weekend. >> yikes. jennifer gray, thank you so much. good to see you. and "smerconish" is coming at you next. thank you for starting your morning with us. i'll see you back here at 10:00 easte eastern. first off, the obama administration is considering taking the fight directly to isis militants in syria. the pentagon saying all options are on the table. that could include air strikes. house foreign affairs committee ed royce joins me. a grand jury will decide if the cop who killed michael brown should face charges, but protesters want the prosecutor out. i'll talk to paul ryan about his new book which matches the gop blueprint for success. i'm michael smerconish. let's get started. my first headline is from the boston herald.

obama faces tough factions in syria and iraq. cnn sources confirm that intelligence are gathering information for a possible strike. meantime, secretary hagel says the threat from isis is nothing like the u.s. has seen before. in the wake of the brutal murder of james foley, hagel and the joint chiefs of staff are looking at every option. congress member ed royce is joining me and doug oliphant me. isis will be defeated only when confronted in syria. do you, sir, support air strikes in syria? >> yes. we for some time have made the observation that the use of

armed drones on isis leadership in syria, the support for the free syrian army and i think strikes at this point, against the syrian isis which is bled into iraq. those steps should be taken and had they been taken some time ago, i think isis would not have as much influence on the ground as it has now. >> douglas, can we finiwin this battle with air strikes alone? i believe you need support on the ground to let the bombers know what they should be striking. >> you have to have a force on the ground. that doesn't mean you have to have an american force on the ground. we have some success using indigenous forces in conjunction with u.s. air power. we have that alliance with afghanistan or the libyan model. that did not turn out well politically in the end, the

immediate military result was favorable. we have an opportunity here to use u.s. air power in conjunction with local troops on the ground. iraqis, kurds and perhaps syrians and perhaps turks and iranians. >> congress member, are we about to partner with bashar al assad? i thought we were trying to take him down. >> no, as a matter of fact the free syrian army is opposed to assad. former secretary clinton and she and petraeus and paeneta had the same argument years ago that we made in our committee. we should be arming the free syrian army. it was the opposition to assad. it was clear that isis in a vacuum would move into that position. that's what we have seen happen. >> would you support troops on the ground? meaning american troops on the

ground? >> absolutely not. there is no support in the united states on either side of the aisle for introducing ground troops there. do we support the kurds or free syrian army in their effort to turn back isis? in doing that, we need to give them the heavy equipment such as anti-tank missiles that they need. that was communicated to us but three days ago by the kurdish foreign minister. >> congress member, as horrific as the execution of james foley, does it change the dynamic of the vital u.s. interests at stake in iraq and syria? and what is that vital interest for the u.s.? >> remember that a good chunk of the foreign fighters, maybe 40% of them are coming from europe or central area. there is a caliphate out there used by the jihadists to attract

those who want to caliphate their work. you can monitor taking the war back to europe or back to australia or back to central asia. some have commented upon taking the attack back to the united states here as well. you notice right now, france, czech republic and britain are doing the same thing. they are beginning to move in and arm kurdish forces on the ground. why? because it is very much in our interest to stop them there before they come back and take the fight or -- they are very good at bombing and creating explosive devices. we don't want to see that in london, paris or the united states. >> douglas ollivant, my concern is the answer. the times addresses this of whether they fall into the category of not good people, but not exporters of terror or are

they of the al qaeda stripe and pose a threat to the united states? i'm not being overly simplicity when i say my concern is if they establish a caliphate, say in indiana, not iraq. >> i don't think they want to establish a caliphate in indiana, but we have to worry about this in two senses. we have to be concerned about isis itself. the headquarters deciding it is in its interest to strike the united states. isis had a couple of good months. they are looking like the new big kid on the block. what stands between them and taking the trophy, so to speak, al qaeda has struck the homeland and isis has not. that is the fact that stands between them and being the undisputed greatest jihadist ever. we need to be concerned about that. second, we need to be concerned about the alumni. if isis itself doesn't see it

needs to strike the u.s. homeland returning americans or europeans with passports to breeze through customs, could decide on their own to form their own cells and strike against the homeland here without direction from isis central. >> chairman royce, to what extent does the congress need to advise and what is the reaction? >> i think the president will consult with congress. as you know, he has 60 days under the war powers act as commander in chief to carry out actions. when we return, congress will be involved directly on this debate quite immediately with the administration. in the meantime, myself and my ranking member elliot engel of new york will be in erbil. the most important aspect of

this is that this needs to be a dialogue between congress and the administration in terms of having a strategic plan forward in supporting the kurdish forces on the ground. that's the infantry that is right now advancing against isis and they need the support. >> chairman ed royce and doug ollivant, thank you. you remember the headline. what i would have written, key question, can isis be defeated from afar? the u.s. attempted a rescue, but not negotiate the release of american journalist james foley. other nations give in to terror demands. should we? get ready to crack, dunk, dip... it's crabfest at red lobster! the year's largest variety of crab! like new! crab lover's trio! or try new! jumbo lump crab over wood-grilled salmon. crabfest is now... but ends soon! so hurry in and sea food differently! you pay your auto insurance premium every month on the dot.

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death poses on hostage negotiation. as the u.s. weighs aim at isis inside syria. another hostage's life hangs in the balance. they brutally beheaded james foley. my next guest, christopher dickey is the editor for the daily beast. and chris voss is the with fbi. chris, is there blood on the hands of those paying ransoms in similar circumstances? >> thank you for having me on. first of all, i would like to say what happened with james foley was cowardly. james foley was an honorable man. what our western allies have done is helped create the problem.

this idea of ransom that they open the bank vaults to people and give them all the money they have has made it worse. it fed the problem. >> is this more about inspiring terror or a funding stream? the new york times reports $125 million in the last five or so years alone is put forth to isis because of the campaigns. >> terrorist organizations that get into kidnapping very soon come to learn that kidnapping can be a lucrative thing to do when entities and governments respond by dumping out truck loads of money on top of them. it starts out with terror, but it becomes a lucrative things to do. >> christopher dickey, i watched the video. i wish i could unwatch it. you wrote for the beast. you wrosaid? >> it is partly a recruiting

video. it is to say we are powerful and on the move and challenging the united states of america. for the kind of people who are inclined to identify with jihadist movements anyway, guys in their basements in london or here in new york city, that is the thing that makes them look big and powerful. it is very slick. high definition. before we go on about how great they are, let me say i was incredibly impressed by how composed jim foley was at the moment he was about to die and how brave he was although he was obviously mouthing the propaganda of the murderers. chris voss is exactly right. this is a very rich and slick organization. rich is very important. that's why they produce good videos. they are like a huge 21st century, very much of this moment propaganda machine. that may be their most important asset. >> chris, if a family were to

contact you, god forbid, we have a son or daughter who has been held captive. we need your expertise to win their release. how do you approach the dynamic? >> the most difficult situation is the one you don't know you are in. chris's point is recruiting videos. isis is doing this because they like the publicity. if there is good publicity for them, there is bad publicity. if they are exposed and shown to be cowardly criminals, which is what they are, then this is not a group that people want to join because they don't want to be part of a group that are a bunch of cowards. >> christopher dickey, are they necessarily supporters of terror? you heard my question to chairman royce. as badly as i feel for syrians and those in iraq, i'm most concerned about americans. might that follow us home? >> sure.

it is already following us home. the videos are watched in the brooklyn and bronx and watched in indiana. you were half joking when you asked chairman royce if these guys want to set up a caliphate in indiana. >> no, i was serious. >> some of these terrorists want to. it only takes a handful to carry out a terrorist act. especially if it is not supposed to be 9/11. if it is a question of walking into some place and mowing someone down with an automatic rifle, you can do that. that is what they are inspiring. >> christopher dickey and chris voss, thank you. you remember the real question on the hostage negotiation. what i would have written, it is time to negotiate with our allies. controversy over a st. louis prosecutor standing his ground refusing to step down over the michael brown shooting case. should he? more than 70,000 people think so.

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my next headline is from "the washington post" st. louis prosecutor insists he won't step aside. overnight in ferguson, streets were quiet over the shooting

death protests continued. many have signed petitions calling for prosecutor attorney robert mcculloch to be removed from the michael brown case. mcculloch says governor jay nixon must quote man up and remove him. maria nadal joins me. is your effort a practical effort as to why mcculloch should not be the prosecutor? >> i would say it is practical, michael. let me tell you why, when we are in a state of emergency such as right now, the governor, our governor nixon has full responsibility and accountability to make determinations. my constituents, while i have a friendship with bob mcculloch,

my constituents want mcculloch to be removed. his father was killed by an african-american. many of his family members were police officers. he has made it very easy for the governor to remove him from the situation. here is where he and i agree that if the community wants him to be removed, it is solely upon the governor, governor nixon, to do so. what many believe since i have been here since day one, they want the governor to stand up and say here is my responsibility and i'm going to execute this responsibility of having a special prosecuting attorney who does not have any biases. the political ramifications of this is the governor doesn't want accountability if there is not a conviction. that is where we stand today while bob mcculloch wants to remove himself, he cannot do so because it has implications of

the cases he has had in the past. >> i'm glad to hear you say it is a practical issue. i could not find any ethical justification for mcculloch to get out at this moment. i think what you are saying, senator, it will be a hard sell in the community if this is the man at the helm of the investigation and if there is not an indictment forthcoming from the grand jury. if it is a practical consideration, then i say, what about the fact that eric holder came to ferguson this week and shared experiences with some of the folks that he met with talking about having been stopped twice on the new jersey turnpike and how uncomfortable he felt as an african-american. where do we draw the line where one's life experiences are perceived to have biased your decision making? >> i have to tell you, you are absolutely correct in what you are saying. our experiences do bring biases

to every situation. the bias the community has right now, there is a disproportionate of african-americans who have been convicted by bob mcculloch. for that reason, they have a huge mistrust. to his credit, he wants to make sure that everything is as clear as possible. as clean as possible. having eric holder here, i have to tell you, has brought tremendous calm to this community. people are convinced there is going to be justice served at some level. whether it is a conviction or if we deal with civil rights that are violated on behalf of michael brown jr. while we have calm and while we have an african-american who serves as attorney general of the united states and though he has been on the ground here speaking to my constituents, he has told my constituents that a conviction may not happen. if that is the case, that is why our governor has to make a decision. it is not good enough for our

governor to say that he is not going to remove him because he is interested in his political future. this is solely on the governor. >> thank you for being here. we appreciate your time. remember the original headline, the st. louis prosecutor insists he won't step aside. i would have written, ethics don't demand recusial, but practicality does. officer darren wilson has vanished from sight, but should he have spoken out? paul ryan was the star of the 2012 gop convention, but now he is back with a book with a plan for his party's success. s o for the little mishaps you feel use neosporin to help you heal. it kills germs so you heal four days faster. neosporin. buy three johnson & johnson first aid products and get a free bag. buy three johnson & johnson first aid products probably eat something orll drink something that is acidic on a daily basis.

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next headline is from the springfield, missouri news leader. leaders say justice will heal. the nation's top cop attorney general eric holder stands with the people of ferguson, missouri for justice in the death of michael brown. the grand jury will decide if charges should be brought against officer darren wilson for shooting the unarmed 18-year-old. what happens if there is no indictment? hln legal analyst joey jackson is here in new york city and criminal defense attorney mark o'mara joins me from florida.

it is interesting, but frankly irrelevant details in the case. what is the narrow issue that is confronted by the grand jury? >> whether or not this officer was in reasonable fear of great bodily injury when he decided to use deadly force against michael brown. that sentence is the only thing that is really relevant in this case. >> what does reasonable mean in that circumstance? reason to us? reasonable to him? >> it is sort of a reasonable person's standard. it is an objective standard. it is not what is looked at in the light of day or looked at a videotape and crush it by every second. it is what the officer is going through or any person going through at the moment they decide to use that force. you have to look at that it happens in literally a second. his decision processing was shorter than that. if you want to look at what he was considering, if there was a

violent event at the car, that is relevant. when someone takes off and they are supposed to be apprehended, that is relevant. when there is two people and you divide your attention between two people. people argue that darian was out of the picture, but whether or not michael is running away and not turning around. all those micro decisions will impact if that officer in that moment's fear, if he had fear, was reasonable under the existing circumstances. >> joey, you heard the line a grand jury could indict a ham sandwich. does a prosecutor get in a circumstance like this what a prosecutor is looking for? >> here is the issue. what mark had to say, i agree. there is one more step. that is not only reasonable, but necessity. is it necessary? there is a lot of concern based on the grand jury presentation if the prosecutor should have went that way. why?

in the grand jury, the prosecution is the judge, the jury and executioner. having presented multiple grand jury cases, that case is seen in the lens of the prosecution. meaning, you can present and spin the case and put in the case to the grand jury, supporting anything as a prosecutor you would like to support. yes, all the evidence is presented. eyewitness evidence is presented to the grand jury. forensic evidence is presented. the autopsy evidence. all of that will be significant and important. but the issue becomes as to what you were talking about before. whether special prosecutor should be appointed or, if not, michael, whether or not -- i believe we have to have faith in the system. it is about public confidence. it is about ensuring integrity. if that is insured by having a person who is outside of the situation and not so close, having nothing at all do with the pile of tricks, make the community comfortable and get

the outcome. >> mark, should the special prosecutor be named? >> you know, i was on the fence. i first said that maybe in the political environment, we should bring someone in without bagg e baggage. i have been weighing in on this. the prosecutor here has been doing this for 24 years. if there is evidence that he is not qualified, and that has not coming to light, we have to understand this prosecutor can prosecute all blacks for 24 years and whites for 24 years, then i don't know we should say to him all of the 24 years is okay, but this is in the national spotlight, we cannot trust your ability. now i'm thinking -- >> isn't there a practical consideration that lawyers like you who represented african-americans prosecuted by this guy will then rush to the court house and say, hey, me

too? >> there is another way this could have been presented. by way of criminal complaint. what i say by that, when you level a criminal complaint as opposed to a grand jury, michael and mark, as you know, you have a preliminary hearing. grand jury proceedings are secret by necessity. you want to protect the integrity of the process. you make them secret. if you go after someone by criminal complaint, you are in the court of law. it is public. you present the evidence. everything you have. autopsy report and forensic. it is challenged in the light of day. that is a significant difference between what this prosecutor is doing and what would ensure public con ffidence and trust. >> final question. yes or no from mark. should a lawyer be speaking for the cop right now? >> i think so. absolutely. not about the facts of the case, but present the other side of the story. >> joey jackson and mark o'mara,

thank you. you remember the original headline. justice will heal? i would have written, key question now. what would a reasonable cop have done? congress member paul ryan says isis is a threat to u.s. security. he says the u.s. has to confront the terrorists where they are so they don't have to confront on american soil. the wisconsin republican sits down with me. you read the labels on the foods you eat - but do you know what's in your skincare? neutrogena naturals. a line of naturally derived skincare with carefully chosen, clinically proven ingredients and no harsh chemicals. healthy skin-starts from within. neutrogena naturals. so what we're looking for is a way to "plus" our accounting firm's mobile plan. and "minus" our expenses. perfect timing. we're offering our best-ever pricing on mobile plans for business. run the numbers on that. well, unlimited talk and text, and ten gigs of data for the five of you would be... one-seventy-five a month. good calculating kyle. good job kyle. you just made partner.

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my next headline comes from cbs news. romney/ryan stop in chicago and blast obama. congress member paul ryan skyrocketed in the spotlight in 2012. now, the republican from wisconsin has written a new book. it's title "the way forward renewing the american idea." ryan's blueprint for gop success. this week, we sat down after an event in philadelphia at the world affairs council and focused on several big stories in the headlines. i told him that the book rollout seems very much like a campaign. nine florida book stores in the span of two or three days. that doesn't sound like the conventional rollout of just any book. >> actually. it is. >> why not illinois or why not california? florida. the state when one is running for president? >> it is not iowa, new hampshire or south carolina. the point of this book is i'm

critical of the direction our country is going right now. i think we should be doing things differently. as a critic, i should put up different ideas. what's my alternative? what are my solutions? that is what people deserve in this country. if we as elected leaders don't like the direction we are going, we should put out alternatives. >> does the gop going forward, the mid term election or in 2016 need to change message or outreach or both? >> i think both. we have to show how our principles, the founding principles, when applied to the problems of the day can provide better solutions to help people with their problems in their lives. we have to pay people the respect of going to every corner of the country and listening to say we have better ideas to help with problems in their lives. >> do you share senator rand

paul's concerns over the military of police departments? >> let's respect the community and family and not take a political issue and attach it to this. i think this is an issue that needs to be reviewed. i think in some cases, you don't want to paint one broad brush. there are instances, surplus boats to lake michigan, that's fine. what's wrong with that? we need to look at the issue more closely so we don't have unintended consequences. >> you sitting in janesville, wisconsin and watching the boston marathon bombing and ferguson been alarmed to watch on television the level at which local police departments? >> changed a lot in my lifetime. >> a federal program to allow them through homeland security to take battle field equipment. >> a lot of police departments purchase it on their own as well. i would like to hear the side of

law enforcement and hear the justification before drawing conclusions. >> isis apparently did something horrific to an american journalist this week. does isis pose a threat? >> yes, it does. i call it al qaeda 3.0. organized and well funded trying to form a caliphate in two countries. this is a huge threat to us. we need to confront this threat there. >> is isis in the category of al qaeda as compared tot th the taliban? >> i believe that's the case. >> the mindset in the country. for a living, i like to say i answers telephones. i speak to people across the country on my radio show. to those folks, you would say what? >> i think if you read what isis writes, if you read the reports, you will find this is a very different issue. this is a very different group

that seeks to export terrorism, not simply to have a caliphate. look at what they just did to one of our journalists. we have to see this threat for what it is. we have to confront it. >> finally, if i ask about 2016, you're not telling me, are you? >> that's correct. you have to know me pretty well. >> could you beat her? >> i think we can beat her. you are talking about hillary clinton? i think she is very beatable. she is formidable, but beatable. >> that is congress member paul ryan and his new book. you remember the original headline? romney/ryan stop in chicago and blast obama. i would have written, ryan book is campaign and manifesto. officer darren wilson has

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so all hour, we have been addressing the stories. the unrest in ferguson and in syria. they have something in common.

the role social media played if both. in ferguson, we watched darren wilson virtually disappear online in an age where privacy has all but vanished. and then the campaign isis is sending out messages and gain followers has terrorists and world leaders take notice. jonathan bernstein is the crisis manager in los angeles. he is author of "keeping the wolves at bay." he joins me now. from the crisis management standpoint, is silence serving the police officer in ferguson well? >> no, it's not, michael. you know, it is obviously a very tense situation. there's a lot of fear and anxiety on both sides of the issue. when you go undercover like that, leaving no message behind, spokesperson behind you, you are saying you are guilty. i understand fear of his life,

but failure to communicate is leaving people to come to conclusions of their own. >> but facebook likes and the funding online going gang busters. maybe there is something to be said for him saying nothing. >> i disagree. i think if anything, his supporters would probably be more supportive if they at least heard from him. he appreciates the support. he is cooperating with the investigation and when the time is right, he will say more. >> do you believe there's been a deliberate effort to remove all traces of him online? i find it remarkable thus far and i have been paying close attention, there is limited video and limstill shot and notg else. >> it is actually not surprising. i have been online for over 30 years. i'm a nerd on the subject. if he had a limited presence to start with, it is not that hard to disappear. if he had widespread social

media activity, it would be harder. i suspect he was mostly active on facebook and with the cooperation of friends, he was able to go down the rabbit hole. >> let's turn to isis. isis is sophisticated. my god, the video in the desert is high def. terrorists have come an long way from the black back it's a heart, it's a crisis communications public relations battle. i happen to have been involved in the u.s. military intelligence back in the original cold war, and back then, terrorists pretty much had to operate physically. the propaganda much more difficult to disseminate. now they can use these modern tools we all use to try to reach out to the people they want to join them, and it's really a battle for the hearts and minds of those people we need to be much more aggressively involved. >> and jonathan, sufficiently

skilled to know they shouldn't show the descapitation, and tak 20 seconds and respond to that. >> well, definitely. you know, there have been other beheadings committed where that restraint wasn't shown. somebody, very sophisticated in public relations is advising them, and that's very clear and we need the same level of sophistication at our end, and we don't have the it yet. >> to respond to them. a good point. jonathan bernstein, thank you for being here. ferguson, missouri, has become the epicenter of a racial divide in this nation. [ chanting ] >> wait a minute. before anyone jumps to conclusions about what happened in this case, there are some thoughts i'd like to share. [ julie ] the wrinkle cream graveyard. if it doesn't work fast...

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one last thing. michael brown was shot dead in ferguson, missouri, two weeks ago today. i'm sure you've been talking about the case with family and co-workers. i've been discussing this death not only here but also on my radio program and paid attention to the constant media. you know i love the yellow legal tax. this one i divided between what the public knows and what we don't. one side clearly outwapgs the other. here's what we know. we know 18-year-old mike brown was shot dead by a police officer. we know that the ferguson police chief has identified the officer as darren wilson. we know that brown was unarmed when he died. and we know that a videotape appears to have captured brown while involved in a strong-arm robbery of a convenience store just minutes prior.

the man who was with brown when he was shot, claims brown was attempting to surrender. but there's so much that we the public don't know. that video of the so-called strong-arm robbery seems to show two other store employees. well, what do they have to say? and what was said in any 911 calls about the robbery? and speaking of tape what do the police radio transmissions among the officers just before and after the shooting tell us? and then there's the shooting itself. sadly, we're never going to get mike brown's side of things. and at this stage, we still don't fully know the officer the account. darren wilson has already been questioned by investigators, but we don't know what he said. all we know is what a radio caller named josey told a st. louis radio station, but that's hearsay. we know of some eyewitness accounts, because of interviews that they've given to the media. but what about those who may have seen something relevant? but have avoided the public

spotlight? again, we don't know. then the forensics. we've been told about the results of a so-called private autopsy, but not the official autopsy nor the federal autopsy. dr. michael bodden did the private autopsy but didn't have access to brown's clothing or xais. so it was of limited value. the ballistics information yet another public mystery. my point is this -- there is so much we don't know. so why are so many committed to a particular outcome? this week a "new york times" cbs news poll found 9% of americans believe the shooting of michael brown was justified. 25% believe it was not justified. 64% don't know enough to say. i'm worried. about the 34% who believe they do know enough to come to a conclusion. among the 25% who believe the shooting was not justified, 57% of blacks. in other words, the 57% of african-americans have an opinion and believe the shooting

was not justified. and meanwhile, a support darren wilson facebook page has more than 61,000 likes. and as of 9:00 this morning, a go fund me campaign for the police officer the defense had raised more than $234,000. it's reached its goal and a second fund-raising campaign is now under way. the only thing anyone should sdi desire at this time is a full accounting of what occurred. instead, this case has become the racial equivalent of what we've grown accustomed to with the nation's partisan divide. people weigh in without the information needed to make a decision largely based on who their teammates are. here one man is dead and another's freedom may hang in the balance. so let's all pay attention by all means scrutinize the information as it comes to light and share our opinions as to the evidence, but all the while withholding final judgment. that's it for me. i'm off next weekend for labor

day holiday. i hope you are, too. i'll see you back here in two weeks. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com good morning. so grad to you have with us. i'm christi paul at cnn headquarters in atlanta. 10:00 here on the east coast and feeling a little empty without victor. victor blackwell, live for us in ferguson. >> yeah. good to see you, christi. it's 9:00 here in ferguson, missouri. hello, everyone. i'm victor blackwell. you're in the "cnn newsroom." we're going to check back in with victor in ferguson, missouri in a were you able of minutes but want to begin the hour way possible escalation of

a u.s. campaign against isis, gathering information on the location of the troops leaders in syria with an attempt of carrying out air strikes against them if that order is given. cnn's michelle pa zinsky is where the president is vacationing. any word, michelle, when that operation may take effect? >> reporter: christi, at this point, it's still just one possibility according to the white house. yesterday we talking with the president's deputy national security adviser agreed the murder of james foley is isis' first terror attack against the united states. he didn't state it in so many words, but essentially said, yes, the u.s. is considering air strikes in syria, but that would require consultation with congress. some legal justification, before doing so. today's assessment of the isis threat by the white house is serious. >> it's not simply the threat theye