, what we know is interesting but what we don't know is just as important and as interesting. thank you so much. >> sure. coming up next on "new day," perhaps no one knows better what michael brown's family is going through than trayvon martin's mother. she's written an open letter to brown's family and joining us next to discuss this shooting and the aftermath to give her thoughts. [ female announcer ] birdhouse plans. nacho pans.

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glad you're back here with us on "new day." amid the chaos in ferguson, the parents of michael brown are receiving support from a woman who knows their pain all too well. she is the mother of trayvon martin. she is miss sybrina fulton and written an emotional and beautifully penned open letter to the brown family saying "i wish that all of the pain that i've endured could possibly ease some of yours but it won't. what i can do for you is what you have been doing for me, pray for you, then share my continuing journey as you begin yours." sybrina fulton cofounded the trayvon martin foundation after her son's death.

thank you so much for joining me and sharing more about this letter. i think the parallels are many between the case we're seeing now and the story of your son's death. teen agers, unarmed, young black men, both becoming the symbols of a larger national movement. it seems it would be a natural thing for to you pick up a pen and write to them, but you decided to do it as an open letter. why do that? >> one of the things is because a lot of the words i had to say to the family i don't think i would have been able to say at this time personally to them, and so i felt that it was best that i let people know that, not only my family but the trayvon martin foundation supports their family, and i thought it would just be best in order for me to write an open letter. >> if they reached out to you, would you meet with them?

>> absolutely, absolutely. we have been in contact with the parents, tracy and i have been in contact with the parents of. >> i'm so glad that's happened, because i think there is power in your voice, joining their process of grieving and all that they're going through. i actually want to talk about that because the grieving process for the family is just beginning. they haven't buried their son yet. they haven't laid him to rest. the investigation continues. the legal process is also just beginning. in your case, george zimmerman walked free. in michael brown's case, this officer involved is on paid administrative leave. that has to complicate the grieving process, no? >> absolutely, but i think before we even think about the investigation, i think first things first, they need to have a proper and decent home going

sr. for their son. i think we're getting off track with a lot of things but he needs to be buried and he needs to be laid to rest and that's going to be a very difficult moment in their life, and i don't want them to take that lightly. it's going to be very hurtful. it's going to be very sorrowful. it's going to be very disappointing to know that they're burying their 18-year-old son, and he had a full life ahead of him. >> where did you find your support during that particular difficulty, sybrina? >> as i said in my letter, i found my support through my faith, my family, and my friends, and i keep holding on to them because i know they've been there. they're still there, and that's all i have. all i have is my faith. >> you also say in the letter, you write this really interesting phrase, i'd like for to you explain more about what you mean. you say "if they refuse to hear us, we will make them feel us." >> one of the things that i also

said right below that is that people are going to take that out of content, and i no know t will, because they think it's something negative when it's not. the reason why i think that they should, that they don't quite understand what's going on is because it's not happening to them, but i think once we start voting more and we start electing some of the officials that's in the capacity to try to help us out with our issues, we'll be in a lot better position. i think once we start educating ourselves and once we start getting good jobs and we stop shopping at the places that don't support us, they will really feel us, and that's what i meant by that. >> you know, it's interesting, you had to live out this very real horror in your life on a national and international scale. we're seeing this again for the family of michael brown, and part of that, there is this charge of character

assassination, michael brown's family saying police were engaging in that. how do you deal with that as a mother and especially in igt love the fact you're defending your son who no longer has a voice? >> i think it's necessary, because my son doesn't have a voice, i have to be the voice for him, and i just refuse to listen to all the negative things that people have said about him and that they will say, they even take shots at me and say that i'm not a good parent, but i did the best i could, and i still think he would have been followed. he would have been chased. he would have been pursued, and he would have been murdered, because it wasn't about trayvon. it's about the person who pulled the trigger. trayvon was 17 years old. trayvon had a 17-year-old mind, so that's what i tell people all the time. i'm not going to justify his actions for being on the phone, for walking home, for even

having on a hoodie. i'm not going to justify that within a 17-year-old child. >> powerful words, sybrina. we've all been watching and very disheartened by the scenes we're seen playing on the streets overnight in ferguson, it's hard to see the community struggling with anger and grief and seemingly under siege. what do you think it's going to take to restore calm to that community? >> i think by seeing all of the militant, all the trucks and the guns and all of that, i don't think that's doing any good for that community because it frightens people. they have a right to protest, if they're doing it in a peaceful manner. i think that our leaders need to get together, our community leaders need to get together and they need to set up something so that it's more organized, and they need to meet with law enforcement, so law enforcement

knows what's going on, and they have a specific location. they shouldn't have them just walking up and down the street. they want to have them in an environment where they feel comfortable and they don't feel threatened by having guns and teargas and things like that being thrown at them. i think that it needs to be organized, whether it's the national action network, the naacp, or the urban league, or just community leaders or pastors in their area, but they definitely need to organize and let the people know their plan of action. >> or maybe all of those groups in coalition working together in a coordinated fashion would be even more powerful. sybrina fulton, the interest of of interest foundation continues to do great work. we didn't want to add fuel to the flames but knew you could bring sadly a unique perspective to this situation, and to what michael brown's family is going through. thank you so much for your time.

>> thank you for having me. >> we'll take a short break here on "new day." ahead, we talk about the scene in ferguson, dozens of people hit with tear gas overnight, among them a photographer covering all of this. we're going to hear from him next. ♪

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help keep teeth clean and breath fresh. with beneful healthy smile snacks. with soft meaty centers and teeth cleaning texture,it's dental that tastes so good. beneful healthy smile food and snacks. but parallel parking isn't one you do a lof them.ings great. you're either too far from the curb. or too close to other cars... it's just a matter of time until you rip some guy's bumper off. so, here are your choices: take the bus. or get liberty mutual insurance. for drivers with accident forgiveness, liberty mutual won't raise your rates due to your first accident. see car insurance in a whole new light. call liberty mutual insurance. welcome back to "new day." breaking in missouri, another night that just turned violent that started out of a peaceful

protest. you're looking at the response here in ferguson by police. they had to use tear gas they say because they were being fired upon and demonstrators would not pay attention to the instruction to move back. but others have paid a price as well, not just these instigators who are looking for trouble. >> are you all right man? >> freelance photographer leo from new york, looking at him with jake tapper, a tear gas canister exploded above him, they wound up pouring milk on his eyes as he described what sounded terrible the effects of the tear gas to a cnn crew trying to help him with others. earlier we spoke with leo on "new day" about what he experienced. here's what he had to say. you've been in the military. you know what it's like to go through the chamber when they expose to you tear gas to get you ready. nothing like last night, though? >> no, it seemed a little worse, i think it's because you weren't expecting it and then all of a sudden ayou're in pain and can'

breathe and snot and tears coming down your face. it's part of the job but you don't expect it to happen especially when you're media and i saw, you know, before i got hit with it, i saw them purposely shoot tear gas canister to the media section, maybe not on purpose, but i was a little shocked and then hit me. >> what do you think was going on that set all this off? >> it was just people put cones in the road, you know, maybe these people are instigators or maybe they're just tired of being treated this way, i don't know why, but the police made it clear for about 30 minutes to get out of the road and then they put cones in the road and it's just like all hell broke loose. >> the event, the flashpoint, we're hearing maybe it was molotov cocktail, maybe it was water bottle. do you see anything at all? >> i saw water bottle and i kind of want to clear up the molotov cocktail, because i've been out here for five nights now, and i have yet to see one yet, that

word is thrown around a lot, so i'm not sure if there are but i know for sure i saw water bottles. >> this idea of agitators in the crowds, that is a growing theme here about why they're unable to get this community under control. when i say they, i mean the community, because the leaders came out, malik shabazz and others were saying we can control this. what are you seeing? do you see an insurgent group there? >> yes, i was hiding with a few people last night, and they were telling me that people were coming from chicago, coming from california, west virginia, and they're like, it's not us doing that. there probably are a few but they're saying mostly the people are coming here to steal from their stores, just to take advantage of the situation. >> what do they say they want, the real people from ferguson, because again we're dealing with a very small community here. >> um-hum. >> what do they want right now and what is their reaction to the police and security? >> they definitely want justice for what happened, you know. they're getting this treatment for holding signs and protesting, but the guy that

shot somebody and murdered somebody at point blank range or in the back, however it will come out, he's, you know, in a house somewhere, you know, on paid leave or -- >> the officer you're talking about, shot versus murdered is a very big distinction, that is what the investigation is all about. do you get the sense people are following that investigation or do you think it's simple frustration right now, not so much information-driven but emotional? >> i think it's a mix of both. i think they're holding on to every word that leads, you know, closer to a decision of what he did, and so it's tough to say are you seeing emotion, are you seeing frustration. at the end of the day they just want justice and i think that's the leading feeling, because they've been going through this for years, and you know, racism is terrible, and it's sad to say in 2014, it's still here in ferguson. >> leo is an example of what happened last night. he's also a window into the complexity of this situation. you heard from his time spent with people here, he immediately

defaults to thinking that this is a murder, that they're angry about. we don't know what happened yet. the facts are very sparse and they're all over the place and you now have lawyers for one side going against the state officials, and local officials on the other side, trying to make sense of what happened. we don't know. we're going to have to wait. and for those wondering how such a small place like ferguson is able to have such a big situation in terms of these protests, it's because the issues go far beyond the shooting of michael brown. there are a lot of issues of race and justice at play here. the question is how will they cycle out? that's what we're going to keep asking as we look forward to hopefully a peaceful night tonight. coming up on the show, much more on the demonstrations in ferguson, how they got out of control, and what will come next in the investigation to try to shed some light and move us toward justice? way to "plus" our accounting firm's mobile plan. and "minus" our expenses. perfect timing. we're offering our best-ever pricing on mobile plans for business. run the numbers on that. well, unlimited talk and text, and ten gigs of data for the five of you would be...

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-- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good morning, i'm carol costello. thank you for joining me. breaking news overnight in ferguson, missouri, the national guard moves in and tensions ratchet up. >> on the ground, on the ground. >> hands up. >> police in riot gear arrest at least 31 people, after another night of escalating violence. at least two people are shot in what p